Madonna and the Breakfast Club (2019)

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- Ooh, ooh.

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- We'll breathe deep.

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- Yeah.

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- 'Cause you have
       to breathe deep

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before you do anything.

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- On August 16, 1958,

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Silvio Ciccone drove
      his wife Madonna

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to Mercy Hospital in
      Bay City, Michigan

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to give birth to
     their first daughter,

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a child who would be
    named after her mother,

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and who would become
    one of the biggest stars

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in entertainment that
   the world has ever known.

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Madonna was raised in this
ranch home in Pontiac, Michigan.

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The Ciccones already
      had two children

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before Madonna arrived,
    and they would have

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two more children after her.

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Madonna's mother
     became seriously ill,

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and spending time with
    her children became more

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and more of a struggle

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until she eventually
      passed away.

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Madonna was just five years old.

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Raising five children on his
  own wasn't easy for Silvio.

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While he was at work, Madonna
 and her siblings spent a lot

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of time at this Bay City
   home of their grandmother

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and at this very park
  directly across the street.

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When Madonna was an
  adolescent, the family moved

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to a more affluent neighborhood
in Rochester, Michigan.

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It was here in this building
  on Main Street that Madonna,

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as an early teen,
     entered ballet school.

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The teacher, Christopher
Flynn, took a liking to Madonna

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and they developed a friendship.

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He mentored her and taught
   her about art and culture

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outside of suburban Michigan.

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He also convinced her
     that she was special

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and that she was beautiful,
  words she wasn't used to,

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and words that she
       needed to hear.

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Christopher became
       a dance teacher

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at the University of Michigan
 and convinced Madonna

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to apply for a scholarship.

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It was here that Madonna
  met a graduate dance student

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named Peter Kentes.

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- The dance program at
   the University of Michigan

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at the time was a
     conservatory approach.

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There were only about
     50 dance majors total

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between undergraduates
     and graduates.

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The first time I actually saw
 her was in the dance lounge

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where the dancers would
   hang out between classes.

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What stood out to me was
  the fact that there she was.

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Everyone else was sort of
   sitting around relaxing

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and she was workin' hard.

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- For his
 graduating thesis project,

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Peter included his new friend
 Madonna in the choreography.

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- Madonna's character
     was very specific.

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Her character was
     based on the customers

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that came into this liquor
   store late at night.

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So, she was able to take that
 as a theme and develop that.

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Sorta spicy, sort of very
similar to her own personality.

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I think it was easier for
   her to get in character,

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and she added
      spice to the dance.

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The pictures I took a few weeks

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before the show one afternoon,

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and I did all the dancers
   at different times,

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but the one photo that Madonna
 maybe wasn't happiest about

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was where she's bending over
  looking between her legs,

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but I think the reason is
   because during her solo

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I accidentally let
       that one stay up

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on the wall a
      little bit too long.

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- Peter was
  very into astrology

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and predictions based
     upon birth dates

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and how the moon, sun,
     and stars are aligned.

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- These two.

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- Yeah, I was a self
      taught astrologer.

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I have maybe 30 or 40
     books that I purchased

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and read and studied.

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One of the things
       I enjoyed doing

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was doing charts for
     people, birth charts.

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I was never a person that
 sort of like read my horoscope

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and not go out that day, but
  when I did Madonna's chart,

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- And you can see the full--
  - and I had done maybe

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over a hundred readings for
  friends up to this time,

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but this was the first
     one where the reading,

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everything sort of came out

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she was gonna be
        rich and famous.

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- It's gonna be such
     a crazy ride for you.

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- Here I was looking
    at a skinny 18 year-old

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with bruised up legs
     and red plastic shoes,

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and there couldn't have been
  a more unlikely candidate

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to be rich and famous than
   Madonna when she was 18.

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Except in her mind, I think
  that was her plan all along

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because she didn't seem
   surprised when I told her.

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- I've
 never seen it do that.

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- I hadn't heard from
   Madonna for a few months.

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School had started, and
    she had not enrolled.

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I got a call saying she
  needed a ride to the airport

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and I said, yeah, sure.

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And I went, picked her up.

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She had her little
      doll under her arm,

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a little backpack,
       and a suitcase,

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and Christopher, her ballet
  teacher, was there as well.

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We piled in the car, and we
 took her to the Metro Airport,

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Detroit Metro Airport
     and dropped her off.

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She was ready to leave.

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She was ready to move on.

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She wanted to go.

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She wanted to go to New York.

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She was excited to be going.

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It was a little trepidatious

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because it's such a scary thing.

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- Immediately
 upon arrival,

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Madonna began taking dance
   classes with Pearl Lang

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and other notable teachers.

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She was prepared to
      do whatever it took

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to become a professional dancer.

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- I met Madonna.

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I had a lot of friends over
  the years who were dancers.

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Yeah, dancers,
       actors, musicians.

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I had a really good friend
named Michael who was a dancer,

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and he was studying with
   someone named Pearl Lang,

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who was an avant garde dancer.

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So, I was invited to a party,
 and people were dancing

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on the living room floor,
   and I noticed this woman

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who was dancing, spinning
  in the middle of the floor,

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and it looked as though she
 was dancing in a ring of fire,

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and everyone was
       moving around her.

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I had a sense that
       she was somebody

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who was gonna do
    something in the world.

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She kinda came up to me
   and said, "Oh, nice arms.

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"You kinda look like
     Brando a little bit."

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That was kind of her lead in.

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So, I got the sense that
    that might go somewhere.

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She called me up the next day.

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She was over at Michael's house.

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They had--
           - Hello?

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- It seemed like they
     had a thing going,

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but she called me
       up from his house

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and said, "Get your gorgeous
  Brando body over here,"

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which was a nice,
   definitely a nice come on.

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- Well, good morning.

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- Yeah, so
  are you coming or not?

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- I said, why don't you
    guys come over here?

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I don't know why I suggested
  they come to my place.

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- All right, so I'll see you--

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- Bye.

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- But it didn't really
   go any further than that.

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She had to go to dance class.

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I got the feeling that she
 was very committed to dancing.

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Seemed like she was always
   off going somewhere,

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had something to do with
    dancing or performance.

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Working really, really hard,
 almost like obsessively hard,

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and I know she was
      doing the modeling.

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I know she was
   waitressing a little bit,

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but I got the feeling that she
 didn't have a lot of money.

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- Oh God, I don't wanna be this.

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- Yeah, but then you say
   - Why would you want this?

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- to yourself, man,
     look at what I can do,

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that other people, they
    wouldn't think of doin'.

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- I mean, I guess, but--
  - I know, I know part of it

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has to do with your head, right?

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I know that it's
     true, but other people

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wouldn't think of doing
  the stuff that I do or you.

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- Well, of course not,
   but people always look at,

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they always look at you before
 they look at what you do.

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- To make ends
 meet, Madonna began working

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as a model for nude
      photography classes

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at The New School and other
  locations in New York City.

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- My first session with Madonna
was in 1979 in February,

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and I think, if I
      recall, I had spoken

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to the model registrar,
    and I said look,

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can you send me a girl who
 really has a really nice body?

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And that's how I got
   Madonna to come to class,

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and I was very
      pleased, obviously.

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To me, she was very
      beautiful and pretty

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and had a fantastic body,
   and that's the first time.

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I always said,
      look, for the guys,

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get your dick out of
    your brain or something.

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This is not about sex,
     it's about sculpture.

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It's about a body.

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It's about what you
      can show with it.

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And then I put the model
    in different positions

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to accentuate form.

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My photographs were
      very sculptural,

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there was nothing
       about sex in them.

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That's how I see it.

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I didn't get the impression
  she enjoyed it, necessarily.

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It was something to
     do to make some money.

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It's just here I am.

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I'm naked, I'm nude.

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Take your pictures of
   me, and let me outta here

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00:12:09,129 --> 00:12:13,665
and get me paid,
  you know?

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00:12:18,672 --> 00:12:21,039
- We liked to hang out
    on the Upper West Side,

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like up near Grant's
     Tomb, areas like that.

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There were Corinthian columns,

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buildings that had classical
  Greco-Roman architecture.

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We liked each other a
   lot, and we were attracted

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to each other, but I
    don't know if there was

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any potential for a
    long term deeper thing.

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So, we basically drifted apart

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00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:47,298
over the period of about
 three months we were together.

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00:12:49,536 --> 00:12:52,871
I hadn't seen her
      for several months,

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and I bumped into
      her on 34th Street.

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00:12:56,910 --> 00:12:57,809
- N.B.!

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00:13:04,384 --> 00:13:05,433
Norris!

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00:13:05,434 --> 00:13:06,483
- And, just bumped
    into her on the street,

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00:13:06,486 --> 00:13:07,786
and I say, hey, how
      ya doin', Madonna?

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00:13:07,788 --> 00:13:09,020
Nice to see you.

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00:13:09,022 --> 00:13:11,389
And she was really
     warm and affectionate,

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00:13:11,391 --> 00:13:13,691
and we talked a little bit.

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00:13:14,928 --> 00:13:16,294
- I quit dancing.

209
00:13:17,264 --> 00:13:18,363
- Wait, what?

210
00:13:18,365 --> 00:13:19,831
What do you mean, you quit?

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00:13:19,833 --> 00:13:23,034
I thought that was the
  whole reason you came here.

212
00:13:23,036 --> 00:13:24,369
- She said, "Well, ya
     know, I just felt like

213
00:13:24,371 --> 00:13:26,471
"it wasn't going anywhere.

214
00:13:26,473 --> 00:13:29,374
"Also, I felt like
     my body was hurting,"

215
00:13:29,376 --> 00:13:32,277
and I realized
       that, she realized

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that this would be her life.

217
00:13:35,582 --> 00:13:36,981
- So, now what?

218
00:13:36,983 --> 00:13:39,651
Now what are you gonna do?

219
00:13:39,653 --> 00:13:41,719
- Maybe acting or music?

220
00:13:42,823 --> 00:13:44,689
- So, I invited
       her to this party.

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00:13:44,691 --> 00:13:47,525
I said I think you might
  meet some fun people there,

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00:13:47,527 --> 00:13:49,961
some interesting, there's
   gonna be a lot of artists,

223
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musicians, colorful,
      your type of people.

224
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I think you might dig,
   you might enjoy the scene.

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00:13:57,604 --> 00:13:59,370
So, she said, "Yeah,
     sure, I'll be there."

226
00:14:00,273 --> 00:14:02,240
Lo and behold, she was.

227
00:14:05,278 --> 00:14:06,778
- I first met Madonna at a party

228
00:14:06,780 --> 00:14:09,848
given by my friend
       Norris Burroughs.

229
00:14:11,151 --> 00:14:12,617
She seemed to be,

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looked like she felt out
    of place at the party.

231
00:14:18,225 --> 00:14:20,425
- I met Dan at a hand
    painted T-shirt company

232
00:14:20,427 --> 00:14:21,960
called the Lotus Shop,

233
00:14:21,962 --> 00:14:25,763
and it was Saint Mark's
   Place in the East Village.

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00:14:25,765 --> 00:14:27,365
I kind of gravitated towards Dan

235
00:14:27,367 --> 00:14:30,635
because we were both
 musicians as well as artists,

236
00:14:30,637 --> 00:14:33,271
and we had a similar
    sort of sense of humor,

237
00:14:33,273 --> 00:14:36,608
and we both kind of
      like were attracted

238
00:14:36,610 --> 00:14:39,911
to the same women, which
    was an interesting,

239
00:14:39,913 --> 00:14:42,413
something that
   manifested over the years

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00:14:42,415 --> 00:14:44,582
with interesting results.

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00:14:44,584 --> 00:14:45,850
- I mean, yes.

242
00:14:45,852 --> 00:14:47,018
I mean, I am doing
       what you asked,

243
00:14:47,020 --> 00:14:48,253
and you're socializing?

244
00:14:48,255 --> 00:14:50,822
- As beautiful as she
    was, that kind of thing

245
00:14:50,824 --> 00:14:53,691
didn't exactly, ya know,
   gee, I gotta go hang out,

246
00:14:53,693 --> 00:14:56,361
'cause it looked
        like she didn't,

247
00:14:56,363 --> 00:14:59,097
was not really enjoying
    herself all that much.

248
00:14:59,099 --> 00:15:00,698
I could even be wrong.

249
00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:02,734
Maybe that was just her way.

250
00:15:02,736 --> 00:15:04,936
- I wasn't sure if anyone...

251
00:15:04,938 --> 00:15:07,038
- Sorry, this
      stupid clasp keeps--

252
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,107
- I don't remember exactly
   what the issue was.

253
00:15:09,109 --> 00:15:12,310
It was either a broken clasp
  or a button or something,

254
00:15:12,312 --> 00:15:14,746
but she asked for assistance,

255
00:15:14,748 --> 00:15:17,015
and whatever it was
      that needed doing,

256
00:15:17,017 --> 00:15:18,616
I helped her with it.

257
00:15:18,618 --> 00:15:19,717
- Thanks.

258
00:15:28,662 --> 00:15:29,560
Well?

259
00:15:31,164 --> 00:15:33,564
Aren't you going to kiss me?

260
00:15:36,202 --> 00:15:38,002
- It actually, it felt
     a little like a scene

261
00:15:38,004 --> 00:15:40,405
from a movie to me,
      because ya know,

262
00:15:40,407 --> 00:15:41,806
"Aren't you gonna kiss me?"

263
00:15:41,808 --> 00:15:43,875
Have I heard that
      in a, I'm not sure.

264
00:15:43,877 --> 00:15:46,244
I did kiss her, though.

265
00:15:46,246 --> 00:15:47,445
It wasn't a long kiss.

266
00:15:47,447 --> 00:15:49,314
I mean, it was, 'cause
     I had just met her

267
00:15:49,316 --> 00:15:51,449
and she was so beautiful.

268
00:15:53,553 --> 00:15:54,953
- I knew he was gonna be there,

269
00:15:54,955 --> 00:15:58,556
but I wasn't really
  thinking along those lines,

270
00:15:58,558 --> 00:16:00,525
but when I first
       saw them together,

271
00:16:00,527 --> 00:16:03,995
I noticed that there was
  an attraction between them.

272
00:16:03,997 --> 00:16:06,264
So, it seemed inevitable
    in the moment.

273
00:16:15,108 --> 00:16:17,208
- We left together, we
    left the party together,

274
00:16:17,210 --> 00:16:18,409
and walked around.

275
00:16:18,411 --> 00:16:21,913
We walked around the
    place, around Manhattan,

276
00:16:21,915 --> 00:16:23,614
for about an hour or so.

277
00:16:25,118 --> 00:16:29,454
And then I said goodbye to her
 at wherever she was headed.

278
00:16:29,456 --> 00:16:32,423
I think it was a
    stairway, and there was

279
00:16:32,425 --> 00:16:34,092
a little romantic interplay,

280
00:16:34,094 --> 00:16:36,661
and she went off
       down the hallway.

281
00:16:36,663 --> 00:16:41,065
She was very assertive, though,
a very assertive person,

282
00:16:41,067 --> 00:16:43,634
and it made me certainly
    wanna see her again,

283
00:16:43,636 --> 00:16:47,572
and I think a few days
 later, we had our first date.

284
00:16:50,477 --> 00:16:52,677
We took a bus ride
      up to The Cloisters.

285
00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:55,046
I met her at the bus.

286
00:16:55,048 --> 00:16:56,447
We were the only
        ones on the bus,

287
00:16:56,449 --> 00:17:00,618
so, I took a bunch of
 pictures on the way up there.

288
00:17:22,742 --> 00:17:26,177
And then the bus filled
    in a little while later.

289
00:17:26,179 --> 00:17:29,680
We took some more pictures
   and some kids were gawkin'

290
00:17:29,682 --> 00:17:32,016
at what's goin' on, and
    she had 'em come back

291
00:17:32,018 --> 00:17:33,985
and pose for a picture.

292
00:17:35,121 --> 00:17:37,388
This is the first time
     I was ever with her,

293
00:17:37,390 --> 00:17:40,291
and she was doin' all kinds
  of antics on the seat,

294
00:17:40,293 --> 00:17:42,527
the back of the thing,

295
00:17:42,529 --> 00:17:45,396
lying on the back of the
    seat with her head down,

296
00:17:45,398 --> 00:17:47,532
just posin' for pictures.

297
00:17:48,668 --> 00:17:51,536
I had a camera, and
      she was right there

298
00:17:51,538 --> 00:17:56,007
posing for the
  pictures.

299
00:18:00,747 --> 00:18:04,916
I think I had been to The
   Cloisters in grade school

300
00:18:04,918 --> 00:18:07,385
as like a trip, like
    some kind of field trip.

301
00:18:07,387 --> 00:18:10,721
The Cloisters was a convent
  that was brought over,

302
00:18:10,723 --> 00:18:14,225
every stone was brought
    over and rebuilt.

303
00:19:02,775 --> 00:19:05,943
- Well, everybody had
     long hair in Jerusalem

304
00:19:05,945 --> 00:19:08,379
when Jesus Christ was young.

305
00:19:08,381 --> 00:19:11,949
They all must have looked
  sort of androgynous, right?

306
00:19:11,951 --> 00:19:13,317
- Yeah.
      - 'Cause they had on

307
00:19:13,319 --> 00:19:15,887
those long robes on and stuff.

308
00:19:15,889 --> 00:19:17,288
- Yeah.
            - Right?

309
00:19:18,391 --> 00:19:21,325
- Yeah, except the
      men all had beards.

310
00:19:21,327 --> 00:19:22,226
- Oh yeah.

311
00:19:24,497 --> 00:19:27,098
When do you think
     the guy first shaved,

312
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:28,466
the first guy shaved?

313
00:19:28,468 --> 00:19:31,602
- I'm sure they trimmed
    their beard with rocks.

314
00:19:31,604 --> 00:19:33,271
The first guy that shaved,
   it couldn't have been

315
00:19:33,273 --> 00:19:35,940
a very close shave with a rock.

316
00:19:37,377 --> 00:19:40,444
- Wonder why he
       started to do it.

317
00:19:40,446 --> 00:19:43,915
Bet ya guy got a zit and he
  needed to squeeze it out.

318
00:19:43,917 --> 00:19:45,316
- Or--
        - Shaved it off.

319
00:19:45,318 --> 00:19:46,784
- A bat got caught in it.

320
00:19:46,786 --> 00:19:47,985
- Or a mouse?

321
00:19:47,987 --> 00:19:49,787
- Yeah, a creature.
      - But how come--

322
00:19:49,789 --> 00:19:51,389
- Everyone said it
       looks pretty good.

323
00:19:51,391 --> 00:19:54,058
- But how--
        - This is good.

324
00:19:54,060 --> 00:19:56,727
- How come rats are
    ugly and mouses aren't?

325
00:19:56,729 --> 00:19:58,196
- It's the scale.

326
00:20:04,971 --> 00:20:06,571
- Dan was
 living in Corona Queens

327
00:20:06,573 --> 00:20:10,441
with his brother in an
  abandoned former synagogue.

328
00:20:10,443 --> 00:20:12,743
- Some friends of mine
     from graduate school

329
00:20:12,745 --> 00:20:15,780
found this old
      synagogue in Queens,

330
00:20:15,782 --> 00:20:19,383
and they poured a new floor
  and put in electricity.

331
00:20:19,385 --> 00:20:21,619
It had been abandoned
     for 15 years.

332
00:20:21,621 --> 00:20:24,956
And one guy left,
     somebody got married,

333
00:20:24,958 --> 00:20:28,359
and they asked me to
      move in, so, I did.

334
00:20:29,662 --> 00:20:31,062
- Dan invited
 Madonna over to the synagogue

335
00:20:31,064 --> 00:20:33,164
where they would spend
     more and more time

336
00:20:33,166 --> 00:20:35,466
getting to know each other.

337
00:20:35,468 --> 00:20:40,204
It was here that Madonna would
 begin her journey into music.

338
00:20:40,206 --> 00:20:43,574
- Danny and Madonna
    were seeing each other.

339
00:20:43,576 --> 00:20:46,277
This is probably the
  beginning, I'm thinkin' '78.

340
00:20:46,279 --> 00:20:49,113
They met at a May Day party,

341
00:20:49,115 --> 00:20:54,185
probably with, I think it
 was Norris Burroughs's party.

342
00:20:54,887 --> 00:20:55,853
So, they hit it off.

343
00:20:55,855 --> 00:20:57,088
They started seeing each other,

344
00:20:57,090 --> 00:21:00,124
and she would come
       over and stay.

345
00:21:00,126 --> 00:21:03,427
So, that's how I met her
  over here in the synagogue.

346
00:21:26,052 --> 00:21:28,319
This is the way we got in.

347
00:21:28,321 --> 00:21:30,254
Even though there's
      a gate in the front,

348
00:21:30,256 --> 00:21:33,457
back in those days
      that gate was kaput.

349
00:21:33,459 --> 00:21:35,960
So, we had to come in this way.

350
00:21:35,962 --> 00:21:38,029
It's a wonderful
 neighborhood, you'll love it.

351
00:21:38,031 --> 00:21:39,363
No.

352
00:21:39,365 --> 00:21:40,598
So, come on in.

353
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,768
This is the studio
      where we rehearsed,

354
00:21:43,770 --> 00:21:46,103
we played, we jammed.

355
00:21:46,105 --> 00:21:49,140
This is, you know, the
     general living space

356
00:21:49,142 --> 00:21:52,643
where everybody kind
      of would congregate.

357
00:21:52,645 --> 00:21:54,812
By everyone, I mean
     me, Dan, and Madonna,

358
00:21:54,814 --> 00:21:56,480
and then we'd, you
       know, play around.

359
00:21:56,482 --> 00:21:58,015
Here are the drums.

360
00:21:58,017 --> 00:21:59,884
These are the drums
      Madonna played.

361
00:21:59,886 --> 00:22:00,818
Danny played 'em.

362
00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:02,253
Mike Monahan played 'em.

363
00:22:02,255 --> 00:22:04,021
They're still here.

364
00:22:08,961 --> 00:22:10,695
She used to put her gum,

365
00:22:10,697 --> 00:22:13,097
she used to put her
     gum on this post here,

366
00:22:13,099 --> 00:22:16,634
and there's still little
pieces of gum there.

367
00:22:16,636 --> 00:22:18,636
- You walked in
      and saw everything.

368
00:22:18,638 --> 00:22:21,839
There were guitars here,
  there was a bass over here,

369
00:22:21,841 --> 00:22:24,008
and a whole set of drums.

370
00:22:26,479 --> 00:22:28,913
I don't think she thought
   I'm gonna be a drummer,

371
00:22:28,915 --> 00:22:31,749
but there's a guy
       playing guitar,

372
00:22:31,751 --> 00:22:33,884
and here we're playin' music.

373
00:22:37,023 --> 00:22:40,257
- I think drums was the
  instrument that Danny first,

374
00:22:40,259 --> 00:22:43,094
you know, showed
        her stuff to do.

375
00:22:44,964 --> 00:22:47,398
- As a dancer, she was always
 into counting, ya know,

376
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,900
everything, eight counts, and
 it fit right into drumming,

377
00:22:49,902 --> 00:22:54,438
so it was a very
     smooth transition from
     dancing to drumming.

378
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,642
And after just goin'
     through a few little,

379
00:22:58,644 --> 00:23:02,279
she picked up on it
    pretty easily, ya know?

380
00:23:03,816 --> 00:23:06,016
- And then, you know,
     it would just be,

381
00:23:06,018 --> 00:23:07,885
if someone's playin' drums
   you'd start playin' along

382
00:23:07,887 --> 00:23:10,721
with them, and then there was
 jamming that would happen.

383
00:23:12,925 --> 00:23:15,426
So, she would be playing drums,

384
00:23:15,428 --> 00:23:19,130
and learning how to
    play drums all day long.

385
00:23:28,241 --> 00:23:29,774
And then the feet.

386
00:23:29,776 --> 00:23:31,776
She's got the feet in
   there opposite the snare,

387
00:23:31,778 --> 00:23:33,444
and away we went.

388
00:23:33,446 --> 00:23:36,213
- At the time, Dan
 Gilroy and his brother, Ed,

389
00:23:36,215 --> 00:23:39,750
were performing as a two man
musical act called Bill and Gil

390
00:23:39,752 --> 00:23:42,820
in a variety show in New
  York City called Voidville.

391
00:23:42,822 --> 00:23:45,055
- Bill and Gil was a
      two man performance.

392
00:23:45,057 --> 00:23:46,857
We used guitars.

393
00:23:46,859 --> 00:23:48,292
We used percussion.

394
00:23:50,163 --> 00:23:52,997
That's how Bill and Gil started.

395
00:23:52,999 --> 00:23:55,433
Ed and I had a
   performance at Voidville,

396
00:23:55,435 --> 00:23:58,202
a theater in New
      City on 2nd Avenue,

397
00:23:58,204 --> 00:24:01,572
and Madonna, she came
     over to the synagogue

398
00:24:01,574 --> 00:24:03,407
and came to the show.

399
00:24:04,744 --> 00:24:07,011
There's a photo of her making
 herself up in the bathroom

400
00:24:07,013 --> 00:24:11,282
with that pink and black
  tight leotard kind of thing,

401
00:24:11,284 --> 00:24:14,752
but that was just before we
  were going to do Voidville,

402
00:24:14,754 --> 00:24:16,287
but she wasn't living
     here at the time.

403
00:24:19,625 --> 00:24:20,524
- So,

404
00:24:22,295 --> 00:24:23,594
there ya go.

405
00:24:23,596 --> 00:24:26,864
- She looked fantastic
     in this leotard.

406
00:24:26,866 --> 00:24:29,133
I took a bunch of pictures.

407
00:24:29,135 --> 00:24:32,937
I think she had red shoes on,
 red shoes with high heels.

408
00:24:32,939 --> 00:24:36,373
Anyway, I took a bunch
     of pictures of that.

409
00:24:36,375 --> 00:24:40,478
In fact, I asked her to come
  upstairs at the synagogue

410
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,046
because the space was big.

411
00:24:42,048 --> 00:24:45,249
Pictures looked
       really great with

412
00:24:45,251 --> 00:24:47,117
that shocking pink
      right in the middle

413
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,620
of this gray brown synagogue.

414
00:24:55,228 --> 00:24:57,461
- A recording
 artist named Patrick Hernandez

415
00:24:57,463 --> 00:24:58,963
was interested in having Madonna

416
00:24:58,965 --> 00:25:02,166
be part of his show in Paris.

417
00:25:02,168 --> 00:25:04,969
His song, Born to Be Alive,
  was a tremendous hit,

418
00:25:04,971 --> 00:25:07,838
and his team offered Madonna
  visions of her own stardom

419
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,407
if she would come
      with them to France.

420
00:25:10,409 --> 00:25:13,177
- She looked like
       a perfect punk,

421
00:25:13,179 --> 00:25:16,380
like that ideal,
  right?

422
00:25:16,382 --> 00:25:17,882
That's why they
    brought her over there.

423
00:25:17,884 --> 00:25:22,553
He was gonna release Disco
   Queen, and she was like,

424
00:25:22,555 --> 00:25:26,056
ya know, that thing they
    were thinking about.

425
00:25:27,593 --> 00:25:31,862
- She goes to France with
   the Patrick Hernandez show

426
00:25:31,864 --> 00:25:35,132
over the course of that summer.

427
00:25:35,134 --> 00:25:38,903
- Dear Dan, I was
 crazy to put four letters

428
00:25:38,905 --> 00:25:41,305
in the mail at once.

429
00:25:41,307 --> 00:25:44,008
I'm sure it makes a
      person feel popular,

430
00:25:44,010 --> 00:25:47,444
but after all, you
       are very lovable,

431
00:25:47,446 --> 00:25:50,314
and I'm not such
       a heartless fiend,

432
00:25:50,316 --> 00:25:53,984
although I'm sure I appear
   that way to many people.

433
00:25:53,986 --> 00:25:59,056
I have a lot of leisure time
  now, much to my frustration.

434
00:26:00,426 --> 00:26:03,527
I can't stand the thought
  of doing absolutely nothing.

435
00:26:03,529 --> 00:26:07,097
It's a nightmare
       to think about it.

436
00:26:07,099 --> 00:26:11,035
I'm so full of
   anxiousness and ambition,

437
00:26:11,037 --> 00:26:15,439
and I long for some
responsibility, some hard work,

438
00:26:15,441 --> 00:26:17,942
and certainly some sweat.

439
00:26:17,944 --> 00:26:20,644
Those are the things
    that make me feel real,

440
00:26:20,646 --> 00:26:22,646
besides you, of course.

441
00:26:24,150 --> 00:26:25,649
- She wanted to create stuff,

442
00:26:25,651 --> 00:26:29,320
but I'm not sure she knew
  exactly what vehicle to use.

443
00:26:29,322 --> 00:26:31,855
- This is
  my last stay in Paris,

444
00:26:31,857 --> 00:26:35,526
and I wonder if the sky
    will always be so gray.

445
00:26:35,528 --> 00:26:38,629
I long to put my arms
  around you, and to kiss you,

446
00:26:38,631 --> 00:26:40,864
and hold you really close.

447
00:26:42,401 --> 00:26:44,301
Au revoir, mon cherie.

448
00:26:45,571 --> 00:26:48,005
- So, the Patrick
   Hernandez thing, for her,

449
00:26:48,007 --> 00:26:51,241
I guess ended at the
      end of the summer,

450
00:26:51,243 --> 00:26:53,310
or in the beginning of autumn,

451
00:26:53,312 --> 00:26:55,813
and so she came
       back to New York.

452
00:26:58,751 --> 00:27:02,019
- I and my sort would
  struggle against tradition,

453
00:27:02,021 --> 00:27:06,357
try at least to displace
    old cants with new ones.

454
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,259
I thought I was right about
  life at various times,

455
00:27:09,261 --> 00:27:11,261
but faith is difficult.

456
00:27:13,065 --> 00:27:15,165
- Dan and Madonna
 resume their relationship

457
00:27:15,167 --> 00:27:17,301
right where it left off.

458
00:27:17,303 --> 00:27:20,871
Soon after, they decided
    to live together.

459
00:27:22,508 --> 00:27:23,674
- And she would stay over here,

460
00:27:23,676 --> 00:27:25,275
they'd stay over
     there, stay over here,

461
00:27:25,277 --> 00:27:27,378
and then it just kind
    of gradually she wants,

462
00:27:27,380 --> 00:27:29,880
I'd like her to stay
      here, he said so.

463
00:27:29,882 --> 00:27:33,550
You know, we had 3,400
  square feet of living space,

464
00:27:33,552 --> 00:27:35,285
and we only had one
   kitchen and one bathroom.

465
00:27:35,287 --> 00:27:38,389
So, we had to
      kinda work on that.

466
00:27:38,391 --> 00:27:40,224
Over here's the sink.

467
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,296
Good old New York sink,
  the original, one and only.

468
00:27:47,667 --> 00:27:49,166
Madonna made a lot of popcorn
 here, I could tell ya that.

469
00:27:49,168 --> 00:27:50,801
There was always the smell
   of popcorn in the house.

470
00:27:50,803 --> 00:27:52,870
Either Parmesan cheese
     on it or paprika

471
00:27:52,872 --> 00:27:54,938
or there was pepper or
     something like that.

472
00:27:54,940 --> 00:27:56,507
She loved popcorn.

473
00:27:57,877 --> 00:28:01,945
This was a tough town, New
   York, back in the '70s.

474
00:28:01,947 --> 00:28:03,981
She didn't have a place
    to say after awhile.

475
00:28:03,983 --> 00:28:06,717
So, it was just, seemed to be

476
00:28:06,719 --> 00:28:09,353
the right thing to do, ya know.

477
00:28:27,273 --> 00:28:28,605
- My rat's dead?

478
00:28:28,607 --> 00:28:30,340
- Nah,.

479
00:28:30,342 --> 00:28:31,875
- Sounds very French Japanese.

480
00:28:33,212 --> 00:28:35,279
French Japanese French, eh?

481
00:28:35,281 --> 00:28:37,614
- There's one thing I don't,

482
00:28:37,616 --> 00:28:39,116
there's one thing I,

483
00:28:39,118 --> 00:28:41,752
there's one thing
      I, there's one thing

484
00:28:41,754 --> 00:28:43,320
I don't like.
      - I just can't even

485
00:28:43,322 --> 00:28:44,988
quite get around to
      talking about it.

486
00:28:44,990 --> 00:28:49,259
- One thing I don't really
  like, there's one thing I...

487
00:28:49,261 --> 00:28:50,994
- But hey, ya know,
    I'll tell ya one thing.

488
00:28:50,996 --> 00:28:52,996
- Did you ever--
   - You know, we're patient.

489
00:28:52,998 --> 00:28:54,498
- Patient?
           - Yeah.

490
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:57,968
Yeah, I don't know if I ever
  did, I'm not sure, but...

491
00:28:57,970 --> 00:29:02,239
- Well, I don't know why a
   patient could be patient.

492
00:29:02,241 --> 00:29:03,741
- Wonder.

493
00:29:03,743 --> 00:29:06,810
Well, listen, number one,
   wondering is very good,

494
00:29:06,812 --> 00:29:09,980
and I'm glad you've
      been wondering.

495
00:29:11,784 --> 00:29:14,451
- I remember after she
     came back from Europe,

496
00:29:14,453 --> 00:29:17,588
she called me and
      I went to meet her.

497
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:22,059
They were shooting that
   film A Certain Sacrifice.

498
00:29:22,061 --> 00:29:24,528
- Madonna was also
 scouring the help wanted ads

499
00:29:24,530 --> 00:29:27,998
in the acting and
    talent trade magazines.

500
00:29:29,368 --> 00:29:33,670
And with that, she landed
  a role in the student film.

501
00:29:33,672 --> 00:29:37,341
- I put an ad in
   Backstage Magazine, is it?

502
00:29:39,545 --> 00:29:43,947
And I believe it said
 something like I'm looking for

503
00:29:45,384 --> 00:29:49,620
a dominatrix with dark
  hair who can dance and act.

504
00:29:52,191 --> 00:29:56,627
I was sort of irritated by the
 kind of people I was finding,

505
00:29:56,629 --> 00:29:58,395
and then I was going
    through all this stuff,

506
00:29:58,397 --> 00:30:01,932
and I was throwing
   things out, and something

507
00:30:01,934 --> 00:30:06,737
that I had missed was Madonna's
letter that she wrote to me,

508
00:30:06,739 --> 00:30:10,908
and a picture of her dropped
  out of this envelope,

509
00:30:10,910 --> 00:30:13,277
and she was just
      putting lipstick on,

510
00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:16,513
and it was an
    incredibly sexy picture,

511
00:30:18,250 --> 00:30:22,920
and I was like, I don't really
 have to look any further.

512
00:30:22,922 --> 00:30:25,489
And then of course she wrote
  this three page letter,

513
00:30:25,491 --> 00:30:27,024
which is pretty amazing.

514
00:30:27,026 --> 00:30:28,025
It was kind of a
      history of her life

515
00:30:28,027 --> 00:30:30,060
up to that point in time.

516
00:30:30,062 --> 00:30:33,864
At the end of the letter,
  she put a little tiny thing

517
00:30:33,866 --> 00:30:35,766
in little type, is that all?

518
00:30:35,768 --> 00:30:37,568
And it was very cute.

519
00:30:40,806 --> 00:30:43,574
So, the year and month
     that I started filming

520
00:30:43,576 --> 00:30:47,144
A Certain Sacrifice
     was September of 1979,

521
00:30:48,247 --> 00:30:52,082
and the first scene
     was the fountain scene

522
00:30:52,084 --> 00:30:56,720
where Madonna is dancing with
 Dasheil, the protagonist,

523
00:30:58,357 --> 00:31:02,459
and as I was filming it, I
   was filming it by myself,

524
00:31:02,461 --> 00:31:06,330
no sound man, no camera man,
  it was just me and them,

525
00:31:06,332 --> 00:31:08,966
so the three of us, and
    I was sort of dancing

526
00:31:08,968 --> 00:31:11,001
in the fountain with
      them trying to keep

527
00:31:11,003 --> 00:31:15,806
the water off of my camera,
  but that was all improvised.

528
00:31:15,808 --> 00:31:19,142
So, basically just here's
   what's gonna happen,

529
00:31:19,144 --> 00:31:20,677
and they just go for it.

530
00:31:20,679 --> 00:31:24,748
That, to me, was the magic
   of making this movie.

531
00:31:25,618 --> 00:31:27,351
There was a lot of direction.

532
00:31:27,353 --> 00:31:29,987
There was, the same
      time, who she was

533
00:31:29,989 --> 00:31:33,123
created partly
      what the movie was.

534
00:31:33,125 --> 00:31:34,758
She was very
      beautiful back then.

535
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,593
I still think she's beautiful.

536
00:31:36,595 --> 00:31:38,295
- I told them that I
     was in love with you.

537
00:31:39,131 --> 00:31:41,031
- And what'd they say?

538
00:31:42,134 --> 00:31:44,368
- They were heartless and,

539
00:31:45,905 --> 00:31:49,973
and then they were really
   jealous, just jealous.

540
00:31:51,076 --> 00:31:52,743
- If there were
       lines to rehearse,

541
00:31:52,745 --> 00:31:54,745
she always had them rehearsed.

542
00:31:54,747 --> 00:31:59,650
She always was on time,
  and even though this movie,

543
00:31:59,652 --> 00:32:03,620
and she knew it, was not
   a professional production,

544
00:32:03,622 --> 00:32:07,658
she was going to put the
  best into it that she could,

545
00:32:07,660 --> 00:32:08,926
and she did every time.

546
00:32:14,099 --> 00:32:19,069
- That film is just
 really bizarre.

547
00:32:20,172 --> 00:32:21,438
I don't think I
       would have wanted

548
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,740
to have anything to
      do with that movie,

549
00:32:23,742 --> 00:32:26,877
with all due respect
      to the director.

550
00:32:29,949 --> 00:32:31,782
- It depends on how
    you look at this movie.

551
00:32:31,784 --> 00:32:33,617
If you're looking at it
    as if you're gonna look

552
00:32:33,619 --> 00:32:35,919
at a Hollywood production,

553
00:32:35,921 --> 00:32:38,322
you are gonna be
      really disappointed.

554
00:32:38,324 --> 00:32:43,126
If you look at it as street
 life in New York in the '70s,

555
00:32:45,030 --> 00:32:46,930
I think it's great.

556
00:32:46,932 --> 00:32:49,132
Obviously there's a lot
    of amateur stuff in it,

557
00:32:49,134 --> 00:32:53,637
but when it gets it right,
   it's really, it's fun.

558
00:32:53,639 --> 00:32:56,106
- You can make the effort,
   you can have the desire,

559
00:32:56,108 --> 00:32:57,841
but it's not enough.

560
00:32:59,645 --> 00:33:01,378
Need something more.

561
00:33:07,052 --> 00:33:08,518
- All the
  while, Madonna kept up

562
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,954
with her drumming practice,
  and she was soon ready

563
00:33:10,956 --> 00:33:14,825
to take on the challenge of
  learning another instrument.

564
00:33:14,827 --> 00:33:16,426
- She already could
      keep the beat.

565
00:33:16,428 --> 00:33:20,964
So, naturally, she wanted
   to get more into music

566
00:33:20,966 --> 00:33:25,736
than just drumming, not
   that drumming isn't music.

567
00:33:25,738 --> 00:33:29,639
Well, people say, oh, you taught
Madonna how to play guitar.

568
00:33:29,641 --> 00:33:31,208
Actually, it's like
      riding a bicycle.

569
00:33:31,210 --> 00:33:32,843
No one actually teaches you.

570
00:33:32,845 --> 00:33:35,012
They hold your head,
      and at some point

571
00:33:35,014 --> 00:33:36,947
you learn yourself, right?

572
00:33:46,325 --> 00:33:47,891
- Madonna's
  friend Angie,

573
00:33:47,893 --> 00:33:50,794
who had a small role
    in A Certain Sacrifice,

574
00:33:50,796 --> 00:33:53,030
was a bass guitar player,
   and Madonna thought

575
00:33:53,032 --> 00:33:55,899
she should introduce her
    to the Gilroys as well.

576
00:33:55,901 --> 00:33:57,801
- Angie was kind
       of tall, stately.

577
00:33:57,803 --> 00:34:01,938
She was a ballet dancer,
  gorgeous big beautiful lips.

578
00:34:01,940 --> 00:34:06,176
You'd just be quite taken
   with her, and Madonna was.

579
00:34:06,178 --> 00:34:08,779
- Dan and I were between
    bands at the time,

580
00:34:08,781 --> 00:34:11,248
and Madonna was playing,
    and the three of us

581
00:34:11,250 --> 00:34:15,285
were kind of just, ya
   know, playing around here,

582
00:34:16,422 --> 00:34:19,423
and Dan and I had a
      bunch of songs, too.

583
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:22,325
And so Madonna asked
      Angie to come over,

584
00:34:22,327 --> 00:34:24,661
'cause Angie had a bass.

585
00:34:24,663 --> 00:34:27,064
So, Angie came
      over, and that's how

586
00:34:27,066 --> 00:34:28,432
the first Breakfast
      Club started.

587
00:34:28,434 --> 00:34:31,735
We had Madonna on
     drums, Angie on bass,

588
00:34:31,737 --> 00:34:35,472
and Dan and me out
    front with the guitars.

589
00:34:42,147 --> 00:34:44,314
The material we did was
    stuff that Dan and I

590
00:34:44,316 --> 00:34:46,383
had already, a lot
       of it was stuff

591
00:34:46,385 --> 00:34:48,185
that was already in the mix.

592
00:34:48,187 --> 00:34:51,321
We did songs like
       Curtis Come Back.

593
00:34:51,323 --> 00:34:53,156
¶ Curtis come back ¶

594
00:34:53,158 --> 00:34:57,027
¶ We want you over
       on our side. ¶

595
00:34:57,029 --> 00:34:58,562
- That was a good song.

596
00:34:58,564 --> 00:35:01,198
Madonna on drums on Curtis
   Come Back, Angie on bass,

597
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:02,699
Dan and me on guitars.

598
00:35:02,701 --> 00:35:05,235
- It kinda felt like it was
gonna be the sort of band where,

599
00:35:05,237 --> 00:35:07,904
like a Fleetwood Mac
     thing where you'd have

600
00:35:07,906 --> 00:35:12,976
Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie
 Nicks and Christine McVie

601
00:35:14,113 --> 00:35:15,712
taking turns on vocals,
    or they would harmonize.

602
00:35:15,714 --> 00:35:18,115
- We did a song called Trouble,
which she was out front,

603
00:35:18,117 --> 00:35:20,684
and the three of us wrote,
   Dan, Madonna, and I.

604
00:35:20,686 --> 00:35:22,486
¶ Trouble, trouble,
  trouble, trouble, trouble ¶

605
00:35:22,488 --> 00:35:24,187
¶ Trouble, trouble,
  trouble, trouble, trouble ¶

606
00:35:24,189 --> 00:35:25,689
¶ Trouble, trouble,
  trouble, trouble, trouble ¶

607
00:35:25,691 --> 00:35:26,623
¶ Trouble, trouble ¶

608
00:35:26,625 --> 00:35:28,225
- Dan was on drums, Angie and I

609
00:35:28,227 --> 00:35:29,960
were on guitar and
    bass, Madonna up front.

610
00:35:29,962 --> 00:35:31,194
¶ Trouble, trouble ¶

611
00:35:31,196 --> 00:35:33,396
¶ I've got this
      trouble in my body ¶

612
00:35:33,398 --> 00:35:36,233
¶ When no love's in my heart ¶

613
00:35:36,235 --> 00:35:37,834
¶ Oh ¶

614
00:35:39,338 --> 00:35:41,138
- Angie's days
 with the band were numbered,

615
00:35:41,140 --> 00:35:42,439
and although fun at first,

616
00:35:42,441 --> 00:35:45,108
she didn't last
      long in the lineup.

617
00:35:45,110 --> 00:35:46,543
- Angie was great.

618
00:35:46,545 --> 00:35:49,613
I'm a big fan of Angie's, always
have been, always will be.

619
00:35:49,615 --> 00:35:52,883
Great person, good
       woman, strong,

620
00:35:52,885 --> 00:35:55,318
strong fingers playin' the bass.

621
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:56,820
She was at a little
     disadvantage, though,

622
00:35:56,822 --> 00:35:58,155
'cause the three
       of us lived here.

623
00:35:58,157 --> 00:35:59,122
- Knock knock.

624
00:35:59,124 --> 00:36:00,490
- Who's there?

625
00:36:00,492 --> 00:36:01,324
- Olive.

626
00:36:01,326 --> 00:36:02,325
- Olive who?

627
00:36:02,327 --> 00:36:04,060
- Olive you.

628
00:36:04,062 --> 00:36:05,362
- I love olives.

629
00:36:05,364 --> 00:36:06,296
Got any?

630
00:36:06,298 --> 00:36:07,497
- Whoa, that's shootin' ya

631
00:36:07,499 --> 00:36:10,400
in the foot.
     - You gonna eat that?

632
00:36:10,402 --> 00:36:13,637
- At any given moment,
     you could just say,

633
00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:16,173
I need to, can we just
     work on this harmony

634
00:36:16,175 --> 00:36:17,674
for a couple of seconds?

635
00:36:17,676 --> 00:36:19,643
And then that would turn
   into a half hour, an hour

636
00:36:19,645 --> 00:36:21,878
of working on the material.

637
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,681
And could we just go
      over this drum part,

638
00:36:24,683 --> 00:36:26,883
and the bass, things like that.

639
00:36:26,885 --> 00:36:28,418
But Angie didn't live here.

640
00:36:28,420 --> 00:36:29,986
- I just feel bad.

641
00:36:35,527 --> 00:36:37,194
- I have mixed
     feelings about Angie.

642
00:36:37,196 --> 00:36:38,862
I just feel like we
     were giving her parts

643
00:36:38,864 --> 00:36:40,230
that were too hard,
     or it could have been

644
00:36:40,232 --> 00:36:41,431
more like Rolling
       Stones, you know,

645
00:36:41,433 --> 00:36:45,168
like,.

646
00:36:45,170 --> 00:36:46,069
- I guess.

647
00:36:47,472 --> 00:36:51,975
- Madonna didn't really wanna
 work in that foursome anymore,

648
00:36:53,378 --> 00:36:57,113
and with good reason, because
 she knew it wasn't really like

649
00:36:57,115 --> 00:36:58,949
an act that would go.

650
00:37:00,352 --> 00:37:02,152
There was a little bit
    of a competition there.

651
00:37:02,154 --> 00:37:05,789
One time Angie said, in
  front of Madonna, about me,

652
00:37:05,791 --> 00:37:08,792
"I will have him."

653
00:37:08,794 --> 00:37:12,996
And Madonna was like, "Oh,
   go ahead, I don't care."

654
00:37:12,998 --> 00:37:16,866
So, it could have been, that
  could have been part of it,

655
00:37:16,868 --> 00:37:20,770
you know, who is the
   audience looking at here?

656
00:37:22,674 --> 00:37:25,875
Man, they're worse than
    marriages, the bands.

657
00:37:25,877 --> 00:37:29,279
Really, the breakup, 'cause
there's so many people involved.

658
00:37:29,281 --> 00:37:31,748
That was the worst.

659
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:35,151
Anyway, that was the
      worst, when Angie.

660
00:37:35,153 --> 00:37:40,223
- It just was time for a change,
and Gary became available.

661
00:37:41,326 --> 00:37:42,759
- Gary Burke
 was a childhood friend

662
00:37:42,761 --> 00:37:44,527
of the Gilroys and a
   former band mate as well.

663
00:37:46,164 --> 00:37:50,300
¶ Hasn't it been a long winter ¶

664
00:37:50,302 --> 00:37:53,003
- It was Dan, Ed,
   myself, and Mike Monahan.

665
00:37:53,005 --> 00:37:55,505
Called ourselves the Acme Band,

666
00:37:55,507 --> 00:37:58,508
which I still think
     is a great band name.

667
00:37:58,510 --> 00:38:01,711
- So, we had Gary, Mike,
  Dan, and me comin' over here

668
00:38:01,713 --> 00:38:04,080
and just playing
       for the fun of it.

669
00:38:04,082 --> 00:38:05,915
It was just really so much fun.

670
00:38:05,917 --> 00:38:08,485
¶ Is all blue ¶

671
00:38:16,161 --> 00:38:18,828
- It wasn't like we had
   Gary waiting in the wings.

672
00:38:18,830 --> 00:38:22,599
Nothing was happening for
   a week or so or even more,

673
00:38:22,601 --> 00:38:27,337
but we knew Gary was around,
  and we wanted to play gigs.

674
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,408
So, I think we just
      invited Gary over.

675
00:38:34,980 --> 00:38:38,648
- See, I wasn't privy
     to their discussions,

676
00:38:39,718 --> 00:38:41,318
but all of a sudden,
      I was invited

677
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,287
to be the bass player.
    - One, two, three, four.

678
00:38:53,498 --> 00:38:56,900
¶ I don't have far to go now ¶

679
00:38:56,902 --> 00:39:00,904
¶ But it certainly seems so ¶

680
00:39:00,906 --> 00:39:04,841
¶ With you at the end
     of the line, dear ¶

681
00:39:04,843 --> 00:39:07,510
¶ I really do wanna go ¶

682
00:39:07,512 --> 00:39:12,582
¶ But this wind, it keeps
   whippin' in on me, yeah ¶

683
00:39:15,020 --> 00:39:16,519
- So,
       ¶ The cold wind ¶

684
00:39:16,521 --> 00:39:18,288
- They just said like, do
   you wanna join the band?

685
00:39:18,290 --> 00:39:19,222
And so I said yeah,

686
00:39:19,224 --> 00:39:20,390
okay, I'm in.

687
00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:24,294
¶ Oh yeah ¶

688
00:39:24,296 --> 00:39:27,831
¶ Sometimes my spirit's empty ¶

689
00:39:27,833 --> 00:39:31,701
¶ And I need to fill it up ¶

690
00:39:31,703 --> 00:39:35,438
¶ I know that there is plenty ¶

691
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,675
¶ But I never get enough ¶

692
00:39:38,677 --> 00:39:39,909
- I was the new bass player.

693
00:39:39,911 --> 00:39:42,345
Angie Smit was out, I
     felt bad about that.

694
00:39:42,347 --> 00:39:45,582
I had mixed feelings,
    I don't like, you know,

695
00:39:45,584 --> 00:39:47,884
I don't like all that band,

696
00:39:47,886 --> 00:39:49,986
¶ That keeps whippin' ¶

697
00:39:49,988 --> 00:39:52,789
- that band stuff that goes
  on when people get replaced

698
00:39:52,791 --> 00:39:55,225
and this and that, you know,
  hurt feelings and all that.

699
00:39:55,227 --> 00:39:56,826
I'm not comfortable with it.

700
00:39:56,828 --> 00:39:59,496
So, I had mixed feelings,
   but I kinda had a crush

701
00:39:59,498 --> 00:40:00,830
on Madonna at this point,

702
00:40:00,832 --> 00:40:02,499
even though she was
      Dan's girlfriend.

703
00:40:02,501 --> 00:40:03,733
¶ Sometimes I try
       to attract it ¶

704
00:40:03,735 --> 00:40:05,468
¶ Sometimes I try
       to attract it ¶

705
00:40:05,470 --> 00:40:07,470
¶ Sometimes I try
       to attract it ¶

706
00:40:07,472 --> 00:40:09,939
- It was the Acme Band, so
  it was the same four members

707
00:40:09,941 --> 00:40:12,275
plus this intriguing new chick.

708
00:40:12,277 --> 00:40:13,443
Chick.

709
00:40:13,445 --> 00:40:14,911
¶ It keeps whippin' ¶

710
00:40:14,913 --> 00:40:16,446
- It was like people you
  play ball with or something.

711
00:40:16,448 --> 00:40:19,149
It was like people you knew
  come on over and we'll play.

712
00:40:19,151 --> 00:40:21,584
¶ Cold wind, it keeps ¶

713
00:40:21,586 --> 00:40:24,587
- We could already play
    fairly well together.

714
00:40:24,589 --> 00:40:26,189
¶ Oh yeah ¶

715
00:40:26,191 --> 00:40:29,092
- And Madonna was
      that new component.

716
00:40:29,094 --> 00:40:30,727
¶ It keeps whippin' ¶

717
00:40:30,729 --> 00:40:33,029
¶ It keeps whippin' in on me ¶

718
00:40:33,031 --> 00:40:33,963
- It was a good band.

719
00:40:33,965 --> 00:40:35,231
It was a good punky band.

720
00:40:35,233 --> 00:40:36,599
Madonna would come out
     from behind the drums

721
00:40:36,601 --> 00:40:38,301
and do her two songs.

722
00:40:38,303 --> 00:40:40,270
¶ Whippin', whippin' ¶

723
00:40:40,272 --> 00:40:42,505
¶ In on me ¶
    - She had star quality.

724
00:40:42,507 --> 00:40:46,075
I could see that right
     away, on night one.

725
00:40:47,345 --> 00:40:49,245
- While we made that
  change, and brought Gary in,

726
00:40:49,247 --> 00:40:53,283
we also brought in Mike
    Monahan back again.

727
00:40:53,285 --> 00:40:56,152
- And Mike, who had
     been in the Acme Band,

728
00:40:56,154 --> 00:41:00,423
he was gonna come back
     and be on drums again,

729
00:41:00,425 --> 00:41:03,159
and that would free Madonna
  up to play the organ.

730
00:41:03,161 --> 00:41:05,228
- We got a little keyboard,
  a Farfisa keyboard,

731
00:41:05,230 --> 00:41:09,065
and Madonna played the
     keyboard for a while.

732
00:41:09,067 --> 00:41:10,633
- With the band
 now fully fleshed out,

733
00:41:10,635 --> 00:41:12,702
it was time to start
      doing some promotion

734
00:41:12,704 --> 00:41:14,771
and getting some work.

735
00:41:14,773 --> 00:41:17,006
- The photo that was
    taken in the alley here

736
00:41:17,008 --> 00:41:20,310
goin' up the steps, it
     was just, we decided

737
00:41:20,312 --> 00:41:24,714
we were gonna take some
  shots to advertise our gigs.

738
00:41:26,084 --> 00:41:29,018
It was like, I think, Gary,
 he was sticking head out here,

739
00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:30,987
and Dan, Mike, Madonna.

740
00:41:32,090 --> 00:41:34,624
I was up on top, ya
     know, some silly pose

741
00:41:34,626 --> 00:41:37,193
I'm not thrilled
    about, and that's where

742
00:41:37,195 --> 00:41:39,095
this place was, right?

743
00:41:54,913 --> 00:41:56,412
- Madonna and
 Dan managed to balance

744
00:41:56,414 --> 00:41:59,849
their professional relationship
with their personal one,

745
00:41:59,851 --> 00:42:04,888
but Dan wasn't the only band
 member with eyes for Madonna.

746
00:42:06,057 --> 00:42:07,790
- Hey, Madonna, can I
     talk to you for a sec?

747
00:42:07,792 --> 00:42:10,059
- Yeah,
  what's up, bear?

748
00:42:14,799 --> 00:42:17,267
- Did you want something,

749
00:42:17,269 --> 00:42:21,771
but you weren't sure
    it was the right thing?

750
00:42:21,773 --> 00:42:26,409
I mean, were you ever afraid
  to just say what you want?

751
00:42:29,314 --> 00:42:30,213
- No.

752
00:42:33,718 --> 00:42:36,853
- So, you know
     exactly what you want?

753
00:42:37,856 --> 00:42:38,855
- Yes.

754
00:42:38,857 --> 00:42:40,590
- Madonna wanted to be famous.

755
00:42:40,592 --> 00:42:42,659
That was her thing, man.

756
00:42:43,995 --> 00:42:45,528
And she didn't care if she
 got through it through dance,

757
00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:46,629
through rock and roll, whatever.

758
00:42:46,631 --> 00:42:48,498
She wanted to be famous.

759
00:42:48,500 --> 00:42:52,502
- I will do whatever I
    have to do to get there.

760
00:42:53,805 --> 00:42:56,306
- She would be so squirrelly,
 like I wanna be famous.

761
00:42:56,308 --> 00:42:57,840
She wanted to be
        famous now, man.

762
00:42:57,842 --> 00:42:58,741
Yeah, now.

763
00:43:00,245 --> 00:43:02,445
- It's not funny.

764
00:43:02,447 --> 00:43:04,180
- I know, I'm sorry.

765
00:43:05,317 --> 00:43:07,116
- And she was like,
     you could just see it.

766
00:43:07,118 --> 00:43:09,485
She was like, in
       her body language,

767
00:43:09,487 --> 00:43:12,322
it's like, ooh, when's
     it gonna happen?

768
00:43:12,324 --> 00:43:13,923
That kind of thing.

769
00:43:15,226 --> 00:43:18,161
- What was it that you
  were talking about wanting?

770
00:43:18,163 --> 00:43:21,397
- Nothing, I
  was just asking...

771
00:43:25,136 --> 00:43:28,671
- Oh, I knew Gary and Mike
   had a crush on Madonna.

772
00:43:28,673 --> 00:43:30,106
Everyone had a crush on Madonna.

773
00:43:30,108 --> 00:43:32,175
The guy upstairs, John Horne,
 had a crush on Madonna.

774
00:43:32,177 --> 00:43:35,378
I'm sure Gary and Mike
    had a crush on Madonna.

775
00:43:35,380 --> 00:43:36,779
She's beautiful,
       she's in the band,

776
00:43:36,781 --> 00:43:38,281
you're workin'
      with her every day.

777
00:43:38,283 --> 00:43:41,985
- I did tell Madonna a few
  times how I felt about her.

778
00:43:41,987 --> 00:43:44,253
I was working in a bookstore.

779
00:43:44,255 --> 00:43:48,725
I told the manager of the
   bookstore that I was sick.

780
00:43:48,727 --> 00:43:50,960
I went and I took the
     train and the bus.

781
00:43:52,764 --> 00:43:57,100
And I knew she was alone
   at the synagogue that day.

782
00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:03,873
It's a major betrayal
     type of thing, though.

783
00:44:03,875 --> 00:44:05,141
You don't do this, 'cause they

784
00:44:05,143 --> 00:44:09,946
hadn't split up yet.

785
00:44:10,482 --> 00:44:11,547
- Hey, bear.

786
00:44:11,549 --> 00:44:13,583
What are you doing here?

787
00:44:14,753 --> 00:44:16,285
I've been working
       on this new song.

788
00:44:16,287 --> 00:44:19,355
- Wait, Madonna, I
       came here because

789
00:44:21,126 --> 00:44:25,595
I just had something that I
  really wanted to tell you.

790
00:44:25,597 --> 00:44:28,765
- I'm sorry, of
     course, what's wrong?

791
00:44:30,602 --> 00:44:32,502
- I shouldn't be here.

792
00:44:33,371 --> 00:44:34,937
- Gary, just spit it out.

793
00:44:34,939 --> 00:44:37,674
You're starting to freak me out.

794
00:44:38,743 --> 00:44:39,642
- Okay.

795
00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:46,783
Madonna, I don't want anything
 to come between me and Dan,

796
00:44:46,785 --> 00:44:48,518
but I have feelings.

797
00:44:52,123 --> 00:44:54,190
I just wanted to say it.

798
00:44:57,162 --> 00:44:58,394
This was stupid.

799
00:44:58,396 --> 00:45:00,963
I know you're with Dan, but...

800
00:45:06,404 --> 00:45:09,305
- Do you wanna
      hear my song still?

801
00:45:14,345 --> 00:45:16,379
- Are you gonna say
  anything about what I just--

802
00:45:16,381 --> 00:45:19,482
- I don't know what
      to say to that.

803
00:45:19,484 --> 00:45:21,384
I mean, I'm flattered.

804
00:45:24,189 --> 00:45:26,289
- I think I should go.

805
00:45:26,291 --> 00:45:28,424
I'm sorry, I shouldn't...

806
00:45:30,228 --> 00:45:31,994
- It kinda like shocked
    her kind of thing.

807
00:45:31,996 --> 00:45:34,330
I shouldn't have done that.

808
00:45:35,567 --> 00:45:37,667
I wanted her to, I
    wanted to be Chris Stein

809
00:45:37,669 --> 00:45:40,870
to her Debbie Harry,
     that kind of a thing.

810
00:45:44,342 --> 00:45:45,775
- She always wanted
      to do something,

811
00:45:45,777 --> 00:45:47,410
she wanted to be the
      center of attention,

812
00:45:47,412 --> 00:45:49,378
so, we did a thing where
   we walked around New York.

813
00:45:49,380 --> 00:45:51,114
We dressed in white, we
    walked around New York

814
00:45:51,116 --> 00:45:53,549
playing through a little
    Pignose portable amp

815
00:45:53,551 --> 00:45:54,751
that I was wearing.

816
00:45:54,753 --> 00:45:56,619
We plugged into it
     with a cable splitter

817
00:45:56,621 --> 00:46:00,056
so we were both playin'
    out of this one amp,

818
00:46:00,058 --> 00:46:03,960
and she was playin'
   chords, like these chords.

819
00:46:10,201 --> 00:46:11,834
But in rhythm.

820
00:46:14,706 --> 00:46:18,274
Like those All Along
     the Watchtower chords,

821
00:46:19,344 --> 00:46:21,744
but she did it, was
    doing it with an open E,

822
00:46:21,746 --> 00:46:24,113
'cause she didn't do
      the fingering then.

823
00:46:24,115 --> 00:46:25,681
- They would dress all in white.

824
00:46:25,683 --> 00:46:27,683
This was like during
    the Breakfast Club days,

825
00:46:27,685 --> 00:46:30,253
and they would take
      their Pignose amps
      and go in the subway

826
00:46:30,255 --> 00:46:33,990
and sort of busk, but
 electric instead of acoustic.

827
00:46:33,992 --> 00:46:35,258
I never saw them, though.

828
00:46:35,260 --> 00:46:37,226
They would go off, and
     they would come back,

829
00:46:37,228 --> 00:46:38,728
and they were both
       dressed in white

830
00:46:38,730 --> 00:46:41,330
with their Pignose
  amps.

831
00:46:41,332 --> 00:46:43,833
They'd gone into the
   city, gone into Manhattan,

832
00:46:43,835 --> 00:46:45,668
and just like played.

833
00:46:47,138 --> 00:46:49,872
I kind of admired them
   both, 'cause I was too shy

834
00:46:49,874 --> 00:46:54,443
to do that kind of
  stuff.

835
00:46:55,580 --> 00:46:57,446
- So, we'd
  walk down the street

836
00:46:57,448 --> 00:46:59,048
playin' our little...

837
00:47:01,586 --> 00:47:03,619
It might have been
       the other way.

838
00:47:03,621 --> 00:47:07,223
That was fun, that
       was so much fun.

839
00:47:07,225 --> 00:47:08,958
- There's a song
       that Madonna wrote

840
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,727
called Daddy Won't
     You Please Come Home,

841
00:47:11,729 --> 00:47:14,997
and it's a song that she
    writes about her father,

842
00:47:14,999 --> 00:47:19,402
and it's just her on guitar
  and her singing by herself,

843
00:47:19,404 --> 00:47:21,804
and it's a very tender song.

844
00:47:23,141 --> 00:47:25,107
I mean, ya know, she's
   singin' from this little,

845
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:27,243
tiny little space in
      her heart probably,

846
00:47:27,245 --> 00:47:29,745
which is a very tender spot.

847
00:47:31,049 --> 00:47:35,284
¶ Oh, boy, I got
        a letter today ¶

848
00:47:35,286 --> 00:47:39,655
¶ From my daddy, and
  here's what he had to say ¶

849
00:47:39,657 --> 00:47:42,959
¶ Baby, won't you
       please come home ¶

850
00:47:42,961 --> 00:47:48,030
¶ He said, baby won't
     you please come home ¶

851
00:47:49,133 --> 00:47:51,400
- Then there's a song
     called Danny's Song,

852
00:47:51,402 --> 00:47:55,338
which Madonna wrote
      about Danny Gilroy.

853
00:47:55,340 --> 00:47:59,408
It's a beautiful song all
   about Dan's character,

854
00:47:59,410 --> 00:48:02,879
and what it was like
    for her to be with him.

855
00:48:02,881 --> 00:48:05,915
It's a very heartfelt
     song, but it's funny.

856
00:48:05,917 --> 00:48:07,116
It's hilarious, ya know, like,

857
00:48:07,118 --> 00:48:08,651
he doesn't care
      too much for money.

858
00:48:08,653 --> 00:48:10,653
He leaves it there on the floor.

859
00:48:10,655 --> 00:48:15,658
¶ Daniel likes to run
     when the sky is blue ¶

860
00:48:17,462 --> 00:48:22,531
¶ And Daniel goes to the rooftop
when the day is through ¶

861
00:48:24,369 --> 00:48:27,803
¶ Well, he's watching
    the fleas in the alley ¶

862
00:48:27,805 --> 00:48:31,474
¶ When the phone
      rings on the floor ¶

863
00:48:31,476 --> 00:48:36,545
¶ But he doesn't pick it up
 'cause he knows who it's for ¶

864
00:48:39,350 --> 00:48:41,851
- I knew the exact moment when
 I thought she'd be famous.

865
00:48:41,853 --> 00:48:45,087
She was playing guitar,
strummin' really big and strong,

866
00:48:45,089 --> 00:48:48,157
and she had really short
    hair then, combed back.

867
00:48:48,159 --> 00:48:50,092
She looked like Bowie
     and Elvis to me,

868
00:48:50,094 --> 00:48:52,495
strummin' away, and
    singin', and here I was

869
00:48:52,497 --> 00:48:54,330
playin' the drums
       thinkin', hold on.

870
00:48:54,332 --> 00:48:56,632
I think I'm lookin' at
    somethin' that's gonna,

871
00:48:56,634 --> 00:48:58,034
something's gonna happen here.

872
00:49:01,839 --> 00:49:05,508
- The next song is a
     song which Danny wrote

873
00:49:08,146 --> 00:49:09,612
for Madonna to sing.

874
00:49:09,614 --> 00:49:11,013
It's called Moving Along.

875
00:49:11,015 --> 00:49:12,448
That's the song
       that we used to do

876
00:49:12,450 --> 00:49:15,084
before we went into Trouble,
  'cause this a slower.

877
00:49:17,755 --> 00:49:21,190
¶ Movin' along ¶

878
00:49:21,192 --> 00:49:23,759
¶ So move it along ¶

879
00:49:23,761 --> 00:49:27,596
¶ I cannot be late tonight ¶

880
00:49:27,598 --> 00:49:32,401
¶ But you believe in
     how my feet can fly ¶

881
00:49:32,403 --> 00:49:36,272
¶ I just got to be on time ¶

882
00:49:36,274 --> 00:49:41,043
- The next song here is
   a song called Simon Says.

883
00:49:41,045 --> 00:49:43,279
This is a great track.

884
00:49:43,281 --> 00:49:46,983
Danny put together a track
   and played it backwards.

885
00:49:46,985 --> 00:49:52,054
So it's like

886
00:49:54,225 --> 00:49:56,726
and Madonna sang
       it going forward.

887
00:49:59,464 --> 00:50:02,865
¶ Says Simon here
     come shine my shoes ¶

888
00:50:02,867 --> 00:50:06,836
¶ And you cry while you do
 it 'cause you got the blues ¶

889
00:50:06,838 --> 00:50:10,639
¶ You say that your
    heart's going to break ¶

890
00:50:10,641 --> 00:50:13,743
¶ Maybe soon you will
     see your mistake ¶

891
00:50:13,745 --> 00:50:15,411
- And it's the first
      time that Madonna

892
00:50:15,413 --> 00:50:18,314
heard herself on
    headphones on this one,

893
00:50:18,316 --> 00:50:21,250
and she has one of
    those moments, ya know,

894
00:50:21,252 --> 00:50:23,853
where it's like
    everything just hits it,

895
00:50:23,855 --> 00:50:26,255
and there's some kind
     of a vibration that's
     comin' outta ya.

896
00:50:26,257 --> 00:50:27,523
Ya don't know where
      it's comin' from.

897
00:50:27,525 --> 00:50:29,458
This is what she
      kinda felt, I think,

898
00:50:29,460 --> 00:50:30,993
when she had these
       headphones on,

899
00:50:30,995 --> 00:50:34,196
'cause shes' goin', wow, it
  sounds really great in here.

900
00:50:34,198 --> 00:50:35,431
¶ You said ¶

901
00:50:35,433 --> 00:50:38,434
¶ Feel so good now ¶

902
00:50:43,074 --> 00:50:44,974
- Madonna had started
     writing songs.

903
00:50:44,976 --> 00:50:47,910
So, once Gary and
      Mike were in there,

904
00:50:47,912 --> 00:50:50,046
she had a song called

905
00:50:50,048 --> 00:50:52,882
¶ Again and again,
       over and over ¶

906
00:50:52,884 --> 00:50:55,851
¶ Again and again,
       over and over ¶

907
00:50:55,853 --> 00:50:59,221
¶ Again and again,
       over and over ¶

908
00:50:59,223 --> 00:51:02,691
¶ Again and again,
       over and over ¶

909
00:51:02,693 --> 00:51:04,960
¶ Ah ah ah ¶

910
00:51:06,097 --> 00:51:08,330
- Ya know, she was
     just so cute, ya know?

911
00:51:08,332 --> 00:51:10,066
You could just imagine.

912
00:51:10,068 --> 00:51:12,001
¶ Again and again ¶

913
00:51:12,003 --> 00:51:14,103
And it was a showstopper.

914
00:51:14,105 --> 00:51:16,205
- We played one particular gig.

915
00:51:16,207 --> 00:51:18,240
It was kind of a pop-up place.

916
00:51:18,242 --> 00:51:21,377
It was called Bo's
       Space and it was

917
00:51:21,379 --> 00:51:23,612
in the West 20s in Manhattan.

918
00:51:23,614 --> 00:51:25,281
And we played a gig that night,

919
00:51:25,283 --> 00:51:27,716
and the crowd really enjoyed it,

920
00:51:27,718 --> 00:51:30,653
but there was a difference
 between when Madonna came out

921
00:51:30,655 --> 00:51:32,188
and did her two numbers.

922
00:51:32,190 --> 00:51:35,291
The crowd really went wild
   for those two numbers.

923
00:51:35,293 --> 00:51:37,593
So, I guess that got
   into Madonna's head like,

924
00:51:37,595 --> 00:51:40,796
hey, maybe I should sing more.

925
00:51:40,798 --> 00:51:43,966
- At the Bo's Space thing,
  I think that that was maybe

926
00:51:43,968 --> 00:51:47,303
the first time where
      she, I'm not sure,

927
00:51:48,573 --> 00:51:51,006
but felt like, whoa,
  there's somethin' happening

928
00:51:51,008 --> 00:51:54,844
with me and my microphone
   that isn't happening

929
00:51:54,846 --> 00:51:58,747
when I'm behind a keyboard
   with someone else singing.

930
00:52:01,085 --> 00:52:05,121
And that night in bed,
   it was, I felt a distance

931
00:52:06,157 --> 00:52:08,357
that I hadn't felt before.

932
00:52:09,894 --> 00:52:14,864
She was thinkin' about maybe
 she didn't wanna be in a band,

933
00:52:15,967 --> 00:52:18,701
or she wanted to front the band.

934
00:52:20,104 --> 00:52:25,141
- Before you knew it, Madonna
 and Mike came to me and said,

935
00:52:25,943 --> 00:52:27,910
we're thinking Madonna should,

936
00:52:27,912 --> 00:52:31,313
we think Madonna
    should do more numbers.

937
00:52:32,783 --> 00:52:34,316
We think we should flip it.

938
00:52:34,318 --> 00:52:36,719
We think Madonna should
    do eight out of the 10,

939
00:52:36,721 --> 00:52:38,354
and the Gilroys should do two.

940
00:52:38,356 --> 00:52:39,388
- Hey, guys.

941
00:52:39,390 --> 00:52:40,956
Do you have a sec?

942
00:52:42,894 --> 00:52:46,128
We have something that we
 would like to present to you.

943
00:52:46,130 --> 00:52:47,029
- Okay.

944
00:52:48,432 --> 00:52:51,333
- We were thinking that I
   could be the lead singer,

945
00:52:51,335 --> 00:52:54,770
that I could be up
    front most of the time.

946
00:52:54,772 --> 00:52:57,239
- This band has no lead singer,

947
00:52:57,241 --> 00:53:00,142
and why would we make
     you the lead singer?

948
00:53:00,144 --> 00:53:03,212
- We think that this is
   going to benefit the band.

949
00:53:03,214 --> 00:53:06,815
- They said, we think
     what we need to do

950
00:53:06,817 --> 00:53:10,686
is have Madonna be in
     front doin' her songs,

951
00:53:10,688 --> 00:53:13,455
and us be in the backup band.

952
00:53:13,457 --> 00:53:14,323
- No.

953
00:53:15,226 --> 00:53:17,593
It would change the whole...

954
00:53:18,996 --> 00:53:20,496
I don't know.

955
00:53:20,498 --> 00:53:22,464
Dan, what do you think?

956
00:53:23,868 --> 00:53:25,534
- I don't know.

957
00:53:25,536 --> 00:53:27,236
I mean, these are our songs.

958
00:53:27,238 --> 00:53:28,737
- Exactly.

959
00:53:28,739 --> 00:53:30,239
We're the songwriters.

960
00:53:30,241 --> 00:53:31,207
We're the main parts.

961
00:53:31,209 --> 00:53:32,374
- I've written songs.

962
00:53:32,376 --> 00:53:33,642
- You wrote two songs, Madonna.

963
00:53:33,644 --> 00:53:35,678
You can't do a gig
       with two songs.

964
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,947
- 'Cause that was
      sensitive, ya know?

965
00:53:37,949 --> 00:53:40,649
And the Gilroys weren't
    buyin' it at all.

966
00:53:40,651 --> 00:53:42,885
- We weren't into that.

967
00:53:42,887 --> 00:53:46,121
I didn't wanna be a side person.

968
00:53:46,123 --> 00:53:48,224
- I kinda went along with
   it, probably once again

969
00:53:48,226 --> 00:53:49,992
'cause I had a stupid
     crush on Madonna.

970
00:53:49,994 --> 00:53:52,661
It was just like a pipe dream.

971
00:53:52,663 --> 00:53:54,029
- She wanted to be out there.

972
00:53:54,031 --> 00:53:56,131
She wanted her songs to be sung.

973
00:53:56,133 --> 00:53:59,101
- Both sides went to
    their separate corners,

974
00:53:59,103 --> 00:54:02,771
and we decided to request 50/50.

975
00:54:04,175 --> 00:54:05,541
- What does that mean?

976
00:54:05,543 --> 00:54:08,344
- I mean like 50% of
     the time I'm up front,

977
00:54:08,346 --> 00:54:11,981
and 50% of the time one
    of you are up front.

978
00:54:11,983 --> 00:54:15,484
- No, that's not
       what this band is.

979
00:54:15,486 --> 00:54:16,952
- They said nope.

980
00:54:18,456 --> 00:54:19,989
So that was surprising.

981
00:54:19,991 --> 00:54:22,825
I woulda loved it if they
   had done that compromise.

982
00:54:22,827 --> 00:54:25,694
I think everyone
     would have been happy.

983
00:54:25,696 --> 00:54:26,595
- Okay.

984
00:54:28,833 --> 00:54:33,669
Okay, well, then I think that
 we will start our own band,

985
00:54:35,172 --> 00:54:40,242
and you can be up front all
  you would like in your band.

986
00:54:40,911 --> 00:54:43,245
Come on guys, let's go.

987
00:54:43,247 --> 00:54:46,482
- Mike and Gary thought
    that the best way to go

988
00:54:46,484 --> 00:54:48,050
would be go with Madonna.

989
00:54:48,052 --> 00:54:52,888
- So, it hurt a lot, but me,
  Mike, and Madonna split off.

990
00:54:58,929 --> 00:55:00,296
- To Mike and Gary
       it was obvious

991
00:55:00,298 --> 00:55:03,465
that this is an act
      that could happen.

992
00:55:03,467 --> 00:55:05,234
To Ed and I it was like this is

993
00:55:05,236 --> 00:55:07,870
this young upstart in the band.

994
00:55:09,273 --> 00:55:11,507
- Dan, it's gonna be fine.

995
00:55:13,878 --> 00:55:18,347
- For Dan and Madonna, it
 must have been quiet something

996
00:55:18,349 --> 00:55:20,482
because not only was
     the band breakin' up,

997
00:55:20,484 --> 00:55:25,554
but this was also the breakup
 of their being together.

998
00:55:26,090 --> 00:55:26,889
- It's over.

999
00:55:26,891 --> 00:55:28,824
You got what you wanted.

1000
00:55:30,594 --> 00:55:31,994
- What I wanted?

1001
00:55:33,197 --> 00:55:34,430
What the hell?

1002
00:55:35,599 --> 00:55:37,132
Dan, you're my brother, man.

1003
00:55:37,134 --> 00:55:38,701
You think I wanted to see
   you unhappy or something?

1004
00:55:38,703 --> 00:55:40,269
- No, Ed, I know.

1005
00:55:40,271 --> 00:55:44,673
You liked it better when
  it was just us living here.

1006
00:55:47,745 --> 00:55:48,911
There you go.

1007
00:55:50,681 --> 00:55:53,082
Everything's back to normal.

1008
00:55:57,154 --> 00:56:00,055
- Once the music
       breakup happened,

1009
00:56:01,659 --> 00:56:04,426
she was livin' at the
     synagogue with me,

1010
00:56:04,428 --> 00:56:07,930
and once the band
      broke up, it kinda,

1011
00:56:07,932 --> 00:56:10,299
it was all a big thing, ya know?

1012
00:56:10,301 --> 00:56:12,735
It was all one big thing,
   and the band breakup

1013
00:56:12,737 --> 00:56:17,272
signaled the beginning of
 everything breakin' up, yeah.

1014
00:56:23,547 --> 00:56:27,282
I was being brave,
      is what I was doing.

1015
00:56:27,284 --> 00:56:29,084
See, because it was
      obvious that Madonna

1016
00:56:29,086 --> 00:56:30,986
wasn't here permanently.

1017
00:56:30,988 --> 00:56:32,388
That was from the word go.

1018
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:34,923
You could see she was kind of,

1019
00:56:34,925 --> 00:56:37,793
and you know you grab her for
 a little while is what it was.

1020
00:56:37,795 --> 00:56:40,229
- So, Madonna, Mike,
      and I went off.

1021
00:56:40,231 --> 00:56:42,698
We had to find a place
     to rehearse and stuff.

1022
00:56:42,700 --> 00:56:44,600
So, we ended up at
       this place called

1023
00:56:44,602 --> 00:56:46,835
The Music Building
       on 38th Street,

1024
00:56:46,837 --> 00:56:49,338
a little below Port
   Authority in Times Square.

1025
00:56:49,340 --> 00:56:50,305
Aye.

1026
00:56:51,575 --> 00:56:53,208
- Let me see.

1027
00:56:54,311 --> 00:56:55,878
- The Music
  Building was a place

1028
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,746
where musicians
     could lease out rooms

1029
00:56:57,748 --> 00:57:01,917
to hold their equipment
    and to rehearse in.

1030
00:57:01,919 --> 00:57:05,921
- Well, The last time
     I was here was 1982.

1031
00:57:05,923 --> 00:57:09,625
So, it's really, really
    going down memory lane.

1032
00:57:09,627 --> 00:57:11,827
It's kinda freakin' me out.

1033
00:57:11,829 --> 00:57:14,096
- Madonna, Gary,
 and Mike couldn't afford

1034
00:57:14,098 --> 00:57:15,564
to rent a room on their own,

1035
00:57:15,566 --> 00:57:17,933
so they shared it
       with another band.

1036
00:57:17,935 --> 00:57:20,002
- But oh, this looks
      like the same horn

1037
00:57:20,004 --> 00:57:22,938
that Madonna was on a lot.

1038
00:57:22,940 --> 00:57:28,010
Always hustling, always
 hustling.

1039
00:57:29,246 --> 00:57:31,880
We called ourselves
      Madonna In The Sky.

1040
00:57:31,882 --> 00:57:34,316
There's no mention on the
internet of Madonna In The Sky,

1041
00:57:34,318 --> 00:57:36,652
but that was our
     short-lived threesome,

1042
00:57:36,654 --> 00:57:39,555
Mike Monahan,
      myself, and Madonna.

1043
00:57:40,925 --> 00:57:42,558
It was the first time she'd
  ever been the front person

1044
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,160
of a band, the
      total front person.

1045
00:57:45,162 --> 00:57:48,497
She was writing her little
 songs, playing rhythm guitar.

1046
00:57:48,499 --> 00:57:51,633
I was on bass and
     Mike was on the drums.

1047
00:57:51,635 --> 00:57:53,735
Songs like Safe Neighborhood.

1048
00:57:55,272 --> 00:57:57,105
¶ I live at the
       top of the hill ¶

1049
00:57:57,107 --> 00:57:59,408
¶ No one keeps me
     here against my will ¶

1050
00:57:59,410 --> 00:58:01,643
¶ I don't need no
      safe neighborhood ¶

1051
00:58:01,645 --> 00:58:04,613
¶ I got to feel good
      my own way, yeah ¶

1052
00:58:04,615 --> 00:58:07,783
- Yep, Madonna was
       pumpin' out songs.

1053
00:58:09,253 --> 00:58:11,787
I was doin' songs, too, but I
 didn't feel they fit the band.

1054
00:58:11,789 --> 00:58:14,389
I had my own singer
   songwriter thing goin' on.

1055
00:58:14,391 --> 00:58:18,293
I was always real super
    shy about presenting.

1056
00:58:18,295 --> 00:58:21,663
They didn't seem to fit,
   I was scared of rejection.

1057
00:58:21,665 --> 00:58:26,735
¶ Still life, 'til the
  breeze blows it all around ¶

1058
00:58:27,771 --> 00:58:31,573
¶ Still listening for a sign ¶

1059
00:58:35,513 --> 00:58:37,646
- Did you write that?

1060
00:58:37,648 --> 00:58:38,547
- Yeah.

1061
00:58:40,251 --> 00:58:43,619
Just a little somethin'
    I've been workin' on.

1062
00:58:43,621 --> 00:58:46,822
- Once in awhile Madonna
    would overhear a song,

1063
00:58:46,824 --> 00:58:48,757
or I would leave a tape around.

1064
00:58:48,759 --> 00:58:50,225
- I like it.

1065
00:58:50,227 --> 00:58:51,894
Keep working on it.

1066
00:58:57,935 --> 00:59:03,005
¶ Still life, at least until
the breeze blows it all around ¶

1067
00:59:04,775 --> 00:59:08,677
¶ Still listening for a sound ¶

1068
00:59:19,490 --> 00:59:21,390
- Come on, guys, come on.

1069
00:59:21,392 --> 00:59:23,358
- Here we go.
         - Come on.

1070
00:59:24,762 --> 00:59:26,995
- She would dress us.

1071
00:59:26,997 --> 00:59:29,031
We would go to
      Saint Mark's Place,

1072
00:59:29,033 --> 00:59:32,367
which was like the
       Bohemian center

1073
00:59:32,369 --> 00:59:34,469
of New York City at that time.
 - Come on.

1074
00:59:34,471 --> 00:59:35,704
Come on, now.

1075
00:59:37,274 --> 00:59:38,707
- And she'd buy jackets.

1076
00:59:38,709 --> 00:59:41,143
Buy purple pants, you're
 gonna wear these purple pants.

1077
00:59:41,145 --> 00:59:43,111
You're gonna wear
       this red jacket.

1078
00:59:43,113 --> 00:59:45,914
Here's a peach colored shirt
  with a checkerboard pattern,

1079
00:59:45,916 --> 00:59:48,650
then she'd do the same for Mike.

1080
00:59:49,687 --> 00:59:52,554
So, she was in
      charge of that, too.

1081
01:00:14,712 --> 01:00:16,111
- Wow, that's...

1082
01:00:18,716 --> 01:00:19,615
What?

1083
01:00:22,252 --> 01:00:23,585
- I think I was in on

1084
01:00:23,587 --> 01:00:25,554
her very first
   choreography of the band.

1085
01:00:25,556 --> 01:00:28,323
She said, "Let's do
    this song on our knees."

1086
01:00:28,325 --> 01:00:30,492
And Mike was like,
     Mike was on the drums,

1087
01:00:30,494 --> 01:00:31,426
so, he didn't have to.

1088
01:00:31,428 --> 01:00:33,962
He was like, "Don't do that.

1089
01:00:33,964 --> 01:00:35,597
"What are you doing?"

1090
01:00:35,599 --> 01:00:39,234
So, we're like just doin' this
 song, crawling on our knees

1091
01:00:39,236 --> 01:00:40,869
while I'm playin' bass
   and she's playing guitar.

1092
01:00:40,871 --> 01:00:43,171
I was all in, like, okay.

1093
01:00:43,173 --> 01:00:44,106
You think that works?

1094
01:00:44,108 --> 01:00:46,274
Yeah, it's artistic, ya know?

1095
01:00:46,276 --> 01:00:49,111
¶ Bam ba boom bomm ¶

1096
01:00:49,113 --> 01:00:52,047
Poor Mike, he had a
      full time job as a,

1097
01:00:52,049 --> 01:00:54,016
it was Metropolitan
      Life Insurance.

1098
01:00:54,018 --> 01:00:57,352
So, he'd come from
      a long day of work,

1099
01:00:57,354 --> 01:01:01,323
come to The Music
     Building to rehearse,

1100
01:01:01,325 --> 01:01:05,027
and sometimes the beat would
  slow down or something,

1101
01:01:05,029 --> 01:01:07,396
and Madonna would go, "Mike!"

1102
01:01:07,398 --> 01:01:09,064
Ya know, and he'd like.

1103
01:01:10,734 --> 01:01:13,235
And then one day he came
    in, one hot August day,

1104
01:01:13,237 --> 01:01:16,538
he came in and said, "I'm done."

1105
01:01:16,540 --> 01:01:18,440
- What are you doing?

1106
01:01:18,442 --> 01:01:19,675
- I'm lookin' for
       my other stick.

1107
01:01:19,677 --> 01:01:20,909
What does it look
       like I'm doin'?

1108
01:01:20,911 --> 01:01:22,177
- You just need to
      start being on time.

1109
01:01:22,179 --> 01:01:23,512
This is getting
       ridiculous, Mike.

1110
01:01:23,514 --> 01:01:25,714
It's becoming an every
     night thing with you.

1111
01:01:28,852 --> 01:01:30,335
- Screw this.

1112
01:01:30,336 --> 01:01:31,819
I'm sorry if I'm not keepin'
  up with your standards,

1113
01:01:31,822 --> 01:01:34,556
but I have a job, I got bills

1114
01:01:34,558 --> 01:01:37,225
and you just don't get it.
   - Mike.

1115
01:01:37,227 --> 01:01:38,093
Mike, stop.

1116
01:01:38,095 --> 01:01:40,162
Look, you're just tired.

1117
01:01:40,164 --> 01:01:41,630
- Yeah, I am.

1118
01:01:41,632 --> 01:01:43,165
I'm really frickin' tired.

1119
01:01:43,167 --> 01:01:44,966
I'm tired of this whole thing.

1120
01:01:44,968 --> 01:01:49,271
I'm tired of this band, and
  just, it's just everything.

1121
01:01:49,273 --> 01:01:52,774
I just can't, I
      can't do it anymore.

1122
01:01:52,776 --> 01:01:54,176
I'm sorry, bear.

1123
01:01:55,145 --> 01:01:56,044
I can't.

1124
01:01:59,083 --> 01:02:00,048
- So, he quit.

1125
01:02:00,050 --> 01:02:01,917
Mike left the band.

1126
01:02:01,919 --> 01:02:03,185
So, then there was
       a period of time

1127
01:02:03,187 --> 01:02:05,754
where it was just
       Madonna and me,

1128
01:02:05,756 --> 01:02:08,857
and she was always on the
 horn tryin' to get guitarists,

1129
01:02:08,859 --> 01:02:11,059
tryin' to hire people,
     find a new drummer.

1130
01:02:11,061 --> 01:02:12,694
- Back when
 Madonna was in college,

1131
01:02:12,696 --> 01:02:15,997
she had met a drummer
     named Stephen Bray.

1132
01:02:15,999 --> 01:02:17,599
She got in touch with
     him, and he decided

1133
01:02:17,601 --> 01:02:20,435
to come to New York
      to join the band.

1134
01:02:20,437 --> 01:02:23,071
- Steve knew Madonna
      from Michigan,

1135
01:02:23,073 --> 01:02:27,476
and he came to town, and that
 changed everything for them.

1136
01:02:27,478 --> 01:02:28,577
- He's a drummer.

1137
01:02:28,579 --> 01:02:30,378
He's a musician.

1138
01:02:30,380 --> 01:02:32,881
He's gonna come to New York.

1139
01:02:32,883 --> 01:02:34,516
Okay, good.

1140
01:02:34,518 --> 01:02:38,086
So, Stephen Bray
       came to New York.

1141
01:02:46,563 --> 01:02:48,497
- A lot of that
     CBGB's thing back then

1142
01:02:48,499 --> 01:02:50,532
was anyone can do this.

1143
01:02:50,534 --> 01:02:52,434
We just get up and let's
    do it, but Steve was,

1144
01:02:52,436 --> 01:02:55,103
Steve had chops, serious chops.

1145
01:02:56,340 --> 01:02:58,840
- I remember the
       first day he came.

1146
01:02:58,842 --> 01:03:01,743
He's kind of amazed,
      as many people are,

1147
01:03:01,745 --> 01:03:05,680
but you could tell
      he had to like, wow.

1148
01:03:05,682 --> 01:03:09,451
I thought Detroit was
   big, that kind of a thing.

1149
01:03:09,453 --> 01:03:12,220
He got into New York right away,

1150
01:03:12,222 --> 01:03:15,590
and then he sort of took
   over the role of arranger,

1151
01:03:15,592 --> 01:03:19,161
you know, the leader
     of the group, sort of.

1152
01:03:19,163 --> 01:03:20,629
- And
  now, this new lineup

1153
01:03:20,631 --> 01:03:22,998
needed to find
       themselves a name.

1154
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,700
- How about we just
      call it Madonna?

1155
01:03:25,702 --> 01:03:27,235
- Yeah.

1156
01:03:27,237 --> 01:03:28,136
I love it.

1157
01:03:28,939 --> 01:03:30,772
- I wanted to call it Madonna

1158
01:03:30,774 --> 01:03:32,808
'cause that made
      perfect sense to me.

1159
01:03:32,810 --> 01:03:33,975
- I hate that idea.

1160
01:03:33,977 --> 01:03:34,943
- Why not?

1161
01:03:34,945 --> 01:03:37,612
It's like rock and roll, man.

1162
01:03:37,614 --> 01:03:38,847
You wanna stir things up.

1163
01:03:38,849 --> 01:03:40,148
That's what we want.

1164
01:03:40,150 --> 01:03:42,918
- I'm not going to be in
    a band called Madonna.

1165
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:44,352
- That'll piss people off,

1166
01:03:44,354 --> 01:03:46,955
people who believe in
  Jesus's mother or whatever.

1167
01:03:46,957 --> 01:03:48,924
It'll piss them off.

1168
01:03:48,926 --> 01:03:50,959
How dare she call
       herself Madonna?

1169
01:03:50,961 --> 01:03:54,863
And that was her real name,
  that's the funny part.

1170
01:03:54,865 --> 01:03:58,099
- How about we call
      ourselves No Name.

1171
01:04:00,103 --> 01:04:01,403
How about that?

1172
01:04:03,006 --> 01:04:05,974
- Wait, what's No Name
     spelled backwards?

1173
01:04:05,976 --> 01:04:06,875
Emanon?

1174
01:04:09,112 --> 01:04:11,246
How about Emmy for short?

1175
01:04:11,248 --> 01:04:14,182
It was actually a nickname
   I had growing up, too.

1176
01:04:14,184 --> 01:04:17,319
- I didn't wanna
     have that name, Emmy.

1177
01:04:18,388 --> 01:04:19,287
- Not bad.

1178
01:04:20,757 --> 01:04:23,291
I'll go for that one.

1179
01:04:23,293 --> 01:04:24,192
Emmy.

1180
01:04:25,162 --> 01:04:27,429
- Okay, so, we'll call it Emmy.

1181
01:04:27,431 --> 01:04:29,164
What a name.

1182
01:04:29,166 --> 01:04:32,000
What a horrible name for
 a rock group.

1183
01:04:39,977 --> 01:04:41,176
- The Music Building

1184
01:04:41,178 --> 01:04:43,578
was not designated
       for residents,

1185
01:04:43,580 --> 01:04:46,948
but with nowhere else to
    live, eating, sleeping,

1186
01:04:46,950 --> 01:04:51,953
and even bathing in the building
was Madonna's only option.

1187
01:05:00,264 --> 01:05:02,864
- We kinda lived at The
  Music Building for a while.

1188
01:05:02,866 --> 01:05:04,299
Ya know, that's how bad it was.

1189
01:05:04,301 --> 01:05:06,768
It was really the salad days.

1190
01:05:13,110 --> 01:05:14,676
We were living in the studio.

1191
01:05:14,678 --> 01:05:16,111
We didn't have an apartment.

1192
01:05:16,113 --> 01:05:20,215
I had one, but I got kicked
  out of it or whatever.

1193
01:05:22,586 --> 01:05:24,352
- But even this
 little bit of security

1194
01:05:24,354 --> 01:05:27,822
would soon be pulled
      out from under them.

1195
01:05:29,493 --> 01:05:31,927
- All of a sudden, we
     were out of the room.

1196
01:05:31,929 --> 01:05:35,797
We were told the other
   group took over the lease.

1197
01:05:35,799 --> 01:05:37,365
You're out, you're out.

1198
01:05:37,367 --> 01:05:38,700
It's like, what?

1199
01:05:38,702 --> 01:05:39,834
- We're just being
    kicked out of the room.

1200
01:05:39,836 --> 01:05:40,735
That's all I know.

1201
01:05:40,737 --> 01:05:41,703
- They can't do that.

1202
01:05:41,705 --> 01:05:43,571
We have a lease, don't we?

1203
01:05:43,573 --> 01:05:46,007
- I don't know how it
  happened, even to this day.

1204
01:05:46,009 --> 01:05:48,109
- Brian Symms
 was a guitar player

1205
01:05:48,111 --> 01:05:51,046
that was renting a space in
 another room in the building,

1206
01:05:51,048 --> 01:05:53,548
and was not currently
     committed to any band,

1207
01:05:53,550 --> 01:05:55,317
which was perfect timing.

1208
01:05:55,319 --> 01:05:57,786
- Let's go talk
       to him right now.

1209
01:05:57,788 --> 01:06:01,389
- We needed a room, Brian
  was free, he had the talent.

1210
01:06:01,391 --> 01:06:04,893
So, that's how we
    formed that Emmy group.

1211
01:06:08,932 --> 01:06:10,298
¶ Emmy ¶
            ¶ Emmy ¶

1212
01:06:10,300 --> 01:06:11,666
¶ She'd submit the call ¶

1213
01:06:11,668 --> 01:06:13,134
¶ It's so hot behind a wall ¶

1214
01:06:13,136 --> 01:06:14,502
¶ But she keeps it in a ball ¶

1215
01:06:14,504 --> 01:06:16,004
¶ Emmy ¶
            ¶ Emmy ¶

1216
01:06:16,006 --> 01:06:17,505
¶ You'll never break inside ¶

1217
01:06:17,507 --> 01:06:19,908
¶ But if you wanna try, you
  won't make it out alive ¶

1218
01:06:19,910 --> 01:06:21,376
¶ Emmy ¶
            ¶ Emmy ¶

1219
01:06:21,378 --> 01:06:24,346
¶ She'll slay you with a
 glance, put you in a trance ¶

1220
01:06:24,348 --> 01:06:26,214
¶ Are you sure you
    wanna dance with Emmy ¶

1221
01:06:26,216 --> 01:06:27,315
¶ Emmy ¶

1222
01:06:27,317 --> 01:06:28,783
¶ She's gonna steal your heart ¶

1223
01:06:28,785 --> 01:06:31,453
¶ And she wants to know
    that you want hers ¶

1224
01:06:31,455 --> 01:06:33,922
- She was churnin'
       out the songs,

1225
01:06:33,924 --> 01:06:37,392
but Steve would arrange
    them, so she'd come up

1226
01:06:37,394 --> 01:06:39,094
with the chords and the words.

1227
01:06:39,096 --> 01:06:41,463
Steve would write a rhythm.

1228
01:06:41,465 --> 01:06:43,732
I would come up
       with the bass part

1229
01:06:43,734 --> 01:06:48,003
or Steve would suggest a
  bass part, same with Brian.

1230
01:06:48,005 --> 01:06:49,437
He would come up with
     his own guitar part,

1231
01:06:49,439 --> 01:06:50,271
- I gotcha.
      - or Steve would say

1232
01:06:50,273 --> 01:06:51,673
try this and that.

1233
01:06:51,675 --> 01:06:53,174
So, he was sorta the arranger

1234
01:06:53,176 --> 01:06:54,642
- I got it.
        - at that point.

1235
01:06:54,644 --> 01:06:57,712
We were gettin' gigs around.

1236
01:06:57,714 --> 01:07:00,949
We had a New Year's Eve
  gig once near Times Square.

1237
01:07:00,951 --> 01:07:02,117
That was crazy.

1238
01:07:02,119 --> 01:07:03,651
¶ But if you wanna try ¶

1239
01:07:03,653 --> 01:07:05,420
- With each gig,
 the band was getting better

1240
01:07:05,422 --> 01:07:07,989
and they were working hard
 to put themselves on the map.

1241
01:07:07,991 --> 01:07:09,124
¶ Put you in a trance ¶

1242
01:07:09,126 --> 01:07:10,392
¶ Are you sure you wanna dance ¶

1243
01:07:10,394 --> 01:07:12,060
- She was on the
        phone every day.

1244
01:07:12,062 --> 01:07:13,762
She was the most aggressive,

1245
01:07:13,764 --> 01:07:17,032
you know other people
   just sorta like, you know,

1246
01:07:17,034 --> 01:07:18,533
they try to move
      their careers along,

1247
01:07:18,535 --> 01:07:21,870
but she was super aggressive
  about it on a daily basis.

1248
01:07:21,872 --> 01:07:24,105
Always on the phone
      trying to get a gig,

1249
01:07:24,107 --> 01:07:27,042
trying to get a
      manager, every day.

1250
01:07:27,044 --> 01:07:29,310
Madonna was like having
    a tiger by the tail.

1251
01:07:29,312 --> 01:07:32,647
She was only like 21
      or 22 at the time.

1252
01:07:33,917 --> 01:07:35,183
¶ But don't expect
      to stack it right ¶

1253
01:07:35,185 --> 01:07:37,018
¶ You'll never
       ever see her cry ¶

1254
01:07:37,020 --> 01:07:39,054
- Hey, hey sorry.

1255
01:07:39,056 --> 01:07:43,625
You work with that music
 woman, the August Management.

1256
01:07:44,428 --> 01:07:46,061
- August Artists.

1257
01:07:46,063 --> 01:07:47,562
I'm her partner, actually.

1258
01:07:47,564 --> 01:07:51,299
- Oh, could you please
     give her this tape?

1259
01:07:51,301 --> 01:07:53,368
I'd really love for her
    to listen to our band.

1260
01:07:53,370 --> 01:07:55,070
- She's
  really busy right now.

1261
01:07:55,072 --> 01:07:57,372
I'm not sure she's
       gonna have time,

1262
01:07:57,374 --> 01:07:59,841
but I'll try to
       give it a listen.

1263
01:07:59,843 --> 01:08:01,509
- Well, we're really good.

1264
01:08:01,511 --> 01:08:03,945
Our name is Emmy, and I
    think that if you just

1265
01:08:03,947 --> 01:08:07,115
listen to the tape
       you would agree.

1266
01:08:07,117 --> 01:08:11,019
¶ She's a little heartbreaker ¶

1267
01:08:31,741 --> 01:08:33,041
- Yeah, I can do it.

1268
01:08:33,043 --> 01:08:34,509
- Mm.

1269
01:08:34,511 --> 01:08:36,411
- I stuck my finger in it,

1270
01:08:36,413 --> 01:08:39,681
and I got burned.

1271
01:08:39,683 --> 01:08:41,082
- Oh, yeah.

1272
01:08:41,084 --> 01:08:43,918
- Did you ever get burned?

1273
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:47,722
- Not yet, no, but I bet
    you it'll feel familiar.

1274
01:08:51,061 --> 01:08:53,094
- That's a lie.

1275
01:08:53,096 --> 01:08:55,196
You've gotten burned.

1276
01:08:55,198 --> 01:08:56,798
Even Joan of Arc
      could tell you that.

1277
01:08:57,968 --> 01:09:00,502
She knows a singed
    body when she sees one.

1278
01:09:00,504 --> 01:09:03,505
- Oh, yeah, I've
       seen the pictures.

1279
01:09:05,208 --> 01:09:07,842
- Madonna found
 a temporary place to stay,

1280
01:09:07,844 --> 01:09:12,914
and was trying to find work,
 but things were looking bleak.

1281
01:09:13,984 --> 01:09:15,750
- There was a very,
      very cold night.

1282
01:09:15,752 --> 01:09:18,119
She was renting a room
     just around the corner

1283
01:09:18,121 --> 01:09:20,188
from The Music Building.

1284
01:09:20,190 --> 01:09:21,756
It was like two degrees out,

1285
01:09:21,758 --> 01:09:24,726
it was like the coldest
    day of the winter.

1286
01:09:24,728 --> 01:09:25,627
- Hello?

1287
01:09:26,596 --> 01:09:28,429
- And the heat in that building

1288
01:09:28,431 --> 01:09:30,765
she was renting a room
     in, it wasn't working.

1289
01:09:30,767 --> 01:09:33,535
So, I went over there, and she
 was like in a fetal position.

1290
01:09:33,537 --> 01:09:34,435
- Hey.

1291
01:09:36,072 --> 01:09:38,206
- Just really freezing.

1292
01:09:38,208 --> 01:09:42,343
"I can't stand this."

1293
01:09:43,547 --> 01:09:45,513
- What am I doing here?

1294
01:09:46,816 --> 01:09:48,950
I'm not getting anywhere.

1295
01:09:49,886 --> 01:09:51,519
What am I gonna do?

1296
01:09:52,389 --> 01:09:53,821
- She was so depressed, though.

1297
01:09:53,823 --> 01:09:56,524
When she was like,

1298
01:09:56,526 --> 01:09:58,493
she was ready to
      go back to Detroit.

1299
01:09:58,495 --> 01:10:00,528
She really was, she
      was ready to bag

1300
01:10:00,530 --> 01:10:03,698
the whole Music Building,
   the whole music thing.

1301
01:10:03,700 --> 01:10:08,269
She was so close to really
  bailing on the whole thing.

1302
01:10:11,441 --> 01:10:14,275
- I think maybe I
       should call Dan.

1303
01:10:18,348 --> 01:10:20,281
- "Go out to the synagogue?

1304
01:10:20,283 --> 01:10:22,483
"You think that he,"
  'cause they'd been split up

1305
01:10:22,485 --> 01:10:24,719
for X amount of months.

1306
01:10:24,721 --> 01:10:25,954
- It was cold.

1307
01:10:27,190 --> 01:10:30,758
I didn't think she felt
    well and she asked me

1308
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:33,995
if she could come over
    to the synagogue again.

1309
01:10:33,997 --> 01:10:36,197
This is after our
     breakup and of course

1310
01:10:36,199 --> 01:10:37,865
I said, yeah, okay.

1311
01:10:39,669 --> 01:10:41,769
- He was probably heartbroken
 when they split up

1312
01:10:41,771 --> 01:10:45,340
a little bit, but he
     didn't hold a grudge.

1313
01:10:46,476 --> 01:10:48,676
- Madonna
  went back to Corona,

1314
01:10:48,678 --> 01:10:52,280
back to the synagogue,
     back to Dan.

1315
01:10:53,917 --> 01:10:56,184
- So she came over
      for maybe two days.

1316
01:10:56,186 --> 01:10:59,988
We went running in the
     park as we used to do.

1317
01:11:05,128 --> 01:11:08,096
She said, "I feel like
     I'm going backwards."

1318
01:11:08,098 --> 01:11:10,565
Meaning being here in Corona,

1319
01:11:14,004 --> 01:11:18,072
but it was a nice
   little, I don't wanna say

1320
01:11:18,074 --> 01:11:22,644
it was like the baby bird
  returning to the nest again.

1321
01:11:25,115 --> 01:11:28,716
It was a fun couple
      of days, but again,

1322
01:11:28,718 --> 01:11:31,019
it brought back that, it
   was like a breakup again.

1323
01:11:31,021 --> 01:11:33,955
How many of these can, ya know?

1324
01:11:33,957 --> 01:11:36,791
It was a little
       like that for me.

1325
01:11:37,894 --> 01:11:39,360
So, off she went.

1326
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:48,036
- I think they had a nice
   healing kind of a thing.

1327
01:11:50,707 --> 01:11:54,242
Dan probably helped her stay
  in the game a little bit,

1328
01:11:54,244 --> 01:11:57,345
and I helped to the
      extent that I could.

1329
01:11:57,347 --> 01:11:58,813
I didn't want her to
      go back to Detroit,

1330
01:11:58,815 --> 01:12:02,517
but I could tell she was,
   it was not happening.

1331
01:12:02,519 --> 01:12:05,053
She wanted it to happen now.

1332
01:12:05,055 --> 01:12:06,254
- Adam, Adam.

1333
01:12:09,292 --> 01:12:11,759
- Listen, you can't keep
 following me around like this.

1334
01:12:11,761 --> 01:12:13,961
You're hounding me.
  - No, I'm not following you.

1335
01:12:13,963 --> 01:12:15,396
Did you give it to her?

1336
01:12:15,398 --> 01:12:16,497
- Yeah, I gave her your tape.

1337
01:12:16,499 --> 01:12:18,433
She's very busy,
        like I told you.

1338
01:12:18,435 --> 01:12:20,401
Eventually, maybe
     she'll have a chance,

1339
01:12:20,403 --> 01:12:22,403
but not right now.
       - No.

1340
01:12:22,405 --> 01:12:24,138
Not eventually.

1341
01:12:24,140 --> 01:12:26,941
- I think Madonna knew
   that there was this woman

1342
01:12:26,943 --> 01:12:30,378
who had a studio
      on the third floor.

1343
01:12:30,380 --> 01:12:33,448
So, I think she wanted
    her to come see our gig

1344
01:12:33,450 --> 01:12:35,650
and maybe sign us up.

1345
01:12:35,652 --> 01:12:39,787
- In February of 1981, Adam's
 partner, Camille Barbone,

1346
01:12:39,789 --> 01:12:42,323
was finally convinced to check
 out the band's performance

1347
01:12:42,325 --> 01:12:44,692
at Max's Kansas City.

1348
01:12:47,464 --> 01:12:50,465
- I had worked very
  hard

1349
01:12:50,467 --> 01:12:52,533
to get us a gig at
       Max's Kansas City.

1350
01:12:52,535 --> 01:12:57,238
That was a hard place to
   get a gig at in 1980, '81,

1351
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:01,109
but I also sensed
  something and I was saying,

1352
01:13:01,111 --> 01:13:04,078
Madonna, I don't wanna
     rehearse for a month

1353
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:05,680
and do this Max's
       Kansas City gig

1354
01:13:05,682 --> 01:13:08,516
if we're just gonna
     split up the next day,

1355
01:13:08,518 --> 01:13:10,251
I remember saying.

1356
01:13:10,253 --> 01:13:11,786
No, no, no.

1357
01:13:11,788 --> 01:13:15,690
- So, I went to see Emmy
   with Steve Bray and Gary.

1358
01:13:16,860 --> 01:13:19,293
It was interesting,
     because you could see

1359
01:13:19,295 --> 01:13:21,095
this gradual shift in direction,

1360
01:13:21,097 --> 01:13:23,631
that it was becoming
      more about her.

1361
01:13:34,077 --> 01:13:35,443
- We did the gig at Max's.

1362
01:13:35,445 --> 01:13:37,378
She was great, she
       was like crazy.

1363
01:13:37,380 --> 01:13:41,115
She was walkin' out on
     the tables, ya know?

1364
01:13:41,117 --> 01:13:42,750
Madonna was like in
     good form that night.

1365
01:13:42,752 --> 01:13:47,455
She was like really, had a
  good rapport with the band.

1366
01:13:47,457 --> 01:13:50,091
She was just like
       really doing good.

1367
01:13:50,093 --> 01:13:51,692
She was good that night.

1368
01:13:51,694 --> 01:13:54,228
¶ She's a little love taker ¶

1369
01:13:54,230 --> 01:13:57,198
¶ She's a little body shaker ¶

1370
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:59,967
¶ She's a little heartbreaker ¶

1371
01:13:59,969 --> 01:14:04,305
¶ Troublemaker,
  troublemaker, troublemaker ¶

1372
01:14:04,307 --> 01:14:06,808
¶ Love taker ¶

1373
01:14:06,810 --> 01:14:09,777
¶ Body shaker ¶

1374
01:14:09,779 --> 01:14:11,746
¶ Heartbreaker ¶

1375
01:14:11,748 --> 01:14:14,115
¶ Troublemaker,
  troublemaker, troublemaker ¶

1376
01:14:14,117 --> 01:14:15,249
- She blew Camille away.

1377
01:14:15,251 --> 01:14:17,285
I knew Camille was there.

1378
01:14:17,287 --> 01:14:18,319
I was all for it, too.

1379
01:14:18,321 --> 01:14:19,420
¶ She keeps it in a fog. ¶

1380
01:14:19,422 --> 01:14:20,988
¶ Emmy ¶
            ¶ Emmy ¶

1381
01:14:20,990 --> 01:14:22,056
¶ You'll never break inside ¶

1382
01:14:22,058 --> 01:14:23,191
¶ But if you wanna try ¶

1383
01:14:23,193 --> 01:14:24,792
¶ You won't make it out alive ¶
- But

1384
01:14:24,794 --> 01:14:26,360
Camille didn't want the band.

1385
01:14:26,362 --> 01:14:27,762
¶ She'll slay you
       with a glance ¶

1386
01:14:27,764 --> 01:14:29,063
¶ She'll put you in a trance ¶

1387
01:14:29,065 --> 01:14:30,531
¶ Are you sure you wanna dance ¶

1388
01:14:30,533 --> 01:14:33,734
- So, the next morning, I'm
just like in our rehearsal room.

1389
01:14:33,736 --> 01:14:36,404
These two guys come in
    and say, "Did you hear?"

1390
01:14:36,406 --> 01:14:38,573
¶ She wants to know
      that you want hers ¶

1391
01:14:38,575 --> 01:14:41,642
- Your band is breaking up.

1392
01:14:41,644 --> 01:14:44,078
¶ She wants to know
      that you want hers ¶

1393
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:46,347
- So I never even got
 it from the horse's mouth.

1394
01:14:51,521 --> 01:14:53,921
- Madonna later
      told me that Camille

1395
01:14:53,923 --> 01:14:56,891
had offered to manage
     her that night.

1396
01:14:56,893 --> 01:15:00,461
- I tried to play it cool
 like, yeah, whatever, ya know?

1397
01:15:00,463 --> 01:15:02,163
I felt bad about it.

1398
01:15:03,433 --> 01:15:05,233
I had laid it out there.

1399
01:15:05,235 --> 01:15:06,734
I don't wanna rehearse
     for the next month

1400
01:15:06,736 --> 01:15:09,003
if we're just gonna
      split the next day.

1401
01:15:09,005 --> 01:15:12,607
When that happens, it
    kind of pisses you off.

1402
01:15:12,609 --> 01:15:13,508
- Hey.

1403
01:15:15,211 --> 01:15:16,077
Madonna!

1404
01:15:17,347 --> 01:15:19,313
So, that's it?

1405
01:15:19,315 --> 01:15:21,782
You did exactly what you
    said you wouldn't do.

1406
01:15:21,784 --> 01:15:23,584
Oh no, I'm not
      gonna drop the band.

1407
01:15:23,586 --> 01:15:25,887
Well, this could be
      good for all of us.

1408
01:15:25,889 --> 01:15:27,488
No, no, Madonna.

1409
01:15:27,490 --> 01:15:28,623
You can't just ignore me, okay?

1410
01:15:28,625 --> 01:15:29,524
This is wrong.

1411
01:15:29,526 --> 01:15:30,424
- Gary!

1412
01:15:35,899 --> 01:15:38,132
What do you want me to do?

1413
01:15:45,475 --> 01:15:46,908
- She just turned
       and walked away.

1414
01:15:46,910 --> 01:15:49,977
I made her very uncomfortable.

1415
01:15:52,482 --> 01:15:53,781
- This isn't over, Madonna.

1416
01:15:53,783 --> 01:15:57,618
You can't just do
       whatever you want.

1417
01:15:57,620 --> 01:15:59,220
- You could tell she was
    embarrassed about it,

1418
01:15:59,222 --> 01:16:01,923
but she had to do
      what she had to do.

1419
01:16:01,925 --> 01:16:03,891
- Please open the door.

1420
01:16:07,263 --> 01:16:08,930
- It was very
    embarrassing, actually,

1421
01:16:08,932 --> 01:16:10,798
when I think back on it.

1422
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:15,803
It was like, let it go,
 Gary, let it go.

1423
01:16:41,431 --> 01:16:42,797
- It was this guy, you know?

1424
01:16:42,799 --> 01:16:43,631
- Yeah.

1425
01:16:43,633 --> 01:16:44,832
- I said, you do it.

1426
01:16:44,834 --> 01:16:45,800
I'm gonna be sick.

1427
01:16:45,802 --> 01:16:46,968
So, I walked out.

1428
01:16:46,970 --> 01:16:48,369
- Yeah.

1429
01:16:48,371 --> 01:16:51,172
- Well, the next
        day I came back.

1430
01:16:53,876 --> 01:16:54,942
- You threw up

1431
01:16:54,944 --> 01:16:56,210
on the guy.
  - No.

1432
01:16:56,212 --> 01:16:59,080
No, but he had saved
      one part of the rat

1433
01:16:59,082 --> 01:17:00,781
for me to scalp.

1434
01:17:00,783 --> 01:17:02,083
Guess what it was?

1435
01:17:02,085 --> 01:17:03,084
- I can guess.

1436
01:17:03,086 --> 01:17:05,186
- They were all bloaty.

1437
01:17:05,188 --> 01:17:06,253
It was icky.

1438
01:17:07,690 --> 01:17:10,458
I don't mean to be talkin'
   about these things,

1439
01:17:10,460 --> 01:17:12,493
but it's reality, ya know?

1440
01:17:12,495 --> 01:17:15,229
Reality's gotta be talked about.

1441
01:17:16,666 --> 01:17:19,700
- In March of
 1981, Camille and Adam

1442
01:17:19,702 --> 01:17:23,638
signed Madonna to their
    management company.

1443
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:25,306
Madonna immediately
      began working

1444
01:17:25,308 --> 01:17:27,775
on new music, ready
      to present herself

1445
01:17:27,777 --> 01:17:30,845
for the first time
       as a solo artist.

1446
01:17:32,348 --> 01:17:34,215
Using her industry contacts,

1447
01:17:34,217 --> 01:17:37,218
Camille began showcasing
    Madonna in nightclubs

1448
01:17:37,220 --> 01:17:39,286
around New York and Long Island.

1449
01:17:39,288 --> 01:17:42,356
One of those clubs
     was called U.S. Blues.

1450
01:17:42,358 --> 01:17:44,825
Camille hired
   photographer George DuBose

1451
01:17:44,827 --> 01:17:46,827
to capture this
      performance on film.

1452
01:17:46,829 --> 01:17:49,163
Her look was becoming
     more stylized

1453
01:17:49,165 --> 01:17:53,401
as she developed her new
   singular onstage persona.

1454
01:17:55,004 --> 01:17:57,304
Camille had also
      arranged for Madonna

1455
01:17:57,306 --> 01:18:00,041
to record a demo tape
     of some new songs.

1456
01:18:00,043 --> 01:18:02,743
The tape included songs
    like Love On The Run,

1457
01:18:02,745 --> 01:18:05,479
High Society, and Get Up.

1458
01:18:05,481 --> 01:18:07,481
¶ Get up ¶

1459
01:18:07,483 --> 01:18:09,450
¶ Get up ¶

1460
01:18:09,452 --> 01:18:11,419
¶ Get up ¶

1461
01:18:11,421 --> 01:18:13,487
¶ Get up ¶

1462
01:18:13,489 --> 01:18:15,456
¶ Get up ¶

1463
01:18:15,458 --> 01:18:17,358
¶ Get up ¶

1464
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:19,360
¶ Get up ¶

1465
01:18:25,868 --> 01:18:28,069
- Madonna was
 flourishing as an artist,

1466
01:18:28,071 --> 01:18:30,171
but the relationship
    between she and Camille

1467
01:18:30,173 --> 01:18:33,708
took a bad turn, and Madonna
  no longer wanted Camille

1468
01:18:33,710 --> 01:18:36,010
to be her manager.

1469
01:18:36,012 --> 01:18:37,344
- And the rest of the
    breakups that happened,

1470
01:18:37,346 --> 01:18:38,579
she had to go off on her own.

1471
01:18:38,581 --> 01:18:39,580
That was just the way it was.

1472
01:18:42,585 --> 01:18:44,318
- No
  longer having a band,

1473
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:46,520
and no longer having
      management support,

1474
01:18:46,522 --> 01:18:48,989
all that Madonna
      had was a demo tape

1475
01:18:48,991 --> 01:18:51,225
that she recorded
       with Stephen Bray,

1476
01:18:51,227 --> 01:18:54,562
which included a song
     called Everybody.

1477
01:18:55,631 --> 01:18:57,331
Madonna began bringing
     that demo tape

1478
01:18:57,333 --> 01:18:59,467
around to the dance
      clubs in New York

1479
01:18:59,469 --> 01:19:01,602
hoping to get a
       deejay to play it,

1480
01:19:01,604 --> 01:19:06,674
places like Danceteria and
  deejays like Freddy Bastone.

1481
01:19:07,343 --> 01:19:08,876
- I encountered Madonna

1482
01:19:08,878 --> 01:19:11,712
21st Street, Danceteria.

1483
01:19:11,714 --> 01:19:14,782
She was trying to
       get a record deal.

1484
01:19:17,754 --> 01:19:21,122
The deejays that were playing
 on the weekend were myself,

1485
01:19:21,124 --> 01:19:23,491
Mark Kamins, and it
     didn't even have to do

1486
01:19:23,493 --> 01:19:24,925
with the weekends.

1487
01:19:24,927 --> 01:19:26,427
She was coming, you know,
   seven nights a week,

1488
01:19:26,429 --> 01:19:27,595
Danceteria was open.

1489
01:19:27,597 --> 01:19:30,197
She was there seven
      nights a week,

1490
01:19:30,199 --> 01:19:33,834
and she was peddling
    her wares, so to speak.

1491
01:19:37,173 --> 01:19:39,173
I wasn't interested.

1492
01:19:39,175 --> 01:19:41,575
I know I look
      foolish saying that,

1493
01:19:41,577 --> 01:19:43,544
but it's the truth,
     and I'm not gonna say

1494
01:19:43,546 --> 01:19:46,881
I thought she was gonna be
   a genius, 'cause I didn't.

1495
01:19:46,883 --> 01:19:48,949
It wasn't my cup of tea.

1496
01:19:48,951 --> 01:19:52,453
I'd be stupid saying
   this now, but I probably,

1497
01:19:52,455 --> 01:19:56,657
if it came by me again,
    knowing what I know now,

1498
01:19:56,659 --> 01:19:59,260
I'd sign it, but
       if I didn't know,

1499
01:19:59,262 --> 01:20:02,096
I'd probably still say no way.

1500
01:20:02,098 --> 01:20:04,999
This is just like
       pop dance stuff.

1501
01:20:07,770 --> 01:20:10,437
The main deejay who took an
  interest was Mark Kamins.

1502
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:11,739
I didn't take an interest.

1503
01:20:11,741 --> 01:20:16,110
He was one of the most
    groundbreaking deejays,

1504
01:20:16,112 --> 01:20:18,612
and he had the ears
      and the foresight

1505
01:20:18,614 --> 01:20:21,048
to know what was gonna
    happen with that artist.

1506
01:20:21,050 --> 01:20:25,119
He brought it to his company
  that he was working with

1507
01:20:25,121 --> 01:20:27,354
at the time, Sire Records.

1508
01:20:28,491 --> 01:20:29,757
- At the
  helm of Sire Records

1509
01:20:29,759 --> 01:20:32,560
was a man named Seymour Stein.

1510
01:20:32,562 --> 01:20:34,395
- Mark kind of had
       a deal with Sire

1511
01:20:34,397 --> 01:20:38,632
and Seymour that he would
   bring in records or acts

1512
01:20:39,602 --> 01:20:41,836
and give it to them first.

1513
01:20:43,206 --> 01:20:45,973
So, when he got Madonna,
   he brought it to Seymour,

1514
01:20:45,975 --> 01:20:49,310
and Seymour took
     Madonna on right away.

1515
01:20:54,550 --> 01:20:56,317
- To Stephen
 Bray's disappointment,

1516
01:20:56,319 --> 01:20:58,185
the record deal wasn't
     likely to happen

1517
01:20:58,187 --> 01:21:00,221
unless Mark Kamins produced,

1518
01:21:00,223 --> 01:21:04,592
even though Stephen had
  produced the demo recording.

1519
01:21:07,496 --> 01:21:10,764
- They signed her
  as quickly

1520
01:21:10,766 --> 01:21:12,666
as you can sign an artist.

1521
01:21:12,668 --> 01:21:15,736
I know it was not, they didn't
 think about it too much.

1522
01:21:15,738 --> 01:21:17,972
It was like they got
     Mark into the studio,

1523
01:21:17,974 --> 01:21:20,140
and they did Everybody.

1524
01:21:20,142 --> 01:21:22,543
Actually, I was
     invited to the studio.

1525
01:21:22,545 --> 01:21:24,612
I believe it was
       Blank Tape Studio.

1526
01:21:24,614 --> 01:21:26,113
I never went.

1527
01:21:26,115 --> 01:21:29,483
I wish I did
 so I can say I was there!

1528
01:21:29,485 --> 01:21:31,085
But no, I never was there.

1529
01:21:31,087 --> 01:21:34,288
It was because he said,
    "I'm doin' Madonna.

1530
01:21:34,290 --> 01:21:36,857
"You know, that girl that
   keeps on bothering us?

1531
01:21:36,859 --> 01:21:38,559
"We're signing her."

1532
01:21:38,561 --> 01:21:42,229
So, like a fool
     throughout this story,

1533
01:21:42,231 --> 01:21:45,799
Freddy the fool for
     Madonna, I did not go,

1534
01:21:46,936 --> 01:21:49,503
because I did not
    believe in the project.

1535
01:21:49,505 --> 01:21:52,706
- In October of
 1982, Sire Records released

1536
01:21:52,708 --> 01:21:55,709
Madonna's very first
      single, Everybody.

1537
01:21:55,711 --> 01:21:57,444
- Sire Records, you
     gotta hand it to them.

1538
01:21:57,446 --> 01:21:58,846
They went after it.

1539
01:21:58,848 --> 01:22:00,481
- When Everybody
       came out on Sire,

1540
01:22:00,483 --> 01:22:03,417
Steve was really pissed
    off 'cause Mark Kamins

1541
01:22:03,419 --> 01:22:07,454
basically did the exact
    arrangement of the demo.

1542
01:22:08,391 --> 01:22:11,258
- I think Mark's production,

1543
01:22:11,260 --> 01:22:15,162
and I know what Stephen's
  work is, and it's very good.

1544
01:22:15,164 --> 01:22:16,864
Stephen is a great writer,

1545
01:22:18,834 --> 01:22:23,637
but Mark's deejaying
      capabilities and
      deejaying wizardry,

1546
01:22:26,042 --> 01:22:28,509
it was about creating chaos,

1547
01:22:28,511 --> 01:22:30,544
and creating a whole vibe,

1548
01:22:30,546 --> 01:22:32,313
and that's what he
       did with Madonna.

1549
01:22:32,315 --> 01:22:35,816
It was like a funky
     house New York sound.

1550
01:22:37,253 --> 01:22:39,053
Not taking anything
      away from Stephen.

1551
01:22:39,055 --> 01:22:40,888
He's a great producer,
     great writer,

1552
01:22:40,890 --> 01:22:42,456
but I don't think Stephen
   could have done that

1553
01:22:42,458 --> 01:22:45,259
for that first record, and
   they might have been lost

1554
01:22:45,261 --> 01:22:47,861
if they didn't go
       that direction.

1555
01:22:47,863 --> 01:22:49,396
Who knows?

1556
01:22:49,398 --> 01:22:50,864
- By November,
 the song entered

1557
01:22:50,866 --> 01:22:53,701
Billboard's Top 100
      on the dance charts,

1558
01:22:53,703 --> 01:22:56,136
but Madonna knew that she
   still needed to push hard

1559
01:22:56,138 --> 01:22:59,673
to get the song played anywhere
and everywhere possible.

1560
01:22:59,675 --> 01:23:01,008
- Oh, no, here she comes.

1561
01:23:01,010 --> 01:23:03,510
Lock the door!

1562
01:23:03,512 --> 01:23:06,981
So, my friend Michael
     would lock the door,

1563
01:23:06,983 --> 01:23:08,916
'cause I just did not
     wanna be bothered.

1564
01:23:08,918 --> 01:23:11,485
I didn't want her comin'
    up to the deejay booth

1565
01:23:11,487 --> 01:23:14,655
and standing there
       until I played it,

1566
01:23:14,657 --> 01:23:16,657
because that's
       what she would do.

1567
01:23:16,659 --> 01:23:20,194
She would stand there,
     give me the cassette,

1568
01:23:20,196 --> 01:23:21,628
and if she gave me the cassette,

1569
01:23:21,630 --> 01:23:23,797
she wouldn't let me hold it.

1570
01:23:23,799 --> 01:23:28,202
Ya know, having somebody
    standing there is just,

1571
01:23:28,204 --> 01:23:29,703
it gets to you.

1572
01:23:29,705 --> 01:23:32,806
You just want, you're like,
  what do you want, already?

1573
01:23:32,808 --> 01:23:35,242
So, you're either gonna play
  it, or you're gonna tell her

1574
01:23:35,244 --> 01:23:37,311
I'm not gonna play it,
     and I would tell her

1575
01:23:37,313 --> 01:23:38,846
I'm not gonna play it.

1576
01:23:38,848 --> 01:23:41,615
- Mark Kamins
 was on Madonna's side,

1577
01:23:41,617 --> 01:23:45,886
and was also very invested in
 having this record succeed.

1578
01:23:45,888 --> 01:23:48,889
- Because she knew Mark was in
 her corner at that time, too.

1579
01:23:48,891 --> 01:23:53,093
There was the pre-Mark,
    and then the after Mark.

1580
01:23:53,095 --> 01:23:55,629
So, the pre-Mark, I
      didn't really care.

1581
01:23:55,631 --> 01:23:58,932
But then after Mark,
      I was like, oh no,

1582
01:23:58,934 --> 01:24:03,037
I gotta start playin'
  this now.

1583
01:24:03,039 --> 01:24:05,005
That kind of music never got me,

1584
01:24:05,007 --> 01:24:08,175
that single solo
      girl pop star thing.

1585
01:24:10,212 --> 01:24:13,247
So, shows you what I know.

1586
01:24:13,249 --> 01:24:15,516
- With the help
 of deejays, record promoters,

1587
01:24:15,518 --> 01:24:17,384
and perhaps the
       biggest promoter,

1588
01:24:17,386 --> 01:24:19,753
Madonna herself, the
      song quickly climbed

1589
01:24:19,755 --> 01:24:23,424
as high as number three
    on the dance charts.

1590
01:24:23,426 --> 01:24:25,259
- It was a 24 hour shift.

1591
01:24:25,261 --> 01:24:28,328
I was just really, like
    eight cups of coffee,

1592
01:24:28,330 --> 01:24:31,231
feeling like chills
      and runny, and

1593
01:24:32,401 --> 01:24:34,501
¶ Everybody ¶

1594
01:24:34,503 --> 01:24:36,537
¶ Uh, uh, eh, eh, eh ¶

1595
01:24:36,539 --> 01:24:37,671
¶ Everybody ¶

1596
01:24:37,673 --> 01:24:39,373
came on the radio,

1597
01:24:41,310 --> 01:24:44,144
although it was kinda
     fun, there's Madonna,

1598
01:24:44,146 --> 01:24:46,413
it made me think,
     man, oh what happened?

1599
01:24:46,415 --> 01:24:47,314
Ooh.

1600
01:24:48,250 --> 01:24:50,350
It was depressing.

1601
01:24:50,352 --> 01:24:53,187
- And now, No Entiendes
    is proud to present

1602
01:24:53,189 --> 01:24:57,858
the world premiere of Sire
   Recording artist Madonna.

1603
01:24:59,695 --> 01:25:02,229
Now get up and do your thing!

1604
01:25:04,967 --> 01:25:07,034
- Madonna
  put together a track
  act performance,

1605
01:25:07,036 --> 01:25:09,002
and took it on the
       road starting out

1606
01:25:09,004 --> 01:25:11,171
at Danceteria.
         - Go on, girl.

1607
01:25:13,309 --> 01:25:15,342
- Woo!

1608
01:25:18,747 --> 01:25:22,316
¶ Everybody come
      on, dance and sing ¶

1609
01:25:22,318 --> 01:25:26,153
¶ Everybody get up
      and do your thing ¶

1610
01:25:26,155 --> 01:25:30,157
¶ Everybody come
      on, dance and sing ¶

1611
01:25:30,159 --> 01:25:34,027
¶ Everybody get up
      and do your thing ¶

1612
01:25:34,029 --> 01:25:36,530
- It wasn't a huge hit,
  Everybody, but it was a hit

1613
01:25:36,532 --> 01:25:41,101
in urban areas, in all the
  major cities in The States.

1614
01:25:42,471 --> 01:25:46,240
It was a good dance hit,
    it wasn't a pop hit.

1615
01:25:49,512 --> 01:25:52,212
- It was enough
 of a hit that Sire Records

1616
01:25:52,214 --> 01:25:54,181
gave Madonna another
      single release,

1617
01:25:54,183 --> 01:25:57,317
and then finally a
       full first album.

1618
01:25:57,319 --> 01:26:00,087
- I went to see her, and
   she had a track act going.

1619
01:26:00,089 --> 01:26:03,157
She had herself and
     another female dancer

1620
01:26:03,159 --> 01:26:07,327
and two male dancers, and
   I was really impressed.

1621
01:26:08,264 --> 01:26:10,664
She'd really gotten it together.

1622
01:26:10,666 --> 01:26:14,034
She saw me in the audience,
  and she smiled at me,

1623
01:26:14,036 --> 01:26:16,403
kind of like cranked
      it up a little bit

1624
01:26:16,405 --> 01:26:18,906
seeing that I was there.

1625
01:26:18,908 --> 01:26:22,543
And for some reason,
     I didn't go backstage.

1626
01:26:24,313 --> 01:26:27,114
At that point, I think I
   was a little intimidated.

1627
01:26:27,116 --> 01:26:31,218
To this day, I regret
     that I didn't go back

1628
01:26:31,220 --> 01:26:34,121
and stay and talk
       to her after that

1629
01:26:34,123 --> 01:26:37,457
'cause that was the
    last time I was anywhere

1630
01:26:37,459 --> 01:26:41,295
within 10 feet of her, with
  100 feet of her, ya know?

1631
01:26:41,297 --> 01:26:42,930
- The release
 of Madonna's first album

1632
01:26:42,932 --> 01:26:45,465
coincided with MTV
       Music Television

1633
01:26:45,467 --> 01:26:48,535
taking over TV sets
      all over the world.

1634
01:26:48,537 --> 01:26:52,406
Music videos like Burning Up,
 Lucky Star, and Borderline

1635
01:26:52,408 --> 01:26:55,409
were making Madonna
      a household name.

1636
01:26:55,411 --> 01:26:56,944
- Ooh, it happened so fast.

1637
01:26:56,946 --> 01:26:59,246
After Everybody and
   Physical Attraction stuff,

1638
01:26:59,248 --> 01:27:01,415
those were like club hits.

1639
01:27:01,417 --> 01:27:05,319
Borderline was an MTV
    video in heavy rotation,

1640
01:27:07,423 --> 01:27:11,592
and it was on all over
     the radio, ya know,

1641
01:27:11,594 --> 01:27:14,428
that whole Reggie Lucas
    produced first album,

1642
01:27:14,430 --> 01:27:17,564
that was the eponymous album
  just called Madonna, right?

1643
01:27:17,566 --> 01:27:19,433
And she had her
     whole image together,

1644
01:27:19,435 --> 01:27:24,504
the East Village Bohemian
thing, but she made it her own.

1645
01:27:25,574 --> 01:27:28,775
The bow and the hair
    and the rubber bracelets

1646
01:27:28,777 --> 01:27:32,045
and the BOY TOY buckle
     and the whole thing.

1647
01:27:32,047 --> 01:27:34,248
She'd really branded herself.

1648
01:27:34,250 --> 01:27:37,551
That's how smart
        she is, ya know?

1649
01:27:37,553 --> 01:27:42,422
It was a different route,
   and it was a fresher route

1650
01:27:42,424 --> 01:27:45,225
that she took, and so
     I think that aided,

1651
01:27:45,227 --> 01:27:49,129
and then the perfect
   storm of MTV and Madonna.

1652
01:27:50,432 --> 01:27:53,867
The camera loves her,
     as opposed to me.

1653
01:27:53,869 --> 01:27:57,471
The camera hates
       me, loves Madonna.

1654
01:27:57,473 --> 01:27:59,239
And the camera loved her.

1655
01:27:59,241 --> 01:28:01,575
I mean, she looked good
   in those early MTV videos.

1656
01:28:01,577 --> 01:28:03,110
So, like, bam!

1657
01:28:03,112 --> 01:28:05,245
Rocket to stardom there.

1658
01:28:05,247 --> 01:28:07,080
She was a video star.

1659
01:28:08,550 --> 01:28:12,686
¶ Video killed the
 radio star ¶

1660
01:28:12,688 --> 01:28:15,856
- For the very
 first MTV Video Awards Show,

1661
01:28:15,858 --> 01:28:18,325
rather than performing
    one of her current hits,

1662
01:28:18,327 --> 01:28:20,494
Madonna shocked viewers
    with an introduction

1663
01:28:20,496 --> 01:28:24,164
to the title track from her yet
to be released second album,

1664
01:28:24,166 --> 01:28:25,799
Like A Virgin.

1665
01:28:31,940 --> 01:28:36,076
In November of 1984, Like
   A Virgin was released,

1666
01:28:36,078 --> 01:28:39,746
giving Madonna her
    first number one single.

1667
01:28:40,949 --> 01:28:45,319
- Usually, second albums
    are cursed, ya know?

1668
01:28:45,321 --> 01:28:47,888
It's like that second
     album, oh my God.

1669
01:28:47,890 --> 01:28:50,057
The second year on a
   football player's career.

1670
01:28:50,059 --> 01:28:51,692
It is always weird,
      the second year,

1671
01:28:51,694 --> 01:28:54,261
but her second album was mega.

1672
01:28:57,433 --> 01:29:01,201
I mean, I had to play it at
 the Palladium, Like A Virgin,

1673
01:29:01,203 --> 01:29:04,471
I had to play it
      three times a night.

1674
01:29:04,473 --> 01:29:06,707
"Can you play Madonna?"

1675
01:29:06,709 --> 01:29:08,175
- Madonna
  and Stephen Bray

1676
01:29:08,177 --> 01:29:10,644
remained on good terms,
    and she brought him

1677
01:29:10,646 --> 01:29:13,347
into the songwriting mix
  of the Like A Virgin album,

1678
01:29:13,349 --> 01:29:17,117
which went on to sell
    over 20 million copies.

1679
01:29:17,119 --> 01:29:20,354
- Steve saw that, ya know,
 I'm gonna stay with this path.

1680
01:29:20,356 --> 01:29:24,324
Even though he was pissed
   off that Mark Kamins

1681
01:29:24,326 --> 01:29:27,627
stole his arrangement,
     he didn't let it

1682
01:29:29,131 --> 01:29:31,064
blow up their relationship.

1683
01:29:31,066 --> 01:29:33,800
So, that was smart
  of him.

1684
01:29:35,304 --> 01:29:36,870
- In April 1985,

1685
01:29:36,872 --> 01:29:39,606
Madonna began her
       first major tour,

1686
01:29:39,608 --> 01:29:42,409
performing songs from
     her first two albums.

1687
01:29:42,411 --> 01:29:44,144
At this point, she
      was selling records

1688
01:29:44,146 --> 01:29:47,514
at a rate of over
       75,000 per day,

1689
01:29:47,516 --> 01:29:49,349
and the tour was
     selling out as quickly

1690
01:29:49,351 --> 01:29:51,151
as tickets went on sale.

1691
01:29:53,088 --> 01:29:54,554
- I knew she was gonna make it,

1692
01:29:54,556 --> 01:29:57,491
but I didn't know she was gonna
make it that big that fast.

1693
01:29:57,493 --> 01:30:00,761
So, it did blow my mind,
   and then as time went on,

1694
01:30:00,763 --> 01:30:02,963
she kept on staying
     at that level of fame,

1695
01:30:02,965 --> 01:30:05,365
or rising to a
     higher level of fame.

1696
01:30:05,367 --> 01:30:08,769
¶ Marilyn to Madonna ¶

1697
01:30:08,771 --> 01:30:11,605
It's like you're going,
   I played with that chick.

1698
01:30:11,607 --> 01:30:12,572
It's weird.

1699
01:30:13,675 --> 01:30:15,809
It's pretty mind blowing.

1700
01:30:16,879 --> 01:30:18,345
- She
  landed a small role

1701
01:30:18,347 --> 01:30:20,781
in the film Vision Quest,
   and then a major role

1702
01:30:20,783 --> 01:30:23,450
in the film Desperately
    Seeking Susan.

1703
01:30:23,452 --> 01:30:24,885
She was now well on her way

1704
01:30:24,887 --> 01:30:27,788
to becoming a
      worldwide superstar.

1705
01:30:29,124 --> 01:30:31,425
- She wanted it that bad,
   she's that ambitious.

1706
01:30:31,427 --> 01:30:34,461
She was not gonna be stopped.

1707
01:30:34,463 --> 01:30:36,329
- All the
 while, Dan and Ed Gilroy

1708
01:30:36,331 --> 01:30:37,798
had continued working on songs

1709
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:40,434
and playing out
       as a two-man act.

1710
01:30:40,436 --> 01:30:42,636
- Dan and Ed Gilroy
      gave me a tape

1711
01:30:42,638 --> 01:30:45,906
of what they had been doing
  in the last year or so,

1712
01:30:45,908 --> 01:30:49,042
I guess it was, and
      I was playing it

1713
01:30:49,044 --> 01:30:51,478
'cause I was gonna rejoin them,

1714
01:30:51,480 --> 01:30:53,780
I was gonna go back to playing
 bass for them and stuff.

1715
01:30:53,782 --> 01:30:55,315
Steve heard it.

1716
01:30:55,317 --> 01:30:56,783
¶ That took a memory ¶

1717
01:30:56,785 --> 01:30:58,118
- He liked it, ya know?

1718
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:00,287
¶ I can't wait, I
       don't wanna know ¶

1719
01:31:00,289 --> 01:31:04,591
- Gary happened to play
  some of our tape for Steve,

1720
01:31:04,593 --> 01:31:06,660
and Steve said, "Oh
      wow, what's that?"

1721
01:31:06,662 --> 01:31:10,230
- So, after Breakfast Club
   with Madonna broke up,

1722
01:31:10,232 --> 01:31:14,367
and then Emmy broke up,
   we were able to get Steve

1723
01:31:14,369 --> 01:31:17,537
to rehearse with us as he
  had been working with Gary,

1724
01:31:17,539 --> 01:31:20,173
and we put together
    the New Breakfast Club.

1725
01:31:25,180 --> 01:31:28,215
- And Steve and Gary came
  over here to the synagogue,

1726
01:31:28,217 --> 01:31:30,150
and we started doing the songs

1727
01:31:30,152 --> 01:31:32,352
that Dan and I had
       been workin' on.

1728
01:31:32,354 --> 01:31:34,721
- Getting Steve in the
     band was a big deal

1729
01:31:34,723 --> 01:31:38,658
because it took us to a really
 different level musically.

1730
01:31:38,660 --> 01:31:42,796
- We kinda became a dance
   synthesizer driven band

1731
01:31:45,367 --> 01:31:50,437
with drum machines, and it was
 sort of a Steve Bray thing.

1732
01:31:51,540 --> 01:31:52,739
- Stephen was really
      good in rehearsal

1733
01:31:52,741 --> 01:31:54,574
because it was
       like all business.

1734
01:31:54,576 --> 01:31:56,009
Let's do it, let's do it again,

1735
01:31:56,011 --> 01:31:58,144
let's do it over again,
    let's do it over again.

1736
01:31:58,146 --> 01:31:59,546
Instead of moving
       to the next song,

1737
01:31:59,548 --> 01:32:01,147
let's get this one right.

1738
01:32:01,149 --> 01:32:03,450
- Because of
 Stephen having co-written

1739
01:32:03,452 --> 01:32:05,652
several songs on the
      Like A Virgin album,

1740
01:32:05,654 --> 01:32:07,521
the band was able to
      get their demo tapes

1741
01:32:07,523 --> 01:32:10,891
into the hands of
    major record companies.

1742
01:32:10,893 --> 01:32:13,360
- But it was a lot of
    fun and it was exciting

1743
01:32:13,362 --> 01:32:16,563
being courted by
      A&R people and such.

1744
01:32:16,565 --> 01:32:18,798
- The phone rang, it was
    Irving Azoff from MCA,

1745
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:21,635
and saying I wanna
       sign you guys.

1746
01:32:22,771 --> 01:32:24,971
That was the first I heard.

1747
01:32:24,973 --> 01:32:26,706
What a day that was.

1748
01:32:28,110 --> 01:32:30,977
- And then Breakfast Club
   got signed to MCA Records.

1749
01:32:30,979 --> 01:32:32,812
- In
  1987, Breakfast Club

1750
01:32:32,814 --> 01:32:35,749
released their studio album.

1751
01:32:35,751 --> 01:32:38,685
- The big record on our
   thing was Right on Track,

1752
01:32:38,687 --> 01:32:41,288
which was a big summer hit.

1753
01:32:41,290 --> 01:32:45,792
It went to number like seven
  on the Billboard Hot 100.

1754
01:32:45,794 --> 01:32:47,694
You couldn't go anywhere
without hearing it on the radio

1755
01:32:47,696 --> 01:32:50,030
or at the beach or
      something like that.

1756
01:32:50,032 --> 01:32:53,934
¶ Gonna make a move
     that knocks you over ¶

1757
01:32:53,936 --> 01:32:57,704
¶ Watch this turn, this
  one's gonna put you away. ¶

1758
01:32:57,706 --> 01:33:02,509
¶ Yeah, but I'm doin' my
   very best dancin', yeah ¶

1759
01:33:02,511 --> 01:33:05,645
¶ Every time you're
    lookin' the other way ¶

1760
01:33:05,647 --> 01:33:09,716
¶ I could move out to
     the left for awhile ¶

1761
01:33:09,718 --> 01:33:13,753
- And we got nominated for
  a Grammy as Best New Artist.

1762
01:33:13,755 --> 01:33:15,255
Madonna was very supportive.

1763
01:33:15,257 --> 01:33:18,091
She sent telegrams
      over here, ya know,

1764
01:33:18,093 --> 01:33:22,162
Great F, asterisk, asterisk,
  asterisk, asterisk,

1765
01:33:24,032 --> 01:33:25,865
I-N-G album.

1766
01:33:25,867 --> 01:33:28,802
- Did a lot of
       nice videos on MTV

1767
01:33:28,804 --> 01:33:31,071
back when they used
      to play videos,

1768
01:33:31,073 --> 01:33:34,674
and we used to do MTV
 veejaying, which was fun, too.

1769
01:33:38,180 --> 01:33:39,346
Hi, we're Dan and Ed.

1770
01:33:39,348 --> 01:33:40,547
We're from Breakfast Club.

1771
01:33:40,549 --> 01:33:41,748
Steve and Gary
       aren't here today.

1772
01:33:41,750 --> 01:33:43,216
- We miss 'em, to.
       - We love 'em.

1773
01:33:43,218 --> 01:33:45,919
- So, we had a pretty good
   relationship with MTV,

1774
01:33:45,921 --> 01:33:49,022
and we shot like six videos.

1775
01:33:49,024 --> 01:33:52,359
One of them was Kiss and
  Tell, which we shot in L.A.

1776
01:33:53,328 --> 01:33:56,296
¶ La la la la la, oh oh ¶

1777
01:33:56,298 --> 01:33:59,799
¶ I'll kiss and tell ¶

1778
01:33:59,801 --> 01:34:03,203
¶ And everybody's gonna know ¶

1779
01:34:03,205 --> 01:34:05,772
¶ La la la la ¶

1780
01:34:06,875 --> 01:34:09,075
- Silverlake, I think
     is where we shot it,

1781
01:34:09,077 --> 01:34:10,877
and Madonna stopped by.

1782
01:34:10,879 --> 01:34:12,312
- She did show up
       for Kiss and Tell.

1783
01:34:12,314 --> 01:34:15,582
It was our second video shoot.

1784
01:34:15,584 --> 01:34:17,283
- We weren't all
        that well known,

1785
01:34:17,285 --> 01:34:21,755
and Madonna coming to the
  shoot made an amazing stir.

1786
01:34:22,824 --> 01:34:25,225
- Madonna's here, you
     know, Madonna's...

1787
01:34:25,227 --> 01:34:27,627
She was pretty famous by then.

1788
01:34:27,629 --> 01:34:30,563
- The whole, the
      crew, and everybody,

1789
01:34:30,565 --> 01:34:32,599
the craft services people,

1790
01:34:32,601 --> 01:34:35,902
because Madonna
  was there.

1791
01:34:35,904 --> 01:34:38,471
She come up to me, and gave
  me a big kiss on the mouth,

1792
01:34:38,473 --> 01:34:41,741
and everybody, suddenly
    my cache went way up.

1793
01:34:41,743 --> 01:34:43,209
It was like can I get you?

1794
01:34:43,211 --> 01:34:44,844
Can I get you?

1795
01:34:44,846 --> 01:34:48,815
Suddenly I was like,
    'cause Madonna, Madonna.

1796
01:34:48,817 --> 01:34:51,618
And people were, can
    you introduce me to her?

1797
01:34:53,088 --> 01:34:55,522
- I was a little starstruck
 about it.

1798
01:34:55,524 --> 01:34:57,323
She had made it so big.

1799
01:34:57,325 --> 01:34:58,992
I was a little like tongue tied.

1800
01:34:58,994 --> 01:35:01,027
She was probably there
   more to see Steve and Dan,

1801
01:35:01,029 --> 01:35:02,929
I figured, or
      something like that.

1802
01:35:02,931 --> 01:35:04,364
- I hadn't seen her in awhile,

1803
01:35:04,366 --> 01:35:06,132
and she was huge at that point.

1804
01:35:06,134 --> 01:35:10,036
I hadn't seen her
    since she was not huge,

1805
01:35:10,038 --> 01:35:12,372
and the difference
      was pretty amazing,

1806
01:35:12,374 --> 01:35:14,574
the way people responded.

1807
01:35:14,576 --> 01:35:19,245
- Remember how all I wanted
  was for people to notice me?

1808
01:35:25,787 --> 01:35:29,856
Now, I find myself just
    hiding most of the time.

1809
01:35:31,093 --> 01:35:33,727
- And it might have
      been at a point

1810
01:35:33,729 --> 01:35:36,563
where she was just
       bein' hounded,

1811
01:35:36,565 --> 01:35:39,632
paparazzi and all
       of that, but yeah.

1812
01:35:41,303 --> 01:35:44,204
"Now, I spend all
       my time hiding."

1813
01:36:14,970 --> 01:36:17,771
¶ The ants play
     Bingo in your snout ¶

1814
01:36:17,773 --> 01:36:20,240
¶ Your eyes cave in,
      your teeth decay ¶

1815
01:36:20,242 --> 01:36:23,042
¶ Don't cry ¶

1816
01:36:23,044 --> 01:36:24,310
- Yeah, let's just,
      ¶ Don't ¶

1817
01:36:24,312 --> 01:36:26,279
- It's not serious at all.
   ¶ Cry ¶

1818
01:36:26,281 --> 01:36:27,347
Don't cry, Dan.
        - No.

1819
01:36:27,349 --> 01:36:28,915
- Don't cry.

1820
01:36:28,917 --> 01:36:30,150
- You said somethin'.

1821
01:36:30,152 --> 01:36:32,218
- Do you cry when I cry?

1822
01:36:34,523 --> 01:36:36,422
Do you taste your tears?

1823
01:36:41,630 --> 01:36:43,396
- In 2008
  Madonna was inducted

1824
01:36:43,398 --> 01:36:46,833
into the Rock and
       Roll Hall of Fame.

1825
01:36:46,835 --> 01:36:51,404
- I got a phone call from
  my niece livin' out in L.A.,

1826
01:36:51,406 --> 01:36:53,239
said, "Hey, did you hear?

1827
01:36:53,241 --> 01:36:55,175
"Madonna was inducted
     into the Hall of Fame.

1828
01:36:55,177 --> 01:36:58,144
"She talked about Uncle
    Eddie and Uncle Danny."

1829
01:36:58,146 --> 01:37:00,413
- It was a surprise
     that she mentioned me,

1830
01:37:00,415 --> 01:37:02,282
like right away,
      like that was great.

1831
01:37:02,284 --> 01:37:06,719
It was wonderful, in fact,
   and it changed my whole,

1832
01:37:06,721 --> 01:37:10,857
in town, the musicians in town
 were like, did you see that?

1833
01:37:10,859 --> 01:37:14,093
Suddenly, again, it's
   like we were with Madonna.

1834
01:37:14,095 --> 01:37:16,930
It's like she threw
      the spotlight.

1835
01:37:18,600 --> 01:37:21,201
- I have always been fortunate
 to have people around me

1836
01:37:21,203 --> 01:37:23,002
who believed in me.

1837
01:37:23,004 --> 01:37:27,340
Starting with my ballet
  teacher, Christopher Flynn,

1838
01:37:28,910 --> 01:37:31,678
and then there was Dan Gilroy.

1839
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:33,613
He lived in an abandoned
    synagogue in Queens

1840
01:37:33,615 --> 01:37:35,248
with his brother, Ed.

1841
01:37:35,250 --> 01:37:37,717
They played in a band together.

1842
01:37:37,719 --> 01:37:40,253
I was sick of being
     an out of work dancer,

1843
01:37:40,255 --> 01:37:43,089
so he taught me
      how to play guitar.

1844
01:37:43,091 --> 01:37:46,025
I wrote my first song
     in that synagogue.

1845
01:37:46,027 --> 01:37:49,929
It was called, ironically,
   Tell the Truth.

1846
01:37:49,931 --> 01:37:51,831
- One, two, three, four.

1847
01:37:51,833 --> 01:37:55,602
¶ This is what I'm
      going to tell you ¶

1848
01:37:55,604 --> 01:37:59,606
¶ This is what
       I'm going to say ¶

1849
01:37:59,608 --> 01:38:04,677
¶ It's not very
     clear, but it's okay ¶

1850
01:38:07,449 --> 01:38:11,351
¶ Tell the truth ¶

1851
01:38:11,353 --> 01:38:15,021
¶ Tell the truth ¶

1852
01:38:15,023 --> 01:38:18,057
¶ Tell the truth to me ¶

1853
01:38:18,059 --> 01:38:21,261
- I remember that
     moment so, so vividly.

1854
01:38:21,263 --> 01:38:23,730
I remember the hair standing
  up on the back of my arms,

1855
01:38:23,732 --> 01:38:27,967
and I thought to myself,
   who just wrote that song?

1856
01:38:29,304 --> 01:38:32,305
- Ya know, that thing about
  when you hear something,

1857
01:38:32,307 --> 01:38:36,542
and you go wow, is
    this, and she said this,

1858
01:38:36,544 --> 01:38:39,512
when she wrote her first
    song, Tell the Truth,

1859
01:38:39,514 --> 01:38:42,181
right here on this
     Carlo Robelli guitar,

1860
01:38:42,183 --> 01:38:45,451
and right here in
      this room, she said,

1861
01:38:45,453 --> 01:38:47,153
"Oh, what is that?

1862
01:38:47,155 --> 01:38:48,788
"Is it me?"

1863
01:38:48,790 --> 01:38:52,625
- I felt like I had been
    possessed by some magic.

1864
01:38:58,300 --> 01:39:01,901
¶ I don't have far to go now ¶

1865
01:39:01,903 --> 01:39:06,539
¶ But it certainly seems so ¶

1866
01:39:06,541 --> 01:39:10,476
¶ But you are the end
     of the line, dear ¶

1867
01:39:10,478 --> 01:39:13,513
¶ I really do wanna go ¶

1868
01:39:13,515 --> 01:39:16,149
Madonna probably felt
     like her time here

1869
01:39:16,151 --> 01:39:19,686
was really a good time for
   her, ya know what I mean?

1870
01:39:19,688 --> 01:39:22,322
She came in and
       found that footing

1871
01:39:22,324 --> 01:39:23,957
that maybe she was looking for.

1872
01:39:23,959 --> 01:39:25,491
Am I gonna be a dancer or this?

1873
01:39:25,493 --> 01:39:30,430
She saw songwriters and all
  this music and instruments,

1874
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:34,100
and so she was able to figure
 out I wanna be a songwriter.

1875
01:39:34,102 --> 01:39:36,703
I wanna put my stuff out there.

1876
01:39:36,705 --> 01:39:40,940
I wanna play music, and
   so, ya know, it had to be.

1877
01:39:42,177 --> 01:39:44,777
- There are many
   talented beautiful girls,

1878
01:39:44,779 --> 01:39:48,448
but she had the drive
     to push it all the way

1879
01:39:48,450 --> 01:39:51,784
to make every bit of her
    talent work and pay off.

1880
01:39:51,786 --> 01:39:54,120
- And she's smart, and
     she's a businesswoman,

1881
01:39:54,122 --> 01:39:58,958
and so she wanted it all,
   and she really did it.

1882
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:01,027
- I mean, I knew that
     she was gonna make it

1883
01:40:01,029 --> 01:40:03,162
with that ambition.

1884
01:40:03,164 --> 01:40:05,031
I didn't think she'd be
    on the cover of Time,

1885
01:40:05,033 --> 01:40:10,103
necessarily, two years
 later, but she was.

1886
01:40:11,206 --> 01:40:14,841
- She's the one who made
    it happen for herself.

1887
01:40:14,843 --> 01:40:18,311
You can be as male or
    female as you wanna be,

1888
01:40:18,313 --> 01:40:19,879
but you're gonna
      be your own person,

1889
01:40:19,881 --> 01:40:22,482
and I think that's what
    there is about Madonna

1890
01:40:22,484 --> 01:40:25,818
to this day that
     makes her so powerful.

1891
01:40:27,355 --> 01:40:32,325
- She's not some pop star that
 was molded by Madison Avenue

1892
01:40:33,928 --> 01:40:38,598
or the entertainment
   industry to become famous.

1893
01:40:38,600 --> 01:40:42,268
She's someone that
       was born that way,

1894
01:40:42,270 --> 01:40:45,905
and that essence is
    there until she's gone,

1895
01:40:48,576 --> 01:40:51,778
and maybe, who knows, beyond.

1896
01:40:51,780 --> 01:40:53,880
- One, two, ah.

1897
01:41:00,688 --> 01:41:04,891
¶ I see you and me on a boat ¶

1898
01:41:04,893 --> 01:41:07,994
¶ Or a raft or something
    that will float ¶

1899
01:41:07,996 --> 01:41:13,032
¶ And we're drifting ¶

1900
01:41:14,235 --> 01:41:18,004
¶ Little breeze,
       the gentle swell ¶

1901
01:41:18,006 --> 01:41:23,076
¶ Otherwise how can we
    tell if we're drifting ¶

1902
01:41:26,548 --> 01:41:30,249
¶ And if we don't know ¶

1903
01:41:30,251 --> 01:41:35,321
¶ Where we're going to,
    why should we care ¶

1904
01:41:36,424 --> 01:41:40,626
¶ We'll find out
      when we get there ¶

1905
01:41:43,832 --> 01:41:46,165
¶ I've got you ¶

1906
01:41:46,167 --> 01:41:51,237
¶ Oh I know no
      matter where we go ¶

1907
01:41:51,940 --> 01:41:56,442
¶ Let's keep drifting ¶

1908
01:41:57,145 --> 01:41:59,779
¶ And if they say ¶

1909
01:41:59,781 --> 01:42:04,851
¶ You're gonna drift your
  life away, why do we care ¶

1910
01:42:05,620 --> 01:42:08,054
¶ We'll just say hey ¶

1911
01:42:08,056 --> 01:42:13,092
¶ I will be there ¶

1912
01:42:14,262 --> 01:42:17,663
¶ And if we drift too
     close to the shore ¶

1913
01:42:17,665 --> 01:42:19,799
¶ We could go there ¶

1914
01:42:19,801 --> 01:42:21,767
¶ What for ¶

1915
01:42:21,769 --> 01:42:25,671
¶ Let's keep drifting ¶

1916
01:42:25,673 --> 01:42:29,408
¶ Yeah, let's keep drifting ¶

1917
01:42:30,678 --> 01:42:32,645
- Come on, I think we're ready.

1918
01:42:32,647 --> 01:42:33,880
- Okay, bye.

1919
01:42:33,882 --> 01:42:36,382
- I'll give you
       an extension cord.

1920
01:42:40,121 --> 01:42:42,088
- If she
 walked in the room right now,

1921
01:42:42,090 --> 01:42:43,990
what would you say to her?

1922
01:42:43,992 --> 01:42:45,892
- If she walked in
      the room right now?

1923
01:42:45,894 --> 01:42:49,028
It would be quite fun, I'm sure.

1924
01:42:49,030 --> 01:42:52,198
I'm sure she'd go hey, hey,
  and I'd give her a hug,

1925
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:54,167
a long, long, long hug.

1926
01:42:55,303 --> 01:42:57,803
That's what I'd do,
      and it would be fun.

1927
01:42:57,805 --> 01:43:01,374
No doubt.

1928
01:43:01,376 --> 01:43:02,642
- That's a wrap!

1929
01:43:11,386 --> 01:43:13,486
- One,
  two, three, four.

1930
01:43:21,996 --> 01:43:25,064
¶ I don't have far to go now ¶

1931
01:43:25,066 --> 01:43:29,435
¶ But it certainly seems so ¶

1932
01:43:29,437 --> 01:43:33,539
¶ With you at the end
     of the line, dear ¶

1933
01:43:33,541 --> 01:43:36,409
¶ I really do wanna go ¶

1934
01:43:36,411 --> 01:43:41,480
¶ But this wind it keeps
    whippin' in on me ¶

1935
01:43:42,550 --> 01:43:44,116
¶ Yeah ¶

1936
01:43:44,118 --> 01:43:49,188
¶ The cold wind it keeps
    whippin' in on me ¶

1937
01:43:50,091 --> 01:43:53,292
¶ Oh, yeah ¶

1938
01:43:53,294 --> 01:43:56,796
¶ Sometimes my spirit's empty ¶

1939
01:43:56,798 --> 01:44:00,600
¶ And I need to fill it up ¶

1940
01:44:00,602 --> 01:44:04,670
¶ I know that there is plenty ¶

1941
01:44:04,672 --> 01:44:07,807
¶ But I never get enough ¶

1942
01:44:07,809 --> 01:44:12,712
¶ 'Cause this wind that
   keeps whippin' in on me ¶

1943
01:44:12,714 --> 01:44:15,147
¶ Ooh, ooh, ooh ¶

1944
01:44:15,149 --> 01:44:20,186
¶ The cold wind it keeps
    whippin' in on me ¶

1945
01:44:21,055 --> 01:44:22,922
¶ Oh yeah ¶

1946
01:44:22,924 --> 01:44:25,124
¶ Sometimes I try to attack it ¶

1947
01:44:25,126 --> 01:44:27,026
¶ Sometimes I try to attack it ¶

1948
01:44:27,028 --> 01:44:28,928
¶ Sometimes I try to attack it ¶

1949
01:44:28,930 --> 01:44:30,796
¶ It just blows me away ¶

1950
01:44:30,798 --> 01:44:33,032
¶ Sometimes I try
       to attract it ¶

1951
01:44:33,034 --> 01:44:34,734
¶ Sometimes I try
       to attract it ¶

1952
01:44:34,736 --> 01:44:36,802
¶ Sometimes I try
       to attract it ¶

1953
01:44:36,804 --> 01:44:40,706
¶ It just blows me down ¶

1954
01:44:40,708 --> 01:44:45,778
¶ 'Cause this wind it
   keeps whippin' in on me ¶

1955
01:44:46,547 --> 01:44:48,347
¶ Yeah ¶

1956
01:44:48,349 --> 01:44:53,419
¶ The cold wind it keeps
    whippin' in on me ¶

1957
01:44:54,255 --> 01:44:56,355
¶ Oh, yeah ¶

1958
01:44:56,357 --> 01:44:58,024
¶ It keeps whippin' ¶

1959
01:44:58,026 --> 01:44:59,992
¶ It keeps whippin' ¶

1960
01:44:59,994 --> 01:45:03,929
¶ It keeps whippin' in on me ¶

1961
01:45:03,931 --> 01:45:09,001
¶ It keeps whippin', whippin',
 whippin', whippin', whippin' ¶

1962
01:45:09,570 --> 01:45:11,771
¶ In on me ¶