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nerokaian_naval_wank_hut



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Welcome to the beginning of the #nerokaian_naval_wank_hut channel.
[6:52 PM] Great Kol: @Almighty Phakos @Tits @WarriorSaint
[6:52 PM] Great Kol: pls go in here
[6:52 PM] Alli: Kol rlly
[6:52 PM] Great Kol: and stop polluting general
[6:52 PM] WarriorSaint: I am here
[6:52 PM] Great Kol: attaboy cusc
[6:52 PM] WarriorSaint: Okay @Tits can you tell me the matter?
[6:53 PM] Tits: Okay
[6:53 PM] Almighty Phakos: of course submarines can stalk fleets and inflict damage
[6:53 PM] Tits: In essence what is going on is a proposal to invade Akai's ally Yalottska
[6:53 PM] Transoxthraxia: >not buldinf super-heavy battleships
[6:53 PM] Almighty Phakos: they just can't take out entire carrier groups by themselves
[6:53 PM] Tits: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/how-one-tiny-swedish-submarine-sunk-us-aircraft-carrier-20503
The National Interest
How One Tiny Swedish Submarine 'Sunk' a U.S. Aircraft Carrier
Does this mean carriers are obsolete? You make the call.

[6:53 PM] Tits: Anyways
[6:54 PM] Almighty Phakos: Tits a carrier is not a strike group
[6:54 PM] Tits: Let's not get boged down
[6:54 PM] Almighty Phakos: a strike group is made up of many ships
[6:54 PM] Tits: Let me explain Nero
[6:54 PM] WarriorSaint: @Almighty Phakos Depending on their means. Mind you, there was no major naval conventional conflict in 50 years. Cpt. Wayne P. Hughes found out in his research that in 60% of cases where AShM attack was defendable it failed.
[6:54 PM] Transoxthraxia: Carrier Group*** Nero
[6:54 PM] Tits: So cuscy has context
[6:55 PM] Tits: In essence Akai has an ally in the form of Yalottska which it has substantial investments in, a royal marriage, and a mutual defenece pact along with some military bases as well.
[6:55 PM] WarriorSaint: US carrier groups have drawbacks as well, such as high level of electro-magnetic noise they generate for example. But 80% of weather you sink it or not depends on tactics you employ or the defender employs.
[6:55 PM] Tits: Nero is proposing that he would declare war on Yalottska knowing this as well(edited)
[6:55 PM] Almighty Phakos: Nerotysia would not declare war on "yalottska"
[6:55 PM] Almighty Phakos: that would be ridiculously crude
[6:55 PM] Tits: Well coalition against it
[6:55 PM] Tits: Attacking
[6:55 PM] Tits: etc
[6:55 PM] Alli: against terrorsits
[6:55 PM] Tits: Still war in the eyes of Akai
[6:55 PM] Alli: *terrorists
[6:55 PM] WarriorSaint: Hey @Almighty Phakos Could you please let @Tits finish, and then you would speak? Let's do it in a civilized way.
[6:56 PM] Almighty Phakos: Nerotysia might invade, probably without a declaration of war, for the purposes of destroying the religious extremists
[6:56 PM] Almighty Phakos: But Nerotysia will not attack the Eyukate most likely
[6:56 PM] WarriorSaint: I do think that quickening the pace of a chat is bad for our debate. Let @Tits finish please.
[6:56 PM] Almighty Phakos: at least not unilaterally
[6:56 PM] Flauc: shush nero
[6:57 PM] WarriorSaint: @Tits I need more details.
[6:57 PM] Tits: What I have been trying to explain is that an nation like Akai promising to block and defend Yalottska would most likely push away any direct intervention such an invasion.
[6:57 PM] Tits: They would be more than willing to conduct anti-terror OPs per say with the ascent of the military government in Yalottska
[6:58 PM] Tits: But just strolling in would be seen by the Akai as a violation of sovereignity and a cause for war.
[6:58 PM] Tits: It would also undermine the credability of the Akai's state's word to become in essence worthless
[6:58 PM] Tits: Limiting it in terms of foreign policy for years to come.
[6:58 PM] Almighty Phakos: okay so
[6:58 PM] Almighty Phakos: in the roleplay, as I understand it
[6:59 PM] Almighty Phakos: religious extremists, who are opposed to all factions, have seized most of the country and are threatening to be victorious
[6:59 PM] WarriorSaint: @Almighty Phakos Easy easy. Could you tell me your vision of what is happening? Including what Nerotysia is hoping to gain by such an action, including it's national interests?
[6:59 PM] Almighty Phakos: the RP begins with the extremists launching four simultaneous terrorist attacks against four GPd
[6:59 PM] Almighty Phakos: *GPs
[6:59 PM] Great Kol: GPs/regional powers
[6:59 PM] Almighty Phakos: following this, it seems somewhat likely that the GPs will form an international coalition to destroy the extremists
[7:00 PM] Great Kol: precisely
[7:00 PM] Almighty Phakos: this will probably be accomplished by direct intervention
[7:00 PM] Almighty Phakos: given the seriousness of the attacks
[7:00 PM] Almighty Phakos: the coalition will however be fraught with infighting of course
[7:00 PM] Almighty Phakos: and each member will be attempting to carve out the most possible territory for its allied faction
[7:01 PM] Tits: Which is what Akai would suspect would be an issue and would try and block.
[7:01 PM] Almighty Phakos: it is unlikely the Eyukate government will be directly attacked for a long while, if at all
[7:01 PM] Almighty Phakos: okay well
[7:01 PM] Tits: It would instead propose that an operation should be backed by the Eyukate in which it destroys this faction
[7:01 PM] Tits: With the assitence of a coalition
[7:01 PM] Alli: isn't the Eyukate in a civil war at this time?
[7:01 PM] Almighty Phakos: yes
[7:01 PM] WarriorSaint: @Almighty Phakos Question, has some form of diplomacy been attempted between Akai and Nerotysia ?
[7:01 PM] Tits: Ah
[7:01 PM] Great Kol: yes
[7:02 PM] Almighty Phakos: the Eyukate does not have the ability to restore its control over the territory
[7:02 PM] Almighty Phakos: presumably
[7:02 PM] Almighty Phakos: no
[7:02 PM] Tits: Then Akai would propose it would to it itself
[7:02 PM] Tits: Given how it is an ally
[7:02 PM] Almighty Phakos: I suppose Akai could be included in the coalition
[7:02 PM] WarriorSaint: @Almighty Phakos At the same time an intervention does not have to be direct. How well armed are the religious extremists?
[7:02 PM] Almighty Phakos: but I don't think anyone would agree to that
[7:02 PM] Almighty Phakos: Nerotysia certainly wouldn't
[7:02 PM] Tits: It would reject however foreign allied troops moving into the country
[7:02 PM] Almighty Phakos: okay
[7:03 PM] Alli: which a few countries here might reject
[7:03 PM] Tits: As it would be a violation of sovereignity, clear persuing of national interest, etc.
[7:03 PM] Almighty Phakos: well, unless I'm wrong about people's thinking, you'd be up against the Commonwealth, the Entente, and Orcom
[7:03 PM] Tits: iirc they are ISIS tier
[7:03 PM] Alli: seeing as we view the Eyukate as incapable
[7:03 PM] Almighty Phakos: right exactly
[7:03 PM] Alli: but Nero remember
[7:03 PM] Alli: we won't be instantly united against Akai
[7:03 PM] Almighty Phakos: no
[7:03 PM] Alli: so it would be more like a four way proxy war/ war
[7:03 PM] Almighty Phakos: but if Akai opposes all foreign intervention in Yalottska
[7:04 PM] Almighty Phakos: and is willing to enforce that opposition through war
[7:04 PM] Almighty Phakos: like
[7:04 PM] Almighty Phakos: what other outcome is possible
[7:04 PM] Tits: Allowing Akai to operate on the behalf with foreign observers?
[7:04 PM] WarriorSaint: @Tits You do realize that there are multiple ways in which you can strengthen Eyukate without a direct foreign intervention.

Also what does the government of Eyukate say in this matter?
[7:04 PM] Tits: Maybe lesser forces?
[7:04 PM] Tits: In essence what Akai would prefer is maybe not sending an overwhelming force to Yalottska
[7:05 PM] Tits: It would instead prefer a far more limited force
[7:05 PM] Tits: With it leading it
[7:05 PM] Great Kol: oh lovely
[7:05 PM] WarriorSaint: @Tits Can you give me a SITREP on the military situation on the ground?
[7:05 PM] Almighty Phakos: I don't think it will be acceptable to anyone for Akai to lead any intervention
[7:05 PM] Almighty Phakos: or for anyone to lead the intervention, really
[7:06 PM] Tits: Then Akai would have to block you
[7:06 PM] Great Kol: yes lets let iran lead the charge into syria and iraq
[7:06 PM] Almighty Phakos: lol
[7:06 PM] Almighty Phakos: Akai cannot block the coalition
[7:06 PM] Tits: Akai is closer to a hybrid of Russia and China
[7:06 PM] Tits: It can however
[7:06 PM] Tits: It can at the very least damage it tremdenously
[7:06 PM] Almighty Phakos: the coalition will technically be made up of the rest of the world Akai
[7:06 PM] WarriorSaint: @Great Kol And at the same time you need to look how it looks like from Iranian PoV. Akai is trying to satisfy it's national interests.
[7:07 PM] Almighty Phakos: Allidron is allied with Khornera, Mingdai is allied to Kolintha, and then you have Nerotysia
[7:07 PM] WarriorSaint: @Almighty Phakos Have you ever thought of including the Akai into the coalition - by forcing them into some concessions?
[7:07 PM] Almighty Phakos: Nerotysia is allied to Gran Altiplano and Flauc
[7:07 PM] Great Kol: My concern is that his interests prevent the execution of an rp that has been planned since before his presence in the region
[7:07 PM] Almighty Phakos: this too
[7:07 PM] Almighty Phakos: this is kind of interrupting the premise of the RP
[7:07 PM] Tits: I mean Kol what I am trying to say is that it can happen in another way
[7:08 PM] Tits: Things can be rewritten, etc
[7:08 PM] Great Kol: your proposal is just as implausible to us as ours is to you
[7:08 PM] WarriorSaint: @Great Kol It is called "conflicting national interests".
[7:08 PM] Alli: ^
[7:08 PM] Great Kol: im aware
[7:08 PM] Almighty Phakos: this is more of an OOC point cusc
[7:08 PM] Alli: only way to sort it out is of course thermonuclear war
[7:09 PM] Almighty Phakos: this RP has been discussed and planned for a while
[7:09 PM] Almighty Phakos: long before Akai entered the region
[7:09 PM] WarriorSaint: @Alli Why? Akai is at this point trying to realize it's policy. You have a lot to gain. Perhaps you can force Akai to comply with some of national interests of yours - whatever you need - by admitting it into the coalition?
[7:09 PM] WarriorSaint: I am seeing at this point no real attempt at RPing the diplomacy.
[7:10 PM] Tits: Akai would propose alternatives
[7:10 PM] Great Kol: akai wants to lead the coalition or war
[7:10 PM] Alli: why did you tag me?
[7:10 PM] Alli: shud have tagged nero
[7:10 PM] WarriorSaint: @Great Kol Then at the same time Akai does not want to face a war with the entire world. Diplomacy usually begins with bargaining.
[7:10 PM] Great Kol: akai is a rogue state icly, a war is impractical oocly
[7:11 PM] Alli: My national interests are to remove the extremists and establish a state in Yallotska that allows the friendly flow of rubber to me.
[7:11 PM] Great Kol: and yet akai seems to be fine with a war against the world
[7:11 PM] Flauc: I think Akai wouldn't care if the world was at war with him but that' a question for Akai
[7:11 PM] Great Kol: from what he has said
[7:11 PM] WarriorSaint: @Great Kol And expecting a rogue state not to pursue its' interests is just mad. Mind you, Iran is currently backing Shiite militans in Yemen, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and God knows where.
[7:11 PM] Almighty Phakos: right but cusc
[7:11 PM] Tits: I mean Akai would rather declare war to be honest and try and force a crippling victory
[7:11 PM] Almighty Phakos: Akai wants to lead the coalition
[7:11 PM] Tits: I mean Ming is in range of a lot of weaponry
[7:11 PM] Tits: Akai wants at the very least to have a minimal force
[7:12 PM] Flauc: What's a "minimal" force for you? Leading the coalition?
[7:12 PM] Alli: Allidron won't accept anyone leading the coalition.
[7:12 PM] Almighty Phakos: right exactly
[7:12 PM] WarriorSaint: @Almighty Phakos And it does not mean it would. As I said before, perhaps there is a lot of stuff you can enforce on Akai in exchange for putting it into the coalition, or at least some partial recognition of it's action - like US is not really targetting Iranian assets fighting against IS.

Also @Tits I would imagine Hulang would be more of a realist and not really trying to lead to war.
[7:12 PM] Alli: we would tolerate Akai being a part of the coalition
[7:13 PM] Almighty Phakos: Akai can be a minor part of the coalition probablu
[7:13 PM] Tits: Yes but the Grand Conclave is full of the same sort of people who nuked the Guizi in 1984
[7:13 PM] Almighty Phakos: *probably
[7:13 PM] Almighty Phakos: I can't see it leading it
[7:13 PM] Tits: Akai would demand a far smaller force be sent
[7:13 PM] Tits: eg not Iraq levels
[7:13 PM] Alli: :feelsbadman:
[7:13 PM] WarriorSaint: @Alli That is my point. Usually diplomacy is about pursuing one's interests without compromising interests of others. Furthermore, Akai can support  the Eyukate by indirect means.
[7:13 PM] Tits: And would also demand that the Eyukate must be supported as the legal government
[7:14 PM] Almighty Phakos: Nerotysia would not care very much about Akai's demands
[7:14 PM] Almighty Phakos: now, if Kolintha or Allidron cared, maybe Nerotysia would care by proxy
[7:14 PM] WarriorSaint: @Almighty Phakos And bliindly walk into a thermonuclear conflict?
[7:14 PM] Alli: actually
[7:14 PM] Almighty Phakos: when Akai is itself a rogue state
[7:15 PM] Great Kol: and we're threatening nukes over the pimple on osova's bottom
[7:15 PM] Alli: I don't think Tits has serious ICBM capabilities
[7:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: Nerotysia does not expect that Akai would be so dumb as to initiate conflict with a nuclear superpower over this
[7:15 PM] Alli: but it would still be a messy war
[7:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: right
[7:15 PM] Alli: so unless Tits nuked nero somehow
[7:15 PM] Tits: Akai has more than the capacity to pull of a Samson option
[7:15 PM] Alli: I doubt it would escalate to city trading
[7:15 PM] Tits: Nero would be in range
[7:15 PM] Tits: Khorn would not be
[7:15 PM] Alli: wait what
[7:15 PM] Flauc: Didn't we agree you don't have ICBMs?
[7:15 PM] Alli: aren't Nero and Khorn the same distance?
[7:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: roughly, yes
[7:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: iirc
[7:16 PM] Great Kol: they are
[7:16 PM] Tits: http://i.imgur.com/XigIh2l.png

[7:16 PM] WarriorSaint: @Almighty Phakos "Rouge state" does not prevent diplomacy from working. Mind you, US and Iranian diplomats frequently meet and attend talks. Remember the Obama Iran deal?

Furthermore an eventual conflict would likely not be nuclear. This is what analysts of Russian gov concluded and what Kissinger described, also a book called "the Uncertain Trumpet". A limited conventional conflict may as well happen totally without nuclear exchange.
[7:16 PM] Great Kol: nero is like the other side of the planet to tits roughly
[7:16 PM] Tits: Not really
[7:16 PM] Tits: It is a quater of the map
[7:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: Akai is not a nuclear power though
[7:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: as far as I know
[7:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: Akai possesses tactical nukes
[7:16 PM] Alli: Akai is
[7:17 PM] Alli: *o
[7:17 PM] Alli: well Akai has nukes
[7:17 PM] Alli: which makes him a nuclear power
[7:17 PM] Almighty Phakos: well yes
[7:17 PM] Alli: just not one that has thousands of ICBMS waiting to hit Shynka
[7:17 PM] Almighty Phakos: but not in a way to seriously threaten like the Nerotysian peninsula
[7:17 PM] Almighty Phakos: right
[7:17 PM] WarriorSaint: @Alli The question is really how much an Akai can knock down in a first strike.
[7:17 PM] Tits: Akai has strategic nukes
[7:17 PM] WarriorSaint: And also
[7:17 PM] Alli: @WarriorSaint probably not a lot considering a lot of neros assets are sea borne
[7:17 PM] Almighty Phakos: As far as I know
[7:17 PM] Almighty Phakos: nothing
[7:18 PM] Tits: Just not super long range ones
[7:18 PM] WarriorSaint: @Tits
[7:18 PM] WarriorSaint: What are your delivery methods.
[7:18 PM] Daeseong: let's fix this issue
[7:18 PM] Daeseong: no mtual defense pact
[7:18 PM] Tits: ICBM, ship, submarine, cruise missile
[7:18 PM] Alli: nuu
[7:18 PM] Great Kol: thank god
[7:18 PM] Daeseong: there
[7:18 PM] Alli: that would make it boring Dae
[7:18 PM] Tits: That does not solve the issue
[7:18 PM] Almighty Phakos: seems fine to me tbh
[7:18 PM] Tits: Dae
[7:18 PM] Alli: reeeee
[7:18 PM] Great Kol: seems fine to me also
[7:18 PM] Tits: Why would Akai not have one?
[7:18 PM] WarriorSaint: @Tits It does, because who told you you have to intervene directly?
[7:18 PM] Tits: It makes not sense if it values it
[7:18 PM] Almighty Phakos: no it would make it just as interesting as it was before Akai came to the region
[7:18 PM] Alli: see things are more fun when there is conflicting interests
[7:18 PM] Almighty Phakos: there already are Alli
[7:18 PM] Almighty Phakos: tons of them
[7:19 PM] Almighty Phakos: like literally tons
[7:19 PM] Great Kol: akai can still have interests
[7:19 PM] Daeseong: @WarriorSaint precisely
[7:19 PM] Daeseong: you can have interests Akai
[7:19 PM] Alli: but adding Akai is like adding a delicious layer to an already large cake
[7:19 PM] Almighty Phakos: there are three blocs getting together in a coalition here
[7:19 PM] Daeseong: you can even have relations
[7:19 PM] Great Kol: just not ones that obligate to go nuts
[7:19 PM] Daeseong: but no mutual pact for whatever reason
[7:19 PM] Tits: FFS
[7:19 PM] Daeseong: you can do what you like
[7:19 PM] Daeseong: but I' retconning the pact for simplicity's sake
[7:19 PM] Tits: Akai would treat it as it there was a mutual defence pact
[7:19 PM] Almighty Phakos: if there's no pact, why would you do that
[7:19 PM] Daeseong: well, that's your stubbornness
[7:19 PM] Tits: It is more an official thing
[7:19 PM] WarriorSaint: @Tits Let me ask you that way
[7:19 PM] Almighty Phakos: just like do spec ops or something
[7:19 PM] Almighty Phakos: or proxying
[7:20 PM] WarriorSaint: What are Akai's interests in that region
[7:20 PM] Almighty Phakos: supply the Eyuka
[7:20 PM] WarriorSaint: And why is it so vital.
[7:20 PM] WarriorSaint: Hey
[7:20 PM] WarriorSaint: Slow down
[7:20 PM] Daeseong: rare earth minerals and oil
[7:20 PM] WarriorSaint: SLOW DOWN!
[7:20 PM] WarriorSaint: Let Tits speak
[7:20 PM] Tits: Industry, investments, resources, OIL, and most importantly a relative of the Ditu
[7:20 PM] WarriorSaint: We will never solve it that way
[7:21 PM] Tits: The Akai find the idea of losing a relative of the Ditu fundamentally abhorent. Comporable to how the Mongols would react to them losing an ambassador
[7:21 PM] Almighty Phakos: so then eliminate the royal marriage
[7:21 PM] Tits: No
[7:22 PM] Tits: I want that
[7:22 PM] Almighty Phakos: if it's more important than the defence pact
[7:22 PM] WarriorSaint: @Tits You know... from my PoV, indirect intervention when faced with a larger and technologically superior coalition makes more sense.
[7:22 PM] Almighty Phakos: and achieves the desired effect
[7:22 PM] Daeseong: I want the marriage too tbh
[7:22 PM] Tits: I want to preserve canon
[7:22 PM] Tits: It is interesting
[7:22 PM] Great Kol: marriage is fine
[7:22 PM] Tits: I think a Syria situation is more than possibl
[7:22 PM] Daeseong: the marriage is the reason behind the civil war
[7:22 PM] Tits: *possible
[7:22 PM] Great Kol: but as cusc said
[7:22 PM] Almighty Phakos: well okay then
[7:22 PM] Almighty Phakos: don't go crazy about it xD
[7:22 PM] Alli: we can't just remove everything that gets in the way of the gang bang
[7:22 PM] Great Kol: indirect stuff sounds more make sensical
[7:22 PM] Tits: Seriously though
[7:22 PM] Almighty Phakos: right
[7:22 PM] Daeseong: look, why don't u guys just shoot at each other?
[7:22 PM] WarriorSaint: Also @everyone there is a solution in form of a treaty between Eyukate and the governments of the coalition permitting the coalition to operate on Eyukate's territory.
[7:23 PM] Almighty Phakos: indirect intervention would make perfect sense in this scenario
[7:23 PM] Alli: I mean
[7:23 PM] Alli: a lot of us want to remove the Eyukate
[7:23 PM] Alli: so
[7:23 PM] Daeseong: just kill each other
[7:23 PM] Daeseong: that's the reason I'm having this RP
[7:23 PM] Tits: @Daeseong could I ask that instead of intial Iraq it is smaller in scale?
[7:23 PM] Daeseong: you designed these beautiful armies so they can what? Oh yes, slaughter each other and my people too
[7:23 PM] Daeseong: smaller?
[7:23 PM] Tits: I mean the end result will the same
[7:23 PM] Tits: Eg no mases of carrier groups
[7:23 PM] Tits: That is the main issue here
[7:24 PM] Tits: Akai would be more than fine with a few divisions
[7:24 PM] Almighty Phakos: just do an indirect intervention tits
[7:24 PM] Tits: No
[7:24 PM] Daeseong: I've limited to reasonable deployments
[7:24 PM] Almighty Phakos: instead of trying to bully a massive coalition
[7:24 PM] Daeseong: you can depoy divisions
[7:24 PM] Tits: It makes no sense for Akai to so
[7:24 PM] Daeseong: and coalition can some with 4-5 carriers

[8:00 PM] Tits: Although it should be noted
[8:00 PM] WarriorSaint: @Tits With no offense that is kind of not rational approach. History proven that the biggest dictatorships are usually the most cautious ones.
[8:00 PM] Tits: This is a tactic usually reserved for moments of last resort
[8:02 PM] Tits: But @WarriorSaint this is a moment of caution and calculation. It is rational because neither parties desire war and if one is saying it will unless a comporably lesser mark is left then it works. It is in a sense a gamble.
[8:02 PM] Tits: Akai has to back up this sort of mentality as well 1984
[8:03 PM] Valaran: if neither party desires war, then this situation probably would not be one of last resort.
[8:03 PM] WarriorSaint: @Tits Actually I believe that Akai should try to avoid war more than the coalition
[8:03 PM] Tits: Explain why?
[8:05 PM] Tits: @WarriorSaint Why would/should it be more cautious?
[8:06 PM] WarriorSaint: Because

1) It cares mostly about self interest and preservation

2) It realizes it's weaknesses
[8:07 PM] Tits: Akai however believes that should it be able to pull it off, it would be more powerful and it believes it could. I feel it would be cautious and try and avoid the war before finally putting out this as an ultimatium.
[8:08 PM] Tits: It would call first, for a smaller force to assist the Eyukate in securing the country
[8:08 PM] Flauc: I doubt Akai's Ditu thinks he can pull off a war with GPs in all honesty..
[8:09 PM] Almighty Phakos: I'm pretty sure all of the GPs involved do not like the Eyukate
[8:09 PM] Tits: The Akai believe that they could cause enough damage to the GPs to make it not worth it
[8:10 PM] Flauc: Yeah, I doubt the GPs will stop
[8:10 PM] Almighty Phakos: Akai, you're a rogue state asking for rather large concessions
[8:10 PM] Flauc: And if you fight them, they will make sure to kick your ass too
[8:10 PM] Almighty Phakos: why would a GP back down, especially a democratic GP
[8:10 PM] Tits: Because I would cause such destruction that it makes any gains you may get entirely pointless.
[8:10 PM] Tits: Also I am a rogue GP
[8:11 PM] Tits: Closer to Russia than let's say Iran
[8:11 PM] Flauc: I doubt this is about gains, it's about "revenge"
[8:11 PM] Tits: And I have far better reach
[8:11 PM] Almighty Phakos: Akai if we're discussing all-out war
[8:11 PM] Almighty Phakos: You would lose tremendously
[8:11 PM] Tits: That does not matter
[8:11 PM] Tits: Diplomatically speaking, they are prepared to go to war to cripple you as a point.
[8:11 PM] Almighty Phakos: and the gains for the GPs would be that Akai is no longer a problem
[8:11 PM] Almighty Phakos: and also that they don't look weak in front of the electorate
[8:12 PM] Tits: So what is worth more
[8:12 PM] Almighty Phakos: you're not going to be able to cripple anybody
[8:12 PM] Tits: Untold destruction for no real point
[8:12 PM] Almighty Phakos: you can do damage
[8:12 PM] Tits: Phakos that is completely wrong
[8:12 PM] Almighty Phakos: you can't "cripple" anybody
[8:12 PM] Tits: Let me outline what exactly I can do
[8:12 PM] Flauc: How will you cripple Nerotysia, Kolintha, Allidron
[8:12 PM] Flauc: Khornera
[8:13 PM] Almighty Phakos: Mingdai
[8:18 PM] Great Kol: madman theory as an ic doctrine is not conducive to a regional culture of ooc cooperation
[8:18 PM] Tits: I am still typing
[8:19 PM] Great Kol: you are typing to reinforce that you can realistically make countries in ordis do what you want
[8:19 PM] Great Kol: cool
[8:20 PM] Tits: Firstly, due to cyberwarfare capability I can cause tremdenous sustained chaos in the worlds fianicial markets. I can move enough money and shortsell to cripple economies that way. I can fund opposition movements, create propaganda swarm them, that way. Etc This is relatively easy economic warfare and requires little effort to do. Let us escalate then to more asyemmetric measures such as causing terrorism by proxy which would further destablise the political climate and cause you to overact that way furthermore I can target trading ports regularly, smuggle in weapons systems and back those who oppose your current government in some sense. This is may I add done all by proxy leaving me untouched. I can unleash bioweapons into world trade, targetting crops with blights which renders entire sections of food inedible. This can also be done by proxy. Let's escalate even further, there is also the fact that all of Escar is in range of Akai's medium ranged weapon systems aside from it. Especially Mingdai and Kolintha. Its aircraft are more than capable of conducting strikes which are potentially hugely damaging on top of the potential for it to cause huge economic damage. This is also ignoring the fact that Akai's navy is hugely capable on its own and is designed to target and defeat carrier orientated navies which I may add, just losing one carrier is worse than the entire Iraq war in terms of manpower lost. Now imagine the fact that we would handle it in such a manner that you would have to search. Then there is the final option of nuclear weapons of which the very furthest Akai has (comporable to India's arsenal) can reach around a hemisphere. Either way there is always the possibility of huge damage.
[8:20 PM] Tits: What I am trying to say is Kol that just outright ignoring me is stupid and irrational

[8:32 PM] Almighty Phakos: and more probably closer to a Syria situation
[8:32 PM] Tits: It is far closer to Syria for Akai
[8:32 PM] Almighty Phakos: I'm talking about how it will actually play out
[8:32 PM] Tits: Akai would be willing to tolerate indirect forces
[8:33 PM] Tits: And limited deployments against the terrorists
[8:33 PM] Tits: But it would not want it turning into a proxy war
[8:33 PM] Almighty Phakos: okay
[8:33 PM] Almighty Phakos: so it can attempt to negotiate for that not to happen
[8:33 PM] Tits: Hence why it wants at least lip service to the Eyukate
[8:33 PM] Tits: Leave after the situation is secured
[8:33 PM] Almighty Phakos: that's not going to happen
[8:33 PM] Great Kol: right the thing is
[8:33 PM] Almighty Phakos: but it can achieve more modest results without much difficulty
[8:33 PM] Great Kol: any compromise made
[8:33 PM] Great Kol: aint gonna last long
[8:34 PM] Tits: Yeah
[8:34 PM] Tits: The Akai would be moving forces in this situation and would be shadowing the coalition
[8:34 PM] Tits: Just in case
[8:34 PM] Great Kol: so it likely will turn into a proxy war like it or not
[8:34 PM] Almighty Phakos: each of the coalition members will likely maintain independent military operations
[8:34 PM] Almighty Phakos: who would want Akai shadowing their troops
[8:34 PM] Almighty Phakos: who would allow it
[8:35 PM] Tits: What are you going to do to stop them?
[8:35 PM] Great Kol: akai can only hope to prepare to help the eyukate win said proxy war
[8:35 PM] Almighty Phakos: exactly what Kol said
[8:35 PM] Tits: Yeah that is more acceptable
[8:35 PM] Tits: Minimising enemy forces is just such an option
[8:35 PM] Tits: @Daeseong did we say the Akai have military bases in Yalottska btw?
[8:35 PM] Almighty Phakos: not a super realistic one
[8:36 PM] Almighty Phakos: I mean beyond a certain point
[8:36 PM] Great Kol: its acceptable if coalition members agree to it
[8:36 PM] Almighty Phakos: right
[8:36 PM] Great Kol: but you said just a few divisions right tits
[8:36 PM] Tits: Yeah
[8:36 PM] Almighty Phakos: but Nerotysia will be pushing for maximising said forces
[8:36 PM] Almighty Phakos: given the terror attacks
[8:36 PM] Tits: Like three from superpowers
[8:36 PM] Tits: One from GPs
[8:36 PM] Tits: Two from you Kol
[8:36 PM] Tits: Gives you more than enough men to clean up
[8:37 PM] Tits: OOCly speaking I am concerned that this would just turn into a curbstomp fest
[8:37 PM] Almighty Phakos: it very well may turn into a playground for the powers tits
[8:37 PM] Almighty Phakos: which is kind of exactly why we're using Yalos
[8:37 PM] Almighty Phakos: instead of some person's main nation
[8:38 PM] Tits: That is not a good RP however nor is it interesting
[8:38 PM] Almighty Phakos: I disagree
[8:38 PM] Tits: My suggestion would be closer to a more intense Syria
[8:38 PM] Almighty Phakos: with that absolute statement
[8:38 PM] Tits: Not Korea
[8:38 PM] Great Kol: the coalition part will be a curbstomp. its the actions of coalition members that will create interesting conflict when the war becomes more proxified

[8:38 PM] Almighty Phakos: yes
[8:38 PM] Almighty Phakos: exactly
[8:39 PM] Almighty Phakos: and Nerotysia in particular will not be shy about inflating the size of its own contribution
[8:39 PM] Tits: So you are saying that not!ISIS gets wiped out?
[8:39 PM] Tits: Nero this is the issue
[8:39 PM] Great Kol: eventually yes
[8:39 PM] Almighty Phakos: in order to ensure the Ve'ntukoi achieve a good position
[8:39 PM] Almighty Phakos: and yes ISIS will be wiped out
[8:39 PM] Tits: Akai would try and block such a thing
[8:39 PM] Almighty Phakos: Nerotysia will expect everyone else to do the same
[8:39 PM] Tits: It would try and create some agreement
[8:39 PM] Great Kol: tbf nero
[8:39 PM] Tits: "no more than x troops or units"
[8:39 PM] Almighty Phakos: right, and you can work with the coalition to accomplish this
[8:40 PM] Tits: Which is what I have been saying Akai would try and do
[8:40 PM] Almighty Phakos: but setting absolute limits on numbers will not work ICly
[8:40 PM] Great Kol: me thinks OL limiting troop numbers may be a good idea
[8:40 PM] Tits: Ty Kol
[8:40 PM] Great Kol: just in general
[8:40 PM] Almighty Phakos: no, you've threatened war if Nerotysia does not heed your demands
[8:40 PM] Almighty Phakos: yes sure
[8:40 PM] Great Kol: tits cant enforce it
[8:40 PM] Tits: I mean that is the last option
[8:40 PM] Almighty Phakos: I'm saying Nerotysia will be an upwards force on that limit
[8:40 PM] Great Kol: but ol can with backing of superpowers
[8:40 PM] Tits: Yeah
[8:41 PM] Almighty Phakos: Nerotysia will negotiate for limitations
[8:41 PM] Tits: Three divisons for superpowers
[8:41 PM] Tits: 2 for Kol
[8:41 PM] Almighty Phakos: not specific numbers, and not immediately
[8:41 PM] Alli: lol
[8:41 PM] Alli: no
[8:41 PM] Tits: An 1 for GPs
[8:41 PM] Alli: no
[8:41 PM] Almighty Phakos: heh
[8:41 PM] Alli: I will send the force necessary to kill the extremists
[8:41 PM] Almighty Phakos: Alli is bush
[8:41 PM] Almighty Phakos: I like
[8:41 PM] Alli: Allidron IC'ly will not stand for Akai dictating terms
[8:41 PM] Tits: You realise that coalition alone is still overkill?
[8:41 PM] Almighty Phakos: right exactly
[8:41 PM] Almighty Phakos: Nerotysia will not either
[8:41 PM] Great Kol: coalition
[8:41 PM] Alli: I guess.
[8:42 PM] Tits: Even with limits?
[8:42 PM] Tits: Akai would do it via the OL
[8:42 PM] Tits: Then
[8:42 PM] Great Kol: is to ensure behaviour of all members
[8:42 PM] Alli: but the coalition is indeed a way for a lot of nations to get the foot in the door.
[8:42 PM] Tits: And would try and embargo further troop deployments
[8:42 PM] Almighty Phakos: Akai this is after four simultaneous terror attacks, one of which approaches the severity of 9/11
[8:42 PM] Tits: Yeah
[8:42 PM] Tits: We do not give a shit about your issues
[8:42 PM] Tits: We have conflicting interests
[8:42 PM] Alli: wait nero is the plane going to knock a scraper or is it going to just damage it severly
[8:42 PM] Almighty Phakos: Okay then Nerotysia will not care about the arbitrary limits you come up with
[8:42 PM] Tits: Resolve them diplomatically or face the consequences
[8:42 PM] Alli: warrrrr
[8:43 PM] Alli: WARRRR
[8:43 PM] Almighty Phakos: Um one tower will go down, another will just be scraped
[8:43 PM] Alli: ok
[8:43 PM] Great Kol: diplomatic consequences does not real
[8:43 PM] Great Kol: as we all know
[8:43 PM] Almighty Phakos: lol
[8:43 PM] Tits: Yeah Akai would be willing to go beyond diplomatic consequences however
[8:43 PM] Tits: More asyemmtric measures would be taken
[8:43 PM] Great Kol: diplomacy is just the paddling pool between peace and war
[8:43 PM] Almighty Phakos: lol
[8:43 PM] Almighty Phakos: of course
[8:44 PM] Almighty Phakos: nods
[8:44 PM] Alli: shud pin that Kol
Great Kol pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.Yesterday at 8:44 PM
[8:44 PM] Great Kol: oh
[8:44 PM] Great Kol: were in here
[8:44 PM] Tits: My main issue here is that you are treating it like Iraq when it is closer to the Syria/DPRK situation
[8:45 PM] Almighty Phakos: no it isn't
[8:45 PM] Alli: I mean Tits isn't wrong
[8:45 PM] Almighty Phakos: because there are going to be four simultaneous terror attacks
[8:45 PM] Tits: Casus belli is meaningless
[8:45 PM] Alli: Iraq didn't have allies
[8:45 PM] Almighty Phakos: one of which approaches the severity of 9/11
[8:45 PM] Tits: Exactly Alli
[8:45 PM] Alli: Yalottska kinda does
[8:45 PM] Tits: In me
[8:45 PM] Almighty Phakos: Casus belli matters a fuck of a lot in a democracy
[8:45 PM] Almighty Phakos: which is what Nerotysia is
[8:45 PM] Tits: and I cannot just be unilaterally ignored
[8:45 PM] Alli: we know Nero
[8:45 PM] Tits: Tell that to the US
[8:45 PM] Almighty Phakos: the US knows
[8:45 PM] Great Kol: nobody is unilaterally ignoring you
[8:45 PM] Alli: the problem is an unilateral war against a state that has an ally
[8:45 PM] Almighty Phakos: which is why the Bush administration didn't just go into Iraq randomly
[8:46 PM] Great Kol: but your demands are unreasonable
[8:46 PM] Alli: or in a state
[8:46 PM] Tits: How are they unreasonable Kol?
[8:46 PM] Alli: what again are your demands?
[8:46 PM] Great Kol: given the characters of nations you are dealing with
[8:46 PM] Tits: Akai is essentially saying send in the minimal forces
[8:46 PM] Tits: As we do not want to escalate this further
[8:46 PM] Great Kol: akai can probably guess allids arent going to listen
[8:46 PM] Almighty Phakos: yes
[8:46 PM] Almighty Phakos: exactly what Kol said
[8:46 PM] Tits: Okay Kol
[8:46 PM] Alli: it is an emotional invasion as well as a practical one
[8:47 PM] Almighty Phakos: right exactly
[8:47 PM] Tits: Would the US ignore lets say Russia protecting Syria or the DPRK?
[8:47 PM] Alli: the Keisari and Assembly would look awful if they bowed to Akai
[8:54 PM] Alli: @Tits you could possibly agree to limit the Eyukate jurisdiction over a certain area of Yallotska to prevent any conflicts between the Eyukate and the coalition. I assume we would have sectors or whatever to police since insurgency meaning Akai could negotiate for a sector near the border of the Eyukate. That also means Akai could justify sending in troops into the area, under the pretext of fighting the extremists. But in reality they could be used to protect the regime.
[8:54 PM] Almighty Phakos: mhm
[8:54 PM] Tits: that would be unreasonable as the Akai would say that legally speaking that are fighting on the Eyukate's land
[8:55 PM] Tits: they would suggest however that the Eyukate may hold back
[8:55 PM] Tits: And let the coalition do it
[8:55 PM] Tits: Or let the Eyukate take part
[8:55 PM] Alli: no doubt, but these sectors would be used to put down the insurgents.
[8:55 PM] Almighty Phakos: sure fine
[8:55 PM] Great Kol: y'all don't kill eachother pls
[8:55 PM] Alli: the problem arises when we turn against each other hon hon hon
[8:55 PM] Great Kol: gnight
[8:55 PM] Tits: Goodnight
[8:55 PM] Alli: gnight
[8:55 PM] Almighty Phakos: gnight kol
[8:55 PM] Tits: nukes Nero
[8:55 PM] Tits: nukes everyone
[8:55 PM] Great Kol: please no
[8:55 PM] Tits: Muhahahaha
[8:56 PM] Alli: rees
[8:56 PM] Tits: I did say I was going to pull every trick in the book to win this
[8:56 PM] Tits: So yeah
[8:56 PM] Almighty Phakos: likely no one will win this
[8:56 PM] Almighty Phakos: like the most likely outcome is a partition
[8:56 PM] Tits: Nah
[8:56 PM] Tits: The Akai want total unity
[8:56 PM] Alli: of course
[8:57 PM] Tits: And would be willing to do a lot to secure that
[8:57 PM] Almighty Phakos: right but OOCly you should be prepared for a partition
[8:57 PM] Almighty Phakos: and ICly you kinda should be too
[8:57 PM] Tits: ICly it is unacceptable
[8:57 PM] Alli: And Allidron wants a monarchist state that controls all of Yalottska
[8:57 PM] Tits: Alli
[8:57 PM] Almighty Phakos: and Nerotysia wants the Ve'ntukoi in total control
[8:57 PM] Tits: You know the Eyukate is monarchist right?
[8:57 PM] Alli: yes, but not something we prefer
[8:57 PM] Almighty Phakos: the natural conclusion is a partition
[8:57 PM] Tits: Not necessarily
[8:57 PM] Alli: we would probably side with something more pro Entente and less pro Akai
[8:57 PM] Tits: If one force is able to defeat another
[8:57 PM] Almighty Phakos: well unless someone has incredible military success
[8:58 PM] Almighty Phakos: a partition won't happen
[8:58 PM] Alli: Yes of course
[8:58 PM] Tits: You understimate me
[8:58 PM] Alli: hehe
[8:58 PM] Almighty Phakos: but I doubt anyone will have that
[8:58 PM] Tits: :stuck_out_tongue:
[8:58 PM] Tits: Anyways
[8:58 PM] Alli: this is going to be horrible I can already feel it
[8:58 PM] Tits: Let us actually RP this
[8:58 PM] Tits: Do not get bodged down in OOC
[8:58 PM] Flauc: gnight kol
[8:58 PM] Tits: So many good RPs are killed by OOC bickering
[8:58 PM] Tits: http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Taijian-Woerjin_Doctrine o
Taijian-Woerjin Doctrine
[8:59 PM] Almighty Phakos: we're going to have to wait anyway
[8:59 PM] Almighty Phakos: until the weekends probably
[8:59 PM] Tits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare
Unrestricted Warfare
Unrestricted Warfare (超限战, literally "warfare beyond bounds") is a book on military strategy written in 1999 by two colonels in the People's Liberation Army, Qiao Liang (乔良) and Wang Xiangsui (王湘穗). Its primary concern is how a nat...

[8:59 PM] Almighty Phakos: because Kol is busy
[8:59 PM] Tits: If you want to understand the akai mentality read those
[8:59 PM] Almighty Phakos: and the rest of us have to write up the attacks before the RP probs
[9:07 PM] Daeseong: why can't akai intervene directly?
[9:08 PM] Alli: he is
[9:08 PM] Almighty Phakos: he can
[9:08 PM] Alli: he will
[9:08 PM] Valaran: no
[9:08 PM] Alli: that is why he would join the coalition. To use it as a pretext to spam a lot of Akai troops into the Eyukate
[9:08 PM] Almighty Phakos: mhm
[9:08 PM] Almighty Phakos: now of course that will only encourage Nerotysia to spam more troops
[9:09 PM] Almighty Phakos: but y'know he can
[9:09 PM] Daeseong: who are you fighting?
[9:09 PM] Daeseong: ISIS?
[9:09 PM] Almighty Phakos: yes
[9:09 PM] Almighty Phakos: that's the purpose of the coalition
[9:09 PM] Daeseong: o
[9:09 PM] Daeseong: this rp will be short
[9:10 PM] Almighty Phakos: ?
[9:10 PM] Daeseong: rip Thasal'tha tozzo
[9:10 PM] Almighty Phakos: yea they'll die
[9:10 PM] Almighty Phakos: but it will lead to plenty of diplomatic maneuvring in the aftermath
[9:10 PM] Daeseong: or straight up shooting war between factions
[9:10 PM] Daeseong: most likely the latter
[9:10 PM] Almighty Phakos: yeh tru
[9:11 PM] Daeseong: so RP should be in 2 phases
[9:11 PM] Almighty Phakos: proxy war is possibles
[9:11 PM] Daeseong: phase 1: remove ISIS
[9:11 PM] Daeseong: phase 2: real civil wae
[9:11 PM] Almighty Phakos: kind of yes
[9:11 PM] Almighty Phakos: phase 2 will be complicated though because there will likely be large numbers of foreign troops there at the time
[9:11 PM] Daeseong: oh yes
[9:11 PM] Daeseong: a lot of whom will die
[9:11 PM] Almighty Phakos: who will probably avoid fighting and just protect stuff
[9:11 PM] Daeseong: oh no
[9:12 PM] Daeseong: foreign troops are valid targets
[9:12 PM] Almighty Phakos: I mean I think most powers will avoid direct combat with one another xD
[9:12 PM] Alli: ^
[9:12 PM] Daeseong: not the 80 or so million Yalottskii, half of which will have access to a rifle
[9:12 PM] Almighty Phakos: well yea
[9:12 PM] Alli: I doubt you would see Allid troops shooting Nerotysian troops. Maybe Nerotysian troops shooting Akai troops
[9:12 PM] Almighty Phakos: I predict most of the powers will just like protect the sectors assigned to their faction by like the coalition
[9:13 PM] Almighty Phakos: in order to avoid direct confrontations with each other
[9:13 PM] Almighty Phakos: it'll be pretty interesting
[9:13 PM] Alli: but you would see mass Allid arming of pro Entente Yalottski
[9:13 PM] Alli: hhehe
[9:13 PM] Almighty Phakos: because like there'll be like fake incidents, real incidents, skirmishes possibly, etc
[9:13 PM] Almighty Phakos: right exactly
[9:13 PM] Almighty Phakos: and they would just arm their factions
[9:14 PM] Daeseong: okay since this is the plan
[9:14 PM] Daeseong: I propose: the Thasal'tha Tozzo are indeed in control of a vast portion of Yalottsa
[9:14 PM] Almighty Phakos: yes, that was the idea I had in mind xD
[9:14 PM] Daeseong: such that when the coalition liberates regions, they are free to build as such
[9:14 PM] Daeseong: yeah the same idea I had shot down
[9:14 PM] Daeseong: like your aircraft
[9:14 PM] Almighty Phakos: oh you didn't like it? I thought you were like considering it
[9:14 PM] Daeseong: no, I wasn't
[9:15 PM] Daeseong: but now I am
[9:15 PM] Alli: lol
[9:15 PM] Daeseong: so same difference :p
[9:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: lol
[9:15 PM] Daeseong: anyhow
[9:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: ok
[9:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: well yea ISIS controls lots
[9:15 PM] Daeseong: it'll be a race to liberate as much as possible
[9:15 PM] Alli: You mean Thassal
[9:15 PM] Alli: hehe
[9:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: yes yes exactly
[9:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: it'll be so fun
[9:15 PM] Alli: yesss
[9:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: Nerotysian tanks running down the highways
[9:15 PM] Alli: sweaty and steamy too
[9:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: like literally running
[9:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: like in the flinstones
[9:15 PM] Alli: lol
[9:15 PM] Daeseong: in which case the Thasal'tha Tozzo will be by far the strongest faction
[9:15 PM] Flauc: Can Flauc join in on the fun :(
[9:15 PM] Alli: of course
[9:15 PM] Almighty Phakos: mhm
[9:15 PM] Daeseong: I'll have upwards of 70% of the armed forces defect to Thasal'tha tozzo
[9:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: friggin Tozzies
[9:16 PM] Daeseong: and huge militia forces
[9:16 PM] Alli: Flauc can send in crap troops to assist of course
[9:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: kewl
[9:16 PM] Flauc: Crap troops wow
[9:16 PM] Daeseong: to make the fighting much more interesting
[9:16 PM] Valaran: will n00k from orbit
[9:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: yes
[9:16 PM] Flauc: said the worst country ever in Escar
[9:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: Flauc
[9:16 PM] Alli: omg so how many troops will these guys have
[9:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: you can send in help
[9:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: Combined Orcom Forces :heart:
[9:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: no no
[9:16 PM] Flauc: yay
[9:16 PM] Flauc: poop BTR s
[9:16 PM] Almighty Phakos: "Combined Forces for the Liberation of the Yalottski Workers and Peasants"
[9:16 PM] Flauc: shooting wankers
[9:17 PM] Flauc: How about
[9:17 PM] Almighty Phakos: bam
[9:17 PM] Almighty Phakos: I bet the entente doesn't have such a long name
[9:17 PM] Flauc: Combined Forces for the Popular Liberation of Yalottski Workers, Peasants and People's Democratic(edited)
[9:18 PM] Alli: Entente Combined Armed Combatants for the Liberation, Stability and Prosperity of Northern Osova, and Yalottska in Particular.
[9:18 PM] Almighty Phakos: ew
[9:18 PM] Alli: beat that
[9:18 PM] Flauc: :new_moon_with_face:
[9:18 PM] Almighty Phakos: lol
[9:18 PM] Almighty Phakos: the names race begins
[9:18 PM] Daeseong: How many?