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  1. 22
  2. Moon Mining and Drilling Platforms
  3. CCP Attendees:
  4. CCP Fozzie
  5. CCP Larrikin
  6. CCP Lebowski
  7. CCP Darwin
  8. CCP Pointy Bits
  9. CCP Myrkur
  10. CCP Vertex
  11. CCP Masterplan
  12. CCP Habakuk
  13. CCP Salvo
  14. CCP Nagual
  15. CCP Mimic
  16. CCP Logibro
  17. The majority of this session was dedicated to discussion of the next planned Upwell
  18. structures.
  19. Parts of this session were originally held back from the minutes until after the
  20. publication of a number of dev blogs.
  21. As they are now published, the minutes are now
  22. included
  23. .
  24. The related dev blogs can be found here
  25. , and here
  26. .
  27. CCP started by pointing out that they are looking for a new name for the new structures as
  28. they perform more functions than being drilling platforms.
  29. At present, CCP is planning only Medium and Large
  30. sized platforms, and would be pricing
  31. them like Engineering Complexes. They would have a tether and standard structure
  32. functions. It would be the only structure that could moon mine and react moon minerals,
  33. and would be bonused for refining. They are also
  34. looking at some additional grid based
  35. mining benefits, be it survey scanning or mining boosts. CCP is also considering using it as a
  36. replacement for IHub upgrades for sov mining upgrades, but that is not planned as part of
  37. the initial release. Noobman ask
  38. ed whether CCP would be dropping down existing refining
  39. capacities or giving platforms even more refining, to which CCP replied it would likely be a
  40. bit of both. CSM asked if this change would allow people to remove the existing rigs safely,
  41. to which CCP r
  42. eplied it was likely. Sullen asked whether the larger platform would be
  43. stronger, to which CCP replied it would likely just give more separate bonuses, similar to
  44. Engineering Complexes. The CSM asked whether there would be any bonuses or functions
  45. reserved
  46. for the large platform, to which CCP said it was an option but unlikely.
  47. CCP Nagual explained that there would be some big changes to the way moon mining
  48. works. Currently the system is top down, with one person running a passive system
  49. protected by a larg
  50. e group. The new gameplay would be active, and would involve groups
  51. working together to collect resources. The platform would pull a chunk of moon-
  52. ore up
  53. 23
  54. from the surface, which it would eventually shatter and create an asteroid belt that players
  55. would mine for moon goo. The cycle happens over days/weeks, and the timing is controlled
  56. by the structure owner. Noobman asked how far it would be from the platform, to which
  57. CCP replied it would be within weapons range, but not tether range. The asteroid belt itse
  58. lf
  59. is open to anyone that wishes to mine it. CCP explained that the belt would contain a
  60. relative number of minerals based on the length of the cycle (3 days has 3 days of moon
  61. goo; 3 week has 3 weeks of moon goo). There was then some discussion on the industrial
  62. backbone requirements. Aryth asked how would the owner earn income from people
  63. mining, to which CCP stated they are looking at several possibilities. Options including
  64. charging for actually splitting the belt, and tracking mining within the same gr
  65. id as the belt
  66. (and providing the ledger via API). CCP is open to more ideas for how to help corporations,
  67. alliances and structure owners derive income from users. Noobman asked if you could
  68. place more than one of these on moons, to which CCP replied that you can't fit the surface
  69. module unless the platform is close enough, and only one surface module can be online
  70. around a moon at a time. CCP also added that they are not planning to expand moon
  71. mining to more locations with this. Aryth asked whether the ma
  72. terials you get out of the
  73. moons would change, to which CCP replied they are not planning to change the
  74. distribution. Noobman pointed out that this type of gameplay is something that wormhole
  75. players would like, to which CCP responded that the gameplay is something they could
  76. introduce there, but they wouldn't want to introduce the same materials to wormholes.
  77. Nashh asked if it would be possible to shoot ships with the mining laser, to which CCP
  78. replied it likely wouldn't. Aryth asked what the longest cycle
  79. would be, to which CCP replied
  80. it hasn't been decided, but would likely be around a month. Aryth then asked how long it
  81. would take for the leftovers to disappear, to which CCP replied it would be short enough to
  82. make sure that you don't crash computers by
  83. filling the screen with belts. Nashh asked
  84. what would happen if no one activates the laser, to which CCP replied it would eventually
  85. go off on its own. CCP also pointed out that one of the ways they are considering cleaning
  86. up the belt would be to have NPC miners move in eventually.
  87. CCP continued that the yields per day would be roughly similar overall to current rates. The
  88. free belt also means that it would be susceptible to raiding miners, both players and
  89. potentially NPCs. Allied NPC miners could also a
  90. ppear in the belt. Nashh asked if they were
  91. going to have a hard cut between Starbase Moon Mining and Drilling Platforms, or whether
  92. there would be some cross over between the two systems.
  93. CCP then went over a breakdown of all the different types of player
  94. s that would be
  95. interacting with the structures. A point that CCP highlighted that they wanted feedback on
  96. was the ability to outsource to 3rd party groups.
  97. 24
  98. CCP then showed that they will be using the new industry window for reactions. The CSM
  99. asked if th
  100. is meant that reactions could now be taxed, to which CCP replied yes. There was
  101. then some discussion around how many reactions a single character could now run at a
  102. time.
  103. CCP then asked about neutral miners, and whether it would be something that would be
  104. welcome. CCP also asked if it would be useful to have a grid mining info screen for the
  105. structure owner, to which the CSM replied absolutely. Bobmon proposed the possibility of
  106. being able to hide some mining from the structure owner, to which CCP replied t
  107. hat they
  108. preferred to not weaken the advantage of the structure owner.
  109. There was some further discussion on the market impacts.
  110. Nashh asked if you would be able to warp back and forth from the belt, to which CCP
  111. replied that there would be parts of the bel
  112. t in warping range. The CSM also suggested the
  113. use of tractor beams to pull in cans. Bobmon proposed that medium platforms be able to
  114. have a shorter max cycle length, to give some benefits to the large.
  115. Jin'taan brought up the issue of R4 and R8s, and maki
  116. ng sure that they were valuable
  117. enough to actually mine given the level of investment needed for a Drilling Platform. CCP
  118. replied that they were definitely looking into options. Jin'taan also added that lower level
  119. moons should have fewer, larger asteroids
  120. while higher level moons should have more
  121. smaller rocks, making it easier to mine the lower level ones.
  122. Aryth asked whether they could keep existing reactions running alongside the new system,
  123. so that people could keep the supply moving and prevent market
  124. issues.
  125. Jin'taan pointed out that this change could have a very negative effect on the usage of T2
  126. ships, some of which were already suffering from underuse.
  127. Nashh asked about what would happen to siphon units, to which CCP replied they would
  128. not be used in the new system.
  129. There were then some questions around the raiding gameplay. Steve suggested adding
  130. regular ore to the moon belts as well.
  131. CCP Fozzie explained that they were also considering making it so that the asteroids are
  132. unidentified without scanning, so that players would need to search for the good ores.
  133. Moving onto general Structures discussion, Sullen brought up
  134. that he would like to see
  135. better warnings for fueling. Additionally, the CSM as a whole indicated they would like to
  136. see more people being able to add fuel.
  137. Bobmon asked if CCP was considering adding more covert mining ships along the line of the
  138. Prospect.
  139. 25
  140. Going back to the topic of Moon Mining, Nashh asked how long CCP expected it to take to
  141. mine the belt out. CCP replied that they would be making sure that it was still very valuable
  142. per hour spent.
  143. CCP then showed some concept art for the drilling platform. The platform would have a
  144. ring, and the laser would appear on the ring facing the moon when the related service
  145. module is fitted.
  146. The CSM asked whether CCP would also be changing the moons scanning mechanics, to
  147. which CCP replied that they were not planning to make any major changes, but might look
  148. at the current system and make some small QOL changes.
  149. The CSM also asked if it would be possible to make some changes to the taxes, and fixing
  150. some issues that currently surround them. CCP replied that they would like to do so, but
  151. need to work how to fit it around their other priority tasks.
  152. There was some further discussion on taxes from
  153. mining, to enable proper bottom up
  154. income.
  155. The rest of the session included a wide
  156. -ranging discussion on issues related to Upwell
  157. structures in general.
  158. The topic of logging 0% tax transactions was brought up again for auditing purposes.
  159. Sullen asked about blueprint locking, to which CCP replied it's something they want to do.
  160. CCP and the CSM went over some other currently missing features and bugs from
  161. Structures. These included Insurance (committed), Repair Services (committed), restoring
  162. shield and capacitor on undock, blueprint locking, and others.
  163. Noobman brought up the topic of lack of anchoring notification for any new structures in
  164. systems you hold sovereignty. CCP replied this was originally by design, but may be
  165. changed in the future.
  166. Sullen a
  167. nd Aryth brought up that some logs, such as Transaction logs don't have enough
  168. information in some cases, such as location.
  169. Bobmon brought up the topic of capital ship movement via tethered structures. CCP
  170. responded that they're not happy with the current system, but it was again a matter of
  171. priorities compared to other work they needed to do. CCP suggested that the CSM make a
  172. wiki page to rank issues related to structures.
  173. Aryth brought up the issues of Fighter and Titan aiming and how brackets interfere with it.
  174. CCP acknowledged that that they had an internal defect related to that issue, and again it
  175. was a matter of priority.
  176. Noobman brought up the issue of T2 structure rig prices. CCP replied that they were
  177. intended to be very expensive as they were mea
  178. nt to replace outpost upgrades. CCP
  179. 26
  180. suggested that if they were going to make changes, it would be around the gathering of
  181. salvage. There was further discussion on the current numbers, and issues with the price of
  182. rigs relative to structure hulls.
  183. Aryth as
  184. ked about Mercoxit drones, to which CCP replied that they have no plans to add
  185. them.
  186. Aryth again brought up the issue of missing logs for structures, to which CCP replied they're
  187. aware they need to be added.
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