Moirean_banned

    #58    Osmond

    Posted Today, 05:10 AM
    Y'know ive been hanging out at NoT lately hoping for some more diverse RP and I have had two things happen, the only notable one was Moi challenging me to a duel which of course i denied, no reason to die for fun, but instead of sticking around to see what happened my first thought after seeing Kog and a few others was "gank squad, run!" so i like what you were saying up there Moi.

    #59    Keshena

    Posted Today, 05:13 AM
    Here's a thought, not to double-post: I understand the detriment, RP-quality-wise, that the Shooting Star Inn (or the Crystal Leaf Inn - remember those days, guys?) was supposed to have represented, but I do believe that having NO faction-neutral gathering place really reinforces the kind of incredibly segregated problems we have now, where people will get deeply, irreparably on your case just for being in the same room as someone else for a period of time. This doesn't serve anyone - it doesn't make the world more interesting, it doesn't bolster your side's roleplay, it's just a kneejerk response from people too unimaginative to think up a better way to convey their faction's respective zealotry.

    We need more neutral places to gather and hang out, to start fights, to spark conflict, to trash-talk back and forth in an IC way. Someone set up a bar off of NoT or something, sell drinks and shove the rowdy out into the road to have their fights.

    #60    zoticus

    Posted Today, 05:16 AM
    I don't tend to discourage cross faction role play, personally. I'm more than fine with rivalries, tiffs, my opinions versus your opinions, etc. Friendships, however, and casual interaction of a certain nature, wouldn't ever be okay with Daingean. That said, neither I nor he would ever out and out ignore a person instantly, and I've made allowances for the sake of my enjoyment of the game that wouldn't technically be okay if I were to hard line it - I'd like to say most people would. I've specifically built Daingean in this aspect so that he needs to maintain some level of respect for his foe - that means he's more than capable of holding a civil conversation with them.

    That said, I refuse to speak for Enorian in this, primarily because I feel the city needs to be zealous and more aggressive, not the other way around. This in mind, I'd really be perfectly fine with making association laws very pointed and specific. Sitting in a bar, or attending an event, with enemies of a city/guild should not cause flames and hatred from allies. Joining a clan with them or going hunting should. If you assume that by associating with enemies, you've instantly lost an ally, then you're sort of stupid. Dain can spend a month in a tavern with Desian and still come out hoping he loses The Big Fight. That said, I could understand why a city might get slightly worried if I were spending every other weekend at his beach house.

    'Don't hang out with X. Ever.' isn't really healthy, and everyone'll just move in with uncle Duiran where the cool kids are sitting with their 'pssh, laws.' attitude.


    Moirean

    Posted Today, 05:17 AM
     Osmond, on 23 April 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:
    Y'know ive been hanging out at NoT lately hoping for some more diverse RP and I have had two things happen, the only notable one was Moi challenging me to a duel which of course i denied, no reason to die for fun, but instead of sticking around to see what happened my first thought after seeing Kog and a few others was "gank squad, run!" so i like what you were saying up there Moi.

    Umm. I am confused what you are saying here. I challenged you to 1v1 PK. You "of course" denied - why? Not only did I offer a PK opportunity, I gave you a RP door opened. You are openly admitting to not only turning down the interaction option, you did it in as biased and as cloistered as mindset as you possibly could. FYI, if my friends join in my PK, they get insanely bitched out - ask Kog. Why would you "OF COURSE" deny interaction? If you emote at me, I emote back. I'm not a freaking monster and - surprise - I like to create writing as much as any lifer.

    #62    Serrice

    Posted Today, 05:19 AM
    He probably felt he didn't have a snowball's chances in hell of beating you and assumed that you knew it and that you were picking on him (possibly).

    #63    Moirean

    Posted Today, 05:21 AM
    Because PK is the only interaction option available in Aet.

    Do you guys seriously [word]ing think that is what darkies are built of? That every interaction with us is just PK PK PK?

    #64    Lin

    Posted Today, 05:27 AM
     Moirean, on 23 April 2012 - 05:21 AM, said:
    Because PK is the only interaction option available in Aet.

    Do you guys seriously [word]ing think that is what darkies are built of? That every interaction with us is just PK PK PK?


    Well our current crop of darkies don't really help your case, but no, I think it's absolutely possible to engage in meaningful roleplay with "the other side". You're no exception!


    #65    Moirean

    Posted Today, 05:34 AM
    Do I really need to reply here? Osmod stated it: Moi said something to me. I discounted her interaction. Other darkies were there. I completely wrote off the encounter.

    You guys wonder why there isn't cross-faction RP, this is your answer right here; the Sentaari GM thinks he's putting forth some awesome RP about ignoring darkies. In reality....he is happily ignoring people who have readily signed on to RP with him, and patting himself on the back for doing so.

    Don't state that the fault lies with darkies becoming unimaginative or stopping trying. Dark side RP isn't dead just because you guys decide to be dicks and ignore us.

    #66    zoticus

    Posted Today, 05:34 AM
     Moirean, on 23 April 2012 - 05:21 AM, said:
    Because PK is the only interaction option available in Aet.

    Do you guys seriously [word]ing think that is what darkies are built of? That every interaction with us is just PK PK PK?


    Not everyone, not all the time.

    But a high number of high profile dark-side players will, and do, take the small excuses to jump onto a squishy head. It's a miasma that isn't entirely free of blame.

    Aside from mistells and a foci death to Moirean and a warning to gfto the war zone from her as well, the only interaction I've had with a member of the Shadow side - at least since Klonk quit playing again - was a rather polite Carnifex novice asking for Dain's and Enorian's opinion on the guild. I admit, Dain isn't a social creature, he's only attended one potlatch and isn't exactly prone to idling at North of Trees, but he's not a complete hermit.

    #67    Drass

    Posted Today, 05:35 AM
    As much as this sounds silly, I believe game balancing has destroyed a lot of the threat. If Vampires were that much stronger than the other classes then it would likely be the case that the oppressive feeling would return. They were the games main villain at one point and for good reason.

    #68    Keshena

    Posted Today, 05:39 AM
     Moirean, on 23 April 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:
    Do I really need to reply here? Osmod stated it: Moi said something to me. I discounted her interaction. Other darkies were there. I completely wrote off the encounter.

    You guys wonder why there isn't cross-faction RP, this is your answer right here; the Sentaari GM thinks he's putting forth some awesome RP about ignoring darkies. In reality....he is happily ignoring people who have readily signed on to RP with him, and patting himself on the back for doing so.

    Don't state that the fault lies with darkies becoming unimaginative or stopping trying. Dark side RP isn't dead just because you guys decide to be dicks and ignore us.


    It being so soon after his city lost a war to yours, I don't think it's bad RP in the slightest for him to avoid congregations of your faction. You may be running into something that people who do little else but RP deal with every day: the difficulty of sparking interaction with someone. Perhaps attempt a less potentially fraught situation or location - NoT isn't known for its in-depth RP so much as its convenient dueling environs. Perhaps try sending a tell or two, to make it clear that your intention is to RP rather than to start trouble or incite a reason for PK.

    No, it's NOT fair that you should have to go to that rigamarole just to RP with someone outside your faction. However, you are dealing with the perceptions that others of your faction have created in the opposing one, and if you want to RP, the productive thing to do is not to excoriate the opposing side for being cautious, but attempt to do what you can to bridge the gap in a constructive way. No one is being "dicks" here - everyone is just working under the conditions that are currently active. As the aggressive side, you will have to make the first move, you will have to do the bulk of the work to convey your intentions - that is one of the downsides of winning a war.


    #69    Nola

    Posted Today, 05:40 AM
    They were never really big and bad to begin with outside of the player's imagination, and many people not knowing how to hardcode for pk like they do nowadays with systems and crackers and shinies. Walking out into the wilderness as a newbling scared me, I was afraid of running into aggro wolves or something. Now its like, pshaaww.

    #70    Moirean

    Posted Today, 05:41 AM
     zoticus, on 23 April 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:
    Aside from...a foci death to Moirean and a warning to gfto the war zone from her...

    Oh wait, what? I actually told you bat guana outside of the current combat? I told you to avoid to a PK situation? I gave you a verbal warning instead of just killing your face?

    Yeah, them darkies be PK whores.

    #71    Nola

    Posted Today, 05:42 AM
    I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive over it. He was referring to his interactions with darkie members, not saying that you would just PK him in a heartbeat.

    #72    Lin

    Posted Today, 05:45 AM
    Moirean, we're having a pretty rational discussion over this whole thing and you're choosing to see Osmond's statements as personal attacks. I don't think anything he's said actually pertains to you as a player.
     Keshena, on 23 April 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:
    No, it's NOT fair that you should have to go to that rigamarole just to RP with someone outside your faction. However, you are dealing with the perceptions that others of your faction have created in the opposing one, and if you want to RP, the productive thing to do is not to excoriate the opposing side for being cautious, but attempt to do what you can to bridge the gap in a constructive way. No one is being "dicks" here - everyone is just working under the conditions that are currently active. As the aggressive side, you will have to make the first move, you will have to do the bulk of the work to convey your intentions - that is one of the downsides of winning a war.


    I think this is completely true. You might notice that when Duiran won two back-to-back wars, we were so aggressive and gregarious with the other side it was unreal. We were on the verge of an alliance with Spinesreach. Now that the ball's in the other court, the onus is on Shadow characters, in most situations, to approach any interaction with "hey, we come in peace", if that's truly what you're interested in.


    #73    Moirean

    Posted Today, 05:47 AM
    He is saying my name and referring to specific incidents, with my name explicitly mentioned. How is that not personal?

    #74    Keshena

    Posted Today, 05:50 AM
    You need to slow down and re-read some of the posts that have been made with a clear head. This is the sort of reactionary attitude that ends with your character getting thrown out of orgs. I say this as gently as possible: take a breath, re-read, and try to really hear what's being said instead of getting defensive.

    #75    Nola

    Posted Today, 05:52 AM
    But you're nitpicking choice sections, and not reviewing the whole statement, and then taking it out of context or exaggerating it.

    We're just trying to calmly discuss something. I don't see how anything anyone has said so far has been meant as a personal slight.

    #76    Moirean

    Posted Today, 05:55 AM
    Because when we run out of valid points, we can always cite Moi being tossed from an org to fill the space.

    #77    Keshena

    Posted Today, 05:55 AM
    See, that... that's the exact opposite of what I said.


    #78    Moirean

    Posted Today, 05:57 AM
    Yeah, I'm sure you care - that's why you went out of your way to bring up me being booted from orgs. Bitch. Unf off. Maybe try unfing contributing something to this game, rather than constantly sitting in as a bitching, whining observer. Make a guild great, make a city strong, be something more than just a bitching harridan.

    #79    Lin

    Posted Today, 06:01 AM


    Well, it was a good thread while it lasted.
    Quote
    Yeah, I'm sure you care - that's why you went out of your way to bring up me being booted from orgs. *****. Unf off. Maybe try unfing contributing something to this game, rather than constantly sitting in as a *****ing, whining observer. Make a guild great, make a city strong, be something more than just a *****ing harridan.


    Edit: Also, Keshena was quoted by many of the Syssin's members as "one of the best Champions they have ever seen," so maybe you're thinking of someone else?


    #80    Hadoryu

    Posted Today, 06:02 AM
    I dunno, I don't think I made other-siders reluctant to interact with me. On the other hand, people who are known for having a hair-trigger, or people who are known to have no qualms about stomping a less-than-complete fighter into the ground for kicks, like Desian, will tend to provoke exactly this sort of evasion. Being in the position of knowing that the person you're interacting with can (and actually is decently likely to) just kills you puts you under a lot of stress and tends to make any sort of prolongued interaction fairly uncomfortable, OOCly so.

    Maybe I misread Osmond, but he said he turned down a duel (which everybody knew would be closer to an execution), not RP, and then hightailed when (after turning down voluntary PK) more people-he-thought-might-be-aggressive made the scene. Not sure there's anything wrong with that, honestly.

    EDIT:
    Quote
    Yeah, I'm sure you care - that's why you went out of your way to bring up me being booted from orgs. Bitch. Unf off. Maybe try unfing contributing something to this game, rather than constantly sitting in as a bitching, whining observer. Make a guild great, make a city strong, be something more than just a bitching harridan.


    Heh, this sort of utterly unnecessary, offensive comment out of the blue is a pretty blatant tell-tale sign.

    To whomever mod is going to intervene at this point, please remember that this THREAD is a very nice, cool thread.


    #81     Benedicto

    Posted Today, 06:09 AM
    ^

    It's about treading that line between "You're not allowed to speak to an enemy ever!" And "Ololol let's all have a picnic and play twister."

    Giving players the option to create RP that still adheres to the beliefs of their character but at the same time accepting that getting too friendly is going to produce repercussions. After all, if you want to be friendly with the opposite side then maybe you're in the wrong guild/city.

    Also Delos is still neutral and has a couple of pubs. Why do people not use them? Why does it have to be near NoT?

    #82    Keshena

    Posted Today, 06:12 AM
    That's true, there are a few good pubs there. A few folks DO use them - I suppose it's a matter of determining what attracts the playerbase in order to make such a faction-neutral location really effective in bringing the two sides together. I'm not sure why exactly the SSI was so successful - I guess it's that snowball effect. People hang out there, so other people hang out there, so people are always hanging out there which attracts more people to hang out there. But how does one START this cycle, is the retailer's perennial question.

    Me, I like the one with the chess garden. Gotten in a few good fights there, and had some interesting cross-faction interaction that went more or less unremarked. Though that may have more to do with, again, Duiran's "fend for yourself" attitude, which I heartily endorse.

    #83    Lin

    Posted Today, 06:12 AM
    Delos is a very good location, though I think for there to be more RP there, we'd need more infrastructure than just a simple bar, which when you think about it, is the only civic structure that exists there, aside from the Arena. It would be super cool to see Delos get a few streets, maybe a park with a view of the ocean, and perhaps a few rooms to transition between seaside island city and... elven Christmas village.


    #84    Moirean

    Posted Today, 06:13 AM
    @ keshena being "amazing": You wanna bring this bat guana to the table? How did guild credit purchases do? How did guild numbers do? Because you guys are freaking tearing into me....but Carnis are up over 100 from PURCHASE benefits. We've been in topguild's top 3 every day for over a RL week. But, you know, Moi is such trouble. No, she doesn't go out and revamp duiran/sents herself w/ relandroc (for which sibatti happily claims all the fuckiing credit) and she surely doesn't go and pull the exact same thing in carnis, proving that, sup, she totally initially pulled that first in sents and here's a real time example with it happening again.

    #85    Lin

    Posted Today, 06:14 AM
     Moirean, on 23 April 2012 - 06:13 AM, said:
    @ keshena being "amazing": You wanna bring this bat guana to the table? How did guild credit purchases do? How did guild numbers do? Because you guys are freaking tearing into me....but Carnis are up over 100 from PURCHASE benefits. We've been in topguild's top 3 every day for over a RL week. But, you know, Moi is such trouble. No, she doesn't go out and revamp duiran/sents (for which sibatti happily claims all the bleeping credit) and she surely doesn't go and pull the exact same thing in carnis, proving that, sup, she totally initially pulled that first in sents and here's a real time example with it happening again.


    You're drunk. Get off the forums.


    #86    Carcass

    Posted Today, 06:16 AM
     Keshena, on 23 April 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:
    Here's a thought, not to double-post: I understand the detriment, RP-quality-wise, that the Shooting Star Inn (or the Crystal Leaf Inn - remember those days, guys?) was supposed to have represented, but I do believe that having NO faction-neutral gathering place really reinforces the kind of incredibly segregated problems we have now, where people will get deeply, irreparably on your case just for being in the same room as someone else for a period of time. This doesn't serve anyone - it doesn't make the world more interesting, it doesn't bolster your side's roleplay, it's just a kneejerk response from people too unimaginative to think up a better way to convey their faction's respective zealotry.

    We need more neutral places to gather and hang out, to start fights, to spark conflict, to trash-talk back and forth in an IC way. Someone set up a bar off of NoT or something, sell drinks and shove the rowdy out into the road to have their fights.


    That actually happened but not many people took the bite as far as I can tell. Kerryn and Haydyn have the Black Flagon Inn conveniently located in Delos. They even made an ICly public post about it. We have neutral grounds but honestly I think people don't venture there because they don't feel safe to engage anything there like they can inside say.... their own city.