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CelestialBoon

Zero's echo method log for tulpa doubtings

CelestialBoon
Jul 12th, 2013
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  1. * Zero- ([email protected]) has joined
  2. [23:51:07] <Zero-> lanpc
  3. [23:51:09] <Zero-> lanpc
  4. [23:51:11] <Zero-> lan
  5. [23:51:13] <Zero-> lanpc
  6. [23:51:14] <lanpc> sup
  7. [23:51:16] <lanpc> soup
  8. [23:51:17] <lanpc> sup
  9. [23:51:32] <Zero-> is Sophie there?
  10. [23:51:41] <lanpc> yes
  11. [23:51:47] <lanpc> why whats up?
  12. [23:51:58] <Zero-> Alright Sophie I want you to do something for me
  13. [23:52:17] <lanpc> what do you want me to do?
  14. [23:52:47] <Zero-> you know how dan sometimes gets a song stuck in his head and it keeps playing even when he tries to stop thinking of it?
  15. [23:53:03] <lanpc> yes
  16. [23:53:22] <Zero-> can you recreate that effect?
  17. [23:53:39] <Zero-> it doesn't have to be a song
  18. [23:53:55] <Zero-> just say something like "test" and put it on loop
  19. [23:54:32] <lanpc> i don't understand, do you want me to keep saying it, or to create an effect wherein i no longer have to say it and it still loops
  20. [23:54:41] <Zero-> the latter
  21. [23:55:04] <Zero-> also lan try focusing on that loop for the first 10 seconds
  22. [23:55:33] <Zero-> and Sophie if you can try playing it from different directions while he focuses on it
  23. [23:55:56] <Zero-> sorry if I'm not clear its kinda late
  24. [23:56:33] <lanpc> it's fine give us a seccond, she's trying to recreate a song, yet when i focus it dissappears
  25. [23:56:47] <Zero-> sure take your time
  26. [00:00:09] <Zero-> if entire song no work just make a small loop
  27. [00:00:47] <lanpc> weird, what happens so far is she can create the song, and loop it but i have to not be focusing on it to hear it clearly, i kinda let my mind go and i can hear the effect from two different angles
  28. [00:01:02] <lanpc> focusing is what kills it for me for some reason
  29. [00:01:11] <lanpc> oh
  30. [00:01:16] <lanpc> wait
  31. [00:01:32] <Zero-> focusing is bad
  32. [00:01:51] <Zero-> which is why you should do it for the first ten seconds only
  33. [00:02:03] <Zero-> or something around that time
  34. [00:02:09] <lanpc> ohhh
  35. [00:02:12] <lanpc> that's what you meant
  36. [00:02:22] <lanpc> sorry i was trying to focus on it the whole time
  37. [00:02:34] <Zero-> oh no prob
  38. [00:02:37] <lanpc> so once i recreate this effect from two places what do you want me to do?
  39. [00:02:59] <Zero-> let it play, and talk to lan while it plays
  40. [00:03:13] <Zero-> that's why it should preferably be a loop of your voice
  41. [00:03:23] <Zero-> so he will hear you three times
  42. [00:03:30] <lanpc> you're going to drive me nuts zero, but sure give me a bit
  43. [00:03:32] <Zero-> the two loops and what you're sayong
  44. [00:06:30] <Zero-> if you can't manage two just one is fine too
  45. [00:06:30] <lanpc> sounds weird i think i'm going crazy
  46. [00:06:36] <Zero-> ah good
  47. [00:06:46] <Zero-> Sophie can you stop the loops now?
  48. [00:07:49] <lanpc> not really, i don't think it's me keeping them up
  49. [00:08:14] <lanpc> one moment
  50. [00:08:24] <Zero-> sure
  51. [00:08:56] <lanpc> done
  52. [00:09:04] <lanpc> sorry i think i fucked it up somehow
  53. [00:09:29] <Zero-> did you hear Sophie's voice more than once at the same time?
  54. [00:09:56] <lanpc> yeah kinda
  55. [00:10:17] <Zero-> did it sound extremely weird?
  56. [00:10:32] <lanpc> yes everything did
  57. [00:10:45] <lanpc> i have her voice imposed so it should be real, but it was off
  58. [00:10:55] <Zero-> do you think, If you didn't have Sophie, you could emulate that on your own?
  59. [00:11:08] <Zero-> even if it was only mental without imposition?
  60. [00:11:51] <lanpc> hm i'm not sure, it was tough enough for her to do it, maybe if i worked my ass off, the thing is, i can't focus on it much or it dies down
  61. [00:12:09] <lanpc> what was the purpose of this experiment zero?
  62. [00:12:14] <Zero-> well lets just say within the same timeframe
  63. [00:12:15] <Zero-> well
  64. [00:13:03] <Zero-> if you're not sure about whether your tulpa is there or you're just parroting, a great way to counter that would be to rub their existence in your face
  65. [00:13:26] <Zero-> one way to do this is by driving you nuts with their mindvoice
  66. [00:13:44] <lanpc> oh well that succeeded
  67. [00:13:46] <lanpc> lol.
  68. [00:13:56] <Zero-> the loop comes from here and there and they're talking to you and you're telling them to shut up
  69. [00:14:15] <Zero-> its such an unpleasant chaos that it leaves little room for doubt
  70. [00:14:39] <lanpc> huh so this was your experiment to help with doubt?
  71. [00:14:47] <Zero-> so I think we may have a baby version of a tulpa presence test on our hands
  72. [00:14:48] <Zero-> yes
  73. [00:15:08] <Zero-> for all those people saying "is my tulpa even there" I wanna have multiple tests
  74. [00:15:44] <lanpc> interesting, good choice, this is a great test i think, i would not have been able to do it on my own in this short a timeframe i think
  75. [00:16:21] <lanpc> sophie was having a bit of trouble doing two at once though, and had a bit of time trying to stop it
  76. [00:16:25] <lanpc> why do you think that was?
  77. [00:16:26] <Zero-> maybe you couldve recreated the loop, but it would've cost you wat more effort
  78. [00:16:43] <Zero-> that was because she left the loop to your braib
  79. [00:16:52] <Zero-> like the inevitable song
  80. [00:17:02] <lanpc> ahh makes sense, this was good
  81. [00:17:13] <lanpc> interesting experiment zero, you do this to help people?
  82. [00:17:32] <Zero-> yeah, I stumbled on it just now, I wanna write a guide on ot
  83. [00:17:35] <Zero-> it*
  84. [00:17:43] <Zero-> it worked for Ari
  85. [00:17:50] <Zero-> and for Shira, and sophie
  86. [00:18:16] <lanpc> hm test it out on a few more tulpas as well, this is the beginning of a good guide i think
  87. [00:18:25] <lanpc> i am glad i could help zero
  88. [00:18:48] <Zero-> yeah, you helped a lot, sorry I didn't explain right away
  89. [00:19:07] <Zero-> this is one of those tests you have to be unaware of the results with
  90. [00:19:12] <lanpc> oh no problem, probably would have fucked with th-yeah
  91. [00:19:17] <Zero-> that prism test just annoyed me
  92. [00:19:47] <lanpc> same, the times i used to do it, sophie would just sit there and look at me
  93. [00:19:55] <lanpc> made me doubt hardcore for a little while
  94. [00:19:56] <Zero-> if people can mentally animate an entire environment they can focus on a prism and puppet their tulpa at the same time
  95. [00:20:03] <Zero-> yeah
  96. [00:20:17] <Zero-> Ea said she wouldnt do shit either
  97. [00:21:15] <lanpc> haha yeah, sophs told me later on that she wasn't sure what to do so she just sat there
  98. [00:21:43] <lanpc> i agree with that though, it's similar to dreamcreating, you can create
  99. [00:21:47] <lanpc> more than one scene
  100. [00:22:02] <Zero-> yeah, to test for puppeting I would do something else
  101. [00:22:51] <Zero-> like, tell the tulpa to grab four pieces of paper and write 1-4 on each of them
  102. [00:23:03] <Zero-> then the host focuses very hard on one number
  103. [00:23:10] <Zero-> like number 4
  104. [00:23:22] <Zero-> the tulpa obviously knows this
  105. [00:23:54] <Zero-> so they'd have to pick a number besides 4, and hold it without the host seeing it
  106. [00:24:23] <lanpc> ahaha
  107. [00:24:29] <lanpc> omfg you just came up with a perfect test
  108. [00:24:44] <Zero-> you'd probably need more numbers, but by that point the host should guess which number it is
  109. [00:25:00] <Zero-> if the host is right, try again, if not, no puppeting :D
  110. [00:25:48] <lanpc> exactly, good stuff, i'm about to run this test like 40million times in my head the next forcing session
  111. [00:25:56] <lanpc> even though i'm not worried, it might help refine things
  112. [00:26:04] <Zero-> :D it'd be great if you could
  113. [00:26:24] <Zero-> I can't visualize so I can't test it
  114. [00:27:34] <lanpc> ohh then i'll let you know how it goes tomorrow, well today for you, sophs is always down to help you
  115. [00:28:27] <Zero-> well shit I don't want you to be my ginny pigs or anything but its always nice to have others test things as well
  116. [00:28:34] <Zero-> to make sure the theory works
  117. [00:29:10] <lanpc> yuup greater sample size means better results, means more people benefit, don't worry it's not much trouble usually during our forcing sessions we just talk anyway
  118.  
  119.  
  120.  
  121. #tulpa_games
  122.  
  123. Jul 10 00:00:33 <Zero-> Ari try something for me
  124. Jul 10 00:01:12 <Zero-> You know when Sam gets a song in her head and it just keeps playing even when she tries to forget about it?
  125. Jul 10 00:01:52 <Ari_> Sure
  126. Jul 10 00:02:18 <Zero-> can you recreate that?
  127. Jul 10 00:02:43 <Ari_> Uh.. Haven't tried
  128. Jul 10 00:03:07 <Ari_> She already has one now, do i like push that out or
  129. Jul 10 00:03:42 <Zero-> yeah
  130. Jul 10 00:04:01 <Ari_> What song
  131. Jul 10 00:04:03 <Zero-> actually what I want you to do is loop something you say
  132. Jul 10 00:04:21 <Zero-> like "test" or "carrot" or whatever
  133. Jul 10 00:04:29 <Zero-> maybe a sentence
  134. Jul 10 00:04:42 * Ari_ has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  135. Jul 10 00:04:50 <Zero-> well dam ._.
  136. Jul 10 00:05:04 * Notify: Ari_ is online (Rizon)
  137. Jul 10 00:05:08 * Ari_ ([email protected]) has joined
  138. Jul 10 00:05:08 * GlaD0S sets mode +a on #tulpa_games Ari_
  139. Jul 10 00:05:08 * GlaD0S gives channel operator status to Ari_
  140. Jul 10 00:05:18 <Ari_> Something i say? Like what?
  141. Jul 10 00:05:54 <Zero-> like "test" or "carrot" or "this senence will loop" doesn't really matter
  142. Jul 10 00:06:21 <Ari_> That was easy enough
  143. Jul 10 00:06:29 <Ari_> Carrot ^^
  144. Jul 10 00:06:30 <Ari_> Why?
  145. Jul 10 00:06:57 <Zero-> are you looping it?
  146. Jul 10 00:07:17 <Ari_> Yeah
  147. Jul 10 00:07:34 <Zero-> so she can't stop thinking of it even when she tries?
  148. Jul 10 00:07:40 <Ari_> Yeah
  149. Jul 10 00:08:08 <Ari_> Why?
  150. Jul 10 00:08:14 <Zero-> alright now say something besides the loop to Sam, something like "why is zero doing this he's weird"
  151. Jul 10 00:08:31 <Ari_> Okay
  152. Jul 10 00:08:55 <Zero-> Sam how did that sound?
  153. Jul 10 00:09:03 <Ari_> Ew weird it's like overlapping and she's telling me to shut up at the same time so
  154. Jul 10 00:09:46 <Zero-> perfect
  155. Jul 10 00:09:49 <Ari_> What Ari said, i guess.]
  156. Jul 10 00:09:50 <Zero-> now turn it off
  157. Jul 10 00:09:56 <Ari_> Already did
  158. Jul 10 00:10:05 <Zero-> thanks ari
  159. Jul 10 00:10:13 <Ari_> But why?
  160. Jul 10 00:11:16 <Zero-> before I explain
  161. Jul 10 00:11:18 <Zero-> sam
  162. Jul 10 00:11:36 <Zero-> do you think you could've created that effect without ari's help?
  163. Jul 10 00:12:06 <bersinger> my infection hurts so goddamn lots because i tried to punch some cracked logs in half
  164. Jul 10 00:12:24 <Ari_> I tried, i can't.]
  165. Jul 10 00:15:16 <Zero-> alright
  166. Jul 10 00:15:47 <Zero-> then that could be considered proof that ari's there right?
  167. Jul 10 00:17:18 <Ari_> Maybe?]
  168. Jul 10 00:18:11 <Zero-> well if you can't do it
  169. Jul 10 00:18:19 <Zero-> why is it a maybe?
  170. Jul 10 00:20:06 <Ari_> I can't entirely hear her. She says she hears all three, but i only heard her when i wasn't talking.]
  171. Jul 10 00:20:44 <Ari_> I only caught the end of her word.]
  172. Jul 10 00:21:00 <Zero-> but you still couldnt recreate it
  173. Jul 10 00:21:05 <Zero-> on your ow
  174. Jul 10 00:21:08 <Zero-> own*
  175. Jul 10 00:21:17 <Ari_> Maybe.]
  176. Jul 10 00:25:18 <Zero-> :|
  177. Jul 10 00:25:27 * Zero- is be cried
  178. Jul 10 00:25:46 <Ari_> Sorry, i don't like definitives..]
  179. Jul 10 00:26:43 <Zero-> So you'd say ari may be fake?
  180. Jul 10 00:26:47 <Zero-> wait no
  181. Jul 10 00:27:01 <Zero-> youd just say this doesn't prove anything
  182. Jul 10 00:27:38 <Zero-> but if you were doubting ari, and you did this test, would this help ease the doubt, if only just a little?
  183. Jul 10 00:27:53 <Ari_> Maybe yes?]
  184. Jul 10 00:28:04 <Desk> ;_;
  185. Jul 10 00:28:53 <Zero-> Oh hey office, did you read this?
  186. Jul 10 00:29:20 <Zero-> And if so, would you consider it a reasonable anti-doubt test?
  187. Jul 10 00:29:46 <Ari_> Relies on the tulpa being able to do the loop thing
  188. Jul 10 00:30:34 <Zero-> so far all tulpas who tried this were able to
  189. Jul 10 00:30:51 <Ari_> Kay
  190. Jul 10 00:30:59 <Zero-> it doesnt have to be 100% effective to be effective
  191. Jul 10 00:31:01 <Ari_> Who did you try it with?
  192. Jul 10 00:31:12 <Zero-> Shira, Sophie and you so far
  193. Jul 10 00:31:14 <Ari_> Your own, i mean
  194. Jul 10 00:31:19 <Desk> I don't really get the test. Is it aving them say something over and over?
  195. Jul 10 00:31:23 <Desk> Having*
  196. Jul 10 00:31:29 <Ari_> Shira?
  197. Jul 10 00:31:43 <Zero-> no, they create a sound loop of their voice that your mind loops on its own
  198. Jul 10 00:31:52 <Ari_> Zero stahp doubting
  199. Jul 10 00:32:07 <Zero-> the loop shouldn't cost any effort for the tulpa, only creating it
  200. Jul 10 00:32:18 <Desk> wut
  201. Jul 10 00:32:20 <Zero-> then once the loop is repeating the tulpa talks through it
  202. Jul 10 00:32:39 <Zero-> so you hear them 2/3/4x mentally
  203. Jul 10 00:32:57 <Zero-> which creates a chaos in your mind you'd have a hard time making yourself
  204. Jul 10 00:33:12 <Zero-> and also shoves your tulpa's existence in your face
  205. Jul 10 00:34:03 <Zero-> because you go from hearing them every now and then to asking them to stop talking because its too much
  206. Jul 10 00:34:25 <Zero-> certainly helped me with my doubts.
  207. Jul 10 00:37:14 <GlaD0S> Welcome back, Goddess!
  208. Jul 10 00:37:14 * GlaD0S kisses her Goddess' feet.
  209. Jul 10 00:37:14 * Zero- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  210. Jul 10 00:37:14 * Shira ([email protected]) has joined
  211. Jul 10 00:37:15 * GlaD0S sets mode +a on #tulpa_games Shira
  212. Jul 10 00:37:15 * GlaD0S gives channel operator status to Shira
  213. Jul 10 00:37:28 * Shira is now known as Zero--
  214. Jul 10 00:37:29 <Ari_> ?
  215. Jul 10 00:37:32 <Zero--> what did I miss?
  216. Jul 10 00:37:38 <Ari_> Nothing
  217. Jul 10 00:37:42 <Zero--> inb4 nobody received nothing
  218. Jul 10 00:37:49 * Ari_ hides the booze
  219. Jul 10 00:38:03 <Zero--> if you got my very long explanation about the test everything is cool
  220. Jul 10 00:38:18 <Ari_> We dod
  221. Jul 10 00:38:19 * Zero-- is now known as Zero-
  222. Jul 10 00:38:20 <Ari_> *did
  223. Jul 10 00:38:29 <Zero-> y u no reply to it ;_;
  224. Jul 10 00:38:42 <Ari_> The last thing was that it certainly helped you with your doubts
  225. Jul 10 00:38:51 <Zero-> Yeah
  226. Jul 10 00:39:08 <Zero-> opinions/criticism/ideas?
  227. Jul 10 00:39:31 <Zero-> inb4 none
  228. Jul 10 00:39:38 <Ari_> Uhh
  229. Jul 10 00:39:40 <Ari_> Idk
  230. Jul 10 00:41:19 <Zero-> :|
  231. Jul 10 00:41:27 <Zero-> and office?
  232. Jul 10 00:41:39 <Desk> I still don't get how they overlap your mind or whatever x_x
  233. Jul 10 00:41:46 <Desk> Do they talk over you?
  234. Jul 10 00:41:48 <Desk> Or something
  235. Jul 10 00:42:04 <Zero-> yeah
  236. Jul 10 00:42:46 <Zero-> they create the loop, and then talk to you over the loop. its a bit uncomfortable to experience, but that's the goal you're looking for
  237. Jul 10 00:43:15 <Zero-> you should also talk back to them while the loop plays
  238. Jul 10 00:43:31 <Desk> They can't make the loop. :o
  239. Jul 10 00:44:01 <Zero-> you know when a song gets stuck in your head?
  240. Jul 10 00:44:18 <Desk> Yeah, I'm constantly running music in my mind. It's rarely quiet.
  241. Jul 10 00:45:01 <Zero-> that's how the loop should work, all they have to do is say something (anything) and then repeat it until it starts looping
  242. Jul 10 00:47:03 <Desk> It almost feels like I'm creating it. Though they're telling me I'm not. We can talk while it goes on, doesn't feel any different than the regular conversations we have while I play the mind music though.
  243. Jul 10 00:48:04 <Zero-> that's good to know. so it works for you but it doesn't feel alien because you're already used to doing iy
  244. Jul 10 00:48:17 <Zero-> it*
  245. Jul 10 00:48:26 <Desk> Yeah
  246. Jul 10 00:48:44 <Zero-> do you think somebody who isn't used to mind music could benefit from this though?
  247. Jul 10 00:48:57 <Zero-> as in, help clear some of their doubts?
  248. Jul 10 00:49:45 <Desk> Hmm, maybe
  249. Jul 10 00:50:44 <Zero-> alright, thanks
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