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TheProfosist

@Home SAR PAR DAR Discussion

TheProfosist
Aug 4th, 2010
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  1. [01:41] <Hale> <~TheProfosist> its 32:27 for 16/9 and 8:9 for 4/3 <-- where did you get that?
  2. [01:46] <Hale> anyway.. entirely bs
  3. [01:47] <Hale> those two were as close as it could get with values that were memorizeable, but if you want to do it right > http://ps-auxw.de/cgi-bin/ar-calc.pl
  4. [01:48] <junh1024> &i also remember, 7/4 is quite close to 16/9
  5. [01:49] <Hale> just makes me wonder where he dug this up again <_<
  6. [01:52] <TheProfosist> well i dug it up because of the profile i gave to Kaiokane to encode with
  7. [01:52] <TheProfosist> i can give you what came out with what you suggested
  8. [01:52] <TheProfosist> nut its definatly wrong and stretched too much
  9. [01:52] <Hale> sure.. show me something that is off bo 0.01 percent xD
  10. [01:53] <TheProfosist> i calculated the 8:9 for 4:3
  11. [01:54] <Hale> based on the idea that... ?
  12. [01:54] <TheProfosist> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Z3H20T7B
  13. [01:55] <TheProfosist> but dl that
  14. [01:55] <TheProfosist> ill tell u how i came to what i did
  15. [01:56] |<-- Kaiokane has left irc.rizon.net (Quit: .•«UPP»•.)
  16. [01:57] <TheProfosist> 704*10)/(480*11) = 4/3
  17. [01:58] <TheProfosist> that calculates sar for a source of 704x480 analog source but dvds are 720x480 digital source
  18. [01:58] <Hale> *facepalm*
  19. [01:59] <TheProfosist> need more explaination?
  20. [01:59] <Hale> go ahead..
  21. [02:00] <TheProfosist> (((480*4)/3)/720)=0.88888 or 8/9
  22. [02:00] <torque> http://img811.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=streetfighterivthetiest.png
  23. [02:00] <torque> ugh
  24. [02:02] <TheProfosist> same way way used to find 16:9 by replacing the 4:3 in that algorithem
  25. [02:03] <Hale> long story short - you dug up generic par instead of itu
  26. [02:05] <TheProfosist> which is what we want for encoding
  27. [02:05] <torque> all those fonts suck
  28. [02:05] <torque> but do any of them suck less than the others?
  29. [02:05] <torque> also I need to go to bd
  30. [02:05] <torque> *bed
  31. [02:06] <TheProfosist> id say the first one but none of them really fit to me what do u think Hale
  32. [02:06] <Hale> more like "which might be considerable if you knew for a fact that the production was all-digital"
  33. [02:07] <TheProfosist> o yea i know it was
  34. [02:07] <TheProfosist> GwtBackerks
  35. [02:07] <TheProfosist> *GetBackers
  36. [02:07] <Hale> first one fits the military stuff shown in this scene, not sure about others
  37. [02:07] <Hale> didn't you tell me yesterday that the sharpness varies?
  38. [02:08] <Hale> this would obviously be a hint for analogue processing in-between
  39. [02:08] <TheProfosist> its strrefighter there militart and lots of fighting and blowing up
  40. [02:09] <TheProfosist> well if you dl and mux what in the mega upload link youll see the problem
  41. [02:09] <TheProfosist> o and you have to mux the file
  42. [02:10] <torque> aight thanks for feedback
  43. [02:10] <torque> I'll look for more later
  44. [02:11] <Hale> wtf? why the hell did you export as raw h264? <_<'
  45. [02:12] <TheProfosist> cause it was originally going to be VFR
  46. [02:12] <TheProfosist> bu in the end it only had to be decimated
  47. [02:13] <Hale> the stream doesn't even come with sar ..
  48. [02:14] <TheProfosist> sure it does just drop it in there
  49. [02:14] <TheProfosist> *the stream was encoded with sar
  50. [02:15] <TheProfosist> sar 40:33 to be exact
  51. [02:15] <Hale> well.. if it DID already have the values stored in it, mmg should recognize it.. which it doesn't =)
  52. [02:16] <TheProfosist> that caiuse i rawx264 i wont recognise anything
  53. [02:16] <TheProfosist> not even framerate
  54. [02:16] <TheProfosist> just set framrate to 23.976
  55. [02:17] <TheProfosist> by the way the same thing happened with my test encode that i did with a few min of the first ep
  56. [02:22] <TheProfosist> see how its slightly wider than it should be?
  57. [02:25] <torque> <~TheProfosist> 704*10)/(480*11) = 4/3 -> <~TheProfosist> (((480*4)/3)/720)=0.88888 or 8/9
  58. [02:25] <torque> what I'm wondering is how come you switched from using 704 to using 720
  59. [02:25] <TheProfosist> 720x480 is DVD source
  60. [02:26] <torque> yes
  61. [02:26] <TheProfosist> for full digital material
  62. [02:26] <torque> and that is a 3:2 ratio
  63. [02:27] <torque> if you multiply 4 by 2 and 3 by 3 you get 8:9
  64. [02:27] <torque> I don't understand what this has to do with anything
  65. [02:28] <TheProfosist> now if your talking older animation i believe the 704x480 is whats considered the visible pixels because on analogue sets you cant see all pix thats why there blank on right and left
  66. [02:28] <Hale> no i don't... timecode 10:28 (the only scene i could dig up that has circle) - measured 4.1cm width and 4.1 cm height ^^'
  67. [02:28] <torque> well.
  68. [02:28] <torque> kore wa kore wa
  69. [02:29] <Hale> that is with 20 / 11 set in mmg (which is what shoul've been recognized)
  70. [02:30] <torque> I don't even know what this is about
  71. [02:30] <torque> but 8:9 confuses me
  72. [02:31] <torque> so I'm going to go to bed.
  73. [02:31] <torque> Night, guys
  74. [02:31] <Hale> can't really believe that the source didn't have any edge-noise whatsoever that would've needed a crop
  75. [02:31] <Hale> night torque =)
  76. [02:31] <TheProfosist> night torque great to see u working on streetfighter
  77. [02:31] <TheProfosist> yea no edge noise at all
  78. [02:32] <TheProfosist> you told me to set 40:33 sar for widescreen
  79. [02:32] <Hale> that's what I told you
  80. [02:32] <TheProfosist> so whats this 20 11 now?>
  81. [02:32] <Hale> no.. wait.. I told you to "call x264 with the --sar set to 40:33"
  82. [02:33] <TheProfosist> thats what i doing fo widescreen anime
  83. [02:33] <Hale> mmg should then recognize this and set the DAR automatically to 20 / 11
  84. [02:33] -->| Reza`work ([email protected]) has joined #@Home
  85. [02:33] |<-- Rezagrats has left irc.rizon.net (*.net *.split)
  86. [02:33] |<-- [AinA] has left irc.rizon.net (*.net *.split)
  87. [02:33] <Hale> but this was probably lost because you exported to raw avc for whatever goddamn reason
  88. [02:33] <Hale> sar != dar
  89. [02:34] -->| [AinA] ([email protected]) has joined #@Home
  90. [02:34] =-= Mode #@Home +h [AinA] by ChanServ
  91. [02:34] <TheProfosist> ok
  92. [02:35] <TheProfosist> so that black line on top is supposed to be there then
  93. [02:35] <Hale> what black line?
  94. [02:35] <TheProfosist> well as it is now its not 16/9
  95. [02:35] <TheProfosist> its slightly wider
  96. [02:36] <TheProfosist> im thinking that because there was no edge noise
  97. [02:36] <Hale> ofc it is.. 16/9 is only the "flag" to unstrech.. this doesn't mean that the active area has to result in 16/9 <_<
  98. [02:36] <TheProfosist> would i be correct?
  99. [02:36] <TheProfosist> da i know
  100. [02:37] <TheProfosist> what i mean though is that 720x480 at 16/9 should fill my 16/9 display correct
  101. [02:37] <Hale> that's not correct either
  102. [02:37] <Hale> you're forgetting the overscan here
  103. [02:38] <TheProfosist> ok and where am i forgetting it?
  104. [02:38] <Hale> during playback on hardware? ^^'
  105. [02:38] <Hale> dvds were never supposed to be played on 1:1 pixel devices..
  106. [02:39] <TheProfosist> i know that
  107. [02:39] <TheProfosist> so what i was going to follow with was hardware as in analogue right
  108. [02:39] <TheProfosist> like crt TV
  109. [02:40] <Hale> more like the player outputting analogue cable, but yeah.. something like this
  110. [02:40] <junh1024> iev seen dotcrawl on picture edges
  111. [02:41] <Hale> long story short: even if you have a source like this, that seems to have no edge-noise at all (and I bet it will later on), it's safe to assume that you should follow itu
  112. [02:41] <TheProfosist> you should follow what?
  113. [02:41] <Hale> junh1024 good job - another hint for the analogue part =D
  114. [02:41] <Hale> http://ps-auxw.de/cgi-bin/ar-calc.pl <- this
  115. [02:42] <TheProfosist> o itu
  116. [02:42] <junh1024> meh, s'just that i have lotsa diffrent sources from 1998-2010
  117. [02:42] <Hale> but I can see that the ar would be totally off if you set the dar to 40/33 ^^'
  118. [02:43] <TheProfosist> ok so im going to post a screen of how it looks on my 16/9 monitor
  119. [02:43] <Hale> go ahead
  120. [02:44] <TheProfosist> im believeing what we did is correct now though did have the calculator before
  121. [02:45] <TheProfosist> whats the DAR for 4/3
  122. [02:45] <TheProfosist> http://eypic.com/capturrhr.bmp
  123. [02:46] <Hale> well.. those two vales I told you to use are pretty close to what this calc outputs.. about 1px off ususally.. anyway just forget about them and use this
  124. [02:46] <TheProfosist> so it shouls look exactly like that according to the calculator slightlywider
  125. [02:47] <Hale> keep the overscan in mind ;)
  126. [02:47] <junh1024> hell, i even see dotcrawl on recently-shot SD pillarboxed ads airing on HDTV for some reason
  127. [02:47] <TheProfosist> what do u mean by that Hale?
  128. [02:47] <Hale> dvd players would't show you the complete 480 lines, let alone the full width
  129. [02:48] <Hale> hence what would be shown would "fill" the screen completely
  130. [02:48] <TheProfosist> ok
  131. [02:48] <TheProfosist> and since i see no edge noise
  132. [02:48] <Hale> junh1024 - that's because it's more convenient for studios to feed their content through hardware =\
  133. [02:49] <TheProfosist> which i agree is amazing on a DVD
  134. [02:49] <TheProfosist> thats what the ouput should look like correct when displayed on a monitor?
  135. [02:49] <Hale> question is: why was the r1 disc used for the encode?
  136. [02:50] <TheProfosist> the R2J isnt availble
  137. [02:50] <TheProfosist> unless u can find it
  138. [02:50] <Hale> what's the fucking point then? >_<
  139. [02:54] <TheProfosist> of encoding the anime
  140. [02:54] <TheProfosist> ?
  141. [02:54] <TheProfosist> same as there is anyother anime
  142. [02:54] <TheProfosist> i mean id maybe put less priority on it
  143. [02:54] <TheProfosist> but thats no reason not to do it
  144. [02:55] <Hale> we're getting closer and closer to all those other fugly r1 rip groups ;_;
  145. [02:56] <TheProfosist> im sorry? its Kaiokanes first rip and something that he wanted to do and had the source for
  146. [02:57] <TheProfosist> just so u know there are a few a very few abount of R1s that are better then their R2J counterparts
  147. [02:57] <TheProfosist> ]not sayin this is one i woulnt know
  148. [02:57] <junh1024> wait, MSLN R1s have japanese text, but it's DA, is that OK?
  149. [02:58] <TheProfosist> not if the R2J is availble
  150. [02:58] <Hale> well excause me for loosing faith in this, if we're already at the point where ugly overlyed english credits in the op/ed are accepted =\
  151. [02:58] <Hale> junh1024 - more like pick the source that looks better
  152. [02:58] <TheProfosist> thats what i meant...
  153. [02:59] <junh1024> well, its what i have now, and my unlimited internet cap expires very soon =\
  154. [02:59] <Hale> but it doesn't sound as if you guys compared in this case ^^Ä
  155. [02:59] <TheProfosist> i can name a few where the R1 is desireable because its anamorphic widescreen while the R2J is not
  156. [03:00] <TheProfosist> thats true though usually the R2J is better
  157. [03:04] <TheProfosist> so basically what this all comes doen to is that most groups encode wrong
  158. [03:05] <TheProfosist> or not as properly as they could
  159. [03:05] <TheProfosist> because they ignore PAR and DAR
  160. [03:05] <Hale> if you're referring to the aspect ratio thing, then yes - most groups are doing it wrong
  161. [03:06] <TheProfosist> and just encode the 720x480 then set the aspect ratio to 16:9 or 4:3
  162. [03:06] <TheProfosist> yes i was refering to that
  163. [03:06] <Hale> then again, most groups are resizing back to $whatever seems fit too, which could be avoided in 90% of all cases
  164. [03:09] -->| Kaiokane ([email protected]) has joined #@Home
  165. [03:09] <TheProfosist> hey Kaiokane
  166. [03:09] <TheProfosist> were just discussing yhour encode
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