Sorry for the brevity of these judgments in advance, I'm just very busy, and not feeling very well.

Tarro vs Ken

This matchup was basically based around two things. I believe Drizzt and Qingshan can one shot each other. So to determine who wins, you have to determine who reacts faster, or who lands the first blow.

Tarro's argument that Qingshan comes from a verse where they dodge bullets whereas Drizzt comes from a verse where they dodge arrows was...wholly underwhelming. It doesn't matter how fast the projectiles in your verse are - what matters is how fast you can react to them and how fast you can move to intercept/dodge them. While I don't think Ken's speed arguments were great they were better than Tarro's in that they didn't use that strange bridge of logic.

So the other big argument was stealth, who lands a blow on who first. Tarro did considerably better here, claiming Qingshan could just get the lens of truth and retreat behind a fake wall, extremely good use of the arena. Unfortunately he did not pre empt the fact that Drizzt has blatantly better travel speed than Qingshan as Ken listed in his second response. I believe Drizzt reaches the centre faster and denies Qingshan that advantage.

There were some other minor details like how Drizzt's armor would do well against Qingshan's throwing knives but I think that's fairly irrelevant.

This match goes to Ken, not much more to say.

Andrew vs Talv

This was a decent debate, Andrew's first response notwithstanding, both sides rebutted each other fairly well at a lot of points, yada yada, but Andrew lost the big points, speed and skill. To sum up: Talvasha immediately presented a strong argument for Gaolang's speed in his R1 attacked Raian's big speed feat, and Andrew when he decided to tackle it R2 gave a halfhearted defense that used unquantifiable speed scaling from Ohma. I've read the series, but to anybody who hasn't Raian is just being scaled off a fast guy who got faster. Skill was never countered either, so in my eyes Gaolang basically is not getting hit.

This could have been fine, as Andrew did give a decent rebuttal towards Talvasha's attempt to present Gaolang as absurdly durable, but what he didn't defend as well was Talvasha's attack on Raian's strength.

So essentially at the end here I've got:

- Gaolang struggles to hurt Raian (pro Andrew)
- Gaolang is way faster and more skilled than Raian to the point where he should realistically not be getting hit (massively pro Talv)
- Gaolang's durability isn't great, but Raian's strikes were argued to be insufficient enough to immediately take him down (more pro Talv than Andrew)

All in all Talv proved what won him the debate more, so he wins.

Corv vs Verlux

Artemis isn't OOT as presented.

Coco vs Guy

Both sides in this debate effectively conceded one major argument, or didn't follow up on it well:

* Coco pretty much never established a proper baseline for Saw Paing's speed, Guy powerbombed this argument and actually provided some skill for Neji
* Buuuuuut Guy never actually established anything for Neji's offense beyond the chakra point argument, which means that Coco's points about the durability for Saw Paing's ability to take body blows falls through

From here the argument devolved into discussion on Naruto lore when neither debater has actually read the series, epic.

In the end, though, Guy didn't actually prove what he needed to prove about Neji's win con working - not only was he just straight up wrong about the heart thing, but his entire line of reasoning (that Neji would somehow hit internals as opposed to attacking through his opponent's chakra system) was almost entirely unsubstantiated. The scans he was using blatantly show that Neji's attacks hit the Keiofuckerei or whatever the fuck it's called which Coco 100% called out.

So how I see the match is like this: Neji is faster than Saw Paing, more skilled than Saw Paing, can't get hit by Saw Paing, but has no real win condition because Saw Paing has somewhat real durability feats. Saw Paing at least has a standing win condition, if a poor one, so narrowly I'm giving this to Coco.

Corv vs Vlux

Corv R1

Speed
* Buffy can catch a crossbow bolt from close range, Artemis dodges hand crossbows from an unspecified distance
* Buffy is an aim dodger vs. skilled opponents
Doesn't really matter but ok
* Buffy is better since dodging guns > bows
???? It doesn't really matter what the speed of the projectile is, it's the reaction
* Buffy can catch swung weapons
Why does this matter, how fast are these weapons moving
* Buffy's scythe can cut Artemis
Doesn't belong here but ok

Makes a strong starting statement, but gets bogged down by a lot of weird fluff

Strength
* Buffy strong
* Artemis weak, has no strength feats

Durability
* Artemis's durability doesn't exist

Stealth
* Buffy has a danger sense that alerts her to supernatural things
* Also can alert her to non-vampires
* Artemis is supernatural, because of some FR mumbo jumbo

Decent response, but felt a bit too bogged down in unnecessary details at several points, and could've used more pre-initiative.

Verlux R1

Speed
* Buffy's arrow catches are equally as vague as Entreri's because distance is unknown
* Artemis is casually FTE
Ooh my favorite

Stealth
* Buffy's danger sense doesn't work on regular humans, it's just her not being stupid
* A Shadovar person thing isn't supernatural because Corvette didn't prove it

Reactions
* Buffy catching Artemis's weapons is actually suuuuper bad

Durability
* Entreri can cut through Buffy
* Entreri's swords are better than real swords because blah blah FR lore
Definitely wasted too much time on this point, but I guess vlux wants to advertise FR

Stealth, Again
Put this into one section u cuck
* Drizzt has danger sense too, which Entreri doesn't trip
* Entreri can use Ash Walls to escape Drizzt's sight
Why is this impressive

This is a stronger response than Corv's, and more concise which is always solid. However Verlux does spend too long in some areas and not others, and I personally hate FTE

Corv R2

* Reasserts what Verlux didn't address for R1

Speedy Gonzales
* Artemis's FTE is fake
All FTE is fake
* Provides a calc for Buffy's reaction times, and claims that the movement/precision aspect makes it more solid than Entreri's feats alone
* Drops a lot of speed arguments here tho
* Buffy could catch Artemis's attacks, but won't always, and provides more examples of her catching wrists/arms/etc. than her catching weapons
Really beautiful recovery here

Supernatural
Why is this such a big part of this argument
* Shades can age you ten years younger
* Shades are made of extradimensional shadow shit
* Buffy's danger sense works on vampire slayers who are human

Durability
* Buffy can take a lot of piercing damage and continue fighting
* Buffy has some measure of piercing resistance given she can fall into a pile of bladed weapons and not get cut
:descarte:
* Buffy's will is stronger
This struck me as a really funny point, as Verlux was going on about how Corvette wasn't proving that weird shadow monsters were supernatural in R1, but then made the assertion without evidence that Artemis would just beat Buffy in a battle of wills.

More Danger Sense
* Drizzt's danger sense doesn't work on Entreri because Entreri knows how to work around it
* A lot of Drizzt's 'danger sense' stuff is only due part of his senses/environment
* Drizzt's danger sense isn't 'supernatural'

Really great response from Corv here, less bogged down by unnecessary detail, really focuses on why he wins and establishes stronger proof onto why he wins.

Verlux R2

CARRY ON MY WAYWARD SON
- Defines supernatural
- Shadovar things aren't supernatural in the Drizztverse
- Corvette didn't prove they were supernatural in the Buffyverse
Lore arguments on a series I've never read, epic
- Buffy has no feats for sensing a shade-person
:descartes:
- Buffy sensing the vampire slayer is fake news, and isn't provably with danger sense

Speed
- No the sailor scan is actually FTE
- Corv is focusing on flowery language, and not the relevant part of the feat
- Moooooore FTE
:pepescream:
- Buffy's movement speed as shown in her danger sense scan is really slow
- Artemis has pre-initiative
- Provides a calc
This is not a good calc by any metric. Why are you lowballing the wererat's reactions to 350 ms, just so it can conveniently come out to higher than Buffy's calc? Why are you equating how fast Drizzt can swing a sword to how fast he can react to something. Even if you were to say "well Drizzt attacks this fast, Entreri dodges it" that's not necessarily reactions. Conor McGregor throws a jab in like ~300 ms, do you think the people he fights react in 300 ms? Absolutely terrible. And this is before Verlux was going on about pre-initiative that doesn't necessitate him to react that fast to dodge or intercept Drizzt's attacks.

Corv's calc, while it did have the issue in failing to quantify how fast Buffy would have to be moving to catch the crossbow bolt, was a totally reasonable assumption that gave a basis for why he assumed that distance, and was actually relevant for reactions. Huge point loss for Verlux here, especially since he's going all in on the FTE garbage

Skill
- Feat dump for Entreri's skill
- Buffy's grappling functionally doesn't matter since Entreri is more skilled
- Ghost Steps, feints within feints, and sudden Ash Walls would murk Buffy

Lasting Points
- Charon's Claw would work because willpower isn't endurance, and Artemis has more willpower than a drow
??????
- Has his vampire dagger which heals him

Definitely not a strong final response from Verlux here - he introduces topics Corv can't refute in his last response which I'm not a fan of, and the speed arguments were...wholly unimpressive. At the very least Verlux cast aspersions well on some of Buffy's linked feats.

Final Tally
Pro Corv
- Buffy's speed is at least real, and doesn't rely on a jank metric like FTE and uses a reliable calc
- Whether or not Charon's Claw works is vague and not a real win con
- The vampire dagger thing may help Entreri, but Verlux didn't provide real durability for Entreri so Buffy one shots via raw strength
- Buffy is stronger and just hitting Entreri would beat him
- Buffy can pierce Entreri

Pro Verlux
- Entreri is massively more skilled
- Entreri has solidly better movement speed
- Entreri has Ash Walls which can turn around the fight in his favor
- Entreri can pierce Buffy

Assorted Pts.
- I didn't like how it was just...assumed that Entreri would immediately go for stealth. I know your characters, and if Corv actually did try to address how Verlux never made a strong argument that Entreri would immediately or always try to engage his opponent in a stealth-y way he would likely get shot down. But you still need to actually make that argument.
- The supernatural thing is frankly a headache on both sides. I think Verlux at least saying that the shade thing being just a theory of Jarlaxle's is enough to sway me more to his side of the matter slightly, but both sides I feel were one argument away from actually solidly convincing me.

OOT Request: Entreri

Artemis isn't OOT as presented. While it's true he has marginally worse reactions than the TS as argued by Verlux he was never actually defined in terms of how fast he can move in combat. I think people tend to equate reaction speed to just overall combat speed. I think I could have been convinced Artemis was OOT, but from an unbiased standpoint simply saying Artemis is slightly slower than the TS in reactions isn't enough.

That being said I disliked how Verlux claimed the TS was 'trained in stealth' when in the signup post he considerably overplayed the stealth difference between Entreri and the TS.

So this was a good match to read overall, very close.

Corv's speed arguments were pretty great by end of round, save one thing that Verlux touched on - how she visibly does not move that fast in her show. That being said this advantage wasn't driven nearly as hard as it should've been but it cast doubt on how fast I believe Buffy moves regardless of how fast she can react. I buy Corvette's calc, though, and he dropped a lot of the weird stuff from R1 (Buffy is faster than Artemis because bullets > arrows...?). His calc would have been stronger if he quantified how fast Buffy had to actually move to intercept the arrow though.

This is in comparison to Verlux who used an awful lot of...FTE arguments. I hate FTE. FTE is not a speed. If you're going to say someone is FTE, then quantify it. Verlux didn't. Also the calc Verlux made was not great - why are the wererat's reactions being lowballed to the point where they're conveniently faster than Buffy? You could just lowball them further to 500 ms and it would be equally as vague of a calc. Why is how fast Drizzt can attack being equated to how fast Entreri can react?

So in a match where both people can one shot each other and I believe one reacts faster, with one having a good movement speed feat and an antifeat and the other having vaguely fast movement/reactions, this would go to Buffy. However then we have the issue of stealth. Both debaters here made a lot of strange points in regards to lore. Buffy's danger sense feats against humans/slayers were provably not very good. On the other hand I don't think I buy that shadow people from another realm of existence aren't supernatural to Buffy's regular human world. However it was Verlux claiming that the shade absorption thing was merely a hypothesis of Jarlaxle's, and not really a provable fact, that made me slightly more inclined to believe Artemis wouldn't alert the danger sense.

And as far as I can tell, no solid arguments were made against the Ash Walls, which alone serve as a huge obstacle for Buffy. I think I could've been convinced that they wouldn't be, but Corv didn't put out an argument against them. I guess the danger sense argument was a catch-all.

As I see the fight, Entreri can stealth Buffy and attack her, and if that fails he can use the Ash Walls which she has literally no counter for. And since he one shots I guess he wins.

I give his victory extremely narrowly to Verlux. Had Corv pressed one or two key points I believe he almost certainly would have won however.

False vs EAD

OOT Response

As False didn't reply to this, Percy is OOT as presented. Scaling to taking hits from creatures that can move mountains while being more than 2x as fast as the TS with a ridiculous piercing option is absurdly OOT. I did tell you not to wank Percy on Discord, dude.

I am going to judge this match anyway, but False loses major points right off the bat for not reading the rules. You get 2 responses, 15k each, and please actually post your R2 to the main battle. Embrace replied to what you said in your first response and was given no real chance to actually rebut your win conditions since you didn't actually post them, which is unfair to her.

So calcs calcs calcs. Lotta reliance on them in this match for better or for worse. I don't think all of them were entirely necessary, but they happened.

Now here's the thing about calcs. Calcs are fine in determining how good your characters are in a specific stat. But you need to have a proper justification for your assertions in making them, and you need to actually compare them to your opponent. Embrace did this very well. She said Percy operated in whatever reaction times, Kanade operated faster than that, and calc'd how fast Kanade had to be moving her sword. I don't think her calcs are entirely legitimate, but they are nicely formatted and have good assertions.

I did not feel the same way about False's calcs. He used pixel calcs for a literature feat (??) and also assumed an arbitrary distance for how far away the police zombie shooting Percy was. Now that being said, I think False did a good job of waiving away Embrace's antifeats, and he also called out some of the flaws in her calcs about Percy. What he did not call out, and what was ultimately more important, was the flaws in Embrace's calcs about her own characters.

In general False attacked Embrace's win cons very little, only going after the hand sonics (a legit point) and how Kanade's travel speed was vaguely fast (though this doesn't really matter, and False used a sort of vague feat to calc Percy's own travel speed which Embrace rebutted).

Points about Percy having the armor, or whether or not Kanade can pierce the armor, I don't think ultimately matter as Kanade is being presented here as someone who would just cut Percy's head off. Again, I think False made a lot of valid points here, especially in regards to the durability of celestial bronze, but frankly I think Kanade would just cut his head off.

So since Kanade reacts faster, attacks faster, and can one shot, she wins.

As a concluding note, mostly to False here, it pays to be extremely concise with your wording and formatting. Honestly if you did as much as rebuke Embrace's calcs or interps on her own characters, instead of attacking her thoughts on your characters with wordy sentiments and copying huge paragraphs that eat up the character limit, while entirely focusing on *why you win*, I believe I may have been swayed.

To both debaters, you both have characters with swords and who operate at high speeds and who presumably kill the other person regularly in a single blow. Arguing details like strength, durability, etc. are not at all necessary. I think both of you could work on trimming your responses considerably.