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Sunday, April 08, 2012
12:44 PM - Vorti: fag
12:44 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: hi dere
12:45 PM - Vorti: important minister shit
12:45 PM - Vorti: im going to invite some niggers
12:45 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Alright
12:45 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: is it ic
Your chat with Jacque -- 9000 sanics is now a multi-user chat.
Jacque -- 9000 sanics has been invited to chat.
하사 has been invited to chat.
Sunday, April 08, 2012
12:45 PM - Vorti: no
Xata'nelyth has been invited to chat.
Xata'nelyth entered chat.
12:45 PM - Xata'nelyth: Hm?
12:45 PM - Vorti: Okay
12:45 PM - Vorti: We're waiting on Toast
12:45 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: I'm sure there are others.
12:45 PM - Xata'nelyth: What's this for?
12:46 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: I think I know what it's about, anyway.
12:46 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Something about Ministers.
12:46 PM - Xata'nelyth: I have a guess, but I'm not jumping on anything.
12:46 PM - Vorti: I want to talk to you all about Scorpia and his "reformations" of the CA
12:46 PM - Xata'nelyth: Ah. Figured.
12:46 PM - Vorti: Brb
12:46 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Right.
12:47 PM - Xata'nelyth: Do you think Cosmic should be here for this, even if he's no longer in the faction?
12:48 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Perhaps, but if this is going to go where I think it is, I think the absense of Cosmic may prevent 'bias'.
12:48 PM - Vorti: Yea
12:48 PM - Vorti: h
12:48 PM - Xata'nelyth: I think bias is inevitable given the circumstances.
12:48 PM - Vorti: I don't want to make it look like Cosmic is just trying to weasel back into the faction
12:49 PM - Xata'nelyth: Fair enough.
12:49 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Of course-- but I do know where this is going. I think we all feel the same.
12:49 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: If I'm not mistaken.
12:49 PM - Vorti: We do
12:49 PM - Vorti: But I want to hear from the others
12:50 PM - Xata'nelyth: So we're just waiting on Toast?
12:50 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: As do I.
12:50 PM - Vorti: Could you guys invite whoever on your sf that's a minister or a member?
12:50 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: As far as I'm aware, there are other Ministers.
12:50 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Are we refraining from inviting..... Chief
12:50 PM - Vorti: Yes
12:50 PM - Vorti: This is a ministry deal
12:50 PM - Xata'nelyth: I'll contact Collector.
Collector General ☭ has been invited to chat.
12:50 PM - Vorti: I invited him just now
Collector General ☭ entered chat.
12:51 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: I believe Raygin is also a minister.
12:51 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: But I don't have him.
12:51 PM - Collector General ☭: II sense a conspiracy abound.
12:51 PM - Vorti: Raygin is offline I think
12:51 PM - Vorti: Or he removed me
12:51 PM - Collector General ☭: Raygin's online
12:51 PM - Vorti: Nevermind
12:51 PM - Vorti: Here he is
[ZULU] Raygin has been invited to chat.
[ZULU] Raygin entered chat.
12:52 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: And any others?
12:52 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: huh
12:52 PM - Vorti: We're discussing ministry stuff, Raygin
12:52 PM - Vorti: Is Echo online?
12:52 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: kk
12:53 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: I don't know if Echo is online.
[ZULU] Raygin is now playing Garry's Mod. Click here to join.
하사 entered chat.
12:54 PM - 하사: what
12:54 PM - 하사: why am i here
12:54 PM - Vorti: Toast, we're talking about Ministry shit
12:54 PM - 하사: ooc
12:55 PM - Vorti: Yes
12:55 PM - 하사: laughing_combine_advisors.jpg
12:55 PM - Vorti: ur_a_fagt.jpg
12:55 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Right, Vorti-- down to business, this is your meeting.
12:56 PM - Vorti: Okay, first order of business, I'd like to know all your opinions on scorpia's "reformations" of the CA, namely replacing CC with Chief
12:56 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: Chief should be able to defend himself.
12:56 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: If we are talking about him
12:57 PM - Collector General ☭: I can already see where this is going but my personal opinion on the refortmations? I have none but I've also no qualms with replacing CC with Chief.
12:57 PM - Collector General ☭: reformations*
12:57 PM - Vorti: I'm not asking you your opinions of Chief
12:57 PM - Vorti: Just Cosmic's replacement
12:58 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: i don't think that cosmic should have been replaced.
12:58 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: I've explained my reasons elsewhere, but I do not agree with CosmicCommanders replacement, final line. There's a lot of reasons, that I can list should this become something big, but for now my outlook is that I'm not friendly towards the reforms.
12:58 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: Simple as that. He's a fine leader.
12:58 PM - Vorti: Me too, while I've personal qualms with Chief
12:58 PM - 하사: also he was removed ooc because scorp didnt like needing to defend himself
12:58 PM - Vorti: I'd be mad if ANYONE replaced Cosmic
12:58 PM - 하사: ooc
12:58 PM - 하사: not ic
12:58 PM - Vorti: Yeah
12:58 PM - 하사: it has nothing to do with ic matters
12:58 PM - Vorti: He was removed for OOC reasons
12:59 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: It was an OOC removal, yes.
12:59 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Though for the sake of OOC reasons, we need to address it.
12:59 PM - Xata'nelyth: That's my only beef with the situation.
12:59 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: It's an unjust removal in my orders, really. It needs to be addressed, and the only way is for the Ministers to do something, for Scorpia to see.
12:59 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: Though, it is my belief that the IC reason Cosmic was removed is due to that there needed to be someone who could work better with High Command.
1:00 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: The SeCs did not like Cosmic/Moses.
1:00 PM - Collector General ☭: Second that notion.
1:00 PM - Xata'nelyth: He was always on thin ice with Clarke.
1:00 PM - Vorti: Clarke is a fucking retarded character, but I digress
1:00 PM - 하사: combine advisors > tnb's high command
1:00 PM - Vorti: There was no mention of IC reasoning for his removal
1:00 PM - 하사: he worked fine with the former
1:00 PM - 하사: swimmingly even
1:00 PM - Vorti: And yes,
1:01 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Of course-- but I believe the IC reasoning of the removal was pushed forwards-- or reinforced by the  OOC reason.
1:01 PM - Vorti: If the Combine Advisors wished Moses to stay CA, he would
1:01 PM - Xata'nelyth: According to Cosmic, ICly he was simply being relocated to see to the rehabilitation of a 'shit city' in Europe because Mason personally requested him.
1:01 PM - Xata'nelyth: That's the story they're going with.
1:01 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: Yep.
1:01 PM - Vorti: He had to shoehorn something in because he was forced OOCly
1:01 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: There wouldn't be na Ic removal in the f- Yes, Vorti.
1:02 PM - Vorti: If he wasn't going to be removed for disagreeing with scorpia (not even hyperbole), he wouldn't have been "requested by Mason" at all.
1:02 PM - Vorti: Be right back, grabbing some bacon
1:02 PM - Xata'nelyth: So, we know it's all an OOC thing. The problem is actually resolving the issue.
1:02 PM - Xata'nelyth: I doubt Scorpia will look at a petition we all sign and reverse it.
1:02 PM - Collector General ☭: Define 'resolving' in this case.
1:02 PM - 하사: retconning rp that was
1:02 PM - 하사: in effect
1:03 PM - 하사: metagaming
1:03 PM - 하사: aka:
1:03 PM - 하사: involving ooc matters in ic
1:03 PM - Xata'nelyth: More or less.
1:03 PM - 하사: >in in character
1:03 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Though the removal was not completely IC fueled, you must see that.
1:03 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: We're all on the same page here.
1:04 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: All of us disagree on the removal of Cosmic.
1:04 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Yes.
1:04 PM - Vorti: Save Collector
1:04 PM - Collector General ☭: How observant.
1:04 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Why not a compromise, then>
1:04 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: Then we all, as a group tell Scorpia that. I would also like to say that there is nothing personal with Chief?
1:04 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: I like him.
1:04 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: He'd make a fine CA.
1:05 PM - 하사: compromise is a solution when the difference between parties is of equal salience
1:05 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: I have some problems, but nothing that would inhibit my judgment. I would rather have Cosmic running alongside him, if possible. Could we not present a new 'rank' within the CA?
1:05 PM - Xata'nelyth: If I were to have any reservations with Chief as a person, it would be strictly IC speaking.
1:05 PM - Vorti: While I don't like Chief myself, again, I'd complain if anyone replaced CC
1:05 PM - Xata'nelyth: A new rank was introduced, Jacque. Civil Operator.
1:05 PM - Xata'nelyth: Sankoh had it when Cosmic left for a while and someone else became CA.
1:06 PM - Xata'nelyth: But it pretty much served little function.
1:06 PM - Xata'nelyth: So it was dissolved when Sankoh became CA again.
1:06 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: Obviously there's IC complaints as well, due to Faux's relative inexperience.
1:06 PM - 하사: bbl
1:06 PM - 하사: put my name on anything you all need
1:06 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Ah. Then why not reinforce/reinvent it, and bring back Cosmic? Of course, it would allow Cosmic to retain some semblance of his job within the CA, whilst keeping the IC explanation intact.
1:06 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: If Sankoh was on thin ice, it makes sense not to return him to CA.
1:07 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: But how was he on thin ice?
1:07 PM - Collector General ☭: (related note: that 'someone else' was CrazedGunman on "Victoria Anderson" and he quit after a relatively eventless career)
1:07 PM - Vorti: He wasn't.
1:07 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: I thought you said he was on thin ice with the... advisors?
1:07 PM - Vorti: No
1:07 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Or somethign along those lines.
1:07 PM - Vorti: Clarke didn't like him
1:07 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Ah.
1:07 PM - Xata'nelyth: No, high command. The SeCs, Clarke, etc.
1:07 PM - Vorti: Adv likes to think that Clarke has supreme authority, lol
1:07 PM - Xata'nelyth: A bunch of minor things.
1:08 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: He wasn't that liked by high command.
1:08 PM - Vorti: I doubt that Breen, the advisors, etc would give a fuck what the CCA of a city thinks in regards to the CA
1:09 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: I don't wish to remove Chief, not if it comes to that. I do want Cosmic to return. If we cannot remove Chief, and we all wish for Cosmic to return, what exactly do we do? Talking about IC matters isn't going to establish a diretction.
1:09 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: direction*
1:09 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: I think it is best for all of us to confront Scorpia and say that we do not like the removal.
1:09 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: And that something must be done.
1:09 PM - Vorti: Okay, but
1:09 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Then I would have us sign something, at least. To present to Scorpia.
1:09 PM - Vorti: In all honestly, Scorpia won't give a fuck if we just band together
1:10 PM - Xata'nelyth: Really, the high command isn't the issue here - nor is really Scorpia. Scorpia's main motivation, from what I can tell, is the fact he's an RDA. It's his role to try and stabilize the faction OOCly and place it in RDA hands. The problem is that Cosmic didn't like the concept of the faction being controlled through OOC means.
1:10 PM - Vorti: We have to threaten mass resignation or something like that
1:10 PM - Vorti: And we have to be willing to do that
1:10 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Now, I'm sure most of us don't want to resign our positions, we're not dealing in absolutes.
1:10 PM - Vorti: Of course
1:10 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: I have no qualms with being dismissed, but if we could help it, the main matter is the return of CC, not the removal of our positions.
1:10 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: Then what is the course of action.
1:11 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: The re-establishment of CC within the CA, in a new position-- or so I'd like.
1:11 PM - Vorti: Yes, but threatening resignation will show him we actually have the willpower to do something if he doesn't want to compromise
1:11 PM - Vorti: What I'd like is a dual CA-ship between CC and Chief, but I doubt that'll happen
1:12 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: See, now I would see that as brilliant. I don't see that happening. How understanding is Scorpia?
1:12 PM - Xata'nelyth: I can agree on the dual CA idea. Though it would certainly be bait for in-fighting given the characters don't like eachother.
1:12 PM - Vorti: He isn't.
1:12 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Again, IC is IC.
1:12 PM - Vorti: Xata,
1:12 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Infighting may add a new dynamic.
1:12 PM - Vorti: If Scorpia wants to force an IC hand over OOC matters
1:12 PM - Xata'nelyth: Mmhm?
1:12 PM - Vorti: He can deal with the consequences of doing so
1:13 PM - Vorti: I.e., two CAs bitching at each other nonstop
1:13 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Collector, what is your outlook on all of this?
1:13 PM - Xata'nelyth: I wasn't arguing against it. I think it'd be interesting too.
1:13 PM - Xata'nelyth: Just putting out my observations of what it'd cause.
1:13 PM - Collector General ☭: Don't stop your conversation here on my account, please go on.
1:13 PM - [ZULU] Raygin: We're asking your opinion.
1:13 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: Of course, but I'd like to see your comment, or at least you represented.
1:13 PM - Vorti: It's not our conversation
1:14 PM - Vorti: We want you to give us your opinion, honestly
1:14 PM - Vorti: This goes nowhere if we don't agree with each other on some level
1:14 PM - Collector General ☭: Honestly, you say?
1:14 PM - Jacque -- 9000 sanics: A key point to make here is-- each minister counts.
1:14 PM - Vorti: Yes