(11:49:12 PM) Kurt: Tracie Harris emailed me back.
(11:49:16 PM) sleepcapfish: who is that
(11:49:22 PM) Kurt: she's uh... just a lady.
(11:49:32 PM) sleepcapfish: uhm
(11:49:35 PM) sleepcapfish: ok but so
(11:49:38 PM) sleepcapfish: why tell it tom e
(11:49:44 PM) Kurt: well that's why I said nevermind
(11:49:46 PM) sleepcapfish: is she your girlfriend
(11:50:00 PM) Kurt: no. she lives far away from me.
(11:50:02 PM) Kurt: she is on a TV show.
(11:50:10 PM) sleepcapfish: oh ok
(11:50:15 PM) sleepcapfish: what tv show&what did u email her
(11:50:18 PM) Kurt: I emailed her to ask her about Josephus.
(11:50:42 PM) Kurt: "As far as Josephus, it's interesting. Yes, there are some problems with the legitimacy of his writings about Jesus (which are a few brief passages); but the important thing is that he wasn't a contemporary of Jesus. Josephus would have been born after Jesus was dead. So, anything he writes concerning Jesus can only be a statement that "I've heard people say that..." And so it isn't a confirmation of Jesus, but a confirmation that people were telling stories about Jesus. And I don't think anyone denies that people were telling stories about Jesus. So, if we accepted what he said about Jesus as authentic, all we've confirmed is that stories about Jesus were circulating during the first century. And I don't see that as all that amazing...?"
(11:50:48 PM) sleepcapfish: o_o
(11:50:56 PM) sleepcapfish: what is going on inside your mind curtis
(11:50:58 PM) sleepcapfish: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO YOU
(11:51:04 PM) Kurt: what
(11:51:17 PM) sleepcapfish: i dunno
(11:51:20 PM) sleepcapfish:  iturn my eye for a second
(11:51:25 PM) sleepcapfish: and you're suddenly corrupted
(11:51:28 PM) sleepcapfish: by the BIBLE
(11:51:44 PM) Kurt: ahahaha
(11:51:57 PM) Kurt: well I am very interested in researching the Bible right now.
(11:52:00 PM) sleepcapfish: not that i carei f you're a christian or whatever
(11:52:07 PM) Kurt: I'm an atheist.
(11:52:18 PM) sleepcapfish: i like all my inferiors equally
(11:52:27 PM) Kurt: I want to learn more about the Bible so that when people try to tell me why I should believe it I can tell them why they're wrong.
(11:52:51 PM) Kurt: that sounds coarse, but I also would like to know about its history.
(11:53:28 PM) sleepcapfish: you honestly carea bout this religious debate stuff a lot huh
(11:53:38 PM) sleepcapfish: any personal reason?
(11:53:47 PM) Kurt: I hate religious people.
(11:53:53 PM) sleepcapfish: why
(11:54:08 PM) Kurt: I hate the ones who harm society, anyway.
(11:54:11 PM) Kurt: I'm okay with passive believers.
(11:54:19 PM) Kurt: though I'd prefer there be none, personally.
(11:55:00 PM) sleepcapfish: hmm
(11:55:12 PM) sleepcapfish: well i believe in mystical stuff you know
(11:55:27 PM) sleepcapfish: like not JESUS THE SON OF GOD or crap
(11:55:31 PM) Kurt: I'm open to the idea of mystical stuff.
(11:55:33 PM) sleepcapfish: but mystical things i do believe in
(11:55:47 PM) Kurt: I am not open to saying that we should do certain things to make the mystical stuff happy.
(11:55:54 PM) sleepcapfish: like, if you close your eyes and ask something really hard, some kind spirit or whatever it is might help you otu
(11:56:04 PM) sleepcapfish: oh no my spirits are very convenient
(11:56:09 PM) sleepcapfish: they don't seem to ask a lot of me
(11:56:12 PM) Kurt: they only do what you ask.
(11:56:16 PM) Kurt: sometimes.
(11:56:20 PM) Kurt: about 50/50.
(11:56:27 PM) sleepcapfish: well i don't know if i should call the mspirits
(11:56:30 PM) sleepcapfish: i like calling them spirits
(11:56:36 PM) Kurt: spiritrons
(11:56:43 PM) sleepcapfish:  the ancient greeks called a genius, someone possessed by djiini
(11:56:45 PM) sleepcapfish: or w/e that's spelt
(11:56:46 PM) Kurt: spiritoids
(11:56:54 PM) Kurt: two js
(11:57:02 PM) Kurt: two ns too.
(11:57:02 PM) sleepcapfish: so it might just be an external attribute of my success to... supernatural forces
(11:57:07 PM) sleepcapfish: yes
(11:57:08 PM) sleepcapfish: lol
(11:57:17 PM) sleepcapfish: but i do feel there are some helpful spirits in the world
(11:57:33 PM) Kurt: okay
(11:58:10 PM) sleepcapfish: well the key difference is i don't feel my belief is rational nor do i feel a need to prove its truthfulness to others isuppose
(11:58:22 PM) Kurt: it's comfortable for you
(11:58:36 PM) sleepcapfish: which is why i like mocking some religious people
(11:58:37 PM) sleepcapfish: most
(11:58:45 PM) Kurt: to believe there's a little something else that can help you out when you need it.
(11:58:58 PM) sleepcapfish: well i dunno if it's comfortable
(11:58:59 PM) sleepcapfish: it's like
(11:59:03 PM) sleepcapfish: if you pass near a church
(11:59:14 PM) sleepcapfish: you'll try maintaining *some* sort of religious respect
(11:59:22 PM) sleepcapfish: even though you don't really believe in that
(11:59:23 PM) Kurt: That's a societal thing.
(11:59:40 PM) Kurt: We believe churches should be given that respect.
(11:59:45 PM) Kurt: I think they should.
(11:59:48 PM) Kurt: To a certain degree.
(11:59:51 PM) sleepcapfish: well not necessarily, for example
(12:00:08 AM) sleepcapfish: you'd feel somewhat bad if you started shouting, in your room, 'YHWH is a fucktard'
(12:00:14 AM) sleepcapfish: even though nobody would hear you
(12:00:19 AM) Kurt: I wouldn't.
(12:00:23 AM) sleepcapfish: really
(12:00:27 AM) Kurt: nope
(12:00:30 AM) sleepcapfish: weirdo
(12:00:33 AM) sleepcapfish: ah well
(12:00:39 AM) Kurt: it'd be different if I went up to someone and said
(12:00:41 AM) Kurt: your god is fake
(12:00:43 AM) Kurt: fuck him
(12:00:51 AM) Kurt: but I have no problem saying that god is fake to myself.
(12:01:16 AM) Kurt: though personally I probably wouldn't say he's fake...
(12:01:22 AM) Kurt: except in a colloquial sense.
(12:01:30 AM) sleepcapfish: well he doesn't exist
(12:01:34 AM) sleepcapfish: in the sense that
(12:01:35 AM) Kurt: like leperchauns.
(12:01:36 AM) sleepcapfish: some creepy spirit
(12:01:37 AM) sleepcapfish: does shit
(12:01:41 AM) sleepcapfish: like a leperchaun
(12:01:47 AM) sleepcapfish: and fulfills miracles etc
(12:02:01 AM) Kurt: there's no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
(12:02:05 AM) Kurt: because that's not how rainbows work.
(12:02:10 AM) Kurt: they're an illusion on the horizon.
(12:02:12 AM) Kurt: they have no end.
(12:02:17 AM) Kurt: they only exist when you look at them.
(12:02:17 AM) sleepcapfish: well there might be a pot of gold
(12:02:19 AM) sleepcapfish: who knows
(12:02:29 AM) Kurt: there can't be a pot of gold. Because you'd never reach the end.
(12:02:39 AM) Kurt: since a rainbow is just an illusion of light.
(12:02:44 AM) sleepcapfish: oh cool
(12:02:45 AM) Kurt: there is no physical rainbow.
(12:02:48 AM) sleepcapfish: then there isn't iguess
(12:02:52 AM) Kurt: yeah
(12:03:04 AM) Kurt: I saw a 2 hour lecture on rainbows.
(12:03:09 AM) sleepcapfish: rofl
(12:03:35 AM) Kurt: basically when light hits the moisture in the air at a certain angle, it refracts in such a way that it projects the image of a cone of light when you observe it from a specific angle.
(12:04:00 AM) Kurt: also
(12:04:02 AM) sleepcapfish: oh
(12:04:03 AM) Kurt: all rainbows are double rainbows.
(12:04:06 AM) sleepcapfish: i thought gnomes built them
(12:04:12 AM) Kurt: there are 2 arcs in a rainbow at all times.
(12:04:17 AM) Kurt: they just can only be seen with enough contrast.
(12:04:22 AM) sleepcapfish: DOUBLE RAINBOW
(12:04:25 AM) sleepcapfish: what does it all mean?!?!?!?
(12:04:26 AM) Kurt: lol
(12:04:32 AM) Kurt: it is actually pretty cool because
(12:04:34 AM) Kurt: the inside of the rainbow
(12:04:37 AM) Kurt: is darker than the outside
(12:04:42 AM) sleepcapfish: oh lord
(12:04:45 AM) sleepcapfish: how did yo ufind the time
(12:04:47 AM) sleepcapfish: to watch a 2h our lecture
(12:04:49 AM) sleepcapfish: about rainbows
(12:04:53 AM) Kurt: haha
(12:04:56 AM) Kurt: it was nice.
(12:05:01 AM) sleepcapfish: cool
(12:07:20 AM) Kurt: anyway yeah
(12:07:38 AM) Kurt: Wanting to research the bible is something that is basically being forced on me.
(12:07:41 AM) Kurt: I like knowing things.
(12:07:47 AM) Kurt: when I have the chance I'll learn.
(12:07:53 AM) Kurt: I've lived in religious communities for years
(12:07:57 AM) Kurt: my father was crazy religious
(12:08:17 AM) sleepcapfish: is he deceased?
(12:08:24 AM) Kurt: and I love, love watching religious debates (or any debate). Because when someone makes a completely sound argument, it's so satisfying to me.
(12:08:28 AM) Kurt: no
(12:09:02 AM) sleepcapfish: hmm
(12:09:04 AM) Kurt: I never really knew him, I just had to deal with the fact that my oldest sister was also crazy religious due to being raised by him for 12 years.
(12:09:12 AM) sleepcapfish: i think religious debates are interesting?
(12:09:19 AM) sleepcapfish: but i guess i lost interest in them because i never really heard a sound argument
(12:09:33 AM) sleepcapfish: ah i see
(12:09:41 AM) sleepcapfish: so yeah your background explains your itnerest
(12:10:54 AM) Kurt: I went to church a few times as a child. I remember when I was at my youngest, I was visiting my dad's and he tried to take me to church. But I was really young and there was no way I was gonna sit in a room full of strangers and listen to some guy say words I probably couldn't actually comprehend. Like, it was foreign to me, probably.
(12:10:59 AM) Kurt: occasionally standing up to read.
(12:11:02 AM) Kurt: lol
(12:11:05 AM) Kurt: or, sing, I mean.
(12:11:15 AM) sleepcapfish: lol
(12:11:24 AM) sleepcapfish: i like tradition
(12:11:43 AM) Kurt: the only thing I remember about him taking me to that church
(12:11:45 AM) Kurt: was the kid's area
(12:11:59 AM) Kurt: they had a woman who was specialized I guess in talking to kids about God and Jesus.
(12:12:05 AM) Kurt: And I stole juice and candy.
(12:12:08 AM) Kurt: and left
(12:12:17 AM) Kurt: went and played on the playground outside.
(12:12:35 AM) sleepcapfish: lol
(12:12:48 AM) sleepcapfish: but why are you so opposed to the idea of religion anyhow
(12:13:05 AM) sleepcapfish: i mean i like joking about it too but you seem to have somewhat of a fixation on it
(12:13:14 AM) Kurt: I probably do.
(12:13:59 AM) Kurt: I guess religion might be something I latched onto as an antiquated, irrational belief that we could be better off without.
(12:14:20 AM) Kurt: when I hear stories about how they want to, you know, stop people from being able to do things, that just reaffirms my existin beliefs.
(12:14:32 AM) Kurt: and when I hear stories about people killing people over their gods
(12:14:43 AM) Kurt: I don't think there'd be a way to stop me from not liking religion.
(12:15:39 AM) sleepcapfish: well
(12:15:43 AM) sleepcapfish: not all religions are like that
(12:15:47 AM) sleepcapfish: just saying
(12:15:48 AM) Kurt: nope
(12:15:53 AM) Kurt: I'm okay with buddhist for example.
(12:16:04 AM) Kurt: Buddhists don't tell me gay people can't get married because being gay is a sin.
(12:16:20 AM) Kurt: But all Christians have to believe that, if they call themselves Christians, and believe Jesus' teachings.
(12:16:25 AM) Kurt: Even if they aren't consciously aware of it.
(12:16:38 AM) sleepcapfish: well
(12:16:48 AM) sleepcapfish: some christians have interpretations of the bible that exclude this belief
(12:17:19 AM) Kurt: that's a very recent thing.
(12:17:20 AM) Kurt: very recent.
(12:17:28 AM) Kurt: I think it's one of the more lenient ones.
(12:17:30 AM) sleepcapfish: past 50-ish years or so
(12:17:33 AM) Kurt: The ones that let the priests get married and have sex.
(12:17:41 AM) sleepcapfish: i suppose
(12:17:48 AM) Kurt: but that's the point.
(12:18:02 AM) Kurt: fi the religion is flimsy enough that it buckles to peer pressure, you know.
(12:18:43 AM) Kurt: It wasn't long ago that the Catholic church was saying things like God wanted the Jews to be erradicated. (this has nothing to do with you, I'm just following Godwin's law)
(12:18:53 AM) Kurt: then people started distancing themselves from them
(12:18:56 AM) Kurt: then they changed their tune.
(12:19:13 AM) sleepcapfish: mhm
(12:19:29 AM) Kurt: I just tired to wiki godwin's law.
(12:19:35 AM) Kurt: to make sure I was citing the right one.
(12:19:35 AM) Kurt: >_>
(12:20:19 AM) Kurt: religious debate is probably a very important element of this secularization of religion, I think.
(12:20:44 AM) sleepcapfish: lol
(12:20:47 AM) sleepcapfish: secularization of rleigion
(12:21:04 AM) Kurt: :)
(12:26:04 AM) sleepcapfish: i wonder what belief is anyhow
(12:26:48 AM) Kurt: ahhaha
(12:27:05 AM) Kurt: that would probably get into epistemology.
(12:27:17 AM) Kurt: which I'm not very experienced with.
(12:27:41 AM) Kurt: FUCK
(12:27:46 AM) Kurt: I just tried to wiki epistemology.
(12:27:51 AM) Kurt: I need to get off of here
(12:28:51 AM) Kurt: alright
(12:28:52 AM) sleepcapfish: lol
(12:28:55 AM) Kurt: I think I will go to sleep now
(12:28:59 AM) sleepcapfish: no
(12:29:01 AM) sleepcapfish: you stay awake
(12:29:02 AM) sleepcapfish: forever
(12:29:05 AM) Kurt: i refuse
(12:29:11 AM) sleepcapfish: i don't care
(12:29:16 AM) sleepcapfish: you thin kyou have a choice here?
(12:29:26 AM) Kurt: i have the choices
(12:29:34 AM) sleepcapfish: pfff
(12:29:37 AM) sleepcapfish: you are naive
(12:29:51 AM) sleepcapfish: truth is you have the choices
(12:29:52 AM) Kurt: i am not a robot
(12:29:54 AM) sleepcapfish: but i decide what they are
(12:29:59 AM) sleepcapfish: your choices are:
(12:30:37 AM) sleepcapfish: a) don't go to sleep b) go to sleep if you choose c c) none of the above
(12:31:01 AM) sleepcapfish: good luck
(12:31:23 AM) Kurt: the choice can't require another choice.
(12:31:34 AM) sleepcapfish: don't tell me what i can or can't do
(12:31:35 AM) Kurt: the choice can't be dependent on another choice, that is.
(12:31:38 AM) Kurt: that's silly
(12:31:44 AM) sleepcapfish: well
(12:31:49 AM) sleepcapfish: i guess you stay awake then
(12:31:53 AM) sleepcapfish: until you can decide
(12:32:12 AM) Kurt: i've decided to make my own way
(12:32:16 AM) Kurt: I am the struggler
(12:32:19 AM) Kurt: fighter of destiny
(12:32:20 AM) sleepcapfish: that's not a choice i am giving you
(12:32:25 AM) Kurt: so I choose d) all of the above
(12:32:28 AM) sleepcapfish: ..
(12:32:29 AM) sleepcapfish: the fuck
(12:32:36 AM) sleepcapfish: you just screwed up something in the world
(12:32:37 AM) sleepcapfish: i'm sure of it
(12:32:43 AM) Kurt: maybe