**Ame vs Kerd**
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**Ame's first response**

* Starts off with fan calcs giving strength stats for his characters that make them slightly above ToC!Hulk

* While I don't mind calcs, I do feel Ame should've given proper sources to where his numbers came from. A link to a enginnering site about the density of granite or a link to where he got the prominences for the mountains

* Claims by and large that Naruto, Obito, and Sasuke are beneath the damage output of his team

* Uses durability calcs that place him above ToC!Hulk (except for Blanque). Once again I feel like he should've provided links to back his calc numbers but that's only a large issue if his oppoent brings it up

* Claims that Kerd's team are far less durable than his team's damage output and would therefore be one shot, while at the same time his team can roll with everything Naruto can dish out

* Claims that Brutaal's heat vision is fast enough to tag Kerd's team and its heat (being able to vaporize steel) is more than double of the lava that threatened to kill Naruto/Sasuke. Then he says that Obito has zero feats to indicate that he could even survive it

* States that Wraith's heat vision is light speed and burns at 2760 degrees C, once again more than double of Naruto/Sasuke's heat resistence

* Claims that Wraith's sonic scream attack would down Kerd's team

* Claims that Blanque can read and mind control Kerd's team along with the ability to take them down with ranged TK

* Claims that Blanque's TK counters Obito's Truth-Seeking Balls (henceforth refered to as TSBs), that 2/3rds of his team can tank the 10-Tail's Tailed Beast Bomb (henceforth refered to as TBBs) along with it being easily sliced apart by heat vision, that Brutaal's heat vision and Wraith's air cooking would counter Naruto's clones, that Naruto's summons are one shot, that Naruto cannot talk his team down, that Sasuke's sharingan would be useless as his team either doesn't use martial arts or barely moves, that any Genjutsu can be countered by Blanque, that his team can withstand Sasuke's fire jutsus, that Wraith can counter any lightning based abilites, and that Sasuke's Amaterasu has no feats backing its databook claim of Sun tempertures

**Kerd's first response**

* Claims that the art and narriation do not back Brutaal's striking strength calc

* Claims that Wraith's calcs are inheritenly flawed due to the art not matching the claimed sized and them breaking due to a chain collaspe rather than a single strike

* Claims that Blanque did not move the entire mountain and had gravity assist in the feat

* States the point that the blast used for Brutaal's feat was visibly strange. Not only taking time to expand there's nothing suggesting it instantly released all of its energy

* Claims that Naruto's lack of heat resistence was due to a weaker form and that his stronger modes can withstand attacks that vaporize rocks along with how chakra-induced lava is different from normal lava

* Asks for clarifcation regarding Superman's "vaporizing steel" statement

* Kerd makes a large mistake in misreading what Ame has wrote. Misinterpreting his claim that Blanque can counter TSBs with TK and being able to withstand a direct hit by a TSB

* Claims that Brutaal's heat vision does not have the power to replicate what Naruto's lava rasenshuriken did to the God Tree

* Claims that the clones provide a good distraction and source of damage even if they are weak to damage

* Claims that Naruto is superior to Wood Dragons which could point blank mountain busting explosions and slashes that lifted multiple mountains

* Claims that Naruto can use a large rasengan that is superior to another rasengan which can "Easily carve away a mountain"

* Claims that the TBBs are to fast to dodge and hit to hard for Ame's team to handle

* Claims that Obito's arms can overpower a barrier that could withstand a attack that vaporizes multiple mountains, his TSBs can one shot any of Ame's fighters, or summon the God Tree to use a multi-mountain TBB

* Claims that Sasuke can one shot any of Ame's team with a chidori since it cut Madara in half, who previously took the lava rasenshuriken without being sliced in half

* Claims that Obito is durable enough to take multiple hits from Ame's team, that Sasuke and Obito can dodge their attacks with sharingan, and that Naruto is faster than all of them with his speed boosts

* Claims that Naruto and Obito are resistent to mind control due to having a Tailed Beast which are hostile to mental intrusions and that Sasuke is resistent due to being able to break out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi. -While not mentioned here, I do feel like it was a bad move on kerd's part to not provide evidence on why resisting the Tsukuyomi is notable

* States that his entire team (except Sasuke if he isn't in a Susano'o) is able to deal with heat vision due to being able to withstand TBBs, which can instantly vaporize rocks and water

* States that Naruto is capable of a notable speed increase in his KCM form

**Ame's second response**

* Claims that Obito and Naruto are OoT

* Defends his calc of the Atom (and therefore Brutaal's striking strength). He gives a scan that Atom's cavern can hold a few million people and week of supplies for them. Along with giving a average population density comparable to other large cities. He also states that the Atom was launched a mile underground of an already underground bunker along with the fact that the bunker can hold millions of people and is the size of a city

* Defends his calc of Wraith, stating that it was like my calc (using the same speed assumptions as well). He also states (after a very long math dump) that it wouldn't be possible for the mountain to only fall due to gravity

* Defends his calc of Steppenwolf's energy explosion (and therefore Brutaal's durability), stating that all of the energy came from Steppenwolf's death so the total amount shouldn't be different

* Questions the statement of TBBs vaporizing rocks, questions the size of the God Tree due to Madara being visible, gives scans of a stronger Naruto being afraid of lava in Kaguya's dimensions.

* Explains why he stated that Superman could vaporize steel. The metal structure was smoking and civilians below were not hit by any debris

* Once again states that Blanque's TK would counter the TSBs

* Claims that the reason the God Tree was cut was due to heat, not power from the lava rasenshuriken

* Like Kerd before, I believe Ame misinterpreted what he was saying in regards to clones. Kerd never said they were tough, just that they were fast and could produce powerful attacks to help distract/take down Ame's team

* Claims that Wood Dragons can constantly absorb energy, which would weaken the TBB blast. Also that blunt force attacks are not comparable to cutting attacks

* States that Blanque can counter any of Kerd's teams tangiable ranged attacks with TK and reminds Kerd that his entire team is capable of flight

* Claims that TBBs require a large wind up time, can be moved by Blanque's TK, or can just be avoided as long as they're over 3.43 meters away

* States that Obito's arms have no heat reistence feats, that Blanque can inform his entire team of what a TSB can do with telepathy, can deflect a TSB with TK, and says that his team can just dodge them

* Claims that the God Tree takes some time to be summoned and fire a TBB. He also brings up Kerd's comment about a dead on hit being needed to kill ToC!Hulk, who Ame believes is inferior to his team in terms of durability (except Blanque)

* Claims that Sasuke cut through Madara due to heat and not cutting power

* Claims that the databook "Carve away a mountain" statement is vague and might very well be smaller than the mountains his team broke.

* Asks for feats in regards to Naruto's Nine-Tails avatar

* Claims that Blanque's TK can counter Sasuke's Susano'o

* Claims the sharingan is useless against heat vision and TK

* Claims that Blanque's telepathy is far above the mental resistences of Kerd's team (to a point where I found it a bit weird no OoT claims were made but whatever). He also dismisses the Ino scaling with a anti-feat from Part I of Naruto and asks for TP resistence feats for the Ten-Tails/Clarification for the Nine-Tails

* Claims that sharingan genjutsu is not comparable to mind control

* Claims that Naruto's speed boosts aren't enough to overcome heat vision's speed

* States that Wraith can turn invisible which would allow him to use sneak attacks on Kerd's team

**Kerd's second response**

* Provides (imo) a decent counter to the OoT claims

* A big mistake from Kerd is that he once again misinterpreted what Ame was claiming. His calc was that the Atom's body need to be X durable in order to withstand the force of all of that granite pressing into him, not that he has the density or mass of granite

* Mentions a solid point about how slow and weird Steppenwolf's death was indicating the exploison may have gotten more powerful after it had started to travel a good distance from his body

* States that my calc and Ame's calc are subject to different degrees of evidence.

* States that there's no way to get a pinpoint size for Ame's mountain calcs. So (from what I got) he was just saying that Naruto's vague mountains = DC's vague mountains. Which means pound for pound his team hits far harder

* Claims that the Wood Dragon's chakra drain is a active power, not a passive one. So the TBB it took was still at full power. He also brings up scans of Naruto matching Obito's chakra arms

* Claims that Naruto can charge a massive TBB thanks to his clones and teammates providing a good distraction

* Claims that the chakra arms can just recover from being damage since they're fluid

* Claims that the TSBs can be used to kill Brutaal and Wraith and that they're as fast as Obito

* Gives scans showing that Sasuke cut Madara in half when a multi-mountain sized shockwave couldn't

* Gives more feats of his team surviving multi-mountain attacks

* States that chakra produced elements are not like their real counterparts

* States that Kaguya's lava is hotter than normal lava because.... aliens. Honestly not the best counter. Though he gets back into it with some databook scans showing basic fire jutsu can turn humans to ash and Naruto withstood a much stronger version of those

* Provides some good evidence of TBBS vaporizing rocks

* Dismisses Ino's Part I anti-feat due to the large time and power difference then provides feats of the 9 and 10 Tails messing with people using mental attacks

* States that the Tsukuyomi is mind control and should scale because of it

* Says that Naruto can counter Wraith going invisible with Sage sensing and negative emotion sense and that Obito/Sasuke can just see Wraith's soul. He also gives some evidence of Sasuke seeing an invisible extra-dimensional being

* Kerd goes a bit far here with Sasuke's teleport BFR. While he does later claim that's out of character for Sasuke, its a very munchkin move regardless

**Ame's third response**

* Ame defends his calcs. Personally I find that his Atom and Steppenwolf calcs to be usuable, but the mountain calcs use a lot of guess work which I'm not okay with

* Uses other judge comments about my calc as evidence that his own are usable. Personally I find what he says to be convencing, despite some hesistation on my part

* Claims that his team can insta-kill Naruto's clones before they can do anything

* States that the Wood Dragon's chakra absorption is passive not active

* Goes into the size of Naruto's mountains and the God Tree. Providing multiple scans suggesting they are small

* Asks for evidence in regards to Obito's chakra arm speed and asks for heat resistence feats

* States that his team can avoid the TSBs and that they might be capable of shattering them

* Claims that Blanque can prematurely detonate any TBB

* Claims the God Tree is small and that Wraith can absorb Sasuke's chidori

* Asks about how big the moon blast is

* Asks for proof about scaling the 10-Tails to its host

* Provides counter evidence in regards to Kerd's claims that chakra elements are different from their real version

* Asks for evidence about vaporizing rocks and says that TBBs can't have both heat and blunt pressure (which is weird since nukes have both of those things but whatever)

* Gives a scan of Ino messing with Obito (along with another mental anti-feat) and saying that Blanque's TP is vastly above what team Naruto can handle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8vmlww9708

* States that Genjutsu is not comparable to Blanque's telepathy

- I don't agree with Ame's Wraith soul claim. In DC everyone (usually) has a soul. Its against the norm for someone to not have a soul than to have one. To say Wraith doesn't have a soul is not something I can agree with without some evidence. His Batman scan also does not lead me to beleive he can overcome Naruto's means of detection or Sasuke's rinnegan vision

**Kerd's third response**

* Once again says that Atom and Steppenwolf's calcs aren't usable. -While I do see Kerd's point about Steppenwolf, he has not convenced me that Atom's thing isn't legit

* Claims that even if the clones are one shot that's still a decent distraction for his team

* States that if the Wood Dragon's absorbtion was passive then the TBB would have never detonated

* States that since Obito's chakra arms are chakra they're fluid and can easily reform

* Gives evidence that the arms are faster than Obito's base speed

* Gives context of the TBBs breaking. Basically that Guy broke them by punching Madara in them rather than with just raw force

* States that the mountains in the Frost Country are far larger than those seen in the Fire Country. Along with some scans of the 10-Tails to compare height (though ngl his scale chain is weird at times)

* Gives multiple scans showing that the God Tree is consistently mountain dwarfing

* Give a scan showing that a Tailed Beast needs a host to use its full power... but that doesn't really confirm that that host has their durability. Unless he's trying to say that Obito is using it's chakra to amp his durability

* States that his team can aim-dodge heat vision. Which is something against Wraith, but Brutaal's heat vision is tracking

* Gives some examples of the Tsukuyomi being mind-control rather than illisuions

**My decision**

So here's what I got

* Heat Vision not only one shots all of Kerd's team due to the massive heat difference, Kerd provided zero counter to Brutaal's tracking HV

* Blanque's TK was never properly countered by Kerd

* Blanque's TP, even if it can't control any of Kerd's team, still gives him the ability to read their minds and communicate to his team instantly

on Kerd's side

* His team can likely just beat Ame's people to death or blow them up with death balls. But both would need to get pass heat vision and TK first, neither of which seem super likely without effective teleportaion spam and luckly clone dog piles

* Naruto and Obito are faster than Ame's team

* Sasuke can one shot anyone on Ame's team if he isn't killed first and manages to land a Chidori hit

I give the match to Ame, but that's mostly because, as Kerd said "bitch-ass heat vision". There's just no way I see any of them surviving and considering its an in-character go to move I see them rapidly entering a death spiral. But if they manage to survive, all he would need to do is have Obito arm crush them (assuming Blanque just can't mind smash everyone).

Good debate tho