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CaffeFreudMeeting 16122007

salahzar
Feb 16th, 2020
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  1. [8:15]  [2007/12/16 6:04]  IM: Lapsus Weinstein: "Paradoxical Situations in Leadership", This will be the topic of our today's meeting at Caffe Freud, 9am SLT, at Elegua 131, 237, 22
  2. [8:56]  You: hi :-)
  3. [8:57]  IM: Keef Korobase: wait!!...we are too many yet!!
  4. [8:57]  IM: Keef Korobase: cannot breath!!!
  5. [8:57]  SwAy Benelli is Online
  6. [8:57]  IM: Keef Korobase: :P
  7. [8:57]  IM: Lapsus Weinstein: too laggy
  8. [8:57]  Salahzar Stenvaag: hi, ppl :)
  9. [8:57]  Alaya Kumaki: hi salahzar
  10. [8:58]  Keef Korobase: Greetings!
  11. [8:58]  You: hi beautiful people!
  12. [8:58]  Salahzar Stenvaag: :)
  13. [8:58]  You: (it: bella gente)
  14. [8:58]  any1 Gynoid: Hey everybody! im helping organize a holiday party... luckily they put me incharge of media relations... so i've spun it ... so as not exclude any religious....or beliefs... .. I CAN SEND U AN INVITATION... cheeers!
  15. [8:58]  Keef Korobase: lol
  16. [8:59]  any1 Gynoid gave you Invitation to My Holiday Party!!! Please Join Us!.
  17. [8:59]  Keef Korobase: when should be that?
  18. [8:59]  You: ty
  19. [8:59]  You: as you see we have here today a TRUE leader
  20. [8:59]  Nadezda Markova: thx
  21. [8:59]  You: hi any1 :-)
  22. [9:00]  You: you too Nadezda :-)
  23. [9:00]  any1 Gynoid: 22nd December in 6 days.. Saturday from 12:30 to 9pm
  24. [9:00]  any1 Gynoid: the best bit will be the poetry at 5pm... i assure u
  25. [9:00]  Nadezda Markova: hi, lapsus
  26. [9:00]  any1 Gynoid: Poetry was the highlight of our peace festival... 1st dec.. 4 sure
  27. [9:01]  Keef Korobase: nice to hear...I see what I can do...will be at parent house on sat 22
  28. [9:02]  Keef Korobase: btw nice hat Alaya ! ;)
  29. [9:02]  any1 Gynoid: i've been nominated for leadership in US Democratic Party of SL... im very interested in your topic today
  30. [9:02]  01 Hifeng: hey... event is here?
  31. [9:02]  A group member named Lapsus Weinstein gave you Invitation to My Holiday Party!!! Please Join Us!.
  32. [9:02]  Keef Korobase: Greetings 01
  33. [9:02]  Keef Korobase: lol
  34. [9:02]  01 Hifeng: or at that sign's teleport location...
  35. [9:02]  any1 Gynoid: Hiya 01! ur invited to my Holiday Party love!!! i will send an invite...
  36. [9:03]  Keef Korobase: meeting is here dear..
  37. [9:03]  01 Hifeng: buahaha
  38. [9:03]  You: any1 FOR PRESIDENT !!!!!!!
  39. [9:03]  01 Hifeng: thanks, lol xP
  40. [9:03]  Keef Korobase: think already she is :P
  41. [9:03]  any1 Gynoid: lol MUWAH!!!! HA! HA! HA! HA!... now the lunatics are truly in charge of asylum lol
  42. [9:03]  Kira Ducrot is Offline
  43. [9:04]  You: hi 01, are you a CIA invited?
  44. [9:04]  01 Hifeng: ?
  45. [9:04]  You: (we are opening our relationships)
  46. [9:04]  01 Hifeng: nah
  47. [9:05]  You: also CIA uses DEBIAN
  48. [9:05]  You: this is a SOOP
  49. [9:05]  You: ops
  50. [9:05]  any1 Gynoid: CIA is ???
  51. [9:05]  01 Hifeng: lol
  52. [9:05]  You: SCOOP
  53. [9:06]  Keef Korobase: is that the kickstart for the meeting's topic?
  54. [9:06]  You: yes Keef
  55. [9:06]  You: ty for a new word
  56. [9:06]  You: kickstart
  57. [9:06]  SustainableLove Westland: hi
  58. [9:06]  Phill Rosca is Offline
  59. [9:06]  Keef Korobase: hehe..u r welcome..
  60. [9:06]  Keef Korobase: Greetings Sus!
  61. [9:06]  Alaya Kumaki: lol
  62. [9:07]  SustainableLove Westland: thanks
  63. [9:07]  You: hi Sus*
  64. [9:07]  Keef Korobase: is it fine if I call u Sus?
  65. [9:07]  Alaya Kumaki: so who will give the first kick in?
  66. [9:08]  Keef Korobase: "Paradoxical Situations in Leadership"
  67. [9:08]  Keef Korobase: who did come up with that?
  68. [9:08]  Keef Korobase: out come the culprit...
  69. [9:08]  Keef Korobase: ;)
  70. [9:08]  You: you, Keef :)
  71. [9:08]  Keef Korobase: lol
  72. [9:08]  Alaya Kumaki: ah
  73. [9:08]  Keef Korobase: wasn't me!!
  74. [9:08]  Keef Korobase: :P
  75. [9:08]  any1 Gynoid: you think leadership is fun... but its sh*t... everyone resents you... from what i've seen..... make me anything BUT leader IMHO
  76. [9:09]  01 Hifeng: lol
  77. [9:09]  any1 Gynoid: you want to get griefed... become a leader
  78. [9:09]  Alaya Kumaki: any , no one choose to be leader, realy, its a natural charisma and u got it!!!
  79. [9:09]  SustainableLove Westland: lol
  80. [9:09]  Nadezda Markova: what paradoxical situations did you have in mind, Keef?
  81. [9:10]  any1 Gynoid: i told those Democrats a million times.. im not a leader... im a creative... and here we are..... ;-(
  82. [9:10]  01 Hifeng: ee...
  83. [9:11]  Keef Korobase: I did not sponsor this Nadez .. :D ...Lapsus is playing 'hot potato' ;)
  84. [9:11]  Alaya Kumaki: people do like to follow creative poeple
  85. [9:11]  Nadezda Markova: hmmm
  86. [9:11]  any1 Gynoid: sorry.... i keep jumping in as a psychometric star.... somebody else.. please share your leadership FUN... lol
  87. [9:11]  Nadezda Markova: anyone have any paradoxical situations theye've experienced?
  88. [9:11]  Alaya Kumaki: but not dominant one
  89. [9:11]  Keef Korobase: never been in the position so cannot tell ^^
  90. [9:12]  Alaya Kumaki: what is a paradoxical situation, who can explain it
  91. [9:12]  any1 Gynoid: SL leadership... for example club ownership... or manager-ship.... is absolute hell..... ive been there done that..... u want to have a sh*tty time in SL.. try managing a club... no fun '-(
  92. [9:12]  Keef Korobase: lol
  93. [9:12]  Keef Korobase: right any1!
  94. [9:12]  Nadezda Markova: well, a paradox usually has some internal contradiction that can't be resolved
  95. [9:13]  Keef Korobase: like a leader being leaded ? ;)
  96. [9:13]  Alaya Kumaki: so beiing a leader and not wanting to be one , is a contradiction
  97. [9:13]  01 Hifeng: nah... the problem is that sl is cute 3d game-like thing, and we don't think we will have to work ;))
  98. [9:13]  01 Hifeng: but leader have to work xPP
  99. [9:14]  01 Hifeng: it has some funny elements... but a lots of work too
  100. [9:14]  Nadezda Markova: a paradox is that sl seems to be a 3d game, but there are real people on the other end of all the avatars, who are deadly serious
  101. [9:14]  myriam Martinek is Online
  102. [9:14]  SustainableLove Westland: Im still new to SL, but it seems to me that there is a little of looking for some kind of leadership, as well as a feeling that one could lead something
  103. [9:14]  any1 Gynoid: if you in any organization.. it becomes obvious too quickly that the ppl in charge are insane or idiots or evil... or some combination of these...... and then u think..... gee if i was in charge... WTF... could not be worse
  104. [9:15]  Nadezda Markova: a paradox could be that people are resentfuf if you don't do what they want you (ask you to,for), but also resentful and guilty, i fyou do too much for them
  105. [9:15]  SustainableLove Westland: yes
  106. [9:16]  You: hi Junko
  107. [9:16]  IM: Keef Korobase: si parlava di dominante e succube o sbaglio ? non mi ricordo neanche il titolo della discussione di oggi ! lol
  108. [9:16]  Nadezda Markova: maybe people's unstable commitment-- or wavering commitments-- to things in SL creates paradoxes for leaders, whoare trying to accomplish relatively long-term goals
  109. [9:16]  Junko Umaga: in here
  110. [9:16]  SwAy Benelli is Online
  111. [9:16]  any1 Gynoid: oh yes... its a fine line between empowerment and getting stuff done.... leaders often overburden themselves and suffer stress.... and depression... overwork... we can't let stuff fail... so we work our *sssses off the make it succeed.. its a death spiral...
  112. [9:16]  You: come in :)
  113. [9:16]  Alaya Kumaki: they want to look like they are the one who know how to give ideras and cant receive somme, (comments included)
  114. [9:17]  01 Hifeng: not me xP
  115. [9:17]  Nadezda Markova: not to mention the possibly uncertain commitment of the leaders
  116. [9:17]  01 Hifeng: afk
  117. [9:17]  Nadezda Markova: It's so easy to just disappear here-- withtout any consequences
  118. [9:18]  Alaya Kumaki: than what is a paradoxical lerdership in tree words
  119. [9:18]  myriam Martinek is Offline
  120. [9:18]  any1 Gynoid: sssshhhhhh... im listening to music in the background... (u shud turn urs off entirely)... but Bad Company is playing on http://216.180.250.4:8000 shhhhhhh lol
  121. [9:18]  Alaya Kumaki: hi bomi
  122. [9:18]  You: welcome Bomi!
  123. [9:19]  Alias Boyd is Offline
  124. [9:19]  Bomi Blinker: hello
  125. [9:19]  Keef Korobase: Greetings Bomi
  126. [9:19]  Bomi Blinker: *bow*
  127. [9:19]  Salahzar Stenvaag: ok, sorry, I was away for a while, but it looks very interesting for me this thing of leadership. and especially leaders that don't want to be. I also think that it is possible to do things without leadership or better with shared leadership.
  128. [9:20]  Alaya Kumaki: leaders ship whotout sharing the rersult, or non cooperative organisation can be a situation of paradox dont u tinks so
  129. [9:20]  Alaya Kumaki: whitout
  130. [9:20]  01 Hifeng: back
  131. [9:20]  Keef Korobase: *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
  132. [9:20]  01 Hifeng: lol
  133. [9:21]  Alaya Kumaki: lol
  134. [9:21]  Salahzar Stenvaag: can you define "leadership"
  135. [9:21]  Junko Umaga: I guess depends on the size of the group and the context
  136. [9:21]  You: (cool music any thanx)
  137. [9:21]  any1 Gynoid: we should discuss the formal and informal organizations... im a good example of an informal leader.... eventually the formal org comes to recognize that role.... and here we are... lol
  138. [9:21]  Maxwelle Gregan is Online
  139. [9:21]  Keef Korobase: mmm yes and no...
  140. [9:22]  You: (now you can listen to it also here inworld)
  141. [9:22]  Junko Umaga: earned leadership vs. ascribed??
  142. [9:22]  any1 Gynoid: lol
  143. [9:22]  Keef Korobase: I think that 'groups' tend to follow cycles of structuring...
  144. [9:22]  Keef Korobase: at some point some revert to unstructured status...
  145. [9:22]  any1 Gynoid: there is a difference between leadership and supervision....
  146. [9:22]  Keef Korobase: other evolves into fully fledged organizations
  147. [9:22]  any1 Gynoid: leaders lead by example
  148. [9:22]  Salahzar Stenvaag: this is interesting what I'm finding on Wikipedia
  149. [9:22]  MystiTool HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Blue Hanfoi (17m)
  150. [9:22]  Salahzar Stenvaag: "One of the differentiating factors between Management and Leadership is the ability or even necessity to inspire. A Leader, one who can instill passion and direction to an individual or group of individuals, will be using psychology to affect that group either consciously or unconsciously."
  151. [9:22]  any1 Gynoid: supervisors are *ssssholes...IMHO... lol
  152. [9:23]  Keef Korobase: lol
  153. [9:23]  Alaya Kumaki: is there a objectiv that leade people toghether or did the follow someone who direct and create someting in whitc thy do whant to participate
  154. [9:23]  You: hi Aliya:)
  155. [9:23]  SustainableLove Westland: hmm thats interesting
  156. [9:23]  01 Hifeng: huh any1
  157. [9:23]  Junko Umaga: leadership vs. authority
  158. [9:23]  Bomi Blinker: i must say supervisors are not leaders where i work
  159. [9:23]  any1 Gynoid: big time!...
  160. [9:23]  Aliya Ariantho: Hi Lapsus :)
  161. [9:23]  any1 Gynoid: i seen that a million times
  162. [9:23]  Alaya Kumaki: lapsus are u the lerder in here?
  163. [9:23]  Alaya Kumaki: r*
  164. [9:24]  Alaya Kumaki: a
  165. [9:24]  any1 Gynoid: no he's an *sssshole... LOL JUST KIDDING!
  166. [9:24]  Bomi Blinker: all the interviews i got to, they are looking for leadership qualities, but when you look at management, they have none
  167. [9:24]  Bomi Blinker: none of the supervisors or management have any influence over the employees work habits
  168. [9:24]  Nadezda Markova: often leaders are at least willing to do a lot of work
  169. [9:24]  Bomi Blinker: lack of leadership
  170. [9:25]  Bomi Blinker: i agree on that nadezda
  171. [9:25]  Alaya Kumaki: do people who look after leaders ,, are those who a kind of qualified to be in paradoxical situation
  172. [9:25]  Junko Umaga: it is unlikely you will be hired based on leadership capablities unless someone is sayg "here the idea and the money.. make it happen"
  173. [9:25]  01 Hifeng: mhm Nadeza, they need to do some work to don't loose people's interest xP
  174. [9:25]  You: you're welcome Marin
  175. [9:26]  Marin Effingham: thanks
  176. [9:26]  Salahzar Stenvaag: Do you agree that "leaders" and "managers" are different abilities?
  177. [9:26]  You: and Blue
  178. [9:26]  Nadezda Markova: if they don't do the work-- and no one does the work-- nothing happens-- there's no group, no mission, or goal to be worked toward
  179. [9:26]  01 Hifeng: exactly
  180. [9:27]  Bomi Blinker: sigh i am lagging
  181. [9:27]  Keef Korobase: yes Sala
  182. [9:27]  Salahzar Stenvaag: so leaders are meanly psicological interesting
  183. [9:27]  Keef Korobase: also I would say that Leadership is innate..management can be learned
  184. [9:27]  Salahzar Stenvaag: not technical or technicians
  185. [9:28]  Josette Chaffe is Offline
  186. [9:28]  Salahzar Stenvaag: actually leadership can be in the open
  187. [9:28]  Salahzar Stenvaag: or hidden
  188. [9:28]  Alaya Kumaki: so mission goal and abilities are the qualities related to lerdership, that in three words what is a paradoxical leadership
  189. [9:28]  Josette Chaffe is Online
  190. [9:28]  Junko Umaga: Everyone has the chance to be a leader given the circumstances
  191. [9:28]  Aliya Ariantho: I think maybe leadership 'styles' can be learned?
  192. [9:28]  Junko Umaga: Some rise to the occasion
  193. [9:28]  Junko Umaga: like Lincoln and Churchill
  194. [9:29]  Aliya Ariantho: Maybe not all the attributes for each one however
  195. [9:29]  Keef Korobase: do not agree Junko
  196. [9:29]  Salahzar Stenvaag: I still don't catch the paradox
  197. [9:29]  Salahzar Stenvaag: can someone explain better?
  198. [9:29]  Nadezda Markova: we haven't gottene to a paradox yet; we're still trying to get a grasp of leadership as an idea
  199. [9:29]  any1 Gynoid: i have a theory (often proven by annecdotes) that if you join a voluntary organization... (like an SL group).. if you keep volunteering to do stuff.... you will become the leaders... eventually.... happened to me.... didn't even ask for it..... lol
  200. [9:29]  Keef Korobase: lol
  201. [9:29]  Alaya Kumaki: to bee leaded when one doesnt whant to, but no way out witout loosing
  202. [9:29]  Nadezda Markova: I agree with any1
  203. [9:30]  01 Hifeng: yes, any1, very true...
  204. [9:30]  Nadezda Markova: if you join, and start doing things, people will look to you to do them, and to lead when they happen
  205. [9:30]  Salahzar Stenvaag: in my organization they wanted to exploit my "visions"
  206. [9:30]  Salahzar Stenvaag: am I a leader?
  207. [9:30]  01 Hifeng: i started by volunteering in someones group, now i have my own xP
  208. [9:30]  Nadezda Markova: it could depend on what role you take in organizing and executing things within the group
  209. [9:30]  Salahzar Stenvaag: I just don't want to be a leader
  210. [9:31]  01 Hifeng: good, more work for me xPP
  211. [9:31]  Salahzar Stenvaag: but love to have effects on ideas and ppl
  212. [9:31]  Salahzar Stenvaag: indirect leadership
  213. [9:31]  Nadezda Markova: there are many important roles; being a leader isn't the only o ne
  214. [9:31]  Alaya Kumaki: not wanting to be leader doesen prevent u to be in a position of taking decision for or on someone one days, position of power
  215. [9:31]  Salahzar Stenvaag: Having a leader is much more effective
  216. [9:32]  any1 Gynoid: cool... we are all leaders in our human potential.... we just have to unfold that potential.....
  217. [9:32]  01 Hifeng: nah
  218. [9:32]  Alaya Kumaki: i do think tha people who a re looking to be led are more isposed to be in paradoxical situation
  219. [9:32]  Junko Umaga: Time for everything to leasd and at times to follow
  220. [9:32]  any1 Gynoid: be the "inner leader".... embrace the Inner Leader.... MUWAH!
  221. [9:32]  Junko Umaga: lead
  222. [9:33]  Junko Umaga: Is democracy anti-thetical to leadership??
  223. [9:33]  Salahzar Stenvaag: no actually democracy
  224. [9:33]  Salahzar Stenvaag: relies on leaders
  225. [9:33]  Merlin Tilling is Online
  226. [9:33]  Salahzar Stenvaag: because of the principle of delegation
  227. [9:33]  Junko Umaga: A pyrimid scheme of leaders?? LOL
  228. [9:34]  Salahzar Stenvaag: and this also in my opinion is why leaders do exist
  229. [9:34]  Alaya Kumaki: in our society we are for my ppoint of view in a hybryde between real democraty and dictatorship
  230. [9:34]  Salahzar Stenvaag: people prefer having somebody to delegate important decisions
  231. [9:34]  Nadezda Markova: which society, Alaya?
  232. [9:34]  Junko Umaga: representational dictorship??
  233. [9:34]  any1 Gynoid: no.... Pythagoras...... the Ionian teacher in India.. and the ruler of a City State... the great philosopher and mathematician.... was way wasy democratic in his thinking
  234. [9:34]  SustainableLove Westland: I think people look for leadership
  235. [9:34]  any1 Gynoid: Plato
  236. [9:34]  Salahzar Stenvaag: because they are not enough mature to have paritarian approaches
  237. [9:34]  Alaya Kumaki: inmy contry
  238. [9:34]  any1 Gynoid: Aristotle
  239. [9:35]  any1 Gynoid: these lads invented democracy
  240. [9:35]  Salahzar Stenvaag: Socrate was "against" democracy
  241. [9:35]  SustainableLove Westland: someone to point them in a direction
  242. [9:35]  any1 Gynoid: and leaders are necessary.. lol
  243. [9:35]  dbbSinger Contepomi: hi may i sit in?
  244. [9:35]  any1 Gynoid: Socrates is dead.... lol
  245. [9:35]  Salahzar Stenvaag: in the sense that he saw that democracy at the end tended to listen to leaders
  246. [9:35]  Junko Umaga: visionary = "Leader" ??
  247. [9:35]  Keef Korobase: sure dbb
  248. [9:35]  Salahzar Stenvaag: who weren't in the right
  249. [9:35]  any1 Gynoid: condemned to die
  250. [9:35]  dbbSinger Contepomi: thank you
  251. [9:35]  Salahzar Stenvaag: byt could drag the people
  252. [9:35]  Nadezda Markova: leaders are necessary; but often become a distraction or burden to the group[[ that's a paradox
  253. [9:35]  any1 Gynoid: socrates... gr8 example... he was the anti-leader....
  254. [9:36]  Bernard Halcali is Offline
  255. [9:36]  any1 Gynoid: anti-expert
  256. [9:36]  Salahzar Stenvaag: yes everything coming from ourselves
  257. [9:36]  any1 Gynoid: anti intellectual in chief
  258. [9:36]  Alaya Kumaki: lerdership is than contradicting democraty
  259. [9:36]  Aliya Ariantho: The real paradox may reside in the idea of 'distributed leadership'
  260. [9:36]  Salahzar Stenvaag: leader, or the teacher was just a "facilitator"
  261. [9:36]  Aliya Ariantho: Which in tunr relates to effective delegation
  262. [9:36]  Phill Rosca is Offline
  263. [9:36]  Anubis Hartunian is Online
  264. [9:36]  Aliya Ariantho: If one enables a team to operate effectively
  265. [9:36]  Salahzar Stenvaag: I don't think that distributed leadership is the same as delegation
  266. [9:36]  Aliya Ariantho: And to make their own decisions
  267. [9:37]  Aliya Ariantho: then everyone in it leads in some way
  268. [9:37]  Keef Korobase: what is distributed leagership?
  269. [9:37]  Keef Korobase: leader*
  270. [9:37]  Aliya Ariantho: and makes their own mistakes
  271. [9:37]  Aliya Ariantho: Exactly that Keef
  272. [9:37]  Aliya Ariantho: It is allowing team members to contribute
  273. [9:37]  Aliya Ariantho: individual strengths
  274. [9:37]  Aliya Ariantho: as no one person can have them all
  275. [9:38]  Aliya Ariantho: so per se
  276. [9:38]  Aliya Ariantho: it involves leading in differetnt aspects
  277. [9:38]  Aliya Ariantho: and is task oriented
  278. [9:38]  Aliya Ariantho: So everyone is a leader
  279. [9:39]  Aliya Ariantho: In that model
  280. [9:39]  Keef Korobase: I'm not reading anything...was the question too hard? :P
  281. [9:39]  Aliya Ariantho: and so it contradicts the definition of the term
  282. [9:40]  any1 Gynoid: i keep coming back to about 170 years ago philosophy.... as a key to leadership and common sense BTW... Vivekananda..... u need 2 things to make the world a better place (to lead).... a vision... and a process to get there.. ... the leader facilitates the definition of both... then (possibly other) leaders.. facilitate the execution of the process... in a nutshell... that's it
  283. [9:40]  any1 Gynoid: how things happen
  284. [9:41]  Junko Umaga: sumimasen
  285. [9:42]  any1 Gynoid: Knowing "how things happen" is the goal of human potential facilitation... what i do
  286. [9:42]  Alaya Kumaki: and if the leaders have to ash what is opinion of its member about the facilityes .. should he accept theirs view any
  287. [9:42]  any1 Gynoid: always.... follow the energy
  288. [9:42]  any1 Gynoid: yes
  289. [9:43]  Aliya Ariantho: Agreed
  290. [9:43]  any1 Gynoid: u guys got a great topic here... gr8 energy.. well done!!!
  291. [9:43]  Keef Korobase: I got to go...cya chaps! :)
  292. [9:43]  any1 Gynoid: gr8 leadership lol
  293. [9:43]  SustainableLove Westland: hmm...knowing how things happen
  294. [9:43]  Alaya Kumaki: and when a leaders doenst accept view of members does he pput them in paradoxical situation
  295. [9:44]  any1 Gynoid: always avoid that....
  296. [9:44]  SustainableLove Westland: Id think so
  297. [9:44]  You: ciao Keef:)
  298. [9:44]  01 Hifeng: ouch, accidential click xP
  299. [9:44]  01 Hifeng: uh
  300. [9:44]  any1 Gynoid: the idea is that leaders own the "process" and the team owns the content
  301. [9:44]  Alaya Kumaki: byebye keef!
  302. [9:44]  any1 Gynoid: when u cross those lines... trouble....
  303. [9:45]  any1 Gynoid: its meeting facilitation... in a nutshell
  304. [9:45]  Aliya Ariantho: How is the process determined then?
  305. [9:45]  any1 Gynoid: facilitator cannot control content... or the ownership is lost in a heartbeat
  306. [9:46]  any1 Gynoid: group ownership... is the goal of leadership... always
  307. [9:46]  Alaya Kumaki: can it be that misson or the way chossen to do things are not well undeerstand bye the members as well as by the leaders and that it may influence him to not accepted members opinions
  308. [9:46]  SustainableLove Westland: true
  309. [9:46]  Aliya Ariantho: Surely the process and the content of say a solving a problem --- are interdependent
  310. [9:46]  Aliya Ariantho: And need devising together?
  311. [9:46]  SustainableLove Westland: lol
  312. [9:47]  Aliya Ariantho: And anyway unless process evolves dynamically
  313. [9:47]  Aliya Ariantho: As the task develops
  314. [9:47]  Aliya Ariantho: Then there may not be a solution
  315. [9:48]  any1 Gynoid: i am ruthlessly tactical... in my thinking.... there is a basic process.... for all decision making..... idea generation..... information sharing..... and choice (decision-making)... u just keep repeating that... its like Orgone energy.. ... there is a climax of energy... and the love comes out....
  316. [9:48]  Aliya Ariantho: :)
  317. [9:48]  SustainableLove Westland: hmmm
  318. [9:48]  Aliya Ariantho: There was definitely paradox in that statement lol
  319. [9:48]  You: recursivity, any1?
  320. [9:49]  Aliya Ariantho: "ruthlessly tactical" and "love comes out"
  321. [9:49]  Salahzar Stenvaag: so like an experiment: learn from the errors. You missed the evaluation phase
  322. [9:50]  any1 Gynoid: This is the textbook... of facilitation.... "Techniques of Structured Problem Solving"... by Arthur VanGundy... 1988
  323. [9:50]  any1 Gynoid: that's one aspect of leadership
  324. [9:50]  Bernard Halcali is Offline
  325. [9:50]  Alaya Kumaki: or that evaluation, mmmm, does the leaders evaluate him or herself as much as members do
  326. [9:50]  any1 Gynoid: gr8 meetings
  327. [9:50]  any1 Gynoid: that's what i do
  328. [9:50]  Salahzar Stenvaag: there are leaders who don't evaluate and don't cope with the group.
  329. [9:50]  Aliya Ariantho: Who chairs your meetings Any1? *just asking :)
  330. [9:52]  any1 Gynoid: ideally.. the facilitator is neutral... there is a "content" owner.... like CEO.. you have a protagnonist, and antagonist.... and then a diverse group... the mission is to get protagonist and antagonist to communication and startin working together.... that's "Intervention" in a nutshell.....
  331. [9:52]  any1 Gynoid: fixes broken organizations...
  332. [9:52]  Aliya Ariantho: So its a dialectic then?
  333. [9:52]  Salahzar Stenvaag: Majority and Minoritity?
  334. [9:53]  Nadezda Markova: have to go, sorry
  335. [9:53]  Aliya Ariantho: Aaah yes so actually we are talking here about teams at different stages
  336. [9:53]  any1 Gynoid: and most everything else... that's the problem...
  337. [9:53]  You: bye Nadezda, ty :)
  338. [9:54]  any1 Gynoid: this is beyond leadership..... usually you hire professionals to deal with this level of issues...
  339. [9:54]  Aliya Ariantho: If its a broken organisation I can see how that approach woudl be useful
  340. [9:54]  Alaya Kumaki: so if the leader is a facylitator and the one who make intervention... what may happen that it become paradoxical make it become paradoxical
  341. [9:54]  any1 Gynoid: headshrinkers lol
  342. [9:54]  any1 Gynoid: like us
  343. [9:54]  any1 Gynoid: lol
  344. [9:54]  Aliya Ariantho: But not for a fully functioning team
  345. [9:54]  Salahzar Stenvaag: Might I say that in every organizations they can go broken
  346. [9:54]  Aliya Ariantho: Yes
  347. [9:54]  Aliya Ariantho: true
  348. [9:54]  Salahzar Stenvaag: so leadership shoul also prevent this happening
  349. [9:55]  Salahzar Stenvaag: and since Leader uses psychology and has "carisma"
  350. [9:55]  Aliya Ariantho: Through developing the skills of the members and clarifying expectation and role
  351. [9:55]  Salahzar Stenvaag: he/she can deal with problems better than just a manager
  352. [9:55]  any1 Gynoid: indeed... leadership.. should try to prevent it.... but sh*t happens.... usually on day 4 of a 4 day retreat lol
  353. [9:56]  any1 Gynoid: 5 day...lol
  354. [9:56]  Aliya Ariantho: What is charisma I wonder?
  355. [9:56]  Aliya Ariantho: Can that be learnt?
  356. [9:56]  any1 Gynoid: im too close to that question... u tell me
  357. [9:56]  Salahzar Stenvaag: I think that charisma is one of the best qualities a leader should have
  358. [9:56]  Salahzar Stenvaag: and imply empathy
  359. [9:56]  Aliya Ariantho: Well we need to unpack 'charisma'
  360. [9:57]  any1 Gynoid: okies.. survey method..
  361. [9:57]  Aliya Ariantho: What do you need to ahve to be charismatic?
  362. [9:57]  any1 Gynoid: divide and conquer
  363. [9:57]  Alaya Kumaki: any .. as i say it.. at the biginning,, and u have that..
  364. [9:57]  dbbSinger Contepomi: attractiveness
  365. [9:57]  Aliya Ariantho: Nope
  366. [9:57]  Aliya Ariantho: I dont think so
  367. [9:57]  any1 Gynoid: big t*ts... doesnt hurt... lol
  368. [9:57]  Salahzar Stenvaag: refers to a rare trait found in certain human personalities usually including extreme charm and a 'magnetic' quality of personality and/or appearance along with innate and powerfully sophisticated personal communicability and persuasiveness.
  369. [9:57]  Salahzar Stenvaag: (from wikipedia)
  370. [9:58]  Aliya Ariantho: How about deep concern for others?
  371. [9:58]  Salahzar Stenvaag: from the greek "gift from the gods"
  372. [9:58]  dbbSinger Contepomi: not neccessarily physical
  373. [9:58]  Alaya Kumaki: wow sahlazar
  374. [9:58]  dbbSinger Contepomi: magnetism
  375. [9:58]  Aliya Ariantho: :)
  376. [9:58]  any1 Gynoid: uncontrollable flatulence... lol
  377. [9:58]  dbbSinger Contepomi: you captivate and inspire
  378. [9:58]  Alaya Kumaki: lol
  379. [9:58]  Alaya Kumaki: inspire
  380. [9:58]  dbbSinger Contepomi: cause others to believe in what you believe
  381. [9:58]  Alaya Kumaki: so the paradoxical leaders ship doesnt inspire
  382. [9:59]  dbbSinger Contepomi: just by being you
  383. [9:59]  any1 Gynoid: you embody the corporate mission... it is you.... in a sense...
  384. [9:59]  Alaya Kumaki: but lead u to the oposite of ur own values doesnt it,,
  385. [9:59]  any1 Gynoid: a perfect citizen
  386. [10:00]  Aliya Ariantho: You cannot be an inspirational or charismatic leader if you abnegate your own values I feel?
  387. [10:00]  Salahzar Stenvaag: I worked in "political" groups: they worked much better if a person used leadership WITH charisma
  388. [10:00]  any1 Gynoid: model citizen....
  389. [10:00]  any1 Gynoid: ideal citizen
  390. [10:00]  any1 Gynoid: what ppls like us have been doing for hundreds of years
  391. [10:00]  Salahzar Stenvaag: so it is indeed a useful shortcut to get things done
  392. [10:00]  01 Hifeng: yes, you can, but you have to be good actor, lol
  393. [10:00]  Aliya Ariantho: A very good one :)
  394. [10:01]  SustainableLove Westland: charisma is very helpful...and can make up for a fair amount of lack of skill
  395. [10:01]  01 Hifeng: yeah, so most won't make it ;)
  396. [10:01]  Alaya Kumaki: but popple who dont have ur mission , can have their charisma and lead a campaing against urs
  397. [10:01]  Aliya Ariantho: Or disingenous more like
  398. [10:01]  Salahzar Stenvaag: only problem is that after a while charismatic leaders they tend to be attacked
  399. [10:01]  Alaya Kumaki: voila
  400. [10:01]  Aliya Ariantho: Touche
  401. [10:01]  any1 Gynoid: IMHO... a schmoozer... schmoozing is key..... telling ppls what they want to hear... and its all for a purpose .... a goal... a vision... and a proces to get there.... lol... full circle
  402. [10:01]  SustainableLove Westland: enthusiasm can cause people to follow
  403. [10:02]  any1 Gynoid: but enthusiasts are stupid... right?
  404. [10:02]  Alaya Kumaki: and the other leaders , who "attacked"" just is a leraders
  405. [10:02]  Aliya Ariantho: So enthusiam ---
  406. [10:02]  Alaya Kumaki: is jjust an other leaders
  407. [10:02]  Aliya Ariantho: Is an attribute of charisma then
  408. [10:02]  any1 Gynoid: enthusiam... the feeling with pass.... get real! lol
  409. [10:02]  Salahzar Stenvaag: and produce other problems, so the shortcut can become a problem.. This is why I prefer some other ways of federated leaderships..
  410. [10:02]  01 Hifeng: well, i'm realist, lol
  411. [10:02]  Alaya Kumaki: with his follower, and his charisma
  412. [10:02]  Aliya Ariantho: It also means 'closeness to God' in Ancient Greek I think?
  413. [10:02]  01 Hifeng: but it's important to make things at least sound enthusiastic
  414. [10:03]  Aliya Ariantho: Yep
  415. [10:03]  Salahzar Stenvaag: The word charisma (from the Greek word χάρισμα (kharisma), "gift" or "divine favor," from kharizesthai, "to favor," from kharis, "favor":
  416. [10:03]  Aliya Ariantho: *looks keen
  417. [10:03]  Aliya Ariantho: Wow
  418. [10:03]  SustainableLove Westland: IMHO it is the "energy" of enthusiasm that does the trick...and can't really be faked
  419. [10:03]  Aliya Ariantho: These meetings are always very informative :)
  420. [10:03]  any1 Gynoid: woah Aliya!... now ur in my back yard lol
  421. [10:03]  Aliya Ariantho: Agreed SustaubleLove
  422. [10:04]  Aliya Ariantho: And hiow would you like me to sweep it Any1?
  423. [10:04]  Alaya Kumaki: how can u stad against the oposite leadership whitout biginning mislead in a defense that bring u to act the oposited way u tend to do in ur group
  424. [10:04]  Salahzar Stenvaag: We in Italy we often have people who have strong charisma
  425. [10:04]  Aliya Ariantho: Or rather how would you get me to sweep it? lol
  426. [10:04]  any1 Gynoid: Charisma is a gift from G-d...
  427. [10:04]  any1 Gynoid: yup
  428. [10:04]  Salahzar Stenvaag: and can drag the people, but I'm unsure they can really be useful for the people
  429. [10:04]  Aliya Ariantho: I disagree
  430. [10:04]  Aliya Ariantho: It can be learnt through acting
  431. [10:04]  Aliya Ariantho: as someone said just now
  432. [10:04]  Aliya Ariantho: If you act long enough
  433. [10:05]  Aliya Ariantho: You become that person
  434. [10:05]  any1 Gynoid: yes... acting... is a key skill.....
  435. [10:05]  Aliya Ariantho: Very appropriate idea for SL eh?
  436. [10:05]  any1 Gynoid: but .. its the "sincere" quality... the deep belief... that can't be faked...
  437. [10:05]  01 Hifeng: i don't know... actually, defining who you are isn't that easy
  438. [10:06]  Aliya Ariantho: Thats what comes from caring for others
  439. [10:06]  01 Hifeng: so that whole talking about "you become that person"... hmmm...
  440. [10:06]  any1 Gynoid: in RL i mean.. because in RL 70% of commm is non-verbal......
  441. [10:06]  Aliya Ariantho: If you sincerley care about your team
  442. [10:06]  Aliya Ariantho: or colleagues
  443. [10:06]  any1 Gynoid: here in SL its almost all verbal
  444. [10:06]  Aliya Ariantho: AND act the charismatic
  445. [10:06]  Aliya Ariantho: Youve got it made
  446. [10:06]  Aliya Ariantho: They are not contradictory
  447. [10:07]  Alaya Kumaki: does the paradoxical leadership is not found on belief to
  448. [10:07]  Aliya Ariantho: They are complementary
  449. [10:07]  any1 Gynoid: rule #1.... when you are speaking publically..... 1st message = ... let them know you care.... so that's a key part of setting the stage for charisma
  450. [10:07]  You: charisma, charity, (taking) care... same root...
  451. [10:07]  any1 Gynoid: Charisma is a relationship ... of trust.... IMHO
  452. [10:08]  Aliya Ariantho: I am sweeping your yard biw Any1 - totally agree :)
  453. [10:08]  any1 Gynoid: lol
  454. [10:08]  01 Hifeng: lol, moments of silence... xP
  455. [10:08]  Aliya Ariantho: Moments of thought
  456. [10:09]  Aliya Ariantho: And listening
  457. [10:09]  Lucian Iwish is Offline
  458. [10:09]  Alaya Kumaki: so if u got believ ant people trust un, dont u think u cant be put in a situation where u can be lead to act in a fashion that u regret , for ur values...
  459. [10:09]  Aliya Ariantho: Leaders are very good listeners
  460. [10:09]  Aliya Ariantho: When the moment is right
  461. [10:09]  Aliya Ariantho: Yes
  462. [10:09]  Aliya Ariantho: Alaya
  463. [10:09]  Aliya Ariantho: Like in cults
  464. [10:09]  Alaya Kumaki: and sect
  465. [10:09]  any1 Gynoid: there are these human insecurity... issues.... Charisma is about breaking through all that.... beyond "ACCEPTANCE" and "RESPECT" to moving on to solving real challenges.....
  466. [10:09]  Aliya Ariantho: Yep
  467. [10:10]  01 Hifeng: mhm
  468. [10:10]  Aliya Ariantho: Its the acceptance of change and the management of that then
  469. [10:10]  any1 Gynoid: Human INsecurity is "THE" issue... in general
  470. [10:10]  Aliya Ariantho: Yes
  471. [10:10]  any1 Gynoid: Comedy Team of Aliya and Any... lol... we'll be here all week! lol
  472. [10:11]  Alaya Kumaki: acceptance of change is a key i think
  473. [10:11]  Aliya Ariantho: That was a serious statement
  474. [10:11]  Aliya Ariantho: :)
  475. [10:11]  any1 Gynoid: yes dear
  476. [10:11]  Aliya Ariantho: If you want comedy I do that after hours
  477. [10:12]  Aliya Ariantho: One of the key tasks of a good leader is to get people to see the point of change and ---
  478. [10:12]  Aliya Ariantho: through effective timing and pace
  479. [10:12]  Aliya Ariantho: Avoid innovation overlaod
  480. [10:12]  Alaya Kumaki: because belief and rigidity lead to paradoxical situation , and the wary out is openness flexibility
  481. [10:13]  any1 Gynoid: i think its about intimacy.... Charmisma does not exist without intimacy
  482. [10:13]  any1 Gynoid: intimacy is trust...
  483. [10:13]  Aliya Ariantho: *sweeps faster and more effectively
  484. [10:13]  any1 Gynoid: LOL
  485. [10:13]  any1 Gynoid: maybe its the "illusion" of intimacy
  486. [10:13]  dbbSinger Contepomi: hmm charismatics speak to people's lives
  487. [10:13]  Alaya Kumaki: sorru everybody, i just witeness someting i never saw
  488. [10:13]  Aliya Ariantho: Yes more acting
  489. [10:13]  any1 Gynoid: pretension is a big factor with Charismatic ppls...
  490. [10:14]  Alaya Kumaki: out side is a snow storm and i eard tunder and saw a
  491. lithning
  492. [10:14]  Aliya Ariantho: Wow
  493. [10:14]  dbbSinger Contepomi: why do you say that?
  494. [10:15]  Aliya Ariantho: any1 - what did you mean by pretension?
  495. [10:15]  any1 Gynoid: we have not addressed... the role of Charismatic Religion..... Pentecostal Xtians.... Chassids...... Sufi Dervishes.... that's part of the scope of a discussion of charisma
  496. [10:15]  any1 Gynoid: they "do" charisma
  497. [10:15]  Aliya Ariantho: If someone beleives in something whoileheartedly
  498. [10:15]  any1 Gynoid: systematically
  499. [10:15]  You: ([10:14] Alaya Kumaki: out side is a snow storm and i eard tunder and saw a lithning RL ?)
  500. [10:15]  Aliya Ariantho: They cannot be pretentious really
  501. [10:15]  dbbSinger Contepomi: yea
  502. [10:16]  Aliya Ariantho: Like that list of examples you just cited
  503. [10:16]  Alaya Kumaki: nature give charisma.. i think its in it like flowers do atract and smell of fruits
  504. [10:16]  Aliya Ariantho: And Jim Morrison
  505. [10:16]  Aliya Ariantho: He was charismatic
  506. [10:17]  any1 Gynoid: there is a religous practice of Charisma..... its can be a systematic... unfolding of your soul... not just a circumstantial....happening....
  507. [10:17]  Aliya Ariantho: Wasnt there even a branch of the Church called the Charismatics too?
  508. [10:17]  Aliya Ariantho: Aaah
  509. [10:17]  Aliya Ariantho: ty
  510. [10:17]  01 Hifeng: ouch
  511. [10:17]  any1 Gynoid: tons of charismatic sects and religous orgs.... big time....
  512. [10:17]  IM: Alaya Kumaki: no  but  temperature   is  not  usuall
  513. [10:18]  any1 Gynoid: American Evangelicals..... are charismatic.... right wing thinkers.....
  514. [10:18]  any1 Gynoid: as well as Sufi Dervishes.. going back 300 years or more
  515. [10:18]  Aliya Ariantho: But did the Sufis have leaders as such?
  516. [10:19]  any1 Gynoid: My fav are Reconstructionists... Judaism.... wonderful... charismatic... thinkers..... definately on our wavelength of progressive goals
  517. [10:19]  Aliya Ariantho: Surely they influneced each other into a heightened state of fervour?
  518. [10:19]  Aliya Ariantho: So it was more of a mass hysteria?
  519. [10:20]  Aliya Ariantho: Brought on by a shared interest
  520. [10:20]  Alaya Kumaki: influens , is also a leadership quality , capabilyty to influenc
  521. [10:20]  Aliya Ariantho: Can oen leader induce mass hysteria?
  522. [10:20]  Aliya Ariantho: I dont think so
  523. [10:20]  dbbSinger Contepomi: cultural
  524. [10:21]  Alaya Kumaki: i call those agitator
  525. [10:21]  Alaya Kumaki: nnot leader
  526. [10:21]  Aliya Ariantho: Anyway Tolstoy made some interesting observations on historical leadership
  527. [10:21]  Aliya Ariantho: As an appendix to War and Peace
  528. [10:22]  any1 Gynoid: The Sufis.... are the seedcoRN.... when there is religous oppression.. they keep it alive... and revive... spiritual practices... for the ppls... when the surpression is relieved..... but i don't want to characterize Sufis as Islamic... there are Jewish Sufis and Xtian.. and Hindu... big time... they all believe that there is a common core of religious belief..
  529. [10:22]  any1 Gynoid: Charisma includes.... the ability to supress... your outward. evangelism... and wait out a storm...
  530. [10:22]  dbbSinger Contepomi: sounds like reduction
  531. [10:22]  You: Tolstoj :)
  532. [10:22]  any1 Gynoid: and bring it back
  533. [10:23]  any1 Gynoid: hunker down
  534. [10:23]  Aliya Ariantho: So do they believe in divine scriptures?
  535. [10:23]  Aliya Ariantho: These sufis?
  536. [10:23]  Aliya Ariantho: To guide them?
  537. [10:24]  dbbSinger Contepomi: or an authoritative figure?
  538. [10:24]  any1 Gynoid: that's a whole nuther discussion. hunni... u can check up on Wikipedia
  539. [10:24]  Aliya Ariantho: Ooops sorry
  540. [10:24]  Aliya Ariantho: *drops broom
  541. [10:24]  Alaya Kumaki: i think sufi belive in spoken words more than scripture
  542. [10:24]  You: they have in common the love for dance
  543. [10:24]  dbbSinger Contepomi: :)
  544. [10:24]  You: all these ancient 'wise' men (and women)
  545. [10:24]  Alaya Kumaki: real fluide live
  546. [10:24]  any1 Gynoid: i have not written about Sufis yet.... but I have written about Hinduism, Islam and Judaism... on a Internet site...... http://secondlife.prayerchain.org ...
  547. [10:25]  any1 Gynoid: i will write about Sufis some day
  548. [10:25]  Aliya Ariantho: Excellent
  549. [10:25]  Aliya Ariantho: Thanks for the link :)
  550. [10:25]  Alaya Kumaki: they ten to run after live discussion interd of resding
  551. [10:25]  Alaya Kumaki: instead of reading
  552. [10:25]  dbbSinger Contepomi: friends.thanks for the discussion. nice meeting all of you. i'm going off. bye
  553. [10:25]  Aliya Ariantho: Byee dbb
  554. [10:26]  any1 Gynoid: LOL...
  555. [10:26]  You: hi dbbSinger :) bye and thank you
  556. [10:26]  Alaya Kumaki: byebye dbb
  557. [10:26]  any1 Gynoid: in Australia... "we are going off" means.. we are partying hardy... going off the rails...
  558. [10:26]  any1 Gynoid: that's what i like to hear! lol
  559. [10:26]  Alaya Kumaki: loll
  560. [10:26]  Alaya Kumaki: in the bushes
  561. [10:26]  any1 Gynoid: lol
  562. [10:27]  Alaya Kumaki: thats why the people there ar e caled busheman
  563. [10:27]  any1 Gynoid: don't say "bushman".... that is a like a major insult in Africa..... do go there
  564. [10:27]  any1 Gynoid: dont' lol
  565. [10:27]  Alaya Kumaki: lolo to late iv said it
  566. [10:27]  Aliya Ariantho: I also must go - thank you very much for some interestign ideas and the chance to discuss in a non-threatening environment ---- guess thats because no leader stamped their mark too much on the group??
  567. [10:27]  any1 Gynoid: how dare you! lol
  568. [10:27]  Aliya Ariantho: *smiles picks up broom and rides off on it ------
  569. [10:27]  Alaya Kumaki: just a litl joke
  570. [10:28]  any1 Gynoid: ROTFL!!! JK
  571. [10:28]  Alaya Kumaki: ^^))
  572. [10:28]  Aliya Ariantho: Byee guys
  573. [10:28]  You: ciao Aliya
  574. [10:28]  Alaya Kumaki: byebye aliya(nice name )
  575. [10:29]  You: salire
  576. [10:29]  You: psalterium
  577. [10:29]  MystiTool HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Kariin Thorne (17m)
  578. [10:29]  You: dance again lol
  579. [10:29]  any1 Gynoid: is it nakey time now?
  580. [10:29]  any1 Gynoid: lol
  581. [10:29]  Alaya Kumaki: loll
  582. [10:29]  Alaya Kumaki: lets swirl
  583. [10:30]  any1 Gynoid: i proposed Streaking through Mecca .. in SL.. as a form of protest...
  584. [10:30]  any1 Gynoid: yesterday...
  585. [10:30]  You: LOL
  586. [10:30]  Alaya Kumaki: wow
  587. [10:30]  any1 Gynoid: the consensus is that it would cause WW III
  588. [10:30]  Alaya Kumaki: loll sure
  589. [10:30]  any1 Gynoid: then there would be peace lol
  590. [10:31]  Alaya Kumaki: they have paradoxycal lerdes
  591. [10:31]  Alaya Kumaki: leaders
  592. [10:31]  any1 Gynoid: smoking holes and bodies lying about ....
  593. [10:31]  Alaya Kumaki: after peaces is nature witout man
  594. [10:31]  any1 Gynoid: so many horrible things happening in RL... OMG... don't get me started
  595. [10:32]  Alaya Kumaki: no i wont... ;));Pp (what have u seen)
  596. [10:32]  any1 Gynoid: Hey Everyone! I would like to be your friends... if we are not yet... Cheers... u don't have to accept
  597. [10:32]  You: cheers any !!!!
  598. [10:33]  Alaya Kumaki: Cheers::)))
  599. [10:33]  You: SustanableLove got asleep ... (?)
  600. [10:33]  You: :(
  601. [10:33]  Salahzar Stenvaag: Nice discussion on leadership
  602. [10:34]  Salahzar Stenvaag: thanks any1 alaya etc
  603. [10:34]  You: tx sal :)
  604. [10:34]  Salahzar Stenvaag: and thanks to Lapsus for offering this place
  605. [10:35]  Salahzar Stenvaag: and the idea of discussion itself
  606. [10:35]  any1 Gynoid: we are eternally grateful to Lapsus.... wonderful lad!!!.... I duv U madly!!! Cheers!
  607. [10:35]  You: that was from Keef
  608. [10:35]  You: :)
  609. [10:35]  Alaya Kumaki: yes , who got this idea?
  610. [10:35]  Alaya Kumaki: was it really keef?
  611. [10:35]  You: you both, if I remember well
  612. [10:36]  01 Hifeng: ok, going ;). bye.
  613. [10:36]  You: bye 01
  614. [10:36]  You: :)
  615. [10:36]  Alaya Kumaki: bye hifeng;)
  616. [10:36]  any1 Gynoid: i think KEEF is a leader... big time... she also gave us the ChatBot/Minsky discussion.. idea.. IMHO... that was the most fun... best discussion we've ever done
  617. [10:36]  any1 Gynoid: historic IMHO
  618. [10:37]  Alaya Kumaki: keef is a colorfull person yes
  619. [10:37]  You: alaya, what about the snow storm?
  620. [10:37]  Alaya Kumaki: it turn into gresill now
  621. [10:38]  You: fiuuuuuuuu
  622. [10:38]  Alaya Kumaki: maybe rain after,, dont now
  623. [10:38]  Alaya Kumaki: .. an electricity bakadge of line... as usuall
  624. [10:38]  Alaya Kumaki: breakage
  625. [10:39]  You: but you could keep your connection
  626. [10:39]  Alaya Kumaki: now yes
  627. [10:39]  You: ty Kariin:)
  628. [10:39]  Kariin Thorne: hi
  629. [10:40]  You: hi:)
  630. [10:40]  Salahzar Stenvaag: have good time all... go back to my SL hobbies :)
  631. [10:40]  Kariin Thorne: what do you talking about?
  632. [10:40]  any1 Gynoid: BBYE EVERYONE! I DUV U GUYS!!!
  633. [10:40]  You: ciao sal!
  634. [10:40]  You: bbyyee
  635. [10:40]  You: any1
  636. [10:40]  Alaya Kumaki: have fun on your star sahlazar
  637. [10:41]  You: so good bye also from me !
  638. [10:42]  You: I start saving chatlogs
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