mongo` run Bartertown

@mongo`
13:26 < NalaniEke> frotz: it appears there is evidence that Trump won a majority of people with college
                   degrees
13:26 < NalaniEke> Let me double check that.
and when we double checked that we found it was....incorrect?
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NalaniEke
http://pastebin.com/snMQkvFg
Ignoring mongo`!*@*
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mongo`'s lack of emotion management, dislike of free speech - Pastebin.com
Fearful
where's gnar?
<AlfrGunna> See, Declaration of Independence.
declaration of independence is a law?
NalaniEke
Fearful: did you read the entire conversation?
Fearful
I didn't know it was a legal document.
NalaniEke
I never asserted it was law. Read precisely.
mongo`: Jumped to law because he's a stage-four Kohlberger.
And so when I asserted, unqualified, that all humans are born with US Constitutional rights, he asked, What law?
Fearful
<Gnar> foreigners shouldnt get constitutional protections
even if they don't get us constitutional protection... there are still rights that the un grants
NalaniEke
All humans are born with US Constitutional rights according to the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America, and the UN Declaration of Human Rights.
Fearful
plus, I think the constitution should apply to prisoners domestic or foreign lands to apply
NalaniEke
SCOTUS ruled that all US agents carry with them the US Constitution everywhere they go.
Fearful
I mean if they're under our control such as us holding them
NalaniEke
So, yes, all prisoners of the US system have Constitutional rights, according to SCOTUS.
Fearful
then it should apply to them.
NalaniEke: it doesn't apply to gitmo
NalaniEke
Please dereference 'it'.
Fearful
NalaniEke: prisoners in gitmo aren't getting human rights
they can't even get access to a lawyer
they can't get access to the evidenceused against them
NalaniEke
Prisoners at Gitmo are getting a subset of human rights.
But, they are not getting all of them, agreed.
Fearful
how? they can't even challenge it.
they get assigned a lawyer that can't visit them, can't see the evidence, or any of it
it's national security and remains classified
NalaniEke
It's a travesty.
And an external manifestation of the brokenness of America.
Fearful
where's gnar
was he here?
NalaniEke
Fearful: who run #obama?
Fearful
it's mongo`'s channel
NalaniEke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgq4w4dqKsU
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who run barter town - YouTube
NalaniEke
Wrong.
Fearful
who's is it then?
I know trump is his
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mongo`'s lack of emotion management, dislike of free speech - Pastebin.com
NalaniEke
Masterblaster run #obama, Fearful.
Fearful
what if mongo` is masterblaster
× You have been kicked by mongo` (evil is as evil does)
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NalaniEke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsgP8LkEopM
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Nahko Bear (Medicine for the People) ღ Aloha Ke Akua - YouTube
Fearful
where's him calling people fake news
@Joey
he still sort of doesn't get the issue of climate change....donald thinks there some sort of balance between economic growth and death from the environment
NalaniEke
mongo` highly values free speech. And he has the best emotion management. Period.
@lednerk
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C20L99dUoAA_o4R.jpg
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Picture
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@Joey
lovely
this sounds oh so reasonable until you can't breathe [11:30am] <@Joey> he still sort of doesn't get the issue of climate change....donald thinks there some sort of balance between economic growth and death from the environment
hey fuckface temps aren't going down fuckface!
Fearful
mongo` is the channel's tyrant
he doesn't grant us a fair trial
lol
NalaniEke
Fearful: would you believe it if you knew what you were for?
@han``
send mongo to the dome
NalaniEke
And how you became so informed.
A body of info, performing such miracles.
Fearful: do you think Aristotle is smart?
Fearful
NalaniEke: aristotle is dead
was he intelligent? I guess so.
NalaniEke
"I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without command that which others do only through fear of the law" - Aristotle
Fearful
he was still kooky in some areas.
NalaniEke
I consider it a red flag when somebody asks me what law makes something important to follow.
Laws represent social consensus in a region.
That's it.
Fearful: do you think Kohlberg had any insights into meta-ethics?
In Stage six (universal ethical principles driven), moral reasoning is based on abstract reasoning using universal ethical principles. Laws are valid only insofar as they are grounded in justice, and a commitment to justice carries with it an obligation to disobey unjust laws. Legal rights are unnecessary, as social contracts are not essential for deontic moral action. Decisions are not reached hypothetically in a conditional way but rather categorically in an absolute way, as in the philosophy of Immanuel Kant.[18] This involves an individual imagining what they would do in another’s shoes, if they believed what that other person imagines to be true.[19] The resulting consensus is the action taken. In this way action is never a means but always an end in itself; the individual acts because it is right, and not because it avoids punishment, is in their best interest, expected, legal, or previously agreed upon. Although Kohlberg insisted that stage six exists, he found it difficult to identify individuals who consistently operated at that level.[15]
Let's deconstruct that, Fearful.
"legal rights are unnecessary"
← rockthec has quit (Quit: <steve> Yup, I'll give #efnet ops to anyone who ddoses #politics ops/bots long term. fuck them.)
NalaniEke
Do you understand what they mean by "social contracts are not essential for deontic moral actions"?
Fearful
why would I care what aristotle says?
in regards to law
NalaniEke
I am not discussing the law.
I am discussing the philosophy/sociology of the law.
Fearful: are you familiar with superrationality?
Fearful
why would I care about the sociology about the law?
@Joey
heh superrationality....
Fearful
stupid lag
NalaniEke
Why should you care about anything?
@Joey
why just more rationality?
Fearful
I've read some of his writings, but not the republic.
NalaniEke
Rationality is causality based.
@Joey
why not?
NalaniEke
Superrationality is acausal.
@Joey
lol
Fearful
Joey: just never could get into it
NalaniEke
That's what the prefix super- means in this context.
@Joey
heh it's raindonna this is to be expected guys
Ignoring Joey!*@*
Fearful
NalaniEke: sociology or aristotle doesn't impact what the law is today
NalaniEke
You can always except genius level intellect from me combined with an MLK like commitment to universal justice. Agreed.
Fearful: it does.
Fearful
i disagree.
NalaniEke
But, you're not addressing my questions.
Fearful: have you read the Roe v. Wade decision?
Fearful
I've read some about it, not much.
NalaniEke
Justice Blackmun explicitly, and repeatedly, references multiple cultural systems.
He discusses Greek thought in Egypt in 250 CE.
He discusses Islam in the 800s.
He shows that the notion that life begins at conception is an explicitly Christian notion.
Fearful
which is useless. a woman has the right to an abortion no matter what supreme court justices say
NalaniEke
Fearful: do you see what you just did there?
Fearful
imposing constitution on a fetus is a violation on the mother's rights
NalaniEke
You asserted women have a right independent of the Supreme Court.
Which was my perspective your were criticizing a few minutes ago.
When I was referencing superrationality and sociology/philosophy of the law.
Fearful
it's common sense, it doesn't require referring the greeks at all.
NalaniEke
But, then you said you only care about the content of the law.
And the specific reasoning of Blackmun is a major component of the law in America on the topic of abortion.
Fearful: I fear you're not keeping up.
And that's disappointing for me.
Fearful
heh
NalaniEke
Because I thrive in intellectual conversation.
Fearful
I don't care if supreme court jsutices brings up 2000 year old history
NalaniEke
Fearful: no, common sense is insufficient.
One, common sense is not a sufficient basis for legal decision in a diverse cultural system.
Two, philosophers have been debating what common sense might mean for at least 2500 years.
And it's complex.
Fearful
lol
eh
NalaniEke
Fearful: I am not trying to be superior to you.
My posts that look like that are not me doing that.
They are me giving my honest assessment.
You will always have my faithful intentions.
As I am superrational.
Let's go into what superrational is.
And why deonitic action doesn't require social contracts.
Fearful
NalaniEke are you like narcissus?
NalaniEke
https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Acausal_trade
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Acausal trade - Lesswrongwiki
NalaniEke
Fearful:  you are signaling I have excessively exceeded your cognitive level
And you're returning to a series of emotional responses and social leveling programs
Which is where our species returns when it doesn't know what to do
"lol", "heh", assuming bad intent in your 'opponent'
Fearful
you said you're the superrational
NalaniEke
Correct.
Fearful
sounds like narcissism
NalaniEke
I am often superrational, except when my brain isn't performing well.
× You have been kicked by mongo` (dissing fearful is unkind)
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NalaniEke
Due to fatigue, hunger, emotion, etc.
Fearful
he s hould read up on who narcissus was
:\
NalaniEke
Fearful: do you agree that is a statement about my intentionality?
For which we cannot get winning data either for or against your proposition.
Fearful
it isn't jsut you..
NalaniEke
And so we'll have to resort to whether or not you trust me or your own assessments.
Fearful
it applies to most people.
NalaniEke
Please dereference 'it'.
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Fearful
um... people
NalaniEke
People applies to most people.
Fearful
pretty sure it applies to everybody.
Ignoring Fearful!*@*
NalaniEke
Fearful: you're not currently in an cognitive state to learn from me
And so I have let go of communicating with you at this time
I will be open to trying again
ⓘ mongo` set mode +b *!*62fc5f09@*.hsd1.ca.comcast.net
× You have been kicked by mongo` (do you think Kierkegaarde would be proud of what you are soing here?)