Session Start: Sun Sep 25 01:03:09 2016
Session Ident: #psc_annex
[01:03.09] * You have joined #psc_annex
[01:03.09] Topic: The practice and teaching channel for the Psionic Social Club.
[01:03.09] Channel Topic Set by: Rainsong on 4:32 PM 8/20/2016
[01:03.14] Channel modes for #psc_annex are :+nt
[01:03.14] Channel Created on: 6:29 AM 5/22/2015
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[01:37.45] <ShadowRain> *eyes backlog* what I'd like to know is why asra keeps acting like he knows me when at most we hung out in the same channel like 6-7 years ago? as for saying you think I have "abilities of note", thanks but pretty sure youve seen no more from me than you have from anyone else in here. you dont even know what I practice :p
[01:38.30] <Rayn> Lol
[01:38.39] <Asrah> ShadowRain, i know youre not full of shit about your abilities. Thats all i said
[01:38.57] <Asrah> I dont need to know what you practice. You dont have the same erratic presence
[01:39.45] <ShadowRain> as opposed to you? :p
[01:39.50] <Asrah> I dont
[01:40.00] <Rayn> I was a little tipsy last night
[01:40.03] <Asrah> I dont have any presence, if you feel anything from me, chances are youre imagining things
[01:40.14] <ShadowRain> rofl
[01:40.29] <Rayn> I'm a light weight
[01:40.36] <ShadowRain> even entities have a presence, if thats what you think you are
[01:40.37] <Asrah> Doesnt mean you cant sense me, nothings going to fly out at you though.
[01:40.42] <ShadowRain> rayn: same
[01:41.00] <Asrah> I dont have any "presence" the slang sense
[01:41.52] <Asrah> I dont go waltzing about with large clouds of emotion around me, and i dont put emphasis on having a large "aura" to correlate to some level of power
[01:42.04] <ShadowRain> *snickers*
[01:42.33] <Asrah> Like i said, if you think otherwise, youre likely imagining things. Youd need to intentionally seek me out to find anything
[01:44.22] <Asrah> Im going to point out that right now, youre not making a good case for yourself. Not every entity has a far reaching presence. Some of us prefer to reign that in
[01:47.19] * Asrah finds it hilarious that ShadowRain is snickering at her own inability to properly interpret basic statements
[01:47.25] <ShadowRain> doesn't matter if it's far reaching or not, it's still there, and you're not making a huge effort to hide, so *Shrugs*
[01:47.42] <Asrah> youre correct, not making a huge effort to "hide" but there are other efforts
[01:47.48] <Rayn> I had the gin fiz ShadowRain
[01:47.50] <Asrah> Ones i take it you havent caught on to
[01:48.00] <ShadowRain> Rayn: I'm not a huge fan of gin tbh
[01:48.32] <Rayn> It knocked me on my ass
[01:48.55] <Rayn> I had a shot called the apple pie too
[01:49.18] <Rayn> I was tipsy but not drunk
[01:49.33] <ShadowRain> but then, I don't drink a lot to start with, I just don't usually enjoy it :/ though it tastes good occasionally
[01:49.37] <ShadowRain> sounds fun
[01:49.41] <Rayn> Same here
[01:49.46] <ShadowRain> Asrah: believe what you like :P
[01:49.57] <ShadowRain> granted you will anyway
[01:50.06] <Asrah> Theres nothing to "believe" here. I elaborated, and you snickered
[01:50.07] <Rayn> It was though it was nice hanging out with everyone
[01:50.27] <ShadowRain> the snicker was mostly at something I decided to keep to myself
[01:50.31] <Asrah> So please, snicker at your own decision to interpret based on any singular definition of "presence."
[01:50.36] <Asrah> Of course it is, oh superior one
[01:50.42] <ShadowRain> *nods* hanging out with people is nice rayn
[01:50.56] <ShadowRain> Asrah: no it was more because I decided it'd be overly sarcastic/unkind :P
[01:51.10] <Rayn> I looooove battle and brew
[01:51.43] <Asrah> Again, of course. Anything at all justifies snickering without context
[01:52.14] <ShadowRain> the context was your statement and behavior
[01:52.42] <Asrah> And i clarified what i meant because i realized i wasnt clear the first time
[01:54.56] <Rayn> My boyfriend is acting today so I get to watch them film
[01:55.02] <ShadowRain> nifty
[01:55.02] <Asrah> I could take my presence literally to nonexistent, but i wont do that. Makes for odd questions about why someones talking but showing no signs of being real :P
[01:55.06] <Rayn> Yea
[01:55.31] <ShadowRain> I'm pretty sure you like to be the center of attention too much to manage that...
[01:56.06] <Asrah> Im pretty sure id rather coexist normally here but thats too much for an OEC
[01:56.36] <Rayn> Asrah where else are you normally?
[01:56.49] <Asrah> Which is neeeever an issue in real life. Which is amusing, cause i regularly deal with people who have suffered one drug addiction or another. This town is known for its addicted homeless
[01:57.54] <Asrah> They dont respond to debates with "youre ignorant" or "thats naive" they make their points. If in the process of making points, someone is shown to be wrong, naive, etc, its left unsaid. It adds nothing to the debate
[02:00.12] <Rayn> ShadowRain I'm not a big drinker either
[02:00.21] <Rayn> It has to be sweet
[02:00.28] <ShadowRain> *nods* I'm not against it I just don't enjoy it
[02:00.38] <Rayn> I have to not be able to taste the alcohol
[02:00.45] <ShadowRain> pretty much :P
[02:01.48] <Asrah> Rayn, when not at home im normally out ... that how it works
[02:03.32] <Rayn> Asrah online communities I meant
[02:04.09] <Asrah> Then, nowhere. Theres about none left that im aware of, and i havent been looking to rectify that ignorance
[02:05.44] <Rayn> Ok
[02:05.56] <ShadowRain> There's a skype community--a bunch of the people from back when I started, some new people, fair amount of practice sessions and plenty of the "back it up or don't claim it" kind of attitude
[02:06.02] <Rayn> I'm on science forums a lot
[02:06.22] <Rayn> I love stack overflow
[02:06.26] <ShadowRain> you should ask Maeror/Raggie...something about it when he's online, it was pretty cool
[02:06.47] <Asrah> Islea?
[02:06.51] <ShadowRain> yeah
[02:07.16] <Asrah> Yeah i was removed from there cause i butted heads with people when i was in a bad mood from the issue with T :P
[02:07.25] <ShadowRain> ah, bummer
[02:07.26] <Asrah> I imagine i could rejoin if i promised not to be in a bad mood
[02:07.32] * Raggiedmon (~IceChat9@OWIRCN-f18327ae.abhsia.telus.net) has joined channel #psc_annex
[02:07.38] <ShadowRain> speaking of...
[02:07.42] <ShadowRain> :P
[02:07.47] <Raggiedmon> lol hmmm?
[02:07.58] <ShadowRain> I was just telling Asrah to talk to you about the skype community :P
[02:08.02] <Asrah> I was trying to explain the T situation to them, and a couple of the members kept introducing a tangent that wasnt applicable. I explained that part nicely a few times
[02:08.16] <Asrah> You mean the one WFM is part of? :P
[02:08.30] <Raggiedmon> I am not a op there or anything
[02:08.41] <Asrah> The one that Redd/Sleepinglion is an admin of?
[02:08.53] <ShadowRain> WFM isn't in it that I know of
[02:09.25] <ShadowRain> and not every lion is the sleepinglion you know :P
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[02:09.37] <Asrah> Someone using his name was in Islea at the time. That specific one admitted to it
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[02:10.23] <Asrah> Also, the skype profile name and nickname were "redd" and "sleepinglion" i forget which was which though
[02:10.25] <ShadowRain> too many pronouns for me to track who you're talking about...
[02:10.57] <Asrah> Hes someone who got klined from darkmyst for haxxors to avoid perma bans from psifight
[02:11.24] <ShadowRain> if Islea is actually run by Redd imma laugh tbh
[02:11.38] <Asrah> Obviously, people can change, and he didnt seem that bad in islea. Actually seemed like he decided to put practice into his abilities instead of being a troll shit
[02:12.18] <Asrah> Im not sure if Redd is the head, or just an appointed chat admin
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[02:12.43] <Rayn2_> Lol @ ShadowRain
[02:14.17] <Raggiedmon> I find it intresting the veiw is that the chat is a living entity named Islea, an the community has been open a year, if is a living entity, a year is awfully young to be relied on so much as the owner o chat seems to
[02:14.37] <Rayn2_> Who is islea
[02:15.52] <Raggiedmon> Not sure a who, but there is a skype chat called Islea were there is more pratice than IRC an some sparring an such
[02:16.01] <Asrah> It may well be Maeror. Thoughtforms are a thing
[02:16.10] <Rayn2_> I don't do Skype chats
[02:17.03] <Asrah> Also, people can put their abilities and knowledge into thoughtforms. So maybe its a case of relying on themselves in an autonomous sense
[02:17.12] <Rayn2_> I am also not fond of contemporary occultic ideas
[02:17.16] <Rayn2_> I'm picky
[02:17.57] <Asrah> You might find them alright if you give them a chance.
[02:18.41] <Rayn2_> Asrah I think post modern magical ideas are reactions to tight social ideas of reality
[02:19.01] <Rayn2_> They are magical hippies
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[02:19.50] <Asrah> From what ive seen, they operate based on "do and see" rather than an overhead default value
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[02:20.21] <Rayn2_> Asrah that made no sense to me
[02:20.37] <Asrah> Overhead default values = religion or cultist ideals
[02:20.52] <Asrah> "Do and see" = Experimentation to see what, if anything happens, and then working from there
[02:21.18] <Rayn2_> Asrah contemporary magic tends to be agnostic
[02:21.53] <Rayn2_> Asrah I'm more like mathematian when it comes to magic
[02:22.30] <Rayn2_> Asrah I use math to represent things forces and principles and employ them via seals
[02:22.48] <Rayn2_> I find most pop magic insipid
[02:22.48] <Asrah> Im not gonna comment on that cause im not sure what "contemporary magic" means. But, as long as you are respectful theyll give you a chance regardless of your views. At least that was the experience i had with them
[02:23.11] <Rayn2_> Asrah magic that living people can recall
[02:23.38] <Asrah> Do you define living as in "physically here" and dead as "spiritually here?"
[02:23.52] <Rayn2_> Asrah physically living
[02:24.58] <Asrah> Why would the magic that a physically living being "can" recall differ than what an entity can recall?
[02:25.04] <Asrah> from what*
[02:25.15] <Rayn2_> Asrah I'm not fond of the practices
[02:25.29] <Rayn2_> That is all
[02:26.09] <Asrah> I see
[02:26.52] <Asrah> Ok, what if i explain this way? Practices which have different connotations or context depending on your view of the practices more than the practices themselves?
[02:27.19] <Asrah> Seems more like a personal separation into two "schools" than a practical one
[02:27.59] <Rayn2_> I just told you
[02:28.04] <Rayn2_> I like math
[02:28.31] <KiraMoravvi> Heya
[02:29.26] <Asrah> I see
[02:30.47] <Rayn2_> I have no interest in popular forms of contemporary magic
[02:32.35] <Asrah> Well, if thats how you want to lump every magic "physically alive" beings do together, thats your right. i dont agree, but hey thats irrelevant
[02:33.07] <Asrah> Oh look at that, were finally in proper context arent we meatsack? Wonder how long thatll last, its been bucking pretty hard today
[02:33.56] <Rayn2_> Are you calling me meatsack?
[02:34.25] <Rayn2_> Asrah do you not know what the word contemporary means?
[02:35.39] <Rayn2_> Asrah I am an artists too so I tend to practice magic for the aesthetic
[02:35.55] <Rayn2_> I find most contemporary versions ugly
[02:35.59] <Rayn2_> No art
[02:36.08] <ShadowRain> two words: grant morrison
[02:36.28] <Rayn2_> Lol
[02:36.58] * Lionell (~Lionell@842092.A59B0B.82BA1D.7D3362) has joined channel #psc_annex
[02:41.42] <Rayn2_> ShadowRain I like his xmen stuff
[02:42.08] <Asrah> No im saying my meatsack finally had a conversation in proper tone and context
[02:42.08] <Rayn2_> I find his magic insipid and not elegant
[02:42.19] <Rayn2_> Ok
[02:42.22] <Asrah> See how much different that was to how our conversations normally go?
[02:42.30] <Rayn2_> Asrah I like beauty
[02:42.58] <Rayn2_> I find order beautiful
[02:44.06] <Rayn2_> Asrah my boyfriend is an actor and I'm a visual artists and musician
[02:44.31] <Asrah> No i have no idea what contemporary means
[02:44.40] <Rayn2_> I typically specialize in musical and visual enchantment
[02:44.55] <Asrah> So, magic that is done while alive?
[02:45.03] <Asrah> THat ... that ... umm
[02:45.06] <Rayn2_> Nvm
[02:45.13] <Asrah> Well, i personally consider entities alive :P
[02:45.42] <Rayn2_> Asrah is the revolutionary war contemporary?
[02:46.27] <Asrah> Is it?
[02:46.34] <ShadowRain> *facepalms*
[02:46.50] <Asrah> the obvious answer is no, i was just being silly :P
[02:47.12] <Rayn2_> Asrah OK then
[02:47.26] <Rayn2_> Apply that context to magic
[02:47.33] <ShadowRain> "modern day" magick
[02:47.39] * Asrah reminds the crowd that he will take words at their face value since hes not all that familiar with human language
[02:47.46] <ShadowRain> google the definition if you're having so many issues...
[02:47.51] <Rayn2_> Lol
[02:48.13] <Asrah> I did, and it said "alive and occuring" or "occuring in the present" So, if you live again 300 years in the future, will you not like the magic of that time?
[02:48.33] <Rayn2_> Not the point
[02:48.38] <Asrah> Then what is?
[02:48.40] <Lionell> it's the name of a period
[02:48.49] <Lionell> it's the name of -this- period, because it doesn't have a name yet
[02:48.52] <Asrah> I know you find it "insipid" but why label it like that?
[02:49.06] <Rayn2_> I focus on aesthetic properties via musical and visual channels
[02:49.16] <Rayn2_> My boyfriend uses theatre stuff
[02:49.30] <Asrah> Ok, in my understand of current earthly magical stuffs, aesthetic is irrelevant unless its also functional
[02:49.34] <Rayn2_> A lot of popular magic lacks beauty
[02:49.45] <Asrah> So i suppose you and contemporary magic just dont work together
[02:49.51] <Lionell> Rayn2_, that's actually pretty neat. Are there general principles you try to follow for that?
[02:49.52] <Rayn2_> Nope
[02:50.08] <Rayn2_> Lionell ask me again when I'm home
[02:50.11] <Lionell> alright
[02:50.14] <Rayn2_> Too much to type
[02:50.15] <Asrah> ShadowRain, am i doing a good job of convincing you that im stupid by the way i act? :P
[02:50.21] <Lionell> yeah no, if you're on phone I understand
[02:50.33] <Rayn2_> Lionell I am lol
[02:51.47] <Lionell> I to date still don't understand how people can stand being on IRC on a phone, it has been a terrible experience for me every time
[02:52.05] <ShadowRain> *sighs*
[02:52.28] <ShadowRain> lionell: meh it sucks but ive gotten used to it. having an app helps
[02:52.47] <Rayn2_> Lionell I treat magic as an art
[02:52.51] <Rayn2_> Not a science
[02:52.57] <Asrah> AndroIRC ftw?
[02:53.06] <Rayn2_> As a sorcerer I'm an artist
[02:53.27] <Asrah> I treat magic as "it works or it doesnt, fuck opinions"
[02:54.13] <Lionell> Rayn2_, my question was more whether there are qualities that make you prefer one type of magic over another, but as you said, we can talk about this later when you're on PC
[02:55.53] <Lionell> Asrah, I have a bit more that approach as well, although opinions are interesting for their own sake, often
[02:56.20] <Rayn2_> Lionell I'm not fond the popular usage of sigils because it has no aesthetic
[02:56.56] <Lionell> does this hold also for traditional things like solomonic or enochian sigils?
[02:57.09] <Lionell> they often have some pretty neat geometry in them
[02:57.18] <Rayn2_> Lionell they are more culturally rich so no
[02:57.23] <Lionell> ah
[02:57.23] <Lionell> ok
[02:57.30] <Rayn2_> You can see the art in grimoires
[02:58.23] <Rayn2_> Lionell I figured out how to convert graphic sigils into music and play them
[02:58.49] <Rayn2_> So I can cast enchantments from my flute
[02:59.17] <Lionell> flutes can only play one note at a time, right?
[02:59.20] <Rayn2_> I create sigils from a formula that represents an aesthetic
[02:59.24] <Lionell> no polyphony
[02:59.32] <Lionell> alright
[02:59.37] <Rayn2_> Lionell I draw from johm dewey
[03:00.04] <Rayn2_> Art can be thought of as an experience refined and amplified
[03:00.31] <Rayn2_> There is work the piece does to us
[03:00.34] <Lionell> pretty good definition of it actually, yeah
[03:00.47] <Rayn2_> That creates an artistic experience
[03:01.11] <Rayn2_> The energy of the piece is that
[03:01.19] <Rayn2_> I play on that
[03:01.58] <Rayn2_> The energy of the work is the power behind my magic
[03:02.21] <Lionell> do you consider only important the experience refined and amplified as it is received, or is it important that someone deliberately chose, refined and amplified this experience through his/her art?
[03:02.48] <Rayn2_> Lionell all art is intentionally done
[03:02.55] <Lionell> alright
[03:03.44] <Rayn2_> Lionell: ＋https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_as_Experience，
[03:04.31] <Rayn2_> Let me find a short summary
[03:05.22] <Rayn2_> Nope they are all wordy
[03:05.41] <Rayn2_> I draw from other artists too Lionell
[03:06.01] <Lionell> I think I have answers to my questions now, thank you
[03:06.22] <Rayn2_> Np
[03:07.09] <Rayn2_> I find a lot of magic boring to be honest
[03:07.29] <Asrah> I mean, i get where Rayn is coming from. However, i think hes limiting his horizons. but thats ok
[03:08.53] <Rayn2_> Identify is intrinsically limiting
[03:12.34] <Asrah> I dont identify, i use whatever
[03:13.08] <Rayn2_> Asrah you are not me therefore you're limited
[03:13.29] <Lionell> I care less about art than I care about beauty, tbh. Natural formations can be just as experience-transmitting as created works, and I find those in magic to be similarly uplifting
[03:14.19] <Asrah> That makes no sense Rayn
[03:14.26] <Lionell> or experience-creating would maybe be the more precise way to word it
[03:17.04] <Rayn2_> I'm logging into my pc
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[03:24.22] * Rayn is back
[03:24.40] <Rayn> Lionell, you interested in hearing about the model I operate within?
[03:24.54] <Lionell> I think you already gave me a good idea of it
[03:25.05] <Lionell> or at least where it more or less stands
[03:25.10] <Rayn> It is a little bit more complicated, lol
[03:25.22] <Lionell> of course
[03:25.38] <Lionell> however, I would be interested to learn a bit about your method to convert the sigil into a monophonic music
[03:26.53] <Rayn> Lionell, I pretty much picked an overarching concept, like entropy.
[03:27.18] <Rayn> I then wrote down synonyms for entropy.
[03:28.32] <Rayn> I picked three central ones. I associated those concepts to graphic sigils. I used three key sigils as three points of a triangular formation where the sides have the other sigils drawn on the side.
[03:29.10] <Lionell> ok
[03:29.12] <Rayn> Lionell, I pretty much took a note and associated it to the sigil.
[03:29.26] <Rayn> The whole how to is in my grimoire which I do not have.
[03:29.27] <Lionell> a single one?
[03:29.37] <Lionell> (single note
[03:29.38] <Lionell> )
[03:29.55] <Rayn> Lionell, no, different notes.
[03:30.35] <Rayn> Lionell, I ended up using some logs.
[03:30.55] <Rayn> I have not touched that system in a while, though.
[03:31.04] <Lionell> so the process of converting the sigil to notes was mostly hand-done and created a bit on-the-spot?
[03:31.19] <Rayn> On-the-spot?
[03:31.32] <Lionell> as in, improvised when you were doing it, not a planned system in advanced
[03:31.35] <Lionell> *advance
[03:31.40] <Rayn> Oh, the whole thing was planned.
[03:32.11] <Rayn> ShadowRain, saw a little bit of it when I was starting it.
[03:34.44] <Rayn> Lionell, are you familiar with encryption algorithms that use ciphers?
[03:34.51] <Lionell> a bit, yes
[03:34.54] <Rayn> Pretty much, I used the sigils as ciphers.
[03:35.02] <Lionell> ahh, ok
[03:35.51] <Rayn> Lionell, I stopped using that system because it was too bogged down.
[03:36.01] <Rayn> I am currently experimenting with other things.
[03:36.27] <Lionell> ok
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[03:36.51] <Rayn> Lionell, I hold that on a basic level, everything is pretty much mental.
[03:37.05] <Rayn> You can consider doing something and then decide to do something where those are different experiences.
[03:37.41] <Rayn> When you decide to do something, you can say that it is mental stuff working towards something. I consider energy to be an abstraction of that.
[03:38.01] <Rayn> This pretty much means I can do metaphysical actions via deciding to do them.
[03:38.30] <Lionell> can the mental stuff working towards something outlast the mind that thought of it? If I were to make a spell and then died, would you expect the magic to still be working?
[03:38.47] <Rayn> Lionell, yep.
[03:39.01] <Rayn> Lionell, the item would be "haunted" in a sense.
[03:39.30] <Rayn> You see that with books, a lot, actually.
[03:39.59] <Asrah> Yeah, one of the premises of magic is deciding to do it
[03:40.51] <Lionell> I have noticed a ridiculous success rate of the "method" of deciding to do a spell and never doing it because I forgot, so I can certainly see the appeal of that model
[03:41.07] <Rayn> Never doing it because you forgot?
[03:41.24] <Lionell> deciding that I'll do a spell tomorrow, and then forgetting completely about it
[03:41.29] <Lionell> and then a week later it manifests
[03:41.38] <Rayn> That follows a repression model that I do not believe in.
[03:41.48] <Lionell> the forgetting isn't really relevant
[03:42.00] <Asrah> Lionell, i forgot about nuking Rayn for his insolence lmao
[03:42.20] <Rayn> Lionell, I believe that optimal metaphysical performance depends on integration with self. A lot of post-modern occultic paths hold that forgetting the meaning of a sigil allows it to go to the subconscious mind that does something.
[03:42.32] <Asrah> Though ive since decided i dont care. "wrong on the internet, who knew" and all that
[03:42.40] <Rayn> That is called repression, actually.
[03:42.49] <Lionell> yes, I know this, and I also agree because I don't like that way. As said, the forgetting is not relevant here, I've had spells work without forgetting them
[03:43.17] <Rayn> Lionell, it is not just the deciding. There is a way it seems associated with what I do, so I reach for that and make the decision.
[03:43.41] <Rayn> What is happening is a nonphysical aspect of myself is shaping itself to be what I want it so do where I am deciding to do that thing.
[03:43.44] <Asrah> ^
[03:44.03] <Asrah> To the part about "seems associated"
[03:44.08] <Rayn> Lionell, since that is basic, that means I can do cool things like materialize what people call energy or even physical actions.
[03:44.49] <Rayn> Lionell, if I wanted to create "fire energy", I would just need to link to the concept of fire and decide to do that. Fire energy would this be created.
[03:44.57] <Rayn> thus*
[03:45.05] <Lionell> the thing is, I find in traditional symbolism a lot of very strong associations that seem deeper than just mine, and they work well as gateways for particular mental concepts
[03:45.14] <Rayn> Lionell, it does nothing for me.
[03:45.36] <Rayn> Lionell, I hold them to be arbitrary which means I can make my own, which I do.
[03:45.44] <Lionell> well, ok.
[03:46.03] <Asrah> Rayn that is literally chaos magic sir
[03:46.21] <Asrah> Maybe the methods in which you go about it arent "modern" but that is definitely modern magic o.o
[03:46.46] <Rayn> Which is why energy is not a big thing to me. It can be created.
[03:47.04] <Asrah> I suppose you might not define it the same way. Im not trying to hang up on the terms. what im meaning is that the stuff you described is a very big part of modern magic.
[03:47.20] <Rayn> All it is, to me, a concept doing something.
[03:47.34] <Asrah> Again, i figured you wouldnt define it the same way
[03:47.38] <Rayn> Lionell, I will explain what I mean.
[03:47.52] <Lionell> I understand.
[03:48.00] <Rayn> I have the ability to link with an underlying concept of whatever someone does with energy in such a way that their intention is my intention.
[03:48.15] <Rayn> This means I can make it do whatever I want.
[03:48.46] <Asrah> Yeah that control over abstracts is part of will working, chaos magic, however you wanna call it. Thats not an ancient practice though, its actually more modern
[03:48.51] <Asrah> Its not "new" its just not old
[03:48.58] <Rayn> Which is typically how I redirect psychic attacks. I become the intention behind it so that it is now mine and I just do whatever I want with it.
[03:49.58] <Lionell> I've found many symbols to carry intentions that were too heavy or otherwise too large for me to be able to bend significantly. Have you ever worked with group egregores?
[03:50.15] <Lionell> or deities, for that matter
[03:50.18] <Rayn> Lionell, I call that power.
[03:50.36] <Rayn> I have the ability to bounce myself off other people, so I amplify the power I have.
[03:50.48] <Rayn> Lionell, to say it a different way, I can convert my telepathic range to power.
[03:51.00] <Asrah> More power to you honestly. I just think youd do well for yourself to not be so worried about something being contemporary, and just using it if it works for you
[03:51.21] <Lionell> so your power is proportionate to the number of people around you?
[03:51.23] <Rayn> Asrah, it does not work for me because of dissonance. That is the point.
[03:51.36] <Rayn> Lionell, the amount of connections I have to things and how I can amplify them.
[03:51.42] <Rayn> You could call me a conduit I suppose.
[03:51.42] <Lionell> right
[03:52.11] <Lionell> have you ever tried looking at puerto rican magical symbolism?
[03:52.15] <Asrah> But normally people define the things youre talking about as "chaos magic" or "will working." Something like that.
[03:52.34] <Rayn> Lionell, I come from a lineage of conjurers.
[03:52.40] <Asrah> The stuff youre talking about is from more recent realizations with magic for those "physically alive"
[03:52.46] <Lionell> are their symbols any use for you?
[03:52.49] <Rayn> Asrah, it is not chaos magic.
[03:52.57] <Asrah> I dont expect you to use the same terms mate
[03:52.58] <Rayn> Lionell, yeah. I am well versed in Hoodoo.
[03:53.05] <Lionell> ok
[03:53.10] <Rayn> That is the conjurer aspect.
[03:53.15] <Asrah> Im just saying, your descriptions, in your words, are literal 1:1 methods that are not that old
[03:53.16] <Lionell> <Rayn> Lionell, it does nothing for me.
[03:53.17] <Lionell> <Rayn> Lionell, I hold them to be arbitrary which means I can make my own, which I do.
[03:53.21] <Lionell> ^ is this still valid for those?
[03:53.30] <Rayn> It is complicated.
[03:53.44] <Asrah> When you said you dont do modern magic, i expected you meant stuff like runes, enochian, maybe hermetic.
[03:54.02] <Asrah> I didnt expect that youd more or less describe using yourself as power
[03:54.15] <Rayn> Lionell, it is more or less like I have a sympathy with certain things. I can draw on them if I decide to, but I do not.
[03:54.28] <Lionell> ok
[03:54.50] <Rayn> I have a natural sympathy with certain concepts and certain beings because of an ancestral tie. I have picked a different path, though.
[03:55.37] <Rayn> Asrah, I have no interests in angels or runes.
[03:55.48] <Lionell> but you do believe in said ancestral tie being a thing, ok. (I do too, hence I was wondering when you said all symbols were arbitrary whether you had simply looked at the wrong ones. You didn't, ok.)
[03:56.06] <Asrah> Well, what you described in your own words is very direct magic. Non modern magic is almost wholly ritualistic.
[03:56.18] <Asrah> Modern magic is more "power to the person" rather than "power to the things they wield"
[03:56.24] <Rayn> Asrah, why are you so obsessed with trying to label me as things I am not?
[03:56.25] <Asrah> Err, power from the things they wield
[03:56.46] <Asrah> Im not, just saying youre holding of various forms of magic to "modern" or "not modern" is limiting your pool of resources
[03:57.16] <Rayn> Asrah, my lineage is that of a conjurer, witch, or root worker. My chosen practice is sorcery. I am not a chaos magician.
[03:57.19] <Asrah> If thats what you wanna do, well more power to you. In the end its your choice to make. But, i disagree with the choice
[03:57.28] <Asrah> Thats fine, you be whatever you want
[03:57.50] <Rayn> Asrah, there is nothing about my practices that are like chaos magic. I don't even use sigils remotely the same way.
[03:58.08] <ShadowRain> lol. even I don't think what rayn does is chaos magick. if you think his stuff is, you *really* don't understand it.
[03:58.32] <Asrah> ShadowRAin, the things HE described, are the same as those described by people who have called it that
[03:58.32] <Lionell> chaos magic is a weird set of practices to describe anyway
[03:58.42] <Asrah> Im pointing out the silliness of his manner of labeling
[03:58.44] <Rayn> Lionell, Santeria intersects with Hoodoo. That are the Afro aspects of the symbology.
[03:58.57] <ShadowRain> Lionell: it is, but... Rayn's stuff has a very different flavor
[03:59.09] <Asrah> ShadowRain, according to the past OEC's, what he does is chaos magic, if its 1:1 as he describes. Get the fuck over it bitch
[03:59.30] <Rayn> Asrah, Chaos Magic operates under the idea that nothing is true everything is permitted, right?
[03:59.38] <Rayn> I fundamentally reject that idea.
[03:59.41] <Asrah> Try fucking correcting someone without looking down on them, no?
[03:59.48] <Lionell> ^ what Rayn just said
[04:00.02] <Lionell> chaos magic allows practically everything
[04:00.08] <Rayn> I do not.
[04:00.08] <Asrah> I dont know about that much rayn. Ive known plenty of those chaos magic types that have agreed they have limits
[04:00.26] <Asrah> The fundamental aspects are using yourself directly to influence events, things, etc
[04:00.47] <Lionell> no, the fundamental aspect is "There may be no absolute truth"
[04:00.55] <Asrah> Ive never heard that
[04:01.02] <Rayn> Then you don't know what chaos magic is.
[04:01.05] <Lionell> it is part of the initiation oath of the IOT
[04:01.09] <Rayn> Asrah, I have been to their studios in NYC.
[04:01.19] <Asrah> Ive heard that noone whos talked about that stuff has ever agreed with anything about objective reality
[04:01.33] <Rayn> Then you were not talking to chaos magicians.
[04:01.41] <Asrah> Rayn, i dont care what is defined as chaos magic. I guarantee you im far better than you are at the things youve described @_@
[04:01.43] <Rayn> It is part of how they believe belief and self are tools.
[04:01.52] <ShadowRain> plus, his preference for traditionalism and rigid definitions would give any chaos magician an aneurysm :P
[04:01.53] <Asrah> I mean, i drew 10 grand cash to myself, what the hell have you done significant?
[04:02.04] <Lionell> ShadowRain, lol, yeah
[04:02.08] <Rayn> Asrah, you can't be better than me at something I created.
[04:02.10] <Asrah> Yall cant go 5 minutes without throwing out personal jabs
[04:02.13] <Lionell> speaking of which, I should finish that enochian script for tomorrow
[04:02.15] <Asrah> You did NOT create that
[04:02.26] <Rayn> Asrah, the magical system I use I created...
[04:02.50] <Asrah> The exact specifics to the letter, i suppose thats possible. but you did NOT create the idea of using yourself directly as power
[04:03.12] <Rayn> Asrah, technically, I do not use myself directly as power. You did not read what I said carefully.
[04:03.19] <ShadowRain> *reads backlog a little* lmao. "it's chaos magick" "no and here's why" "fine but I'm still better than you even if it's not" ...seriously? XD
[04:03.22] <Asrah> Now, the only i said is that what you described has been called chaos magic alot. I did not say youre a chaos mage, and i DID say i dont expect you to use the terms
[04:03.34] <Asrah> I didnt say the 3rd thing
[04:04.06] <Rayn> Asrah, there is nothing chaosy about it. I don't paradigm shift. I don't use quasi eclectic practices.
[04:04.11] <Asrah> It does fit very exactly with whats been called chaos magic in the oecs. As an entity, i NEVER find various methods of doing things named under labels
[04:04.43] <Rayn> I am puzzle yet intrigued by this.
[04:04.52] <Asrah> Ive seen plenty of conflict from methods used, but ive never heard of the words "psionics" "psi" "chaos magic" until i was around the OEC's
[04:05.20] <Asrah> They are human terms, and it does not change that  how one person labels it is not necessarily going to be how Rayn does. Ive n ever argued AGAINT that
[04:05.31] <ShadowRain> chaos magick is more widespread than psionics... the the OEC's understanding of it is usually incomplete at best :P
[04:05.39] <Asrah> Rayn is NOT a chaos mage, the mention of that term was so i could attempt to correlate with Rayn in the discussion
[04:05.49] <Lionell> Asrah, you are talking about some practical aspects of chaos magic that happen to line up with what Rayn does, in the form that they rely mainly on the self and use mental "decisions" as a form of spellmaking. This is also true of eg. most satanic magic. Chaos is much more than that
[04:06.10] <Rayn> Lionell, I like demonic symbology.
[04:06.13] <Asrah> Yes, as i said, "other people call it so" i never said "Rayn is so." Ive explained this 4 times now, how is this difficult?
[04:06.16] <Icra> ShadowRain> plus, his preference for traditionalism and rigid definitions would give any chaos magician an aneurysm
[04:06.23] <Icra> Well, it's giving me heartburn at least
[04:07.00] <Rayn> Asrah, I did not learn from the OEC.
[04:07.04] <Asrah> My original point was that labeling methods or even specific "forms" of magic as "insipid" while his right, DO limit his pool of resources
[04:07.19] <Rayn> As I said, my family practices magic. I learned magic offline from books and offline people.
[04:07.32] <Asrah> If he wants to do that fine, im just curious why, and i dont see that as good for growth. Now, if he wants to continue regardless, fine by me.
[04:07.42] <Rayn> I am originally from New York, so I've actually been to a lot of these people studios.
[04:07.48] <Asrah> Ok.
[04:07.59] <Asrah> Im sorry for the mixup about the terms, was only looking for a common ground to work with
[04:08.13] <Rayn> Asrah, why is obvious. How can I practice something that says there is no objectivity or truth when I believe there is truth and objectivity?
[04:08.28] <Lionell> *there might be no objectivity or truth
[04:08.32] <Lionell> otherwise that statement would be one
[04:08.35] <Lionell> :^)
[04:08.48] <Rayn> Lionell, chaos magic is filled with contradictions that make my head hurt.
[04:08.49] <Asrah> Well, first thing, ditch beliefs
[04:08.52] <Icra> There is objectively no objective reality.
[04:08.56] <Rayn> Asrah, no.
[04:08.58] <Asrah> Excuse me, first thing, ditch beliefs if you want to
[04:09.00] <Icra> Any objections?
[04:09.01] <Asrah> I imagine you dont
[04:09.17] <Rayn> Asrah, yes, so that means there is no reason I SHOULD practice chaos magic.
[04:09.24] <Lionell> Rayn, I can understand, I personally love the approach
[04:09.33] <Asrah> Rayn, if i were to define chaos magic here and now: Magic in which you exert direct influence of events, people, etc etc
[04:09.36] <Lionell> but it's not for everyone
[04:09.45] <Rayn> Lionell, it was originally for me, lol
[04:09.47] <Asrah> Chaos being change, magic being a method. Change method
[04:09.48] <Lionell> Asrah, yeah see, that's a terrible definition of it. You should use a different word
[04:10.07] <Rayn> Asrah, you don't know what you are talking about...
[04:10.10] <Asrah> But thats how its been defined in the OEC's, and as i said earlier, not the best with human terms.
[04:10.17] <Asrah> No Rayn, you think im trying to correct you and im not
[04:10.19] <Lionell> well, the OEC is wrong, then
[04:10.26] <Rayn> Chaos, in chaos magic, is used in the context of something like Tao. It is all and it is nothing.
[04:10.33] <Asrah> My only purpose for the term was to attempt to relate to his experiences
[04:10.40] <Rayn> It is not change; rather, it is the illusion of change.
[04:10.43] <Lionell> "mental magic" would probably be a better term for that
[04:11.01] <Lionell> or even just no-tools magic
[04:11.01] <Asrah> I mean, you can directly exert influence thats non mental
[04:11.21] <Icra> As for "Can't be better than me at something I created," that's got to be the most ignorant statement of all time.
[04:11.24] <Asrah> Ive flared my aura a bit when angry and people have backed off. thats influence, though not "chaos" in essense i guess
[04:11.49] <Asrah> icra, im curious what exactly Rayn thinks i do to get things done
[04:11.58] <Rayn> Asrah, I don't care, to be honest.
[04:12.04] <Asrah> I wonder how i got that 10 grand 2.5 years later?
[04:12.17] <Lionell> chaos is an entire mentality and approach to reality, it's not just a way of doing spells
[04:12.23] <Asrah> I wonder how ive gotten myself out of sticky situations without resorting to the same violence im threatened with
[04:12.38] <Rayn> Chaotes like this definition of chaos
[04:12.41] <Rayn> "Chaos comes before all principles of order & entropy, it's neither a god nor a maggot, its idiotic desires encompass & define every possible choreography, all meaningless aethers & phlogistons: its masks are crystallizations of its own facelessness, like clouds"
[04:12.48] <Rayn> Hakem Bey is big with them.
[04:12.53] <Asrah> I suppose Lionell. But, the OEC"s are where i first heard the terms, and i dont really care what they might "objectively mean"
[04:12.54] <Rayn> ＋http://hermetic.com/bey/taz1.html，
[04:13.12] <Icra> dafuq is Hakem Bey
[04:13.14] <Asrah> Rayn, while i applaud you for sticking to your guns, its best to leave religion and belief out of magic
[04:13.28] <Rayn> Icra, someone a lot of Chaotes read?
[04:13.41] <Rayn> I am an atheist.
[04:13.48] <Icra> Neat. I'll have to check it out.
[04:13.58] <Asrah> Now, ShadowRain, i request that, next time you dont understand something and wish to correct me, dont. Just ask me what i mean
[04:14.02] <Lionell> Rayn, I'd argue that's not really a definition, but yeah chaos isn't something you can or should even define properly
[04:14.06] <Rayn> Asrah, I am more or less Goetic. I reject the idea of order in the context of the idea of shadow self.
[04:14.16] <Icra> Man, this Peter Carroll guy is just the bee's knees.
[04:14.29] <Rayn> Or, I think of it as the shadow cast by light.
[04:14.38] <Lionell> the more time passes the less I like Carroll
[04:14.43] <Asrah> Thats fine, but belief, especially of religious type, has caused quite alot of delusions among magus
[04:14.43] <Lionell> and I think that goes for a lot of chaotes
[04:14.53] <Rayn> Lionell, I am fond of incubus.
[04:14.59] <Rayn> My boyfriend is not...
[04:15.12] <Asrah> Unless youve got an answer for things inherent to the psyche like bias, cognitive dissonance, etc, im not convinced youll walk away from it all unscathed
[04:15.24] <Lionell> as someone that much prefers working with angels than with demons, I can relate to your boyfriend. /taste
[04:15.40] <Lionell> >walking away from magic unscathed
[04:15.44] <Icra> So I've seen. There's another guy people really like
[04:15.55] <Icra> cannae remember the name, but he's kinda a big deal.
[04:16.06] <Rayn> Lionell, you can represent me by the sun and the moon. I am highly logically and I love order, but, at the same time, I want to be free to feel.
[04:16.21] <Asrah> LIonell, i mean walking away from the mental gymnastics required to view magic and reality itself through religious glasses
[04:16.27] * KiraMoravvi (~AndChat482736@OWIRCN-959a7c43.threembb.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
[04:16.33] <Rayn> Angels represent guardians of where you should not go. Demons represent what is beyond that, essentially.
[04:16.42] <Asrah> If hes already seeing everything he senses in the light of his religion, then hes already lost that battle
[04:16.56] <Lionell> Asrah, who is to say the system someone has isn't the best way to view it?
[04:17.06] <Lionell> you're seeing it through the light of your beliefs too
[04:17.14] <Asrah> Thats not the point. Its not about grades
[04:17.18] <Rayn> Lionell, I love the idea of temptation and seduction.
[04:17.40] <Icra> A system that inherently rejects other systems as wrong just isn't my bag.
[04:17.42] <Lionell> Rayn, I have -completely- different picture of what it means to be angelic and what it means to be demonic, so yeah
[04:17.45] <Asrah> Lionell, its not through the light of beliefs @_@ Its through the light of having seen alot of the religious types batshit crazy after a while
[04:17.51] <Lionell> and I also really don't like temptation
[04:17.53] <Asrah> Now, maybe that aint Rayns future, fine. I hope not
[04:18.01] <Lionell> Asrah, I'm pretty sure Rayn is one of the least religious here
[04:18.19] <Rayn> Lionell, you will see it when you get deep into it.
[04:18.27] <Asrah> Im going to disagree there, only because every time he discusses his reasons for his methods "my religion"
[04:18.40] <Rayn> Lionell demons are the antipoles of angels where angels represent "light".
[04:19.04] <Asrah> Im gonna disagree there to. Ive never seen an 'angel" or "demon" thats either ... well heavenly or hell ... ly?
[04:19.11] <Rayn> The sun is symbolically masculine and logical whereas the moon, or the night, is symbolically seen as emotional and feminine.
[04:19.16] <Lionell> yes, light is perfection, manifestation as was intended, harmony as was created for the massive piece of art that is reality
[04:19.29] <Rayn> Lionell, I am a dynamic person that rejects the idea of harmony.
[04:19.34] <Asrah> Funny thing, human texts have marred alot of groups of entities into groups of facets and attributes that are not inherent
[04:19.49] <Asrah> While yeah, im sure plenty of "angels" have "light" im sure plenty of "demons" also do.
[04:19.51] <Lionell> well alright then, you and I have some deep differences there
[04:20.09] <Rayn> Lionell, technically, I practice "black" magic.
[04:20.12] <Asrah> I dont believe in harmony or disharmony. Things work how they do, and dont how they dont
[04:20.23] <Rayn> Lionell, a lot of the magic I practice is inspired by left hand practices.
[04:20.36] <Lionell> Asrah, have you ever tried speaking to either angels or demons? It's interesting to do
[04:20.52] <Rayn> I think people are angels and demons.
[04:20.54] <Lionell> Rayn, ok
[04:21.09] <Asrah> Ive intervened in some disputes between various entity parties, species is irrelevant
[04:21.12] <Lionell> I started a bit in LHP mentality, but since then have been moving steadily more towards harmony
[04:21.26] <Lionell> Asrah, I mean, go and take some famous angel or demon and call them, and talk with them
[04:21.27] <Asrah> Generally i stay to myself unless i see something thats getting out of hand
[04:21.27] <Rayn> Harmony creates stagnation in my opinion.
[04:21.39] <Lionell> progress is only needed outside of perfection
[04:21.40] <Asrah> Ok? They wont come no matter how much i beckon
[04:21.42] <Rayn> Conflict drives growth, and conflict emerges due to things being not balanced.
[04:21.54] <Asrah> Rayn, "harmony" does indeed create stagnation
[04:21.56] <Lionell> you can grow without destruction
[04:22.02] <Icra> Progress drives a Mazda.
[04:22.04] <Asrah> Part of the reason so many entities fuck off the deep end after a while
[04:22.09] <Rayn> Lionell, I don't speak of destruction.
[04:22.24] <Lionell> you speak of conflict and unbalance though. I don't think those things are needed for growth at all
[04:22.36] <Lionell> all there needs to be is desire and ability
[04:22.41] <Asrah> Rayn, forgive me. Im so used to speaking with idiots that im afraid i dont recall how to speak with someone who works in your manner
[04:22.42] <Rayn> Lionell, conflict is having a broken s key.
[04:22.45] <Rayn> What do you do?
[04:22.54] <Lionell> and we are lazy creatures so the desire is usually awakened by conflict or need
[04:22.58] <Lionell> but it doesn't have to be that way
[04:23.02] <Rayn> Well, you hit z. So conflict in the form of having a broken key on your keyboard resulted in a creative solution.
[04:23.25] <Lionell> I don't dispute that conflict can lead to growth
[04:23.29] <Lionell> I am disputing that it is necessary
[04:24.07] <Rayn> I am not fond of angelic stuff.
[04:24.35] <Lionell> that is fine, you are not the only one, and it is also really far from your ancestral line
[04:24.48] <Rayn> The whole thing is, actually, lol
[04:24.56] <Rayn> No mine is.
[04:24.59] <Rayn> Your's is not.
[04:25.16] <Rayn> Hoodoo is an African-American Christian synthesis, in a sense.
[04:25.38] <Lionell> yeah, that's pretty damn far from switzerland
[04:25.47] <Rayn> lol
[04:27.13] <Rayn> I think maybe you can say I am at the twilight where I am at a weird intersection between dark and light forces. I am highly emotional and a being of desire while, at the same time, being obsessed with order and logic.
[04:27.39] <Rayn> I am obsessed with my demons while, at the same time, looking for ways to control them.
[04:28.21] <Asrah> Rayn what you described is the human condition
[04:28.34] <Rayn> Yes, it is...
[04:29.07] <Lionell> it still says a lot about his metaphysical worldview
[04:29.15] <Lionell> even if it isn't exactly a rare view
[04:29.40] <Rayn> Lionell, that is kind of the point, though. It is not rare.
[04:30.02] <Asrah> Yall dont wanna know my wordlview :P
[04:31.23] <Rayn> Magicians tend to develop a highly condescending view. They tend to view themselves as more enlightened than others.
[04:31.46] <Rayn> The more I practice, the more I realize I am quite the opposite. I am like everyone else.
[04:32.42] <Asrah> I dont view myself as more, but im certainly stronger :p
[04:32.44] <Lionell> Rayn, the point where I disagree with that view is that I don't see emotions and desire as inherently demonic, nor order or logic inherently angelic. Harmony is angelic and the seeking of it likewise, and demonic are those that reject harmony or that create disharmony for other reasons, to use that word maybe a bit too excessively
[04:32.51] <Icra> To be quite honest, Rayn, you could have fooled me.
[04:32.52] <Asrah> As more? as smarter* god type properly
[04:33.11] <Rayn> Lionell, I don't think they are inherently anything.
[04:33.26] <Lionell> yes, serenity helps for harmony, but it's not exactly logical in itself nor is it necessary. Logic is a tool not a state of being
[04:34.05] <Rayn> Lionell, I am not going to get into a whole debate with you, but you REALLY should read some classic material on angelic spheres.
[04:34.21] <Rayn> The idea pushed by the Stoics was pretty much reason.
[04:35.01] <Rayn> Your faith in logic and your disposition towards things angelic does not surprise me.
[04:35.12] <Lionell> nor should it, I mean, we've talked a lot already
[04:35.15] <Asrah> Your lack of faith disturbs me!
[04:35.30] <Rayn> Lionell, I have something for you. Hold on.
[04:35.43] <Lionell> Asrah, do you even have a cosmology? You sounded like you rejected having religious beliefs about magic a lot
[04:35.45] <Rayn> ＋http://hermetic.com/caduceus/qabalah/046_kab.html，
[04:36.07] <Asrah> A cosmology?
[04:36.35] <Rayn> Wrong link.
[04:36.38] <Rayn> Hold on.
[04:37.08] <Rayn> I cannot find it.
[04:37.15] <Rayn> Lionell, here is a book for you:
[04:37.22] <Lionell> Asrah, worldview, I guess, but not in the sense of attitude but in the sense of beliefs
[04:37.27] <Asrah> I reject anything thats not "i tried to see what worked, then i used the solution that worked the best"
[04:37.58] <Asrah> So yeah, from my POV, yall have alot to learn about practicality. Thats not saying youre not good at your preferred practices. I just dont see them as very relevant
[04:38.01] <Rayn> Qabalah, Qliphoth and Goetic Magic: ＋https://www.amazon.com/Qabalah-Qliphoth-Goetic-Thomas-Karlsson/dp/0972182063，
[04:38.09] <Rayn> I don't take the cosmology litterally.
[04:38.52] <Lionell> in case I haven't mentioned it yet, if I would to place myself in some system it is chaos magic. I change paradigms a lot, Asrah. There are just some paradigms I feel more comfortable in than others
[04:39.18] <Rayn> I'm a sorcerer that draws heavily on Goetic themed things.
[04:40.05] <Lionell> Rayn, I'm not sure going into Qlippoth is really the right thing for me now, but I will keep the book in mind when I will come to study it
[04:40.17] <Rayn> Lionell, it is just a book and not a how to, lol
[04:40.34] <Asrah> Alright ShadowRain
[04:40.37] <Asrah> Oh boy
[04:41.31] <Asrah> Im not the dipshit that misinterpreted my attempt to use a specific term to try to more closely relate to what Rayn was saying, for ease of discussion. Im also not the one that in turn insulted that person when they could h ave just asked what i was after
[04:41.45] * Rayn is so confused
[04:41.46] <Asrah> If its not clear, theres some speech issues there.
[04:41.51] <Lionell> ?
[04:41.57] <Asrah> From a PM. Im ridiculously tired of the disrespect
[04:42.04] <Lionell> answer PMs in PMs
[04:42.09] <Rayn> ^^
[04:42.20] <Lionell> they're in a PM for a reason
[04:43.34] <ShadowRain> disrespect... that's amusing. given you've called me a bitch twice :P
[04:43.39] <Asrah> You are a bitch
[04:43.45] <Rayn> Wow...
[04:43.52] <Rayn> Okay.
[04:43.53] <ShadowRain> ok, three :P
[04:43.57] <Asrah> Stop acting like it, i wont call you it. I dont sit there and insult someone when i should have just asked what you meant
[04:44.02] <Turbo> Calm down, folks.
[04:44.05] <Rayn> Anywho, Lionell I can practice Hoodoo. It is just not my cup of tea.
[04:44.06] <Asrah> you misunderstood me, and insulted me over it, so fuck you
[04:44.42] <ShadowRain> insult? I said you were wrong :P
[04:44.47] <Asrah> ShadowRain, if im so much less capable than yall, do something
[04:44.57] <Asrah> No, you keep throwing in insults to my intelligence
[04:45.20] <ShadowRain> why should I do anything? you're digging yourself deeper faster than I ever could :P
[04:45.35] <Rayn> Lionell, I am not saying you should not deal with angels if that is your thing, by the way.
[04:45.35] <Asrah> Deeper in what?
[04:45.42] <ShadowRain> sorry y'all I'm probably interrupting your convo
[04:45.58] <Lionell> Rayn, I understand, thank you for sharing
[04:46.03] <Lionell> no we're pretty much done
[04:46.08] <Asrah> Motherfucker, deeper in what.
[04:46.13] <Rayn> While you are here, I hope this convo gives you some context about why I acted so insane a few years ago, ShadowRain.
[04:46.14] <Lionell> and I am really sad right now because my headphones just suddenly stopped working
[04:46.25] <Asrah> Ive seriously had more than enough of this insulting shit when someone thinks i have something wrong
[04:46.37] <Rayn> Then please leave -_-
[04:46.43] <Asrah> So im gonna tell you this, next time you wanna open your mouth, make sure that what comes out is a request for me to explain myself
[04:47.24] <ShadowRain> Rayn: sorry, I've been running around doing stuff for most of it :/ I'm just sitting down for dinner.
[04:47.56] <Rayn> lol
[04:48.27] <Rayn> ShadowRain, the cliff notes version is Lionell deals with angels. I deal with demons in regards to delving into my shadow self. Shadow self took over and me nuts.
[04:48.30] <Asrah> Its really amusing im being called ignorant by basically the sum of psionicsonline, the only community to never progress beyond basic psionics
[04:48.49] <Asrah> But now, somehow yall are all into "advanced" magics. I dont agree with calling anything advanced, just getting the idea acrossed
[04:49.20] <ShadowRain> oooh.... ok yeah that would make sense
[04:49.24] <ShadowRain> @ Rayn
[04:49.26] <Lionell> Asrah, I came here to learn psionics because this is one of the very few actually decent places to learn it. I did other magic before and I do other magic on the side, as said, paradigm shift
[04:49.46] <Rayn> I do psi and magic. I think everyone in here are psi magic hybrids.
[04:49.59] * WayfaringMan (~wayfarer@OWIRCN-d4de0ae4.md.comcast.net) has joined channel #psc_annex
[04:50.01] <ShadowRain> Asrah: I've never claimed to be advanced... in fact I don't think you know even the basics about what I actually practice which is funny
[04:50.11] <Asrah> Then tell the channel what you practice
[04:50.20] <WayfaringMan> lmao oh we're doing this thing again
[04:50.24] * WayfaringMan yawns
[04:50.25] <ShadowRain> oh most of them know already
[04:50.25] <Asrah> The invocation thing was obvious, and i attempted to relate with middle ground terms.
[04:50.33] <ShadowRain> you're the one who hasn't even bothered to find out
[04:50.42] <ShadowRain> nor will I be discussing it with you :P
[04:50.53] <Asrah> And my lack of interest in your personal information outside of the realm of discussion means what?
[04:50.57] <Asrah> Then shut the fuck up about it
[04:51.00] <WayfaringMan> ohhdaaaamn, them consequences
[04:51.02] <ShadowRain> WayfaringMan: hi! :P I've been called a bitch three times but apparently I insult people too much because I say they're wrong when they are. how are you?
[04:51.24] <Asrah> You said i was calling him a chaos mage, and i wasnt
[04:51.37] <Asrah> Im not the one too stupid to understand something i explained 4 times prior to your comment
[04:51.42] <Turbo> Hey hey Wm. Long time no see
[04:51.54] <ShadowRain> Rayn: did or did he not say that what you practice was chaos magick?
[04:51.57] <Lionell> you were saying he was doing chaos magic, he wasn't, we corrected you, no hard feelings
[04:51.58] <ShadowRain> like, repeatedly
[04:52.05] <WayfaringMan> I'm pretty good, I just am constantly arguing things without understand the argument and also being disrespectful.  How's you Turbo?
[04:52.09] <Rayn> He kept saying I practiced chaos magic, lol
[04:52.13] <ShadowRain> ok? so how is that insulting :P
[04:52.16] <Asrah> No i did not. I said other people have defined it as such when explaining the things he explained
[04:52.23] <Turbo> It's been better. On a bit of a low streak
[04:52.24] <ShadowRain> WayfaringMan: rofl nice
[04:52.30] <Rayn> Asrah, to make you feel better, when I was a teenager I practiced it.
[04:52.32] <Asrah> They have used that term, for those described actions
[04:52.35] <Lionell> <Asrah> Then tell the channel what you practice
[04:52.41] <Lionell> you never asked
[04:52.44] <Rayn> Then I realized it was not for me.
[04:52.47] <Asrah> That =/= me calling him a chaos mage. Get some damn mental dexterity
[04:52.49] <WayfaringMan> Well, you must be if you're finding yourself back around these parts again.
[04:53.09] <Turbo> Ahah, isn't that the truth. Some things never change
[04:53.12] <Lionell> Asrah, yes, and we said that what he did was not chaos magic at all, and the definition of the people you know is simply misinformed
[04:53.14] <WayfaringMan> Lmao Asrah buy a mirror and just look at yourself for a bit.
[04:53.16] <Asrah> I was trying to flesh out the context in which i used the term, and suddenly SR jumped in
[04:53.27] <Asrah> WFM, why dont you actually learn psionics first?
[04:53.51] <WayfaringMan> Nah I have better things to do with my time.
[04:53.52] <Asrah> As for SR, do you think the stuff you practice is in some way amazing or something?
[04:54.05] <WayfaringMan> Not nearly as amazing as you, Asrah.
[04:54.12] <Asrah> Nothing i can do is " amazing"
[04:54.20] <Rayn> Anywho, you practice Enochian magic, Lionell?
[04:54.22] <Asrah> See, you keep putting that in my mouth yet ive never said it, and always deny it
[04:54.24] <WayfaringMan> You constantly amaze me.
[04:54.28] <Rayn> You are familiar with the Sigil of Ameth?
[04:54.45] <WayfaringMan> It's also the first time I've used the term referring to you so I'm not sure how I "keep" putting it in your mouth.
[04:54.46] <Rayn> I know Enochian magic, too.
[04:54.55] <WayfaringMan> Get some damn mental dexterity!!!!
[04:54.58] <Asrah> Funny thing, the ONLY two likely to have any significant ability in here without even mentioning the problem folks is Nevyn and Rainsong
[04:54.59] <Rayn> You are familiar with how you derive the names of angels from tablets, right?
[04:55.13] <WayfaringMan> Okay Asrah that is neat
[04:55.17] <Asrah> Im part of the problem cause i keep engaging the retards
[04:55.23] <Lionell> Rayn, no, not really. Enochian has usually scared me. In two days I'm going to be doing some chaos ritual using enochian language, and I'll see how that goes, and if it goes well I might dive into the calls themselves
[04:55.24] <WayfaringMan> Your bad and wrong opinions are noted by everyone. =]
[04:55.34] <Turbo> lol Wm. These parts haven't changed one bit
[04:55.38] <Asrah> Then as you tell me, change how you act
[04:55.41] <Asrah> Ofc not turbo
[04:55.48] <Rayn> Lionell, the magic system is actually highly algorithmic.
[04:55.55] <WayfaringMan> It really was much nicer a few weeks ago Turbo, Asrah came back in in hardcore 2003 mode.
[04:56.02] <Asrah> WFM and SR sit there and correct everyone over everything but cant actually understand the original point
[04:56.04] <Rayn> So, I actually think it might fit you perfectly...
[04:56.07] <Lionell> yeah, it was designed by the royal cryptographer basically
[04:56.18] <Asrah> Its so much easier for them to put words in my mouth then tell me im wrong based on the strawman than actually argue based on merit
[04:56.29] <Lionell> as said, I have looked into it, and am now very tentatively trying it out
[04:56.30] <Asrah> See, continued jabs
[04:56.30] <Rayn> Lionell, I draw from the spirit of a design like that. The sigil of ameth is a 7 by 7 matrix iirc.
[04:56.50] <Asrah> Lionell, what i practice is kinda irrelevant to discussion of method
[04:57.23] <WayfaringMan> Not a jab, just a statement of fact.  But here we are.  Anyhow Turbo what's the craic these days?
[04:57.25] <Asrah> Its so amazing that WFM and SR are so focused on me having said i have more practice in than they do. Its a pity they cant debate in proper terms
[04:57.26] <Rayn> I liked the construction of the system, so I borrowed the ontological structure, but I don't care for the cosmology. Or angels.
[04:57.32] <Asrah> No its a jab, theres no fact about that
[04:57.43] <Asrah> You werent even in the OEC's in 2003
[04:58.00] <Lionell> Asrah, I mean, if you complain that we never said that we do things other than psionics....why? You never asked us to describe all that we did, and it would be futile to all do so at once anyway
[04:58.07] <ShadowRain> ...lmao Asrah told WM to learn psionics XD
[04:58.12] <Asrah> Lionell, im trying to leave my own abilities out of this
[04:58.16] <Asrah> BEcause he doesnt know them
[04:58.21] <ShadowRain> I look away for 5min and that happens XD
[04:58.23] <Lionell> I never mentioned your abilities
[04:58.28] <Lionell> they are completely irrelevant to what I said
[04:58.32] <WayfaringMan> lmao Asrah I love it, I only wish I wasn't around in 2003.
[04:58.37] <Turbo> To make a long story short, women. Women are the problem.
[04:58.47] <Asrah> WFM, you are irrelevant until you actually gain some sort of ability :P
[04:58.59] <Turbo> LOL
[04:59.00] <Asrah> Its amusing what i find out taking cursory glances around this crowd
[04:59.03] <Lionell> Rayn, I mostly like the language, created languages like that make for some very powerful spells in my experience
[04:59.11] <Turbo> Asrah, be careful what you wish for :P
[04:59.17] <Asrah> Turbo, wouldnt matter regardless
[04:59.18] <Lionell> chaotes have something similar called ouranian barbaric
[04:59.23] <WayfaringMan> Asrah: okay that's neat but your opinions are really bad hun and you're a boring Internet toughguy so *shrug*
[04:59.27] <Lionell> which I've already used successfully many times
[04:59.28] <Asrah> Blah blah blah
[04:59.44] <Lionell> and I want to see if enochian as a language can do that too, as its reputation says
[04:59.46] <Asrah> Im the internet tough guy? Yall are the ones that do stupid shit, i mirror it, then youre dumb enough to think thats how i am
[05:00.18] <WayfaringMan> You keep saying that, but yet we've only ever seen you act like a clown.  Sorry if the only conclusion we can draw is "Asrah is a clown."
[05:00.18] <Asrah> The amount of times people have gone from "asrah is wrong" to "asrah is stupid" in the same fucking sentence is astounding for a place with so many people who claim to have these abilities
[05:00.26] <Asrah> I never have lawl
[05:00.28] <WayfaringMan> But you're both, pretty often.
[05:00.31] <Asrah> Nope
[05:00.34] <Asrah> Prove it
[05:00.34] <WayfaringMan> Kay
[05:00.38] <Lionell> (link to the ouranian: ＋http://chaosmagick.org/barbdict/， )
[05:00.41] <Asrah> Bring neutral, unbiased parties in here
[05:00.47] <Asrah> Show unrelated people the logs
[05:00.51] <WayfaringMan> Anyhow, yes, women are pretty much a thing that causes problems often Turbo.
[05:00.54] <Lionell> Asrah, do I count?
[05:01.01] <Asrah> Ok, so when asked for evidence he changes the subject
[05:01.19] <WayfaringMan> Asrah, I have, and a friend of a friend at DU says they've never heard it called "UOD" in their life, so I mean, there's that.
[05:01.41] <Asrah> Except the nametag saying "university of denver" on the front, and me working 6-10 hours days while in school
[05:01.48] <Asrah> So please, go fuck yourself. you cant make a point if you try ...
[05:01.58] <WayfaringMan> Asrah, I'm talking to an old friend, could you just go to your room or something?
[05:02.16] <Asrah> If youre gonna have a conversation you only want 1 on 1, take it to PMs
[05:02.52] <Asrah> Inb4 vehement disagreement which only proves more how idiotic he is?
[05:02.54] <WayfaringMan> Nah, gonna do it here.
[05:02.57] <Asrah> YEP
[05:03.02] <Asrah> So then dont complain
[05:03.11] <WayfaringMan> Anyhow, Turbo, long story or short story?
[05:03.12] <ShadowRain> Asrah: you don't get to show up in a channel and tell everyone else how things work in the channel, not only is it rude, it's just... not going to fly
[05:03.39] <Asrah> Umm, you dont get to show up here, and tell one of the longest standing members of the OEC's they are ignorant of your special snowflake abilities
[05:04.03] <Lionell> this isn't the OEC
[05:04.06] <ShadowRain> lol. *and* if you don't like how things are done in this channel, feel free to leave.
[05:04.08] * Rayn (~Rayn@OWIRCN-a9dab91a.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[05:04.11] <Asrah> Im sure your "invocation" is such an outstanding ability, its far beyond comprehension of someone with more than 15 years experiene working with energy work and magic with his vessel
[05:04.22] * Rayn (~Rayn@OWIRCN-a9dab91a.ga.comcast.net) has joined channel #psc_annex
[05:04.23] <Asrah> Lol fall back behind your friends more kid
[05:04.56] <Asrah> Now, SR, you might wanna change your tone. Look how youre reacting to what im saying, which is a mirror of how you approached me
[05:04.56] <Lionell> Asrah, do I count as a neutral third party?
[05:05.05] <ShadowRain> Asrah: doesn't matter if it's outstanding or not :P my experience was similar to rayn's, not yours, so his advice was more useful. simply that.
[05:05.13] <Asrah> Try being correct, and id listen. telling me im wrong, then insulting me cause i dont accept your word isnt doing anything
[05:05.14] <ShadowRain> hehe
[05:05.25] <Asrah> If you think im wrong, explain yourself, and provide an outside source
[05:05.39] <Turbo> Sorry WM, give me a minute
[05:05.45] <Asrah> I cannot be expected to take your word that im wrong because you think yourself smarter
[05:05.58] <ShadowRain> *shrugs* if you'd been reasonable and actually listened I would've been more than happy to explain and sort out miscommunications. ask literally anyone in the oec who's interacted with me
[05:06.06] <Rayn> Lionell, I tend to count Enochian magic as one of those for scrying purposes magical paths.
[05:06.12] <Asrah> SR, the conversation was between Lionell, rayn and i. you inserted yourself based on your misinterpretation and insutled someone
[05:06.30] <Asrah> Yet instead of asking what i actually meant, you insulted my intelligence cause you assumed you knew my meanings
[05:06.32] <Asrah> Fuck off
[05:06.56] <Lionell> <Asrah> I cannot be expected to take your word that im wrong because you think yourself smarter
[05:06.59] <Asrah> Ive been plenty reasonable, and have only been hostile after called stupid, or insulted
[05:07.10] * Rayn (~Rayn@OWIRCN-a9dab91a.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[05:07.26] <WayfaringMan> lol
[05:07.32] <Asrah> If youre so put off by the hostility, stop the insults, stop calling me stupid or any names. If you have a disagreement, voice the content, dont name call
[05:07.35] <Lionell> you could consider it, though. How many people here have now told you that you're showing yourself as incredibly flammable and aggressive?
[05:08.01] <ShadowRain> Asrah: no ^.^
[05:08.09] <Lionell> Rayn2_, is this your current client
[05:08.14] <Asrah> Because i certainly feel like such after being laughed at and called stupid by someone who entered a conversation, and stated a misinterpretation, after i explained my meaning 4 times
[05:08.26] <Asrah> SR had NO excuse for misinterpreting, let along putting her foot in her mouth there
[05:09.10] <Asrah> Rayn and i disagreed earlier, the conversation stayed on track. there was no hostility? Whys that i wonder? Rayn didnt take jabs, he explained himself
[05:09.38] <ShadowRain> he explained and you refused to listen for an incredible amount of time :P
[05:09.40] <Lionell> she did so in PM though, which means that even if she was calling you stupid you would have lost no reputation at all had you not brought it into the chat
[05:09.58] <Asrah> I was reasonable all day, and y et you still mouthed off at the first sign of disagreement
[05:10.09] <Asrah> No you are beyond stupid you know that?
[05:10.11] <ShadowRain> Lionell: he didn't actually pm me till after that convo
[05:10.12] <Turbo> WM - short. I nab this perfect girl, samei nterests, is fun to be around, but she doens't believe in the asexual spectrum and harasses me about it, and she's 400% clingy. Like.. if I dont look her her long enough she gets upset and starts to think that I don't want her around.
[05:10.15] <Asrah> "I am not correcting you"
[05:10.32] <Lionell> now you brought it in the main chat and this has become yet another fight that stars you. This is the fucking 5th such discussion in what, a week?
[05:10.46] <Asrah> I did a bit after the conversation. I was deciding if i wanted to deal with the potential stupid shit in response to my question
[05:11.09] <WayfaringMan> Ah, a classic kind of crazy.
[05:11.12] <Asrah> I asked her politely to ask me what i mean instead of insulting me, she went on a tirade about how im so stupid, and dont understand Rayns abilities
[05:11.24] <ShadowRain> lol
[05:11.29] <Lionell> then tell her she's a bitch in PM if you wish to
[05:11.32] <Asrah> Lionell, notice its always the same few people? Notice its not you?
[05:11.33] <Turbo> Muchly - There's very little in the way of these sorts of shenanigans that show up anymore
[05:11.33] <Lionell> but keep PM things in PM
[05:11.35] <ShadowRain> he did :P
[05:11.37] <Asrah> Notice its not Turbo?
[05:12.00] <Asrah> Its not Icra, or Nevyn, or Alusa, or Curfront, or even Ceah anymore
[05:12.10] <ShadowRain> but he's totally spinning how the pm went :P in any case. I've interrupted y'alls discussion enough :P I'm done
[05:12.11] * KiraMoravvi (~AndChat4827@OWIRCN-959a7c43.threembb.co.uk) has joined channel #psc_annex
[05:12.16] <Turbo> What now?
[05:12.35] <WayfaringMan> Oh I was talking about your girl problems.
[05:12.46] <Asrah> Its the same few people who circle jerk with each other, and the elephant in the room who questions them is called stupid at every turn. No matter how many hours i go with reasonable discourse with 0 hostility, one of those 3 inevitably starts shit
[05:12.47] <Turbo> Yeah - she's a little loopy
[05:12.53] <Rayn2_> Lionell I'm on this name
[05:12.54] <Asrah> Im gonna pastebin the logs, fuck you
[05:12.57] <Turbo> I'm try ing to train her to not be so clingy
[05:13.04] <WayfaringMan> Well, you should've figured that from being having the same kind of interests and so on.  :v
[05:13.27] * You have joined #psc_annex
[05:13.27] Topic: The practice and teaching channel for the Psionic Social Club.
[05:13.27] Channel Topic Set by: Rainsong on 4:32 PM 8/20/2016
[05:13.32] Channel modes for #psc_annex are :+nt
[05:13.32] Channel Created on: 6:29 AM 5/22/2015
[05:13.35] <Turbo> Some people get too worked up over internet things~ Can't you all be friends?
[05:13.38] <Lionell> Asrah, yes? Because I'm really careful with people and I approach all these debates with the intent to find out what people mean, and only at the end if it happens to be simple enough do I try to correct them. You are still managing to pick a fight with anyone that even looks in your direction without gloves
[05:14.02] <Icra> Turbo: sounds like therapy is in order. Buy a fainting couch, have her lay on it, and ask her about her relationship with her father.
[05:14.04] <Lionell> *most, not all. This for instance not.
[05:14.11] <Turbo> hah
[05:14.18] <Turbo> That is not the way I should approach it
[05:14.29] <Asrah> [04:25.26] <Asrah> Im gonna give you a polite hint here. Youre not gonna get anywhere with the whole "you dont know what  youre talking about" thing. Missing my point, and then accusing me of some sort of inadequecy isnt respectful, and you arent making the point you think you are. Before correcting me from now on, please ask me what i mean. 2-3 times now youve corrected me for no reason, when youve just misinterpreted
[05:14.39] <Asrah> [04:25.26] <Asrah> Im gonna give you a polite hint here. Youre not gonna get anywhere with the whole "you dont know what  youre talking about" thing. Missing my point, and then accusing me of some sort of inadequecy isnt respectful, and you arent making the point you think you are. Before correcting me from now on, please ask me what i mean. 2-3 times now youve corrected me for no reason, when youve just misinterpreted
[05:14.41] <Asrah> fuck
[05:14.43] <WayfaringMan> Maybe just become a monk.  My teacher has no problems from women.  :v
[05:14.47] <Rayn2_> Is it wrong to do a banishing spell in this situation?
[05:14.50] <Asrah> [04:39.43] <ShadowRain> lol, see the thing is, you *don't* know what you're talking about, won't listen, and that you think you're in any position to give "hints" or make threats is pretty amusing.
[05:15.09] <Asrah> So much for ctrl+c huh windows
[05:15.14] <Turbo> But I don't want to live in seclusion and have rigurous discipline :P
[05:15.20] <Lionell> yes, you're free to think that ShadowRain is insulting in PM
[05:15.29] <Lionell> you're also free to /ignore all the people that are insulting
[05:15.34] <Lionell> and that would probably be for the best
[05:15.42] <Asrah> ＋http://pastebin.com/Y9NA9MK1，
[05:15.46] <Asrah> Theres the whole thing
[05:16.01] <Turbo> How about you WM, life good?
[05:16.05] <WayfaringMan> Well I mean it's not total seclusion, there are other monks around, and laypeople who come to get whatever done.  I know a lot of monks so the seclusion thing isn't strictly necessary.  The discipline bit tho.
[05:16.33] <Asrah> The part that got me the most is "claiming youre intelligent when youre not" Bitch you know shit
[05:17.01] <ShadowRain> is that 4 times now or 5... I'm losing count
[05:17.07] <Asrah> Alright yeah, im done bein nice. Ive tried it, it hasnt worked ^_^ Maybe if you retards spent more time practicing instead of looking for ways to correct people over nothing, you might be capable
[05:17.08] <WayfaringMan> Everything is good here, planning to go back for another round of grad school soon.
[05:17.33] <Rayn2_> Asrah I'm really getting tired of you calling her a bitch
[05:17.36] <Asrah> But no, SR, theres nothing that you can do i havent already had immense success with :\
[05:17.42] <WayfaringMan> Maybe do a PhD this time.  Just got back from Ladakh, India a few weeks ago, was studying there in a monastery for a month.
[05:17.46] <Asrah> Rayn its 1 for every time shes called me stupid, i still have 2 more :P
[05:18.29] <ShadowRain> I don't think I've *actually* called him stupid... *ponders*
[05:18.32] <Turbo> Awesome
[05:18.44] <Asrah> LIonell, they arent going to do things with their actions. That much i know. Be it cause they draw the line there or they cant, doesnt matter.
[05:19.02] <Rayn2_> Asrah why don't you just leave?
[05:19.10] <Asrah> No
[05:19.12] <Lionell> or ignore the people that trigger you
[05:19.36] <Asrah> Im debating whether or not to take this place down like T took Psifight, HoA, etc down
[05:19.47] <Asrah> I dont see a reason for it, cause these confrontations are inherent human nature
[05:20.21] * KiraMoravvi (~AndChat4827@OWIRCN-959a7c43.threembb.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
[05:20.43] <Rayn2_> Can someone for the love of God ban him
[05:20.45] <Asrah> What i dont see, that would make my answer an immediate yes is 1) people talking about abusing their power on each other for petty reasons 2) talk of domineering other communities 3) acceptance or rejection based on acceptance of dharma. So far ive seen none of that
[05:21.02] <Asrah> No Rayn
[05:21.14] <WayfaringMan> Yeah, it's a pretty good shtick.  I hate being the guy going "welp I'm doing great sorry your life sucks" but well, I'm doing pretty good, sorry things aren't so good for others.  Just try to help out where I can.
[05:21.23] <WayfaringMan> Rayn, just block him?  It's working for me.
[05:21.30] <Asrah> Why dont you, SR, and WFM actually attempt reasonable discussion instead of saying someones wrong then calling them stupid?
[05:21.43] <Rayn2_> WayfaringMan I do then everyone talks to him
[05:21.48] <Asrah> LOL yeah ive been ignored by a retard, so amused
[05:21.54] <Rayn2_> So it is like drama by proxy
[05:22.02] <Asrah> Rayn youve been rather reasonable today, thank you
[05:23.11] <WayfaringMan> Yeah, but proxy drama is about half as annoying.  You can even imagine Asrah is listening to the things other people are saying instead of just dismissing it all.
[05:23.27] <Turbo> lol
[05:23.32] <Rayn2_> WayfaringMan yea
[05:23.35] <Turbo> Don't change, guy, Don't change
[05:23.55] <WayfaringMan> Give it a try anyhow.  I blocked him, you can block him, and we'll just ask someone to post us logs if he says anything particularly hilarious.
[05:24.25] <Asrah> WFm, maybe if you could explain points reasonably and without ridiculous contradictions i wouldnt dismiss it
[05:24.46] <Asrah> Telling me how you dont do "modern magic" then talking about how your main method is "modern magic" is ridiculous, and i WILL dismiss that
[05:25.22] <Asrah> Turbo, please tell me you dont have anything to do with these folks outside of here?
[05:25.36] <Rayn2_> WayfaringMan already done lol
[05:25.53] <WayfaringMan> See how much nicer it is now?
[05:25.58] <Asrah> Yep thats it
[05:26.09] <Turbo> I wish I had the pleasure to meet Wm in person
[05:26.17] <Asrah> So you could break him in half?
[05:26.18] <Rayn2_> Lionell I'll post pics of my old system for you later
[05:26.22] <Asrah> Maybe teach him respect?
[05:26.29] <Turbo> LOL
[05:26.35] <WayfaringMan> Anyhow Turbo I guess it's better you came back now rather than a few weeks ago. It's way more like "home" with all. . . this, I guess.
[05:26.38] <Turbo> To cause chaos and take over and create a coup
[05:26.42] <Asrah> I know he tries to troll but he fails at it so hard. He expects me to be angry but i just explain how i know what hes doing
[05:27.02] <Turbo> ha
[05:27.07] <Asrah> Anyways, yeah, shutting down the folks of the channel
[05:27.08] <Rayn2_> I don't recall Turbo
[05:27.24] <Rayn2_> Lionell just don't use ig
[05:27.24] <Asrah> Ive had quite enough of this bullshit, and no, no more arrogant, retarded OEC's
[05:27.26] <Rayn2_> It
[05:28.39] * You have joined #psc_annex
[05:28.39] Topic: The practice and teaching channel for the Psionic Social Club.
[05:28.39] Channel Topic Set by: Rainsong on 4:32 PM 8/20/2016
[05:28.43] Channel modes for #psc_annex are :+nt
[05:28.43] Channel Created on: 6:29 AM 5/22/2015
[05:28.46] <WayfaringMan> This is _very_ much like home then, lmao
[05:28.58] <Asrah> Take that back, just SR, WFM, and Rayn. Rest of yall havent done anything
[05:29.28] <Asrah> Turbo, the issue is, they do silly stuff, i mirror it to show them how silly it is. The situation ends up rebounding all over the place and turns into this. Whereas im always aware of this, they arent
[05:29.41] <Turbo> Until she sniped me, of course
[05:38.01] * You have joined #psc_annex
[05:38.01] Topic: The practice and teaching channel for the Psionic Social Club.
[05:38.01] Channel Topic Set by: Rainsong on 4:32 PM 8/20/2016
[05:38.01] Channel modes for #psc_annex are :+nt
[05:38.01] Channel Created on: 6:29 AM 5/22/2015
[05:38.21] <Turbo> Do you still talk to the other woman in our live?
[05:38.22] <Turbo> life*
[05:38.47] <WayfaringMan> So many women in our lives, Rainsong, or Ally?
[05:39.05] <Turbo> I don't rememnber which one Ally is - Talking about June
[05:39.17] <WayfaringMan> June. . . Intrepid?
[05:39.25] <Turbo> Yeah
[05:40.06] <Asrah> Oh intrepid
[05:40.53] <WayfaringMan> I don't.  I heard she was around some time or another fairly lately though.  I'm not super super regular here.  I pop in for a few days at a time every few weeks or so, and often forget the client is open.
[05:41.11] <ShadowRain> <.<
[05:41.19] <ShadowRain> She goes by Amaranthh now, btw.
[05:41.26] <WayfaringMan> Oh right right!
[05:41.32] <WayfaringMan> Oh I did talk to her but she didn't recognize me.
[05:41.32] <Turbo> I know this~
[05:41.36] <Turbo> haha
[05:41.47] <Turbo> The last time I spoke to her, she wanted me to go down there to visit