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How to handle precedents

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Mar 24th, 2014
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  1. Pharaoh Atem: Tesla, be quiet.
  2. ! TechGenusFan !: he!
  3. Cesaritoqw: Omfg D:
  4. ! TechGenusFan !: btw all staff of dn is here
  5. ! TechGenusFan !: you see is not easy
  6. Cesaritoqw: I see
  7. Pharaoh Atem: This call has a special issue that many people are not equipped to deal with
  8. Pharaoh Atem: it's an issue one often doesn't face unless he is an RL judge
  9. Pharaoh Atem: Tesla, Cesar, you two will be silent while I explain the situation. No exceptions, and the appeal train stops with me.
  10. Cesaritoqw: If worth something, in the watchers chat there's a witness
  11. Cesaritoqw: Okay
  12. Pharaoh Atem: Irrelevant, I already know the situation in full detail, replete with timestamp.
  13. Cesaritoqw: Okay
  14. Pharaoh Atem: Neither of you have been properly passing the right to act back and forth
  15. Pharaoh Atem: this sets a bad precedent
  16. Pharaoh Atem: but one that must continue to be observed in this game until you both learn to pass the right to act back and forth properly
  17. Pharaoh Atem: also btw I was going to go to sleep but they called me in
  18. Pharaoh Atem: so be grateful
  19. Cesaritoqw: Sowy :3
  20. Cesaritoqw: so how we can go on?
  21. Pharaoh Atem: you will go on when I am finished
  22. Pharaoh Atem: I am not finished
  23. Cesaritoqw: Ok...
  24. Pharaoh Atem: Now, in proper gameplay, players're obligated to follow proper protocol regarding the right to act
  25. Pharaoh Atem: it is impossible for two players to act at the same time: at each given moment only ONE player may act
  26. Pharaoh Atem: this entire situation is born of a giant car crash of sorts wherein you both tried to get what you want out of a play, and we can't have that.
  27. Pharaoh Atem: Konami has provided ygo players across the world with a chart that can be used to understand how ygo works
  28. Pharaoh Atem: http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/gameplay/images/T-Flowchart_EN-US.jpg
  29. Pharaoh Atem: you are obligated now to save this chart.
  30. Pharaoh Atem: read it once I am done here.
  31. Pharaoh Atem: Now then
  32. Pharaoh Atem: to explain here
  33. Pharaoh Atem: I have to first explain how proper play would've handled this turn
  34. Pharaoh Atem: and then explain why that doesn't work here.
  35. Pharaoh Atem: in proper play, you'd start your turn
  36. Pharaoh Atem: conduct your normal draw
  37. Pharaoh Atem: see if anyone had a response to the draw
  38. Pharaoh Atem: ask to end the draw phase
  39. Pharaoh Atem: start the standby
  40. Pharaoh Atem: ask to end the standby
  41. Pharaoh Atem: start the main
  42. Pharaoh Atem: and then NS Retiarii.
  43. Pharaoh Atem: each time you'd ask to end a phase, that's an opportunity to say "no, you can't, because I wanna do something during the phase."
  44. Pharaoh Atem: this means that in properly handled gameplay, Mind Crush would've had several chances to be activated before the NS
  45. Cesaritoqw: Ya, I used to play that way, but a lot of rude boys went into "Stop asking" "I will say to you when I want to do something" "Stop stalling"
  46. Pharaoh Atem: but it'd have no chance to let your opp say "I wanted to mind crush the thing you just NS'd
  47. Pharaoh Atem: well, Cesar, ygo doesn't give a damn what those brats think. Rules are rules, and rules demand players clarify and play properly. I'm not here to tolerate the impatience of kids who have a conniption when someone tries to be polite, right?
  48. Cesaritoqw: Roger that
  49. Pharaoh Atem: clarity is politeness, and that's that.
  50. Pharaoh Atem: THAT SAID
  51. Pharaoh Atem: ygo takes a damn long time when you clarify in all cases, so players forego it
  52. Pharaoh Atem: and event staff lets it go as long as it doesn't cause problems
  53. Pharaoh Atem: and the way that they make it "not cause problems" is by recognizing precedents in how players "have rushed through gameplay" during a game
  54. Pharaoh Atem: for example
  55. Pharaoh Atem: if I conduct my normal draw
  56. Pharaoh Atem: and immediately attack after
  57. Pharaoh Atem: w/o checking for a response to the draw
  58. Pharaoh Atem: or to changing phases twice
  59. Pharaoh Atem: that would be a shortcut between "normal draw" and "attack declaration"
  60. Pharaoh Atem: a judge would make a note of that and then check to see if your opponent used the same shortcut in the game
  61. Pharaoh Atem: if he himself "conducted a normal draw and then immediately attacked"
  62. Pharaoh Atem: if you both use the same shortcut, the game deems that shortcut "not wanted, but tolerated"
  63. Pharaoh Atem: the shortcut becomes "established"
  64. Pharaoh Atem: that way.
  65. Pharaoh Atem: now, when a shortcut is established, the points of gameplay covered by that shortcut no longer require players to explicitly confirm if it is okay to proceed
  66. Pharaoh Atem: instead, the points of gameplay covered by an established and mutually used shortcut ALL treat SILENCE as permission to proceed
  67. Pharaoh Atem: if you don't speak up saying "stop" before someone does something you don't want them to do, it's too late, if an established shortcut is in place for this moment
  68. Pharaoh Atem: you NS'd Retiarii in a point in time covered by established shortcuts
  69. Pharaoh Atem: he didn't speak up w/ Mind Crush before the NS
  70. Pharaoh Atem: his chance to do it is gone, and he only has himself to blame.
  71. Pharaoh Atem: Not done
  72. Pharaoh Atem: you see that policy about shortcuts is coldhearted
  73. Pharaoh Atem: but the thing is, this is the fairest way to handle them without banning shortcut use outright
  74. Pharaoh Atem: and a ban on shortcuts will not work out, players will never comply with it either here or IRL
  75. Pharaoh Atem: In a game where shortcuts can be used, the one way to protect yourself from shortcuts harming you is "don't let them treat silence as permission to proceed"
  76. Pharaoh Atem: and shortcuts only treat silence as permission to proceed if the shortcut is established
  77. Pharaoh Atem: and it only gets established as part of the flow of gameplay if BOTH PLAYERS USE THE SAME SHORTCUT.
  78. Pharaoh Atem: Mutual use is the key
  79. Pharaoh Atem: which means "if you don't use any shortcuts at all, your opponent rushing through his own plays with shortcuts will not make you lose the right to act."
  80. Pharaoh Atem: If you use shortcuts, you open up the right for someone to presume silence as permission to play onward
  81. Pharaoh Atem: if you don't, you seal that up and protect yourself.
  82. Pharaoh Atem: Tesla used shortcuts, and so did you
  83. Pharaoh Atem: and they were the same shortcuts
  84. Pharaoh Atem: so Tesla can't watch you NS and then magically decide "I'm not ok with shortcuts anymore, put it back so I can mind crush it"
  85. Pharaoh Atem: Now then, that solves one problem in this call
  86. Pharaoh Atem: the second is intentions
  87. Pharaoh Atem: Does Atem think Tesla did this Mind Crush thing intentionally, with prior knowledge that it wasn't legal?
  88. Pharaoh Atem: No.
  89. Pharaoh Atem: Intent of wrongdoing with prior knowledge of the wrongness of said action is what separates procedural errors from cheating
  90. Pharaoh Atem: and I don't think Tesla knew any better
  91. Pharaoh Atem: so, Tesla gets a warning instead of a cheating ban.
  92. Pharaoh Atem: Tesla, Set that Mind Crush. it was activated illegally.
  93. Pharaoh Atem: (the circumstances under which it was activated were built on pretenses I had to clear up, and for that reason I had to rewind gameplay to the moment of NS to clear things up.)
  94. Pharaoh Atem: (at that time, Crush wasn't yet activated.)
  95. Cesaritoqw: Totally worth the read. Now onwards i'll know how to act in shortcuts games and non-shortcuts games
  96. Pharaoh Atem: (he may still respond to the summon by activating Crush.)
  97. Pharaoh Atem: the judge ethos regarding this issue IRL is simple
  98. Pharaoh Atem: "live by the sword, die by the sword"
  99. Pharaoh Atem: you can protect yourself if you play properly
  100. Cesaritoqw: Yup
  101. Pharaoh Atem: but if you think you're too cool or too impatient for proper play, shortcuts can be used
  102. Pharaoh Atem: but they can, and will, burn you given the chance.
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