Random ATTS QM Ramblings

ALL PC CHOICE CHAR SHEETS: https://pastebin.com/HkDebvJS

>>>Aspirational tends to avoid modernization like the plague in these settings. I doubt it will be that easy.

There is modernization (AEQ was basically an industrial setting with magic but no guns), it's just not so easy as slapping some magic on something. You can make carriages, carts etc that move themselves with magic (I think Maria turned up in one?) but they're not cheap and they're not going to give you the speeds of a combustion engine. Mind you, Talarys could probably produce better ones than most if you up his runecraft and he knows some old Infernal Empire tech if you really want better tech but that would also stand out.

>>Does Pharos still have magical gunpowder?

Insofar as it's reliant on some magical set-up and unwieldy, yeah. They basically only use it on their boats and probably for Imperial Court celebrations that cost more money than passes through the Archipelago in a year.

>>>So I think so far the most annoying part of having a faction is going to be figuring out how to keep our infernals and our humans apart. We are going to need some human military men to lead our troops. So we won't have to drop grigor all over the place when he is more efficient with the infernals.

Well, the bigger question of the infernals i how do you keep them more of a secret. Once they get connected to the faction (and therefore you), you'll need some way to explain them away (entirely possible, as mages have made use of them before in wartime - Grigor alluded to as much in 2.1) and will need to handle the fallout. The alternative is really minimizing their overworld usage to limit this but that increases your dependency on overworld minions (whose opinions of the infernals you can manage better than the general faction).

I will say that being connected to the infernals isn't hugely damaging, although it will change perceptions greatly of you. it's not going to cause a bunch of powerful devils or an archangel to appear and gank you.

>>>Yeah you did mention that Azrael wouldn't view it as within his remit to fly off to the other side of the world to handle some infernals. On the other hand I bet if he knew who exactly was summoning those infernals it would be different.

Of course. Being revealed as an infernal summoner or connected to one in your faction doesn't so much as increase your chances of being noticed by Azrael but act as a multiplier to actions that do increase your chances of being noticed.

>>>I've always felt the infernals are best used minimally but where they are most effective. We should mostly use them for dungeon diving and in attacks we utterly need to make sure succeeds. We can get away with a lot more shit due to this place being the boonies. But we really do not need to be known as an infernalist until it is too late for people to do much against us.

Which is a fair call to make and it is why you have both overworld minions and your summons, and the extra power of the infernals compared to most summons is offset by the fact they stand out horribly. Even your devils will be spotted when used against mages. The decision about how and when to use infernals in the overworld is going to need to be made after this endeavor as it won't be quite so easy to get away with now people who matter will be paying attention.

>>>Though on the bright side with the Malus league nearby and this place being so far out. I doubt Pharos or Gauron would be flipping out too much about another mage looking into forbidden magic in the wild.

Yeah, that's why it doesn't matter much in the short term. But the more shit you get up to after revealing yourself, the more they'll pay attention. Mage with a bunch of demons and devils, talented but who cares - it's the boonies. They've been letting the Malus League play with forbidden magic for 50 years now. Mage with a demon lord, conquered an island or two? Yeah, they'll be paying a heck of a lot more attention than if you had done all that without the infernals. Being known as an infernal summoner is a multiplier - all noticeability events go up by 10% to 20% in the future for distant powers, sort of thing.

>>>This is part of the reason I advocate a slow but steady strategy actually. It's easier to overlook us if we spend years slowly taking the land instead of take it all over night.

To be honest, I expected the timeframe of the quest to be a decade or three when I started so that's probably not a bad idea.

>>>Although. How much attention would we get if it became well known We summoned the twins along with say Krisanem?

The second it's known you summoned a major power like them you'll be attracting absurd levels of attention. Like, continental powers and big name figures start making moves (or at least thinking very hard about them). Of course, that's exactly what I expect the end of the quest to turn into - although it's entirely possible to avoid a visit from Azrael even if you do get outed to some extent but it won't be easy.

Although to clarify, that would depend on if the major infernal power is actually donig anything - just summoning Kris would spook them but they wouldn't act. If Kris blows up a castle? Then they'll know that she's not your boss or that you didn't summon her just for company.

>>>The big thing for me is I expect at the late game to have Azrael showing up. But I also want to make sure by that point we do have people like Krisanem. The big situation I want to avoid is Azrael showing up while we lack the firepower to make a few demands ourselves back at him if he wants something.

If you're worried about Azrael, I will point out that firepower isn't the only way to hold him off. His biggest weakness is that he's an all-rounder with a strong reliance on disruption - somebody with a reasonable amount of power and with anti-disruption abilities could get quite far, especially with assistance. None of the archangels are the insane powerhouses they used to be - blowing up a continent takes a lot out of you, even with some 8000 years of magic reserves. Not that you can just beat him up, but you can potentially make it worth his while to back down instead of pushing himself. Same goes with other powers - brute force doesn't work with everything.

>>>I sure hope Azrael's new form doesn't look like a teenage girl. Because that would mean quest's premature end due to Talaris' death from laughter.

She doesn't look like a teenage girl. That's Samael and Raphael.

>>> I thought all the archangels were dudes this time?

They were all dudes when Rys knew about them. Of course, three of them died in the Cataclysm.

>>> New Endeavour bois. We must Waifu an Archangel

First Requirement: Actually know IC that they are female
Second Requirement: Find/free one of the two that are missing or attract Azrael's attention
Third Requirement: Get to first base without getting murdered brutally by one

>>>Though this does bring up something. How rare are infernal summoners capable of high level summonings? It's kind of interesting they would only be spooked by Kris. Even though that implies the summoner is pretty high up there to pull that off.

They'll get spooked by less, but Kris is a very big problem. There's also the matter of distance - largest infernal army in four centuries is trouble, but as worried as they might be about that the fact remains you're on an archipelago several months sail away. They can make plans to handle you if you actually become a problem for their continent. However, if you've got something big enough to really, truly threaten the major powers on continents then they'll be freaking out a bit. There are a lot of people on Gauron and Pharos who can handle a demon prince and even quite a few some of the weaker demon lords and royal devils - not to mention how powerful they can be if they work together. But bring in an infernal superpower like Krisanem and they'll get really, really nervous.

>>>Time to build an army of infernals larger then Kushans own!

Will you make the deal with Ariel or Malificent to get them?

>>> I kind of wonder now what those two would even want in exchange for loaning out an army of this size now.

Well, you're probably one of the only people who might be able to actually get an answer from the few people who do know. I mean, you're drinking buddies with Araunth and he's literally the greatest of Ariel's subordinates.

>>>Who besides Rys were considered the generals of Malificent, back in the day?

Lacrissa, the succubus queen
Argran, the unending demon lord
Duar, the undying squire

Duar died when Ruathym was destroyed by the dragons. The first two are still around. Thibault has now replaced Duar. Talarys hasn't been replaced.

>>> >undying >died false advertising

Yeah, that's part of the joke. He got the name because he was literally the second oldest devil. People probably thought he was invincible, so they left him behind with a skeleton crew in Ruathym while they went off to fight Ariel's legions (led by Araunth), thinking it would be fine. Then, bam, dragons ruin everything.

>>> How did dragons manage to break out of Infernals' control in the first place? Were they supported by angels or something?

The Empire had been growing cracks in it since the Cataclysm. Too many dead infernals (especially powerful ones) for the remainder to keep a lid on the whole continent, lots of dead mortals whose surviving kin who blamed the infernals for everything horrible that happened (not entirely untrue, as Pandemonium manipulated the infernals and the reapers to start the Cataclysm to begin with adn the infernals were too dumb to notice). Using the growing infighting between Big Mal and Ariel as cover, the mortal races built up their power and struck the right place at the right time. The angels probably helped a little bit, because they felt that the time of divine races was over, but they probably weren't overt about it.

>>> Was Talarys considered an official lieutenant of big mal?

Yes, at least some time after the Cataclysm he was.

>>>Huh. Honestly this makes me interested in how much his return will shake up the Eternal game. A demon lord level infernal summoner in the mortal world sounds like a big deal to both powers. Especially since he already had close ties to one power.

There's no portal left. They don't even know how to make them - they came with the Emergence. There's hasn't been a summoner powerful enough to bring force the most powerful infernals (at full power) since Kushan, and not even the just really powerful ones (at full power) since the Golden Age. They bound Kris with a goddamn Source, until they shut them all down. So yeah, Talarys is a big deal.

>>>Thinking about it, how big was Infernals' Gauron domain in comparison to Hell itself? In terms of economics, population, size, overall importance e.t.c.

At the peak of infernal dominace, perhaps 40% of the infernal population lived in Gauron - and probably included almost the entirety of the most powerful ones. The other 60% mostly tried to work their way up to being part of the 40%. The Empire was the heart and soul of their society - their most important courts were all on Gauron, their rulers were on Gauron. The Infernal Empire referred to only the Gauron domain. Hell was just Hell.

>>>That puts things in a lot of context. At the late game it sounds like we could just call up the archdevils and just say "Tell me your offer."

Remember that even if you can bitchslap an archangel and live to tell the tale, you're not immune to the schemes of infernals.

>>>True. Kushan learned that the hard way. It's part of the reason why I was early on thinking of staying an independent power. Still the army we could gain via a deal with one of the archdevils is highly tempting if we reach that point.

Technically, you could try it with Ariel now if you're feeling really daring. She doesn't truck with mental domination like Big Mal.

>>>Yeah. I would not think that very wise not when we aren't already tossing around demon lord tier force. Simply because I don't trust her at all. Though bringing up the archdevils. I have thought about figuring out what happened to Kauros. I'm sure he would offer a lot to get out of his bloody seal. Only given Talarys opinions on the guy I don't know if bringing someone like that back is a good idea.

Kauros is a 'continuation' thing. He's sealed on Gauron and is stupendously dangerous. He'd be a serious threat to you at full power (and hence in the continuation).

>>> Sweet. An Epilogue chapter

Well, more that there's a possibility of doing a continuation of the quest after it finishes. This quest is more finite than AEQ ever was - it ends with your seal being completely broken.

>>> is Azrael the only archangel Rys met?

Yes, although he was in the general presence of head honcho Myrael, Archangel of Order, prior to the Cataclysm you can't say they 'met'.

>>> Hmmmm. Life = Procreation?
Kind of? Life, in the view of the angelic concept, is about the continuation of all things regardless of circumstance. Death, by contrast, is about finality - the fact that all things must come to an end at some stage by some means.

>>> Does this result in catfights. Pls say yes

Not quite, although Raph and Samael probably fought a lot. Less so with Azrael mediating, though. Samael is the administrative one, Raphael the hot-blooded one - both had difficulties controlling the Angel Lords that Azrael doesn't.

>>> Life, Death, Order, Vengeance. Who is the fifth?

Fyrael, Archangel of Justice. Azrael's opposite.

>>> Huh. Would've thought Vengeance's opposite was Mercy

The angels are the army of Heaven, so they're not really much for mercy.

>>> So, no Archangel of Chaos.

One could say that's what Pandemonium is. Really, angels are all about order. Myrael is the Archangel of Angels, in reality - that's how central to angels his concept is. The other archangels are like the view of their concept through the prism of order, whereas Myrael is just the epitome of an angel.

>>> It's not possible but I like the idea of Rys tempting an Archangel waifu into the Powerside

Well, Raphael was pretty clearly into Talon's lust for power in AEQ. Although that was mostly because Raphael knew that he was slowly running out of power and was desperate for any possibility to save a world he thought would be eventually doomed by the shadowbeasts. So it is possible to tempt archangels if you have some give with your pull.

>>> It's quite ironic that Samael is compassionate one, while Raphael is ruthless one.

Well, that's partly due to their, err, upbringings? Not really sure what to call it. Samael is like 1500, Raph is 1200. Sam was old enough when Kushan came around to feel she should have done better, while Raph was still learnign the ropes. Afterwards, Raph mostly saw a lot of shit that, in retrospect, the angels should have stomped on more so.

Also, Raph is younger than almost every angel lord, whereas Sam is only younger than two (Sirion and Malior). So being 'boss' of a bunch of angels older than you resulted in her taking on that huge hulking form. Both of them pretended to be male in AEQ - in this one, probably only Raph did.

>>>That's part of the reason I was saying early on that I wanted to build up a lot of firepower for the angels. The angels in AEQ never seemed impossible to bargain with. And rys doesn't exactly want Gauron to get eaten by shadow beasts himself.
>>> none of the infernals do, really

The difference is that the infernals want to rule it so that they can party hardy in it with a whole bunch of mortal slaves catering to their whims instead of working hard themselves. The angels want the mortal races to try to get back to normal (or as close to it, after literally the entirety of their history knee-deep in insanity) without getting wiped out by all these divine nuisances that keep cropping up.

>>> There is implication that there were multiple portals to Hell and Heaven. Were most of them destroyed in the Cataclysm?

Yup. Although the Heaven ones can technically be rebuilt, the heavenly beings capable of it are no longer allowed to set foot on this world and the mortals they used to maintain the old ones are long gone - the archangels don't know enough to teach anybody else and they're forbidden to pass on knowledge from the Angelic Record (huge body of knowledge that angels can access mentally) to teach anybody. The Last Retreat has its name for a reason that does not relate to the shadow beast incursion.

The Hell ones appeared all across the world in the Emergence, but those outside of Gauron were all destroyed in the Emergence wars.

>>> Also, Damn it asp why must you make so many damn good waifus D: I want them all now!

You haven't even met these ones. Although I will say they are good waifus. The archangels are some of my favorite characters, and Azrael's the new hotness for me as she's a much newer creation than the other two.

>>> It's remarkable Last Retreat Portal was left intact. I'm sure it's not for the lack of trying on Infernals' side.

Well, the infernals have never really wanted to get rid of them entirely. The angels were the best way to deal with Pandemonium, and the infernals were more worried about the reapers.

The loss of the other portals relates more to the events of the Cataclysm - the loss of the reaper's continent and the reason the angels left their 'home' continent of Pharos.

Also, the Last Retreat is absurdly well protected. It was built to defend against Pandemonium, so the infernals never had a damn chance. Absurdly massive fortress with astral power defenses built into it.

>>>Honestly the archangels are one of the few people I would accept as a waifu. I'd say the list would go something like Archangels, Darus, Any mage on Alyces level, Ariel. A high tier helldragon or A 6+ tall havoc fox. Would be where I would keep the line at.

There's only two helldragons, unless you convert one of the dragons I put in the quest into one, and only one female helldragon. Mind you, Lyria could probably fight on par or better than with a 6-tail havoc fox. Also, Fara could be a 6-tail havoc fox, which is why I suspect you were so specific.

>>>Yeah pretty much. The main reason I was so specific there was because Fara could make up for her inherit lower power via having astral power. Which we need a lot of.

Very true, although it's important to note that havoc foxes are... indirect users of astral power. Or, to be more accurate, their concepts are very, very narrow compared to most because of their nature. Karrem's ability to manipulate space and physics in general sounds wonderful, except it's not terribly special compared to what many true astral power users are capable of. She'd still be amazing, especially compared to sorcery-users such as infernals, but not quite at the level of genuine astral beings or astral power users.

>>> Did infernals even fight panoleth that much in the Cataclysm? Or was that basically "Infernals started fighting reapers, then angels came and nuked everyone."

Things went crazy after the angels intervened. The angels stepped in to try to nullify the war between the infernals and the reapers - when those parties started to step back, the panoleth stepped in to keep the chaos going. As a result, it turned into a massive free-for-all. That's why Rys has PTSD over the panoleth - they did some nasty shit to the infernals, as they're much better at blending in and countering sorcery than the angels (who tend to just bulldoze their opponents, with Azrael being the noteworthy exception).

In the end, the angels realized Pandemonium were playing for keeps and nuked their continent while doing some other stuff. Said other stuff resulted in them withdrawing from Pharos, Pharos becoming... weird (there's a good reason the foxes are the way they are there), and the Fae somehow being able to walk Gauron and spread Arcadia into the material realm outside of Pandemonium itself.

>>>The Malus league will be a pain to deal with since they have all those forts/castles. Though seeing as we don't have to deal with them yet it's not too bad. I'm still wondering where exactly on Dalyro(?) our Castle will down though, we'll either be inside the federation or close to an expanding group with a castle to turtle up in. Either way it's (hopefully) better than fighting crazy, will fortified mages

You actually get a choice between being near Morstaine (which is a mix of Gaurons and elves), being smack bang in the middle of the federation and the unclaimed northern area (which has a bunch of rebellious Kinadain). Basically, the castle is always in a mountainous area.

>>>You know one of my favorite things about this setting is how with enough raw power you can actually pull a Kushan and fight against these people. It never really feels to me that a high tier infernal would have absolutely no chance against an astral user.

I made a pretty clear decision at some stage that at a certain level of power it's more how you fight rather than how powerful you are that determines battles. You might have a natural edge but can still lose. I'm glad people appreciate it.

>>> Wait could we actually figure out how to do the helldragon transformation in this quest?

Well, given that it was something Saul might have worked out during AEQR (one possible way to enhance his and Lyria's powers), yeah.

>>> Sylvian is rolling in her future grave.

She'll be pissed, yeah. You could always pump that Fury Manipulation gift until you can use it on her, of course.

>>> I think she'll be angry enough without us helping her there.

Yes, but you can turn the anger towards whatever you want. As hinted by the sub-skills at level 2, the Fury gift lets you control people in ways beyond just anger - get people to ally with you, declare war etc. It's just that you can't use it to get people to suck your dick because you feel like it.

>>>True. Though to be honest my current idea is more to just build Rys into a powerhouse. Then summon up succubi and the likes for mind manipulation shenanigans.

That's possible but more limiting, as short of Lacrissa you're not getting a controller who can reliably affect the mental abilities of people as strong as Sylvian (outside a battlefield sense) - whereas you can probably start doing it with Fury 4.

>>> Yeah. I'm just the type that prefers more limited mind control in exchange for higher total personal combat power.

That's fair. I'm suspecting that without the promise of smut from the mental abilities it's not as interesting to players.

>>> Let's summon Lacrissa, what could go wrong?

Game over, man. Game over.

>>> I could do with no MC tbh, there is enough of it already.

It's funny I almost scrapped Rys over the worries of people abusing mind control and now there are lots of stuff they could be using it for (like lowering the DCs of the spiritual contract rolls) and nobody wants to take it. Not that it's a bad thing - Rys being more directly powerful just makes him a different character, not a worse one.

>>> I just don't want the quest to devolve into endless smut after smut

Well, that won't happen even if you were to get Fury 5. I'm... a little more cautious about character interaction scenes going completely sexual like they did in AEQ. I think I ended up doing that as they were the only things that got a reaction in the SoL space but that was more indicative of the quest's problems with the readership. For Two Seals, I'm hoping to keep sexual elements there but either in the background or comedic (like the Lilim), with smut being an optinal aside..

>>>I fully expect to use at least some fury manipulation eventually, it'd be too dumb to not use it after it was stated to have been one of the trademarks of him back in the day

Yeah, but at rank 2 you'll basically be limited to regular characters - powerful mages, most magical beings and most infernals are beyond you. Could be intentional from you guys, but yeah, it will be way more limited.

>>> Yeah. Just running all the math I like the concept of some sorcery 5 martial 5 beast over a fury 3-4 martial 3 sorcery 4 or the likes beast.

It really comes down to if you want Rys to be an unstoppable monster himself or to hold sway over a bunch of unstoppable monsters but be merely very strong himself. Lots of different ways to take him.

I also need to make a firm decision about extra skill points and the 3rd seal bonuses - I've got a few ideas, but haven't nutted it out yet.

>>> If you want some real insanity. Summoning 5, Martial 5, Runecraft 5 and sorcery 5 is perfectly possible.

I'm very much aware. You'd lose a lot of power from Fury, which is why if you got extra skill points I'd probably balance it by giving you an extra ability from the 3rd seal bonuses to keep the element of choice at play at all times.

>>> I've always assumed we would get a level in Fury likely from one of the seal bonuses. Just because it wouldn't make much sense if we unlocked everything but at the end had fury 0-2.

One possibility from the 3rd Seal bonuses is to use it to give you skills you've been actively dodging to prevent narrative problems. Another is to give you an extra ability. There's one another but I'll keep it secret for now,

>>> Can humans learn infernal sorcery without gift of it being granted to them? I was under impression it was possible.

It's possible but very hard and they can't be anywhere near as powerful without undertaking some method to better draw on infernal energies from the greater magical plane. Rys draws them in via the holes in his soul that the various gifts grant him. Also, knowledge of it is expensive as it's the core combat material of knowledge devils adn they're the main means other can learn of it - they're more want to offer summoning sorceries than the rest.

>>> Dragons when?

They won't be close to human settlement. You'll also need to actively seek them out.'

>>>Just how much infernal healing hurts if demons (who feel almost no pain) need Lilim to endure it? I bet you can torture people with it. Just cut their skin a little and heal it repeatedly.

Rys can probably get his arm cut off without flinching and relatively minor healing (such as repairing bone breakage) makes him wince. Healing major wounds makes regular pain like nothing. Healing very, very minor wounds like cuts would probably be like a lance of pain but nothing much. Mind you, part of this is based on my personal experiences with internal pain you can't do shit about being worse than external pain like breaking bones or hurting yourself. So your YMMV.

>>> How badly would Hand react to knowing about Talarys? Assuming he got a decent picture.

If by decent picture he knew about the extent of your power and what you'd been up to, he'd be building a coalition of the willing and investigating you for WMDs right now.