discussion

[2017-02-02 14:50:24] → owl joined (Mibbit@mib-BDD66EF7.gv.shawcable.net)
[2017-02-02 14:51:04] <hex> .bang
[2017-02-02 14:51:05] <bpdbot> (hex) There is no duck. What are you shooting at?
[2017-02-02 14:51:05] <bpdbot> ・゜゜・。。・゜ ​ ゜\​_ø< q​uack!
[2017-02-02 14:51:12] <hex> .bang
[2017-02-02 14:51:12] <bpdbot> hex you shot a duck in 6.750 seconds! You have killed 70 ducks in #bpd.
[2017-02-02 14:52:13] <owl> Hiya. I have some homework from my last therapy session and wanted to work through it with some actual people, rather than just on my own. Anyone around to chat?
[2017-02-02 14:53:11] <hex> I'd help but I'm sort of afk
[2017-02-02 14:53:22] <hex> not sure who else is around I just popped in myself
[2017-02-02 14:53:25] <owl> No worries. :)
[2017-02-02 14:54:13] <soups> i am around
[2017-02-02 14:54:33] <owl> Hola.
[2017-02-02 14:54:37] <soups> hello
[2017-02-02 14:54:51] <soups> are you new?
[2017-02-02 14:54:54] <owl> I am!
[2017-02-02 14:55:00] <soups> welcome :)
[2017-02-02 14:55:08] <owl> Googled "bpd irc" and here I am. :)
[2017-02-02 14:55:27] <soups> where you from? if your comfortable with sharing that
[2017-02-02 14:55:36] <owl> Canada.
[2017-02-02 14:56:07] <soups> cool cool, several canadians here
[2017-02-02 14:56:19] <owl> Swell.
[2017-02-02 14:56:38] <soups> whatre you wanting to work thru?
[2017-02-02 15:00:46] <owl> Right, so, my biggest struggles with respect to BPD are ones relating to dependency. When interacting with others on a social level, my self-worth, self-confidence, and stake in my own feelings/opinions drop pretty substantially. I have trouble asserting my own thoughts and opinions, and when I do, I tend to self-doubt and criticize things (1/2)
[2017-02-02 15:00:56] <owl> That I otherwise was proud of or felt strongly about.
[2017-02-02 15:02:05] <owl> I take criticism pretty poorly, too, and often shut down and retract into my own bubble after losing the confidence that I had in whatever I wanted to express.
[2017-02-02 15:02:39] — soups nods
[2017-02-02 15:02:47] <soups> i can definitely relate to that
[2017-02-02 15:03:59] <owl> And so the homework that I came up with was to really explore what it is that bothers me so much about my opinions being "wrong" or "incorrect" or "not accurate." Because we came to the conclusion through discussion that I rely on the reassurance of others that the things I believe in are right/good on level beyond my own personal belief of them.
[2017-02-02 15:04:29] <bpdbot> ・゜ ​ ゜・。。・゜゜\​_O< quac​k!
[2017-02-02 15:04:32] <soups> .bef
[2017-02-02 15:04:32] <bpdbot> (soups) The duck said no, maybe bribe it with some pizza? Ducks love pizza don't they? You can try again in 7 seconds.
[2017-02-02 15:04:41] <soups> .bef
[2017-02-02 15:04:42] <bpdbot> soups you befriended a duck in 12.794 seconds! You have made friends with 13 ducks in #bpd.
[2017-02-02 15:04:54] <owl> But... say that something I believe in is proved to be wrong, or proved to be able to be improved upon, or proven to just be subjective and valid in its own right. Why is that something to be afraid of?
[2017-02-02 15:05:21] <soups> do you have a point in time where you felt confident in your ownthoughts, opinions, and beliefs and something happened to shake that, or is it how you feel youve always been?
[2017-02-02 15:06:17] <soups> i know that thoughts and beliefs and opinioons are core parts of the identity, so when it is challenged, it can feel like your whole identity is shaken
[2017-02-02 15:06:23] <owl> It's very reliant on whether or not my thoughts/opinions are being expressed to others in a social context. I'll write an essay for a course and be absolutely giddy and proud of my content, but then share it to a friend because of how proud I am, and immediately begin to doubt whether or not it's actually "good".
[2017-02-02 15:06:42] <owl> And then this confidence is regained after the friend compliments the heck outta it.
[2017-02-02 15:06:58] <owl> Like I need confirmation that the thoughts that I feel are actually valid.
[2017-02-02 15:07:07] <soups> aye
[2017-02-02 15:07:14] <owl> And that sort of up and down thinking has been present always.
[2017-02-02 15:08:47] <owl> Also, for more context, I'm a 21-year-old, male, engineering student.
[2017-02-02 15:09:45] <TVSky> Sounds like you learned to self doubt somewhere along the way... Any critical parents growing up?
[2017-02-02 15:11:03] <owl> I'm not sure. No more than I'd expect from any parent, really.
[2017-02-02 15:11:31] <TVSky> I just ask since I think that's where I picked up that mentality myself
[2017-02-02 15:12:01] <TVSky> Also high school peer pressure made me doubt a lot of things
[2017-02-02 15:12:27] <owl> I had anger issues from as early as 5, designated 'gifted', ended up skipping a great and was always bullied very strongly in grade school. I have memories of buying these navy and yellow shoes in what must have been 4th or 5th grade, not being confident in wearing them, being picked on because of how easy a target I was, and never wearing them again.
[2017-02-02 15:12:54] <owl> I'm sure there are more examples earlier on, but that was at 8-9 years old.
[2017-02-02 15:12:57] <soups> bullying can definitely mess things up
[2017-02-02 15:13:14] <TVSky> Wow that's really similar to my early childhood, minus the shoes
[2017-02-02 15:13:15] <owl> skipping a grade, my bad.
[2017-02-02 15:13:41] <owl> Were you also misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder and take lithium for 8 years unnecessarily? :V
[2017-02-02 15:13:48] <owl> prescribed*
[2017-02-02 15:13:54] <TVSky> Nope D:
[2017-02-02 15:14:17] <owl> BPD came about in December of 2016 so this is all very new to me.
[2017-02-02 15:14:27] <owl> The diagnosis, I mean.
[2017-02-02 15:14:38] <soups> luckily its very treatable with dbt
[2017-02-02 15:14:51] <owl> I feel like I'm already making leaps and strides. :)
[2017-02-02 15:15:07] <soups> such as long as you personallymake the effort, which i dont doubt with your self reflectio
[2017-02-02 15:15:11] <soups> *reflection
[2017-02-02 15:15:24] <soups> so, doing great so far
[2017-02-02 15:15:27] <owl> Self-awareness, reflection, and introspection are skills I'm very proud of. <:
[2017-02-02 15:15:48] <owl> Thank you.
[2017-02-02 15:18:14] <hex> 🐸
[2017-02-02 15:21:04] <TVSky> Owl you hold yourself to a perfectionist standard sometimes?
[2017-02-02 15:21:51] <owl> Very much so.
[2017-02-02 15:22:19] <owl> Something that has also been present throughout my childhood.
[2017-02-02 15:22:32] <TVSky> Yeah that sounds like the pathology then imo. If you're not perfect then you find holes in everything
[2017-02-02 15:22:57] <owl> Well, sort of. I'm not entirely sure. e.g.:
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[2017-02-02 15:23:49] <TVSky> Sorry I'm busy at work: Im picking at the criticism thing
[2017-02-02 15:24:12] <owl> I used to hate writing in early grades because I thought that everything that I wrote was garbage. It used to give me terrible anxiety because I wasn't sure of it whether or not I was writing for myself, or for someone else. Now I love writing, and am confident in everything I write, up until it gets evaluated by someone else, and that's when the doubt starts
[2017-02-02 15:25:16] <owl> I feel like there's a subtle distinction there. It used to be perfectionism and never finding satisfaction in my output. Now I can find satisfaction, but only under specific conditions.
[2017-02-02 15:25:37] <owl> And it can be taken away or restored depending on the feedback I get.
[2017-02-02 15:26:21] <owl> Could I give another example with a concrete situation that happened this morning where I had a panic attack?
[2017-02-02 15:26:29] <TVSky> Hm what kind of writing are you talking about?
[2017-02-02 15:26:31] <TVSky> Sure
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[2017-02-02 15:37:28] <owl> I have trouble contacting professors about extensions/absences (despite having been granted clear accommodations through the university resource center for students with disabilities) because I construct a false narrative where I fear that I'm asking too much and that they're judging me for abusing my privileges.
[2017-02-02 15:38:08] <owl> I asked a prof for an extension because I couldn't make it to class today and he countered with more questions about when he could expect to receive my assignment submission.
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[2017-02-02 15:38:16] <soups> those sorts of things are things you justsorta gotta push thru instead of acting on the fear and feelings
[2017-02-02 15:39:09] <soups> a lot of bpd stuff is having acted on intense emotions n such, and breaking the habit of doing that
[2017-02-02 15:39:35] <lovergirl3209> hey, what's goin on ya'll
[2017-02-02 15:39:49] <TVSky> AYO LG IN DA HOUSE
[2017-02-02 15:39:55] <soups> yoo lg
[2017-02-02 15:40:02] <lovergirl3209> yooo waddupp
[2017-02-02 15:40:14] <soups> o shit its dat lg
[2017-02-02 15:41:07] <lovergirl3209> https://media.giphy.com/media/YTbZzCkRQCEJa/giphy.gif
[2017-02-02 15:41:12] <TVSky> Hm what did you tell the professor when he asked about a set goal?
[2017-02-02 15:41:24] <owl> I generally try to understand why I act the way I act, and the underlying reasons for my behavior, rather than just going "The way I act now results in these undesirable effects, and I could act in another way to get more desirable results, so lets brute force it without understanding why"
[2017-02-02 15:41:46] <owl> Also, the interaction ended positively, so let me share the conversation.
[2017-02-02 15:42:12] <TVSky> Sounds like you're on the right track in deconstructing things tbh
[2017-02-02 15:42:39] <TVSky> Oftentimes knowledge of behavior doesn't make it any easier :(
[2017-02-02 15:43:22] <bpdbot> ・゜゜・。。 ​ ・゜゜\_ó​< qu​ack!
[2017-02-02 15:43:25] <soups> .bef
[2017-02-02 15:43:25] <bpdbot> (soups) Who knew ducks could be so picky? You can try again in 7 seconds.
[2017-02-02 15:43:31] <soups> .bef
[2017-02-02 15:43:34] <soups> .bef
[2017-02-02 15:43:34] <bpdbot> soups you befriended a duck in 11.667 seconds! You have made friends with 14 ducks in #bpd.
[2017-02-02 15:43:35] <lovergirl3209> .bang
[2017-02-02 15:43:35] <bpdbot> (lovergirl3209) There is no duck. What are you shooting at?
[2017-02-02 15:43:39] <lovergirl3209> lol
[2017-02-02 15:44:20] <owl> http://puu.sh/tLChk/969f7aa383.png
[2017-02-02 15:45:32] <soups> looks pretty giood
[2017-02-02 15:45:34] <soups> *good
[2017-02-02 15:45:47] <owl> It was at the "When am I going to get it then?" message where I panicked. I had no idea how to answer that question and the doubt really overwhelmed me. Interpretations of his tone, not being sure if my requests were reasonable, unsure of whether or not I should just pick a time... if the prof is waiting on a submission, he can't release the solutions.
[2017-02-02 15:45:54] <owl> So I didn't want to make him wait on my submission.
[2017-02-02 15:46:15] <owl> The response looked good but it was really, really hard to come to that. I just sat there for a good 15 minutes with my head in my hands.
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[2017-02-02 15:47:05] <owl> I ended up rushing through the assignment and not giving myself enough time because I picked a time that would have been reasonable for someone who wasn't dealing with mental illness. 11:20 is the deadline for assignments for everyone.
[2017-02-02 15:47:23] <owl> I honestly should have said 12:00pm or 1:00pm.
[2017-02-02 15:47:36] <owl> But I didn't want to ask too much and it ended up hurting me in the long run.
[2017-02-02 15:48:15] <TVSky> Hm he did sound kind of stand off-ish. But he was likely coming at it from a 'oh another exception in my large stack of papers' kind of way
[2017-02-02 15:50:29] <TVSky> I relate to how you reacted though. Kinda like the spotlight effect of 'damn I messed up and now I have nowhere to hide'
[2017-02-02 15:51:51] <owl> Yeah. That hits me a ton.
[2017-02-02 15:52:08] <owl> Especially when the 'messed up' part is often almost entirely a perceived thing.
[2017-02-02 15:52:29] <owl> Alarms go off more frequently than others for way more minor things.
[2017-02-02 15:52:33] <TVSky> Yeah that stuff is raw emotion that overrides all logic
[2017-02-02 15:53:10] <owl> So, it's less about understanding the logic and more about realizing that the logic in and of itself is faulty because of the raw emotion bit.
[2017-02-02 15:53:18] <owl> To piggyback on soups' initial comment.,
[2017-02-02 15:53:30] <TVSky> It's almost like emotional hallucinations in a way: it's clearly something you feel, but applying logic doesn't make it magically disappear
[2017-02-02 15:53:42] <TVSky> Yeah I agree
[2017-02-02 15:54:44] <owl> I've tried to tell myself (in, say, other situations with self consciousness) that "no one cares what you look like, or about that dumb thing you thought you said, because people often aren't concerned with what you're doing and have already forgotten the thing you're dwelling on."
[2017-02-02 15:54:58] <owl> Which is good advice, but it's never clicked on a more subconscious level.
[2017-02-02 15:55:03] <owl> Likely for the reasons we just talked about.
[2017-02-02 15:55:27] <owl> I can understand why behavior isn't healthy on a logical level, but it's been hard to adopt it in the moment.
[2017-02-02 15:55:37] <owl> And the emotional bit is likely the core of that.
[2017-02-02 15:55:50] <soups> takes much practice
[2017-02-02 15:55:53] <TVSky> Tbh, not to sound negative, but it's a slow process in rewiring that kind of stuff
[2017-02-02 15:56:01] <TVSky> And I agree with everything you said
[2017-02-02 15:56:05] <owl> It's nice to have a different outlook, though.
[2017-02-02 15:56:11] <owl> I think I've been coming at it on the wrong angle.
[2017-02-02 15:56:29] <owl> I'm fine with a slow process, as long as I have the best process. :v
[2017-02-02 15:56:53] <Luzija> flossing feels like a mini orgasm doesnt it
[2017-02-02 15:57:08] <TVSky> I promise you'll get there in time. I feel I'm pretty damn stable with things personally like, but it was years of work and learning through mostly trial and error about my own triggers and patterns
[2017-02-02 15:57:31] <owl> I wish. I use those floss picks that really make you work for healthy gums. Darn retainers left from braces prevent me from flossing normally.
[2017-02-02 15:57:36] <hex> REEEEEEEEE
[2017-02-02 15:57:42] <TVSky> Impulses don't dissappear but they become very reigned in imo
[2017-02-02 15:57:49] <lovergirl3209> 🐸
[2017-02-02 15:57:55] <owl> Thank you.
[2017-02-02 15:58:18] <soups> Luzija you hear of hydroxyzine?
[2017-02-02 15:58:40] <lovergirl3209> isn't that the weight loss stuff
[2017-02-02 15:58:40] <owl> I hadn't done anything therapy related for the entire decade+ I had been struggling with this. It was strictly pharma, so I'm used to time spent with not much progress. It feels good to be spending time on something that really will help.
[2017-02-02 15:59:20] <TVSky> Ofc you're welcome.
[2017-02-02 15:59:26] <soups> it is atarax/vistaril
[2017-02-02 15:59:36] <TVSky> Yeah I'm glad to hear you have a positive outlook
[2017-02-02 15:59:44] <lovergirl3209> lol oh my bad i was thinking hydroxycut haha
[2017-02-02 16:00:04] <soups> lool
[2017-02-02 16:00:12] <TVSky> And you already demonstrate the understanding/analysis necessary to start hacking at the stuff you'd like to change
[2017-02-02 16:00:12] <lovergirl3209> 🙈
[2017-02-02 16:00:23] <owl> I've always been motivated to seek help and to work on ways to improve myself. Taking to therapy like a duck to water. Quack. (.bef pls)
[2017-02-02 16:00:41] <TVSky> XD
[2017-02-02 16:02:15] <TVSky> Man I really admire your working spirit
[2017-02-02 16:02:37] <owl> Blush blush blush. Thank you kindly. :)
[2017-02-02 16:03:15] <owl> I had taken a break from my DBT therapy book because I had been trying to logic things out but I'll give it more of a chance now that I have a better understanding of why things are how they are.
[2017-02-02 16:03:17] <soups> woops i forgot to take off the ear patch thing
[2017-02-02 16:03:52] <TVSky> I did the same thing myself. Which version do you have?
[2017-02-02 16:04:19] <owl> @who? DBT book or ear patch thing. :V
[2017-02-02 16:04:27] <TVSky> I kind of rage quit mine a couple weeks ago regarding the higher power aspect stuff.
[2017-02-02 16:04:56] <TVSky> Sorry, you Owl. Which flavor of DBT workbook you got?
[2017-02-02 16:05:38] <owl> http://puu.sh/tLDML/073f1cb967.png
[2017-02-02 16:05:50] <TVSky> Yeah same here.
[2017-02-02 16:06:45] <owl> Coincidentally, my most recent stepdad had BPD and a lack of acceptance of help on his part ended the marriage. Mum had the book for herself and I started working through it before I even got the diagnosis because I thought it would be helpful for what I was dealing with (as someone supposedly with bipolar II disorder.)
[2017-02-02 16:07:05] <owl> Who knew it would be extremely relevant!
[2017-02-02 16:07:11] <TVSky> :D
[2017-02-02 16:08:58] <TVSky> I should really crack mine open again, bah. I was pretty diligent with my homework there for a while :/
[2017-02-02 16:09:20] <soups> that reminds me, i have dbt homework i still haventdone
[2017-02-02 16:09:29] <soups> since i cantfkn crochet , i should work on that tonight
[2017-02-02 16:09:45] <TVSky> I let myself cheat since I'm fairly high functioning, but then stress hits and I crack a bit D:
[2017-02-02 16:10:08] <TVSky> Which book you have soups?
[2017-02-02 16:10:31] <owl> I feel that, TVSky.
[2017-02-02 16:10:35] <soups> https://i.imgur.com/Fv3QU92.jpg this one lol
[2017-02-02 16:10:52] <TVSky> Wtf mine sucks
[2017-02-02 16:10:52] <owl> Also, the crochet bit reminds me of a thing that I recently discovered in terms of grounding activities that I'd love to share.
[2017-02-02 16:11:28] <soups> crocheting is great cause yarnis made of sheep and sheep like to eat things from the ground, so itis grounding
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[2017-02-02 16:12:15] <TVSky> Woah dude
[2017-02-02 16:12:21] <owl> Not sure if any of you have ever heard a kalimba, but I love the sound of them so much that I went and ordered one on Amazon. I'm not even that musically inclined but absentmindedly playing it just knocks me out. I've fallen asleep way earlier than I normally do for the past few days just because of it.
[2017-02-02 16:12:38] <owl> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3b1bz_9gEo
[2017-02-02 16:12:39] <bpdbot> (owl) A Simple Song - length 2m 17s - 96,774 likes, 2,243 dislikes (97.7%) - 12,086,444 views - patrickhadley on 2008.04.04
[2017-02-02 16:12:39] <amlida> .bef
[2017-02-02 16:12:40] <bpdbot> (amlida) You tried befriending a non-existent duck, that's fucking creepy.
[2017-02-02 16:13:30] <owl> Even cheap ones are still incredibly effective. https://www.amazon.com/Andoer-Birch-Finger-Thumb-Piano/dp/B0146137RG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1486073588&sr=8-3&keywords=kalimba
[2017-02-02 16:14:34] <soups> "oh hey i noticed your handis broken and you had hand surgery but can you crochet two of these things for me"
[2017-02-02 16:14:44] <soups> "yes, here is a very high price"
[2017-02-02 16:16:13] <bpdbot> ・ ​ ゜゜・。。・゜゜\​_O< QUAC​K!
[2017-02-02 16:16:22] <TVSky> .bef
[2017-02-02 16:16:23] <bpdbot> TVSky you befriended a duck in 9.495 seconds! You have made friends with 16 ducks in #bpd.
[2017-02-02 16:16:43] <soups> <3 duck friend
[2017-02-02 16:16:56] <hex> 🔫🐸
[2017-02-02 16:17:37] <lovergirl3209> I got new contacts today and it's weird, i should be used to them i've worn them since i was 11 lol but i haven't worn them for a year so i gotta get used to them again
[2017-02-02 16:19:29] <hex> do your eyeballs feel funny
[2017-02-02 16:19:34] <lovergirl3209> yes
[2017-02-02 16:19:39] <lovergirl3209> but he also numbed them earlier
[2017-02-02 16:20:21] <TVSky> Wtf Owl that thing is awesome
[2017-02-02 16:20:29] <TVSky> I want one now D:
[2017-02-02 16:21:17] <owl> It's like a portable lullaby that counts as stimming/hand busying AND soothing creativity.
[2017-02-02 16:21:31] <owl> One of the best purchases I've made in ages.
[2017-02-02 16:24:03] <soups> bleh  today is my anniversary
[2017-02-02 16:24:28] <lovergirl3209> reeeeeeeeeee
[2017-02-02 16:24:47] <soups> would be 4yrs today
[2017-02-02 16:25:36] <lovergirl3209> wow
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[2017-02-02 16:26:04] * Bot set +o Seraph
[2017-02-02 16:28:10] <lovergirl3209> hi phil
[2017-02-02 16:28:19] <Seraph> sup
[2017-02-02 16:28:22] ⇐ Luzija quit (user@mib-1ED9534E.hlrn.qwest.net): Connection reset by peer
[2017-02-02 16:28:33] <lovergirl3209> not a whole hell of a lot, wbu?
[2017-02-02 16:28:38] <soups> brain feels like molasses
[2017-02-02 16:28:39] <Seraph> nm
[2017-02-02 16:29:13] <hex> I miss playing the banjo :(
[2017-02-02 16:30:57] <Seraph> why do you not?
[2017-02-02 16:33:47] <tea> .bef
[2017-02-02 16:33:47] <bpdbot> (tea) You tried befriending a non-existent duck, that's fucking creepy.
[2017-02-02 16:34:32] <Seraph> .bang
[2017-02-02 16:34:32] <bpdbot> (Seraph) There is no duck. What are you shooting at?
[2017-02-02 16:34:49] <soups> .lurve herself
[2017-02-02 16:34:49] <bpdbot> soups lovingly tackles herself into a pit of the softest pillows ever
[2017-02-02 16:34:57] <Seraph> just like cheney woulda done :')
[2017-02-02 16:35:25] <owl> Self-care! Comfort!
[2017-02-02 16:35:47] <soups> .lurve herself
[2017-02-02 16:35:48] <bpdbot> soups wraps arms around herself and clings forever
[2017-02-02 16:35:50] <owl> Been thinking of making a grounding kit/comfort kit. Like a first aid kit but with sensory pleasures to carry around w/me.
[2017-02-02 16:35:59] <soups> oo that seems neat
[2017-02-02 16:36:08] <soups> what would you want to put in it?
[2017-02-02 16:36:38] <owl> Scents, hand lotions, a warming lil pad that they manufacture for cold winters.
[2017-02-02 16:36:43] <owl> Still trying to brainstorm more.
[2017-02-02 16:36:46] <TVSky> Mementos would be neat too
[2017-02-02 16:36:54] <soups> something very soft
[2017-02-02 16:36:58] <owl> They make even smaller kalimbas too. Tiny lil 5 note handheld ones.
[2017-02-02 16:37:00] <soups> like faux fur
[2017-02-02 16:37:04] <owl> Yus!
[2017-02-02 16:37:11] <owl> Lists of positive traits.
[2017-02-02 16:37:14] <owl> Candies?
[2017-02-02 16:37:19] <TVSky> I had some random good luck charms I carried with me around 17-19
[2017-02-02 16:37:21] <owl> Nonperishable yummy things.
[2017-02-02 16:37:23] <soups> peppermint candies
[2017-02-02 16:37:29] <TVSky> Stuff with good memories
[2017-02-02 16:37:41] <owl> All of this is great. And you can stuff it into a tiny lil box.