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Bionichute

cronus thing

Bionichute
Sep 14th, 2017
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  1. [12:44:11 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Did you look at Bayonetta's Witch Time
  2. [12:44:16 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: That seems relevant for a time stop mechanic
  3. [12:55:16 PM] Forward Arrow: "If the Omega Metroid drops from a sufficient height, perhaps about two Omega Metroids high, she will generate a small quake. This quake isn't as large as her down smash, Quake, but it is noticeable enough to cause a very brief stun on anyone nearby. The opponent won't take damage, but will be stunned very briefly, maybe about 3 frames. I thought this would be an interesting idea, since the Omega Metroid is a large character." can't really say I'm a fan of this mechanic
  4. [12:55:33 PM] Forward Arrow: (I'll check out Cronus once I get back from lunch, as I'm leaving in like 5 minutes)
  5. [12:56:24 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: I'd say the time pause in Cronus is almost balanced well, I think you should probably say an exact range they have to be in for it to work at least
  6. [12:56:49 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Honestly would be better balanced if it wasn't so insanely slow, but had a close range, so you could catch them out, rather than just camping/stalling for the space or doing it every new stock
  7. [12:58:39 PM] Bionichute: it has infinite range
  8. [1:00:19 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: I know, saying it shouldn't
  9. [1:00:33 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Or it could just be like, a counter, like Bayonetta's
  10. [1:00:46 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Actually research the numbers on that move and alter it accordingly
  11. [1:00:53 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: I have food too so I'll brb
  12. [1:11:58 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: [12:36 PM] Forward Arrow:
  13.  
  14. <<< I enjoyed Junkrat more than McCree, which is the opposite of what I expected going in. Found it a bit more inspired and I liked how it plays against shields.(y)!
  15. [1:12:50 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: https://pastebin.com/HaZkYWdM updated cronus a bit, would like opinions on the changesoh nice, I'll have to check this out (though I'm on phone atm)
  16. [1:14:24 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: on the subject of guldo's up b, I quite agree
  17. [1:14:26 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: up special would be more interesting and balanced if it only reset Cronus' position
  18. [1:14:51 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: mainly because the set says he has a great recovery when it's actually yoshi's but with no egg throw
  19. [1:15:03 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Up special should probably do something else when the clock is out too, even if it's just the typical Kamen Rider dive kick type deal
  20. [1:15:17 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: It doesn't have to be a great recovery, it could be Little Mac tier, that'd be fine
  21. [1:15:18 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: he can't even, like, freeze javelins as platforms to use later, because once he's hit the side b gets canceled
  22. [1:15:54 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: and he also can't do it on-the-fly without being close to the stage anyway
  23. [1:16:06 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: I remember I did something similar in O'Neill, but in that set he had the Yoshi Egg Throw as his up special basically, so his recovery wasn't quite as bad, and he could ever ride on the massive rockets too
  24. [1:16:10 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: So it's quite comparable really
  25. [1:16:40 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: in which case he basically has a somewhat decent recovery move that's as vulnerable as pk thunder
  26. [1:17:06 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: guldo basically has yoshi's jump to work with and that's it
  27. [1:17:24 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: I assume it has the armor at least, though iirc the set only says it's the same in terms of distance?
  28. [1:17:37 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Some more thoughts on Cronus' up special: it should really state if he's just vulnerable when he resets, as if he is then he is very predictable, even a small grace period would be good here so they don't casually go to where he'll respawn to charge a smash attack
  29. [1:17:56 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: And yeah, make him have an up special with a clock out, just the kick upwards would be fine
  30. [1:19:20 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: The minions should really state how the mirror works. Imagine 4 Cronus summoning 4 summons at once. Probably should be shared. It's a nitpick obv but not hard to fix
  31. [1:20:46 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Not sure I get the point of the minions lol, I don't like it just being passive, you should really have to summon each wave, and it should have stated lag too, but it's a fun concept
  32. [1:21:04 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: It doesn't really detail enough about how the AI evolves, and 10% could ever go up just slightly each wave.
  33. [1:22:34 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: giving cronus an actual recovery move would be good imo
  34. [1:22:52 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: since it lets him actually strategize around the clock
  35. [1:23:02 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Again it'd be good if his side special have another purpose once the foe is affected. Right now there's a lot of scenarios where his specials do almost nothing when his set up is out
  36. [1:23:33 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: though its long-term nature does limit the strategy element compared to, say, orcane from rivals of aether
  37. [1:24:21 PM] Bionichute: yeah that's probably a good idea
  38. [1:24:29 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Oh alright, the side special does have some use when someone is infected. i think it'd be cool if it was a really powerful KO grab move though
  39. [1:24:37 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: To reward you landing the grab twice
  40. [1:24:45 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: orcane's gimmick is that he has a puddle construct which he can place on the stage using either neutral b, which is a quick arcing projectile that flies a short distance through the air and places a puddle upon landing, or down b, which places it directly below him
  41. [1:25:41 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: orcane can then consume the puddle for a few different effects: down b turns the puddle into a tall hitbox, and using side b (command-dash) or a smash attack while on the puddle powers up the range and KO power of the attack
  42. [1:26:14 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: his up b is normally a wimpy upward jut that's worse than little mac's, but with a puddle active up b teleports to the puddle as a strong KO move
  43. [1:26:27 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: which is obviously his best recovery method
  44. [1:27:08 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: his side b command-dash, however, lets him mix up his recovery a lot, especially combined with rivals of aether mechanics like a directional airdodge and wall-jumping out of special fall
  45. [1:28:05 PM] UserShadow7989 (Hawke): Smashurai Daddiro - Today 1:00 PM
  46. > Or it could just be like, a counter, like Bayonetta's
  47. That's actually how All Star Battle handled Dio.
  48. [1:28:08 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: since he can place the puddle so quickly and easily with his projectile, he can place it for example on the opposite side of the stage preemptively, so that when he's knocked offstage, he can recover either to the side he's on via side b, or to the opposite side where the puddle is with up b
  49. [1:28:27 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: so the opponent has to choose which side of the stage to cover
  50. [1:29:05 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Yeah, making time stop a counter makes the most sense
  51. [1:29:18 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: </orcane rant>
  52. [1:29:26 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Of course balancing around a counter is not great for viability, but it's a good way to balance it
  53. [1:29:50 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: bayo's counter is actually pretty scary due to its insane power
  54. [1:30:00 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Good rant Muno
  55. [1:30:04 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: also she's a lot less vulnerable than the typical counter if you miss
  56. [1:30:06 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: thanks
  57. [1:30:12 PM] Bionichute: there's literally no way to balance a time stop well basically
  58. [1:30:24 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: I like that move, and it's fun to hear about an actual application of it in a real game
  59. [1:30:28 PM] Bionichute: that's what i'm getting from all this
  60. [1:30:35 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: Well we did just tell you how, either make it short range or a counter
  61. [1:30:49 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: I still think the power-meter idea is pretty solid
  62. [1:31:09 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: i.e. fill a time-stop meter with successful melee hits
  63. [1:31:14 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: and use up the meter to stop time
  64. [1:31:57 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: That's not bad
  65. [1:32:08 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: "The first is the above-mentioned lag. The move has no hitbox to it, and Cronus can only cancel out of it during the first few frames."
  66.  
  67. so is this so that he can, like, do b-reverse shenanigans?
  68. [1:32:12 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: The way this is balanced is just a bit extreme. Infinite range but Ganondorf utilt lag.
  69. [1:32:41 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: If anything making it a counter would make it more likely to hit
  70. [1:33:04 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: I personally think just making it close range but have less insane lag would be the best way to balance it
  71. [1:33:53 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: "However, Cronus cannot simply go straight into another Pause. Instead, he’ll need to wait a while, as the move has a sort of 'ammo bank' to it. With every hit Cronus connects, he’ll gain half a second of time for his next Pause, maxing out at 5 seconds after 10 hits."
  72.  
  73. (y)
  74. [1:35:23 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: so this might be broken and/or stupid
  75. [1:35:56 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: but I kinda think it'd be awesome to map warp-to-the-clock to up b, and make it usable during hitstun
  76. [1:36:33 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: actually that could be kinda neat, if it also destroyed the clock on use
  77. [1:37:00 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: since then there's a bit more choice involved, and you can take a gamble that you're gonna survive X kill move by not using the clock in order to save it for later
  78. [1:37:26 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: this also means that cronus isn't as vulnerable, since he can activate it sooner
  79. [1:37:40 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: so the opponent might for example still be stuck in endlag from the KO move
  80. [1:39:43 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: it could also convey, actually, the "idea" behind his infinite time stop from the source material kinda?
  81. [1:40:13 PM | Edited 1:40:10 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: like, in the same way that the source material time stop makes you helpless, him being able to teleport out of combos might make your efforts feel futile
  82. [1:40:30 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: I like all this
  83. [1:42:52 PM] not just a race, but a special race to see whos best at insect control: thx
  84. [1:44:23 PM] Bionichute: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJs8DPGXgAAFlH9.jpg
  85. [1:47:04 PM] Bionichute: ill work on all of this soon, I just have other stuff to work on/want to have a nap
  86. [1:47:15 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: To summarize, I think time stop should be close range/less lag, or just be a counter, minions should go into more detail on how it works with more than 1 Cronus and list the way the AI "evolves" more thoroughly, and up special should have some form of simple recovery (like a dive kick up) when the clock is out, plus it should state if Cronus is vulnerable when he spawns there, because if he is that seems too predictable. I do like the direction the set is going though.
  87. [1:47:43 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: And I guess side special landing twice being a cool KO move would be nice too
  88. [1:47:57 PM] Smashurai Daddiro: I had that in L'Belle
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