Kefka Bin

This pastebin is in maintenance mode and will no longer receive updates.
Should anything happen to this pastebin use the doc: http://tinyurl.com/kefkadoc
Please see our sign off letter from the creators: https://tinyurl.com/kefkachangelog

----------

Mit Sheet: IKUYA MITTY
https://tinyurl.com/ikuyamittydmu

----------

Phase 1: 4/4 GI2 - Static Big Box
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1-E2rEKa586KKiVNvtt3EAMQY2YAEVBRGcMX0WzORIq8/edit?usp=sharing

----------

Phase 2: Kroxy Rinon Forsaken - Mid Trines

**Kroxy-Rinon (341 Melee Flex)**
https://raidplan.io/plan/UATE__aDcw1-bgVv

**Trines**
https://raidplan.io/plan/apkh6ytq72w8pt3v

----------

Phase 3: 8 Stack TLB Elements - D>S>A BH - Split Role Stompies

**Full Phase Doc:** (Shortcut to BH:https://tinyurl.com/DSAHoles)
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1w05ez7GscxTflgaMgVET42gjGryI2QSPR0zqRWXdWgI/edit?usp=sharing

*Alternative BH (Double Tether DSA): NOT PF Standard*
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1RN3RRM5aSVUSXaQ50ewCI8-efTOql3phprSjiSYyJAk/edit?slide=id.g3e5d74e9fd1_0_0#slide=id.g3e5d74e9fd1_0_0

----------

Phase 4: SELF MARK (If you need it)
https://raidplan.io/plan/ChcTBFAcFMZKFVKo

----------

Phase 5: Don't get farmed by exas....!!
https://raidplan.io/plan/3wODYtApXBtYAdu0

----------

Waymarks!
{"Name":"12y Waymarks","MapID":1094,"A":{"X":100.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":88.0,"ID":0,"Active":true},"B":{"X":112.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":100.0,"ID":1,"Active":true},"C":{"X":100.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":112.0,"ID":2,"Active":true},"D":{"X":88.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":100.0,"ID":3,"Active":true},"One":{"X":94.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":94.0,"ID":4,"Active":true},"Two":{"X":106.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":94.0,"ID":5,"Active":true},"Three":{"X":106.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":106.0,"ID":6,"Active":true},"Four":{"X":94.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":106.0,"ID":7,"Active":true}}

suggest for congaline to be H2H1T2T1 not H1H2T1T2
No
It is incredibly weird that it's like this. We have R2 on the edge but not H2? We have OT in the middle?
Ultimately, it doesn't matter, but it's not intuitive to the usual strats.
Perfectly intuitive if you just treat it like a normal party list
Because Sage has to dip back in to reshield after spread/stack, and before laser. If you have them go in to heal, then all the way to the wall (crossing over the other healer), it can cause a death.
play a better healer not sage.
This isn't about a "better" or "worse" healer. This is just as hard for Scholar, if not WORSE for Scholar.
This is just about the fact of ensuring an easier spot for the shield healers to shield for the mechanic(s) in general.
I am playing SGE and I offered to swap spots with my co-healer. Tbh, that GCD shield there is very unnecessary. Get who you can with it while you are at the wall. It is def much more important that everyone catches plenary/caress. Also, if this helps, there is a tech where you can get kera on mystery magic and on LoJ if you Kera early. For me, it is 2 GCD's after the second hit of the tank buster but you can also just kera at 5 sec on the pre-pull timer and then kera as soon as it is off CD (my way of making sure that my kera is 25 sec into the fight without needing to guess). That extra 10% makes getting people healthy for wave cannon much comfier. This timing also allows for an extra kera if you do it again as soon as it is off CD to catch Grav 1 and also catch DTT + LoJ.
... h2 IS on the edge. what is everyone talking about
Your suggestion is denied, Please play a better class.
this thread is so confusing because this literally IS the congaline
It's changed since the bin first came out, obviously. Check back every now and then - things are getting changed often.
Can the P1 raidplan show the 2nd set of position for the fire/ice spreads for Grave 1? It is causing issues for some people interpreting the 2nd set as mirrored movement versus if it should be left/right facing boss.
Slide 15-21 can the markers be put down for the arrows for where they are being placed?
https://pastebin.com/k2cbwgxq - pastebin by Mo Fu @Jenova with updated P1 strategies to solve Graven Image 2 and testing teleport arrows! please consider updating the P1 links
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1-E2rEKa586KKiVNvtt3EAMQY2YAEVBRGcMX0WzORIq8/preview?pru=AAABnq-MDJo*JCXCxmhUgnUckieX3DeHxw#slide=id.g3e761465523_0_147 (big box arrows)
Push to have partner forsaken. handles the flexing better and clearer than conga https://raidplan.io/plan/cKt22s4zMP50lDOV#4
modified tf also has theirs. first one had safe stacks. https://raidplan.io/plan/aZjFjQN2CVs3LxIH#3
Suggestion for the PPTX's Graven 3: If you use D as New North, your arrows point where you have to be if you have a mixed set. "Up / Right" treated as North / East would send you NE if D is new north. could help people with processing info. example https://ibb.co/mnNX3yd
This helped me immensely, thank you.
random stranger, I made a pastebin account just to thank you and say I hope your pillows are always cold.
Raidplan for how Poikos and Kindred have been doing arrows: https://raidplan.io/plan/7z6wke28yejrtzzu
4 little boxes instead of one big box, imo makes it easier to resolve the rest of the mechanic and doesn't need markers at all
share code for in game strategy board of this: [stgy:aqFi-R7OjRj6soZluMtY3vZLHWXT6wyFh9Xr5fSAQ-WuxyqVNryPg7+byy-6hyDutw35P8lqYudTBxg9dUgmy0rHNCywypPeUeN15lnHMPB6ywtYQ7Y5XEemcbuJmVkPq5+RKLmHZhcSeMGibvjvxfjyud7suaI8qtVmV0A4jvy1Rv29v++j-VThqbn9cBycPLzrXSKahIThJD96taimJoheo-vStNQjmjCvNUWamh--dgVHA+xFBmNT5GuwO06E3-MrWAV42HUmkO4G+UWXf+lnNX0howKdzIh2KHmjt-+-i9c4n9HZCvCnBNzzhfKyzZx2hj8WVdJwxs-0meqrouppH6Pn+eGE2ivT2EzC2MScnl5C1c3coCUrim7eJWDdbIFOVHD5fqbswYqUBYrNbgCLU1R-+BDUgLdoCu9QI3xUAvOkxIcl1C-2wwKvswFIzQ7qStvk5bjtByAPCYLfyt+LT9IIsrqe+IppEjWeh5-15cM2o59OHd]
https://raidplan.io/plan/UATE__aDcw1-bgVv
seems a better/easier P2 strat?
If you have the north and west arrows, you go north west. I'm not sure how much easier you want than that.
Please go back to Merry Go Round - check the google doc they have a cool resolution to the confusion sleep now - MERRY GO ROUND!
As an honorary Filipino I also agree that Filipino Box is too complicated, and I haven't been in a single party all day that has done it. Merry go round is far less complicated.
can't get easier than having the debuffs point where you need to be. up left goes up left. if both your arrows are the same you go to the intercard that points you ccw. This strat was also the first to have static positions for confuse/sleep, that's not unique to the google doc
Forsaken Strategy board for this strat that I feel would be a great addition.

Open strategy board -> new strategy -> share code strategy board -> paste from clipboard -> import

[stgy:afv32aEpY6M5Vxpy-cxjoQ2HiBSvfXrrMghV64bPKvYfYwuLD2m69LNLZqnKnRRPQoRa4OZ3xPGTeLQ9in0D9B70lm9SR1+7AixVdyv7LCmSIXmyS2jPFHUjJKvGFfJd6VQ6hX8dY+7nxP--ok6gqUBof1JyboCqeUeyS4PW309kzzwbDrPeaWo-GIEjDOZR3DjfAFzhajV69--rvXTcyxvXhP9fOjpc+ctkiJJTWJJzU6ilNlY+corVW3TuJbq64hvFL5RwdxkwQNWCUjx3Fu3QXvozik2Ewu8ql1QM9CjofQIACE1jHs9JIW7ljx+iUiZzfZTS6YnhSPgAz3RkFGdCOeNThETnkPkjD-4lAiUx4-lEHmWJc2t0v5lhPvAcBuACHoddg9IJ52n-Y0iqoQBXCIk5X+IPfriP7X62jMXIMyNms11v0C5HUPGAdNFcrBwmrpTSuXERh4T3mIhJe8qZ-ryfyb48rrUekcwBQCgl7cF2tKefCqqxR-zKl9p8ncvhJ-4nXlmt3KJKLJCR]
filipino arrows is braindead easy especially if you have a strategy board pinned, and i say this as someone who thought fil would be impossible before i actually tried it out
went in and did it perfectly on first pull

that being said does anyone have a board for merry go round to pull up as well?
I created this one for merry go round
[stgy:anJalDEXsrEM-eSdOA50RJkJVtLFnVyyEWXOERZj-fEZHFexdTehIS32FnajWZDDgDcH6ZPCZqItczoXga8oNX1+lKc+tT2ysRwDbXftsRnO7RYepCBePOIKZR5Y9lD9w1GlSQX4lj23dawRV6LJGaMwRAVpvB82Ip3fPenLcZ0KUd93ZMlR0FCkhD9WjNJW+sAGAvdnr0k1Zfyqy1Q3jcXsDiw13YuaIMRE5RFg9GF8Quce9-U87ahU6VWVQwi-RytOOtvAHbMDCbTfkisj4Iku1Cqodi2NxCcHLOT0Eyj8aNG09YBef1O-Vq6NWYbDgF7LNCpv9f7yPwtWm3jDC5m4HcetkASMHtTtQq9sWFYBdzahkBvjKzJ4-nk+nuvE5gcYFQNOhvf+oxMPEmZuOyyFGqAviKRYO6cVJQnRk4uWWjPiRIAqVQW2H31m-R56NaiZJvq6sqpjuJS45zfx2jkCzyEvGW7pSQ2PE5bjj44AWzeBCpFT17Lo93KL+SsetTsBGvaGEWj6VAu+zii51Ki6NrYCgrFXAut7mVtvGOioaDvRwTpm7Dk6lELSE]

I tried both merry and filipino. Filipino is definitely way easier to understand and execute. Especially it tells you where to go with your arrows
thoughts on kindred swapping from filipino to merrygoround cause its more consistent to do?
They aint poikos tho
filipino arrows solves itself more or less and gives you more time to place your initial arrow if you are a mismatched debuff holder. Just gives the more critical thinking role more time to think of what they actually need to do. Same arrows can just do whatever order they want and it doesnt matter.
Is the phase2 not doing the google doc anymore? I didnt notice it was gone and is now raidplan?
Please fix the tanks spreads for Graven 1.
what does the SSDD mean in the P2 raidplan?
i think it means Stack Stack Spread Spread? just guessing
support support dps dps?
yeah that's it
I made a couple of strategy boards - one for merry go round arrow placements and one for fixed tether spots in case it might be useful

https://board.wtfdig.info/b/I7dd48y9UwQ2p

[stgy:acQPJIFujVHRgcrqEkcwRh2iAABruoXj+HyX9tcgIr-93KqNu2e0tI9xbydzWNKWWyjnDt7fC2keQk3pK+yLiJrL4Cvkx5HTCqNiC0LT-s5-6T5ojZrOASZtF5fOH2svS0Tlt6KKOqnw0uOtj9vzePqTcUvEbAI5dNo3OZ61w9yfU7OV+C7MmeZX+EAE68NpgwXATkNmDTwA2a6wRtBAoA4-C9mk4zZb84NYcIWc7fKx96ROPbQsQVHsNtU-BZZRwv8BNRJbb48h54XqOOABSrQxrSvGGhoLsJgtPRCSMCxHgfQBi0s8lSTkoKsuzs+OHafXiFQH2caNTP1DvM3-6h9JOC+osjMk2QP3P0CXMjueQ8FVfS62LrzDlKVvrbNaUvsQ213B1qjc3K-Qutws2ImZbMd2EjwVZagVdLVjLA82JNk+cwksF9EtFJaNM8ThuHBptzF9vR0c+5REjkhSeZ9ieCZ5Mp7nEK443dFqnFwQo3CzFr4Qg2Ba6uYfGSihriDJfk2zp2dSTtmaH+iz]

[stgy:atjf62dqrFrKwttE2DtbKI+Iztb6SfeEgXTbfff-U5wOyAjiCsKKMvb8PySnF7EUJIYbCfFezFj0FZOnt05ksV6Zvc6U5I6JEgGKgBx1BPGSvZZWI6rygYCtmB62B5DmOE8ufPLD9bNdUSxqf8uoAoxNzHWZbpQJfjsUVSn40UspjNwgbLJpE3zUlXxiukvign7NnORMSHJdD8LOCf81m-GtG6QGi685bZv2IQ1dkogUAXvf2jhsWamfU3TOPsHNCNBCYisYUdFEwUYfSo0XcmRwmHtAmOO+RFX0uNuXBzL6pJDGcp1nMvADLfFN4ETvNYoV7m0TMHJJ5YfOMWX-iI4ExqFXyWRKwkMo689Bb8WHJaksl1x-V-aDExpwvWaVc1aJCrU3yFac4WJRF-LNXDub6FPqClsDFUM64WwFVvR1UufqXYkL-d9zaKUD7v+pKzvrXhmqxKWvrcFiuLNntO7AtCY0Kmhtnqvtc1]
Can we use this mit sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfM4ukTcIogmfL0zLwZhwm0_HZmbvOPWWJge4L_oMVg/edit?gid=58668446#gid=58668446

Filipino Box is so much easier, than merry go around. This Is from the Goat. I even made an account to bless you all with this info
I honestly agree, I've done both merry-go-round and Filipino and think Filipino is significantly easier and this is coming from the 5x World Heavy Champion. If I can do it, anyone can.
As a Filipino I agree. I'm not trying to go to a carnival. I'm trying to remember my homeland with 4 little houses. for my 4 little homies.
Filipino bin should be the norm. it is more intuitive and has less fucked up positions. also has uptime for all the greedy melees with no downside
should go back to manila and do the strats there.
stop changing shit.. ya'll keep ruining the damn bin every new day

it's day 3 of what will be like 2 months of prog you can be a big boy and relearn a strat
and you can smdftb, lots of others saying the same thing fuck outta here.
Y'all gotta stop changing it. Graven 2 was fine, and merry-go-round is fine. If people are having problems with them then they are simply bad players and shouldn't be doing ultimate in the first place. Stop changing stuff for no reason. Also, wth do you mean "do research", this is the place that people come to do the research
You've changed strats more than moms change diapers everyday. GET IT TOGETHER!!! pf is a absolute mess when it shouldnt be
You shouldn't focus on changing strats for P1 anymore, most people using this pastebin are trying to prog P2, the moment you change something you create more problems within PF looking to do Graven Images how they did it before and looking to do them as to how they got updated, even if they are "better" you end up just fucking up everyone's progress.
Please. Stop changing strats every 5 seconds. This is causing SO many problems in PF. Literally every strat you have posted is fine. Merry go round works, Filipino works, quad puddle and double puddle works, anyone who has the skill set to prog and clear ultimates can learn any of these strats and use them. What doesn't work is having to adjust to new strats every time you go in, when you've already progged p1 and just wanna get p2 pulls in.
It's cool that so many people were looking forward to use this as the one stop shop for Kefka ultimate strats, but the fight is very new and had puzzles that needed to be solved and it changed the way we do P1 recently which made it take even longer to create

If you want to use kefkabin as your onestop shop for PF BUT ALSO don't want any strat changes at all, I recommend waiting a couple weeks!
Otherwise if you don't want to wait AND you don't want any strat changes, then an in progress strat compilation might not be for you. There are several other things you can do like a well constructed PF description, creating a static where you choose the strats and stick to them, using or creating your own pastebin, or so on and so forth
Don't tell me to wait a couple weeks for strats to settle and then make changes to bh in the middle of week 4.
Please stop changing strats man. PF turns into a nightmare for 12 hours everytime you do
gotta be real here. Why is the p1 strat being entirely changed? All of the people pfing this has already progged it on v3.0.

Why does this corny chud (30+ yo btw) with the 4 letter name and 3 lockouts of the fight get to dictate the strats changing NOW at a RANDOM time?

This graven 2 change is bad, instead of taking 2 instances of damage we want 4 now? Genuinely, what is going through the minds of these people who are changing and adjusting the strats? Now we have to adjust more mit to that instance of damage which can be used on actually soaking it.

Just because you use mit more times over a fight doesn't make it good.

I hope PF continues to stick v3.0 in their descriptions because holy fuck.
It's shared damage so it's 4 instances of X damage or 2 instances of 2X damage, it's the same damage either way, doing the venn diagram just makes it needlessly precise on where you stand. This is an objectively better graven 2 strat and people need to grow up.
Okay, it is the same amount of shared damage.

Its still bad because all the p2 proggers now have to relearn new strats and muscle memory. There was no need for this change.
If you are not capable of relearning this extremely basic adjustment then I do not know what to tell you, it is straight up easier.
I'm sure you value alot, that being said it def isn't time.
its not a matter of 'relearning', its a matter of 'why break something that was not broken'. now you're making it hard for PF because there are too many to remember now. too many PFs are failing this stupid G2 strat.
people were already failing the previous strat. this one actually hurts less and easier to heal for healers. ppl failing this strat aren't really understanding mechanics but just memorizing movements
Graven 2 should be E/W drops instead of N/S drops to allow for better visibility of the tower for cleaves, also lets you just do "supports W DPS E" for all three Confettis. I like the new strat though much cleaner.
The statue doesn't even give the tell for the cleave until middle of the tankbuster, I don't even know what planet you are on, or you are just slow at reading mechs or need more reps.
Can I read the mechanic? Yes. Would it be easier to read if there wasn't a big purple swirly thing in the way? Also yes. We are dropping it in the sightline for literally no reason, we are going to have to do this mechanic hundreds of times on our way to clearing, why wouldn't we make it as easy as possible. Taking 2 or 3 pulls to adjust to the new strat now is worth saving 20 wasted pulls when you're on p4 prog but oops someone didn't see the purple tell through the purple puddle.
I mean you answered it yourself, purple blending in with purple is left side, woah.
I hope that being a bully on the internet is making you feel better about yourself.
I agree that it would make more sense to put the puddles east/west, but I don't want the strat changed again
In this sense, its the fact that its also helpful to read the tethers as well as the cleave to preposition and plan better of what to do instead of seeing a panic from those who didn't because of the visual issues and wiping the group or hitting the purples. It being True North imo would help much more for the tethers. I dont really care for the orb placement, but do care for if people can see it and not have to deal with having their camera issues and saying it after the wipe or death/killing that occurred. That's my respectable take. If they did E/W orbs, then I hope they make it G1 n tethers and G2 S tethers for consistency too then

the 2nd drop happens RIGHT after the cleave. it won't be possible to ensure a strict w/e drop without people rushing over. lots of caster downtime as well. i'm not sure people understand this.

as for seeing which side the statue cleaves, you can follow people to the correct half as long as you remember when the cleaves happen so i don't think seeing the statue cleaves are that important if only 1/8 of you "can't see" well. i'd recommend tilting your camera better if you can't see.

tethers are assigned prior to puddle stacking. so if you're not checking before puddle stacking, that's on you. it's like stacking in m12s before checking where your virus is pointing in act 1. too many people are relying on checking their tethers AFTER puddles drop (aka last second)
And people rely on others to help them too. There is also the situation of the people still taking dds and having to get rezzed when grav2 is happening with people not looking at their own tethers if its mixed bc the deaths and wiping the team. Its out of the box detail but has happened from what i keep running into or watching in some people's streams.

I do understand the perspective of e/w biggest con so can accept that and rather them have better movement for placement of the orbs. It gets annoying having to keep tryna tell people if they could check first for their stuff when its supposed to be Foresaken and its grav2 for 3/4 pulls bc that.
You wouldn't have to go all the way to the edge. You can use the same spacing that we currently use for North South quads, so it would be the same amount of movement.

In PF, relying on 1 or 2 people to know what's going on is a bad plan. Far better to be able to see and judge for myself and pay attention to my teammates as a double check that I read it right.
Hopefully they do that. I try to stay wary because i still have my hiccups and seeing someone else out of the blue do something and its gonna affect what i have to do would shift where my focus in the wrong area.
Idk if this helps but last night I realized that there's a different sound cue for the half room cleaves. The purple one sounds more low and rumbly as it charges and the yellow has a higher pitch mixed in. Realizing this has made this a lot easier for me!
Change the pastebin strats for P1 again and im gonna touch you

Touch time boss
can we updated the spread stack after graven 3 to be consistent with graven 1?
There's nothing wrong with the video, L rant
Does "look at your leftmost debuff" for Graven3 work for both right- and left-aligned debuff bars? Or is that making assumptions about people's UI?
Hey the goat here, if you want to do the new Grav 2 chg. fine but it needs to be TN  G1 W, G2 E, it keeps visibility on statue and doesn't require camera turns. You're Welcome.
Does that leave enough time to get in position for the first puddle set when dodging the cleave?
Yes, you just end up going same side for both N/S
I'd mixed up the order of mechanics: How does that work for the *second* puddle drop, where if the half-room cleave is on the side you need you have to wait for it?
You still have time to get into position. I watch a lot of people wait for the cleave to go off before moving for the second puddle, even when the side we need is safe.
you can just look at your tether angle for north puddles without looking at statue, rocks are a lot more noticeably to the side
Question for Graven Image 3 Post-Arrows Stacks: Why not 1 & 4 for DPS and 2 & 3 for Supports? Why force downtime when there's plenty of room?
Question about Grav 3....why was the spots changed again for spreads? I had to get used to west for dps even though having to be e or se for the fetti and grav1, but the spread and getting killed by people yesterday after they said v4 came out really mushed my head when we was doing fine the previous way.

So many people asking for Filipino, and instead all we're getting is strats slightly changed every 5 minutes.
Thank you so much for doing merry go round for arrows, this is so much comfier! I also appreciate being east in graven 3 as H2, since I don't have to run all the way across the map while healing and mitting lol
For Graven 3, there is a solution for the teleporters. By entering them N->S or S->N, you end up in a situation where the slightest variation in placement can fuck you over. But if you simply enter them E->W and W->E, this follows the directions the arrows are actually going to send you, which makes server ticks far more forgiving. Please change to this strat.
not sure what you mean, but if you're referring to using this on the box strat, wouldn't this require people to be at corners? the time to heal and run to spots aren't easy
should just go back to v3.0. Quad Graven 2 and Static/Max Melee Graven 3. No more changes. Move on with p3/p4. Kroxy RMMR is PFs preferred. Should dip yourself into PF to see the mess this has created. Stop changing. P1 is fine.
don't bother raising a legitimate issue, the creator of the doc and their friends will say "its day4 just relearn it" "it's not a bad strat". it's just a bunch of people sucking eachother off in NAUR

if you ask them to not change it every minute, they'll as their friends to shut you down
The level to which people are defending this is truly absurd. Strats changing multiple times a minute is awful, but all you get in response to raising the issue is toxicity.
you aren't guiding anyone if you change your strats every minute
gotta love how the initial comment under this was deleted because it hurt their disgusting ego!
"waaa the strats changed"

So what you're saying is... Umad?
No mitsheet coverage for P3 for Madmitty. Ikuya and CMBG already has mits listed
please update the fixed tether spots for graven 3 so that players enter the arrows from the back or the front rather than the sides. entering arrows from the side can cause a diagonal teleport that breaks the strat.

https://x.com/Caia_Bun/status/2062580968989638691?s=20
they chaged to back/front for like a day then reverted, entering from the back/front is even more inconsistent and you can just end up skipping an arrow.
This is why they reverted arrows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=450qz9EcS3U
lol this is now my experience as well
PF has already progged 3/4/1. Get rid of bowtie strat. Thanks.
who the fuck is doing 4-4
its 3-4-1 or 3-4-1 south adjust
Can you please just delete the entire bin and let someone else make a resource? unironically the world would be a better place
All having the 4-4 listed does is divide the entirety of pf. Now all the people who progged 3/4/1 get gated from 4/4 parties. Just. Fucking. Remove. It.
Requiring tank LB3 to solve Forsaken is cringe
Wasn't PF doing normal 3-4-1, not south adjust?
correct - and that's the default setting in the waju sim
Please put the original Rinon Strat back. Ty

plz go back to regular rinon forsaken

you cant be fkin serious completely changing the fkin strat for the hardest mech right now that ppl are walled on, WHY R U FUKIN CHANGING FORSAKEN BRUH..... im  convinced this bin wants to troll ppl into not getting to p3 at this spoint. PUT RINON KROXY BACK YOU FKIN EARTHWORM
Pls stop being a chud and go back to the old 3/4/1 rinon strat, having to use tank lb for a strat is cringe
I don't understand Forsaken yet but when I do I want to use KROXY RINON!
I understand the frequent changes even if i prefer to just keep old 3/4/1 but why add a new strat completely different that forces to USE TANK LB 3 just to be able to solve it. Please just remove Bowtie at least.
someone else should just make a better pastebin. its clear there's cronyism here when they changed to strats that are clearly their friends and make absurd claims about it being voted on
You guys were ok changing Forsaken but Filipino Box was just too much for you lol
the folks at NAUR would rather eat their own legs than acknowledge Filipino as a valid strat. It's genuine insanity.
PUT RINON BACK!

It's funny how obvious the person making this Kefakabin doesn't care. I'm not sure if they're even progging this themselves because there's no way they keep changing and adding new strats every hour. The most backwards thinking I've seen from someone trying to make guides and help party finder with mechs. Might just be a friend circle jerk jorking it to themselves trying to prove they're smart with all these strats without actually doing the fight. This kefkabin is used for themselves not for the people doing party finder. Changing things is fine, but give justifiable points on why without just changing it and not caring where pf is currently progging and what they're doing.
put the fucking rinon strat back.
stop changing strats everyday, P1, puddles, box, filipino, ABBA, 341, 341 sOUTH FLEX, 4/4 in less than 3 days.

Also, this person clearly do not play healer, making healer flex (south adjust) for 3-4-1 is so stupid, at this point make healer share TBs too
Because making melees do mechanic is a sin, have not learned from fixed stampede /s
remove south flex and put kroxy rinon back. noone was usimg south flex. ur screwing up pf on one of the hardest mechs for no reason.
We switch to burger bin
https://pastebin.com/bA3Hi7u2
Bout to go on an alt, go into every party finder and post this instead, we need to get rid of kefkabin
I would but need burger to update to filipino box >.>
Nah he's in NAUR, NAUR is fully committed to hating Filipino
Go back to the Rinon 341 normal strat please - its a lot of adjusting as soon as one thing begins to lock in it gets changed again, casters and healers complaining about south flexing

its weird to see them change p2 strats since there is the sim that has the rinon strat people are practicing while waiting in pf for enrage/p3 prog just for the strat to change for no reason?
Please change it back to kroxy rinon.
NO WAY WE'RE CHANGING IT AGAIN ARE WE DEADASS
I just really want to know what the point of lying about Forsaken Popularity was for? South Adjust was never a thing in PF until you put it in the bin so deleting Rinon and re-adding bowtie to say that these strats, in particular, were the most popular in PF is just a straight up lie that the average pfer will believe and will make this bin lose credibility if all it is is just you pushing your preferences that you are most likely not doing through pf yourself
nobody even uses bowtie either so like i dont get the point of deleting a strat where people who pfed and are already in p3 are now forced to relearn another strat thats not even better for the sake of melees not using an ounce of braincell
There's 2 sims for rinon bring that shit back. Who the fuck uses bowtie, using tank lb3 for that is just dumb
kroxy rinon was fine as is, south adjust is an ok alternative but probably shouldnt have been listed unless it was overtaking popularity which it wasnt. the sim is already made so there is no difficulty in learning it for anybody atp

also endorsing a strat that uses tank lb3 due to solving the mechanic incorrectly is really questionable lol
THANK YOU so much for putting kroxy-rinon back lol
Thank you for putting Rinon Back :)
THANK YOU FOR BRINGING RINON BACK. PF SHOULD STICK TO THAT STRAT
recommendation: Remove bowtie 4-4 from this bin.

literally only thing listed in p2 should be kroxy rinon, that's all that was used
is there a reason the creator of this pastebin is lying about kroxy-rinon being less popular? even as of now on aether twice as many parties are listing kroxy-rinon over s adjust, i just don't understand why they'd lie
edit: i see they say it was a miscommunication potentially so i apologize, just wish they'd remove s adjust from the kefkabin now since it's just going to cause more confusion in the long run imo
Once again agreed, the only forsaken strat that should be listed is kroxy-rinon to stop this confusion and nonsense right now
why are you only looking at suggestions? if you spent half a day looking at what pf was doing you would obviously know kroxy rinon was the most popular strat. its obvious bin maker isnt even pfing lol
Requesting the mitts section also link to "clown mit but good", just for have both more easily accessible from the pastebin.
Clown Mit but Good is better than this madmitty slop.  Swallow your pride and concede to it.
I am not going to lie but after trying both, PLEASE get rid of madmitty and replace it for Clown Mit but Good or at least add it as an extra, mad mitty is horrible for the tanks DRK being T2 but doing MT stuff like ??? make it make sense, meanwhile Clown Mit but Good offers so many options for MT and OT depending on your co-tank. LIKE PLEASE JUST ADD IT
So, copying sg3k's phase 3 and slapping it into a google doc and putting your name on it is...normal? Is your ego this high that you need your name on everything? Just put the raid plan back, you legit copied it part for part.
is it posible to just return to rinon instead of trying to split the pf playerbase?
push to have freak arrows for P1 it is 95 % the same as the arrow strat PF already uses but with 1 minor change to cardinal arrows and needing to watch tether but it makes the mechanic far more consistent for getting into p3 https://raidplan.io/plan/qD9Y_g1caq3l5gD-
pleaaaase put down freaky arrows i have had enough of wipes due to arrow jank
Don't get the point of going back to this. I have yet to experience this issue in pf, only reason people wipe to arrows is because of not placing arrows right or not making it to stacks? This just adds more to the mechanic while doing nothing to reduce what I've seen my groups wipe to
this is how i know u are probably not in P3 yet.. once u want to get p3 prog u will see why its annoying to not use freeak arrows failing over and over again due to arrow jank is not fun and wastes time
GET RID OF SOUTH ADJUST. Pf was doing fine with the normal 341 now you're just cucking casters. having 8 ppl flex instead of just 4 is a BAD idea for pf
Why is south adjust back AGAIN? Holy fucking shit, stop putting it there.
Hi, My friend posted this as world race team DN was using it. It works for statics and requires the old diamond markers. But can you add in addendum to p2 for DN/Zenith Cone baits? It gives 3 different refences for the players and everything else in kroxy rinon is the same. It just makes cone baits easier and forces players in p1 to drop their arrows in line with the diamond shape.

https://raidplan.io/plan/45JNLdXZzViFv41X
Clip of zenith in action using diamond markers, which is used for p3 anyways. No more big box markers if you want to keep progging past p3.

https://www.twitch.tv/tuskler/clip/IntelligentTsundereYakUWot-IDP4UXejWgUN7UId
If you have regular markers placed, you can use them as a reference. For instance if the square marker is inside the tower you can cut it perfectly at 90 degrees. If the tower is in a circle marker you can use the number marker corners to "Point" where you mmust stand to allign yourself.

When a circle marker in in the tower, you are able to distinguish where to put a defamation/spread easily as well, the same can be said for the intercard patterns.

Lets not do this please, having this weird movement of slight adjusting is only going to throw people off. The Cone should be directly at the front of the tower while the baiter a perfect 90 hugging the tower.

This strategy just creates more room for error of getting hit by a past/future bait.
modification of box arrows to make teleporting much more consistent, changes are to read tether. confuse out, sleep in. cardinal markers closer to center more. place on the inner part of marker on cardinals only. rest is same works with low ping and people from china, africa, australia  https://raidplan.io/plan/qD9Y_g1caq3l5gD-
This is imo worse, static is currently better as you don't even have to think about whether you have sleep or confuse.
ur gambling if ur able to phase to p3 yes its easier but its much more inconsistent
if you cant read a tether and place an arrow in front of a marker to make reaching p3 more consistent you shouldnt be progging an ultimate
conterpoint, i like progging p3 and rather not wipe to merry go round static because of tickrate issues or a marker slightly not in the exact pixel to catch an immediate snapshot at edge of tp
This would have never been an issue if people didn't settle on the inferior merrygo strat to begin with >.>
Update: I would be careful with doing the Sim - The new updated positioning spots for Kroxy 341 and the sim positioning is currently different. Sim is still the same spots as before the 90 degree change was implemented. I'm sure they will update the Sim but be aware sim positioning is different and may cause wipes if people are following the new spots from the raidplan while some people are following sim spots. But still use your eyes when progging.
thankfully the sim has now been updated to reflect these changes as of 45 mins ago \o/
WHy is PF all of a sudden spamming freaky arrows. This strat is pointless it just creates more brain clot while doing the mechanic.
wanna know how i know you're not p3 prog?
it fixes the inconsistency with the normal kefka bin arrows needing to look at ur tether is not hard to do LOL u do that in g2 dont u ?
Why did we go from 90 degrees to marker as well? Don't tell me this pastebin handler swindled the raid plan owner into changing it too. All of PF already progged it, learned they tells for it and now its just, haha, gone, waste of time.
Have you literally never stepped into the fight? Freaky arrows are to account for the server ticks snapshotting character positions early so they get teleported diagonally. Marker position is because the ranged cone baiter getting clipped by clone drops on even towers is the most common reason for wipes in Forsaken

If SE changes arrows so that players are teleported FROM the MIDDLE of the arrow regardless of where they get server ticked then it makes sense to go back to static tethers. But until then freaky arrows will prevent people from getting fucked by server ticks which they have no control over.
You also need diamond markers for P3 BoA
90 degrees was a very tight/precise position that led to most if not all pf wipes in forsaken. With marker positioning, the ranged cone can bait more safely without risking being clipped at all. Pfs seeming to adjust to this pretty well, and I've done both strats in pf and reached p3 because of this. Pf still sucks at forsaken, but its due to memory game stuff now not cone baits.
https://raidplan.io/plan/3wqr483tjcsgd6xv

p5 raidplan
Ikuya worst mit plan ever. Please keep the other mit plans linked. Seriously, whoever made that either doesn't play tanks, or really hates healers, or really hates DRK
It says there are 2 Forsaken plans but only lists one.
Why is the mit plan made to default DRK as MT in GNB/DRK, Drk is never a MT in any mit sheet in any other ulti aside from niche scenarios since its the worst tank to hold a boss but now the mits were changed based on DRK/GNB? Why are they labeled as GNB/DRK if its the other way around? Not to mention the amount of DRK MTs in pf is vastly lower than any DRK OT player its just nonsensical considering that In a gnb/drk comp in pf, the standard would be the gnb as the MT so this just messes that up more than anything.
DRK OT mit plan
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19f-MasL6Fi2_8tMCdnFf2f8nDAQVfpG1Fic-JYtoDKI/edit?usp=sharing
Ikuyamit is handled by people outside of the paste bin - go to the mitsheet and bring it up with them. I am on your side though GNB/DRK is usually GNB MT/DRK OT

I left them feedback in their discord, you can voice your concerns with them here https://www.google.com/url?q=https://discord.gg/SgrRU5tJ6q&sa=D&source=editors&ust=1781197236759282&usg=AOvVaw3pSpKms_Fool92kz-Pruwk
ADD FREAKY ARROWS TO THE PASTEBIN, LET PF TRY IT
VIDEO GUIDE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL4CIqCxRng
RAIDPLAN: https://raidplan.io/plan/qD9Y_g1caq3l5gD-

they wont listen most people are still on p2 prog so they dont care about p3 90 % of p3 groups rn in PF is all doing freak arrows it will catch on eventually because who wants to fail p1 arrows 50 % of the time
Sad to see South Flex go. I wonder if all the casters and healers realize that putting all the work on tanks and melees in Forsaken is a large part of why they're seeing so many wipes, as the mental load is much higher, and there are times when you just cannot tell what your partner had.
as a tank id rather do that hard work, though its not that hard to flex really, and cause less wipes when theres only 3 other people needing to flex rather than 7, letting the ranged and healers focus more on getting their cone baits positioned properly makes sense to me as I see wipes to those far more often
you can either have tanks/melee flex, or you can ask healers to flex, cast, and heal. which sounds more reasonable?
suggestion to provide Venn's LB3 Bowels as an alternative/option:
https://raidplan.io/plan/cyHdnCaTdIkh4Eq0

it enforces LB3 usage to cleanse all 8 winds - supposedly LB3 comes back later, but I am not sure myself.
emphasis on alternative - if it becomes the norm, that's for PF to decide
(there's nothing wrong with SG3K - this just makes the mechanic more trivial in movement and execution)
Pf is already doing this
hey just letting you know ikuya mit is fucking terrible and has you using mit at one point then supposedly being about to use mit later while its on cd, MT cannot gcd1 rep the tb AND rep loj1, even if you rep while PULLING its still 2s off lol, can you please stop putting dogshit mitplans up?
Also idk what's going on with OT wave cannon but it says War/Pld use party mit on Wave Cannon at 0:42 and then again on Double-Trouble Trap at 1:58 which is not possible.  Should be MT only and OT uses Party Mit at 0:23-0:27 regardless of job.
You have to Party mit before he does the graven 1 cast and itll be up for double trouble trap at 1:58. Ive always dont it before ikuya placed it in his mit plan
Ya that makes sense that all OTs have to do that.  That's why it doesn't make sense that it's split up into GNB/DRK and WAR/PLD, it shouldn't matter, they all have to mit at the same time if they want party mit back up for double trouble trap.
Can we add freaky arrow? All p3 pfs are doing it since it's the most consistent as of now with how arrows are latency wise. Heres the raidplan for it,  https://raidplan.io/plan/qD9Y_g1caq3l5gD-
Spreading zenith propoganda for p3 elements https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1EzIirThfcs135xGeVrpwtO0ckw6gG8A4I-DPaKUIMl4/edit?usp=sharing
plzzzzzzz learn p3 and don't put tank lb in until peepz are more familiar with the fight / have the dps for it
PF switched to this, can you add it https://raidplan.io/plan/cyHdnCaTdIkh4Eq0
Tank LB P3 everyone is doing it
Can you check this for P3? Only fire buffs need to be outside, other ppl just stack together under the fire crystal https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1aPE56rE9f/
This is 100% 1 min braindead solution better than any other ones. Absolutely brilliant.
R1 and R2 should swap their positions for p3 braindead positioning. It makes absolutely no sense why R1 is positioned closer to the boss and R2 away from boss, if ultimately R2 is going to be moving back to the party and r1 has to move to outside. This is just unnecessary movement for zero reason.
Look at the google doc for lb cheese - its all there in that doc

Swapping the "default" arrow strat to Freaky Arrows is a huge mistake. That strat does NOT help prevent more wipes. You will wipe more to people not going to the right initial spot (since you cannot do static spots with Freaky Arrows) than you will to the janky arrows.
If you can't look to the statue and see what color you are you have literally no hope in getting past even p2, there is a reason every party in p3 and beyond is using strats other then the original ring around the rosey
No matter how you slice it, I find PF can't do merrygo/box/freaky, whatever you want to call it. Filipino Arrows is the way to do it. It has static spots, it is way easier to find out where to go. So please, consider learning it. Here is an in-depth mini-guide that goes over all you need to know. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eI5hvrNcncLGXLme32K5h9uuztCxgL7GrowZoS16E4Q/edit?usp=sharing
you're right but the powers-that-be have long since plugged their ears to the truth on this one
P3: Oce LB Strat - Raid plan for the entire phase
https://raidplan.io/plan/bAcI24JsBuuVxhZ9

It keeps ranged and casters in static spots, so way less movement and more consistent heals. It also does vacuum wave as an 8 stack and still LB3's it.

Overall cleaner strat/modification of the LB3
Hello, I would like you to review the Graven 2 strat. Currently, the way we do it is inefficient — we take way more damage than we should be taking. Other data centers like China and EU do it the better way, where you drop 2 puddles North and South, then take the puddles one at a time, resulting in significantly less damage taken. Please fix this.
tell your healers to get good. only ppl having this problem are ppl with parse brained healers who dont wanna gcd heal or dog shit healers. you happen to be both of those from what i hear unfortunately
The damage is exactly the same. You're taking more puddles, but also splitting the damage between more bodies. There's no vuln, so the damage profile doesn't change.
Stop changing the merry go round/freaky/filipino and fix the waymarks.
These are the marks my static uses and it fixes everything. All I did was move the letter markers in by 1 and we no longer have any issues with arrows and all other mechanic strats still work.

{"Name":"Better UMAD","MapID":1094,"A":{"X":100.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":88.5,"ID":0,"Active":true},"B":{"X":111.5,"Y":0.0,"Z":100.0,"ID":1,"Active":true},"C":{"X":100.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":111.5,"ID":2,"Active":true},"D":{"X":88.5,"Y":0.0,"Z":100.0,"ID":3,"Active":true},"One":{"X":95.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":95.0,"ID":4,"Active":true},"Two":{"X":105.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":95.0,"ID":5,"Active":true},"Three":{"X":105.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":105.0,"ID":6,"Active":true},"Four":{"X":95.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":105.0,"ID":7,"Active":true}}


Ignore what I put above, I pasted the wrong set. The numbers were bad week 1.
Here's the better set:
{"Name":"Better UMAD","MapID":1094,"A":{"X":100.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":88.5,"ID":0,"Active":true},"B":{"X":111.5,"Y":0.0,"Z":100.0,"ID":1,"Active":true},"C":{"X":100.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":111.5,"ID":2,"Active":true},"D":{"X":88.5,"Y":0.0,"Z":100.0,"ID":3,"Active":true},"One":{"X":94.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":94.0,"ID":4,"Active":true},"Two":{"X":106.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":94.0,"ID":5,"Active":true},"Three":{"X":106.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":106.0,"ID":6,"Active":true},"Four":{"X":94.0,"Y":0.0,"Z":106.0,"ID":7,"Active":true}}
ive updated the p5 raidplan to include the sg3000 version of the last mechanic in p5 if it makes it easier to just have 1 raidplan linked !
Oh ty. Thats helpful! c:
PLEASE READ: The p3 raidplan needs to swap healer 2 with healer 1. healer 2 should be on chaos and the regen healer should be the one on ex death since scholar should be putting chain on choas for the melees during the blackholes 2 min window. Scholar can't chain him if we cant even hit him.He will be immune to it.
the p3 prio is awesome but it should be supp>dps>accretion. supp being 2nd prio means if a tank is 3 prio 2, the boss WILL follow them to the wall. slide 52 is wrong and misleading. if chaos tank is 3.2 and the tether they need is NW, and the melees dodge E, everyone is fucked on uptime. if dps are 2nd prio, only 1 melee gets cooked. its also way harder to center them for tap dance if one of the bosses follows you to the wall. its just better to reverse it.
it was support get first cw tether at first, then they randomly changed it for no reason. Now its cooked, pf is already used to doing it this way :/
Suggestion to change the P3 Stomp towers to be role based (healer - tank - ranged - melee) for several reasons. 1) Almost every other P3 mechanic/strat is determined via role, not light party. 2) When bouncing between pfs, it is much easier to remember your role than your light party. 3) Parity with other ultis like FRU. 4) Potentially better melee uptime if Chaos is biased toward the relative east side.
aight they hotfixed arrows, can we go back to just drawing a square instead of this asinine one step in shit now pls? thanks
can you guys update the p3 slide 16 to show the 8 man stack US pf seems to prefer?
P4 says to learn to self mark but provides no information on what we're marking for/what marks/etc?
There is a severe shortage of tanks. Parties are not filling. Maybe it was a bad idea to design strats that shift all the responsibility onto them.
brother put the old p5 raidplan back, this one is worse and has the dps west when they are literally east for every mechanic.
and we don't need another p3 raidplan, no one wants to reprog that, keep only the original faedoc
We absolutely don't need a new prio for P3. Remove the new one.
Dank Feet BH suggestion:
No offense but stop making PF having to swap their brain for different pick up positions when you can simply have the support just take BOTH tethers in the 9th set and DPS take the 10th set. Here is example of strat board, please consider this so you dont make PF have to reprog their brain, thank you.

"[stgy:aTogjqU3-jqOYt0TpkMMXSpRHZwodOtJLN4GztiIWeV8WPhDRv-Fnab6XNU3qVHgcPFGXvuO6Gj4LxW2ylgU-WV9+UHED+Y2cRRGIn93miPKRBW1daQUrVyeyUox-zDKYf3bzDzHDwQMY7jorOR5JPbde4mtF8lWYlfFkSW2JR5jl+UQRG7wDyrAzZByV91NOUrjOZU3g-nI9o3mN0fgFPiMAqGwjFs4p1dz6xXB6Ta-w20axLv6Uha-2Uu-6LiyIZG3eX1kg+2sXD1qdGhZhcP-cclhm3j45tv-91fvnTvC5vg4eiDhxTpRBSvstzL8SZNw05dPzCiCyTIug91FP-knN9ABiC5Cpyv1bztJ5OU8XZ1b7Kk9Pt0s-Ku7cdHtPx2c+oY+JrvI+ZMw+BhnyFK1txuMKsVhgh1w3zCKpuGctbqchdcxKJ4LOGUFDN1drwk2LjpGg4UknpLMOFzkSgrvX40bW-lVBPowBPtFSVqkPEGvMnIGAGpDYaUs2INKgY0KTFYyJUm3fgkE1GmnwRZ98eWVNxdjrG5HfnILLavd3Xuel6XsmJG64JUXcQUUsmCrmKI576SY1uzJL05M4H2djqDdMndwxKf+b3qjwHpiXc62EEjb2ZBnRSPJuIA+OYwwu-vUheehNZQftsPP2yiwM1Lw2gJ0Yw1Oe5]
"
we dont need another prio for p3, stop tryin to make pf reprog stuff when most of us are already in p4 wtf

Suggestion on P3 Blackhole
Support Grab both Tether on set 9
DPS grab solo tether on set 10

This allows Chaos tank to never have to chase Tether 10, get killed by an auto attack after hitting 1 HP, and allows Chaos tank to always drag Chaos to a static location relative to Kefka (party follows) and allow full melee DPS uptime even if they have the tether.
It also allows Chaos to be recentered when returning to center to stack puddle and move out.
I guarantee that this new supps first strat will cause infinitely more wipes than it saves. Making the first in line exdeath tank pick up both tethers is an extremely bad idea. This strat is unironic yakubian tricknology

In the example slide, if it was first in line tank instead of the healer, the tank would need to run all the way through the boss, grab the second tether and rotate fast enough for exdeath to path out of the middle before locking lmao. If there is even a moments delay, he's going to lock in the middle and probably kill everyone who is used to the middle being safe.
Can we please roll back these changes to P3, this is going to kill P3 in PF. Now people will have mixed strategies, the ppl who can get to P4 are used to the old, the ppl who are stuck in BH prog are gonna swap because they think that blocked their progression. This is just a whole big mess....
Why change P3? This pastebin is supposed to be a collection of strats that partyfinder is doing, not whatever your favourite streamer does.
Nobody will want to reprog black hole when they're already on p4 or p5. This is insanely dumb, just roll it back.
can we please have a soul to make a new bin so we can stick to it with no dumb changes? the person keeping this bin cant seem to contain his urge to cater to streamers it seems

you have brain damage to change the whole blackhole strat when ppl are already this deep in, nobody is going to do this new one, we are rebelling against it!
Why did we flip the support groups during stomps in the dank feet doc. Just have G1 west and G2 east like it has been. You can still have the initial starting positions Supp north and Dps south, but why did you change the direction the support pairs go?

And yea, keep dps > supp > accretion.

Do support grab both tether on set 9
DPS grab solo tether on set 10

we change it to clownbin https://pastebin.com/WC4x0pYv
4th week, lets make changes when there are more people doing p4 and p5. good thing we have 3 retards "crafting" strats
just don't chage the BH strat or at least just make it supp dps acre the standard not add another conflicting strat with double tether please.
You keep changing shit that doesn't need changing. Current stompies strat is super easy if you cannot do it you are bad lol. Also PF has a whole has been doing 8stack knockback LB3 cheese for weeks now and yet the provided strat still have people breaking off into pairs of two. I wouldn't be surprised if people swap to another bin at this rate.
Stop fucking touching p3 when pf has already progged it. You (fae fairy dumb fuck) arent even on p4.
the fae doc guy isnt running this its the person who did mad mitty.

I'm beginning to think this pastebin is ran by kefka the way this is being ran.

can we all agree to stop gagging on streamers dick? thank very much
are we lobotomized by chance
It's week 4 with the mechanic being 14 minutes into the fight. Why are changes being made?
you should just delete this bin and pack it up

gg i guess we use clownbin now
The bosses do not auto attack when tethers start shooting until Kefka either slaps, flops or stands up. Tanks are not at risk of being 1 tapped because it just doesn't happen. the BH order change solves nothing and just muddies the waters for PF. Tanks should be rolling short CDs and healers are party healing for the raid wides.
clownbin never failed us https://pastebin.com/NakJP9T6
nobody wants your bin or mit plan FMBG guy
everyone self-reporting that they've never done early ulti pf before lol. things change all the time constantly, especially since early strats are often not optimal. removing pain points is only gonna make things easier in the long run. get over it.
calling it pain points(its not) when its literally just a streamer wanting to be different fitting name mate
except they are, and the new strats especially dank feet, are just better. less visual clutter, easier on supps during a fight that is already tough on them. why not change? cuz it may take an extra few pulls to get used to? (assuming ur not shit at the game)
self reporting as a DPS player that didn't tank the content looooooooooooool
It was never a pain point when I was progging black hole.
making things easier for healers = making things easier for everyone. simple math. even if it wasnt a problem for you personally, why not make it even less of a problem?
No amount of catering to healers is going to make them good players. A lot of healers are just really bad at healing and no amount of catering towards them is going to fix it.
They don't have to figure out anything because there is a literal sheet that tells them what to do where.
But for some reason for XIV players Healers are immune to criticism and are infinitely catered to, despite me dying to autos and tankbusters way before Phase 3. I love taking a Tankbuster at 50% hp while the whitemage is busy glaring.
The only healers I ever had issues with during Blackhole are just clueless drooling idiots that don't just follow the mitplan.
idk man i think it makes sense to cater to healers when they have the hardest job in the fight lmao, makes sense to me!
They can cater to themselves by reprogging as a DPS if they struggle healing the content with a literal sheet of paper telling them what button to press when. Again, no amount of catering is going to make them good players. It's an ultimate encounter, it's supposed to be difficult and clearly some people aren't made for it. They should just play a braindead easy dps job with no responsibilities like you do or wait until the fight gets powercrept in Evercold if they CAN'T MIT/HEAL A FIGHT THAT HA A LITERAL SHEET OF PAPER TELLING THEM WHAT TO DO.
nothing u said has proven me wrong lmao. if we can still make it less stressful, why not? the piece of paper still applies to both, except one puts less stress on healers. if anything, being unwilling to make a slight adjustment for a net gain is the biggest skill issue ever lmao.
I am unwilling to cater to dogshit healers that are dogshit at the game,they unleash the rape gorillas when someone misses a feint or addle but they miss their big mits or mismanage their big cooldowns all the time.
As tank I am not allowed to build any muscle memory in this fight because I have to check for mit/strat changes daily and I have to adapt to them during a pull instantly because everything keeps being changed to cater towards healers that still cannot execute a mitplan.
Just say "i love sucking saus tiny brown dick and I prefer his strats" and we can move on.
"As tank I am not allowed to build any muscle memory in this fight because I have to check for mit/strat changes daily and I have to adapt to them"

welcome to early pf ulti, nice to have you! if u dont wanna adjust constantly, wait for the strats to be finalized and come back, the content aint going anywhere
Week 4 isn't early. Everything is settled. People are already clearing in PF (not with the saus strat btw) because it just works and people are used to it. Maybe you think it's early because you are still hardstuck on Blackhole Prog and you don't know that people are already past P4 and actually clearing?
in the context of an ultimate it very much is still early, especially since the content is evergreen unlike savage, but go off man. im sure your incessant whining will do wonders for the hate boner you have for healers. have a good day.
The changes for the black hole are ridiculous. Just because you are progging P3 (whoever is making this google slide) and not at P4 does not mean you have to change the whole bin for ALL of Party Finder. Tanks are managing the last black hole fine with either a self mit/self shield/self heal and support from healers who have a functioning brain. Just because your little party is wiping to the last black hole does not mean you need flip flop the whole strat. This is ridiculous lmaooooo
no one wants do dank feet either, please revert to what it was the other day and stop listening to people forcing you to make changes
anytime a change happens you don't like you can make your own strat compilation and use that instead
If you are correct that the change was bad you'll have the majority of people using those strats instead of this one

The truth is, regardless of how you feel, that the majority seem to like these changes because they keep using these strategies

But feel free to prove me wrong
I'm looking at PF right now and like 90% of the P3+ parties up are doing old BH. At most I only see two parties asking for double tethers. Where is this majority you speak of?
old BH is still in the bin what are you talking about
if you are all using a strat that isn't in the bin, then you'd have a point
But no, it's as you say , no it's more than what you say 100% are using kefkabin which  means they are doing a great job
Either you misread my comment or you wrote yours poorly.

You said this:
"The truth is, regardless of how you feel, that the majority seem to like these changes because they keep using these strategies"

And I'm saying IF the majority like these recent changes to BH tethers and stomps, WHERE is this majority when almost every party for P3, P4 and P5 is still doing old BH and tower stomps?
Is "majority" in the room with us or in your head...
It's in the description of the partyfinders lol
nobody does the new strats
I was talking about Peari, agreeing with snail lol
please keep making changes i love seeing these freaks cry
Double tether DSA solves all of the problems with current pf strat. If only people were capable of using their single braincell to make the tiny adjustment from what they are used to. But 4 weeks of muscle memory when they have probably only been on p3 for 1 week is hard to break it seems
another saus dicksucker

"painpoint"
"problem"
Yet none of you can articulate what either are. A streamer you like said it's bad so you rewire your brain like a bot and downloaded a new opinion that you gotta spout around and when challenged can't even express what it is.
"problems"
Exdeath positioning while he does a proximity baited 5y aeo buster is inconsistent in BH set 1
Healers potentially having to move for back to back tether sets instead of a single tether set in BH set 1
Tanks going to 1 HP 3 seconds before an auto attack in BH set 4
Tanks having mit and which boss they tank dictated due to the priority of "old BH" strat instead of Exdeath positioning being fixed by not having tanks ever take 2nd tether in BH set 1.

Is this clear enough for you?
I can use less big words if that helps you understand?
Here is a fun trick. The tethers are predictable. Starting from the first tether the first 2 cardinal CCW blackholes will spawn tethers. You can literally move Exdeath as soon as the first tether spawns because you know where the tether will be.
When the tankbuster is happening, there are no black holes. There is nothing else happening in the fight. If you get hit by the tankbuster no amount of strat changing is going to accommodate for a lack of paying attention to what's happening on the screen.
I have yet to die a single time to being put to 1 hp because the delay is gargantuan. They stop auto attacking because otherwise it would be really bad game design.
Moving out with TIL as tank is not an issue and actually better than potentially a melee losing uptime. Meanwhile when I drag the boss out everyone gets to maintain uptime.
All I see is that you never tanked Black Hole and are just parroting something that someone else told you.
To your first point you are right. Since you know where the tether will be you can consistently pull Exdeath towards the first tether. Now imagine if it could just stay there 100% of the time since the tank would never take the following tethers. This sounds pretty consistent to me good point so double tether is more consistent for that part.

Next point, you have never died to the auto and the gap is "gargantuan". The delay from the 1 HP to the auto is literally 3-4 seconds. But I'm glad you think 3-4 is gargantuan, I'm sure the women in your life agree.

And finally, moving out with TIL is a non issue. By your logic I am assuming you are moving the boss to where the whole party is already going? Good keep doing that and at the same time the DPS who now takes that last tether can do what you do and go with you. If it is simple to know which side the entire party is going to dodge Kefka then they can go that way as well. So double ether by your own admission will not lose anyone uptime
changelog says i like to suck on sausages so if he wants something in the bin, i should keep sucking and make everyone reprog a phase
PF IS A MESS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF YOU. P3 IS ALL OVER THE PLACE
Is it? 99% of listings just say Old BH strat. Where is the mess?

it is too late to rectify the issue of forgoing the usual ulti/savage prio of giving support/healers the easier prio to let them focus more on heal checks. No one in pf did supp>dps>accretion after you changed it to dps>supp>accretion and got dps first popular, and no one is doing it.if you wanted to avoid tanks getting auto'd or healers struggling with an entire phase long heal check you'd have kept supp>dps>accre aka the original bh strat when you first added it. adding it back now does nothing as pf is resisting this change. no one in pf is doing any of the new bh whether its double tether or supp>dps>accretion. At this point, you're just clogging the bin for p3, and you need to bite the bullet and remove anything that wasnt previous bh. it sucks but at this point us healers just have to get used to it and suffer. thats it.

also if your tank is dying to autos after tethers/earthquake, ask them to throw any spare mit they can on autos. 99% of the time my tank died it was because i was mid gcd heal/had no ogcd heals/shields for them and they used no mit to hold them over for the 1 second it takes to heal.
I feel like the mitplan for tank comps in p4 is turbo lazy. You only get really autod at the beginning, but the autos don't become an issue later down the line because kefka is locked in casting a lot. After the last TB during BH tanks can easily use some Short mits and a 90sec, then start P4 with their 40% so it's back all up for p5.
Double tethers is objectively superior in every way after trying it I have to say
Why does the P3 Stomps say relative kefka north when kefka is in the center of the room at stomp-a-mole?

Kefka's at the outside of the arena at this prior to Look upon Me and Despair. But once he falls, he stands up in the center and continues to face the direction he fell. Kefka's left foot is supposed to be black, his right foot white, so there's also something pictured wrong with the feet it seems. Are the feet facing the wrong direction relative to where his face icon is shown or are they flipped? Which way is kefka facing in the example?
You are correct "Kefka's at the outside of the arena at this prior to Look upon Me and Despair" and that is relative north
You need to dodge Look upon Me (Line aoe AKA Kefka's funny WWE move) and you now know where the supports and DPS should stack based on that line AOE

"Are the feet facing the wrong direction relative to where his face icon is shown or are they flipped? Which way is kefka facing in the example?"
Yeah while the feet are in the correct location, whoever made it didn't bother to make the feet pretty or faced the way they do ingame. But considering you don't really interact with them in any real capacity I think it's fine but it should probably be fixed for clarity
The dogs are spun.
lol no matter how many comments you manage to get removed from here with mass reporting tactics, it's not gonna change the fact that 99% of PF is still doing old BH instead of whatever your god, Saus, is trying to push here.
If 99% of the pfs are doing the strat then what exactly is the problem with having other options for people to choose to use them? PF can do whatever they want and they appear to be doing so. So whats the point of coming here and complaining about options that certain groups may want to use being included? Is it actually an issue with listing them or are you just expressing your own person issues with certain people? If its the latter may I suggest going outside from time to time?
Thank you for all the effort you all have gone through to make this.  Sorry for the people who are being excessively rude here in the comments, I hope you don't let them wear you down too much.  I don't agree with all the strats or the mitsheets, but thank you very much for making the effort to put the good strats in one place.  Thanks.
Reposting my comment since it got deleted. The lb gen from 7-1 is unnecesesary.
So, like, what the fuck is the notion on changing the standard p3 strat to dank feet when NONE OF PF was doing this to begin with. So fucking asinine
Massive appreciation for this pastebin! I know it took a toll on you from those that freaked the fuck out every time there was a change, but it was obvious the change had good intentions. The average PFer can't even read the descriptions, so don't take things personally.  As for p3 BH, it's incredibly easy to adjust to all the strats. IDK why PF threw such a massive fit over it. Thanks again for all the hard work!
I've tried both tether strats at this point and double is just significantly better, but that doesn't even matter honestly.

Whining like a baby that a strat purposed as an *option for people to use* isn't going to get you any closer to clearing the fight. You write your own pf descriptions, you pick your own strats you want to use. Case closed. End of story. It's fine to have a disagreement and decide you wanna do xyz instead of abc in the party you put up, but read the comments above and tell me these people aren't straight losers for acting this way.
Look. I appreciate the time you spent making raidplans and compiling things together into a bin. You were doing a service for us and that is always appreciated.

But listen. The way you treat us, have viewed things, and have talked down to us throughout all of this as well as in your sign off posts shows a lot of ego, assumption, and selfish perspectives.

Youre on a high horse having cleared week 2 already, now expecting PF to constantly change everything just so your future reclears for your ulti project go how you want. You want to act like this is how PF “should go” and that we should be adapting to changes every single week for the entire on-patch cycle, like PF is just your guinea pig testers for whatever forever strat you decide on. We’re in PF to clear on patch — and there’s only one more month left — not to be your little test subjects.

You don’t have any perspective on this because you already cleared. It doesn’t matter to you. You’re not the ones sitting in PF for hours just waiting for parties to fill on top of the actual pull time. If you combined the amount of time I've sat sitting in PF in addition to my pull times - I've already committed HUNDREDS of hours to this fight.

I’m tired.
I want to prog.
I want to clear.
I want to do it on patch.

I don’t want to suffer through arbitrary changes that only exist because you want to force PF into being your testbed for the SAUS discord ulti project. That’s my biggest issue.

Who gave you the authority to decide that this is what PF is for? Or that this is what PF should expect? Or that PF should disrupt their prog HALFWAY through the patch for the sake of your Ulti Project? Or that PF should be willing to constantly adapt every single week of the patch?

Last I checked, PF was made so people can get together and clear content. You’re out here treating us like we’re selfish and calling us lame for wanting to use PF for the exact reason it exists — to clear. How are we the ones in the wrong for wanting to decide what ultimately works for us to clear on patch?

You are also being INCREDIBLY disingenuous trying to act like you never wanted to be the ones to tell PF what to do - and you know it. Weeks before Kefka even released, you were posting on social media advertising the bin as what PF should be using. You had people in week 1 PFs dropping links and telling parties they should run it. And this whole time you’ve been pushing the idea that PF should be expected to change strats halfway through the patch. You can’t say you weren’t trying to tell us what to do while also criticizing us for sticking with strats that work for us. It’s contradictory at its core and shows you’re not even trying to see it from the viewpoints of people who are actually trying to clear in PF. Again - was this Bin to help people clear the content on patch or was this bin only meant to solidify a forever strat that Ulti Project wants to use forever? If it's the latter - you should have never been pushing this bin for PF to use to begin with.

Take a step back and really think about who’s actually being lame here. Is it the people grinding in an archaic PF system putting in hundreds of hours just trying to clear on patch - a system that makes every step of progress a grueling/miserable/time-consuming process? Or is it the people slowing us down at every turn, refusing to take input from the people actually using the bin in PF, because you ultimately just want to use us as a testbed to force the strats you want to keep forever for your reclears and ulti project?

You should be helping us clear now, while it’s still on patch. If you want to lock in permanent strats for your ulti project, do that later. Or at the very least, stop advertising your bin in a way that makes PF treat it like the main source of truth. Anything short of trying to help people clear right now is selfish and was never really about what PF actually needed.
holy gigabased comment, surely it's not an ego thing

direct quote i found from someone's post in naur, surely we are ragebaiting with this right /s

```
No matter what though - Whatever is decided and done.. It takes a lot of work to make something organized.
And the community is 50% rage baiters, sour pusses, and to be blunt - stupid. This % may even be higher. Read kefkabin comments.
So I give it to anyone who wants to organize and do stuff and try.
```
What if instead of pointing fingers at people and assuming peoples intentions you stopped to actually think. Maybe these options were put in the bin because people who have already cleared the fight and understand what it take to do so might feel that they could help YOU prog and YOU clear. Nobody told you that you HAVE to do these things. They were added to give people who are hard stuck in this fight an alternative that could lead to higher consistency. If you dont like the strat dont do it. If you feel like changing strats will set you back dont do it. But dont assume that these options are being pushed for whatever reason you come up with in your mind. They are purely meant to give people options cuz the fight is hard and the phase that most people are stuck on is using a less consistent strat. The world is not against you and you create your own reality
you're dumb as fuck. if every party in pf puts kefkabin, these trash strats are pushed on you. the second you have to mention old p3, hinders everyones chances at clearing the fight because of fucktards like you who say "oh its an option, you don't have to do it, we're just trying to help teehee"

these fucking idiots started a group that decides what pf does and forced the bin on everyone in pf. so don't say it isn't forced when literally everyone is using it in their pf descriptions
My bad I didnt realize having to type 2 extra words in your pf description held you back from clearing the content. Please allow me some time to reflect on this new found wisdom
yep, keep sucking on that sausage. maybe once you teeter off it, it might enlighten you
I think you are missing the point entirely. No one cares about strats changing to better ones. The issue was after you tried to change the strats and the bin, literally everyone in PF told you that they don't want that change. Yet instead of listening to them and adhering to what the general public wanted to do, you instead talked down to us calling us stupid, lame, and and framing us as if we don't know what we are talking.

No one cares about changes to strats. There were changes that people like and were widely adopted (pretty much most of the strat changes including new stomp).

The problem was when you made a change that people didn't agree with and instead of acknowledging what PF wanted, you instead talked down to us and treated us like idiots.

This again shows this sense of ego and sense of victimization you have for yourself and your group. You don't even bothering trying to understand what the issues are. You instead - again - talk to us like we are idiots and that our complaints for how you handled things was only in the interest of ulti project and not truly the interests of PF.

I'm sorry you didn't bother trying to get at the meat of what my original comment was trying to get at, and there's nothing more I can really say if you want to stick your head in the sand and refuse to listen to anybody but your own hurt feelings.
I understand the point of your message that doesnt mean i agree. You feel that alternative strats being put on a bin as an option somehow means that this new strat is being forced on you. You are allowed to feel however you want. I feel that having options is fine and thats the stance im voicing. Others have agreed that they like the alternative. What do you say to them? They shouldnt have a resource for the strat they prefer? List your pf as "old BH" if you want to do that strat. But pf isnt going to burn to the ground over alternative strats being presented that may help some groups progress through the phase more consitstently.
You are still missing the point that I am trying to make.

You for some reason think that I am saying:
- Don't ever propose better strats
- Don't ever suggest alternatives
- Don't ever update the bin

This isn't what I am saying whatsoever, and you framing my argument like this is disingenuous at best. This is once again showing you are failing to listen to anybody or understand their viewpoint in good faith.

What I am saying:
- You can propose better strats
- You can propose alternatives
- You can update the bin
- However, if PF largely disagrees with the changes and has already settled on a strat that they want to use (and is currently being universally used) or your proposals are rejected by the masses : you should revert the changes back to what PF wants to use and you certainly shouldn't post passive aggressive comments in the change log calling us lame or stupid. You DEFINITELY shouldn't be going into discords to bitch about PF and calling everyone stupid because they have chosen and settled on something you don't agree with.

If PF like a change, cool - keep the change. If PF is largely telling you that a change or alternative proposals are hindering prog and causing confusion in PF - you should listen to them in good faith. If PF fully rejects your changes/proposals and has fully settled on a strat - suck it up and have the bin reflect that.

I don't know why you have this victim framing of wanting to think everybody is adverse to better things. It's not that people are adverse to better things - they always have and always will adopt strats if it actually helps prog. However, if people are seeing that a change is ACTIVELY hindering their prog and largely slowing down PF's attempts to clear content on patch - you should listen to them and bite the bullet to do what they want.

And you can see this with how PF largely adopted 80% of the changes that have been made to the bin over the lifetime of it. If PF didn't want to use any of the changes or didn't like any of the changes, they would still be using all day 1 strats - but they aren't and you know they aren't.

You're not the ones having to clear this content in PF. You're not the ones seeing first-hand what changes are doing to progress of PF. The people in PF are the ones that experience and see that. They are the ones that know which things are working and what is making things worse.

Again, you are wanting to put up a wall of communication between the bin and PF where the communication only passes through one way. If you want a bin to be the single source of truth and a bin has universally been accepted as the single source of truth - then communication needs to be a two-way street, otherwise it should have never been a PF bin to begin with because PF's opinions are entirely kept out of the conversation.

You have been and are still looking at things only through the lens of your own assumptions of how PF should function and entirely rejecting what general playerbase that is ACTUALLY proging the fight in PF thinks. You should take a step back and think about what that says about your true intentions behind things are - because I don't see how anyone can think of themselves as wanting to "help" PF when they ultimately refuse to listen to PF at all.
I have been strict with not commenting on the comments in this bin for my own sanity.
However, since you really took the time to express yourself in a respectful manner and some of what you wrote - I want to address.

To make myself clear - I am the person who owns the bin, presses edit, presses save, and also writes the changelog.
I am not the original leader of the project, I am not the deciding vote.
Originally I was supposed to be uninvolved with strat decisions.
My role in this project was to make the mit-sheet (mad mitty) and paste stuff in here once the strat people decided.

The letter by the creators was written by me but from a viewpoint of committy.
What I type here in this comment is purely from my perspective and my side and as an individual.

Due to the difficulty of the ultimate - the plans and leadership for this got skewed and delayed (I wrote this in the letter).
I stepped up temporarily as a guide to help navigate in the early days of the project.
Once again, my role in this project was a mit-sheet maker and pretty hands off with strat discussion.

The people who created this project and put the time into helping PF, I personally didn't want to go to waste.
The people of committy are really good people with good intentions and great players who want PF to succeed.
I did the best I could as a person who wasn't supposed to be in this position.
And I did it so that the project wouldn't die before it began.

I am a flawed human who really likes to make everyone happy and I do think it is why I do not make a good leader.
It is impossible to make everyone happy.. But what is not impossible is being respectful and considerate of everyone.

With all this being said - I would like to personally apologize.
What was written in this last week for the change log was not appropriate and shouldn't have been said.
I finally let the multitude of horrendous comments as well as the frustration of stepping into a role, for way longer than I should have been, get to the best of me.
I became bitter when I should have stayed respectful and considerate.
The stress that I took on should never have been reflected back to people who did nothing.
I do not consider the psychotic or negative comments to be a reflection of the people we are trying to help.
I do hope people can forgive me for what was written during the week of the blackhole change.

In regards to your comments about Ulti Project:
I am someone who was heavily part of ulti project, however I have not been apart of it for multiple seasons now.
When I create Mitty I do not keep ulti project in mind - however ulti project members are part of my group that creates it.
While I get my first clear with my static - I do PF and help PF a lot.
I do not know the struggle of putting countless hours into PF for your prog and first clear - so I will not say I understand your pain.
However, I have close friends and part of groups that I am close to that have people just like you.
I listen and value their opinions and complaints in anything I create and participate in.
Once I clear, I consistently help a multitude of prog parties - including early prog.
I do not typically join duty complete parties and this goes for all ultimates.
My joy comes from helping and being 1 consistent person so the progger(s) has a higher chance of moving forward.
I also just genuinely enjoy playing the game and helping players specifically understanding mechanics or healing questions.

While you may think the changes on this bin were for ulti projects gain - I ensured that PF did not have to make any changes while providing options for them based on conversations that took place in Committy.
I do understand how annoying things can be when options are presented after PF is set with what they are using.
It does cause confusion, unnecessary wipes, and a divide in PF - especially if lack of communication happens.
But in an attempt to make all parties happy (keeping in mind pf and committy) - the options were added.
Please understand the group making decisions.. not all of them participate in ulti project nor are they part of it.
Saying that changes or options are presented solely for the fact of ulti project is a mischaracterization of what happened.

Unfortunately because of lack of some things the conversation regarding blackholes took too long to progress and fell out of the window for PF to consider change, in my own personal opinion. At this time - leadership either did not exist or changed as I had stepped back.
I believe if the options that were presented were done so in a reasonable time - none of this explosion would have happened.
I do hope in future cases should a project like this occur again, things are done in a reasonable timeframe and presented better.

Do I personally believe double tether and SDA are better?
My opinion is I do believe double tether is a better strat than what PF uses.
But I also believe what PF uses is fine as well.
Do I think PF should change because it would help prog p3 quicker for new players? Yes.
Do I think PF should change now? I believe the window of opportunity closed.
The example of me practicing what I preach above is the choice of Forsaken.
The Forsaken strat committy chose as better was south adjust - I made a mistake and presented kroxy over south adjust.
Because of my mistake, and still being in the guide role at this point - Kroxy stayed and I did not swap it back due to the window of opportunity being closed. The options were removed and PF solidified.

The personal note at the end of the letter was written by me and my view.
I wish PF was more adapt to change and didn't solidify so quickly.
What is considered quickly? That is an opinion of different people and possibly based on difficulty of the ultimate.
I can understand the mindset out there of "I've been progging 100 hours with this strat I don't want to go back."
But please consider the prog to get to where you were may be cut in half if an open mind and change was allowed.

This ultimate was the fastest growing ultimate in terms of resources from sims, to guides, raidplans, etc.
There is evidence of this through data collectors should you ever wish to find this information.
This was not something taken into consideration when the project started and was something we were attempting to adapt to.

I think I have addressed most of what I wanted to in your comment.
I once again want to apologize for my role personally in this.
Should I had forced myself to do a bit better in role I was not supposed to be in..
I could have potentially caused a little less friction and a little less hurt.

I will most likely not reply to anymore comments - but please know I do read a good majority of them.

In any and all future I hope to do better for players should I decide to participate in anything.

Thank you for reading. Please enjoy Kefka Ultimate.
nah you're full of shit just like everyone else trying to defend stupid changes. adding options only adds more confusion in pf.
I appreciate your response. Disregard whoever this other person is commenting cause they are being disrespectful.

And listen I'm 100% on board with the BH strats being better - I never argued that. In fact, I agree whole heartedly that they are better - especially double tether which I think objectively fixes a ton of things. But I tried these in PF - and PF couldn't handle them. That entire day was lost with prog because nobody was on the same page about what strat was what and who was doing what. At the end of the day, it was a fact that objectively more prog was being hit just using the old strat.

What also made this worse was the lack of PF parties that exist at p4 and beyond. It already takes 4+ hours for a party to fill in PF on average and that party typically only lasts for 5-10 pulls at most before you have to repeat the whole process again. Splitting PF with 3 different strats this late in the stage would've only tripled the amount of time it took for PFs to fill and would've lead to 1-2 weeks of lost prog at a minimum for people to adjust. With only 4 weeks before next patch - this just isn't something that should be done when a strat is working for the vast majority of players who are actually getting close to clearing - *even* if the strats are objectively better (which I again agree that they are).

Again it's not that  "I've been progging 100 hours with this strat I don't want to go back."

It's "If this change is made, it will not just be going back but potentially risking my entire likelihood of clearing because it will split PF and cause confusion among parties"

I am fine with adjusting/changing/etc. for better strats. However, BH was a mechanic that PF has largely struggled with and are rarely consistent with. And, from my experience, the main reasons I saw with people wiping parties in PF was not due to the reasons that the strats were trying to solve - they were due to sheer lack of execution and understanding of the mechanic. This was a mechanic that largely would've have suffered by adding additional strats - because the basic fundamentals people were largely failing at executing would have been exponentially amplified if multiple competing ways to solve it were thrown in the mix. The amount of parties that I got into the past few days that didn't read PF descrip and then go "o wait...what strats are we doing? O the Mit sheet change? What are we doing? Send me a link, give me a second to review it" and that the next 2 hours is spent wiping to the beginning of black hole with a bunch of "o shit sorry muscle memory kicked in and I was doing the old strat again"

Again - when yall changed to stomp to use the new N/S stomp - most everyone I know loved it and it has been widely adopted among the PF. This illustrates people are fine with change if they deem it as something that helps prog.

The issue was specifically with BH with the things I mentioned above. It's easily the hardest pain point of the entire fight for pf - even worse than forsaken. And for this reason people were abject to making changes to it.

While yes people largely voiced opinions in a negative, disrespectful way - the crux of what they were getting at was what I am saying here but that they largely weren't able to communicate that in a healthy manner. If enough people are complaining about something it's again not due to people not wanting a better strat - it's that it's been proven to stall their progress entirely - which again, at the mid point of a patch is not something anyone wants to deal with. Most PFers who are at p3 and beyond are trying to clear on patch. They aren't viewing things in a "this fight is around forever, I can do it whenever". If that were the case, they wouldn't be sitting in PF nonstop trying to clear before the end of july.

It's a well known fact that people only become vocal about things when they go wrong - it's much more rare for someone to voice things when things are going smoothly and they are happy about something. For every change where people voiced negative opinions, think about all the times people didn't say anything about a specific change - that should clue you into that most people are fine with change if it actually helps to accelerate their prog from the point at which it's at now and the trade offs of relearning a strat outweigh the prog loss. Unfortunately, changing BH would've have been an amount of prog loss that just wasn't worth it to relearn a new strat because again BH has been the real pain point for PF - atleast from my experience.

Ill end all of this with saying I do appreciate you and everyone else that took the time to offer us resources that would help us and to compile things together in this way. I really do not want to minimize the efforts you all have put into this or detract away from the idea that I am not thankful - I am, and I truly mean that.

I just think in the future, there needs to be a more accepting line of communication with PF and there needs to be some sort of way that we can achieve trying new strats while also listening to PF and accepting the things that they settle on - even if they are worse strats. For better or for worse, at the end of the day "better" is relative and most of PF is going to see things differently from how you and the committy sees things. And even someone like me who thinks the strats were "better", I also am one of one the ones that believes it would have slowed my prog far more than it would have helped it because I had experienced how it wrecked PF for several days and and I basically lost entire days worth of prog because of it.

Anyways, thank you again for your response and for the things you have done, even if we do not see eye to eye. I hope everyone can come away from all of this learning things that will help communication on both ends and I hope in the future things can be handled in ways that works for everyone.
It's simple. The strats I used in PF worked. All the P1, P2 or P3 wipes weren't a faulty strat. It was just bad gameplay. It's why the strats solidified quicky because people progged past them quickly. That is a sign of a good strategy.
People swtiched to freaky arrows cause the arrows were bugged. People who did freaky didn't run into any problems. Arrows got fixed, people went back to normal arrows. As it should be. Because the strat works.
Again, why go back and reprog a part of the fight when it works perfectly? A minor adjustment like N/S for stomps doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things cause you could technically do the old strat simultaneously and the execution of the mechanics would still work.

The ulti project can make their own training grounds where all the people prog together with the ulti project strats if they want. PF is not a place for you to get to phase 5 and then get a worthless saus clear.
The Ulti project has actively lead to the destruction of Partyfinder. Because now it's all c41 culture instead of people sticking together. Oh I saw enrage I guess I get a c41. I saw p5 i guess i sign up for saus. Things i've seen people saying in partyfinder before they weren't seen again. They are actively vanishing of the pool of players which makes waiting agonizing.

Do you think waiting in PF for 5 hours is fun for it to fill? Just for it to blow up after a few pulls because nobody wants to ride it out together?

The ulti project has harmed the Community more than it has ever helped it. It helped the individuals ego but it absolutely annihilated any sense of needing to work together to get a clear. I hope you are happy, and i'm sure Saus is happy from the pennies he will earn on his stream actively destroying the raiding scene in this game.
I think the bigger issue isn't whatever you were trying to put together.  It's that it's week 4 and things have solidified.  People are like 40-60 hours into the fight right now and don't want to reprog the thing they JUST got consistent.  It's the same issue with Hector putting forth the BC strat for rep 2.  Really the changes this late are only a really good indicator for those who are slower to prog than others.  My reclears for M12S were all DN because I knew they were early clearers.  It's the same with this when we're swapping positions for stomps, or doing any other minor strat changes like that.

If we really wanted a big strat change to make things "better", it would be static spots for blackhole and ignore debuffs on BOA.  We'd also most likely move some of the P3 invulns around.

I know you didn't do any of the changes maliciously, but we all know when a bin is posted, PF will just accept it as fact.  Even easier for them to accept if it says "uptime braindead extra cheese left beef" in it.
Better strats are always worth the reprog. There's no reason to stick to what you originally did because they 'already invested so much time.' If a person doesn't want to invest the time in progging strats that might change, they have two choices.. 1. WAIT, the strats will solidify and progging will be easier when all the documenation is finalized; or 2. Make a static and do whatever you want. If people want to start day 1 without a static, then they need to be ready to adapt.

The fact that people forget how to be decent human beings on the internet is a problem that won't resolve itself and it's something you can't solve.

Even if the changes were a little frustrating, and even if the waymarks are bad (seriously, a small change fixes everything), and the arrows didn't work right.. no one is yelling at Yoshi-P for that btw.. in the end we're all here to conquer a made up fight in a game that won't exist in 30 years.

Thank you, and the committy, for putting yourself out there for the good of the raiding community.
I'm sorry some people don't know how to treat others.
Literally all of the issue was the changes to shit that didn't need changing on week 4.  Tanks have free mit to use for last tether.  People dying to random shit or not being able to grab tethers literally is just something about the phase that requires reps.  These aren't strat issues.
I made a plugin for P4 to help reduce macro bloat and make it easier to read macro resolution text.

https://github.com/snazzysosnazzy/SnazzyP4

Hope this helps everyone in P4