#TheBastion SallyTheButcher Chat

13:56* SallyTheButcher ([email protected]) has joined #TheBastion
13:56* DE gives voice to SallyTheButcher
13:56<+Silnius> Sally Sally Sally Sally !! ♫ ♫
13:56<@EldredChandler> :)
13:56<@DE> Hello SallyTheButcher
13:56<+Silnius> It works
13:56<+Colorpinpoint> or not
13:56<+SallyTheButcher> Greetings
13:56<+Silnius> danhezee: you was right !
13:56<+Colorpinpoint> ello SallyTheButcher
13:56<+Silnius> Hello SallyTheButcher :)
13:56<+danhezee> yes
13:56<+Frosty> Ah, SallyTheButcher , we meet again
13:56<@DE> SallyTheButcher, okie so there are some clan members/leaders here as well as TheGrandmaster StackOverflow and danhezee who would like to hear about you tohughts on the current clan/council system
13:57<+TheGrandmaster> sup
13:58<@DE> SallyTheButcher so yeh please in your own time. What do you think of the current subsection and small clans system?
13:58<@DE> and the clan council?
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13:58* PABH_Away is now known as PABH
13:58* gen_applejack goes for popcorn
13:59<@DE> And obvs feel free to ask us any questions
13:59* TheGrandmaster prods SallyTheButcher with the blunt end of a pencil
13:59<+Frosty> That feel when she ends up having a ping timeout
14:00<@DE> She's probs typing a novel....o.0 just give time
14:00<+danhezee> http://ace-spades.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=17138
14:00* Frosty throws an agenda at SallyTheButcher
14:00<+danhezee> lol
14:01<@DE> have patience young grasshopper's
14:01<+Silnius> Sally Sally Sally Sally !! ♫ ♫
14:01<+danhezee> ^ technically DE wrote the link I posted.  I copy pasta'd it for red name tag effect
14:01<+danhezee> wrote the post in the link*
14:01<+SallyTheButcher> I think what is in place now has surved it's purpose and has kept things tidy well, however I think there could be a significant shake up to the whole way of thinking in terms of clans
14:02<@DE> SallyTheButcher, okay. intresting. Any ideas about what kind of shake up? notihng solid, but just any general ideas
14:02<+danhezee> Do tell?
14:02<@DE> nothing* grr
14:02<+SallyTheButcher> I get there's a clan council I believe their function is to judge other clans to be worthy of joining them as well as voting on various other stuff
14:03<@DE> SallyTheButcher and furthermore what do you think of this new clan council proposel? since the current one is not functioning well. http://ace-spades.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=17138
14:03<+SallyTheButcher> I think each clan should govern itself in its own right in its own environment
14:03<+Frosty> ...
14:03<+SallyTheButcher> This would encourage stronger individual identity
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14:03<+Frosty> Don't we have this already?
14:03<@DE> SallyTheButcher, and seperate the weak from the strong alot faster I suppose
14:04* DE gives voice to SneakyMobile
14:04<+SallyTheButcher> I don't understand why individulas would govern other clans
14:04<+SallyTheButcher> and judge their worth
14:04<+Silnius> Ok SallyTheButcher , but maybe aos still need section on forum, or like little seciton to contact clan for match and recruitment. Because if any player come on forum, he will see what are clans on aos
14:04<@DE> SallyTheButcher ill explain
14:04<@DE> most clans fail. they have a 90% fail rate and turn into random threads full of spam and rubbish
14:04<+Tin|AWAY> ^
14:05<+Frosty> ^
14:05<+SallyTheButcher> they would always have forum representation in some form or another this much is essential
14:05* Tin|AWAY is now known as Tin-
14:05<@DE> why would we wan to give a subsection to a clan that turns out like that?
14:05<@DE> thats where the council comes in
14:05<+SallyTheButcher> for exactly the reasons you mentioned Silnius
14:05<+Frosty> I have an idea
14:05<+Frosty> Perhaps clans would need to govern their own forums
14:05<+Tin-> Someone needs to make decision over clans. If every clan got their section, clans would've become chaotic. Chaos. Boom.
14:05<@DE> SallyTheButcher, yeh. a much more here and now issue. is would kagex allow us to slightly change the clan coun cil? as we are considering doing.
14:05<+Silnius> Well, DE , for example, my clan is not so much active on forum, because half of us don't speak very well english, but we need it for have a links with the community. So maybe a part for contact clan will be just good also
14:05<+SallyTheButcher> Why would it matter DE ?
14:06<+Frosty> And to find a clan, a list is made that links to the clans individual forums
14:06<+SallyTheButcher> if they fail they fail nothing comes of them
14:06<@DE> SallyTheButcher, becuase a new council with the new system will be more effective and imrpove the qaulity of subsections
14:06<@DE> improve*
14:06<+SallyTheButcher> I also think there needs to be a lot more wider support to encourage clan creation, recruitment and activity
14:06<@DE> but if they fail and there is no council, they can't remove there own threads
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14:06* Q gives voice to StackOverflow
14:06<+SneakyMobile> d
14:06<@DE> they just block up the subsection
14:06<@DE> and the admins get bogged down with deletion requests
14:07<@DE> which is what has happened before
14:07<@DE> and prompted the councils creation
14:07<+SallyTheButcher> Let me ask a question do you think the way the council operates encourages new players to try a clan knowing they need to win favour with the council?
14:07<+Tin-> Sally, there are too many clans which have no idea what they are doing.
14:07<+Frosty> yes
14:07<@DE> SallyTheButcher thats what we want to change
14:08<+SallyTheButcher> So you change the system DE to one that cuts this out
14:08<@DE> the new system just gathers information
14:08<+Silnius> Maybe section for active clan, and if they want. And a more little section for contact clan or idk
14:08<@DE> the amdins would decide with the council if they get a subsection or not
14:08<@DE> admins*
14:08<+Tin-> Also, clans section need more moderators. It's wild out there! By mods, I don't mean new moderators that came into community, I mean the most experienced clan leaders / clan observators.
14:08<+SallyTheButcher> So why not just have requirements for certain 'support'
14:08<@DE> SallyTheButcher, we tried having requirments. didn't work out
14:08<+StackOverflow> did I miss anything important?
14:09<@tiki> ^no
14:09<+Fornax> nope
14:09<+Tin-> nope
14:09<@DE> the clans still had the high failure rate
14:09<+danhezee> not yet
14:09<+Fornax> and the subsection curse
14:09<+Fornax> someone needs to find a cure for that
14:09* PABH is now known as PABH_Away
14:09<@DE> SallyTheButcher, we jsut want this until 1.0. then you guys do what you like.
14:10<+SallyTheButcher> Sure well you guys are free to carry on as you see best I think the suggestion is an improvement sure
14:10<@DE> becuase i can promise you that while the new system is in operation. it will drasticly speed up the process time for a clans subsection application
14:10<@DE> ahh excellent
14:10<@DE> thank you.
14:10<+Silnius> Yeah but clan can still failed after that
14:10<@DE> moving on o/. SallyTheButcher what questions do you have for us?
14:10<+Tin-> SallyTheButcher: Is it possible that tGM imports new mods on e.g clans?
14:10<+Fornax> aren't we supposed to ask her questions DE
14:10<+SallyTheButcher> indeed decision by council can take some time I have experienced it in my own systems
14:10<@DE> yeh go ahead
14:10<@DE> Fornax
14:10<@DE> Im not stopping anyone
14:11<+Fornax> i'm dry on questions
14:11<@uvs> ...
14:11<+SallyTheButcher> don't get me wrong councils can be great for many things
14:11<+gen_applejack> can we ask if sally even lift
14:11<+StackOverflow> council is unnecessary
14:11<+StackOverflow> at least in the way it's being used now
14:11<@DE> StackOverflow yes, but we lack a better system.
14:11<@DE> so we have to make do
14:11<+Frosty> Can I ask one off topic question quickly?
14:11<+Silnius> I guess if clan is active and can get members, and play on aos often, he can have a section if he wants
14:11<+SallyTheButcher> agreed and it's impressive how you have kept it running by refining etc
14:12<@DE> Frosty if it's not related to clans, no
14:12<+Frosty> ah ok
14:12<+Frosty> I'll wait
14:12<@DE> >kept it running
14:12<@DE> we are changing it becuase it is broken xD
14:12<+StackOverflow> it's come to a halt
14:12<+StackOverflow> nobody wants to manage the clan section, it's broken and unmoderated
14:13<@DE> well (DE gets on his high horse) iv been pudhing them since the councils creation to change it or ditch it.
14:13<+StackOverflow> doesn't scale at all
14:13<+Fornax> true
14:13<+SallyTheButcher> Sure going forwards to keep the clans fresh and healthy we need to look at what can be done to encourage as many competitive sized clans as possible.
14:13<@DE> pushing them*
14:13<+SallyTheButcher> be them small or massive
14:13<@DE> SallyTheButcher competitive clans so rare in aos, due to the massive failure rate of the clans
14:13<@DE> they just don't survive
14:13<@DE> cureently there are only like 3-4 decent clans.
14:13<+SallyTheButcher> Well I am sure we can work towards changing that
14:14<+Silnius> Very hard to found members on aos
14:14<+Silnius> for clan
14:14<+SallyTheButcher> I noticed
14:14<+Silnius> Its not like some other games
14:14<+Tin-> How do you plan to change that sally?
14:14<@tiki> de i think there would be more if there was some sort of match system
14:14<@DE> well, how WOULD you go about changing that SallyTheButcher? :>
14:14<+SallyTheButcher> So let's talk about what you would want in an ideal world
14:14<@DE> tiki quite possibly
14:14<+SallyTheButcher> OK hang on let me answer that
14:14<@DE> SallyTheButcher ranking systme, match system ,leader boards. give people a reason to form a competitive team
14:15<+SallyTheButcher> I think there are basic things to work towards getting such as a ladder
14:15<+SallyTheButcher> clan in game identification
14:15<+SallyTheButcher> Visibility and promotion of clans
14:15<+SallyTheButcher> front page stuff
14:15<@DE> built in ID's you mean? not jsut adding a tag to the name.
14:15<+SallyTheButcher> uhuh
14:15<@DE> ah
14:15<@uvs> All of this points away from a forum and more towards a community type website
14:15<+danhezee> clan in game identification exist how would you improve on it SallyTheButcher
14:15<+Tin-> Promotions?
14:15<+SallyTheButcher> Or some other identifier
14:15<@uvs> And Im all for it
14:16<@DE> [19:21] <@uvs> All of this points away from a forum and more towards a community type website
14:16<+Tin-> How about logins with forum accounts?
14:16<+SneakyMobile> A ladder would be perfect.
14:16<+Silnius> It will be hard to put on game
14:16<@DE> pretty much uvs
14:16<+Fornax> What if, there is some sort of a way to make clan events(clan vs forum...stuff like that) allot easier for the clans.
14:16<+SallyTheButcher> danhezee: you mean changing your name to [Clan]?
14:16<+danhezee> yes
14:16<+danhezee> what do you suggest to improve on that system
14:17<+Fornax> Like if there is a certain groupe of people that volounteer to help organize those events.
14:17<@DE> well currently you impersonate a clan. if the tag was given by a forum linked system that checked if you are in the clan or not..
14:17<+SallyTheButcher> I would add something that wasn't attached to your name for one, be it a typical prefix, bespoke skins identies, or symbols
14:17<+SallyTheButcher> or any other cool idea someone suggests and is possible
14:17<+danhezee> I think the clan council should shift toward managing and organizing these events
14:17<+Fornax> [20:22] <+Fornax> What if, there is some sort of a way to make clan events(clan vs forum...stuff like that) allot easier for the clans.
14:18<+Fornax> [20:23] <+Fornax> Like if there is a certain groupe of people that volounteer to help organize those events.
14:18<+SallyTheButcher> Oh I think we could do a lot to boost recruitment, this is what I mean by promotion, I want to promote the recognised clans
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14:18<+StackOverflow> what about the unrecognized ones
14:18<+SneakyMobile> Free servers for clan matches plox
14:18<+StackOverflow> those are the ones that need recognition
14:18<+SallyTheButcher> I want to help those grow
14:18<@DE> SallyTheButcher, out of itnrest though. how would you promote a prominent clan, like the bastion?
14:18<+StackOverflow> or a popularity boost rather
14:19<@DE> intrest* gah excuse me
14:19<+Tin-> <@DE> SallyTheButcher, out of itnrest though. how would you promote a prominent clan, like the bastion?
14:19<+SallyTheButcher> by making sure they have guides, tips tutorials, just generally help
14:19* Q sets channel limit to 37
14:19<@tiki> what does that mean?
14:19* Kiwaka`AFK is now known as Kiwaka`
14:19<+Fornax> [20:23] <+Fornax> Like if there is a certain groupe of people that volounteer to help organize those events*
14:20<+Silnius> wb Kiwaka`
14:20<+Tin-> Well, I am currently managing Clan Assistance. That can connect with event based stuff.
14:20<+SallyTheButcher> DE: I would do something like liaise with you to know what sort of promotion you needed, and maybe get your guys to make their own assets if that was something you had skills for. I would then run a campaign of some sort to spotlight the clan and show off what it has to offer via a variety of platforms
14:21<+SallyTheButcher> (sorry I am a slow at typing)
14:21<@DE> np, yeh okay.
14:21<@DE> Seems intresting
14:21<+Fornax> Umm.
14:21<+Fornax> What if clan moderatoring has certain levels
14:22<@DE> for complications. don't go there
14:22<@DE> trust me
14:22<+Fornax> like clan leader has the biggest moderator provelages in the clan
14:22<+SallyTheButcher> If there were enough people interested, we could make clan events officer a role, or maybe each clan had a few of those roles to make sure there are specialists dedicated to creating events
14:23<+Fornax> yup
14:23<@DE> SallyTheButcher, so with the whole clan shake up system. make it all a bit more similar to the call of duty clans?
14:23<@DE> yeh?
14:23<+Fornax> Tin- mentioned "Clan Assistance" what do you think about that SallyTheButcher?
14:24<+Fornax> http://ace-spades.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16833
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14:24<+SallyTheButcher> I wouldn't want to copy as it wouldn't be right for Ace, we want a system bespoke for Ace, but yes we could take a few elements from systems like CoD etc
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14:24<DE> EldredChandler?
14:25<@EldredChandler> c&ping
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14:25<@DE> ah
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14:25<@DE> TheGrandmaster StackOverflow danhezee anything to add to sallys point? aks her?
14:25<@DE> ask*
14:26<+Fornax> [20:29] <+Fornax> Tin- mentioned "Clan Assistance" what do you think about that SallyTheButcher?
14:26<+Fornax> [20:30] <+Fornax> http://ace-spades.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16833
14:26<+SallyTheButcher> Fornax: That's definitely the right type of thinking
14:26<+Skynet-> TheGrandmaster: http://i.imgur.com/sG6Si.gif
14:26* EldredChandler removes ban on *!*@108.174.51.2
14:26* EldredChandler sets ban on *!*@108.174.51.*
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14:26<@EldredChandler> iirc rambo
14:26<+StackOverflow> not really
14:26<+danhezee> well not much was actually said
14:26<DE> EldredChandler oh i didnt even notice that, ty
14:26<+danhezee> so i cant really build on it
14:26<+StackOverflow> ^
14:26<+SallyTheButcher> In my opinion people already involved in clans have nothing to lose and everything to gain by helping others develop their own clans as it means more clans being successful and more competition
14:27<+StackOverflow> do you expect to continue using the forums in their current state with all of this clan discussion?
14:27<+TheGrandmaster> I think that the new ideas that dan posted/mumble peeps drafted seems pretty good
14:27<+Tin-> Yeah. Well, what have you said about moderators on clans?
14:28<@DE> [19:33] <+TheGrandmaster> I think that the new ideas that dan posted / danhezee ya'll stealin mah cr3dz
14:28<@DE> lol
14:28<+TheGrandmaster> >mumble peeps
14:28<@DE> >peeps
14:28<+StackOverflow> one of the biggest problems is the clan system as it is currently. it's a manual process, both for the users and moderators
14:28<@DE> so we need more automation
14:29<+SallyTheButcher> This is my concern to Stack I would love for everyone to spend more time on what they love and enjoy and less on maintenance and admin
14:29<+TheGrandmaster> that's what I said
14:29<+SallyTheButcher> ...unless you love admin of course :P
14:29<+Tin-> Moderators? For the official, Clans don't have any moderator specificed. More automation comes with a system on managing clans.
14:29<+TheGrandmaster> http://ace-spades.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=17138&sid=42b18188c79a161d1551eac996856887&start=15#p271325
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14:29<+StackOverflow> so what do you expect to do about that?
14:29<+MKU`Off> I'll vote for anyone that promises less hope for others.
14:30* DE has kicked jagesisk from #TheBastion (jagesisk)
14:30<+StackOverflow> get back to work mku
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14:30<+MKU`Off> But I finished ._.
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14:30<+StackOverflow> dem proxies
14:30<+SallyTheButcher> So out of interest,  if you had no limits, and could think really big, what would you all want to see to develop clans?
14:31<+StackOverflow> [14:34] <+StackOverflow> so what do you expect to do about that?
14:31<+StackOverflow> SallyTheButcher ^
14:31<+SallyTheButcher> (brb I am just grabbing food - 1 min)
14:31<+MKU`Off> [12:36:43] <+SallyTheButcher> So out of interest,  if you had no limits, and could think really big, what would you all want to see to develop clans?
14:31<+Frosty> >Getting food
14:31<+MKU`Off> Player interest.
14:31<@DE> Frosty, don't be a troll.
14:31<+Frosty> Awww, ok :(
14:31<+Frosty> I was about to write something witty
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14:32<+SneakyMobile> Thanks
14:32<+danhezee> Frosty: damn you and your agenda
14:32<+Frosty> lol
14:32<+Frosty> she still hasn't responded to my query
14:32<+Colorpinpoint> brb 40 mins
14:32* Colorpinpoint has quit (Signed off)
14:32<+MKU`Off> Frosty, she only replies to jdrew's
14:32<+Frosty> lol
14:33* Frosty is now known as Jdrew
14:33<+Jdrew> ok
14:33<+Jdrew> lets do this
14:33<@DE> o.e
14:33<@EldredChandler> :<
14:33<+danhezee> now write incoherently
14:33<@EldredChandler> plz no frosty
14:33<@DE> shut yo punk ass up
14:33* SneakyMobile is now known as Frosty
14:33<+Jdrew> nu iiii edo wather
14:33<+SallyTheButcher> back
14:33<+Frosty> Mwahaha
14:33<+Jdrew> fec u snackybostard
14:33<+Jdrew> hyyyy sallie
14:34<+SallyTheButcher> U trolling? :P
14:34<+MKU`Off> >trolling
14:34<+Jdrew> Yes
14:34* DE removes voice from Jdrew
14:34* Q gives voice to Jdrew
14:34<+Jdrew> I am great at it
14:34<@DE> ...
14:34<+Jdrew> the heck happend then lol
14:34<+Jdrew> Gimme back my nick Sneaky :<
14:34<+StackOverflow> jdrew can not be silenced so easily
14:34<+danhezee> poor jdrew
14:34* DE removes voice from Jdrew
14:34* Frosty is now known as SneakyMobile
14:34<@DE> there we go
14:35<+SallyTheButcher> no aswers to my question huh?
14:35<@DE> SallyTheButcher which Q?
14:35<+StackOverflow> [14:40] <+SallyTheButcher> no aswers to my question huh?
14:35<+danhezee> no answer to their question either
14:35<+StackOverflow> I know that feel
14:35<+StackOverflow> [14:36] <+StackOverflow> [14:34] <+StackOverflow> so what do you expect to do about that?
14:35<+StackOverflow> [14:36] <+StackOverflow> SallyTheButcher ^
14:35<+StackOverflow> quotes quotes quotes
14:35<+SallyTheButcher> what was that in relation to Stack
14:35<+Silnius> SallyTheButcher:
14:35<+SallyTheButcher> I hav no idea otherwise and can't answer
14:36<+StackOverflow> [14:32] <+StackOverflow> do you expect to continue using the forums in their current state with all of this clan discussion?
14:36<+SallyTheButcher> don't make me trawl the chat plox ;-)
14:36<@EldredChandler> I wont babby
14:36<+SallyTheButcher> All what clan discussion? For now yeah things are as they are
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14:37<+danhezee> when you make your big bang are you wiping the forums?
14:37<+StackOverflow> all of these ideas that you have/that are being discussed, are they applicable to the current forums?
14:37<+StackOverflow> because it's quite obvious that the current clan structure is not ideal
14:37<+danhezee> The only reason i can think of the big bang would be to hide negative backlash from wiping the forums
14:37<+StackOverflow> I'm curious as to how you expect to fix it
14:38<@uvs> If I think big (still keeping in mind AoSs smaller playerbase) I think more in the terms of a community type website with a forum on the side. There would be clan managing and ability to schedual matches. It is the natural step. The forum setup that we have today I belive is mostly because it was easy implement.
14:38<+SallyTheButcher> If you are asking me to discuss things to come you know I can't quite yet, but we will talk more about all that pretty soon
14:38<@DE> SallyTheButcher then tell us if that is a possibility. not if it WILL happen
14:38<+StackOverflow> been hearing that for months
14:38<+StackOverflow> [14:34] <+SallyTheButcher> This is my concern to Stack I would love for everyone to spend more time on what they love and enjoy and less on maintenance and admin
14:38<+StackOverflow> this is relative to the clan section, which is being discussed
14:39<+danhezee> uvs: not easy to implement but forced to implement because we couldnt get the tools to do anything else
14:39<+danhezee> no access to the server
14:39<+SallyTheButcher> uvs: Thanks, all this input is useful to me. So having your own space and tools to manage it would be useful in your opinion
14:40<@uvs> SallyTheButcher: I would manage the same thing, but with "correct tools". The forum setup is not ideal for these type of things.
14:40<+StackOverflow> this is what I'm asking
14:40<+StackOverflow> you claim to acknowledge that the clan system needs adjustments
14:41<@uvs> To answer you question: Yes, I think that they would be very useful.
14:41<+StackOverflow> so how would you go about fixing that?
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14:41<+SallyTheButcher> Anything is a possibility, but as I said you won't have to wait long for more on that (I know we said things are coming, and they are)
14:41* DE gives voice to kmaj
14:42<@DE> SallyTheButcher are you able to give us any timelime at all?
14:42<+Silnius> So when "things" will be here according to you ? Like soon, or in 2 months ?
14:42<@DE> for things to come
14:42<+SallyTheButcher> personally I think you'd need to start afresh with a system that incorprates the ideals of clan leaders and want to be clan leaders.
14:42<+StackOverflow> so wiping the forums
14:43<+SallyTheButcher> Sometimes when you keep to a system and adjust and adjust and adjust it just becomes broken or you out grow it
14:43<+Silnius> [20:48] <@DE> SallyTheButcher are you able to give us any timelime at all? [20:48] <+Silnius> So when "things" will be here according to you ? Like soon, or in 2 months ? [20:48] <@DE> for things to come
14:43<+SallyTheButcher> I am referencing the clan system
14:43<+danhezee> So this new clan system is just a guise to wipe the forums
14:43<+StackOverflow> take a look at jagex's "timelines" and "deadlines" and you'll get a pretty clear image of how good they are at time management :P
14:43* Kiwaka` is now known as Kiwaka`Busy
14:43<+SallyTheButcher> We will be talking more in the coming weeks, all I can say
14:44<@uvs> What is this obsession with wiping the forums?
14:44<+StackOverflow> you said that months ago
14:44<+SallyTheButcher> Thanks Stack that was nice and constructive
14:44<+StackOverflow> well it's true
14:44<+SallyTheButcher> you know I can't give details so why kepp asking
14:44<+StackOverflow> just going off of some jagex documents :D
14:44<+danhezee> Sucks that after 5 years of experience you still arent allowed to say anything
14:44<+Silnius> Why you don't just give a kind of timelime ? We are always waiting for something happens, but nothing happens;
14:44<+SallyTheButcher> Jagex' documents huh
14:44<+danhezee> or make any decisions without being micromanaged
14:45<@DE> SallyTheButcher jagex's 'secrets' are about as well kept as the aos staff's. hint hint
14:45<+Kodisleep> welp
14:45<+StackOverflow> [14:48] <+SallyTheButcher> Sometimes when you keep to a system and adjust and adjust and adjust it just becomes broken or you out grow it
14:45<+Kodisleep> morning
14:45* Kodisleep is now known as Kodiak
14:45<@DE> Kodiak, morning
14:45<+StackOverflow> or maybe you could spend some time learning how the current system works
14:45<+StackOverflow> both from a community perspective and a technical one
14:45<+Kodiak> 5 am \o/
14:45<+StackOverflow> and work from there ;)
14:45<+Kodiak> but I picked a good time to wake up, heya Sally
14:45<+MKU`Off> [12:51:19] <+StackOverflow> both from a community perspective and a technical one
14:45<+MKU`Off> Not possible.
14:45<+danhezee> Hi Kodiak
14:45<+SallyTheButcher> Hello there Kodiak
14:46<+StackOverflow> MKU`Off, sorry, I'm an idealist
14:46<+StackOverflow> realist*
14:46<@uvs> StackOverflow: Do you not think that AoS might be growing out of a forum based clan system?
14:46<+danhezee> a bothist
14:46<@DE> danhezee hehe
14:46<+StackOverflow> I hate the current system
14:46<+StackOverflow> never liked it
14:46<@uvs> lol
14:47<@uvs> I agree, it isn't optimal
14:47<+StackOverflow> but wiping the forums to attempt to solve that issue isn't necessary
14:47<+StackOverflow> all this was discussed yesterdayu
14:48<@uvs> Ofcourse wiping the forums is not a solution, but I don't think anyone has suggested that either.
14:48<+SallyTheButcher> Erm I didn't say anything about the forums
14:48<+StackOverflow> [14:47] <+SallyTheButcher> personally I think you'd need to start afresh with a system that incorprates the ideals of clan leaders and want to be clan leaders.
14:48<+StackOverflow> >start afresh with a system
14:48<+StackOverflow> >system is currently integrated with the forums
14:49<@uvs> The issue is finding a new system to manage clans and matches in an easy way.
14:49<+Kodiak> DE: Did you still have my link, or has that been discussed already
14:49<+StackOverflow> not to mention you guys have mentioned wiping the forums on several occasions
14:49<@uvs> And you do not agree StackOverflow ?
14:49<+Kodiak> also Tin- are you still here
14:49<@DE> Kodiak http://pastebin.com/sBTuN5GN
14:49<@uvs> You just said it your self that you hate the current system?
14:49<+StackOverflow> I agree entirely. but that doesn't mean it can't still be integrated with the forums
14:49<+Kodiak> cheers
14:49<+StackOverflow> while still providing necessary tools for clans
14:49<+StackOverflow> and making moderation easier
14:50<@uvs> I guess that it can, but it would be so much easier to integrate the forums in a new sytem
14:50<@uvs> *system
14:50<@uvs> dont you think?
14:50<+Kodiak> http://pastebin.com/sBTuN5GN have a ready if you feel so inclined SallyTheButcher
14:50<+Kodiak> read* rather
14:51<+Kodiak> oh hang on that's not it
14:51<+StackOverflow> as much as I want to see clans have everything they need, they aren't the only part of the community
14:51<+SallyTheButcher> So do you know how many clans have this sort of thing: http://komrades.org/
14:52<+TheGrandmaster> in terms of scalability, the new proposal + scripts would make it much more scalable
14:52<+StackOverflow> starting the "system" from scratch in an attempt to possibly fix the clan issue isn't ideal
14:52<+TheGrandmaster> SallyTheButcher: about 3?
14:52<@tiki> not many sally
14:52<@DE> SallyTheButcher most do not require it.
14:52<+MKU`Off> Facebook is the only community, don't be foolish, Stack.
14:52<+StackOverflow> TheGrandmaster, new proposal?
14:52<+StackOverflow> from yesterday or today
14:52<+SallyTheButcher> DE: why?
14:52<@DE> SallyTheButcher, well Bastion operates perfectly fine as we are. we have no need for a website. we would gain nothing
14:53<+SallyTheButcher> is it not preferable to having your whole clan operate on the forums
14:53<@DE> mostly the websites are for clans that are no longer jsut aos clans
14:53<+danhezee> RoT has a site
14:53<+StackOverflow> implying they know who rot is
14:53<+Silnius> Well i take a website/forum because lot of people on my clan are not english
14:53<@DE> exactly Bastion all operates on the forums. the kommies/ldr/rot are all inactive to a large extent on aos
14:53<@tiki> also means non clan members can participate in discussion without having to make accounts on each clans website
14:53<+danhezee> RoT is the most sincere clan ever
14:53<@EldredChandler> ^
14:53<@EldredChandler> They so sweet
14:53<+Kodiak> Found it, SallyTheButcher DE danhezee StackOverflow http://pastebin.com/W6GwmURr
14:54<+Kodiak> also TheGrandmaster*
14:54<+Silnius> tiki : there is irc for talk :P
14:54<+MKU`Off> [12:59:22] <@DE> exactly Bastion all operates on the forums. the kommies/ldr/rot are all inactive to a large extent on aos
14:54<+Silnius> But yo'ure right
14:54<+MKU`Off> the kommies/ldr/rot
14:54<@DE> oh yeh, forgot to pas that on for you. sorry  Kodiak :s
14:54<+MKU`Off> kommies
14:54<+TheGrandmaster> sounds like clanbase
14:54<@DE> MKU`Off, YEH.
14:54<+Kodiak> no problem
14:54<+Kodiak> pretty much TheGrandmaster
14:54<@DE> 80 members, less then 1/5 active
14:54<@DE> 70*
14:54<+MKU`Off> Define an "active" clan.
14:54<@DE> MKU`Off, participate on forums/irc/in game
14:55* Carnage|AFK ([email protected]) has joined #TheBastion
14:55* Q gives voice to Carnage|AFK
14:55<+StackOverflow> you can't measure participation like that
14:55<@^Steam^> ohhh boy, here we go again
14:55<+StackOverflow> it's stupid
14:55<+StackOverflow> ingame can't be measured
14:55<+StackOverflow> irc isn't accurate
14:55<+StackOverflow> neither is forums
14:55<@DE> I don't see kommies doing much of anytihng in aos
14:55* Carnage|AFK is now known as Carnage`
14:55<@DE> hence i say they are not very aos active
14:56<+MKU`Off> Considering that only SPQR and Bastion are the only clans that fully do that.
14:56<+danhezee> I think clan sponsored events would be a good indicator
14:56<+MKU`Off> Ok guys, remove all clan section besides SPQR and Bastion.
14:56<@EldredChandler> lol
14:56<+SallyTheButcher> Kodiak: ooo nice I will have a good read
14:56<@DE> MKU`Off actually there are about another 4-5 susbections that will probs be removed due to ianctivity
14:57<@DE> inactivity*
14:57<+danhezee> I think komrades are like most of the community stagnant because of jagex and their inability to give anyone any idea of what the future of AoS is.
14:57<+Silnius> Like StackOverflow said, " you can't measure participation like that"
14:57<@DE> Silnius StackOverflow, okay. ill redact that statement, after condieration.
14:58<+MKU`Off> DE just wants clan standards to revolve around his own clan.
14:58<+StackOverflow> it's not something you decided on
14:58<@DE> SallyTheButcher, If we could host a  decent website, then im sure Bastion would make one. we havnt really looked into it yet
14:58<+StackOverflow> the fact that it's part of the application process is just stupid
14:58<+Kodiak> MKU`Off and I have hung around in #Komrade a lot danhezee
14:58<@EldredChandler> same lately
14:58<+Kodiak> they're active, just not so AoS oriented anymore
14:58<@DE> MKU`Off, your not being constructive now, just attakcing me. quit it
14:58<+SallyTheButcher> So are all clans into the competition of clans or are there currently specialist clans/groups such as modders or creative types
14:59<+danhezee> Well in the interest of this conversation they arent that active
14:59<+Kodiak> yes
14:59<+MKU`Off> Is this not a debate?
14:59<+MKU`Off> From what I see, it is.
14:59<+kmaj> there are social clans
14:59* AoShacker ([email protected]) has joined #TheBastion
14:59<+danhezee> Not trying to insult the clan
14:59<@DE> MKU`Off, this is a jagex related clan disscusion. not a rag on DE disscusion
14:59<+Kodiak> SallyTheButcher: Media groups, you mean?
14:59<+SallyTheButcher> kmaj: cheers
14:59* DE has kicked AoShacker from #TheBastion (AoShacker)
14:59<+MKU`Off> >dicussion
14:59* AoShacker ([email protected]) has joined #TheBastion
14:59<+MKU`Off> discussion*
14:59* DE sets ban on *!*@59.sub-174-252-150.myvzw.com
14:59* Q has kicked AoShacker from #TheBastion (Banned.)
14:59<@DE> MKU`Off, get back on topic or devoice.
14:59<+Carnage`> Sup SallyTheButcher
15:00<+SallyTheButcher> Clans that aren't focused around competition / being the no. 1 clan etc
15:00<+SallyTheButcher> hey Carnage`
15:00<+danhezee> That would be every clan right now
15:00<+StackOverflow> most clans aren't necessarily competitive really. at least not like in a lot of other communitities
15:00<+StackOverflow> it's usually a group of friends
15:00<@DE> there are no real competitive based clans atm
15:00<+TheGrandmaster> there used to be
15:00<+danhezee> they hang out and play together
15:00<+SallyTheButcher> But is competition something that most would aspire to if there was enough support and activity
15:00<@DE> SallyTheButcher yes.
15:00<+MKU`Off> No.
15:01<+StackOverflow> it depends on the individual clans
15:01* SneakyMobile has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
15:01* SneakyBastard ([email protected]) has joined #TheBastion
15:01<+danhezee> I think not must clans would rather have no record than a chance to have a loosing record
15:01<+StackOverflow> some want competition. most, like I said, are just groups of friends who play together
15:01<@DE> if the support was there, i think we would see more competitive based clans
15:01* DE gives voice to SneakyBastard
15:01<@tiki> yeah its not like theres a friends system in the game >.<
15:02* StackOverflow still has a friend system that he never launched because I thought opengl was going to be out forever ago
15:02<+danhezee> Don't tiki, SallyTheButcher will fix that
15:02<+SallyTheButcher> OK so most are groups of friends, yet they need a certain level of activity to be recognised
15:02<@tiki> with a facebook login danhezee thats what we really need
15:02<+danhezee> Don't worry*
15:02<+Kodiak> as far as competetion goes all we really have is this http://aos.mp2.dk
15:02<+StackOverflow> yes. lets just shift everything to facebook
15:02<+StackOverflow> and instagram
15:02<+MKU`Off> For reference, I would like to point out wrong statements but in doing so, DE will mute me because that's how this "discussion" works.
15:02<+Kodiak> it's a wobbly system and it's the individual rather than a clan system
15:02<@DE> MKU`Off, ignore me. talk to sally.
15:03<@DE> or jsut leave.
15:03<@DE> just* :P
15:03<+SallyTheButcher> Aye Kodiak I have seen the server rankings
15:03<+StackOverflow> leaderboards are stupid
15:03* StackOverflow hates everything
15:03<+danhezee> I want to press f5 and automatically upload to instagram with a cool filter
15:03<+Tin-> ^
15:03<+StackOverflow> it's a huge security threat
15:03<+Kodiak> but I suppose if a leader feels so inclined to make his/her members use that then it works, but only to a degree
15:03<+MKU`Off> DE, that would implying that Sally listens to anything anyone actually says.
15:03<+StackOverflow> social engineering
15:03<+Kodiak> it's okay we hate you too StackOverflow
15:03<+StackOverflow> how does it work
15:03<+Tin-> lol
15:04<+SallyTheButcher> MKU, believe it or not I do listen
15:04<+Tin-> Anyways, enjoy this discussion. I am leaving. Cya.
15:04* tiki ([email protected]) has left #TheBastion
15:04<@DE> Tin- bai
15:04<+Kodiak> bai
15:04<+danhezee> bye Tin-
15:04<+SallyTheButcher> I have been feeding back since I started
15:04<+SallyTheButcher> cya Tin
15:05<+Tin-> Sally, I will PM you tomorrow with some ideas tomorrow o/
15:05<+MKU`Off> [13:10:03] <+SallyTheButcher> MKU, believe it or not I do listen
15:05<+SallyTheButcher> Cheers Tin- appreciate it
15:05<+MKU`Off> Care to expound on what important questions stack has been asking?
15:05* Tin- has quit (Signed off)
15:05<+StackOverflow> no MKU`Off, I don't want to make you hopeful :(
15:06<+MKU`Off> Oh yeah..
15:06<@uvs> I didn't relly think about it like that but I think you have a point there, danhezee (regarding a lot of clans rather having no record than a losing one)
15:06<+danhezee> Sorry for stack and dan making you hopeful
15:06<+MKU`Off> SallyTheButcher: Disregard that last thing I said, because having hope is a sin.
15:06<+StackOverflow> I'm a bit biased, I don't really get into the "competitive" side of aos (implying there is one)
15:06<+StackOverflow> I just like playing with friends
15:07<+SallyTheButcher> So maybe we think about a system that works to take that into account uvs ?
15:07<+SallyTheButcher> or offer a range of ways of ranking
15:07<+danhezee> somehow we need to have an ice breaker event for clan records,  let them no it is no big deal to have a losing record
15:07<+StackOverflow> even if it's not an "official" record, people will still keep track
15:07<+TheGrandmaster> SallyTheButcher: I believe a variation of our current system, but with more automated elements would work
15:07<+SallyTheButcher> Not every clan will be top but can still enjoy an improvement together as a group
15:08<+danhezee> what range do you have in mind SallyTheButcher
15:08<+StackOverflow> TheGrandmaster, no. you speak of witchcraft
15:08<+TheGrandmaster> perhaps current isn't the right word
15:08<+MKU`Off> As I said in that pointless thread you posted on the forums: if you are going to answer questions in the future, quit pretending that you are going to answer them now.
15:08<@uvs> I'm all for a competative community, but as it is today, most clans aren't - so that might not be bad thinking, SallyTheButcher
15:08<+TheGrandmaster> we're debating improvements right now
15:09<+SallyTheButcher> TheGrandmaster: it's possible I am not saying it's not, but is that the best system that could be offered going forwards
15:09<+MKU`Off> tGM, DE will mute you if you debate.
15:09<+Kodiak> Ya I like most of TheGrandmaster's ideas, what I based my own around albeit with minor fiddles
15:09<+TheGrandmaster> ": it's possible I am not saying it's not, " mind translating? :p
15:09<+Kodiak> forum system is cool
15:09<+StackOverflow> going to make some eggs. seems more productive right now
15:09<+danhezee> I miss Frosty and his agenda
15:09<@EldredChandler> lol
15:09<@EldredChandler> We all do
15:10<+SallyTheButcher> MKU`Off: not sure how I am 'pretending' to answer them? I thought I had been quite clear that I am not in a position to answer many of the questions being asked right now?
15:10* USABxBOOYO ([email protected]) has joined #TheBastion
15:10<@^Steam^> heeerreee boy! heeeree! GOOD BOY! :DDDD
15:10* DE gives voice to gen_applejack
15:10* DE gives voice to USABxBOOYO
15:10<+USABxBOOYO> Welp
15:10<@uvs> MKU`Off: Its not a debate as much as it is a discussion.
15:10<+USABxBOOYO> I see I still have a greeting
15:11<+MKU`Off> But it's wrong to have an opinion, uvs.
15:11<+SallyTheButcher> TheGrandmaster: Well if you do whatever we discussed scripts et or whatever to automate a lot then you could keep on top of it, but would it provide the best overall system? I am not convinced
15:11<@uvs> correct. wait, what?
15:11<@uvs> :P
15:11<+danhezee> how are you not convinced SallyTheButcher
15:12<+danhezee> elaborate
15:12* PABH_Away is now known as PABH
15:12<+USABxBOOYO> !logs
15:12<@DE> USABxBOOYO yeh you havn;t been in so long i didnt bother removing it
15:12<+MKU`Off> SallyTheButcher: If you read closely, which might be hard, I said "quit pretending that you are GOING to answer them now"
15:12<+USABxBOOYO> Oh wait, can't see the logs anyway
15:13<@EldredChandler> lol, there will be full ones up later USABxBOOYO
15:13<+SallyTheButcher> danhezee: I don't thinkit has mass appeal, I think it's great right now.
15:13<@DE> USABxBOOYO ill post logs later
15:13<@uvs> USABxBOOYO : This is a start: http://pastebin.com/sBTuN5GN
15:13<+danhezee> USABxBOOYO: sally said vague things with no details
15:13<+SallyTheButcher> MKU`Off: still don't know how I am doing this but hey
15:14<+USABxBOOYO> danhezee: I'm not even sure why I asked for logs now that I realize who this was a meeting with
15:14<+PABH> Is this pastebin worth a look, uvs?
15:14<+MKU`Off> [13:10:03] <+SallyTheButcher> MKU, believe it or not I do listen
15:14<+MKU`Off> [13:11:23] <+MKU`Off> Care to expound on what important questions stack has been asking?
15:14<+Kodiak> realise*
15:14<+Kodiak> gosh
15:14<+USABxBOOYO> SallyTheButcher: Off-topic but the 0.75 download link on the main page looks no bueno
15:15<@uvs> it is just a log over the first 30min of this discussion, PABH
15:15<@uvs> and: not really :P
15:15<+PABH> Is THIS discussion worth it, then?
15:15<+PABH> Hm. ok
15:15<@uvs> :)
15:15<@uvs> Im sure some forum threads will spawn with interpreted summaries later this evening
15:16<+SallyTheButcher> guys my ride is here, I am already late so I better dash if any of you have any ideas etc drop me a PM
15:16<@EldredChandler> bysies
15:16<+SallyTheButcher> Thanks I got some good stuff from this :)
15:16<@EldredChandler> :)
15:16<@DE> bye o7
15:16<+Kodiak> PABH USABxBOOYO thoughts and opinions appreciated http://pastebin.com/W6GwmURr
15:16<@uvs> Thanks for the chat SallyTheButcher.
15:16<+Kodiak> cya :)
15:16<+SneakyBastard> cya
15:16<+PABH> o/ Sally.
15:17<+USABxBOOYO> GRD and CH were before the Clan Council was formed
15:17<@uvs> This is not the most structured way to do this and Im not sure what was expected, but it was nice :)
15:17* Frosty has quit (Ping timeout)
15:17<+SallyTheButcher> a pleasure uvs  thank you, byeee
15:17* SneakyBastard ([email protected]) has left #TheBastion
15:17<+kmaj> SallyTheButcher:  suck my huge penis before you leave, please
15:18* kmaj has quit (Signed off)
15:18* SallyTheButcher has quit (Signed off)