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BloodknightStudios

IRC chat: Asset Licencing

BloodknightStudios
Dec 16th, 2017
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  1. [23:08:45] <Bloodknight> actually just realised... mich you should better be able to answer duions question regarding the demos and assets from GG being MIT licenced
  2. [23:09:26] <Bloodknight> and changing them or whatever, he has a problem with derivative works and MIT being an issue as not ideal for art assets
  3. [23:09:33] <Bloodknight> which to be fair... it ent
  4. [23:09:39] <Mich> Ok, so what is the actual question?
  5. [23:10:37] <Bloodknight> ideally he wants to re-release a derivative work with a similar licence but not MIT because no art sites have MIT as a licence choice
  6. [23:11:12] <Mich> CC license?
  7. [23:11:23] <Bloodknight> there was a topic on the forum but i cant find it now
  8. [23:12:04] <Bloodknight> i suggested thet CC-BY-SA was the closest, somebody suggested that contact with somebody at GG to change it period
  9. [23:12:28] <Bloodknight> tho not suer whats going oin with GG lately the site is borderlin dead :/
  10. [23:12:40] <Mich> So he wants to make modifications and then upload the derivative to another art site under a CC like art license?
  11. [23:12:58] <Bloodknight> http://forums.torque3d.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1133
  12. [23:13:30] <Bloodknight> opengameart has a list of usable licences, MIT isnt one of them
  13. [23:13:48] <Bloodknight> hes been spending a lot of time and effort upgrading the pacific demo
  14. [23:14:16] <Mich> Ok. So how might I help?
  15. [23:15:23] <Mich> Being that I don't work there anymore
  16. [23:15:25] <Bloodknight> for one, you have greater insight into licencing particularly torque and its demos, and i'm guessing you know better who to chat to regarding a better resolution
  17. [23:15:53] <Bloodknight> i understand that, but your knowledge of who and how is still better than ours
  18. [23:16:10] <Bloodknight> we were outcasts long before you left :p
  19. [23:16:18] <Mich> Yeah. We basically threw everything into GitHub under the MIT license...completely forgetting to find an art license of similar sort
  20. [23:17:23] <Mich> As for changing this. Someone at GG would have to approve adding a license at the top of the repository that is useful for the art content
  21. [23:17:55] <Mich> And it would be as simple as that.
  22. [23:18:19] <Mich> Oversight never rectified, only needs approval
  23. [23:18:48] <Duion> that is not the question
  24. [23:19:15] <Bloodknight> so is there a best person to contact? or eric and let him deligate?
  25. [23:19:28] <Duion> the question is what to do if you upload an art asset out of the repo somewhere else
  26. [23:20:21] <Mich> Step 1: Get permission
  27. [23:20:22] <Bloodknight> well, to be fair, if the issue is solved at the top level by all art assets being declared CC-something
  28. [23:20:30] <Mich> Step 2: Apply license that was granted via permission
  29. [23:20:33] <Bloodknight> problem goes away
  30. [23:20:34] <Mich> Step 3: Upload
  31. [23:20:56] <Duion> you do not need permission
  32. [23:21:22] <Mich> Ok, so start from the beginning Duion
  33. [23:21:38] <Duion> beginning of what
  34. [23:21:53] <Bloodknight> in the beginning there was heaven....
  35. [23:21:54] <Mich> You said "you do not need permission"
  36. [23:22:01] <Mich> So you are correcting me, which means I misunderstood the issue,
  37. [23:22:04] <Mich> So start at the beginning
  38. [23:22:24] <Mich> Before you do
  39. [23:22:33] <Mich> Your forum post is: "So I thought is it possible to relicense those assets?" Yes, it is once you get permission
  40. [23:22:45] <Duion> scenario: I made a model but used a texture from the released garagegames demo which is MIT
  41. [23:22:53] <Duion> now I want to upload it to another site that only has CC licenses
  42. [23:22:55] <Duion> what now
  43. [23:23:13] <Mich> Ok. Get permission to use the texture, get the license approved, apply and uplaod
  44. [23:23:17] <Mich> *upload
  45. [23:23:28] <Duion> the permission was already granted through MIT license
  46. [23:23:34] <Mich> Or save yourself a lot of time and just help get CC applied to the top of the github repo
  47. [23:23:54] <Duion> re releasind the assets under a CC license may help
  48. [23:24:06] <Duion> but CC licenses may carry other issues
  49. [23:24:37] <Mich> You missed my point entirely
  50. [23:24:37] <Duion> I'm not talking about a repo
  51. [23:24:50] <Duion> in a repo this is not necessary since there is already MIT license
  52. [23:24:51] <Mich> Get permission to apply the appropriate license to all the content in the GitHub repo
  53. [23:24:53] <Duion> adding another would be stupid
  54. [23:25:02] <Mich> So you don't have a two step process
  55. [23:25:04] <Duion> I will probably not get that
  56. [23:25:24] <Mich> What art license do you want to use?
  57. [23:25:32] <Duion> the problem is that MIT license is not designed for art therefore it is complicated
  58. [23:25:39] <Duion> I use CC0 for everything
  59. [23:25:45] <Mich> Ok, then the answer is simple
  60. [23:25:46] <Duion> and MIT for some stuff that was already there
  61. [23:25:54] <Mich> E-mail GG and the MIT team request the CC0 license be applied to everything in the repo
  62. [23:26:06] skipper [skipper@82-69-110-36.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit IRC: Quit:
  63. [23:26:30] <Duion> who is that?
  64. [23:27:07] <Mich> I don't know the roster of the MIT team right now
  65. [23:27:13] <Mich> As in, who the point of contact is
  66. [23:27:23] <Mich> But you start there and then funnel up to GG
  67. [23:27:34] <Duion> why the MIT team?
  68. [23:27:44] <Mich> Because they are the gatekeepers of the main repo
  69. [23:27:47] <Mich> Solve at the source
  70. [23:27:49] <Bloodknight> this is where we miss the old GG, where community and devs and GG execs all had peer to peer conversations
  71. [23:28:00] <Duion> did not know there is an MIT team
  72. [23:28:11] <Bloodknight> ok, so by MIT team you mean steering committee?
  73. [23:28:14] <Mich> Yeah
  74. [23:28:17] <Bloodknight> ok
  75. [23:28:23] <Bloodknight> so, jeff :p
  76. [23:28:26] <Mich> Faster to type MIT team
  77. [23:28:37] <Duion> btw the content I'm talking about is not on the GG main repo
  78. [23:28:41] <Duion> it is from the demos
  79. [23:28:41] <Mich> Ok, so you talk to Jeff about getting cc0 applied to all the art and then the two of you talk to someone at GG about getting it in
  80. [23:29:05] <Mich> Still would be nice to have in the main one then
  81. [23:29:27] <Duion> CC0 would make things much easier but also has some problems
  82. [23:29:45] <Mich> Link to the repo you are talking about then, please
  83. [23:29:52] <Duion> does not exist
  84. [23:29:54] <Bloodknight> this is true, also, it might be easier since they can pick and choose which asset packs they allow, given there are several asset repos in the GG setup
  85. [23:30:36] <Duion> I'm talking about the demos
  86. [23:30:39] <Duion> pacific etc
  87. [23:30:45] <Bloodknight> didnt you facilitate the relese of demos to the SC before you left mich? or at least start that process?
  88. [23:30:54] <Mich> I did
  89. [23:30:59] J0hXz [androirc@201.175.135.189] has joined #garagegames
  90. [23:31:12] <Mich> Duion - You are talking about demos that were released, but not uploaded to the GitHub repo with a license?
  91. [23:32:07] <Duion> http://wiki.torque3d.org/main:downloads#toc1
  92. [23:32:26] <Duion> converted versions of the demos
  93. [23:32:36] <Duion> since the proprietary physx etc is stripped the demo is now mostly assets
  94. [23:32:41] <Duion> which is bad to have as MIT
  95. [23:32:48] <Mich> So they were not under MIt license?
  96. [23:33:27] <Duion> they were that is why they are there
  97. [23:33:46] <Duion> http://forums.torque3d.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=653&hilit=pacific+demo
  98. [23:35:08] <Bloodknight> well shit... i cant actually find any licences, not even MIT, which make sthings even more awkward
  99. [23:36:27] <Mich> So did the content you want to redistribute ever hit the repository itself as a commit, under the MIT license?
  100. [23:37:20] <Duion> here is it https://github.com/Torque3D-GameEngine/Torque3D-FPSTutorial
  101. [23:39:20] <J0hXz> =)
  102. [23:40:09] <Duion> no idea where the others demos are from but they are all said to be open sourced
  103. [23:40:20] <Bloodknight> the problem, is that those arent official repos
  104. [23:40:37] <Bloodknight> the files dont have MIT apart from inside the source files
  105. [23:40:39] <Mich> Yeah, those aren't under the GarageGames org
  106. [23:40:59] <Bloodknight> may as well use these :p https://github.com/ldarren/tge-152-fork
  107. [23:41:07] <J0hXz> Lol
  108. [23:41:12] Bloodknight watches mich turn purple
  109. [23:41:48] <Bloodknight> however, this doesnt actually change the problem or the proposed solution
  110. [23:41:48] <Mich> @Duion - Can you cross references the files from that repo with https://github.com/GarageGames/ContentPacks ?
  111. [23:42:09] <Mich> If the art you want to use is in https://github.com/GarageGames/ContentPacks, then someone at GG can just apply the license you want to that and you are in the clear
  112. [23:42:18] <Duion> those were not open sourced
  113. [23:42:29] <Mich> > "If the art you want to use is in https://github.com/GarageGames/ContentPacks, then someone at GG can just apply the license you want to that and you are in the clear"
  114. [23:42:31] <Duion> they just show now since GG stopped paying for their github account
  115. [23:42:46] <Duion> currenlty I'm using the pacific assets
  116. [23:43:01] <Mich> Ok, are the pacific assets in any GG org repo?
  117. [23:43:04] <Duion> no
  118. [23:43:14] <Duion> they were supposedly given to jeff who then released them
  119. [23:43:22] <Duion> here http://wiki.torque3d.org/main:downloads#toc1
  120. [23:43:45] <Mich> Perfect
  121. [23:44:08] <Mich> So then work with Jeff and GG to figure out a good art license to apply to those, get the text listed on the page, and you are good to go
  122. [23:44:19] <Mich> lemon squeezy
  123. [23:45:59] <Mich> Any other question @Duion?
  124. [23:46:33] <Duion> well that was not the question but it would solve it if it was possible
  125. [23:47:02] <Mich> Sometimes the answer you need isn't to the question you asked
  126. [23:48:01] <Duion> it has been 5 years now and those things still not have been solved...
  127. [23:48:02] <Mich> So get to e-mailing and good luck with the redistribution of artwork
  128. [23:48:12] <Mich> Which things?
  129. [23:48:26] <Duion> what was open sourced and what not
  130. [23:48:41] <Mich> Ok, so solve those things
  131. [23:48:47] <Bloodknight> well, to be fair, if you dont ask you dont get, if nobody asks, nobody will answer
  132. [23:48:53] <Mich> ^
  133. [23:49:24] <Bloodknight> its a shame jeff isnt here, i think hes already forming a set of questions and such for eric
  134. [23:50:15] <Mich> Coo
  135. [23:50:40] <Duion> seems like nobody used it officially yet so nobody asked
  136. [23:50:46] <J0hXz> well I have a question. I have update to the last version this demos, I have planed to upload to github tomorrow. Can upload?
  137. [23:50:47] <Mich> Usually when I see Eric my own questions are related to his garden, beer, and potential apocalypse
  138. [23:51:04] <Bloodknight> So, we need licences sorting for all demos, may as well ask for the content packs too
  139. [23:51:12] <Mich> @J0hXz - Ask Jeff or Eric
  140. [23:51:23] <Bloodknight> CC0 ideally, tho i suspect at best we will get CC-BY
  141. [23:51:34] <J0hXz> Ok
  142. [23:51:46] <Mich> Definitely batch a bunch together. Eric's a busy person
  143. [23:51:52] <Bloodknight> i will save this convo in a file just for jeff to read over
  144. [23:51:53] <Mich> Better to solve a bunch at once, rather than spread out over a long period of time
  145. [23:52:48] <Mich> As long as no one acts like an asshole, pretty sure everyone will get what they want
  146. [23:53:00] <Bloodknight> i'm ok, istill have 2 studio licences :p
  147. [23:53:05] <Mich> hahah
  148. [23:53:09] <Bloodknight> i can use what i like when i like lol
  149. [23:53:13] <Duion> best way would be to see if the art can be CC0 licensed and add it to the repos and upload the other demo repos from the official account as well, that way everyone would have proof
  150. [23:53:25] <J0hXz> eric told me a few months ago abot the "contentpack". And I remember it can't be used freely.... don't remember the extac words
  151. [23:53:39] <Mich> That sounds like a good plan Duion. Get with Jeff and communicate to Eric
  152. [23:53:39] <Duion> yes it is proprietary
  153. [23:53:48] <Duion> but the content pack can also not be on github then
  154. [23:54:00] <Duion> tricky situation
  155. [23:54:12] <Bloodknight> true, but i'm pretty sure we know who the author is, we can ask him
  156. [23:54:15] <Mich> Fair warning all leg work will be on "you all"
  157. [23:54:23] <Mich> Don't expect Eric to do any of it
  158. [23:54:29] <Bloodknight> forgot his name now, the max guy that did gideon and the undercity
  159. [23:54:40] <Bloodknight> logan?
  160. [23:54:53] <Duion> well I don't have write access to the official account anymore, otherwise I would have done it
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