API tools faq
paste
Zuki

Roles and Survival

Zuki
Mar 10th, 2014
123
0
Never
Add comment
Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
text 12.94 KB | None | 0 0
raw download clone embed print report
  1. 3:15:47 PM) Topic for #replayvalue set by theHost at 12:33:26 PM on 2/23/2014
  2. (3:16:30 PM) Keleviel: Like, Vriska would get Void or Law or Time, and Bane or Maid or something, according to RV, but that's not how she is
  3. (3:19:09 PM) Ishtadaal: My characters would have gotten drastically different roles, for their Natives, if that was the case. Less-so with rerolling but I was told that rolling explicitly doesn't break a person, and I consider your identity and personality to be integral to you?
  4. (3:19:38 PM) Keleviel: Yeah, we are definitely working off of different interpretations
  5. (3:20:05 PM) Ishtadaal: It's why I run the approach of "if you want to really fuck a character up, another character's the best person to do that".
  6. (3:21:12 PM) Ishtadaal: Were you not told "The game won't assign a role a person can't fulfill / roles won't break people" etc? Just because something is difficult to do / overcome doesn't mean you've got to be broken in or /changed/ to accept it.
  7. (3:21:30 PM) Keleviel: No, I wasn't told that
  8. (3:22:02 PM) Rave: i wasn't told that either?
  9. (3:22:26 PM) Ishtadaal: Hm. That's something I am 99% certain was pretty explicitly told when I was asking about how roles worked.
  10. (3:22:33 PM) Ishtadaal: Or, well.
  11. (3:22:34 PM) Krat: So far as I know, that's not part of the welcome spiel.
  12. (3:22:40 PM) Ishtadaal: "Shouldn't", not "Don't".
  13. (3:24:46 PM) OJ: Ish, I /do/ agree with you, I'd just like to know where you got that notion.
  14. (3:24:56 PM) Ishtadaal: I asked a lot
  15. (3:25:01 PM) Ishtadaal: a lot a lot a lot
  16. (3:25:13 PM) Ishtadaal: of questions to a bunch of people when I was considering joining this community
  17. (3:25:53 PM) OJ: So you're not entirely sure you /can/ localize 'who told you that', then? That's cool. I was curious.
  18. (3:26:10 PM) Ishtadaal: I think you'd have been one of the people I talked with?
  19. (3:26:24 PM) OJ: Possibly? I don't remember.
  20. (3:26:28 PM) Ishtadaal: But I was piecing together an aggregate view of the setting.
  21. (3:26:44 PM) Ishtadaal: Because, well. I get really sensitive about topics of abuse and while this setting is a depressive torturous murdergame I have a /lot/ of trouble with, emotionally.
  22. (3:26:59 PM) Ishtadaal: "with abuse in specific"
  23. (3:27:06 PM) Ishtadaal: not with,
  24. (3:27:08 PM) ***OJ hugs
  25. (3:27:27 PM) Ishtadaal: So I needed to make sure this was a setting that wouldn't necessarily force me to constantly and consistently abuse my characters
  26. (3:27:30 PM) OJ: I do run /characters/ who think their roles will break them, but /I/ don't make roles that will break them.
  27. (3:27:44 PM) Ishtadaal: ^^^^^ very important distinction, there
  28. (3:27:58 PM) OJ: If they do break it's largely on chance that isn't necessarily integral to their roles
  29. (3:28:09 PM) Ishtadaal: Also, people like Lokkie wouldn't survive if role-dodging was impossible / if people were absolutely forced to change
  30. (3:28:13 PM) OJ: (see also: Aelf and the Tac Folly - Follies usually aren't like that)
  31. (3:28:31 PM) Ishtadaal: And I strongly feel that forcing people to change integral parts of themselves is
  32. (3:28:47 PM) Ishtadaal: fundamentally different from giving someone a role to help them deal with a hangup of theirs
  33. (3:29:04 PM) Ishtadaal: The former falls into personality molding / erasure which is
  34. (3:29:06 PM) Ishtadaal: like
  35. (3:29:20 PM) Rave: can i request that this be moved to extdis because honestly i don't really have the energy to deal with this
  36. (3:29:40 PM) OJ: hMM
  37. (3:29:42 PM) OJ: Okay
  38. (3:30:01 PM) Keleviel: And I'd like to stay and continue, but I have to go
  39. (3:30:08 PM) Keleviel: See you all later
  40. (3:30:10 PM) ***Rave smooches kel
  41. (3:30:13 PM) Ishtadaal: Seeya
  42. (3:30:14 PM) Rave: bye!
  43. (3:30:19 PM) Ishtadaal: By the way, Rave?
  44. (3:30:39 PM) Ishtadaal: Calling it "dealing" is not very supportive language when someone's talking about insecurities
  45. (3:30:40 PM) Keleviel left the room (quit: Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client).
  46. (3:30:41 PM) Zuki: Take care
  47. (3:31:04 PM) Rave: yes well unfortunately i don't have the energy to have anything to do with this
  48. (3:31:07 PM) OJ: Could you suggest a different word, then?
  49. (3:31:07 PM) Ishtadaal: And I am totally calling you out on it because that sort of thing makes me uncomfortable talking around you
  50. (3:31:12 PM) Ishtadaal: Pleas e do
  51. (3:31:14 PM) Ishtadaal left the room.
  52. (3:31:18 PM) Rave left the room.
  53. (3:31:23 PM) OJ: oh
  54. (3:31:24 PM) OJ: glorious
  55. (3:31:35 PM) Krat: so
  56. (3:31:39 PM) Krat: how bout that weather
  57. (3:31:45 PM) OJ: um
  58. (3:31:47 PM) OJ: it's very weather-y?
  59. (3:31:50 PM) Krat: yup
  60. (3:31:51 PM) Krat: sure is
  61. (3:32:01 PM) Krat: good eye, OJ
  62. (3:32:32 PM) Zuki: Can I ask for more information about what just happened.
  63. (3:33:16 PM) Krat: I really... don't think we have it, Zuki. Shit escalated quick.
  64. (3:35:01 PM) OJ: The backscroll appears to /be/ the information about what just happened.
  65. (3:35:04 PM) Krat: Kel and Ish were going at it when you logged in, but it was just different views of the setting, and they were very civil about it.
  66.  
  67.  
  68. (3:29:45 PM) Ishtadaal: 13:28 Ishtadaal And I strongly feel that forcing people to change integral parts of themselves is 13:28 Ishtadaal fundamentally different from giving someone a role to help them deal with a hangup of theirs 13:29 Ishtadaal The former falls into personality molding / erasure which is 13:29 Ishtadaal like
  69. (3:30:01 PM) Ishtadaal: i-do-not-have-words levels of i-don't-even-have-a-word-for-the-kind-of-Nope-it-is
  70. (3:30:40 PM) Keleviel left the room (quit: Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client).
  71. (3:32:39 PM) Krat: It does deepen the horror of the setting, but I've always seen it as exceptionally bleak and anti-person, so I guess it doesn't surprise me too much that people would see that as a valid way to run it?
  72. (3:35:34 PM) Ishtadaal: I figured that part of the setting was because a lot of the characters are fucked in the head enough to subconsciously propogate the idea
  73. (3:35:42 PM) Ishtadaal: Not that the Game itself is inherently malicious?
  74. (3:35:45 PM) Ishtadaal: If
  75. (3:35:46 PM) Ishtadaal: that makes sense
  76. (3:35:51 PM) Krat: That definitely makes sense.
  77. (3:35:53 PM) Ishtadaal: I dunno I'm kind of shaking rn
  78. (3:35:55 PM) Zuki: 've tended to assume that 'There's always a way out, somehow' and that the game is not inherently or intentionally malicious.
  79. (3:36:01 PM) Krat: :\ 'm sorry, Ish
  80. (3:36:16 PM) Krat: I personally never attributed too much moral agency to the game
  81. (3:36:29 PM) Krat: it's not trying to fuck you over but it's like a RL roguelike
  82. (3:36:37 PM) Krat: sometimes the illithid spawns two rooms over and you're just hosed
  83. (3:36:43 PM) Ishtadaal: mmhmm
  84. (3:37:06 PM) Ishtadaal: But at the same time it doesn't make sense that role assignment won't prevent you from rolling something you can't work with
  85. (3:37:08 PM) skippingCobb: (may I make a marker to say things later but gonna eat something first because I need food?)
  86. (3:37:14 PM) Ishtadaal: It means the session's gonna fail
  87. (3:37:45 PM) Ishtadaal: (maybe-probably-unless-it's-about-me-specifically-or-my-emotional-state-personally)
  88. (3:38:16 PM) Krat: It's got certain presets, obviously, and the game's reasonably sophisticated. It makes sense that it wouldn't set a session up to fail if it was running as intended.
  89. (3:39:50 PM) Krat: Always spawn a Time, always spawn a Space player are the two most readily apparent presets in the game that exist, but it's reasonable to assume there are certain failsafes beyond that to prevent a straight auto-loss in session.
  90. (3:40:05 PM) skippingCobb: (it's not, it's topic-related because I have thoughts about it)
  91. (3:41:05 PM) ***Zuki nods at Krat. Ross is in a session with no Time or Space, which was previously thought impossible/unwinnable. Then they found...sort of a half-sized, not-quite-functioning Land in the wrong place in the Medium. But it's got X and Y and Frogs, it's obviously /meant/ to be a Space planet. So...they'll be able to kludge something.
  92. (3:41:30 PM) Ishtadaal: That made me wonder if the planet wasn't one of those from
  93. (3:41:35 PM) Ishtadaal: What's that one Replaying mechanism
  94. (3:41:44 PM) Ishtadaal: Where you find a machine / bed / teleporter thing in the Veil
  95. (3:41:49 PM) OJ: Replay Bed
  96. (3:41:53 PM) Ishtadaal: That thing yes
  97. (3:41:57 PM) Zuki: Hah, like it /stole/ somebody's planet?
  98. (3:42:11 PM) Ishtadaal: No, like
  99. (3:42:15 PM) Ishtadaal: someone who had high levels of corruption
  100. (3:42:22 PM) Ishtadaal: "Can't pass through the door" levels of corruption
  101. (3:42:25 PM) Ishtadaal: tried to use it
  102. (3:42:35 PM) Ishtadaal: And didn't have enough 'them' left over to survive the reboot
  103. (3:42:41 PM) OJ: Ooooh, interesting!
  104. (3:42:46 PM) Ishtadaal: So you got a half-dead planet for someone that never actually spawned
  105. (3:42:55 PM) Ishtadaal: Because there wasn't enough person left to spawn
  106. (3:44:00 PM) Zuki: Interesting. So /someone/ could fix the problem.
  107. (3:44:42 PM) Zuki: I kind of like this. I shall c/p it to Muss and Curls and Impern and see if we want to do anything with it. I mostly just wanted a spooky possibly-corrupted planet out in the middle of nowhere, because I was on a Night Vale kick and I wanted to look for opportuities to mess with Ross's head using Sound.
  108. (3:44:42 PM) Zuki: And then there are /lots/ of examples of outside interference coming in to fix a session: in RV, in Homestuck, alluded to in Glitch FAQ.
  109. (3:44:58 PM) Zuki: As for Class/Role assigment...
  110. (3:48:07 PM) Ishtadaal: ...are you going to finish that thought?
  111. (3:48:13 PM) Ishtadaal: Or just trying to get people to talk about that?
  112. (3:48:15 PM) Zuki: yes but I'm typing.
  113. (3:48:21 PM) Ishtadaal: A'ight.
  114. (3:50:12 PM) Zuki: I tend to assume, and to write, 'There's always a way out.' Class/Role is more like convincing somebody that you've written a good enough essay/improvised a good enough sketch, and that's got a lot of wiggle room. Something completely antithetical to my character is probably not as fun to roleplay as something they really *don't* want to do, but gotta.
  115. (3:55:09 PM) Zuki: I don't think I've ever given a character a role that was 'impossible' for them to complete.
  116. (3:58:00 PM) Krat: I can't think of too many characters or situations where some flexing in interpretation of a given role wouldn't allow a successful-albeit-difficult completion of a session.
  117. (3:59:33 PM) Zuki: Aelf explicitly leaned on glitches and exploits to get through sessions when she had sub-par ARC or had a hard time with a role.
  118. (4:00:25 PM) OJ: mmhm
  119. (4:01:31 PM) OJ: Stacked clothing bonuses, sequence-breaking to get higher-tier weapons, strong NPC allies, repeatedly grinding easy interactions that granted flat exp, that kind of thing
  120. (4:02:34 PM) OJ: She was never /good/ at the roleplay thing, but she found ways around it. I assume other characters could, too, especially with a good eye and/or a strong background in gamebreaking/glitchfinding.
  121. (4:02:37 PM) Zuki: If you could do it without using aspect abilities...you probably could do it.
  122. (4:04:05 PM) OJ: I think the example I gave later of low-key gamebreaking is that, when you initiate a conversation with an important NPC, you gain a small amount of moonrep - but you can walk away and re-initiate the conversation as many times as you want, as long as they haven't given you the quest at the end of your conversation
  123. (4:04:23 PM) OJ: so you could plausibly do it hundreds of times and grind your moon reputation pretty far up, if you had the patience
  124. (4:04:36 PM) OJ: Things like that.
  125. (4:05:25 PM) OJ: It doesn't even need to be /dangerous/.
  126. (4:05:37 PM) OJ: It could just be boring and repetitive and thus why most people don't do it consistently.
  127. (4:06:14 PM) anthiena: Triele will probably be on er way to doing that sort of thing or exploiting er current role into whatever project e wants. E will facilitate whatever is asked, as well as er personal projects but in the end, e is treating the Game as er personal college. So many autodidacts and all of the stuff uploaded to Pits and the Library
  128. (4:06:34 PM) anthiena: With few things marked as off-limits and those usually because corruption
  129. (4:06:42 PM) OJ: The fact that there's a database of stuff people have gamebroken is also useful, yes.
  130. (4:15:00 PM) anthiena: Hector has found his roles useful and supportive, Ash got what he needed to survive very difficult situations and Bran needed to be reacquainted with his principals after letting them go in favor of self-justification.
  131. (4:18:01 PM) anthiena: Essentially, Bran had the furthest to go to connect to himself, as he was not being genuine and Thrall of Law actually helped him get in touch with what really matters to him and will inform plenty as he goes. He does feel uncomfortable with the concept of it, but at the same time...
  132. (4:18:37 PM) anthiena: He feels happier with himself, more fulfilled, more at peace with others and the world around him. He's more conscientious.
  133. (4:19:44 PM) anthiena: He is, admittedly the person I put the most thought into what his classpect would do for him and why it fits him.
  134. (4:20:32 PM) anthiena: Though Hector is a Guide still and shows Guide of Blood tendancies even if to Azurite thought and philosophy.
Advertisement
Add Comment
Please, Sign In to add comment
Public Pastes
We use cookies for various purposes including analytics. By continuing to use Pastebin, you agree to our use of cookies as described in the Cookies Policy.  OK, I Understand
Not a member of Pastebin yet?
Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!