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Code Chat 02-16-2012

DeadSuperHero Feb 16th, 2012 546 Never
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  1. [5:53pm] msalzberg: rawr so who is all here!
  2. [5:53pm] msalzberg: show yourself!
  3. [5:53pm] dns|CostaRica: RAWR!!!!
  4. [5:54pm] Kevin_: Rawr
  5. [5:54pm] DenSchub: Blubb.
  6. [5:54pm] DenSchub: dns|CostaRica: Costa Rica?
  7. [5:54pm] DeadSuperHero: herp
  8. [5:54pm] DenSchub: Niice!
  9. [5:54pm] dns|CostaRica: furreal!
  10. [5:54pm] dns|CostaRica: party!
  11. [5:54pm] msalzberg: grippis got hella doctors appointment
  12. [5:54pm] msalzberg: so he will be late
  13. [5:55pm] stwf_ joined the chat room.
  14. [5:55pm] Kevin_: Is he okay?
  15. [5:55pm] stwf_: hello!
  16. [5:55pm] msalzberg: yeah he's cool normal stuff
  17. [5:55pm] DenSchub: Huh
  18. [5:55pm] msalzberg: heyyyo stwf_
  19. [5:56pm] msalzberg: so who are the bug mashers that are here so far today
  20. [5:56pm] msalzberg: i see raven24 and stwf_
  21. [5:56pm] msalzberg: who am i missing
  22. [5:56pm] stwf_: yup
  23. [5:56pm] msalzberg: hard to keep track github <=> irc <=> diaspora
  24. [5:57pm] raven24:                          
  25. [5:57pm] DeadSuperHero: Let's see, I've made a list...
  26. [5:57pm] • msalzberg is grateful that raven24 and stwf_ keeps it easy for me
  27. [5:58pm] dmorley joined the chat room.
  28. [5:58pm] DeadSuperHero: diasp is also here, if that's in fact diasp.eu, who committed a fix that got merged.
  29. [5:58pm] DeadSuperHero: Hopefully rekado will pop in, he made a fix this week as well.
  30. [5:59pm] msalzberg: i know is is on a new time zone for us
  31. [5:59pm] ktr_ joined the chat room.
  32. [5:59pm] dns|CostaRica: dmorley's in the house.
  33. [5:59pm] erchache2000: hi
  34. [5:59pm] msalzberg: so who knows what time it is in shanghai
  35. [5:59pm] dmorley: hihi
  36. [5:59pm] dns|CostaRica: ahoy!
  37. [5:59pm] msalzberg: dmorley sup
  38. [5:59pm] msalzberg: how many people are… at work?
  39. [5:59pm] stwf_: me
  40. [5:59pm] stultus: its 11.29 PM here in india
  41. [6:00pm] dmorley: yup @ work, my only hour of no meetings today oddly enuf
  42. [6:00pm] Arctic joined the chat room.
  43. [6:00pm] DenSchub: I just left the office - 7pm here
  44. [6:00pm] str4ngerZ joined the chat room.
  45. [6:00pm] msalzberg: nice
  46. [6:00pm] msalzberg: going to wait like 4 minutes to start
  47. [6:00pm] msalzberg: just to let some stragglers come in
  48. [6:01pm] str4ngerZ: salutes
  49. [6:01pm] dns|CostaRica: SHITS BLOWING UP!
  50. [6:01pm] stwf_: 1PM here in NY
  51. [6:01pm] dns|CostaRica: noontime in CostaRica
  52. [6:01pm] dns|CostaRica: 4 1/2 minutes, just to make things even.
  53. [6:01pm] stwf_: ok, I'll be in Costa Rica atomorrow
  54. [6:01pm] msalzberg: whhhhaa?
  55. [6:01pm] dns|CostaRica: brb howler monkey
  56. [6:01pm] msalzberg: ok furreals
  57. [6:01pm] pawan: hello fellow Diasporians
  58. [6:01pm] msalzberg: who has submitted a pull request at least once?
  59. [6:01pm] DeadSuperHero: Hi pawan
  60. [6:01pm] zipR4ND joined the chat room.
  61. [6:01pm] msalzberg: just wanna get a sense of whose all here?
  62. [6:02pm] pawan: hi
  63. [6:02pm] stwf_: I have two waiting in the queue now
  64. [6:02pm] dangar4l: Hi
  65. [6:02pm] pawan: close to midnight here in Nepal
  66. [6:02pm] zipR4ND: good evening
  67. [6:02pm] erchache2000: entering in the evening here in spain
  68. [6:02pm] DenSchub: I never submitted a pull request...
  69. [6:02pm] msalzberg: lolz
  70. [6:03pm] necromancer: good afternoon all!
  71. [6:03pm] msalzberg: heyyya
  72. [6:03pm] DeadSuperHero: Afternoon, necromancer
  73. [6:03pm] DeadSuperHero: DenSchub, don't feel bad. I never have, either.
  74. [6:03pm] sarahmei joined the chat room.
  75. [6:03pm] Johannes__ joined the chat room.
  76. [6:03pm] dns|CostaRica: OH HAI
  77. [6:03pm] DenSchub: DeadSuperHero: I pushed directly to master^^
  78. [6:03pm] msalzberg: hola sarahmei
  79. [6:03pm] DeadSuperHero: Hai sarahmei
  80. [6:03pm] necromancer: feels good to get back into the project again as i've had to be somewhat absent due to snagging a new job
  81. [6:03pm] msalzberg: necromancer: yay!
  82. [6:03pm] sarahmei: Morning
  83. [6:04pm] DeadSuperHero: necromancer, yeah, I know how that is. Well welcome back anyway!
  84. [6:04pm] jjoe joined the chat room.
  85. [6:04pm] necromancer: thanks
  86. [6:04pm] Arctic: Wow D* is very international , never noticed it  that much before  
  87. [6:04pm] msalzberg: all over the worlds
  88. [6:04pm] msalzberg: all 13 colonys
  89. [6:04pm] DeadSuperHero: Oh yeah. There are pods all over the place.
  90. [6:04pm] grippi joined the chat room.
  91. [6:04pm] dns|CostaRica: yeah, makes it hard to schedule a meeting
  92. [6:04pm] DeadSuperHero: We even have one on Mars.
  93. [6:04pm] dns|CostaRica: poor Rekkado
  94. [6:05pm] msalzberg: lolololololololol
  95. [6:05pm] MrZYX joined the chat room.
  96. [6:05pm] DeadSuperHero: Hai MrZYX
  97. [6:05pm] DeadSuperHero:                          
  98. [6:05pm] duck1123 joined the chat room.
  99. [6:05pm] msalzberg: ok great MrZYX is here so now we can start
  100. [6:05pm] grippi: wowzers look at all of these people
  101. [6:05pm] MrZYX: lol, hi
  102. [6:05pm] msalzberg: ok
  103. [6:05pm] msalzberg: so here is the rough agenda, to give you all an idea
  104. [6:05pm] zip4RAND joined the chat room.
  105. [6:05pm] DenSchub: Hi MrZYX
  106. [6:05pm] msalzberg: and we can dive into them one at a time
  107. [6:06pm] msalzberg: Agenda:
  108. [6:06pm] msalzberg: 1. Bug Mash Monday!
  109. [6:06pm] msalzberg: 2. Redesign Pin => Follow
  110. [6:06pm] msalzberg: 3. Federation testing
  111. [6:06pm] msalzberg: 4. Things we need help with:
  112. [6:06pm] dns|CostaRica: get you comfortable.
  113. [6:06pm] dns|CostaRica: move in for the kill.
  114. [6:06pm] msalzberg: 5. Questions?
  115. [6:06pm] pawan: Excited
  116. [6:06pm] msalzberg: copa?
  117. [6:06pm] msalzberg: k!
  118. [6:06pm] dns|CostaRica: CAPYPASTA!
  119. [6:06pm] msalzberg: 1. Bug mash monday!
  120. [6:06pm] msalzberg: looks like the second week
  121. [6:06pm] msalzberg: turned into a double week!
  122. [6:07pm] msalzberg: DeadSuperHero: who is all here
  123. [6:07pm] msalzberg: and would the bug mashers please stand up
  124. [6:07pm] stwf_: its hard to get a fix a done and specced in just a week!
  125. [6:07pm] msalzberg: i see raven24 stwf_  and diasp
  126. [6:07pm] • str4ngerZ iz here
  127. [6:07pm] stwf_: if you don't know the code at all...
  128. [6:07pm] msalzberg: understood
  129. [6:07pm] msalzberg: do you think he bugs are too big
  130. [6:07pm] msalzberg: our hints are not helpful enough?
  131. [6:07pm] msalzberg: id love any feedback you have to make your life easier
  132. [6:08pm] stwf_: nope just that a week may not be enough
  133. [6:08pm] msalzberg: ok
  134. [6:08pm] msalzberg: if they spill over, I am ok with that
  135. [6:08pm] msalzberg:                          
  136. [6:08pm] sonst-was joined the chat room.
  137. [6:08pm] msalzberg: I guess maybe more of the point would be to get a semi constant stream of things that were easy to pick off
  138. [6:08pm] DeadSuperHero: I think part of the problem has been writing tests, it kind of slowed a lot of people down, especially because the newcomers may not have documentation resources they need.
  139. [6:08pm] raven24: I think if you understood RoR, then there should be no huge problems with getting bugs solved
  140. [6:09pm] msalzberg: yeah, tests are REALLY important
  141. [6:09pm] stwf_: I have issues with the jasmine specs, like getting fixtures created
  142. [6:09pm] msalzberg: with as many moving parts
  143. [6:09pm] raven24: but the testing may be new to some people
  144. [6:09pm] dmorley: I would just throw out there that I wanted to grab a few, but would not have time till the end of week/weekend but did not want to hold things up by taking one i would work on 7 days later
  145. [6:09pm] msalzberg: dmorley: thats a good point
  146. [6:09pm] msalzberg: so about fixutres
  147. [6:09pm] dns|CostaRica: stwf_: we're actually trying to move away from jasmine fixtures
  148. [6:09pm] msalzberg: grippi what is the rake command to regenerate the controller fixtures
  149. [6:09pm] msalzberg: ok
  150. [6:10pm] msalzberg: don't listen to me
  151. [6:10pm] dns|CostaRica: in place of using jasmine factories in our backbone stuff
  152. [6:10pm] sarahmei: msalzberg: Davis just released a sample rails app showing how he uses jasmine
  153. [6:10pm] dns|CostaRica: so our legacy tests rely on them
  154. [6:10pm] grippi: rake generate_fixtures
  155. [6:10pm] msalzberg: what about if it is on a dom fragment
  156. [6:10pm] stwf_: there is rake generate_fixtures
  157. [6:10pm] sarahmei: Miggt be helpful for folks new to jasmine testing
  158. [6:10pm] msalzberg: ok
  159. [6:10pm] dns|CostaRica: msalzberg: backbone views mean you don't need dom fragments
  160. [6:10pm] msalzberg: k
  161. [6:10pm] grippi: dns|CostaRica and i have been creating js factories around our backbones models
  162. [6:10pm] msalzberg: right
  163. [6:10pm] msalzberg: yeah
  164. [6:10pm] sarahmei: Brcause our jasmine setup is a little crazy
  165. [6:10pm] dns|CostaRica: we're testing most of our backbone views detached from the dome
  166. [6:10pm] msalzberg: so lets get davis' thing
  167. [6:11pm] msalzberg: and send it out the list
  168. [6:11pm] dns|CostaRica: dome things need to be attached for crazy event reasons
  169. [6:11pm] msalzberg: we can add it to resources to help people with jasmine
  170. [6:11pm] dns|CostaRica: but no need for controller tests to generate views in the hot newness.
  171. [6:11pm] msalzberg: <3s it
  172. [6:11pm] stwf_: some thing it seems like would just be better tested with cucmber, really run in a web page though, right?
  173. [6:11pm] msalzberg: ok other than jasmine
  174. [6:12pm] dns|CostaRica: stwf_: you don't want to test EVERYTHING with cucumber, generally you want one or two happy path tests
  175. [6:12pm] msalzberg: stwf_: generally cukes are good for the happy path testing
  176. [6:12pm] Johannes___ joined the chat room.
  177. [6:12pm] pilupetutti joined the chat room.
  178. [6:12pm] stwf_: I think the genreate_fixtures fails silently if you didn't set up the spec right, so its hard to debug
  179. [6:12pm] mathis_ joined the chat room.
  180. [6:12pm] zipR4ND left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  181. [6:12pm] dns|CostaRica: we have a goal of getting the cukes to run in under 5minutes on a  "normal computer"
  182. [6:12pm] lnxwalt joined the chat room.
  183. [6:12pm] dns|CostaRica: if it takes more than that people don't run them.
  184. [6:12pm] grippi: stwf_: try running rspec spec/controllers/jasmine_fixtures
  185. [6:12pm] Arctic left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  186. [6:12pm] star_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  187. [6:12pm] pawan left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  188. [6:12pm] mathis left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  189. [6:13pm] dns|CostaRica: But the tests are hella important for bug mash monday
  190. [6:13pm] msalzberg: so i see we have some outstanding knowledge to share re:jasime
  191. [6:13pm] dns|CostaRica: cause if there aren't tests, the bugs will regress
  192. [6:13pm] msalzberg: but DeadSuperHero, what other things got fixed?
  193. [6:13pm] stwf_: I agree test are important!
  194. [6:13pm] DeadSuperHero: Tons of stuff actually.
  195. [6:13pm] dns|CostaRica: when dan and I did the backbone rewrite, we got all the tests to pass, and a bunch of features disappeared
  196. [6:13pm] msalzberg: stwf_: you make a great effort we appreciate it ++
  197. [6:13pm] raven24: I think there should be a testing 101 in the wiki, what is supposed to test what and how does one create new tests
  198. [6:13pm] DeadSuperHero: 6 out of the 8 bugs already have pull requests
  199. [6:13pm] DeadSuperHero: 2 of which have already been merged.
  200. [6:13pm] dns|CostaRica: so we had to decide "OK, those features never existed, lets move on"
  201. [6:13pm] dns|CostaRica: no tests = not fixed
  202. [6:13pm] msalzberg: ok so it sounds like we need to look at pull requests
  203. [6:14pm] msalzberg: is anyone here with an outstanding pull request?
  204. [6:14pm] grippi: i was looking at them yesterday
  205. [6:14pm] msalzberg: that wants to speak up
  206. [6:14pm] grippi: a bunch weren't tested
  207. [6:14pm] msalzberg: orly grippi
  208. [6:14pm] msalzberg: ok
  209. [6:14pm] msalzberg: we should follow up
  210. [6:14pm] grippi: i did
  211. [6:14pm] Johannes__ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  212. [6:14pm] lnxwalt left the chat room. (Client Quit)
  213. [6:14pm] stwf_: I noticed that while the javascript contacts-index does get loaded the object Diaspora.Pages.ContactsIndex no longer gets instantiated. This threw me off a bit.
  214. [6:15pm] msalzberg: yeah the old pages system
  215. [6:15pm] stwf_: I have two awaiting jasmine stuff, but I've had some breakthroughs
  216. [6:15pm] msalzberg: i think it is broken
  217. [6:15pm] msalzberg: we have an outstanding chore
  218. [6:15pm] msalzberg: to re-implement them with the backbone stuff
  219. [6:15pm] grippi: pages never get instantiated anymore, i think
  220. [6:15pm] star_ joined the chat room.
  221. [6:15pm] dns|CostaRica: I thought they did ....
  222. [6:15pm] stwf_: PArt of me wants to back off from big fixing untilthis redesign is done..
  223. [6:15pm] grippi: i'll have to look into it
  224. [6:15pm] msalzberg: hey raven24 whats the status with fixing the photos pages
  225. [6:15pm] msalzberg: ?
  226. [6:15pm] sarahmei: That will make it much easier to understand if we can get rid of vestigial JavaScript patterns
  227. [6:16pm] grippi: yeah, those drive me up a wall
  228. [6:16pm] raven24: It is usable, but not all of the features are back and I would need feedback on the code
  229. [6:16pm] msalzberg: ok
  230. [6:16pm] msalzberg: i will give you feedback today
  231. [6:16pm] msalzberg:                          
  232. [6:17pm] msalzberg: DeadSuperHero: who else are we missing
  233. [6:17pm] msalzberg: actually hold that thought
  234. [6:17pm] jaywink joined the chat room.
  235. [6:17pm] jaywink: Hey
  236. [6:17pm] grippi: it would be great to rewrite broken bits of old js in backbone
  237. [6:17pm] msalzberg: so raven24 and stwf_, it would also be cool
  238. [6:17pm] msalzberg: if you get stuck or need feedback
  239. [6:17pm] msalzberg: to mail diaspora-dev
  240. [6:17pm] msalzberg: and ask for it
  241. [6:17pm] darkham joined the chat room.
  242. [6:17pm] msalzberg: that way when we respond, other people can also read our responses
  243. [6:17pm] msalzberg: and learn
  244. [6:17pm] msalzberg: its a bummer closed pull requests are hard to get to
  245. [6:18pm] raven24: Ok, I see ... I was under the impression that an open pull request would be enough to draw some attention
  246. [6:18pm] darkham: hi to you all
  247. [6:18pm] msalzberg: as i feel like lots of knowledge is lost
  248. [6:18pm] msalzberg: raven24: no it is
  249. [6:18pm] msalzberg: but sometimes
  250. [6:18pm] msalzberg: i don't know if its still WIP
  251. [6:18pm] stwf_: ok, will do.
  252. [6:18pm] msalzberg: or you are stuck
  253. [6:18pm] msalzberg: ?
  254. [6:18pm] raven24: sure, haven't thought about it from that angle
  255. [6:18pm] msalzberg: yeah
  256. [6:18pm] msalzberg: i guess even if its a comment thats like
  257. [6:19pm] msalzberg: "i think this is pull-able"
  258. [6:19pm] msalzberg: that will solicit feedback from us
  259. [6:19pm] msalzberg: then we know to  give you feedback
  260. [6:19pm] msalzberg: ok
  261. [6:19pm] msalzberg: sorry DeadSuperHero, is there anyone else here?
  262. [6:20pm] DeadSuperHero: Not all of the Bugmashers have shown up
  263. [6:20pm] msalzberg: ok
  264. [6:20pm] DeadSuperHero: Rekado in particular was one of the people whose code got merged.
  265. [6:20pm] msalzberg: yeah rekado++
  266. [6:20pm] DeadSuperHero: diasp.eu, too.
  267. [6:20pm] eebrah joined the chat room.
  268. [6:20pm] msalzberg: well, anyone planning on doing the next bug mash, that is here?
  269. [6:20pm] msalzberg: new blood? anyone?
  270. [6:21pm] msalzberg: ok well we can keep working on it for next time
  271. [6:21pm] stwf_: I'm awa next week, hoping to get my bugs cleared. THen when I get backI'll happily take on some more...
  272. [6:21pm] msalzberg: stwf_: sounds great
  273. [6:21pm] msalzberg: DeadSuperHero: do you think we will have another volley of bugs to release next monday?
  274. [6:21pm] grippi: jeez, i can't even load github in this starbucks
  275. [6:21pm] DeadSuperHero: Go at whatever pace you find necessary, stwf_
  276. [6:21pm] stwf_: I mean lear the current ones before I go away
  277. [6:21pm] DeadSuperHero: msalzberg, I already have a list written up.
  278. [6:22pm] msalzberg: DeadSuperHero++
  279. [6:22pm] msalzberg: <3
  280. [6:22pm] msalzberg: ok
  281. [6:22pm] DeadSuperHero: <333333333
  282. [6:22pm] msalzberg: so
  283. [6:22pm] msalzberg: any questions on BMM?
  284. [6:22pm] dns|CostaRica: so
  285. [6:22pm] msalzberg: help?
  286. [6:22pm] dns|CostaRica: Bugmashers <3
  287. [6:22pm] dns|CostaRica: thanks for doing it
  288. [6:22pm] msalzberg: ok
  289. [6:22pm] msalzberg: rad
  290. [6:22pm] dns|CostaRica: seems like we need a little more communication
  291. [6:22pm] necromancer: msalzberg: sorry i was away last week mostly
  292. [6:22pm] msalzberg: necromancer: no sweat, everyones got their own lives
  293. [6:22pm] dns|CostaRica: so I'm going to encourage mashers to ask us for help in diaspora-dev
  294. [6:22pm] msalzberg: ye
  295. [6:22pm] msalzberg: s
  296. [6:22pm] necromancer: msalzberg: what is the proper way of contributing a bug fix?
  297. [6:22pm] msalzberg: a pull request
  298. [6:22pm] necromancer: feature branch + pull request?
  299. [6:23pm] msalzberg: yessir
  300. [6:23pm] msalzberg: + tests
  301. [6:23pm] necromancer: cool beans
  302. [6:23pm] dns|CostaRica: claim a bug, right test, implement, merge
  303. [6:23pm] necromancer: obviously
  304. [6:23pm] dns|CostaRica: #protip to the mashers
  305. [6:23pm] msalzberg: ok, bradical
  306. [6:23pm] necromancer: msalzberg: what's your opinion on cukes though...are they required?
  307. [6:23pm] msalzberg: we should have a quick FAQ
  308. [6:23pm] grippi: it's easier to remember to test if you start with em first
  309. [6:23pm] grippi: exposing the bug
  310. [6:23pm] grippi: then making it green
  311. [6:23pm] dns|CostaRica: if you right the test first, and it's red, then you make it go green
  312. [6:23pm] dns|CostaRica: you know it tests it
  313. [6:23pm] msalzberg: necromancer: we are saying happy path cuke first
  314. [6:23pm] dns|CostaRica: ….
  315. [6:23pm] grippi: dns|CostaRica: JINX
  316. [6:24pm] msalzberg: lolz
  317. [6:24pm] msalzberg: ok
  318. [6:24pm] elb joined the chat room.
  319. [6:24pm] dns|CostaRica: OH ME A COKE!
  320. [6:24pm] dns|CostaRica: OWE*
  321. [6:24pm] msalzberg: necromancer: i look forward to your bugfixesssss
  322. [6:24pm] dns|CostaRica: moving on...
  323. [6:24pm] msalzberg: MOVING ON
  324. [6:24pm] msalzberg: JINX
  325. [6:24pm] msalzberg: ok
  326. [6:24pm] msalzberg: sry
  327. [6:24pm] msalzberg: 2. Redesign Pin => Follow
  328. [6:24pm] grippi: stellar
  329. [6:24pm] dns|CostaRica: srsly
  330. [6:24pm] msalzberg: so obviously, we made some design changes
  331. [6:24pm] grippi: people got way confused with our changes
  332. [6:24pm] msalzberg: we beta tested some verbiage
  333. [6:24pm] msalzberg: yeah
  334. [6:24pm] dns|CostaRica: I'm not stoked on follow, but might be convinced later.
  335. [6:25pm] msalzberg: in terms of the word
  336. [6:25pm] msalzberg: but, the feature itself is solid
  337. [6:25pm] msalzberg: and now there are participations
  338. [6:25pm] msalzberg: which are separate than likes
  339. [6:25pm] rovemonteux joined the chat room.
  340. [6:25pm] grippi: we wanted to make a system that allowed people to keep track of conversations easier
  341. [6:25pm] dns|CostaRica: I think that there will be more changes in verbiage, but at least we've demonstrated that we're not attached to our choices, and want to see what works and what doesn't
  342. [6:25pm] stwf_: personally I like'Pin', but I feel it is different than 'Like' and both are useful
  343. [6:25pm] grippi: yeah
  344. [6:26pm] grippi: we've been listening to users' reactions, and have been fixing the UI accordingly
  345. [6:26pm] grippi: stwf_: yeah
  346. [6:26pm] stwf_: Pin to recall or keep track of stuff whether I like it or not!
  347. [6:26pm] grippi: thats why we separated them into follow / like
  348. [6:26pm] dns|CostaRica: pin => follow right now, we need to have an Icon for it, so we can show who is following the conversation.
  349. [6:26pm] dns|CostaRica: which is different then who has liked.
  350. [6:26pm] stwf_: 'Like' is a bad description, the correct idea is more like, 'I'm with you'
  351. [6:27pm] stwf_: as in liking a pictorial of WHitney Houstons funeral, etc
  352. [6:27pm] dns|CostaRica: agreed, but this is a really long conversation to have.
  353. [6:27pm] msalzberg: I'm with you whitney
  354. [6:27pm] msalzberg: im with you
  355. [6:27pm] dns|CostaRica: too bad about the wasps..
  356. [6:27pm] msalzberg: yeah man what a way to go
  357. [6:27pm] msalzberg: OK
  358. [6:27pm] dns|CostaRica: wasps got her...
  359. [6:27pm] msalzberg: but we did learn a bunch of things
  360. [6:28pm] msalzberg: 1. we need to focus on our tools to help people create stuff inside diaspora
  361. [6:28pm] msalzberg: 2. simplifying the current interface is a good thing
  362. [6:28pm] dns|CostaRica: (moar better publisher)
  363. [6:28pm] msalzberg: 3. we need to keep pushing the sense of ownership, both in the design, and backend technology
  364. [6:28pm] darkham: mobile app. definitely.
  365. [6:28pm] dns|CostaRica: not just a sense of
  366. [6:29pm] msalzberg: yeah
  367. [6:29pm] dns|CostaRica: but conveying a sense of ownership will reinforce the literal data ownership.
  368. [6:29pm] msalzberg: dns|CostaRica:++
  369. [6:29pm] grippi: yeah, so we've had some learnings, and some realizations
  370. [6:29pm] dns|CostaRica: wihc is what we wanna move towards
  371. [6:29pm] grippi: with the current "redesign" stuff, we were pixel pushing
  372. [6:29pm] msalzberg: so next steps, roughly for us
  373. [6:29pm] msalzberg: 1. as dennis said, improving publishing tools
  374. [6:29pm] grippi: moving forward, we need to emphasize our core differentiators
  375. [6:30pm] grippi: which is data ownership (via decentralization, etc)
  376. [6:30pm] grippi: and playing up self expression
  377. [6:30pm] Kevin_: ^
  378. [6:30pm] dns|CostaRica: I would prefer "enabling" to playing up, but well said
  379. [6:30pm] Kevin_: I think self-expression is extremely limited on Diaspora so far
  380. [6:31pm] grippi: we ultimately want to turn diaspora into something that allows oneself to be expressive, on their own "turf"
  381. [6:31pm] grippi: Kevin_: exactly
  382. [6:31pm] dns|CostaRica: enabling self expression with personal data ownership and privacy OMG
  383. [6:31pm] grippi: that's what we are aiming to tackle in the near future
  384. [6:31pm] DeadSuperHero: Our own home on the web, so to speak.
  385. [6:31pm] str4ngerZ: dns|CostaRica: ++
  386. [6:31pm] dns|CostaRica: grippi ++
  387. [6:31pm] grippi: these are things that we can aggressively tackle
  388. [6:31pm] grippi: and they are core attributes that we have that the "others" don't
  389. [6:32pm] grippi: so it's going to be our goal to make not an alternative, but something fundamentally different than the big guys
  390. [6:32pm] grippi: that's how we're going to win
  391. [6:32pm] str4ngerZ: i'd like to have federation-stability tackle'd first
  392. [6:32pm] grippi: exactly str4ngerZ
  393. [6:32pm] DeadSuperHero: That's a pretty high priority for us.
  394. [6:32pm] grippi: so to give you guys a heads up on the roadmap
  395. [6:32pm] grippi: it's getting federation nailed down
  396. [6:33pm] grippi: then making installation super dumb and easy
  397. [6:33pm] grippi: then making it easy to customize
  398. [6:33pm] grippi: pretty simple
  399. [6:33pm] necromancer: grippi: i absolutely agree with <grippi> so it's going to be our goal to make not an alternative, but something fundamentally different than the big guys
  400. [6:33pm] grippi: yeah
  401. [6:33pm] dns|CostaRica: str4ngerZ federation is one of our top goals
  402. [6:33pm] stwf_: what forms of customization do you mean? themes? or features etc
  403. [6:33pm] grippi: that's how we're gonna CRUSH THE SCENE
  404. [6:33pm] str4ngerZ: grippi: installation superdump & easy VS rails+rvm?
  405. [6:33pm] necromancer: i have a start on the installer if anyone's interested
  406. [6:33pm] grippi: stwf_: we've been kicking around some ideas internally
  407. [6:34pm] dns|CostaRica: msalzberg did some awesome work last week to make federation easier to test
  408. [6:34pm] necromancer: i think we should make it a self-executing Thor script in a bianry
  409. [6:34pm] necromancer: binary*
  410. [6:34pm] necromancer: i've made a few of these in the past month and they're super effective for controlling your app
  411. [6:34pm] grippi: we want to gather our grumblings and mumblings a bit more before we present our proposal to everyone
  412. [6:34pm] msalzberg: yeah, in terms of easier install, until federation gets revamped
  413. [6:34pm] str4ngerZ: dns|CostaRica: i'm in for creating a federation-testsuite
  414. [6:34pm] stwf_: it sounds great I'm glad you're approaching htis from a clean slate
  415. [6:34pm] grippi: yeah
  416. [6:34pm] msalzberg: i don't think we really want 'end users' to install diaspora
  417. [6:34pm] dns|CostaRica: and now we're trying to take down the barrier to entry to running your own pod
  418. [6:34pm] msalzberg: we want to target to be easy to install for developers
  419. [6:34pm] msalzberg: but once we get those things nailed down
  420. [6:34pm] msalzberg: then we want to focus on end user installations
  421. [6:35pm] dns|CostaRica: of a higher priority right now than installation, is reducing the burden on the server
  422. [6:35pm] dns|CostaRica: str4ngerZ lets talk more off line, federation is going through some big changes
  423. [6:35pm] grippi: dns|CostaRica: & a more reliable federation architecture
  424. [6:35pm] grippi: (kfed)
  425. [6:35pm] stwf_: so these ideas are to be done pre-beta?
  426. [6:35pm] Kevin_: Small question that probably asks for a big answer: how do you see small pods work properly with hashtags?
  427. [6:35pm] dns|CostaRica: yeah, I'm "spiking" on a new federation architecture this week in costa rica
  428. [6:36pm] grippi: Kevin_: right now, no
  429. [6:36pm] dns|CostaRica: a spike is when you go off, and build an experimental version of something as a proof of concept
  430. [6:36pm] dns|CostaRica: it's not intended to be released to the world directly
  431. [6:36pm] dns|CostaRica: but to prove the concept
  432. [6:36pm] grippi: Kevin_: hashtags are a feature that the big guys have
  433. [6:36pm] dns|CostaRica: so we can build a better version
  434. [6:36pm] grippi: it's a cliche thing that has helped us
  435. [6:36pm] grippi: but it's not going to make people use diaspora
  436. [6:37pm] grippi: a hashtag search on twitter is most likely always going to trump one on diaspora
  437. [6:37pm] grippi: and that's just the way it's going to be
  438. [6:37pm] Kevin_: Yeah
  439. [6:37pm] grippi: and that's why we're attacking things from a different angle
  440. [6:37pm] grippi: because we can't beat the big guys at their own game
  441. [6:37pm] grippi: we need to reinvent the game
  442. [6:37pm] dns|CostaRica: in the future, when we have moar resources, we can maybe tackle indexing federated data in a privacy supported way
  443. [6:37pm] grippi: (sorry for being abstract)
  444. [6:37pm] dns|CostaRica: but that is a hard problem
  445. [6:37pm] dns|CostaRica: that we don't currently have the resources for
  446. [6:37pm] dns|CostaRica: (its what googles original business model was)
  447. [6:38pm] stwf_: I guess a problem is for someone setting up a solo or family pod seeing interesting posts
  448. [6:38pm] Kevin_: It's not abstract Grippi, I get it
  449. [6:38pm] grippi: stwf_: yeah, exactly
  450. [6:38pm] msalzberg: stwf_: i do think kfed can solve some of these issues
  451. [6:38pm] dns|CostaRica: stwf_ we want to give users ways of controlling their data, possibly without setting up their own servers
  452. [6:38pm] dns|CostaRica: we're examine setting up a master/slave pod type of thing
  453. [6:38pm] msalzberg: there is decentralized federated infastructure
  454. [6:38pm] dangar4l: What about integration with identi.ca?
  455. [6:38pm] grippi: as we see it, the main driver for someone to set up their own diaspora installation is more akin to why someone would set up their own wordpress installation
  456. [6:38pm] msalzberg: that a small pod could subscribe to a community hub
  457. [6:39pm] stwf_: most people will not be setting up servers for sure
  458. [6:39pm] msalzberg: dangar4l: we would accept a working pull request with tests
  459. [6:39pm] dns|CostaRica: as joindiaspora had to upgrade to 32 gigs of ram in the database, we want to look at ways of making it smaller
  460. [6:39pm] elb: grippi: that may be true, re: hashtag search on twitter, but it's veyr hard to "stumble" on anything without federated hashtags (or some form of federated search -> feed)
  461. [6:39pm] grippi: elb: right
  462. [6:39pm] dns|CostaRica: other people use database sharing, which is essentially federation on the database level
  463. [6:39pm] dns|CostaRica: since diaspora supports federation as a first class concept
  464. [6:39pm] necromancer: i would like to see this project stick to questions like "how can we improve the D* platform?" rather than "how can we integrate D* into <x> platform?"
  465. [6:39pm] dns|CostaRica: we're looking at integrating it more deeply into our architecture
  466. [6:39pm] msalzberg: necromancer++
  467. [6:39pm] necromancer: i've seen way too much talk about <insert social network here> integration on the list...
  468. [6:40pm] msalzberg: agreed, its not super high priority at the momenet
  469. [6:40pm] dns|CostaRica: necromancer we don't pay attention to those posts
  470. [6:40pm] erchache2000: integration wiht identi.ca/statusnet will be great!
  471. [6:40pm] dns|CostaRica: write it!
  472. [6:40pm] dns|CostaRica: do it well!
  473. [6:40pm] msalzberg: why?  you can do it with 50 million other things
  474. [6:40pm] dns|CostaRica: talk to us about how you're planning on doing it
  475. [6:40pm] dns|CostaRica: so we can make sure it fits in
  476. [6:40pm] dns|CostaRica: but we're aiming at being bigger than another social network
  477. [6:40pm] erchache2000: dns|CostaRica: how big are innodb database of joindiaspora?
  478. [6:41pm] grippi: erchache2000: too big
  479. [6:41pm] dns|CostaRica: we want to make it really easy for users to own and control their databases
  480. [6:41pm] erchache2000: grippi: HOW big
  481. [6:41pm] dns|CostaRica: erchache2000: last week our indexes took up 30 gigs of ram
  482. [6:41pm] erchache2000: 3 gb
  483. [6:41pm] dns|CostaRica: we refactored the database
  484. [6:41pm] erchache2000: neeeeee
  485. [6:41pm] dns|CostaRica: and now we're running in 16 gigs
  486. [6:41pm] erchache2000: disk space!
  487. [6:41pm] grippi: erchache2000: why?
  488. [6:41pm] erchache2000: mysql eats so memory you put it
  489. [6:41pm] grippi: but why does it matter?
  490. [6:41pm] msalzberg: its like 3-4gb gzipped
  491. [6:42pm] msalzberg: last time i checked
  492. [6:42pm] erchache2000: REAL data
  493. [6:42pm] dns|CostaRica: which I guess means like 8 or 9 ungzipped
  494. [6:42pm] sarahmei: Are you posting transcripts of this later, because I can't keep up with you guys
  495. [6:42pm] erchache2000: without compression
  496. [6:42pm] erchache2000: yeah dns|CostaRica
  497. [6:42pm] rovemonteux left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
  498. [6:42pm] DeadSuperHero: sarahmei, yep.
  499. [6:42pm] grippi: a new federation system is not about minimizing disk space in mysql as much as actually writing an efficient one
  500. [6:42pm] msalzberg: but like maybe 70% is the permissions data
  501. [6:42pm] msalzberg: which is just a giant join table
  502. [6:42pm] dangar4l: Be integrated with other social networks free. Excuse my English, I am using a translator.
  503. [6:43pm] erchache2000: msalzberg: a bad definition of relational tables?
  504. [6:43pm] msalzberg: ?
  505. [6:43pm] grippi: let's not concern ourselves with how large or small our database is right now
  506. [6:43pm] grippi: this isn't constructive
  507. [6:43pm] msalzberg: yeah grippi
  508. [6:43pm] erchache2000: yeah right
  509. [6:43pm] msalzberg: i wanna talk aobut
  510. [6:43pm] erchache2000:                          
  511. [6:43pm] msalzberg: the federation testing script i wrote this week
  512. [6:44pm] grippi: woo
  513. [6:44pm] msalzberg: and how if you have an hour or two, you can give us good logs of both sides of federation for your bug reports or whatnot
  514. [6:44pm] msalzberg: which is really important, because bug reports like
  515. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: its not something we keep track of
  516. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: because disk space is cheap
  517. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: but how much memory the db needs to run is not
  518. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: two weeks ago that number was 32 gb
  519. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: now it's 17gb (yay refactoring, thanks msalzberg grippi and sarahmei!)
  520. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: but still 17gb is too much
  521. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: we *could* implement sharing on the db level
  522. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: but that would increase complexity in the code
  523. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: a lot
  524. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: since we already have federation
  525. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: we are looking at ways of having master/slave pods
  526. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: so joindiaspora can be made up of slave pods
  527. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: (a fact which the users shouldn't ever have to be aware of)
  528. [6:44pm] msalzberg: oops
  529. [6:44pm] msalzberg: dns|CostaRica: is is costa rica
  530. [6:44pm] msalzberg: and his internet sucks
  531. [6:44pm] dns|CostaRica: yup
  532. [6:44pm] msalzberg: ok
  533. [6:45pm] zikalify-afk is now known as zikalify.
  534. [6:45pm] zikalify: ah damn, forgot this was on
  535. [6:45pm] msalzberg: so basically, did everyone see my email?
  536. [6:45pm] dns|CostaRica: so we want to make federation not suck
  537. [6:45pm] grippi: zikalify: sup paul?
  538. [6:45pm] duck1123: so multiple slave pods would work together to serve the same domain?
  539. [6:45pm] msalzberg: ?
  540. [6:45pm] dns|CostaRica: duck1123: maybe
  541. [6:45pm] grippi: duck1123: bingo
  542. [6:45pm] dns|CostaRica: its an idea we want to experiment with
  543. [6:45pm] msalzberg: ok so i fyou have diaspora running on your home devbox
  544. [6:45pm] dns|CostaRica: if we can have federation within a "pod"
  545. [6:46pm] dns|CostaRica: that means federation will have to be awesome
  546. [6:46pm] duck1123: at the end of the day, isn't that still essentially sharding?
  547. [6:46pm] str4ngerZ: msalzberg: what about your testscript? src?
  548. [6:46pm] msalzberg: my script makes two dbs, and starts two servers, two redis, and two workers
  549. [6:46pm] duck1123: I guess not
  550. [6:46pm] dns|CostaRica: duck1123: we don't want to shard on the db level, it will increase code complexity and only benefit big pods
  551. [6:46pm] msalzberg: str4ngerZ: its just a manual process right now
  552. [6:46pm] grippi: msalzberg: how much ram does that take (ballpark?)
  553. [6:46pm] msalzberg: but we could start it from a cucumber level or soethign
  554. [6:46pm] msalzberg: grippi: a crapload
  555. [6:46pm] msalzberg: simplest thing that works
  556. [6:46pm] dns|CostaRica: if we make it so that a pod works for a certain number of users, and their data can be moved around easily when a pod gets over worked
  557. [6:46pm] msalzberg: its by no means pretty, but now it is at least easy enough to set up
  558. [6:46pm] grippi: lemme start it on my box so we can get a ballpark number
  559. [6:47pm] grippi: what's the command to run it?
  560. [6:47pm] dns|CostaRica: federation and personal data ownership will benefit
  561. [6:47pm] msalzberg: and then send messages between them
  562. [6:47pm] grippi: 8gb of ram + ssd = the terminator
  563. [6:47pm] msalzberg:        http://groups.google.com/group/diaspora-dev/browse_thread/thread/a0777f10ba900272    
  564. [6:47pm] grippi: thx
  565. [6:47pm] msalzberg: grippi:^
  566. [6:48pm] erchache2000: I have a mysql server with 8 gb ram and send data to 60000 diary users without problems
  567. [6:48pm] grippi: internet here is really slow & i can't exactly search for things
  568. [6:48pm] dns|CostaRica: I keep wanting to rip my clothes off and jump into the pool, but then I realize that my family is here and they'd be freaked out. totally prude.
  569. [6:49pm] erchache2000: Should i see my.cnf file of joindiaspora mysql server?
  570. [6:49pm] dns|CostaRica: I wish I were in costa rica with californians...
  571. [6:49pm] dns|CostaRica: erchache2000 ec2
  572. [6:49pm] grippi: erchache2000: we're using amazon RDS
  573. [6:49pm] erchache2000: isnt problem
  574. [6:49pm] erchache2000: and you use mysql inside?
  575. [6:49pm] star_ left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
  576. [6:49pm] grippi: yeah
  577. [6:49pm] grippi: amazon configures mysql for you
  578. [6:49pm] dns|CostaRica: other pods use postgres
  579. [6:49pm] grippi: with RDS
  580. [6:49pm] Merle joined the chat room.
  581. [6:49pm] dns|CostaRica: which means we can't do db specific optimizations
  582. [6:50pm] duck1123: RDS acts like mysql
  583. [6:50pm] erchache2000: http://tools.percona.com/ see that
  584. [6:50pm] erchache2000: you can make you own my.cnf
  585. [6:50pm] dns|CostaRica: rds is mysql, it's a managed mysql box
  586. [6:50pm] dns|CostaRica: lets not get sidetracked
  587. [6:50pm] dns|CostaRica: what we're saying is
  588. [6:50pm] dns|CostaRica: there are problems with federation
  589. [6:50pm] erchache2000: its very usefull
  590. [6:50pm] msalzberg: yeah
  591. [6:50pm] msalzberg: so please
  592. [6:50pm] dns|CostaRica: plz stop talking about dbs kthnx
  593. [6:50pm] erchache2000: yeah
  594. [6:50pm] msalzberg: try to get the federation testing working
  595. [6:51pm] msalzberg: if you can
  596. [6:51pm] baaab joined the chat room.
  597. [6:51pm] dns|CostaRica: there are problems with federation, we want to fix them
  598. [6:51pm] dns|CostaRica: this will have a bunch of benefits
  599. [6:51pm] msalzberg: and lets improve it to make it easier to generate bug reports with logs from both side of the transation
  600. [6:51pm] dns|CostaRica: and should reduce the burden of running a pod
  601. [6:51pm] msalzberg: please direct questions or pro tips to the list
  602. [6:51pm] pilupetutti left the chat room.
  603. [6:51pm] dns|CostaRica: we're also talking about changing our growth model to be more in line with federation
  604. [6:51pm] msalzberg: as i am hoping this really simple improvement could spur a whole set up people helping us test
  605. [6:51pm] dns|CostaRica: things are going to change in a big way
  606. [6:52pm] msalzberg: ok
  607. [6:52pm] dns|CostaRica: we want to test it, and keep you guys with us through the process
  608. [6:52pm] msalzberg: any questions bout federation testing
  609. [6:52pm] Merle left the chat room. (Client Quit)
  610. [6:52pm] msalzberg: ...
  611. [6:52pm] msalzberg: ..
  612. [6:52pm] msalzberg: next
  613. [6:52pm] msalzberg: 4. Things we need help with:
  614. [6:52pm] raven24: so you are saying we should fire up the two test servers and go crazy, let stuff federate between them, then send you the logs
  615. [6:52pm] dns|CostaRica: backwards compatibility...
  616. [6:52pm] msalzberg: raven24: not just for kicks
  617. [6:52pm] msalzberg: but if you want to figure out
  618. [6:53pm] dns|CostaRica: we are planning on changing the federation model
  619. [6:53pm] msalzberg: why are public fotos not federating?
  620. [6:53pm] msalzberg: or something specific
  621. [6:53pm] msalzberg: or why is ignore user not ignoring remote people which have been ignored
  622. [6:53pm] msalzberg: stuff like that
  623. [6:53pm] raven24: understood
  624. [6:53pm] msalzberg: its hard to tell on production machines
  625. [6:53pm] dangar4l: johpunk: escriba
  626. [6:53pm] msalzberg: because the logs just fly by
  627. [6:53pm] grippi: msalzberg: booting federation testing in the meanwhile (fyi)
  628. [6:53pm] dns|CostaRica: there are problems with federation, we *need* to fix them before alpha
  629. [6:54pm] dns|CostaRica: err beta
  630. [6:54pm] msalzberg: yeah
  631. [6:54pm] msalzberg: so this means its going to fundamentally change
  632. [6:54pm] dns|CostaRica: backwards compatibility is not a major priority, so pods will have to upgrade to stay with us.
  633. [6:54pm] grippi: which means all major forks will break
  634. [6:54pm] msalzberg: and since we are alpha(duh), we are not going to support the current federation ssytem
  635. [6:54pm] dns|CostaRica: the goal of this is to make having your own pod even easier
  636. [6:54pm] zikalify left the chat room. (Quit: zikalify)
  637. [6:54pm] msalzberg: yeah so this doesn't mean its getting rolled out
  638. [6:54pm] msalzberg: tommorw
  639. [6:55pm] msalzberg: or next week
  640. [6:55pm] msalzberg: but soon
  641. [6:55pm] dns|CostaRica: after we announce beta, we won't be chaging things in such a major way.
  642. [6:55pm] stwf_: sounds good, make sure the system you go with is rock solid, nothing else is important!
  643. [6:55pm] msalzberg: just so people don't say "we had no idea!!!"
  644. [6:55pm] msalzberg: dns|CostaRica++
  645. [6:55pm] str4ngerZ: it would be nice to have eraly information and docu / branches on the changes
  646. [6:55pm] dns|CostaRica: str4ngerZ: thats what this is.
  647. [6:55pm] msalzberg: we code it all in the open
  648. [6:55pm] msalzberg: so until it settles down
  649. [6:55pm] dns|CostaRica: we're saying "we don't know, we're experimenting, as things are change we'll keep you up to date"
  650. [6:56pm] johpunk: dangar4l: ?
  651. [6:57pm] dns|CostaRica: mai interwedbs suck
  652. [6:57pm] duck1123: Are the federation changes listed anywhere?
  653. [6:57pm] zikalify joined the chat room.
  654. [6:57pm] dns|CostaRica: duck1123: they aren't done
  655. [6:57pm] dns|CostaRica: we're experimenting
  656. [6:57pm] dns|CostaRica: I'm in costa rica right now playing with some ideas
  657. [6:57pm] dns|CostaRica: "spiking"
  658. [6:57pm] dns|CostaRica: spiking is when you test an idea in the smallest way possible
  659. [6:57pm] dns|CostaRica: maybe not the cleanest way
  660. [6:58pm] dns|CostaRica: but its about proving the concept
  661. [6:58pm] dns|CostaRica: and then heading back to master
  662. [6:58pm] dns|CostaRica: and starting over and doing it right
  663. [6:58pm] dns|CostaRica: after the concept is proved internally we will alert people of our plans
  664. [6:58pm] msalzberg: i guess general themes, dns|CostaRica
  665. [6:58pm] msalzberg: like
  666. [6:58pm] msalzberg: json based
  667. [6:58pm] raven24: I'd love to see federation explained like sarah did on the devblog with webfinger, when it's finished
  668. [6:58pm] msalzberg: relying more heavily on the client
  669. [6:58pm] msalzberg: raven24: absolutely
  670. [6:59pm] msalzberg: how it is going to work is evolving
  671. [6:59pm] duck1123: Ok, I'm the developer of a federated social application, an I only have basic integration with diaspora working thus far. Want to make sure I stay as compatible as possible
  672. [6:59pm] dns|CostaRica: right now a pod has to keep track of every communication it is aware of
  673. [6:59pm] msalzberg: duck1123: cool!
  674. [6:59pm] str4ngerZ: i'd like to get to know if **before** it's officially invented
  675. [6:59pm] dns|CostaRica: which means jd/diasp.org esssentially have copies of each others datasets
  676. [6:59pm] necromancer: msalzberg: our eventual goal is to make the Rails app essentially be an API for the browser-side JS client to talk to
  677. [6:59pm] dns|CostaRica: we want to change that, to make it so that jd asks diap.org for what it needs to know more often
  678. [6:59pm] str4ngerZ: s/if/it/
  679. [7:00pm] necromancer: right?
  680. [7:00pm] dns|CostaRica: and doesn't try to persist that.
  681. [7:00pm] dns|CostaRica: or maybe chaches it temporarily
  682. [7:00pm] msalzberg: necromancer: we are already mostly there
  683. [7:00pm] msalzberg: with the backbone stuff
  684. [7:00pm] necromancer: yeah
  685. [7:00pm] arcticmonkey joined the chat room.
  686. [7:00pm] msalzberg: for the most part, most of the stuff is a js client talking to a server that emits json
  687. [7:00pm] dns|CostaRica: but your own pod stays the canonical source of your data
  688. [7:00pm] sarahmei left the chat room. (Quit: Quit)
  689. [7:00pm] dns|CostaRica: which means more ownership of your data
  690. [7:00pm] necromancer: right
  691. [7:00pm] raven24: would that also solve the "history problem" of a pod not getting any data, when it's down?
  692. [7:00pm] dns|CostaRica: our current federation system has major personal data ownership problems
  693. [7:01pm] msalzberg: yeah
  694. [7:01pm] dns|CostaRica: we we want to bring these things in line
  695. [7:01pm] dns|CostaRica: so instead of every pod storing everything
  696. [7:01pm] dns|CostaRica: we want to have it be more of a system of asking for what you need to know more often.
  697. [7:02pm] dns|CostaRica: this will make it so users have more control. which is a good thing.
  698. [7:02pm] dns|CostaRica: .....
  699. [7:02pm] msalzberg: ok
  700. [7:02pm] dns|CostaRica: SO...
  701. [7:02pm] duck1123: so this interface would be made available to end users as well?
  702. [7:02pm] donnerdrummel left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  703. [7:03pm] AsAck joined the chat room.
  704. [7:03pm] msalzberg: what do you mean?
  705. [7:03pm] msalzberg: i want to keep moving
  706. [7:03pm] msalzberg: as we are going to go over
  707. [7:03pm] dns|CostaRica: duck1123 it will be open.
  708. [7:03pm] necromancer: duck1123: yes
  709. [7:03pm] msalzberg: other things that we need help with
  710. [7:03pm] dns|CostaRica: so
  711. [7:03pm] necromancer: the short answer
  712. [7:03pm] msalzberg: the wiki is crazy sauce right now
  713. [7:03pm] dns|CostaRica: we need help with the wiki!
  714. [7:03pm] duck1123: ok
  715. [7:03pm] msalzberg: there is lots of stuff
  716. [7:03pm] msalzberg: we need to delete honestly
  717. [7:03pm] dns|CostaRica: our wiki is tragically out of data
  718. [7:03pm] msalzberg: its usefull
  719. [7:03pm] dns|CostaRica: and has too much
  720. [7:03pm] msalzberg: but it needs to be more straightforward
  721. [7:04pm] dns|CostaRica: if you see a bad page in the wiki, kill it.
  722. [7:04pm] msalzberg: and geared more towards developers
  723. [7:04pm] dns|CostaRica: if you see old info, remove it.
  724. [7:04pm] msalzberg: getting it running
  725. [7:04pm] grippi: let's make a wiki (seriously) identifying the strengths and weaknesses of our wikis
  726. [7:04pm] grippi: so we can cut out the excess
  727. [7:04pm] msalzberg:                          
  728. [7:04pm] grippi: and provide devs with the stuff they want
  729. [7:04pm] dns|CostaRica: the smaller the wiki is, the less maintenance we'll have to do, the more we can stay on top of it, the more true it will be
  730. [7:04pm] necromancer: grippi: how about we create a to-do list instead?
  731. [7:04pm] dns|CostaRica: it has swelled to a place where it is full of information that is no longer true.
  732. [7:04pm] msalzberg: can't we just make a page
  733. [7:04pm] grippi: necromancer: how about yes
  734. [7:04pm] msalzberg: no new services!
  735. [7:04pm] grippi: i'm open to whatever
  736. [7:04pm] duck1123: grippi: but that page itself would likely not make the cut
  737. [7:05pm] msalzberg:                          
  738. [7:05pm] grippi: as long as it involves identifying dev wants and needs
  739. [7:05pm] necromancer: lol
  740. [7:05pm] donnerdrummel joined the chat room.
  741. [7:05pm] dns|CostaRica: a todo list page on the wiki
  742. [7:05pm] msalzberg: yeah its not the place for feature requests
  743. [7:05pm] msalzberg: from users
  744. [7:05pm] necromancer: ahh never mind guys i thought tadalist.com was collaborative
  745. [7:05pm] msalzberg: but feature requests from developers
  746. [7:05pm] necromancer: "feature requests from developers" should never happen. if you're a developer, fucking code the feature and submit a pull req
  747. [7:05pm] msalzberg: we need to come up with an outline for it all
  748. [7:06pm] msalzberg: necromancer: in a perfect world, yes
  749. [7:06pm] dns|CostaRica: github needs to be more about making it so diaspora developers can work efficiently
  750. [7:06pm] Johannes__ joined the chat room.
  751. [7:06pm] dns|CostaRica: github is for developers.
  752. [7:06pm] msalzberg: yeah
  753. [7:06pm] msalzberg: ok so also
  754. [7:06pm] msalzberg: i was wondering
  755. [7:06pm] dns|CostaRica: yes!
  756. [7:06pm] msalzberg: can a newbie developer
  757. [7:06pm] msalzberg: make  a vid or detailed blog post
  758. [7:06pm] grippi: heads up: i'm switching to tethering... brb linux
  759. [7:06pm] msalzberg: on how to submit a bug?
  760. [7:06pm] sonst-was is now known as sonst-wafk.
  761. [7:06pm] msalzberg: raven24: maybe?
  762. [7:07pm] msalzberg: it would be cool to have a guide from a contributor
  763. [7:07pm] msalzberg: outlining the process
  764. [7:07pm] msalzberg: or even like
  765. [7:07pm] msalzberg: a vid on
  766. [7:07pm] ktf joined the chat room.
  767. [7:07pm] jaywink left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  768. [7:07pm] msalzberg: "how to write a jasmine test"
  769. [7:07pm] msalzberg: or something of that nature?
  770. [7:07pm] msalzberg: raven24? stwf_? diasp ?
  771. [7:07pm] Kevin_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  772. [7:07pm] raven24: ok I see where this is going
  773. [7:07pm] arcticmonkey left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  774. [7:08pm] msalzberg: you say that so ominously
  775. [7:08pm] raven24: might be able to do a little bit in febuary
  776. [7:08pm] msalzberg: it is feburary!
  777. [7:08pm] necromancer: i'd like to volunteer to clean up the wiki
  778. [7:08pm] raven24: in march my semester starts again...
  779. [7:08pm] msalzberg: raven24: ah i see
  780. [7:08pm] msalzberg: necromancer: that would be awesome
  781. [7:08pm] dns|CostaRica: necromancer: great thanks!
  782. [7:08pm] dns|CostaRica: enlist help!
  783. [7:08pm] msalzberg: it just needs to be much leaner and meaner
  784. [7:08pm] mathis_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  785. [7:08pm] Johannes___ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  786. [7:08pm] ktr_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  787. [7:08pm] msalzberg: we should brainstorm a general outline
  788. [7:08pm] msalzberg: and then go from there
  789. [7:09pm] necromancer: right
  790. [7:09pm] raven24: do you know the railscast vids?
  791. [7:09pm] raven24: like those?
  792. [7:09pm] msalzberg: raven24: yessir
  793. [7:09pm] jjoe left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  794. [7:09pm] msalzberg: they don't even have to be as fancy
  795. [7:09pm] str4ngerZ: before leaner and meaner it should be correct and complete
  796. [7:09pm] msalzberg: but they are a good start
  797. [7:09pm] msalzberg: yeah
  798. [7:09pm] baaab left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  799. [7:09pm] dns|CostaRica: raven24 thanks for all your work reaching out to n00bs, it's really helping
  800. [7:09pm] msalzberg: i also do want to focus on perhaps only having detailed instructions on the wiki for certain platforms
  801. [7:10pm] dns|CostaRica: and a major shoutout to rekado for that as well
  802. [7:10pm] dns|CostaRica: it's really necessary to have people doing that in the community.
  803. [7:10pm] dns|CostaRica: so thank you.
  804. [7:10pm] msalzberg: id rather support a couple of things really well than have instructions for 500 different setups
  805. [7:10pm] jaywink joined the chat room.
  806. [7:10pm] raven24: I once was a noob, too
  807. [7:10pm] msalzberg: something like osx, ubuntu and vagrant/virtualbox
  808. [7:10pm] str4ngerZ: you cannot copy&paste from a video
  809. [7:10pm] msalzberg: then people could publish other guides elsewhere
  810. [7:10pm] raven24: so I know how good it feels getting helped
  811. [7:10pm] grippi left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  812. [7:11pm] msalzberg: str4ngerZ: well we can do an ascii cast too
  813. [7:11pm] dns|CostaRica: telling windows people they have to run it in vagrant would remove a bunch of concerns…
  814. [7:11pm] msalzberg: yeah
  815. [7:11pm] str4ngerZ: videso would be great for beginners to explain the interface and options
  816. [7:11pm] msalzberg: i would be down only supporting 3 configurations for now
  817. [7:11pm] raven24: transcribing the commands used in a video is not the great problem
  818. [7:11pm] mathis joined the chat room.
  819. [7:12pm] msalzberg: again, i want to focus on developer resources right now
  820. [7:12pm] donnerdrummel left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  821. [7:12pm] dns|CostaRica: and enabling developers to be effective
  822. [7:12pm] msalzberg: when we are beta, we can focus on our friendliness in setup
  823. [7:12pm] msalzberg: yeah
  824. [7:12pm] msalzberg: re: users
  825. [7:12pm] msalzberg: ok
  826. [7:12pm] msalzberg: so thats basically it, does anyone have any questions?
  827. [7:13pm] dns|CostaRica: ok
  828. [7:13pm] msalzberg: ...
  829. [7:13pm] str4ngerZ: yeah: what resources
  830. [7:13pm] msalzberg: can someone post this transcript on the wiki?
  831. [7:13pm] DeadSuperHero: I'll do it.
  832. [7:13pm] msalzberg: thx
  833. [7:13pm] msalzberg: str4ngerZ: ?
  834. [7:13pm] str4ngerZ: to use when one want to stay updated
  835. [7:13pm] str4ngerZ: with the latest development?
  836. [7:14pm] msalzberg: i would follow the project on github
  837. [7:14pm] str4ngerZ: msalzberg: wanted to break your ... .. .
  838. [7:14pm] msalzberg: subscribe to our devblog
  839. [7:14pm] msalzberg: its all good!
  840. [7:14pm] necromancer: also the diaspora-dev email list
  841. [7:14pm] Kevin_ joined the chat room.
  842. [7:14pm] msalzberg: bam! yes
  843. [7:14pm] msalzberg: also, come hang out on diaspora-dev
  844. [7:14pm] ktf left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
  845. [7:14pm] donnerdrummel joined the chat room.
  846. [7:14pm] grippi joined the chat room.
  847. [7:14pm] msalzberg: the pushes come into the room via bot
  848. [7:15pm] msalzberg: and we get a decent bit of banter around interesting ones
  849. [7:15pm] grippi: sry... iPhone tethering doesn't allow irc for some reason
  850. [7:15pm] str4ngerZ: dont use mucho google
  851. [7:15pm] rog joined the chat room.
  852. [7:15pm] dns|CostaRica: any other questions?
  853. [7:15pm] raven24: noe
  854. [7:15pm] raven24: *one
  855. [7:16pm] raven24: will this IRC session be weekly/monthly/otherly
  856. [7:16pm] grippi: i gotta jet
  857. [7:16pm] grippi: pleasure talking with all of you
  858. [7:16pm] msalzberg: we are shooting
  859. [7:16pm] msalzberg: for every 2 weeks
  860. [7:16pm] grippi: see on you on the interwebs!
  861. [7:16pm] grippi: ciao
  862. [7:16pm] grippi left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection)
  863. [7:16pm] msalzberg: so every other thursday
  864. [7:16pm] raven24: ok great!
  865. [7:16pm] DeadSuperHero: We'll always announce it ahead of time.
  866. [7:16pm] msalzberg: promise
  867. [7:16pm] msalzberg: we had a great turnout too
  868. [7:17pm] DeadSuperHero: Yeah totally.
  869. [7:17pm] dns|CostaRica: DeadSuperHero: burden's on you
  870. [7:17pm] msalzberg: although so many of you are LURKERS
  871. [7:17pm] jaywink: a good idea this. have been silent but following
  872. [7:17pm] msalzberg: DAMN U LURKERS
  873. [7:17pm] dns|CostaRica: hella Lurkey
  874. [7:17pm] DeadSuperHero: dns|CostaRica, I knoes.
  875. [7:17pm] dns|CostaRica: blessings to the LURKERS
  876. [7:17pm] duck1123: this is the first one I've shown up to
  877. [7:17pm] rog left the chat room. (Client Quit)
  878. [7:18pm] msalzberg: ok time for me to go code awesome shit
  879. [7:18pm] msalzberg: ill talk to all you lovelies l8r
  880. [7:18pm] sonst-wafk: Good luck
  881. [7:18pm] DeadSuperHero: Good meeting, everybody.
  882. [7:18pm] raven24: <3
  883. [7:18pm] msalzberg: dns|CostaRica: catch a tropical fish in your mouth for me
  884. [7:18pm] jaywink: thanks guys
  885. [7:18pm] msalzberg: PEACE
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