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chat w/ blue kirby

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Oct 7th, 2015
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  1. [15:39:28] George S. [Disaster Area]: hey gonna ask a slightly weird topic because it's to do with game mechanics that don't exist in current pokemon (so basically I'm asking, is this codable for bam lol)..
  2. [15:39:53] George S. [Disaster Area]: I was wondering if it was possible to code added effects to have basically a poisson rather than binomial probability distribution
  3. [15:40:07] Michael C: anything is possible to code
  4. [15:40:20] George S. [Disaster Area]: I discussed it a little with one of my friends, I'll c/p the discussion
  5. [15:40:26] George S. [Disaster Area]: [15:27] @Disaster Area: hmm just came up with an interesting idea
  6. [15:27] @Disaster Area: maybe you could have amove with the added effect's possibility being in a poisson distribution so basically
  7. [15:27] @Disaster Area: as an example, say that
  8. [15:28] @Disaster Area: a move has a possibility of dropping the opponent's speed stat by 1 stage
  9. [15:28] @Disaster Area: and that it is dropped at a rate of (typically) 1 time in every 5 turns
  10. [15:28] @Disaster Area: or 0.2 per one turn
  11. [15:28] @Disaster Area: what's interesting is that theoretically you would sometimes see 2 or even more drops of the speed stat over one turn etc
  12. [15:29] @Disaster Area: let me find a graph...
  13. [15:40:35] George S. [Disaster Area]: [15:35] @Disaster Area: ok right
  14. [15:36] @Disaster Area: https://i.imgur.com/IDWva4V.png this image is for
  15. [15:36] @Disaster Area: rate = 0.2
  16. [15:36] @Disaster Area: so in any one turn
  17. [15:36] @Disaster Area: to 2dp, the probability x amount of speed drops happening:
  18. [15:36] @Disaster Area: *y speed drops
  19. [15:37] @Disaster Area: y=0, x=81.87%
  20. [15:37] @Disaster Area: y=1, x=16.37%
  21. [15:37] @Disaster Area: y=2, x=1.64%
  22. [15:37] @Disaster Area: y=3, x=0.11%
  23. [15:38] @Disaster Area: then past that point it's virtually negligible
  24. [15:38] @Disaster Area: basically it's a really nice thing if you wanted
  25. [15:38] @Disaster Area: the possibility of added effects happening multiple times
  26. [15:38] @Disaster Area: but wanted the possibility of them happening multiple teams being much smaller for each extra time it could possibly happen
  27. [15:41:37] Michael C: it’s possible
  28. [15:41:47] Michael C: it would be a little cumbersome, but it’s possible
  29. [15:41:57] George S. [Disaster Area]: [15:40] ~KristophV: yeah i've heard of that kind of thing sort of being used in other games
  30. [15:41] @Disaster Area: nice! like what?
  31. [15:41] @Disaster Area: also chatting to blue kirby about this rn just outta curiosity :>
  32. [15:41] ~KristophV: an rng that sort of goes out of its way to match player expectations
  33. [15:41] @Disaster Area: hmm that's interesting
  34. [15:41] ~KristophV: so like if something misses, it's less likely to miss again
  35. [15:42:03] George S. [Disaster Area]: mm I was just generally curious about
  36. [15:42:20] George S. [Disaster Area]: making use of other probabilistic objects such as distributions
  37. [15:42:22] George S. [Disaster Area]: in pokemon
  38. [15:43:27] George S. [Disaster Area]: hmm another one that might be interesting (not sure what to call it) would be a mechanic in which the probability of missing, given that you missed on the previous attack, is reduced in some uniform fashion
  39. [15:43:30] Michael C: in a game where people already complain about luck i don’t think it would be a popular option lol
  40. [15:44:06] George S. [Disaster Area]: lol
  41. [15:44:26] George S. [Disaster Area]: well part of bam was 'reducing hax' I mean not so crude as that but
  42. [15:44:40] George S. [Disaster Area]: whilst I'm aware that like obviously probability is very important on its impact on the game
  43. [15:44:49] Michael C: i’m just imagining the scenario where you lose a game to the .1% -3 drop
  44. [15:44:52] George S. [Disaster Area]: a lot of it does annoy players, so I was curious about designing a game where the probability
  45. [15:45:21] George S. [Disaster Area]: had less of animpact but without the impact being so big that the game turns into primarily game theory-related probabilities anyway
  46. [15:45:48] George S. [Disaster Area]: mm well blue Kirby
  47. [15:45:49] George S. [Disaster Area]: i’m just imagining the scenario where you lose a game to the .1% -3 drop
  48. [15:45:57] George S. [Disaster Area]: I mean you could create it so that after x number of misses
  49. [15:46:02] George S. [Disaster Area]: the probability of missing becomes zero
  50. [15:46:08] George S. [Disaster Area]: for the next attack
  51. [15:46:22] Michael C: i remember someone discussing the possibility of having very little (or maybe no) crit chance, but it would steadily rise as the two pokemon didn’t switch out
  52. [15:46:28] Michael C: putting an interesting twist on CM walls and stalling
  53. [15:46:32] George S. [Disaster Area]: actually
  54. [15:46:36] George S. [Disaster Area]: bam had its own twist on
  55. [15:46:39] George S. [Disaster Area]: the cm war thing
  56. [15:46:50] George S. [Disaster Area]: think I already explained to you how the crit mechanics worked? or should I reiterate it
  57. [15:46:59] Michael C: might as well give me a refresher
  58. [15:47:06] Michael C: there was a lot of material there lol
  59. [15:47:35] George S. [Disaster Area]: yeah there was
  60. [15:47:52] George S. [Disaster Area]: Our take on critical hits: 1.5x boost (same as gen 6 ofc); Critical Hits ignore all stat boosts IF the defending Pokémon has accrued boosts in the defending stat. E.g. in a calm mind war, a critical hit would not decide who wins, and thus a calm mind war and PP stall is a legitimate way of checking something (similar to Tobybro vs Tobybro in RBY).
  61. [15:48:21] George S. [Disaster Area]: on the same token though it doesn't have the weird RBY effect of having a crit can stop your sweep
  62. [15:49:03] Michael C: so you’d ignore the stat boost if they had more boosts than you in their appropriate defensive stat?
  63. [15:49:14] George S. [Disaster Area]: if they had any boosts at all in the defensive stat
  64. [15:49:34] George S. [Disaster Area]: so a critical +6 attack vs a +1 defense mon would effectively be +0 vs +0
  65. [15:49:38] Michael C: oh but it’s ALL stat boosts?
  66. [15:49:40] Michael C: including the attack
  67. [15:49:41] Michael C: i see
  68. [15:49:48] George S. [Disaster Area]: yeah
  69. [15:50:11] George S. [Disaster Area]: so basically accruing a defense boost makes crits from opposing boosted monsters the same as if neither had boosted at all
  70. [15:50:33] George S. [Disaster Area]: so as you see w/ calm mind wars and the like, those would effectively become a pp stall like with tobybro vs tobybro in RBY
  71. [15:51:02] George S. [Disaster Area]: but at the same time it has relatively little impact otherwise compared to other critical hit based systems
  72. [15:51:21] George S. [Disaster Area]: at the same time on paper it sounds to me like it would be straightforward enough to code
  73. [15:51:57] Michael C: famous last words
  74. [15:52:03] George S. [Disaster Area]: (^:
  75. [15:52:14] Michael C: “oh yeah lemme bang this out in an hour”
  76. [15:52:20] Michael C: then you emerge a week later “WHAT YEAR IS IT"
  77. [15:52:30] George S. [Disaster Area]: lmao
  78. [15:53:00] George S. [Disaster Area]: either way there's not much that's all that technical in bam's mechanics as it currently stands, I mean I think that's probably the worst of it
  79. [15:53:27] George S. [Disaster Area]: unless I somehow have some dumb idea that gets another effect on probability involved
  80. [15:53:42] George S. [Disaster Area]: oh that reminds me a mechanic I want but forgot to take note of for a while -imo it would be neat if
  81. [15:53:50] George S. [Disaster Area]: attacks never missed if the target is sleeping
  82. [15:54:28] George S. [Disaster Area]: (then again bam is not going to have sleep moves outside of resttalk so it's not too important)
  83. [15:54:51] George S. [Disaster Area]: (hmm although then again that brings to mind gsc zapdos vs snorlax and if thunder was 100% acc whilst lax was asleep that matchup's changed a lot)
  84.  
  85. [16:05] ~KristophV: "in a game where people already complain about luck i don’t think it would be a popular option lol"
  86. [16:05] ~KristophV: the way i understand it, this kind of thing is usually for exactly those kinds of games
  87. [16:06] ~KristophV: like when a 10% miss rate move misses 3 times in a row, people sort of freak out and act like it's some absurdly ridiculous event. really it's 1/1000 which isn't that big of a deal
  88. [16:06] ~KristophV: so the idea is, reduce the chances of it happening again, so those situations are rarer
  89. [16:07] ~KristophV: like imagine if freeze rate in rby were reduced to 20% of its original value every time
  90. [16:07] ~KristophV: so first freeze is 10%, second freeze is 2%
  91. [16:08] ~KristophV: i don't think people would be asking for freeze clause then
  92. [16:09] ~KristophV: "i remember someone discussing the possibility of having very little (or maybe no) crit chance, but it would steadily rise as the two pokemon didn’t switch out"
  93. [16:09] ~KristophV: that sounds cute
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