The intricacies of the social system explained with Rimworld

Jan 18th, 2019
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  1. #rimworld
  2. <tubuliferous> So I've only been playing for a few days...
  3. <Fleischy> I see I see
  4. <tubuliferous> but I read an article about anger directed at Rimworld from the LGBTQ community
  5. <Fleischy> then you might just want to play vanilla for a while
  6. <tubuliferous> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking n
  7. <Fleischy> lol theyre always angry at something, overprivileged spoiled children
  8. <tubuliferous> Well, I don't know...
  9. <tubuliferous> it's kinda funny...
  10. <tubuliferous> and maybe also grimly realistic
  11. <Fleischy> rimworld is a work of art and dont let any gender bender crybaby tell you otherwise
  12. <tubuliferous> So the specific issue...
  13. <tubuliferous> and maybe this has been modified since early access...
  14. <Fleischy> rimworld is the tool that lets our inner sadistic cannibal/organ merchant/corpse eater out
  15. <tubuliferous> was basically that gay people were making colonists sad
  16. <tubuliferous> there weren't many gay characters...
  17. <Fleischy> they make me sad when they make stupid claims like that
  18. <tubuliferous> so they couldn't easily pair off...
  19. <Fleischy> they've ruined so many movies, tv shows, games because of their whining
  20. <Fleischy> i don't know why people even care about what they say
  21. <tubuliferous> and the advances of straight characters were therefore rebuffed again and again...
  22. <Fleischy> kinda realistic, isn't it
  23. <tubuliferous> right...
  24. <tubuliferous> and so the upshot...
  25. <tubuliferous> was that gay characters made colonies sad overall
  26. <Fleischy> I meaaaaaaan
  27. <Fleischy> they probably would irl
  28. <tubuliferous> and there was incentive to imprison and execute them
  29. <Fleischy> a colonist doesnt need to be gay for me to imprison and execute them
  30. <Fleischy> i do that to anyone
  31. <tubuliferous> hahaha
  32. <tubuliferous> right...
  33. <Fleischy> i'm fair like that
  34. <tubuliferous> but the point was that there was actually consistent incentive to target gays specifically
  35. <Fleischy> wah wah wah
  36. <tubuliferous> so this brings up some interesting questions...
  37. <Fleischy> they always like playing victim for no reason
  38. <tubuliferous> is there a real-world parallel?
  39. <tubuliferous> but I'm thinking...
  40. <Fleischy> probably
  41. <Fleischy> you gotta ask yourself why are all the conservative cultures even today are strongly against LGBT
  42. <tubuliferous> maybe gayness in a community is only a problem when its hidden
  43. <Fleischy> in fact most of the world is, aside from the western culture (western europe and north america)
  44. <tubuliferous> right...
  45. <tubuliferous> why does anybody care?
  46. <tubuliferous> and maybe this is it
  47. <Fleischy> it's only a problem when whiny kids keep playing the victim card when it's really a personal problem, not a sexual preference one
  48. <Fleischy> it's a fake issue
  49. <tubuliferous> maybe on some level having gay people people actually does hurt society
  50. <tubuliferous> which sounds like a terrible thing to say...
  51. <Fleischy> now hold on there hitler junior
  52. <tubuliferous> but hear me out...
  53. <tubuliferous> in the rimworld universe it would only be a problem if it wasn't obvious that a character was gay...
  54. <Fleischy> I dont think that's something that's easy to hide
  55. <Fleischy> even in survival conditions
  56. <tubuliferous> if a person was openly gay in rimworld, I'm guessing, that character wouldn't cause so much sadness
  57. <Fleischy> yeah I have a gay character in my current colony but she's one of my top skilled colonists and never causes problems
  58. <tubuliferous> the straight characters would no not to try with those gay characters
  59. <tubuliferous> I'm thinking that dynamic might have been adjusted...
  60. <tubuliferous> because of the negative press
  61. <Fleischy> rimworld has a lot of absurd mood debuffs
  62. <tubuliferous> So anyway, my thesis is...
  63. * kmaj ( has joined
  64. <tubuliferous> open gayness is better for society =D
  65. <kmaj> hmm
  66. <Fleischy> hmmm?
  67. <tubuliferous> sorry, kmaj
  68. <tubuliferous> you came in at a weird time
  69. <kmaj> understandable
  70. <Fleischy> i think kmaj can help us reach a solution
  71. <kmaj> yes splendid
  72. <Fleischy> don't you mean open gayness is better for the LGBT?
  73. <Fleischy> not necessarily for the entire society
  74. <Fleischy> do you see gay people hitting on straight people irl
  75. <tubuliferous> Long story short, Rimworld received some negative press because of an unintentional social dynamic that favored the elimination of gay Rimworld characters
  76. <Fleischy> i think the eliminations part is the fault of the players not the game
  77. <Fleischy> like the game doesnt force you to kill your own colonists
  78. <tubuliferous> Oh sure...
  79. <Fleischy> as I said, rimworld lets our inner satan out
  80. <tubuliferous> but basically it did unintentionally make gay characters undesirable to the group
  81. <tubuliferous> in Rimworld gay people actually did erode society
  82. <Fleischy> for example I like to imprison and beat the shit out of colonists that develop drug addictions
  83. <kmaj> they could have avoided the controversy by not adding gay colonists in the first place, think about it
  84. <tubuliferous> Yeah, but that's less interesting, kmaj
  85. <Fleischy> that would cause an even bigger uproar
  86. <Fleischy> think of all the modern games today that have a large playerbase
  87. <kmaj> there can't be an uproar if there's no event to trigger it
  88. <Fleischy> remember BF5
  89. <tubuliferous> I actually love that these weird little social dynamics emerge from fairly simple rules
  90. <Fleischy> you gotta have your quota of cripples gays blacks and asians or you'll get shat on
  91. <tubuliferous> but I was extrapolating to society at large...
  92. <tubuliferous> I mean real human society
  93. <kmaj> bf5 was like that because ea wanted it like that
  94. <tubuliferous> I think Rimworld might have hit on something...
  95. <kmaj> this says a lot about our society
  96. <Fleischy> well gays have never been eliminated from any human society, even the ultra conservative ones
  97. <tubuliferous> Oh, they absolutely have
  98. <kmaj> not even in chechenia
  99. <tubuliferous> People have been executed for homosexuality in particularly hardline societies
  100. <tubuliferous> and I've always been confused about why anybody cares that much
  101. <Fleischy> yes but that's only a small part
  102. <Fleischy> well it's probably just the way they behave
  103. <tubuliferous> even in less hardline societies...
  104. <tubuliferous> people seem to care about it more than they should
  105. <Fleischy> and also because they're not "part of the majority"
  106. <Fleischy> since the majority is still straight and white
  107. <tubuliferous> and the question is...why?
  108. <tubuliferous> depends on the society =D
  109. <tubuliferous> I'm guessing you're American
  110. <Fleischy> well ok i'm still mostly talking about the western world
  111. <Fleischy> indeed
  112. <tubuliferous> anyway, I'm utterly fascinated by this...
  113. <tubuliferous> of course Rimworld can't actually model the full complexity of the real human world...
  114. <Fleischy> as I said, whether it's sexuality or anything else, the majority is always disgusted at minorities, depending on what it is we're talking about, in varying degrees
  115. <tubuliferous> yet...hahaha
  116. <tubuliferous> but...
  117. <tubuliferous> maybe there are some interesting insights that shone through uninentionally
  118. <tubuliferous> *unintentionally
  119. <Fleischy> such as............
  120. <tubuliferous> Like some hints to why homosexuality is attacked
  121. <Fleischy> odd question
  122. <tubuliferous> Yeah
  123. <Fleischy> first of all, just because it's different to the majority's setting is enough to be targeted
  124. <tubuliferous> but I'm not seeing anybody asking it
  125. <tubuliferous> what is the root of anti-homosexual sentiment in society?
  126. <Fleischy> second of all it reduces birth rates which has been very important for countries in the previous centuries, it's not that important now
  127. <tubuliferous> do you think it's just an interfacing thing?
  128. <tubuliferous> I mean...
  129. <tubuliferous> people want social elements standardized to make life easier, maybe
  130. <tubuliferous> like how we all want the same electronic ports standardized...
  131. <Fleischy> thirdly it goes against the "overall assumption" as to how youre going to live your life
  132. <tubuliferous> just for simplicity
  133. <Fleischy> see in conservative societies your entire life is planned out for you by the society
  134. <Fleischy> and being gay and everything involved in that is not part of the plan
  135. <tubuliferous> I suppose that's more efficient in some ways
  136. <tubuliferous> because everybody knows what to expect
  137. <Fleischy> yes
  138. <tubuliferous> and they can talk the same social language
  139. <Fleischy> thats why everyone wants to get you to try to be "normal"
  140. <Fleischy> so that you can be predictable
  141. <Fleischy> which makes you easier to surpass
  142. <tubuliferous> I suppose the risks in such societies are due to a lack of robustness
  143. <tubuliferous> I mean, if conditions change...
  144. <tubuliferous> and the old paradigms don't work...
  145. <Fleischy> work for hwat
  146. <tubuliferous> there isn't a diverse pool of alternative social strategies to draw from
  147. <Fleischy> is there a goal of any society other than to exist
  148. <tubuliferous> for survival of the group, I suppose
  149. <tubuliferous> good point...
  150. <Fleischy> and in modern times in the western world there is no threat to existing, sort of
  151. <tubuliferous> and now we have to get into a discussion of hierarchies of nested evolutionary selection
  152. <Fleischy> I mean there's the nuclear end of the world but that's outside of the control of individual societies
  153. <tubuliferous> and hence the beauty of Rimworld...
  154. <tubuliferous> and now I can justify playing it
  155. <tubuliferous> it forces an examination of social dynamics
  156. <Fleischy> there was no justification needed
  157. <Fleischy> it simply must be played
  158. <Fleischy> forever
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