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Muu's discussions with UM Director

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Aug 17th, 2012
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  1. Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 13:54:20 +0100
  2. Subject: Re: NEO Magazine and Forum
  3.  
  4. Hi UM Director,
  5.  
  6. I'm a bit concerned that you are asking me if *** has reinstated all the
  7. moderators. I'm also concerned that *** has quite obviously abandoned the
  8. NEO forum.
  9.  
  10. If you let things slip back to how they were you will be slowly strangling
  11. the life out of your own forum and costing yourself money. It's up to you
  12. to keep communication with your forum staff open, not the other way around
  13. and right now there is no direct communication from anyone at UM to the
  14. staff on the forum.
  15.  
  16. Did *** explain to you that the way the forum has been set up requires the
  17. forum staff (Admins) to manually check each signup and that if no-one does
  18. that then there will be no new members? From what I saw *** didn't bother
  19. to process that moderation queue at all after he took over and now you are
  20. relying on the goodwill of Manning and kuro_neko for that again.
  21.  
  22. At the moment you aren't getting any active help from anyone. ***'s
  23. actions and the muddled way in which he gave partial Admin rights back to
  24. Manning and kuro_neko didn't go down well. As things stand, If they
  25. decided to walk off and abandon the forum out of despair for being treated
  26. so badly you would be unlikely to find out about it until far too late.
  27. You need to get your lines of communication open to them on the forum and
  28. keep them open. As has been proven over recent weeks you cannot rely on
  29. *** for that.
  30.  
  31. Despite all that, you aren't far off unlocking all the resources that are
  32. available to you. We all want to help NEO be a good part of the
  33. community. We are just waiting on seeing the public proof of you doing the
  34. right thing by your customers.
  35.  
  36.  
  37.  
  38. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:07 PM, UM Director
  39. <UM Director>wrote:
  40.  
  41. > Hi Muu,
  42. >
  43. > Been catching up on work so haven't moved this forward. Next week, I'll
  44. > start contacting NEO advertisers about their stock.
  45. >
  46. > Has *** reinstated all the moderators?
  47. >
  48. > Sent from my iPhone
  49. >
  50. > On 25 Jul 2012, at 01:59 PM, Muu <muupuklip> wrote:
  51. >
  52. > Hi UM Director,
  53. >
  54. > Hope you had a lovely holiday.
  55. >
  56. > How are things progressing?
  57. >
  58. > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 4:50 PM, UM Director <UM Director> > wrote:
  59. >
  60. >> hi Muu,
  61. >>
  62. >> just to let you know, i'm away on holiday now for two weeks. UM Director
  63. >>
  64. >>
  65. >> On 12 Jun 2012, at 17:10, Muu wrote:
  66. >>
  67. >> Hi UM Director,
  68. >>
  69. >> In the last email I mentioned that you have a specific problem with Tokyo
  70. >> Toys. Part of that problem is that UM and the MCM Expo have had a long
  71. >> standing relationship with Tokyo Toys which legitimate retailers may have
  72. >> taken to be a deliberate knowing and cosy collaboration which has favoured
  73. >> Tokyo Toys and their open selling of counterfeit goods. In other words,
  74. >> they may have seen you as taking part in 'unfair competition'. Some
  75. >> retailers have hinted as much in posts on the NEO forum in the past.
  76. >>
  77. >> I mention this because the solution for UM/NEO getting the knowledge
  78. >> about counterfeit goods lies with the legitimate retailers that are
  79. >> genuinely serving the community. They are the best source for information
  80. >> about which goods are fake or unlicensed and which are legitimate. It
  81. >> would be a very good idea for UM to star opening dialogue with as many
  82. >> retailers of anime/manga/'Asian culture' related goods as possible to
  83. >> gather information about counterfeit goods and as a means of beginning to
  84. >> build up mutually rewarding business (advertising) relationships.
  85. >>
  86. >> There are a couple of retailers that should be at the top of the list to
  87. >> begin discussions about fakes and unlicensed goods:
  88. >>
  89. >> Tokyo15 url
  90. >>
  91. >> Tokyo15 have had a presence on the NEO forum in the past. They have been
  92. >> invaluable in bringing the problem of counterfeit goods to light.
  93. >>
  94. >> eyeonasia url
  95. >>
  96. >> You already have a relationship with Eye on Asia. It would be a good
  97. >> idea to make the best use of it.
  98. >>
  99. >> You ultimately need to get to the position where you have contact with a
  100. >> broad range of retailers who will openly blow the whistle to you about
  101. >> their competitors selling counterfeit goods. That way you can weed out the
  102. >> bad apples and save NEO from being the target of legitimate protest and
  103. >> criticism in future.
  104. >>
  105. >> It would also be a good idea to open an honest and straight dialogue with
  106. >> your customers on the NEO forum about this. Start a thread to clear the
  107. >> air and be sure to make it understood that you won't be trying to ban
  108. >> anyone for telling you things you might not like to hear. You need to
  109. >> (re)gain trust and show that you are willing to listen and act responsibly
  110. >> when your customers complain to you about advertising that features
  111. >> counterfeits. Being straight and open is the first step.
  112. >>
  113. >> Regards,
  114. >>
  115. >> Muu
  116. >>
  117. >> On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 5:56 PM, UM Director <
  118. >> UM Director> wrote:
  119. >>
  120. >>> hi Muu,
  121. >>>
  122. >>> did you receive my last email? would like to move forward on this. can
  123. >>> you confirm tokyo toys is the only advertiser you'd like removed from our
  124. >>> advertising schedule?
  125. >>>
  126. >>> thanks UM Director
  127. >>>
  128. >>> Begin forwarded message:
  129. >>>
  130. >>> *From: *UM Director <UM Director>
  131. >>> *Subject: **Re: NEO Magazine and Forum*
  132. >>> *Date: *6 June 2012 12:01:03 GMT+01:00
  133. >>> *To: *Muu <muupuklip>
  134. >>>
  135. >>> hi Muu,
  136. >>>
  137. >>> looking at our AD contracts, and how long we are signed into them. Is
  138. >>> Tokyo Toys the only company that promotes unofficial products in NEO?
  139. >>>
  140. >>>
  141. >>>
  142. >>>
  143. >>> On 31 May 2012, at 12:54, Muu wrote:
  144. >>>
  145. >>> Hi UM Director,
  146. >>>
  147. >>> Didn't get an email from you yesterday, and it looks like *** made a
  148. >>> mess of things and then abandoned the NEO forum about a week ago. Is there
  149. >>> a problem?
  150. >>>
  151. >>> Muu
  152. >>>
  153. >>> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 1:08 PM, UM Director <
  154. >>> UM Director> wrote:
  155. >>>
  156. >>>> hi Muu,
  157. >>>>
  158. >>>> i'm off to mcm expo with NEO today, back sunday eve. i'm then gonna
  159. >>>> take a couple of days off. so i'll email you on wednesday.
  160. >>>>
  161. >>>> UM Director
  162. >>>>
  163. >>>>
  164. >>>> On 21 May 2012, at 16:03, Muu wrote:
  165. >>>>
  166. >>>> Hi UM Director,
  167. >>>>
  168. >>>> Yes, absolutely. NEO and its online presence has always had tremendous
  169. >>>> potential to be more or less the heart of the 'Asian culture' community in
  170. >>>> the UK. That's what all of us want. We want you to be successful and be
  171. >>>> on good terms with the community. Whatever rough edges there may have been
  172. >>>> up until now can be smoothed off easily enough. Myself, Manning, and
  173. >>>> kuro_neko have no interest in conflict, we want peace and quiet and a
  174. >>>> strong and healthy forum. With robust and direct channels of communication
  175. >>>> now open to both *** and yourself there is no reason for any
  176. >>>> 'unconventional' means of drawing your attention to any problems in future.
  177. >>>>
  178. >>>> Muu
  179. >>>>
  180. >>>> On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 7:49 PM, UM Director <
  181. >>>> UM Director> wrote:
  182. >>>>
  183. >>>>> hi Muu,
  184. >>>>>
  185. >>>>> imagine i've banned all advertising in NEO that contains counterfeit
  186. >>>>> goods, and released an official press release stating our support for
  187. >>>>> official merchandise only. Could you, *** and the mods work happily
  188. >>>>> together to produce a happy, vibrant NEO forum? Could we work to promote
  189. >>>>> NEO on the forum in a positive way and ensure that any future issues were
  190. >>>>> dealt with correctly? And avoid a continuous stream of posts slating NEO
  191. >>>>> and its staff.
  192. >>>>>
  193. >>>>> UM Director
  194. >>>>>
  195. >>>>>
  196. >>>>>
  197. >>>>>
  198. >>>>> On 18 May 2012, at 19:41, Muu wrote:
  199. >>>>>
  200. >>>>> Sure, that's fine.
  201. >>>>>
  202. >>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 7:48 PM, UM Director <
  203. >>>>> UM Director> wrote:
  204. >>>>>
  205. >>>>>> hi Muu,
  206. >>>>>>
  207. >>>>>> *** has asked me to ask you if it's ok for him to email you a few
  208. >>>>>> questions. this is separate from the discussions we are having.
  209. >>>>>>
  210. >>>>>> UM Director
  211. >>>>>>
  212. >>>>>> On 18 May 2012, at 17:46, UM Director wrote:
  213. >>>>>>
  214. >>>>>> hi Muu,
  215. >>>>>>
  216. >>>>>> I've already started to investigate the issue of NEO accepting
  217. >>>>>> adverts that contain counterfeit goods. i'll update you on my
  218. >>>>>> thoughts/action when i have a clearer picture, next week.
  219. >>>>>>
  220. >>>>>> i'll pass the message on to ***.
  221. >>>>>>
  222. >>>>>> sorry for short reply, i have staff off on holiday so covering their
  223. >>>>>> work and it's deadline day for 360 gamer.
  224. >>>>>>
  225. >>>>>> have a good weekend. keep me updated please.
  226. >>>>>>
  227. >>>>>> thanks for your help.
  228. >>>>>>
  229. >>>>>> UM Director
  230. >>>>>>
  231. >>>>>>
  232. >>>>>>
  233. >>>>>> On 18 May 2012, at 13:54, Muu wrote:
  234. >>>>>>
  235. >>>>>> Hi,
  236. >>>>>>
  237. >>>>>> I have been discussing the situation with both kuro_neko and Manning,
  238. >>>>>> and have started contacting others from the forum and wider community to
  239. >>>>>> get their views. The process will take some time, not least because
  240. >>>>>> everyone communicates over multiple platforms. But there are a few things
  241. >>>>>> that can be said now.
  242. >>>>>>
  243. >>>>>> Firstly, everyone needs to know where UM are going to stand on the
  244. >>>>>> issue of counterfeit goods and taking adverts from shops that sell them.
  245. >>>>>> If that doesn't get sorted then nothing else will matter. Everyone I have
  246. >>>>>> talked to so far would welcome clear and frank messages from UM, if not in
  247. >>>>>> public then through some form of private means. We all know that NEO needs
  248. >>>>>> advertising revenue, and no-one expects instant marvels, but no-one will be
  249. >>>>>> satisfied with vague comments or attempts to bury heads in the sand and
  250. >>>>>> hope that everything will go away.
  251. >>>>>>
  252. >>>>>> Secondly, the actions of *** ****** on the forum the last few days
  253. >>>>>> have only really been useful in highlighting the problems that there have
  254. >>>>>> been with (mis)communication or the lack of any communication at all. It
  255. >>>>>> would be helpful if he stopped posting (for now) as at least some of the
  256. >>>>>> things he has said in his posts and PMs, along with some of the things he
  257. >>>>>> has done around the forum in the last few days have been unhelpful to
  258. >>>>>> everyone.
  259. >>>>>>
  260. >>>>>> Lastly, everyone involved in the discussions so far welcomes the fact
  261. >>>>>> that you want to talk and resolve matters. It has been taken as a positive
  262. >>>>>> signal.
  263. >>>>>>
  264. >>>>>> Muu
  265. >>>>>>
  266. >>>>>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 3:38 PM, UM Director <
  267. >>>>>> UM Director> wrote:
  268. >>>>>>
  269. >>>>>>> thanks Muu
  270. >>>>>>>
  271. >>>>>>> On 16 May 2012, at 15:14, Muu wrote:
  272. >>>>>>>
  273. >>>>>>> Hi,
  274. >>>>>>>
  275. >>>>>>> Okay. I'll talk it over with a few people from the forum and get
  276. >>>>>>> back to you in a day or two with the results from the group discussion.
  277. >>>>>>> May as well get it right rather than rush at it.
  278. >>>>>>>
  279. >>>>>>> Muu
  280. >>>>>>>
  281. >>>>>>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:58 PM, UM Director <
  282. >>>>>>> UM Director> wrote:
  283. >>>>>>>
  284. >>>>>>>> hi Muu,
  285. >>>>>>>>
  286. >>>>>>>> i'd like a happy NEO forum with happy members. We're a very small
  287. >>>>>>>> company and ****** hasn't dedicated enough time to the forum. No fault of her
  288. >>>>>>>> own, producing the mag takes up all of her time. i understand respect has
  289. >>>>>>>> been lost. i'd like to hear your suggestions so we can rectify this
  290. >>>>>>>> situation.
  291. >>>>>>>>
  292. >>>>>>>> UM Director
  293. >>>>>>>>
  294. >>>>>>>>
  295. >>>>>>>> On 16 May 2012, at 13:21, Muu wrote:
  296. >>>>>>>>
  297. >>>>>>>> No. Email is fine. Ask away. You'll get straight answers.
  298. >>>>>>>>
  299. >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:08 PM, UM Director <
  300. >>>>>>>> UM Director> wrote:
  301. >>>>>>>>
  302. >>>>>>>>> hi Muu,
  303. >>>>>>>>>
  304. >>>>>>>>> would it be possible to discuss a few things over the phone. i can
  305. >>>>>>>>> call you if you have a contact number or you can call me on ***********.
  306. >>>>>>>>> thanks
  307. >>>>>>>>>
  308. >>>>>>>>>
  309. >>>>>>>>>
  310. >>>>>>>>> On 9 May 2012, at 12:09, Muu wrote:
  311. >>>>>>>>>
  312. >>>>>>>>> Hello,
  313. >>>>>>>>>
  314. >>>>>>>>> It's about time we had a chat. I am the man behind the Muu_Puklip
  315. >>>>>>>>> account on your NEO Magazine forum. I'm the one who pushed ****** ****** to
  316. >>>>>>>>> get you to make an effort to save your own forum from being overrun with
  317. >>>>>>>>> spam. You may not be aware that when ********** delivered the
  318. >>>>>>>>> vBulletin install it was in a completely unprotected state and that it was
  319. >>>>>>>>> me who set the forum up with the anti spam measures that it has now.
  320. >>>>>>>>>
  321. >>>>>>>>> You certainly don't seem to be aware that I stepped down as an
  322. >>>>>>>>> admin (I removed the admin rights myself) on the NEO forum on the 10th
  323. >>>>>>>>> February. You weren't aware of it when you had the Muu_Puklip account
  324. >>>>>>>>> banned in March and proved to everyone on the forum and elsewhere that my
  325. >>>>>>>>> comments in the post you did not like were spot on. You/****** then went on
  326. >>>>>>>>> to insult Manning and kuro_neko with the offer of a free sub to the mag.
  327. >>>>>>>>> Why do you think they have been working as admins on the NEO forum for
  328. >>>>>>>>> nothing for the last few years? It's not for a belated offer of a free sub
  329. >>>>>>>>> to a mag which they no longer have any respect for.
  330. >>>>>>>>>
  331. >>>>>>>>> Which brings me to the reason I am emailing you. You have
  332. >>>>>>>>> essentially no contact with people who can either do a lot of good or
  333. >>>>>>>>> damage to your business. You appear to be getting piss-poor information
  334. >>>>>>>>> from the people you do talk to. So I'm cutting out the middle (wo)man to
  335. >>>>>>>>> make sure you know a few things that could end up costing you a whole lot
  336. >>>>>>>>> of money.
  337. >>>>>>>>>
  338. >>>>>>>>> At the moment you have two big problems. Both of which are
  339. >>>>>>>>> probably due to you not getting good information. Firstly, you are taking
  340. >>>>>>>>> adverts in NEO from companies that sell counterfeit goods and at least part
  341. >>>>>>>>> of the community already knows it. That is damaging your reputation and
  342. >>>>>>>>> costing you money through lost sales. Secondly, your internet setup across
  343. >>>>>>>>> the board is sub par and doing damage to your reputation as well as costing
  344. >>>>>>>>> you money, and you could improve it without any cost.
  345. >>>>>>>>>
  346. >>>>>>>>> Unfortunately ****** ****** is tied up with both of those in relation
  347. >>>>>>>>> to NEO. Your internet presence for your other mags if of course someone
  348. >>>>>>>>> else's responsibility.
  349. >>>>>>>>>
  350. >>>>>>>>> I noticed that you brought *** ****** in to poke around on the NEO
  351. >>>>>>>>> forum again yesterday. That is a pretty good indication that you don't
  352. >>>>>>>>> have a grasp of some of the very simple and basic things you need to know
  353. >>>>>>>>> about your own forum. There's no respect for ****** amongst the people who
  354. >>>>>>>>> matter on the NEO forum. He damaged the code for the previous incarnation
  355. >>>>>>>>> and was never any use in fixing things. Frankly, he's no good. If you
  356. >>>>>>>>> brought him in to gather information and paid him for it, you wasted your
  357. >>>>>>>>> money. You can get all the information you need out of the forum for
  358. >>>>>>>>> nothing. If you spend a few hours reading and learning you can do
  359. >>>>>>>>> literally everything you will ever need with your own forum and save
  360. >>>>>>>>> yourselves from wasting cash in future too.
  361. >>>>>>>>>
  362. >>>>>>>>> Are you aware that ****** has been telling people on the NEO forum
  363. >>>>>>>>> that she/you have received assurances from Alozdi's lot that MyM is not a
  364. >>>>>>>>> competitor for NEO? Either ****** is the most gullible and stupid person on
  365. >>>>>>>>> the planet or she has got so used to being dishonest that she can't
  366. >>>>>>>>> distinguish when it's not a good idea to lie. Everyone with a brain in
  367. >>>>>>>>> their head knows that MyM is a direct competitor, and it doesn't do you any
  368. >>>>>>>>> good to have someone who actually *is* representing your company
  369. >>>>>>>>> testing the patience of the community like that.
  370. >>>>>>>>>
  371. >>>>>>>>> Nor has it been helpful to you that ****** hasn't been doing
  372. >>>>>>>>> anything worthwhile to get the message across to you that taking adverts
  373. >>>>>>>>> which showcase counterfeit goods in NEO is doing your business harm. I'll
  374. >>>>>>>>> make it plain to you. If the journalists and editor for NEO can't spot
  375. >>>>>>>>> obviously dodgy goods and don't treat the community with any respect when
  376. >>>>>>>>> the matter is raised then at least some people in the community will
  377. >>>>>>>>> continue to do harm to your business by drawing attention to it until you
  378. >>>>>>>>> catch on or go out of business. There is no escaping that. Turning a
  379. >>>>>>>>> blind eye to counterfeit goods for the advertising money is not an option
  380. >>>>>>>>> for you. If you want to regain trust you need to turn the other way and
  381. >>>>>>>>> start campaigning openly and properly against counterfeits. Treat the
  382. >>>>>>>>> community with respect and do the right thing and the community will
  383. >>>>>>>>> respect you for it and be helpful to you. Don't and you can expect a rough
  384. >>>>>>>>> ride for being part of the problem.
  385. >>>>>>>>>
  386. >>>>>>>>> I'll be happy to share the things I know with you and help you to
  387. >>>>>>>>> improve your internet presence at no cost if and when I see you start doing
  388. >>>>>>>>> the right things by your customers and the wider community. It's the NEO
  389. >>>>>>>>> forum users, and the wider community that I am loyal to and it is their
  390. >>>>>>>>> interests that motivate me. Much the same is true of Manning and
  391. >>>>>>>>> kuro_neko.
  392. >>>>>>>>>
  393. >>>>>>>>> I'll give you two useful pieces of information now. First, you
  394. >>>>>>>>> wasted your time banning the Muu_Puklip account. If you knew how the forum
  395. >>>>>>>>> works you would have known that it was a waste of time. You haven't even
  396. >>>>>>>>> cleaned up the mess you made by doing that. It doesn't look professional
  397. >>>>>>>>> to have your forum 'represented' by a banned account. Unban the account
  398. >>>>>>>>> and talk to me via that account and I will help and explain things about
  399. >>>>>>>>> the forum to you, or at least figure out how to clear up the mess you left.
  400. >>>>>>>>>
  401. >>>>>>>>> Secondly, take a very good look at your 360 Gamer forum. One of
  402. >>>>>>>>> your admins on there has banned more or less the whole planet to stop spam
  403. >>>>>>>>> signups. You won't get any spam, but you won't get any legit signups
  404. >>>>>>>>> either. Being greeted by a 'You have been banned' message is a sure fire
  405. >>>>>>>>> turnoff for your customers. It's costing you money and making you look
  406. >>>>>>>>> incompetent. You ought to ask why no-one who you are paying wages to has
  407. >>>>>>>>> brought that to your attention before, yet someone like me who owes you
  408. >>>>>>>>> nothing just has.
  409. >>>>>>>>>
  410. >>>>>>>>> Have a nice day,
  411. >>>>>>>>>
  412. >>>>>>>>> Muu
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