Crim v. Potential

Crim v. Potential

Potential Response 1

- Neji v. Ark

 * Neji is stealthy enough to sneak up on trained warriors + has good senses to detect Ark

 * Neji has a technique that bypasses durability and targets his opponents heart + Ark's style is bad against this

 * Even if sneak attacks don't work Neji's techniques allow them to counter Ark's only viable means of attack - throwing things

- Faora v. Malenia

 * Malenia's piercing is superior to Faora's piercing resistance due to the amount of energy in her strike vs. energy of the bullet/she can block a large sword

 * Malenia has a reach advantage + can properly fly for a mobility edge

 * She is visually fast + can dodge various projectiles. In contrast Faora only has a eh bullet dodge feat

 * Malenia is more skilled + beats stronger characters + could infect Faora with scarlet rot (IDK what that does?), and has a huge slew of abilities that are hard to counter

- Cocytus vs Ja-Yoon

 * Ja-Yoon has no speed feats + lacks enough piercing resistance to take Cocytus' attacks.

 * Cocytus has a unique physiology and powers that make it difficult for Ja-Yoon to fight

 * Cocytus has various other soft advantages (ground freezing, magic deflection, and ice pillars)


Crim Response 1

- Provides some scaling clarification

- Neji vs Ark

 * Gentle fist doesn't work since it relies on Nartuo-verse specific in universe functions, which doesn't work on Ark as she's not from Naruto + even if it does work she has better internal resistance than a baseline human

 * Neji is explicitly not an arrow timer, struggles to dodge arrows and can barely move in the time it takes an arrow to move 50 m. In contrast Ark fights bullet timey people

 * Ark's attacks are stronger than anything Neji has taken

 * Ark has a good healing favtor

- Faora-Ul vs Malenia

 * Faora can throw heavy things + punch people through walls and withstand IHOP level attacks

 * Malenia lacks "real feats"

 * Malenia doesn't really abuse any of her powers/can't evade slow projectiles

 * Malenia's piercing is meh, and Faora can withstand 30 mm gunfire

- Ja-Yoon vs Coctyus

 * Reiterates the stuff from the Ark fight about how fast the people they fight are

 * Flowery language makes Coctyus' speed feats a lot more dubious

 * Remaining feats are just being vaguely faster than creatures

 * She can punch through walls

 * Ice stuff is not fast

Potential Response 2

- Agent Speed Scaling

 * Most of the agent speed feats aren't actually bullet timing, and the one that might be is more likely aim dodging

 * There are some issues with how they scale to the agents as well

- ADP1 vs Neji

 * Some of her scaling to the agents is dubious

 * She has good pain resistance, but not really any significant injury tolerance feats

 * Neji's stips let him still use his powers

 * Shores up Neji's arrow timing feat + provides anime context

 * Shores up Neji's internal attack argument

 * Ark has no dura

- Ja-Yoon vs Cocytus

 * Re-iterates how dubious some of the scaling is and highlights the scaling chains involved for both characters

 * Clarifies why Brian may have thought his attacks were instant wins, despite them failing

- Faora-Ul vs Malenia

 * Its uncontested that Malenia can hurt Faora

 * Faora has no speed feats

 * Counters a lot of Crim's video game v. reality statements



Crim Response 2

- ADP1 and Ja-Yoon Scaling

 * Ark and Ja-Yoon are both clearly and explicitly superior to all of the 1st Gen superhumans, who Crim is scaling to

 * Clarifies isn't scaling to bullet timing, he's just scaling to visually fast/clearly fast movement/combat speed

- Neji v. Ark

 * Neji is stipped to be manga, so anime feats are irrelevant

 * Stip doesn't allow for Gentle Fist, just seeing vital points

 * Superhumans in Ark's verse are very injury tolerant. They can survive without a heart

 * Even interpreting the arrow timing feat most generously, Neji is still moving really slow.

 * Neji's striking is less than stellar, and is definitely insufficient to withstand hits from Ark

- Faora vs Malenia

 * Faora's speed isn't great with a visually slow man dodging her attacks, she attacks with the slowest part of her blade

 * Malenia's actual feats don't indicate she's some super duper experienced fighter

 * Faora is in a space suit + Scarlet Fever win con is vague

 * If gameplay is factored in, she has a lot of anti-feats

 * She has no cutting feats

- Ja-Yoon vs Cocytus

 * Breaks down why Cocytus scaling is bad

 * Cocytus's durability is meh

 * She has a high healing factor

Potential Response 3

I ran out of time to do a full breakdown of this, but if you want one feel free to ask. I did read it all.

Judgement

Overall a really good debate, both debaters did an excellent job at arguing their points in a fairly concise and well thought matter. The results imo were very, very close.

In terms of how the fights go from my perspective:

 - Neji v. Ark: This goes to Ark. I largely bought Crim's argument that Ark scaled to being vaguely fast, while Neji's speed was dubious. I do think Neji can use their gentle fist on Ark, but with a speed disparity it will be hard to land, while I think Ark has the strength to win this.

 - Melania v. Faora: Faora wins this one. Faora seems to have a pretty decent brick powerset. I found the calc used for her sword to be iffy, especially in contrast to a bullet. Crim's argument that gameplay feats also include a number of anti-feats also seems believable

- Ja-Yoon vs Cocytus: Cocytus wins this one. I bought that he is as fast as Potential made him out to be, and that his sword would be able to do a lot of damage to Ja-Yoon. IDT Ja-Yoon is without a viable win con, but I think Cocytus is more likely.

Winner: Crim 2-1