Nerf vs Verlux - Tad Judgement

##Verlux vs Nerf:

#Ver R1:

* Fight isn't about stats, is about tactics.
* Team Ver uses weapons scavenged from the map to trap tunnels. Team Nerf has no feats for detecting and is unlikely to be cautious of traps. Map has lots of scrap to serve as cover for booby traps.
* Team Nerf have no piercing res. Vulnerable to guns, knives, and grenade shrapnel.
* Spawn A is optimal for trapping and establishing a funnel kill zone.
* Jack upgrades Satou's guns with his glove.
* Jack can carry Satou's severed hand to control where he respawns. Satou's shooting isn't hindered by this.
* Jack hangs back w/ the hand, Satou scouts ahead, Satou's ghost ahead of him.
* Satou's ghost can probably wound one of Nerf's picks with claws before going down.
* Satou can inflict massive damage by filling a tunnel with lead using guns. Enemy lacks reaction feats to deal with gunfire.
* Scaling up from divine pebble crater, Jack-enhanced bullets would deal massive damage.
* Most of Korra's bending options are limited by the map. Closed air supply - has to be careful with fire and wind. WWWinium tunnel walls can't be reshaped. Water is in short supply.
* Satou is a bitch to deal with and badly hurts Team Nerf with piercing if he hits once.
* Jack is agile and has good endurance. Will waste foes' time if they chase him.

#Nerf R1:
* Jack's speed is fake. Fails to dodge throwing knives, Herc scaling is bad because grapple gun no speed.
* Jack can't use wires to enhance his mobility because the tunnels are too small. Needs space to walk on them. Even then, Team nerf could just shoot up at him.
* Team Nerf is arrow timing, just dodge his slow knives.
* Jack has no piercing res, no reactions, dies to Kamo's tracking arrows.
* Would die even harder to mach blood jet.
* Also oneshot by all other offensive options.
* Jack only uses wire traps once and it's ineffective. Herc sees wires.
* Jack's piercing is bad and inconsistent. Might not even get through Team Nerf's mid piercing res.
* Even if they can pierce, they're easily reactable. Could dodge, shield, deflect, etc.
* Grenades aren't Jack's style. Slow fuse. Team would also notice and react to them.
* Jack's divinity empowerment doesn't last, needs to be used right as weapons are thrown. Divinity piercing is inconsistent, knives bounce off cobblestones.
* Satou's stats are all human level. Slow.
* Won't abuse Black Ghost, finds it boring.
* Ghost vanishes after a few minutes. Not enough time to scout huge map at human walking speed.
* Black Ghost is visible when used with killing intent.
* Ghost sucks. Fragile & weak.
* Team Nerf can see ghosts anyway, so can't even be used to nonviolently scout.
* Bear could also sniff out ghost, kill it dead.
* Incap is entirely IC for Korra and Satouu couldn't break out. Kamo has net. Bear can pin.
* Could also deal nonlethal incapacitating damage.
* Satou gets blitzed. Doesn't matter how fast bullets move if he's too slow to track Team Nerf.
* He probably doesn't get the chance to use his bomb vest either.
* Team Nerf can hit him from beyond LOS with homing arrows.
* Specific examples of Korra using bending skillfully to KO or incap, blitzing human reactions.
* Gunshots aren't even guaranteed to be fatal if they land and Team Nerf have healing options.
* Korra can still bend. There is water on the map in the form of surface snow, moisture. WWWinium doesn't prohibit making earth constructs. Oxygen deprivation isn't a problem bc airbending.

#Ver R2:
* Tourney motivation, Jack & Satou fight to win.
* Traps are entirely in character.
* Satou only refused to use ghost in one scenario.
* Jack only uses tripwires once argument is hypocritical (?)
* Jack and Satou don't fight fair.
* Jack & Satou's violence lust is accounted for in outlined plan. They're actively seeking out enemy on their terms.
* Satou loves bombs. They're practically being handed to him. Why wouldn't he use them?
* Divinity clearly enhances damage output and cuts good. Knives bounce because skill.
* Jack makes a dull clock pierce Herc and a building wall.
* Jack makes soft fabric cut a whole building.
* Herc not being fully pierced by knives is explained by Herc being tough---takes heavier blade to bisect.
* Divinity clearly lasts a long time. Touches building earlier in fight then drops it on Herc w/ divinity.
* Divinity would affect the whole gun bc it affects whole building.
* Grenade fuses can be shortened. Traps combo into each other so even if one set is dodged, the other get you. Korra can only shield from one direction.
* Herc notices the wires bc Jack wanted him two. Failed to see them being set up, as did entire massive audience.
* Jack's traps throw knives fast enough they bend on impact. Not just gravity.
* Ignoring everything else, knives fold on herc's skin, divine knives pierce him. Divine knives can obs pierce Team Nerf.
* Jack is a coward who uses traps and runs away.
* Satou's ghost scouts and does its job.
* Jack's emotion vision makes enemy team bright and visible as secondary detection.
* IBM ghosts aren't supernatural, they're weird particles. Seeing magic ghosts doesn't mean you can see them.
* Even if Nerf's team can react to knives, Jack throws too many at once to avoid.
* No proof Korra can extract moisture from the air. Weather outside tunnels is wet, not inside.
* Korra stip means she'll attack Satou lethally and trigger regen. "Ieft to live."
* 33% chance to kill outright with gunshot wound is good in context of automatic weapons. Satou goes for headshots anyway.
* Kamo stemming bleeding doesn't help when bullets tear through his body destroying organs. Demands clarification on how good it is.
* No evidence Korra could stay up with a bullet wound long enough to heal.
* Tunnels have gentle curves, not sharp corners. Homing arrows can't easily bypass a shooter's LOS. Kamo lacks senses to target things he can't see anyway.
* Korra/Kamo have no reason to anticipate Satou's regen or suicide bombing tricks. Would get caught off guard by them.

#Nerf R2:
* Satou and Jack are only meme tactical in favourable circumstances they're knowledgeable about.
* They're also not hyperrational---Satou refuses to learn an opponent's strategy in advance to anticipate it because it'd be "spoilers."
* More fights where Satou doesn't use the ghost.
* Satou doesn't always use bombs/traps to cover his flank as argued.
* Jack always kills up close so he can watch people die.
* Korra still uses nonlethal incap options in situations similar to stip.
* Korra's blasts KO people anyway.
* Knives are inconsistent part 2.
* Herc doesn't have good piercing res, he's magically protected from mortal weapons.
* Knives bending doesn't mean anything.
* Wires are visible from stands, announcer sees them.
* Grenades aren't the kind Satou is used to.
* Korra shield is a full bubble.
* Naga tracking, movement speed, no time to set traps.
* Satou's aim is worse than advertised.
* Korra outranged anyway.
* Available shotguns are much slower than the DLC gun Ver claims.
* Team Nerf could react to the gun from far enough distance.
* Normal people can stay up with bullet wounds.
* There are medkits on the map Team Nerf can use to treat bullet wounds.
* Scan showing Kamo arrows track around corners.
* Kamo's job is to fight curses, who are regenerators. Familiar with fighting regen. Satou can only surprise them once.

#Results:

"Refer back to the statpost" my ass link the damn feats you two.

Things I bought:
* Jack & Satou use the grenades. Satou can probably tweak the fuses, they aren't spectacularly different from what he's used before.
* Jack sets traps. "He only uses tripwires once" lmfao he only gets one fight in the series and he uses piano wire knife bullshit for like half of it in the linked scans. The scans claiming he always kills up close are clearly unplanned murders he committed as a child.
* Divinity works as Verlux described. It's clearly at least somewhat permanent and I buy he could do it to bullets.
* Satou sets traps. Literally one of the scans Nerf used to claim he wouldn't showed him immediately luring people into the peephole C4 trap.
* Satou's regen/suicide tactics surprise Team Nerf. They have no reason to think he's immortal. He looks like someone's grandpa, not a Cursed Spirit.
* Korra oneshots Satou and takes Jack down quickly.
* Korra can bend effectively and has at least some amount of water.
* Korra's bear can track the enemy team.
* Kamo can fire around corners blind.
* Kamo has at least some degree of survivability to bullets.
* Team Nerf are fast enough to blitz Team Ver in a melee. Can react to traps.
* Team Nerf can see the ghost if it does anything but passively scout.

Things I didn't buy:
* OFC Jack's piercing is good. I don't care if the knives bounce, even ignoring the multiple building level piercing feats for divine weapons, the knives pierce Herc when they're supposed to and the pebble feat clearly demonstrated that this was a factor of massively amping their damage. The "lightly carves brick" feat is better than presented piercing dura, "punching icicles" is fake as hell.
Jack's colour emotion thing doesn't work as tracking in the dark.
* Satou's guns obliterate Team Nerf like wet paper with divinity and still down them without it. I don't give a shit about gunshot statistics, a meatshot from a shotgun or assault rifle is going to as good as kill either of them. The stab wound feat means Kamo could maybe keep going for a while but no endurance was shown for Korra to suggest she could keep fighting through a debilitating injury like that. "Real life humans do" doesn't work unless you provide evidence humans can take a bullet to the gut and proceed to engage in strenuous combat. The medkit argument might have some merit if it was expanded on but it just seems thrown in there.
* Satou might use the ghost. I saw about as many scans of him using it as I did of him refusing to, so I buy he uses it at some point in the fight, but Verlux didn't really interrogate this argument as much as he should've or show counter evidence Satou would immediately use it as described vs dangerous opponents. That being said I at least somewhat buy "He didn't use it because he knew he was winning" as an explanation.
* Satou finds a shotgun easily, just not the autoshotgun Verlux claimed. I'm not averse to DLC weapons appearing on the map but Verlux was sloppy and didn't double check weapon spawn locations.
* Team Ver has time to trap the tunnels. Enough scans were shown for them setting up traps in short periods of time that I don't care about the three minute travel time argument, which Ver never got a chance to dispute.
* Korra's mindset is unclear. Verlux is right that the wording of the stip ("if left alive") doesn't gel with Nerf's claimed fight behaviour of continuing to nonlethally immobilise. It feels like Nerf is trying to have his cake and eat it too with how he wants Korra to fight.

Verlux wins.

This is a tough decision because so many things went unanswered or poorly defined and neither debater really brought their best to the table.

Verlux immediately articulated how his team would create favourable conditions of engagement with their traps and synergy, and while some of his points were proven shaky by Nerf over the course of the debate, I buy his team having the upper hand and controlling the fight in a way that makes their victory more likely.

Individually, Nerf did a fine job countering specific kill vectors; I buy that his team could dodge or deflect the traps. I buy that his team could down the Black Ghost. I buy that his team could rushdown Satou while aimdodging. I buy they could catch Jack and manhandle him. But as Ver laid out, they need to be doing all these things at once in cramped conditions that are optimal for Ver's trapping bottleneck strategy.

In particular, the provided answers to Satou's guns and Jack's knife spam (Korra's flight and agility, Kamo firing around corners) doesn't work in the space Verlux argued uncontested that his team would force the engagement. The tunnel curves gently, Satou sees them coming far away enough to shoot (possibly further with his ghost), Nerf himself recognised the map was too tight for vertical mobility, and while sufficient reactions were provided for Nerf's picks, the precision to weave through incoming clouds of projectiles like buckshot/shrapnel was not.