The Fascism of Donald Trump

+Doomsday
If you support Donald Trump, then you hate the military.
Ignoring lauchaway!*@*
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+Doomsday
I support the Washington Post.
I am glad there are organizations like WP that care about law and order.
Everything the GOP claims to stand for is a lie.
You can't be for law and order if you're an authoritarian.
Because history shows that the most serious threats to law and order comes from corrupt leaders.
Which the rule of law can hold accountable, but which authoritarianism must necessarily defend.
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+Shirakawasuna
yeah it's pretty awful
policies that only hurt human welfare justified by half-cocked ideas and partisanship
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hello
+Doomsday
It's sort of worse than that.
+Forest`
hello lauchaway
+Doomsday
Because we currently allow both universal suffrage and non-mandatory education standards, people are domesticating one another in order to collect their votes.
So, the GOP is reasonably rationally pursuing its goals, which are contrary to the goals of GOP voters.
+Doomsday
Which is why we can no longer support universal suffrage and our currently view of education.
Even so @ "reasonably rationally pursuing its goals, the GOP's goals are still far inferior to the generic goals of the West
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+commie
I don't think that really makes sense, heh. Trump isn't trying to institute fascism. He's an echo of those tendencies but I don't think he's waking up and going, "Can I get fascism in?"
It's not that easy :P
Fascists just don't come in and take over. They have to have the backing of present power.
+Doomsday
commie: You seem uniformed on this topic.
+commie
Doomsday: Wow well, you can take that opinion and throw it in the trash
+Doomsday
commie: Donald Trump's views are absolutely a fascist.
+commie
Being "not nice" and being "a fascist" are different things.
+Doomsday
commie: We can be more precise with a citation, but fascism is the wedding of corporations with the state combined with extreme nationalism.
Which of those elements do you think are missing with Trump?
Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism,[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce
Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[9] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[9] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[10][11][12][13] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[14]
This very accurately describes Trumpism.
commie: Donald Trump is highly support by some key billionaires who wish to own our government.
The two primary billionaire supports of his are Robert Mercer and Rupert Murdoch.
Also, he is a puppet of fascist Vladimir Putin.
+commie
I won't deny there's a fascist *movement* which is how they form, but those groups are NOT getting the backing of corporate interests yet. The corporate players still think they can play the normal game + there's been a distinct lack of any attempt by the left to gain power.
In Italy and Germany the rise of fascism was preceded by worker's revolutions, strikes, takeovers, etc.
IN Venezuela we see the US backing fascists against Maduro.
+Doomsday
commie: Donald Trump has instituted an EO that requires the blocking of two regulations for every new regulation.
+commie
A major goal of fascism is to smash workers organizations to prevent them from gaining any power.
+Doomsday
He has undone many environmental protections that are beneficial for the short-term interests of some corporations.
He is attempting to pass tax reform which will be an enormous transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the wealthy.
Yes, to an extent, these are all extensions of the normal oligarchic policies of the USA, but that is merely to say the USA was already reasonably far along this path.
So, all of his policies are for the benefits of the wealthy and corporations, while having nothing to do with voters.
How, then, does he plan to keep voters happy?
+commie
Acting on behalf of corporations is not in of itself fascism. By that metric, the US was founded as fascist.
+Doomsday
But a constant stream of propaganda from religious and Russia sources that tell lies about his policies.
The generation and maintenance of enemies, both foreign and domestic, that attempt to undermine the Greatness of America
How will he manage resistance to these lies?
An abusive and highly empowered law enforcement that is given military weapons to crush opponents
Massive and intrusive digital surveillance that breaks apart resistance movements before they can spread
+commie
That's been going on for decades.
+Doomsday
Recall, too, he wanted an enormous military parade in DC on his inauguration
How does the above not read like a textbook example of fascism
Agreed, much of the above has been going on for decades -- because the USA has been heading down this path since the 1950s
Which is why Eisenhower's farewell address spoke of these dangers
commie: There are attempts to smash workers organizations to prevent them from gaining any power
Unions face possible extinctions under the Trump administration
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+Doomsday
Remember, the reason much of the above is likely to not take place is only because of Trump and GOP incompetency
Not because of lack of trying
Yes, unions would be entirely remove in the next couple of years if the Trump and GOP were competent
+commie
There's a natural tendency of capitalists to do this anyway, yeah. But fascism, in of itself, would restrict plenty of capitalist freedom. It would restrict their ability to be international, for example. They'd only accept these restrictions unless they felt they were under existential threat.
+Doomsday
Yes, free press would be entirely removed in the next couple of years of Trump and the GOP were competent
+commie
Does the bourgeoisie believe they are under existential threat right now?
Capitalism promotes fascism.
through crisis
+Doomsday
The USA is currently under a significant propaganda effort, so about 1/3 of Americans are lost in a fake reality
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+Doomsday
The other 2/3 are highly concerned about the country's well-being, yes
I don't know what percentage worry about an existential threat
Yes, the USA is currently facing an existential threat
Realistically, though, I don't think the USA is going to recover unless Mueller indicts multiple senior GOP members
+Doomsday
commie: Our government is transitioning from worker for corporate interests to just being an extension of the corporation
+commie
Corruption is not fascism. But corruption will lead to crisis.
+Doomsday
Look at the the nomination of Marino
+commie
Doomsday: What fantasy is this? The government was never for "worker interests."
+Doomsday
This is a man who help the government murder tens of thousands of Americans through the opioid crisis
And the only reason he is gone is because of reporting that Trump labels fake news
Sorry, working for corporate interests*
You really do not appreciate how bad Trump is
Which surprises me
We're talking the murder of tens of thousands of Americans, at least, per year
Massive poverty across the nation
Pollution everywhere
+Doomsday
Have you seen pictures of the USA before Nixon created the EPA?
+commie
I wonder what "voter corruption" even is
+Doomsday
Literal rivers on fire in some famous cases
+commie
Lake Ponchatrain was on fire recently
+Doomsday
The EPA has a gallery of these images
+commie
Apparently the lake that overflowed levees into New Orleans is a prime spot for oil drilling... what could go wrong?
+Doomsday
I didin't hear that @ Lake Ponchatrain
commie: 18th century democracy is actually dead
This is not discussed in mainstream culture
Mass media, social media, and the internet broke it
+commie
I wonder if it ever really existed outside idealized form.
+Doomsday
Perhaps not
commie: I am very interested in biology and the mind
I have a 21st century view of the mind and choice, rather than an 18th century one
If you vote, and I change your vote, then I have stolen 1 vote, right
And if I do that to 100,000 people, I have stolen 100,00 votes
So, we consider this breaking the rules of democracy
Now, let's say that I merely compile immense amounts of data on you and how your mind works
I then microtarget propaganda to you that my model says will move your views, in part
I can't change your vote by modifying your mind with these signals, but I can change it with 30% chance
+commie
So this has been a thing already? At least, voter data was compiled down to local communities by campaigns and parties.
+Doomsday
So, now I apply this to 1 million people
And now I have change, expected value, 300,000 votes
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+Doomsday
This would be 3x times worse than the previous example
And our current culture says, Hey, that's fair!
This is one of the ways 18th century views of choice are broken
commie: Yes, Facebook was used as a propaganda platform to influence voters
Russia was able to modify, expected value, probably at least hundreds of thousands of votes in key areas
+commie
I'm skeptical of that.
+Doomsday
Recall, the GOP left its entire voter database online for 12 months
What?
What is to be skeptical of
It's in the public record
commie: Do you see the stories about reddit, facebook, and twitter
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+commie
I'm skeptical of the scope being presented and the actual impact.
I've seen the stories, yes.
+Doomsday
Where do you think that endgame goes
+commie
I'm skeptical of the nature of the impact.
+Doomsday
On what basis are you skeptical
+commie
I'm also skeptical of the efficacy of these methods.
+Doomsday
That it wasn't widespread? That humans can resist and choose anyways?