AAC3 R1A - Ame vs Soden Qaws Judgement

TooAmasian vs Theultimateambition - Note section

Ama - Response 1
Strength
* Shang and Batman are shown to be able to punch human-sized holes through concrete/marble
* Oppoent has explicitly stated that his team has durability comparable to a "normal" human

Speed
* The speed given by Ambition relies heavily on scaling. Amasian argues that on their own, they're not impressive
* Shang can catch bullets and Batman is capable of avoiding them

Durability(?)
* Shang's Adamantium staff is being argued as indestructible against Ambition's team.
* Batman's armor can withstand sword slashes that can cut through multiple feet of stone and resist bullets that can pierce through car blocks/72 layers of kevlar

Nagant's bullet
* Amasian argues that the Howitzer line is mistranslated and doesn't fit with the shown power of the bullets

Batman's gear
* Amasian argues that Batman possesses four gear pieces that "One Shot" and three capable of incapacitating or countering them

Fight Arguments
* For reference the fight begins on opposite sides of a city that covers multiple islands while also being on different islands with no knowledge of where the other team spawns at
* Amasian argues that Batman having X-Ray vision, a fast car, and stealth would allow them to find the other team first and get the drop of them

Anti-Sniper Arguments
* Batman has consistently avoided Deadshot, who Amasian is arguing is a comparable/better sniper than Nagant
* Shang can avoid sniper fire shots and can sense when a gun is trained on him
* Both Batman and Shang Chi have avoided close-range gunfire while turned in the other direction before
* Nagant doesn't possess any super senses that would allow her to avoid smoke screen camouflage
* Batman possesses magic stealth powers that the other team has no counter against

Ambition - Response 1
Nagant Sniping
* Ambition states that he has not changed his original view on his character's durability. Agreeing that they would be defeated easily if hit by Amasian's team
* Nagant's initial action will be to air walk until she has a vantage point over the city, after which it wouldn't be hard for her to just see the Batmobile coming and shooting it
* Ambition argues that Nagant's bullets are far faster than normal bullets. Using the example that a 5% Deku can block bullets after they've fired and dodge assault rifle rounds at close distances, but while in a stronger state (30%)
	and at a further distance (1 kilometer) and with precog couldn't properly handle her projectile speed
* Batman and Shang Chi are shown/argued as having subsonic movement speed. Which makes them inferior to Deku who had trouble properly reacting to her bullets from a similar distance away
* The final conclusion Ambition presents is that neither opponent can properly deal with her range and power advantages

Twice
* His clones are something neither Batman nor Shang would be familiar with and even if defeated that would give him information that can be used to assist in the fight itself
* His clones can allow Nagant to go unopposed and apply constant pressure to the other team

Conclusion
* Batman and Shang Chi basically have no means of avoiding Nagant, especially when being pressured by two clones that can be resummoned if defeated

Ama - Response 2

Anti-Nagant range post
* Amasian states that Batman's batarangs can be used to counter Nagant
* Nagant has no boomerang experience, meaning them coming back could take her off guard
* The Batmobile has ranged attacks like rockets and energy blasts that Amasian argues could attack Nagant
* Batman has experience fighting aerial opponents and Shang's agility allows him to rapidly cover both verticle and horizontal obstacles
* Batman's smoke and flash bangs could disrupt Nagant's vision
* Batman has experience fighting Marksmen of comparable to skill to Nagant and defeating them
* Both Shang Chi and Batman are bullet timers, making avoiding the bullets possible
* Both Batman and Shang Chi are able to predict their opponent's moves. So them predicting Nagant's fire, which was done in-universe, is a feasible option
* Nagant requires a visual to hit her opponents, which is not the same for Batmana and Shang Chi
* The Batmobile can fight as an independent AI if needed. Making the fight a 3 vs 4 rather than a 2 vs 4, which can also give Batman and Shang the ability to stealthily attack their enemies

Anti-Nagant general post
* Amasian argues that Nagant's bullets did not overpower the same force Deku used to launch himself through a building, but just his swinging around force
* Amasian argues that Deku didn't break the sound barrier in one of the previous linked scans, instead saying its a generic impact cone. Adding to it, the SFX is a "Wham" rather than a "Boom"
* Deku only becomes faster than a speeding bullet by stacking a bunch of powers and getting to a Faux 100% speed. Meaning his previous speeds are necessarily supersonic
* A character stated by Deku as being faster than Gran Torino required a power boost to reach transonic speeds, so that means that Gran Torino couldn't be supersonic when Deku first fought him
* Deku being overwhelmed by curved bullets is argued as making Deku an inferior bullet timing to Batman and Shang

Piercing Durability Arguments
* Ambition hasn't countered any of the arguments about Batman's armor being able to withstand her bullets (though ngl trying to scale him to being above Superman is a slippery slope tactic that can lead to him being OOT) or the Adamantium Staff being unbreakable
* The calc'ed speed of Nagant's bullets is lower than the stated speed of a bullet Batman has avoided.
* Nagant increasing the power of her bullets also lets her gun jam, which could cause a problem

The Anti-Twice post
* The hole created in the wall by Rappa is argued as just concrete rather than reinforced concrete
* Rappa doesn't punch as fast as a bullet but hits as hard as one
* Batman and Shang can survive a punch from Rappa
* Batman's foam is argued as countering Dabi's flames by stopping them from burning. They can also cover a large area
* Shang Chi can withstand being on fire and Batman's armor can handle reentry friction, which is argued as making them resistant to Dabi's fire
* Shang Chi can read someone's inner spirit, letting him know that they're clones
* Batman's gear and bio scanners could also let him know that they're clones of something
* Twice's clones are stated to be weaker than the original, with pain being able to cancel them out
* Twice wouldn't be able to clone Nagant without measuring her thoroughly first, which is questionable in such an encounter
* Amasian argues that his opponent's team has no counters to smoke screen or stealth


Ambition - Response 2
* Amasian hasn't provided any actual evidence of Deadshot being comparable to Nagant
* Nagant's aiming feats involve her being a better shot than someone with automatic 600 meter aim through skill and even when multiple blocks were covered in smoke, Deku had a hard time fighting Nagant
* As Ambition said, nothing provided by Amasian gave a range for the batarangs. Him countering gunfire within a couple dozen feet is different than a kilometer elevation difference
* Nagant should be able to react to and intercept anything Batman fires at her, since no long-range speed was given for his gear
* Just grabbing Nagant wasn't enough for Deku to beat her. She escaped right after and then hammered into him mid-air with rifle rounds
* Batman's aerial mobility showings are pretty bad
* While Shang Chi's showings are better, they're still far worse than a 5% Deku with less powers than the one that was struggling to fight Nagant
* While Deku did figure out her bullets, it involved dodging dozens of shots and tracking them in mid-air. Which is argued as more difficult than the body reading argued by Amasian
* 30% Deku can physically overpower a creature that can output multiple tons of force, but still couldn't completely overpower the bullets
* Deku outruns a sound wave at 30% and can produce a shockwave argued as supersonic at 20% (though the source linked does not mention that, just a wind blast)
* Deku is argued as making a vapor cone when leaving an island
* Ambition admits that Nagant cannot damage or destroy Shang Chi's staff, but also doesn't really debunk any of the points about Batman's armor being strong enough to tank her shots either
* The official translation of Twice's power is that the clones are more fragile but just as strong
* Dabis flames are argued as being 2,900F. Going by the source linked, Batman's rating is 2,600F and Shang is between 1,112F to 2,192F


Conclusions in my view

So with all the above in mind, I agree that ultimately Nagant would start up by jumping into the air and Twice with his clones, while Batman and Shang Chi ride around in the Batmobile.

With that in mind, based on the arguments, Nagant finds them first and fires. After which Batman and Shang-Chi will see the flying woman. At no point did Ambition contest that the Batmobile couldn't withstand a few hits from Nagant, so presumably they wouldn't be killed in the initial volley.

However, at this point, the main flaws in Ambition's argument come into place in my view. Those being:
* They never countered Amasian's durability arguments for Batman. Which to remind everyone, at one point argued that Batman's suit had greater piercing durability than Superman who could withstand Brown Dwarf bullets. This was never even addressed by Ambition
* They never countered the rather hilarious stealth advantage both have. Batman was argued as being able to avoid people with X-Ray vision and super hearing from finding him and Shang Chi being undetected around people with enhanced senses. Meaning that once they decide to hid Ambition provided zero evidence that his team could find them
* They never countered the initial point that Batman had multiple gear options that one shot the enemy team

The first is bad since that means that as argued the only weakness Batman has against Nagant is his chin that he's able to cover with his fist. The second is really bad, since nothing provided suggests either person on Ambition's team stands a remote chance of finding Batman or Shang Chi when they're hiding.

The last is just game-endingly bad since it means that Amasian's argument that electricity and sleep gas are instant wins was never once addressed by their opponent.

Overall the win condition is that Nagant can snipe them and that Twice's clones are able to kill them with Fire or distract them with punches to allow the other win conditions to happen.

To me the former doesn't work when Nagant isn't able to find them if they go stealth and of the latter, they're all vulnerable to an electric batarang, foam or sleeping gas.

While for Amasian his main win cons of just "Stealth + X-Ray + One Shot Gear" is perfectly feasable.

So in my view Amasian wins the debate.