[QUOTE="Roland le preaux, post: 8072337, member: 462475"]

2) "Phazing moves do not need STAB to be effective" -- I don't think we've really seen many mons that actualize the concept of effective phazer, regardless of the tier. But one of the scariest phazers I think I've faced is Circle Throw Poliwrath in PU, precisely because it is able to deal decent damage while denying set-up opportunities and attempted switch-ins.

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I mean you said it yourself here:



[QUOTE="Roland le preaux, post: 8072337, member: 462475"]

Since Slowbro and Slowking have already demonstrated the potency of using phasing moves in conjunction with delayed-damage moves, I think it is a route worth exploring, albeit late in the stage to do so.

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If the potency of using a phazing move + delayed attacking move is already confirmed to be good without STAB with Assault Vest Slowking, how can you deny that "phazing moves do not need STAB to be effective?" The extra chip damage, while useful, isn't as meaningful as dragging out the opponent's Fairy-type into the incoming Doom Desire. STAB on the phazing move is absolutely not required to be used effectively.



[QUOTE="Roland le preaux, post: 8072337, member: 462475"]

3) "A Steel/Dragon wouldn't be an effective answer to Tapu Lele" -- This one is the most relevant criticism to me, although I think we are going to struggle to make a Steel-type mon that does a better job than Magearna, Jirachi, Celesteela, defensive Kitsunoh, or Ferrothorn at checking Tapu Lele. Most of the relevant Steels in the tier are specially-defensive powerhouses designed to take on Pyschic spam, and I'm not sure that's a role in which we have to outperform other Steels in order to establish a niche for CAP 25. We will have a lot of room in the Ability stage to give CAP 26 defensive tools that other Steel-types might lack, such as resistances/immunities to certain attacking types, hazards, or status effects, that could compliment Dragon's strength as a secondary typing.

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Even if we give it defensive tools that Steel-types might lack, a Doom Desire using Steel / Dragon just can't hits Tapu Lele super-effectively easily and immediately. This means that after CAP26's first two moveslots, Doom Desire / powerful Dragon-type STAB, you still don't have a move that can immediately. Meaning you have to run a) Steelium Z, b) a secondary Steel-type move, c) a Ghost-type or a Poison-type coverage move. While this is certainly possible, it constrains what CAP26 can reasonably achieve, especially when compared to some of the other prominent typings in this thread, whose secondary STAB can hit Tapu Lele for neutral damage. Keep in mind that competition for the team's Z-Crystal is very high in CAP right now, with many potent threats like Magearna, Tornadus-T, Tapu Lele, Landorus-T, Garchomp, Heatran, Aurumoth, Volcarona, and Pajantom all wanting the teams Z-Crystal, so relying on Steelium Z would be rather subpar. If you also want to run the STAB phazing move, then your moveset is Doom Desire / powerful Dragon-type STAB / phazing move / move to hit Tapu Lele - and that's your moveset, with no option of recovery barring one specific ability.



Finally, yes, there is an ability that blocks Focus Blast, but no ability can block Moonblast or All-Out Pummeling. I'd like to supply Tapu Lele vs Dialga calcs, as Dialga has decent 100 HP / 100 SpD. The more CAP26 invests into Special Defense, the weaker its Doom Desires get so, at this point, I want to assume that it's going to have a generic 252 HP / 0 SpD EV spread.



252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 232-274 (57.4 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 232-274 (57.4 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 414-488 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO



Tapu Lele analysis



While unboosted this isn't a 2HKO, a guaranteed 3HKO from Moonblast on a Steel-type just isn't that great, and then factor in Calm Mind (which most commonly run Fightinium Z) and Choice Specs sets, and you've got a Steel-type that cannot check the primary target of what Steel-types need to check not only in the current metagame but for all of Generation 7. A Steel-type that also has to run an awkward coverage move or Z-Crystal specifically for that primary target, too.