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- 22
- Moon Mining and Drilling Platforms
- CCP Attendees:
- •
- CCP Fozzie
- •
- CCP Larrikin
- •
- CCP Lebowski
- •
- CCP Darwin
- •
- CCP Pointy Bits
- •
- CCP Myrkur
- •
- CCP Vertex
- •
- CCP Masterplan
- •
- CCP Habakuk
- •
- CCP Salvo
- •
- CCP Nagual
- •
- CCP Mimic
- •
- CCP Logibro
- The majority of this session was dedicated to discussion of the next planned Upwell
- structures.
- Parts of this session were originally held back from the minutes until after the
- publication of a number of dev blogs.
- As they are now published, the minutes are now
- included
- .
- The related dev blogs can be found here
- , and here
- .
- CCP started by pointing out that they are looking for a new name for the new structures as
- they perform more functions than being drilling platforms.
- At present, CCP is planning only Medium and Large
- sized platforms, and would be pricing
- them like Engineering Complexes. They would have a tether and standard structure
- functions. It would be the only structure that could moon mine and react moon minerals,
- and would be bonused for refining. They are also
- looking at some additional grid based
- mining benefits, be it survey scanning or mining boosts. CCP is also considering using it as a
- replacement for IHub upgrades for sov mining upgrades, but that is not planned as part of
- the initial release. Noobman ask
- ed whether CCP would be dropping down existing refining
- capacities or giving platforms even more refining, to which CCP replied it would likely be a
- bit of both. CSM asked if this change would allow people to remove the existing rigs safely,
- to which CCP r
- eplied it was likely. Sullen asked whether the larger platform would be
- stronger, to which CCP replied it would likely just give more separate bonuses, similar to
- Engineering Complexes. The CSM asked whether there would be any bonuses or functions
- reserved
- for the large platform, to which CCP said it was an option but unlikely.
- CCP Nagual explained that there would be some big changes to the way moon mining
- works. Currently the system is top down, with one person running a passive system
- protected by a larg
- e group. The new gameplay would be active, and would involve groups
- working together to collect resources. The platform would pull a chunk of moon-
- ore up
- 23
- from the surface, which it would eventually shatter and create an asteroid belt that players
- would mine for moon goo. The cycle happens over days/weeks, and the timing is controlled
- by the structure owner. Noobman asked how far it would be from the platform, to which
- CCP replied it would be within weapons range, but not tether range. The asteroid belt itse
- lf
- is open to anyone that wishes to mine it. CCP explained that the belt would contain a
- relative number of minerals based on the length of the cycle (3 days has 3 days of moon
- goo; 3 week has 3 weeks of moon goo). There was then some discussion on the industrial
- backbone requirements. Aryth asked how would the owner earn income from people
- mining, to which CCP stated they are looking at several possibilities. Options including
- charging for actually splitting the belt, and tracking mining within the same gr
- id as the belt
- (and providing the ledger via API). CCP is open to more ideas for how to help corporations,
- alliances and structure owners derive income from users. Noobman asked if you could
- place more than one of these on moons, to which CCP replied that you can't fit the surface
- module unless the platform is close enough, and only one surface module can be online
- around a moon at a time. CCP also added that they are not planning to expand moon
- mining to more locations with this. Aryth asked whether the ma
- terials you get out of the
- moons would change, to which CCP replied they are not planning to change the
- distribution. Noobman pointed out that this type of gameplay is something that wormhole
- players would like, to which CCP responded that the gameplay is something they could
- introduce there, but they wouldn't want to introduce the same materials to wormholes.
- Nashh asked if it would be possible to shoot ships with the mining laser, to which CCP
- replied it likely wouldn't. Aryth asked what the longest cycle
- would be, to which CCP replied
- it hasn't been decided, but would likely be around a month. Aryth then asked how long it
- would take for the leftovers to disappear, to which CCP replied it would be short enough to
- make sure that you don't crash computers by
- filling the screen with belts. Nashh asked
- what would happen if no one activates the laser, to which CCP replied it would eventually
- go off on its own. CCP also pointed out that one of the ways they are considering cleaning
- up the belt would be to have NPC miners move in eventually.
- CCP continued that the yields per day would be roughly similar overall to current rates. The
- free belt also means that it would be susceptible to raiding miners, both players and
- potentially NPCs. Allied NPC miners could also a
- ppear in the belt. Nashh asked if they were
- going to have a hard cut between Starbase Moon Mining and Drilling Platforms, or whether
- there would be some cross over between the two systems.
- CCP then went over a breakdown of all the different types of player
- s that would be
- interacting with the structures. A point that CCP highlighted that they wanted feedback on
- was the ability to outsource to 3rd party groups.
- 24
- CCP then showed that they will be using the new industry window for reactions. The CSM
- asked if th
- is meant that reactions could now be taxed, to which CCP replied yes. There was
- then some discussion around how many reactions a single character could now run at a
- time.
- CCP then asked about neutral miners, and whether it would be something that would be
- welcome. CCP also asked if it would be useful to have a grid mining info screen for the
- structure owner, to which the CSM replied absolutely. Bobmon proposed the possibility of
- being able to hide some mining from the structure owner, to which CCP replied t
- hat they
- preferred to not weaken the advantage of the structure owner.
- There was some further discussion on the market impacts.
- Nashh asked if you would be able to warp back and forth from the belt, to which CCP
- replied that there would be parts of the bel
- t in warping range. The CSM also suggested the
- use of tractor beams to pull in cans. Bobmon proposed that medium platforms be able to
- have a shorter max cycle length, to give some benefits to the large.
- Jin'taan brought up the issue of R4 and R8s, and maki
- ng sure that they were valuable
- enough to actually mine given the level of investment needed for a Drilling Platform. CCP
- replied that they were definitely looking into options. Jin'taan also added that lower level
- moons should have fewer, larger asteroids
- while higher level moons should have more
- smaller rocks, making it easier to mine the lower level ones.
- Aryth asked whether they could keep existing reactions running alongside the new system,
- so that people could keep the supply moving and prevent market
- issues.
- Jin'taan pointed out that this change could have a very negative effect on the usage of T2
- ships, some of which were already suffering from underuse.
- Nashh asked about what would happen to siphon units, to which CCP replied they would
- not be used in the new system.
- There were then some questions around the raiding gameplay. Steve suggested adding
- regular ore to the moon belts as well.
- CCP Fozzie explained that they were also considering making it so that the asteroids are
- unidentified without scanning, so that players would need to search for the good ores.
- Moving onto general Structures discussion, Sullen brought up
- that he would like to see
- better warnings for fueling. Additionally, the CSM as a whole indicated they would like to
- see more people being able to add fuel.
- Bobmon asked if CCP was considering adding more covert mining ships along the line of the
- Prospect.
- 25
- Going back to the topic of Moon Mining, Nashh asked how long CCP expected it to take to
- mine the belt out. CCP replied that they would be making sure that it was still very valuable
- per hour spent.
- CCP then showed some concept art for the drilling platform. The platform would have a
- ring, and the laser would appear on the ring facing the moon when the related service
- module is fitted.
- The CSM asked whether CCP would also be changing the moons scanning mechanics, to
- which CCP replied that they were not planning to make any major changes, but might look
- at the current system and make some small QOL changes.
- The CSM also asked if it would be possible to make some changes to the taxes, and fixing
- some issues that currently surround them. CCP replied that they would like to do so, but
- need to work how to fit it around their other priority tasks.
- There was some further discussion on taxes from
- mining, to enable proper bottom up
- income.
- The rest of the session included a wide
- -ranging discussion on issues related to Upwell
- structures in general.
- The topic of logging 0% tax transactions was brought up again for auditing purposes.
- Sullen asked about blueprint locking, to which CCP replied it's something they want to do.
- CCP and the CSM went over some other currently missing features and bugs from
- Structures. These included Insurance (committed), Repair Services (committed), restoring
- shield and capacitor on undock, blueprint locking, and others.
- Noobman brought up the topic of lack of anchoring notification for any new structures in
- systems you hold sovereignty. CCP replied this was originally by design, but may be
- changed in the future.
- Sullen a
- nd Aryth brought up that some logs, such as Transaction logs don't have enough
- information in some cases, such as location.
- Bobmon brought up the topic of capital ship movement via tethered structures. CCP
- responded that they're not happy with the current system, but it was again a matter of
- priorities compared to other work they needed to do. CCP suggested that the CSM make a
- wiki page to rank issues related to structures.
- Aryth brought up the issues of Fighter and Titan aiming and how brackets interfere with it.
- CCP acknowledged that that they had an internal defect related to that issue, and again it
- was a matter of priority.
- Noobman brought up the issue of T2 structure rig prices. CCP replied that they were
- intended to be very expensive as they were mea
- nt to replace outpost upgrades. CCP
- 26
- suggested that if they were going to make changes, it would be around the gathering of
- salvage. There was further discussion on the current numbers, and issues with the price of
- rigs relative to structure hulls.
- Aryth as
- ked about Mercoxit drones, to which CCP replied that they have no plans to add
- them.
- Aryth again brought up the issue of missing logs for structures, to which CCP replied they're
- aware they need to be added.
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