BURDEN

[02:24am] Scottzar: Why is there no reverse Full Buy In?
[02:24am] Metool: because there aren't enough unique magic items that don't conflict.
[02:24am] Metool: That and if there were it'd be a crazy versatile build
[02:25am] Metool: your GM would have to put more effort into making sure you didn't have every single tool for everything
[02:25am] You left the chat by being disconnected from the server.

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[02:26am] ChanServ: (#Legend) Welcome to the Legend Gaming System chat room.
[02:26am] Pony: $seen metool
[02:26am] HermesBot: Pony: metool was last seen in #Legend 7 minutes and 1 second ago: <Metool> magic missile makes you choose a single missile to stack damage on
[02:26am] Pony: oh
[02:26am] Pony: [02:24am] Scottzar: Why is there no reverse Full Buy In?
[02:26am] Pony: [02:24am] Metool: because there aren't enough unique magic items that don't conflict.
[02:26am] Pony: [02:24am] Metool: That and if there were it'd be a crazy versatile build
[02:26am] Pony: [02:25am] Metool: your GM would have to put more effort into making sure you didn't have every single tool for everything
[02:27am] • Slayah summed that up aready
[02:27am] Pony: right
[02:27am] Pony: well fuck you I disconnected
[02:27am] Scottzar: Not very well, slayah
[02:27am] Slayah: well fuck you, you're obtuse
[02:27am] Scottzar: The thing I'm seeing here is people are admitting Full BI is shit because items are too powerful
[02:28am] Slayah: FBI is not shit
[02:28am] Pony: no
[02:28am] Pony: it is not shit
[02:28am] Scottzar: FBI is based on the assumption that: almost all your items = a track's worth of power
[02:29am] Scottzar: If this is true, it would work in both directions (actually, items would be weaker due to conflict)
[02:29am] Pony: well they would be but that's a given!
[02:30am] Pony: that... I stated
[02:30am] Pony: "because there aren't enough unique magic items that don't conflict."
[02:30am] Pony: it's just
[02:30am] Pony: off
[02:30am] Scottzar: But there are
[02:30am] Pony: it's not even over powered or under powered
[02:30am] Scottzar: The only weakness is you can't have two artifact swords
[02:30am] Pony: it's... powered in a manner the system is meant to handle
[02:30am] Pony: is not*
[02:31am] Scottzar: That's a very vague excuse
[02:31am] Scottzar: Mind to give an example?
[02:32am] Pony: I want you to build an all-items character and submit him to the forum
[02:32am] Pony: I'm too tired to argue this shit
[02:32am] Pony: maybe you're right
[02:32am] Pony: I'm just triyng to provide a bloody counterpoint
[02:33am] Scottzar: There aren't enough published items to run with more than 2 tracks worth of items
[02:33am] Slayah: It would be possible. Just stupid overall.
[02:33am] Pony: well then use two tracks worth of items
[02:34am] Pony: throw in some greater items of feats if you can
[02:34am] Wrex ([email protected]) left the chat room. (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[02:37am] Scottzar: Am I making it to show it is too powerful, or what?
[02:38am] Slayah: you're the one complaining. prove your point
[02:39am] Scottzar: ... what?
[02:39am] Scottzar: My point is that there is no reason not to have reverse FBI
[02:39am] Slayah: Prove it
[02:40am] Scottzar: That makes no sense
[02:40am] Slayah: You have made a statement.
[02:40am] Slayah: Show your work
[02:41am] Scottzar: You can't prove my statement with a build
[02:41am] Slayah: Why not?
[02:41am] Scottzar: Because my statement is in line with the theory of Legend
[02:42am] Scottzar: I.E. if FBI is equivalent to standard, therefore the reverse must hold true because it is the same change
[02:42am] Slayah: If you can't show your work you'll never get a nobel prize
[02:42am] Scottzar: A=A'
[02:42am] Scottzar: It's a shame I don't work in science, then
[02:42am] Slayah: I think it's a very good thing.
[02:42am] Scottzar: Slayah: my statement is inline with the design logic
[02:43am] Pony: Scottzar: so have a playtest
[02:43am] Scottzar: You are saying either A: this is not true, or B: this design logic is false
[02:43am] Slayah: "If you can't prove P=nP then obviously it doesn't! Where's my grant money?"
[02:43am] Slayah: Nice theory Scottzar, where's the practice.
[02:43am] Scottzar: Lol slayah
[02:44am] Scottzar: I don't need to defend the game theory
[02:44am] Slayah: Any trial not by fire is going to die because of smoke inhalation
[02:44am] Scottzar: It's the game theory
[02:44am] Slayah: That it is.
[02:45am] Scottzar: The burden of proof has always been on you to prove the game is incorrectly designed
[02:45am] Scottzar: Because you never questioned that my statement is inline with the game theory
[02:45am] Slayah: And since the game theory works with the game mechanics, obviously it works. It's been tested.
[02:45am] Slayah: Wait what
[02:45am] Slayah: did you just say the burden of proof is on us?
[02:45am] Slayah: hahahaha
[02:45am] Scottzar: It always was
[02:45am] Scottzar: You tried to shift it by telling me to make a build
[02:45am] Slayah: You obviously have some issues
[02:46am] Scottzar: But you're saying that the items are imbalanced
[02:46am] Slayah: I never said items were imbalanced
[02:46am] Slayah: Items are very good
[02:46am] Slayah: Tracks are very good
[02:46am] Slayah: Most things in Legend are very good
[02:46am] Scottzar: Then what, exactly, is the issue with reverse FBI? Or are you shifting the goalposts again?
[02:47am] Slayah: But if you want to put it in the PDF, having theb [Very Good] tag everywhere would increase the size by about 50%
[02:47am] Slayah: You're saying reverse FBI is a legitimate idea
[02:47am] Slayah: Prove it.
[02:47am] Scottzar: I did
[02:47am] Scottzar: Via theory
[02:47am] Slayah: No you haven't
[02:48am] Slayah: oh god
[02:48am] Slayah: hjvcgbk,jvhbfchkjb
[02:48am] Scottzar: Legend says: FBI is the same power as non FBI
[02:48am] Slayah: laughter ensue
[02:48am] Scottzar: Logic says: Iterating an operation with the same outcome does not change the outcome
[02:48am] Slayah: My good sir, you have caused a crochety old man great mirth, thank you
[02:49am] Scottzar: Logically, Legend therefore says: non FBI is the same power as reverse FBI
[02:49am] Scottzar: You're argument so far has been flaming and trying to put the burden of proof on me
[02:50am] Slayah: Why should anyone but you have to go about proving your theories
[02:50am] Scottzar: Intuitively, I am correct. This means you are saying there is a factor I am not considering. What is it?
[02:50am] Scottzar: >My theories
[02:50am] Scottzar: Extrapolation =/= theory
[02:50am] Slayah: a mathematician doesn't just say "BITCHES disprove this!"
[02:51am] Slayah: extrapolating on a theory is most theories
[02:51am] Scottzar: 1/10 more flaming
[02:51am] Slayah: it's called science
[02:51am] Scottzar: Extrapolation on a theory with an unknown included is science
[02:51am] Slayah: let me find you something on the internet, it may take a minute
[02:51am] Scottzar: Lol
[02:51am] Scottzar: So you're going off on a tangent to try and avoid the arguement?
[02:51am] MoonWolf__: Scottzar, no thats just speculation, to make it science you ahve to go out and Test it.
[02:52am] Scottzar: Well yes
[02:52am] Scottzar: I lost some of that in the rephrasing
[02:52am] Slayah: http://www.damninteresting.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/feynman-science-damn-interesting-911x768.jpg
[02:52am] Slayah: I put to you dearest Scottzar: Experiment
[02:52am] Slayah: Then get back to us
[02:53am] Scottzar: Once again: trying to shift the burden of proof
[02:53am] • Slayah is making that face right now
[02:53am] Scottzar: Also the image is broken
[02:53am] Scottzar ([email protected]) left the chat room. (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[02:53am] Slayah: The burden of preoof always, and forever shall be, your friend. Er, I mean on the theorizer
[02:53am] Scottzar ([email protected]) joined the chat room.
[02:53am] • Slayah puts spock back in his closet
[02:53am] Slayah: The burden of preoof always, and forever shall be, your friend. Er, I mean on the theorizer
[02:54am] Slayah: http://www.rockettshirts.com/Images/icons/NR5/disagree_5.jpg
[02:54am] Slayah: http://www.centerforinquiry.net/uploads/on_campus_blog/UNIFI_Feynman.jpg
[02:54am] Slayah: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BEAtQNkCIAAWKTh.jpg
[02:54am] Scottzar: You realise that image is basically saying you are wrong
[02:55am] Slayah: I will Feynman you until you stop with the wrong
[02:55am] Scottzar: Legend IS tested
[02:55am] Slayah: stop it
[02:55am] Slayah: Yes
[02:55am] Scottzar: A=A'
[02:55am] Slayah: Yes it is
[02:55am] Scottzar: Therefore, A = A' = A''
[02:55am] Slayah: Your derivation?
[02:55am] Slayah: It has not been tested
[02:55am] Slayah: So, start
[02:55am] Slayah: go
[02:55am] Scottzar: Lol slayah
[02:56am] Scottzar: Once again, trying to throw the burden of proof at me because you can't argue properly
[02:56am] Slayah: If you come back having played with your thing I'll pat you on the back
[02:56am] Slayah: Until then
[02:56am] Slayah: Shut up, I'm going to sleep
[02:56am] Scottzar: >You'll pat me on the back
[02:56am] Pony: I'm inclined to agree with him. Legend as written has been tested, but you're proposing something we have no information on.
[02:57am] Scottzar: Not really
[02:57am] Scottzar: Take FBI as the base
[02:57am] Scottzar: Adding the items is the alteration
[02:57am] Scottzar: Does repeating this alteration cause a change?
[02:58am] Slayah: $note Slayah Slayah:  "You're saying reverse FBI is a legitimate idea. Prove it." Scottzar: "I did. Via theory"
[02:58am] HermesBot: Slayah: The operation succeeded.
[02:58am] HermesBot: Slayah: Sent just now: <Slayah> Slayah: You're saying reverse FBI is a legitimate idea. Prove it. Scottzar: I did. Via theory
[02:58am] Slayah: Damn you hermes
[02:58am] Slayah is now known as Slay.
[02:58am] Slay: $note Slayah Slayah:  "You're saying reverse FBI is a legitimate idea. Prove it." Scottzar: "I did. Via theory"
[02:58am] HermesBot: Slay: The operation succeeded.
[02:58am] Slay: Night
[02:58am] Slay is now known as Slayah.
[02:58am] Scottzar: If F(x) = x, F(F(x))
[02:58am] Slayah (~chatzilla@CPE687f749f6d37-CM00080da43848.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left the chat room. (Read error: EOF from client)
[02:58am] Scottzar: Would still = x