RS vs FireOfDoom Nerf Judgement

rs vs Goldlizard
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rs R1:

> Blaziken's physicals rely on fake scaling to Sceptile. He's much weaker when not having a type advantage. Sceptile has bad physicals anyways

I can buy this, with some reservations:
- I agree Sceptile is stronger than Blaziken
- I agree Sceptile's durability antifeats are very bad
- I don't think type advantage means every Blaziken stat gets multiplied by 2x when fighting Sceptile, it just says his fire attacks do more damage. Some of these interactions don't even involve fire attacks
- The Sceptile roof breaking feat is legitimately good, I don't think this is an antifeat

> Doomguy has way better physicals. Breaks a statue. Very good durability feat

> Blaziken's moves are all telegraphed by May yelling commands. Doomguy's aren't. He's faster in practical terms and able to chain attacks

> Doomguy shoots Goldlizard's team. Sprays 5.000 fps bullets May has no way to avoid being hit by. His VIP also gets a gun

> Blaziken's feats vs piercing involve type advantage

I'm not sure I fully buy this working. This is the same attack that you showed destroying a roof earlier, and I haven't seen anything comparable for Doomguy's gun. I do agree Blaziken being pinned in place by this can be problematic for him

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Goldlizard R1:

> Doomguy's strength feats are suspect. They involve touching weird runes or hitting structures that already have cracks

I agree with this so far

> Blaziken has fire attacks that Doomguy has no answer to

I don't see from these links why these are "very powerful", there's nothing in these feats that make me think this has a heat component that could boil Doomguy through his armor

> Sceptile's actually super strong?

I'm sorry, I just don't see it. The twister feat is indeed bad, the explosion doesn't even show him being hit, and I'm not sure what "can hurt a legendary pokemon" even means in terms that can be applied to this debate

> Blaziken also has a type advantage vs bullets. Piercing feats

This is kind of a funny argument that RS pretty much walked into in his r1. I don't buy leaf blade scaling so far but the bullet seed feels real

> May is durable

I'm only going to address this now even though it comes back in both R2s. May does not have durability feats of her own. She is exactly as durable as Hiro, the rules are very clear about the stat equalization
- I think Hiro does better against bullets than May anyways, but neither are surviving a sustained barrage of gunfire at all

> Blaziken will block May from view

I don't think he's big enough for this, and there's still the issue of May giving herself away by yelling commands

> Blaziken is much faster

I buy he has better aerial mobility/jumping, but the feats linked for attack speed/reaction look pretty normal to me. The first one even has a timer on screen sinking it

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rs R2:

> May does not stand far away from Blaziken to avoid being shot and she gives herself away by yelling commands

I bought this even before you called it out, yeah

> Blaziken will open with a physical attack

This seems pretty unconvincing. Linking a single feat in which Blaziken starts much closer to his opponent than in the round hardly creates a pattern of behaviour, and I've already seen Blaziken is willing to use fire attacks from range. Generally not a fan of half-assed characterization arguments like these

> Blaziken's feats of protecting May from projectiles involve things that are not demonstrably fast. Doomguy's bullets are

Yeah

> Things shining in Doom does not mean they are less durable

Sure, but the statue Doomguy hits still looks cracked, and the cube feat does not seem to be a strength feat

> Doomguy absorbs energy

It seems like a reach to call this a heat resistance feat, kind of feels like you want to have your cake and eat it too when arguing Doomguy is able to absorb 10 kilotons of energy but only if it isn't a physical attack, at least based on the evidence provided

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Goldlizard R2:

> Link to RT

Yeah sorry not opening that. You still need to link the feats

> Team RS will find Blaziken first

I don't think this is a meaningful distinction given how close he stands to May and the amount of bullets they fire

> Talking is a free action

I agree that pokemon aren't subhuman speed just because of media conventions, but there's an ocean of distance between conceding that and buying Blaziken can remotely react to the bullets

> Doomguy has bad strength feats

This I also believe but I still haven't seen a single Blaziken strength feat, so idk if it matters

> Sceptile can cut metal

Much better than the regirock interaction. At this point I'm fairly convinced Blaziken won't instantly die if shot

> Blaziken can evaporate large amounts of water

This really feels like it should've been argued way before this point, but idk if I'm convinced. It looks like the fireball is in fact extinguished by the water, we even see May lose points because of this. If there's some context I'm missing it should have been linked


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Conclusion:

RS wins. At the end of the day, it comes down to the fact that both Doomguy and Henderson shoot a fuckload of bullets, and none of the arguments about why May could survive this or avoid this from happening landed.

The alternative win condition of Blaziken using fire attacks has potential, as I wasn't really convinced about either of RS's picks having meaningful heat resistance, but there isn't much about these attacks being hot enough to be the instant win button Goldlizard argues them to be. The fact that the guns have better range, speed, firerate and that there's 2 of them all also make RS's wincon seem far more likely

If there's one piece of unsolicited feedback I'd give both debaters, is to spend more efforts establishing your own characters and wincons before countering your opponent's. RS starting the debate by arguing against Sceptile scaling that hadn't been even introduced yet felt like a waste of characters, almost none of it mattered in regards to what his win condition was. In the same vein, Goldlizard jumping straight to rebuttals as his opening cost him a lot, you had solid points about Doomguy lacking heat resistance or having mediocre strength feats, but without establishing Blaziken's own heat and strength feats first, this argument didn't really segue into a viable winpath