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  1. [13:02:00] @zeefable: okay welcome everyone
  2. [13:02:21] @zeefable: so here's how this is gonna go: I'll be taking suggestions for cores or team ideas in my PMs
  3. [13:02:30] @zeefable: we'll then make a poll where people can vote for their favorites
  4. [13:02:49] #Yellow Paint: pm me, zeefable, or yuki if you have a question or suggestion you want to say to chat later on as well
  5. [13:02:50] @zeefable: and then our builders (myself, yuki, Yellow Paint, with some help from Helios of Sun and thewalraingoats) will work on the team
  6. [13:03:28] @yuki ♪: I'm voting for Regirock+Entei. :)
  7. [13:03:37] @zeefable: my pms will be open for a few more minutes and then we'll put up the poll
  8. [13:04:05] #Yellow Paint: haha regi squads always fun
  9. [13:05:18] @zeefable: alright at this time my pms are now closed
  10. [13:05:21] @zeefable: let's get this poll going
  11. [13:05:25] #AM: my pms are open but responses will be delayed as I am multi-tasking some things outside of workshop
  12. [13:05:42] #AM: anyways gl guys
  13. [13:05:50] #Yellow Paint: oh right I never declared anything
  14. [13:05:54] @yuki ♪: smh
  15. [13:06:18] A poll was started by zeefable.
  16. [13:06:35] +cromagnet ❤: what tier
  17. [13:06:38] @zeefable: voting will be up for a few minutes, i will brb quickly
  18. [13:06:39] @yuki ♪: This is VGC
  19. [13:06:46] +cromagnet ❤: ewww doubles
  20. [13:06:51] @yuki ♪: ikr
  21. [13:06:52] +cromagnet ❤: I see why AM isn't touching this
  22. [13:07:07] @t04ster: messi
  23. [13:07:08] %Ika Ika Musume: OwO
  24. [13:07:10] #AM: I am clueless about doubles formats
  25. [13:07:18] #AM: so its good for me too
  26. [13:07:19] #AM: lol
  27. [13:08:06] @zeefable: I'll end the poll in 1 minute
  28. [13:09:25] @yuki ♪: I am so glad we aren't building Sun or Gigas+Weezing
  29. [13:09:25] @zeefable: alright, looks like we're building around garchomp and celesteela (this was my submission lol)
  30. [13:09:38] #AM: lol
  31. [13:09:57] @zeefable: the main premise of the core is that you have two strong dynamax pokemon, one physical and one special, with really solid offensive coverage between the two of them
  32. [13:10:29] @zeefable: they're also both pretty bulky pokemon naturally, so you can invest offensively and still have them stick around
  33. [13:10:47] @yuki ♪: They're also really good at covering each other's weaknesses; Celesteela covers Fairy- and Ice-types (read Glastrier), and Garchomp covers Fire- and Electric-types rather well
  34. [13:11:22] @zeefable: !code
  35. Celesteela @ Safety Goggles
  36. Ability: Beast Boost
  37. Level: 50
  38. EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
  39. Modest Nature
  40. IVs: 0 Atk
  41. - Air Slash
  42. - Flash Cannon
  43. - Meteor Beam
  44. - Protect
  45.  
  46. Garchomp @ Life Orb
  47. Ability: Rough Skin
  48. Level: 50
  49. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  50. Jolly Nature
  51. - Earthquake
  52. - Rock Slide
  53. - Swords Dance
  54. - Protect
  55. [13:11:29] @zeefable: these are the sets im proposing
  56. [13:11:33] @zeefable: but am open to suggestions
  57. [13:11:36] #Yellow Paint: there are still openings though like rotom w and other steels
  58. [13:11:44] @yuki ♪: I have basically the same thing in my builder
  59. [13:11:49] @yuki ♪: except I have Life Orb Celes and Lum Chomp
  60. [13:12:19] @zeefable: i like goggles cele because its both good into venusuar and amoonguss + glastrier + incin comps
  61. [13:12:28] @yuki ♪: Also I think 228 Celes prefers Timid
  62. [13:12:33] @zeefable: oh right my b
  63. [13:12:39] @yuki ♪: to outrun Thundurus at +1 Speed
  64. [13:13:30] thewalraingoats!!!: i think that if we run the sets that we have rn, tapu koko would fit nicely
  65. [13:13:48] @zeefable: yeah I think koko is a really cool pokemon right now
  66. [13:13:57] @zeefable: would you mind explaining what it does compared to something like regieleki?
  67. [13:14:22] thewalraingoats!!!: basically the thing that koko has going for it is electric terrain
  68. [13:15:01] @zeefable: fairy typing is also nice, it's able to answer the urshifu forms really nicely
  69. [13:15:15] thewalraingoats!!!: sun REALLY likes to sleep things
  70. [13:15:21] thewalraingoats!!!: and koko just stands in the way of that
  71. [13:15:22] @zeefable: in general you want an electric with a core like this
  72. [13:15:30] @zeefable: because damaging waters can be really difficult otherwise
  73. [13:15:40] Helios of Sun: In that case, we could also consider going back to the thought of Life Orb Steela
  74. [13:15:55] Helios of Sun: Since we have Electric Terrain that can help prevent Sleep
  75. [13:15:56] @yuki ♪: Fairy/Electric gives it a really ideal Fairy/Dragon/Steel core which is so popular in singles too - generally the same sort of defensive backbones exist via typing
  76. [13:16:02] @zeefable: well steela isn't benefitted by terrain
  77. [13:16:04] @zeefable: its a flyer
  78. [13:16:04] #Yellow Paint: cancelling grassy is also cute for letting chomp eq
  79. [13:16:04] @yuki ♪: Nah, Celesteela still needs Goggles in that case
  80. [13:16:15] Helios of Sun: My bad there
  81. [13:16:16] @yuki ♪: I would suggest Stomping Tantrum Garchomp anyway
  82. [13:16:23] @yuki ♪: So you don't nuke your Tapu Koko
  83. [13:16:23] %Katy: If there are any questions regarding the thought process or a Pokemon or any suggestions, shot them out and they will get answered :)
  84. [13:16:30] @yuki ♪: Same BP as Max Quake as well
  85. [13:16:41] #Yellow Paint: ah true
  86. [13:17:02] Helios of Sun: In testing, I have always liked running Grimmsnarl with Celesteela, because it provides a lot of utility that Celesteela can make use of
  87. [13:17:06] #Yellow Paint: what kind of koko then?
  88. [13:17:15] @zeefable: !code
  89. Tapu Koko @ Magnet
  90. Ability: Electric Surge
  91. Level: 50
  92. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  93. Timid Nature
  94. IVs: 0 Atk
  95. - Thunderbolt
  96. - Dazzling Gleam
  97. - Electroweb
  98. - Protect
  99. [13:17:18] #Yellow Paint: oh or grimm
  100. [13:17:37] @yuki ♪: I think Grimmsnarl is an option as well to bring in, but Koko mostly provides good speed control with the fairy typing
  101. [13:17:37] @zeefable: really like this set a lot, electroweb is nice speed control which steela appreciates
  102. [13:18:18] @zeefable: i'd like to avoid grimm if possible btw, there's a common team that uses those three pkmn and I feel like we'd just end up recreating it if we went that route
  103. [13:18:20] @yuki ♪: A lead like Tapu Koko + Celesteela just beats Thundurus and co
  104. [13:18:33] Helios of Sun: Alright
  105. [13:18:54] @zeefable: so any issues with these 3? any questions from anyone watching?
  106. [13:19:48] @zeefable: i was asked why im not using rotom-h on this team
  107. [13:20:29] @zeefable: the main reason is that celesteela really appreciates active speed control like electroweb, but also I generally want a fairy type that can check urshifu as balances tend to have a problem with it
  108. [13:20:31] @yuki ♪: Rotom-H is nice, but generally Tapu Koko and Regieleki are going to provide extra speed control which is never amiss with it
  109. [13:20:41] %Katy: Chikster: i wanted to ask, why is protect so useful in doubles?
  110. [13:20:56] @yuki ♪: So any time you can make your opponent essentially do nothing is a loss of momentum for them
  111. [13:21:04] @yuki ♪: If they're hitting into the protect
  112. [13:21:14] @yuki ♪: you're both preserving your Pokemon and giving the partner an opening, most of the time
  113. [13:21:20] #Yellow Paint: something important about doubles is that opponent has two targets to choose
  114. [13:21:50] @zeefable: responding to some more questions i got
  115. [13:21:52] #Yellow Paint: if you protect one of your mons and it's targeted, the partner is free to attack or switch
  116. [13:22:28] @zeefable: "how do we deal with WP glastrier?" defense boosts from celesteela really help, i also have an idea in mind for a later teammate
  117. [13:22:29] %Katy: Lobsta96: As it is now doesn’t this team kinda have a mad MU vs trick room
  118. [13:22:32] %Ika Ika Musume: I am not sure if this is correct as I am no doubles expert, but it also wastes time of key speed control methods such as Trick room
  119. [13:22:33] %Katy: nother one :)
  120. [13:22:44] @yuki ♪: We can definitely address the Trick Room matchup
  121. [13:22:48] thewalraingoats!!!: it does struggle but we have 3 more pokemon to work with
  122. [13:22:50] %Ika Ika Musume: And it quarters damage from Dynamax Attacks
  123. [13:22:51] Helios of Sun: That is correct
  124. [13:22:52] @yuki ♪: Because mostly what you see from TR
  125. [13:23:03] @zeefable: yeah i think something people are kind of forgetting is that we do still have 3 pokemon
  126. [13:23:15] #Yellow Paint: is the mon in question incineroar
  127. [13:23:18] @yuki ♪: Is something like Glastrier + Amoonguss + Incin + TR setter (typically Porygon2 maybe Dusclops are fairly common)
  128. [13:23:18] @zeefable: if you're asking how do we deal with this? it'll probably be addressed before the team is complete
  129. [13:23:34] #Yellow Paint: but yeah we should try to continue
  130. [13:23:51] #Yellow Paint: who next? I'm nomming incin as the boring choice
  131. [13:23:55] @yuki ♪: I think yeah the next Pokemon I would suggest would just be Incineroar
  132. [13:23:59] @zeefable: incin is exactly what i have in mind lol
  133. [13:24:00] @yuki ♪: Fake Out + Taunt is never bad
  134. [13:24:01] @zeefable: its basic but like
  135. [13:24:08] Helios of Sun: Incineroar is most of the times, a very good pick
  136. [13:24:10] @zeefable: for balances like these its so crucial to have that board control
  137. [13:24:17] #Yellow Paint: incin provides intimidate and fake out
  138. [13:24:37] @yuki ♪: [18:24] Coolcodename: This is more of a general question in why si trick room good in vgc and a niche in singles?
  139. [13:24:42] @yuki ♪: So in VGC, you get 2 Pokemon
  140. [13:24:49] @zeefable: I have an incin set that really helps out with the glastrier problem
  141. [13:24:50] @yuki ♪: So you can have a Trick Room setter out with your offensive Pokemon
  142. [13:24:59] #Yellow Paint: and as a fire hits certain steels and other mons like glastrier
  143. [13:25:04] @yuki ♪: letting you best utilise your turns inside of Trick Room
  144. [13:25:10] Helios of Sun: Also good to note that Double Battles normally occur much faster than Single Battles
  145. [13:25:29] @zeefable: !code
  146. Incineroar @ Shuca Berry
  147. Ability: Intimidate
  148. Level: 50
  149. EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpD
  150. Impish Nature
  151. IVs: 27 Spe
  152. - Fake Out
  153. - Flare Blitz
  154. - Parting Shot
  155. - Burning Jealousy
  156. [13:25:34] Helios of Sun: So 5 turns of Trick Room end up having quite a bit of value
  157. [13:25:46] @zeefable: so basically, this set lets you sponge a max quake from glastrier and burn it with burning jealousy
  158. [13:25:53] @zeefable: which really cripples it for the remainder of the game
  159. [13:26:39] #AM: is someone putting togther paste?
  160. [13:26:40] #Yellow Paint: I heard taunt mentioned
  161. [13:26:48] @zeefable: i have a paste in my builder
  162. [13:26:50] Helios of Sun: I'm putting a paste together yeah
  163. [13:26:50] #AM: okay
  164. [13:27:02] #AM: sorry just finished cooking
  165. [13:27:04] #Yellow Paint: [13:26:54] Plopy14: thick fat snorlax with curse beats tr threats like glastrier and since u have a flying type and a fairy type it allows for snorlax to not be hit by fighting moves suggestion
  166. [13:27:22] @zeefable: taunt is an option but I think burning jealousy is pretty good for crippling glastrier
  167. [13:27:24] @yuki ♪: So generally I play Taunt Incineroar, mostly because I like flat out denying the Trick Room from going up
  168. [13:27:37] @zeefable: curselax can get overwhelmed really easily which is my main complaint
  169. [13:27:47] @zeefable: it doesnt have a lot of offensive pressure unless its dynamaxed
  170. [13:27:52] @yuki ♪: I think if we wanted to use Snorlax, it would really be the crux of the team
  171. [13:27:58] @yuki ♪: and need to be supported
  172. [13:27:58] @zeefable: and on this team you'd really prefer that it be either one of garchomp or cele
  173. [13:28:07] #Yellow Paint: there are already a few mons here that wanna max yeah
  174. [13:28:37] #Yellow Paint: [13:28:21] yourwelcomethank: i would suggest the team adds an answer or some way of checking rain.
  175. [13:29:11] @zeefable: hm
  176. [13:29:18] @zeefable: yuki what do we feel about a critkiss here
  177. [13:29:21] #Yellow Paint: I do agree that waters are an issue
  178. [13:29:34] @yuki ♪: I don't know how much I like CritKiss
  179. [13:29:42] @yuki ♪: But that's from lack of using it so far
  180. [13:29:48] @zeefable: its really good into rain
  181. [13:29:49] #AM: whats build so far?
  182. [13:29:58] @zeefable: !code
  183. Celesteela @ Safety Goggles
  184. Ability: Beast Boost
  185. Level: 50
  186. EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
  187. Timid Nature
  188. IVs: 0 Atk
  189. - Air Slash
  190. - Flash Cannon
  191. - Meteor Beam
  192. - Protect
  193.  
  194. Garchomp @ Life Orb
  195. Ability: Rough Skin
  196. Level: 50
  197. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  198. Jolly Nature
  199. - Stomping Tantrum
  200. - Rock Slide
  201. - Swords Dance
  202. - Protect
  203.  
  204. Tapu Koko @ Magnet
  205. Ability: Electric Surge
  206. Level: 50
  207. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  208. Timid Nature
  209. IVs: 0 Atk
  210. - Thunderbolt
  211. - Dazzling Gleam
  212. - Electroweb
  213. - Protect
  214.  
  215. Incineroar @ Shuca Berry
  216. Ability: Intimidate
  217. Level: 50
  218. EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpD
  219. Impish Nature
  220. IVs: 27 Spe
  221. - Fake Out
  222. - Flare Blitz
  223. - Parting Shot
  224. - Burning Jealousy
  225. [13:30:03] @yuki ♪: Well, if it's as good as normal Kiss into Rain
  226. [13:30:07] @yuki ♪: Then it's not a tough include
  227. [13:30:25] @yuki ♪: [18:30] Br0Sk1llz: maybe optimize chomp for life orb recoil?
  228. [13:30:31] #AM: is zygarde relevant in vgc?
  229. [13:30:32] @yuki ♪: So we've just gone max speed max attack
  230. [13:30:33] #Yellow Paint: !code
  231. [13:29:28] Chikster: i think i agree withyourwelcomethank
  232. [13:29:35] Chikster: an assault vest rilla maybe?
  233. [13:30:35] @yuki ♪: Zygarde is illegal rn
  234. [13:30:39] #AM: oh
  235. [13:30:46] #AM: ic
  236. [13:30:47] @zeefable: av rilla isnt like
  237. [13:30:50] @zeefable: super great into rain
  238. [13:31:06] @yuki ♪: nah it just gets pressured by Zap + Airstream Kingdra and such
  239. [13:31:12] @zeefable: it's just gonna get max airstreamed
  240. [13:31:13] @yuki ♪: and without the extra power from Band, it's not pressuring 2HKOs
  241. [13:31:15] Helios of Sun: yeah
  242. [13:31:17] #Yellow Paint: !code
  243. [13:30:28] Plopy14: snorlax with its high sp def stat can easily counter rain teams and if u arent gonna do snorlax then do clef because it allows for a good bulky support next to chomp
  244. [13:31:10] Plopy14: snorlax + clef even better
  245. [13:31:25] thewalraingoats!!!: snorlax just doesnt have room on the team
  246. [13:31:26] @zeefable: can we blacklist snorlax from this team
  247. [13:31:28] @zeefable: it is not happening
  248. [13:31:43] #Yellow Paint: got it
  249. [13:31:43] @yuki ♪: [18:31] Gfazzo: I know we have steela which generally has a positive mu into landorus but i can't help but feel a water type would be appreciated
  250. [13:31:43] Helios of Sun: snorlax isn't great if it is not a focal point
  251. [13:31:47] @yuki ♪: I had something in mind for slot 6
  252. [13:31:51] @zeefable: as do i
  253. [13:31:55] %Ika Ika Musume: What about Ferrothorn
  254. [13:31:56] @yuki ♪: Likely along the lines of Urshifu-R
  255. [13:32:12] %Ika Ika Musume: Oh a rain check has already been added nvm
  256. [13:32:13] Helios of Sun: Urshifu-R is a welcome addition here
  257. [13:32:16] Helios of Sun: IMO
  258. [13:32:39] @zeefable: critkiss + urshifu for the last two slots then?
  259. [13:32:46] @yuki ♪: yeah I think they're easy inclusions
  260. [13:32:51] #Yellow Paint: seems alright yeah
  261. [13:32:54] %Katy: Lobsta says thanks to everyone who answered his question :)
  262. [13:32:56] @yuki ♪: [18:32] HumanDoesVGC: Could we use pelipper as the last?
  263. [13:32:57] @yuki ♪: Not really
  264. [13:33:00] @yuki ♪: It's not really adding much
  265. [13:33:05] @yuki ♪: and Pelipper kinda isn't all that good
  266. [13:33:15] #Yellow Paint: peli only good as a rain setter
  267. [13:33:19] @yuki ♪: Not even then
  268. [13:33:25] thewalraingoats!!!: pelliper is too weak to be good here and is weak to a ton of stuff
  269. [13:33:26] Helios of Sun: politoed is often times better
  270. [13:33:30] @yuki ♪: [18:33] TGC_HOGZ: what if we added venukoal
  271. [13:33:30] @yuki ♪: [18:33] TGC_HOGZ: ez last 2 mons
  272. [13:33:31] @yuki ♪: [18:33] TGC_HOGZ: instead of kiss shifu
  273. [13:33:31] Helios of Sun: as a rain setter
  274. [13:33:32] @yuki ♪: ugh
  275. [13:33:34] @yuki ♪: !code
  276. [18:32] TGC_HOGZ: ok
  277. [18:33] TGC_HOGZ: what if we added venukoal
  278. [18:33] TGC_HOGZ: ez last 2 mons
  279. [18:33] TGC_HOGZ: instead of kiss shifu
  280. [13:33:39] @yuki ♪: I always do !show
  281. [13:33:44] #Yellow Paint: how do we feel about overall bulk?
  282. [13:34:32] #Yellow Paint: venukoal might work, though it clashes a bit with koko
  283. [13:34:35] @zeefable: it should be fine, most of these guys have solid natural bulk and with access to both defensive boosting max moves its probably fine
  284. [13:34:36] @yuki ♪: Yeah
  285. [13:34:40] @yuki ♪: That's the main issue with VenuKoal
  286. [13:34:50] thewalraingoats!!!: i think the team is a bit lacking in speed control
  287. [13:34:51] @yuki ♪: That and I think it doesn't improve Rain
  288. [13:35:12] @zeefable: not sure i agree
  289. [13:35:34] @zeefable: two airstream users + electroweb is fine, we have the bulk to navigate the more aggressive tailwind stuff and TR comps too
  290. [13:35:34] #Yellow Paint: there's airstream and koko eweb
  291. [13:35:49] thewalraingoats!!!: i guess
  292. [13:36:03] @yuki ♪: If you're running into Whimsicott + Cinderace + Tapu Lele, you likely just have good counterplay via Celesteela + Urshifu-R and going for the max
  293. [13:36:07] @zeefable: hm i will say though
  294. [13:36:08] thewalraingoats!!!: i just dont like having to rely on airstream too much
  295. [13:36:10] @zeefable: since we added togekiss
  296. [13:36:15] @yuki ♪: !code
  297. [18:36] TGC_HOGZ: what abt adding spec clef
  298. [18:36] TGC_HOGZ: or like a p2 and someth else
  299. [13:36:17] @zeefable: maybe we can swap koko to eleki
  300. [13:36:18] @yuki ♪: Again with Spec Clef
  301. [13:36:26] @yuki ♪: Spectrier does want to go with the Dynamax again
  302. [13:36:31] @zeefable: much better rain matchup too
  303. [13:36:36] @zeefable: since you outspeed modest kingdra
  304. [13:36:50] #Yellow Paint: would eleki venukoal do it
  305. [13:36:58] @yuki ♪: I'd keep Kiss Shifu
  306. [13:37:06] #Yellow Paint: fair
  307. [13:37:19] Helios of Sun: I also agree with keeping Kiss Shifu
  308. [13:37:24] @zeefable: !code
  309. Celesteela @ Safety Goggles
  310. Ability: Beast Boost
  311. Level: 50
  312. EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
  313. Timid Nature
  314. IVs: 0 Atk
  315. - Air Slash
  316. - Flash Cannon
  317. - Meteor Beam
  318. - Protect
  319.  
  320. Garchomp @ Life Orb
  321. Ability: Rough Skin
  322. Level: 50
  323. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  324. Jolly Nature
  325. - Stomping Tantrum
  326. - Rock Slide
  327. - Swords Dance
  328. - Protect
  329.  
  330. Regieleki @ Magnet
  331. Ability: Transistor
  332. Level: 50
  333. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  334. Timid Nature
  335. IVs: 0 Atk
  336. - Thunderbolt
  337. - Electroweb
  338. - Volt Switch
  339. - Protect
  340.  
  341. Incineroar @ Shuca Berry
  342. Ability: Intimidate
  343. Level: 50
  344. EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpD
  345. Impish Nature
  346. IVs: 27 Spe
  347. - Fake Out
  348. - Flare Blitz
  349. - Parting Shot
  350. - Burning Jealousy
  351.  
  352. Togekiss @ Scope Lens
  353. Ability: Super Luck
  354. Level: 50
  355. EVs: 76 HP / 12 Def / 204 SpA / 4 SpD / 212 Spe
  356. Modest Nature
  357. IVs: 0 Atk
  358. - Dazzling Gleam
  359. - Air Slash
  360. - Follow Me
  361. - Protect
  362.  
  363. Urshifu-Rapid-Strike-Gmax @ Focus Sash
  364. Ability: Unseen Fist
  365. Level: 50
  366. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  367. Jolly Nature
  368. - Surging Strikes
  369. - Close Combat
  370. - Aqua Jet
  371. - Detect
  372. [13:37:25] @yuki ♪: [18:37] Toastest: fini would help against rain
  373. [13:37:26] @zeefable: so this now
  374. [13:37:30] #Yellow Paint: ok, so it seems like we're pretty set on those 6
  375. [13:37:34] @yuki ♪: Actually it's just weak to Rillaboom and ZApdos
  376. [13:37:36] @yuki ♪: so
  377. [13:37:42] #Yellow Paint: thoughts on sets then?
  378. [13:37:45] @yuki ♪: you wouldn't typically consider Fini the best check to Rain
  379. [13:39:00] @yuki ♪: [18:38] Toastest: fair point. looking at the whole team, not a lot likes looking at zapdos in general
  380. [13:39:06] @yuki ♪: So a lot of what we want to do against Zapdos is basically
  381. [13:39:13] @yuki ♪: get one of our big dynamaxers in front of it
  382. [13:39:17] @yuki ♪: with some speed control
  383. [13:39:27] @zeefable: maxing chomp + pinning it with eleki's electroweb
  384. [13:39:31] @zeefable: would be my plan into zapdos
  385. [13:39:40] @yuki ♪: Yeah that's basically how I play into it
  386. [13:39:44] @yuki ♪: When you max Chomp
  387. [13:39:49] @yuki ♪: you'll be surprised by how much bulk it has
  388. [13:40:01] @yuki ♪: [18:39] TGC_HOGZ: this team save for chomp kinda gets shit on by clefleki
  389. [13:40:11] thewalraingoats!!!: klefki isnt relevant
  390. [13:40:14] thewalraingoats!!!: oh
  391. [13:40:17] thewalraingoats!!!: read that wrong
  392. [13:40:18] @yuki ♪: Clef+Eleki
  393. [13:40:21] @yuki ♪: So did I
  394. [13:40:29] @yuki ♪: I think with that it's mostly modal things
  395. [13:40:35] Helios of Sun: The primary way of dealing with Clef Eleki would most likely be Garchomp
  396. [13:40:40] @yuki ♪: So I would probably just be playing Garchomp + Incin
  397. [13:40:48] @yuki ♪: and pressure the Clef early with Fake Out
  398. [13:40:49] Helios of Sun: yeah, I agree with that
  399. [13:41:05] @zeefable: im not terribly opposed to making the kiss a clef
  400. [13:41:13] @zeefable: to cut an elec weak and add some more bulk
  401. [13:41:13] #Yellow Paint: how about opposing washtom?
  402. [13:41:15] %Ika Ika Musume: What about Weakness Policy Celesteela
  403. [13:41:44] @zeefable: the sleepers matchup is way harder
  404. [13:41:45] @zeefable: imo
  405. [13:41:48] %Ika Ika Musume: I guess there is no real way to deal with spore then
  406. [13:41:50] Helios of Sun: Putting Clefairy also provides redirection to allow Garchomp to have safer setup
  407. [13:42:02] @zeefable: yeah thats what im thinking
  408. [13:42:06] @zeefable: and it still checks urshifu
  409. [13:42:17] Helios of Sun: yeah
  410. [13:43:27] @zeefable: [13:39:26] Jedeveron: why not more speed on incin?
  411. [13:43:48] @zeefable: fast incin seems to be the rage but i really like the slow parting shot on offense
  412. [13:44:06] @zeefable: also i dont want to cut into any bulk here
  413. [13:44:20] Helios of Sun: I also would like to add that since the team does not have heavy defensive investment in general, good to put more bulk into Incin
  414. [13:44:29] @yuki ♪: [18:44] Coolcodename: Why is shifu focus sash?
  415. [13:44:36] Helios of Sun: especially for the Glastrier matchup we mentioned earlier
  416. [13:44:38] @yuki ♪: Because its bulk is kinda bad
  417. [13:44:45] thewalraingoats!!!: shifu tends to just get run over by airstreams
  418. [13:44:46] @yuki ♪: and we want as many opportunities to use Surging Strikes as we can
  419. [13:44:48] @zeefable: sash shifu is really good in the endgame
  420. [13:45:08] @zeefable: it thrives off being able to surging strikes -> eat a max move -> hit again w/ either aqua jet or another surging strikes
  421. [13:45:26] @zeefable: !code
  422. Celesteela @ Safety Goggles
  423. Ability: Beast Boost
  424. Level: 50
  425. EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
  426. Timid Nature
  427. IVs: 0 Atk
  428. - Air Slash
  429. - Flash Cannon
  430. - Meteor Beam
  431. - Protect
  432.  
  433. Garchomp @ Life Orb
  434. Ability: Rough Skin
  435. Level: 50
  436. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  437. Jolly Nature
  438. - Stomping Tantrum
  439. - Rock Slide
  440. - Swords Dance
  441. - Protect
  442.  
  443. Regieleki @ Magnet
  444. Ability: Transistor
  445. Level: 50
  446. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  447. Timid Nature
  448. IVs: 0 Atk
  449. - Thunderbolt
  450. - Electroweb
  451. - Volt Switch
  452. - Protect
  453.  
  454. Incineroar @ Shuca Berry
  455. Ability: Intimidate
  456. Level: 50
  457. EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpD
  458. Impish Nature
  459. IVs: 27 Spe
  460. - Fake Out
  461. - Flare Blitz
  462. - Parting Shot
  463. - Burning Jealousy
  464.  
  465. Urshifu-Rapid-Strike-Gmax @ Focus Sash
  466. Ability: Unseen Fist
  467. Level: 50
  468. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  469. Jolly Nature
  470. - Surging Strikes
  471. - Close Combat
  472. - Aqua Jet
  473. - Detect
  474.  
  475. Clefairy @ Eviolite
  476. Ability: Friend Guard
  477. Level: 50
  478. EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
  479. Bold Nature
  480. IVs: 0 Atk
  481. - Follow Me
  482. - Helping Hand
  483. - Moonblast
  484. - Protect
  485. [13:45:30] @zeefable: so this is where I'm at rn
  486. [13:45:45] @yuki ♪: I think it's 180 Def on Clef that lives 2 CB Wicked Blows
  487. [13:45:53] @yuki ♪: Unless you've got a different bench
  488. [13:46:34] @zeefable: oh thats my b, fixed
  489. [13:46:39] @zeefable: hearing some comments about washtom
  490. [13:46:51] @yuki ♪: [18:46] TGC_HOGZ: why not gleam on clef
  491. [13:46:51] @zeefable: i think eleki clef pressures it really well
  492. [13:46:52] @yuki ♪: Preference
  493. [13:47:02] @yuki ♪: I think both are fine
  494. [13:47:14] @yuki ♪: Clefairy having the opportunity to lower SpA gives it something to do by itself
  495. [13:47:25] @zeefable: 0 SpA Clefairy Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Single Strike: 136-168 (77.7 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  496. [13:47:27] @zeefable: this is why
  497. [13:47:45] @zeefable: as opposed to
  498. [13:47:46] @zeefable: 0 SpA Clefairy Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Single Strike: 216-256 (123.4 - 146.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  499. [13:48:11] #Yellow Paint: yeah, dazzle from an already weak mon is pitiful
  500. [13:48:32] @zeefable: im about ready to call this the final product
  501. [13:48:39] @zeefable: if anyone has any serious issues please let one of us know
  502. [13:48:46] #Yellow Paint: yeah, we can move on to another team otherwise
  503. [13:48:58] %Katy: any question regarding the team
  504. [13:49:05] %Katy: can be asked now as well
  505. [13:49:57] @zeefable: AmberGoon0: Before you call anything, lets review on what we have to do to actually use the team (like what we start with, ect.)
  506. [13:50:01] @zeefable: ok sure brief summary
  507. [13:50:19] @zeefable: this is a redirection based offensive steelachomp team, which gives us a few different modes
  508. [13:50:46] @zeefable: celesteela is a really strong max into glastrier teams and venusaur teams, i recommend pairing it with incineroar, clefairy, and whichever remaining offensive mon
  509. [13:50:54] @zeefable: this gives it a lot of control and flexibility
  510. [13:51:15] @zeefable: boost it and its partners defense with max steelspike to take physical hits, airstream to outrun thundurus after one speed boost
  511. [13:51:26] @zeefable: meteor beam gives max rockfall, good for hitting the likes of incineroar torkoal and zapdos
  512. [13:51:36] %Katy: !code
  513. yourwelcomethank: with no Dragon Move on Garchomp for Kingdra rain looks tougher. Eleki clef could eweb it but your sacking a mon just to eweb it so thats my concern.
  514. [13:52:06] @zeefable: ok let me finish this summary and i will give an idea for the rain matchup since its a huge concern
  515. [13:52:15] %Katy: oki :)
  516. [13:52:46] @zeefable: garchomp is a unique ground in that it's a fire resist, really fast, and generally more bulky than landorus or mamoswine making it great for setting up swords dances. in VGC its really hard to fit multiple ground resists so an offensive ground is always appreciate
  517. [13:53:01] @zeefable: it synergizes really well with celesteela as the two sort of cover their bad matchups nicely
  518. [13:53:17] @zeefable: both of these guys pair well with redirection and speed control from eleki's electroweb
  519. [13:53:50] @zeefable: incineroar and clefairy are our means of controlling the board. we're using fat shuca berry incin to check the likes of Glastrier and Landorus-T while getting as much bulk out of it as we can
  520. [13:54:19] @zeefable: clefairy runs moonblast to help us better check urshifu, as our other dark resist, incineroar, is obviously weak to its close combat
  521. [13:55:08] @zeefable: regieleki is one of the best special attackers around, its both insanely strong with transistor + magnet (and even max lightning setting electric terrain) and really good at slowing things down with its electroweb, almost guaranteed to go first without any speed modifications
  522. [13:55:42] @zeefable: urshifu cleans up the team, giving us a way to beat up defensive pokemon like porygon2, incineroar, and even more offensive guys like landorus-t. sash makes up for the meh bulk and lets us do this effectively
  523. [13:56:54] #Yellow Paint: (I'll save this summary later to help teamdesc)
  524. [13:57:54] @zeefable: now re: rain, you're going to want to lead eleki + clef into what is mostly likely going to be a politoed + kingdra clicking helping hand max geyser
  525. [13:58:12] @zeefable: we want to setup and endgame where the opponent cannot break our celesteela
  526. [13:58:58] @zeefable: follow me and electroweb gives us a guaranteed speed advantage, we sacrifice clef and bring in celesteela. volt switch and max airstream off the kingdra to bring in the last mon (this should probably be garchomp)
  527. [13:59:12] @zeefable: effectively we want to bait them into hitting the eleki but we're going to preserve it by doing this
  528. [13:59:32] @zeefable: all the while we accumulate stat boosts with our steela to win the endgame as eleki will come back out and create a pin
  529. [13:59:54] @zeefable: AmberGoon0 yourwelcomethank i hope those explanations satisfy you
  530. [14:00:05] @zeefable: now, let's get onto the next.
  531. [14:00:10] @yuki ♪: Regirock!
  532. [14:00:11] #Yellow Paint: yup
  533. [14:00:16] #Yellow Paint: [13:49:09] TGC_HOGZ: may i give a suggestion for mext team?
  534. [14:00:16] #Yellow Paint: [13:49:12] TGC_HOGZ: clefleki?
  535. [14:00:18] @zeefable: /announce please pm me core ideas for our second team! poll will go up shortly
  536. [14:00:28] %Katy: !code
  537. yourwelcomethank: 252 SpA Life Orb Kingdra Max Geyser vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Clefairy in Rain: 160-188 (90.3 - 106.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
  538. yourwelcomethank: They dont actually need to click HH they can icy wind to slow down eleki and kill clef
  539. [14:00:29] @yuki ♪: I'm still saying Regirock :)
  540. [14:00:32] #Yellow Paint: or yeah regi squad sounds nice
  541. [14:00:34] %Katy: another Q
  542. [14:00:50] @zeefable: you're still faster with eweb
  543. [14:01:07] @zeefable: ok we need to move on
  544. [14:01:16] @zeefable: any comments about the first team, pm me after the workshop
  545. [14:02:10] @zeefable: alright i think i already have 8 suggestions
  546. [14:02:12] @zeefable: so throwing up the poll
  547. [14:03:26] A poll was started by zeefable.
  548. [14:03:37] @zeefable: sorry we couldnt get everyone, I actually got 12 submissions
  549. [14:03:45] @yuki ♪: you can put more than 8 options in a poll
  550. [14:03:51] @zeefable: what.
  551. [14:03:52] @zeefable: since when
  552. [14:03:55] @yuki ♪: a while
  553. [14:04:01] @yuki ♪: idk the limit
  554. [14:04:21] #Yellow Paint: oh well, there's plenty here already
  555. [14:04:22] @zeefable: lets just roll with these (oops), plenty of good options in here
  556. [14:04:38] #Yellow Paint: are we really gonna do beat up though
  557. [14:04:39] @zeefable: /announce voting closing at XX:07
  558. [14:04:53] @yuki ♪: Well, Dragapult + Terrakion has mores modes than
  559. [14:04:55] @yuki ♪: Just go Beat Up
  560. [14:05:23] Helios of Sun: terrapults these days have become quite interesting
  561. [14:05:28] @zeefable: zap grimmsnarl coming in
  562. [14:05:29] @zeefable: oo
  563. [14:06:19] @yuki ♪: TerraPult with a lead
  564. [14:06:27] #AM: you guys need anything from me right now?
  565. [14:06:33] @zeefable: i think we're good
  566. [14:06:37] #AM: okay just let me know
  567. [14:07:00] @yuki ♪: close one
  568. [14:07:08] @zeefable: terrapult it is
  569. [14:07:22] @zeefable: right off the bat can i just suggest we go full degen with this
  570. [14:07:27] @yuki ♪: Uhh yeah
  571. [14:07:27] @zeefable: and make it terrapult + venukoal
  572. [14:07:28] @yuki ♪: Ofc
  573. [14:07:33] #Yellow Paint: lmao
  574. [14:07:37] @zeefable: chat what do we think
  575. [14:07:41] @yuki ♪: That's the best TerraPult build right now
  576. [14:07:49] Helios of Sun: yeah
  577. [14:07:55] Helios of Sun: it's most likely the best right now
  578. [14:08:01] #Yellow Paint: might as well show off the most broke strats
  579. [14:08:02] thewalraingoats!!!: sounds good to me
  580. [14:08:07] @zeefable: i will hit the builder then
  581. [14:08:20] @zeefable: terrapult has a lot of different sets sooo
  582. [14:08:27] @zeefable: will be very open to suggestions
  583. [14:08:30] @yuki ♪: I would suggest we go
  584. [14:08:34] @yuki ♪: WP Pult + HH Terrak
  585. [14:08:36] #Yellow Paint: yeah, let's discuss sets
  586. [14:08:52] @yuki ♪: Generally the build I've found to be most successful, and it gives you a couple good modes
  587. [14:08:57] @zeefable: i got PMd a 3 attacks + HH terrak
  588. [14:09:07] @zeefable: !code
  589. Terrakion @ White Herb
  590. Ability: Justified
  591. Level: 50
  592. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  593. Jolly Nature
  594. - Rock Slide
  595. - Helping Hand
  596. - Close Combat
  597. - Iron Head
  598.  
  599. Dragapult @ Life Orb
  600. Ability: Clear Body
  601. Level: 50
  602. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  603. Jolly Nature
  604. - Beat Up
  605. - Fly
  606. - Dragon Darts
  607. - Phantom Force
  608. [14:09:08] #Yellow Paint: what's activating wp on pult?
  609. [14:09:23] @yuki ♪: you don't necessarily need to proc it
  610. [14:09:27] @zeefable: personally I like lorb pult more, just keep in mind it won't be there for venusaur
  611. [14:09:28] @yuki ♪: the oppo will proc it
  612. [14:09:29] #Yellow Paint: ah
  613. [14:09:34] @zeefable: but it might want coba more anyways on a team like this
  614. [14:09:46] Helios of Sun: The idea here is that you can max either mon
  615. [14:09:49] @zeefable: personally im a little hesitant to run terrakion without tect
  616. [14:09:57] @yuki ♪: I just drop Iron Head tbh
  617. [14:10:13] @zeefable: the grasses are pretty threatening
  618. [14:10:16] @yuki ♪: I have Rock Slide, Close Combat, Helping Hand, Protect on my main TerraPult build
  619. [14:10:17] #Yellow Paint: iron head only really there for def boosts imo
  620. [14:10:30] @zeefable: i also have a suggestion for
  621. [14:10:32] @zeefable: goggles pult
  622. [14:10:35] @zeefable: to help with sun
  623. [14:10:40] @yuki ♪: I can see Goggles Pult
  624. [14:10:47] Helios of Sun: goggles pult is great
  625. [14:10:53] @zeefable: also lets you beat up through amoonguss
  626. [14:10:57] @zeefable: minor but pretty neat interaction
  627. [14:11:18] Helios of Sun: It does happen pretty often if the opponent has one, so it is great for that
  628. [14:11:19] @zeefable: yall wanna rock with that?
  629. [14:11:22] @yuki ♪: We can stay with Life Orb on Venu then
  630. [14:11:28] Helios of Sun: I personally like it
  631. [14:11:55] @zeefable: the suggestion also had taunt terrak but personally i think HH can mitigate the lack of a boosting item on pult
  632. [14:12:18] @yuki ♪: I would rather go with HH because it makes your TerraPult mode less easy to read
  633. [14:12:24] @yuki ♪: Either mon can dmax and support the other
  634. [14:12:33] @yuki ♪: You're basically playing a guessing game as to which way they go
  635. [14:12:51] @zeefable: !code
  636. Terrakion @ White Herb
  637. Ability: Justified
  638. Level: 50
  639. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  640. Jolly Nature
  641. - Rock Slide
  642. - Helping Hand
  643. - Close Combat
  644. - Protect
  645.  
  646. Dragapult @ Safety Goggles
  647. Ability: Clear Body
  648. Level: 50
  649. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  650. Jolly Nature
  651. - Beat Up
  652. - Fly
  653. - Dragon Darts
  654. - Phantom Force
  655. [14:13:04] @zeefable: any problems?
  656. [14:13:12] #Yellow Paint: goggs + hh seems strong yeah
  657. [14:13:18] @zeefable: [14:13:09] AmberGoon0: Why fly?
  658. [14:13:23] @zeefable: fly is just the base move for max airstream
  659. [14:13:25] @yuki ♪: Fly gives us Max Airstream
  660. [14:13:59] @zeefable: airstream on pult is really really good, for a lot of the same reasons electroweb eleki is good
  661. [14:14:02] @zeefable: its fast and reliable
  662. [14:14:11] @yuki ♪: That and they're not taking your boosts away from you
  663. [14:14:28] @zeefable: oh
  664. [14:14:31] @zeefable: i have a neat suggestion
  665. [14:14:32] @yuki ♪: So they kinda just have to put up with the fact you have the fastest thing on the field for the rest of the game.
  666. [14:14:39] @zeefable: [14:14:13] Megagarchompgood: imo lo pult instead of safety goggles is better as it likes having a boosting item and we should use safety goggles indeedee on the team instead as I have found pult + indeedee good vs rain and spectrier clef
  667. [14:14:52] @zeefable: indeedee pult is pretty good
  668. [14:14:55] @zeefable: have tested it myself
  669. [14:15:09] @yuki ♪: I was running Indeedee Pult but with Sash Indeedee for a while
  670. [14:15:19] @yuki ♪: but I can see Goggles Indeedee now I've switched to Sash Terrak
  671. [14:15:28] Helios of Sun: I used it a lot early s9
  672. [14:15:32] Helios of Sun: it is fantastic
  673. [14:15:57] @zeefable: alright so i think i have an idea
  674. [14:16:01] @zeefable: one second
  675. [14:17:05] @zeefable: !code
  676. Terrakion @ White Herb
  677. Ability: Justified
  678. Level: 50
  679. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  680. Jolly Nature
  681. - Rock Slide
  682. - Helping Hand
  683. - Close Combat
  684. - Protect
  685.  
  686. Dragapult @ Life Orb
  687. Ability: Clear Body
  688. Level: 50
  689. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  690. Jolly Nature
  691. - Beat Up
  692. - Fly
  693. - Dragon Darts
  694. - Phantom Force
  695.  
  696. Indeedee-F (F) @ Safety Goggles
  697. Ability: Psychic Surge
  698. Level: 50
  699. EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
  700. Relaxed Nature
  701. IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
  702. - Follow Me
  703. - Helping Hand
  704. - Expanding Force
  705. - Protect
  706.  
  707. Venusaur-Gmax @ Coba Berry
  708. Ability: Chlorophyll
  709. Level: 50
  710. IVs: 0 Atk
  711.  
  712. Torkoal @ Charcoal
  713. Ability: Drought
  714. Level: 50
  715. IVs: 0 Atk
  716.  
  717. Porygon2 @ Eviolite
  718. Ability: Download
  719. Level: 50
  720. IVs: 0 Atk
  721. [14:17:27] @zeefable: went ahead and threw on venukoal + p2, I think indeedee p2 tork gives a nice semi tr mode
  722. [14:17:37] @zeefable: can really mess people up if they account for terrapult too much
  723. [14:17:44] @zeefable: which is a big strength of these teams
  724. [14:18:01] @zeefable: thoughts?
  725. [14:18:02] #AM: you could do nicknames to not reveal last two members right/
  726. [14:18:03] #AM: ?
  727. [14:18:11] Helios of Sun: I like it
  728. [14:18:26] #Yellow Paint: what do you mean by nicknames?
  729. [14:18:26] Helios of Sun: Porygon2 + Venusaur is a fantastic lead into most of the times that beat terrapult
  730. [14:18:29] %Katy: !code
  731. Hood135: I was going to suggest full offensive Dragapult, use it as a Dynamax option when Terrakion cant max. Sort of Beat Up/Fly/Dragon Darts/Phantom Force. Helping Hand on Terrakion.
  732. [14:18:43] @zeefable: yup thats what we have now
  733. [14:18:44] @yuki ♪: That's exactly what we've done
  734. [14:18:48] @zeefable: with the goggles indeedee addition
  735. [14:19:57] #AM: zeefable answered my question nvm
  736. [14:20:05] @zeefable: not seeing anything in my pms so I guess lets work on the venukoal sets
  737. [14:20:08] #AM: guess its an old gen trick
  738. [14:20:16] @zeefable: i like coba a lot for security against max airstream
  739. [14:20:23] @zeefable: my second favorite item after life orb
  740. [14:20:32] @yuki ♪: I think Coba is better than Sash currently
  741. [14:20:37] @yuki ♪: so I'll roll with it
  742. [14:20:47] @zeefable: i'd like to use modest
  743. [14:21:00] @zeefable: because we dont have a boosting item, making up for the power loss is important
  744. [14:21:04] @zeefable: !code
  745. Venusaur-Gmax @ Coba Berry
  746. Ability: Chlorophyll
  747. Level: 50
  748. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  749. Modest Nature
  750. IVs: 0 Atk
  751. - Sleep Powder
  752. - Leaf Storm
  753. - Sludge Bomb
  754. - Earth Power
  755. [14:21:18] @yuki ♪: I basically always run Timid
  756. [14:21:19] #Yellow Paint: thoughts on specs koal?
  757. [14:21:21] @zeefable: i dont think weather ball is super worth or anything
  758. [14:21:22] @yuki ♪: So Eleki + Ace
  759. [14:21:26] @yuki ♪: can't just beat you
  760. [14:21:32] #Yellow Paint: yeah ep is fine
  761. [14:21:32] Helios of Sun: Charcoal is often times better I think
  762. [14:21:41] thewalraingoats!!!: i think specs is a bit too limiting
  763. [14:21:49] thewalraingoats!!!: and charcoal boosts it enough for it to be scary
  764. [14:21:49] @zeefable: into that combo id probably just bring terrapult tho
  765. [14:21:55] #Yellow Paint: sure
  766. [14:21:56] @zeefable: or indeedee pult -> airstream bring in terrak
  767. [14:22:49] @yuki ♪: [19:22] Gfazzo: It may just be a a personal thing since ive never been too crazy about indeedee as its very boring, was thinking togekiss could be a pretty cool option as tw urshifu could be a problem for our main 2
  768. [14:22:49] @zeefable: !code
  769. Torkoal @ Charcoal
  770. Ability: Drought
  771. Level: 50
  772. EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
  773. Quiet Nature
  774. IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
  775. - Eruption
  776. - Heat Wave
  777. - Earth Power
  778. - Protect
  779. [14:23:05] @zeefable: i dont hate togekiss
  780. [14:23:08] @yuki ♪: I like Togekiss
  781. [14:23:09] Helios of Sun: I agree with gfazzo there
  782. [14:23:14] @yuki ♪: I like it a lot
  783. [14:23:18] #Yellow Paint: goggs toge?
  784. [14:23:20] Helios of Sun: I think Togekiss may be better
  785. [14:23:23] @zeefable: your tr mode is a bit less good but this isn't a hard tr build anyways
  786. [14:23:28] @zeefable: so yeah lets make that change
  787. [14:23:33] @zeefable: im assuming goggles
  788. [14:23:46] Helios of Sun: I would think so, yeah
  789. [14:23:54] @zeefable: i assume no one has any issues with the koal set
  790. [14:23:57] @zeefable: just standard offensive
  791. [14:24:04] @yuki ♪: pretty standard Torkoal
  792. [14:24:11] #Yellow Paint: sure
  793. [14:24:41] #AM: whats team so far?
  794. [14:24:45] @zeefable: !code
  795. Togekiss @ Safety Goggles
  796. Ability: Super Luck
  797. Level: 50
  798. EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 68 SpA / 4 SpD / 108 Spe
  799. Bold Nature
  800. IVs: 0 Atk
  801. - Air Slash
  802. - Dazzling Gleam
  803. - Follow Me
  804. - Protect
  805. [14:24:45] #AM: building sun
  806. [14:24:47] @yuki ♪: Not sure how I feel about Goggles Kiss
  807. [14:24:54] @zeefable: this is my set that outspeeds 113 tyranitar
  808. [14:25:09] @zeefable: goggles is like pretty good
  809. [14:25:18] @yuki ♪: [19:25] Gfazzo: also another suggestion I feel like semi defensive torkoal could be good here with yawn eruption burning jealousy and protect
  810. [14:25:19] #AM: !dt super luck
  811. [14:25:29] @zeefable: if we went with defensive koal
  812. [14:25:29] @yuki ♪: Maybe with this, but I generally think that if we're going for semi-room
  813. [14:25:31] @zeefable: we'd drop p2
  814. [14:25:35] @yuki ♪: we want offensive
  815. [14:25:36] @zeefable: which is an option
  816. [14:25:42] @yuki ♪: if we drop P2, that'll be the way I think we'd go with it
  817. [14:25:57] @zeefable: but
  818. [14:26:02] @zeefable: i really like p2 for being good into chomp and lando
  819. [14:26:17] @yuki ♪: I also like going into Semi-Room territory because Torkoal underspeeds Glastrier
  820. [14:26:17] Helios of Sun: If we drop the Trick Room mode, Glastrier could become a problem
  821. [14:26:20] @zeefable: oh yeah let me grab what the team is currently
  822. [14:26:30] @zeefable: !code
  823. Terrakion @ White Herb
  824. Ability: Justified
  825. Level: 50
  826. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  827. Jolly Nature
  828. - Rock Slide
  829. - Helping Hand
  830. - Close Combat
  831. - Protect
  832.  
  833. Dragapult @ Life Orb
  834. Ability: Clear Body
  835. Level: 50
  836. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  837. Jolly Nature
  838. - Beat Up
  839. - Fly
  840. - Dragon Darts
  841. - Phantom Force
  842.  
  843. Togekiss @ Safety Goggles
  844. Ability: Super Luck
  845. Level: 50
  846. EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 68 SpA / 4 SpD / 108 Spe
  847. Bold Nature
  848. IVs: 0 Atk
  849. - Air Slash
  850. - Dazzling Gleam
  851. - Follow Me
  852. - Protect
  853.  
  854. Venusaur-Gmax @ Coba Berry
  855. Ability: Chlorophyll
  856. Level: 50
  857. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  858. Modest Nature
  859. IVs: 0 Atk
  860. - Sleep Powder
  861. - Leaf Storm
  862. - Sludge Bomb
  863. - Earth Power
  864.  
  865. Torkoal @ Charcoal
  866. Ability: Drought
  867. Level: 50
  868. EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
  869. Quiet Nature
  870. IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
  871. - Eruption
  872. - Heat Wave
  873. - Earth Power
  874. - Protect
  875.  
  876. Porygon2 @ Eviolite
  877. Ability: Download
  878. Level: 50
  879. IVs: 0 Atk
  880. [14:26:37] @zeefable: this is what i have in my builder
  881. [14:26:53] @yuki ♪: P2 I would probably go with Ice Beam + Eerie Impulse
  882. [14:27:15] Helios of Sun: Ice Beam Eerie Impulse Recover TR is pretty good here
  883. [14:27:26] #AM: !dt eerie impulse
  884. [14:27:28] @yuki ♪: Ice Beam is good into Landorus-T and Garchomp.
  885. [14:27:31] #AM: interessting
  886. [14:27:36] @yuki ♪: Eerie Impulse covers off the fact that Torkoal doesn't have a stellar SpD
  887. [14:27:48] @zeefable: id probably go tri attack? makes you better against incin
  888. [14:28:04] @yuki ♪: idt we're having a huge amount of issues against Incin
  889. [14:28:12] @zeefable: the tr mode kinda does
  890. [14:29:01] @zeefable: hm
  891. [14:29:19] A poll was started by zeefable.
  892. [14:29:21] @zeefable: why not
  893. [14:29:28] @zeefable: /announce vote for the last move on p2!!
  894. [14:29:37] @zeefable: closing at xx:31
  895. [14:30:02] #Yellow Paint: also, still open to any suggestions or comments
  896. [14:30:06] @zeefable: yeah for sure
  897. [14:30:13] #Yellow Paint: this teams going a lot quicker
  898. [14:30:57] #Yellow Paint: are we fine with a bo3 between zee and yuki when we're finished?
  899. [14:31:05] #Yellow Paint: lmao
  900. [14:31:10] @yuki ♪: that's about right
  901. [14:31:16] @zeefable: oml
  902. [14:31:24] @yuki ♪: !pick tri attack, eerie impulse
  903. We randomly picked: tri attack
  904. [14:31:26] #Yellow Paint: !pick tri attack, eerie impulse
  905. We randomly picked: eerie impulse
  906. [14:31:28] #Yellow Paint: ah
  907. [14:31:29] @zeefable: LOL
  908. [14:31:31] @yuki ♪: BEST OF 3?
  909. [14:31:33] @yuki ♪: !pick tri attack, eerie impulse
  910. We randomly picked: tri attack
  911. [14:31:36] @yuki ♪: Tri Attack it is!
  912. [14:31:37] @zeefable: gaming
  913. [14:32:18] @zeefable: !code
  914. Terrakion @ White Herb
  915. Ability: Justified
  916. Level: 50
  917. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  918. Jolly Nature
  919. - Rock Slide
  920. - Helping Hand
  921. - Close Combat
  922. - Protect
  923.  
  924. Dragapult @ Life Orb
  925. Ability: Clear Body
  926. Level: 50
  927. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  928. Jolly Nature
  929. - Beat Up
  930. - Fly
  931. - Dragon Darts
  932. - Phantom Force
  933.  
  934. Togekiss @ Safety Goggles
  935. Ability: Super Luck
  936. Level: 50
  937. EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 68 SpA / 4 SpD / 108 Spe
  938. Bold Nature
  939. IVs: 0 Atk
  940. - Air Slash
  941. - Dazzling Gleam
  942. - Follow Me
  943. - Protect
  944.  
  945. Venusaur-Gmax @ Coba Berry
  946. Ability: Chlorophyll
  947. Level: 50
  948. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  949. Modest Nature
  950. IVs: 0 Atk
  951. - Sleep Powder
  952. - Leaf Storm
  953. - Sludge Bomb
  954. - Earth Power
  955.  
  956. Torkoal @ Charcoal
  957. Ability: Drought
  958. Level: 50
  959. EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
  960. Quiet Nature
  961. IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
  962. - Eruption
  963. - Heat Wave
  964. - Earth Power
  965. - Protect
  966.  
  967. Porygon2 @ Eviolite
  968. Ability: Download
  969. Level: 50
  970. EVs: 252 HP / 20 SpA / 236 SpD
  971. Modest Nature
  972. IVs: 0 Atk
  973. - Ice Beam
  974. - Tri Attack
  975. - Recover
  976. - Trick Room
  977. [14:32:22] @zeefable: this is what i have
  978. [14:32:51] @yuki ♪: uhh
  979. [14:32:53] @yuki ♪: 244 HP
  980. [14:32:57] @yuki ♪: optimises Vine Lash et al
  981. [14:33:13] @yuki ♪: (192 is a multiple of 6)
  982. [14:33:16] @zeefable: fixed
  983. [14:33:31] @zeefable: [14:33:13] AmberGoon0: Why follow me on kiss
  984. [14:33:45] @zeefable: togekiss is used to generate free attacking turns for our attackers
  985. [14:33:53] @zeefable: we can use togekiss + dragapult into sun for instance
  986. [14:34:00] @zeefable: to let dragapult safely max airstream the venusaur
  987. [14:34:08] @zeefable: and outspeed it on the 2nd turn with a speed boost
  988. [14:34:38] @zeefable: any other questions / comments / conerns?
  989. [14:34:56] #AM: yeah im just watching
  990. [14:35:09] #AM: looks dope though
  991. [14:35:40] @zeefable: [14:35:19] APRONVGC: why air slash on togekiss?
  992. [14:35:54] @yuki ♪: Apron ;;
  993. [14:35:58] @zeefable: i prefer air slash as opposed to smth like hh or yawn because it gives it a bit more to do then being passive
  994. [14:36:08] @zeefable: but tbh i think any of those support moves /could/ work
  995. [14:36:18] @zeefable: [14:35:10] Coolcodename ^_^: why do u have trick room?
  996. [14:36:29] @yuki ♪: We have a Torkoal, Trick Room just kinda works well with it
  997. [14:36:35] @yuki ♪: Being able to have Eruption going first off that thing
  998. [14:36:40] @zeefable: having a slow mode to account for people who might try to outspeed fast modes is nice
  999. [14:36:41] Helios of Sun: Offensive Torkoal in Trick Room is very threatening
  1000. [14:36:45] @zeefable: really lets you get the most out of your torkoal
  1001. [14:36:55] @zeefable: and p2 just happens to be a nice check to offensive grounds in addition
  1002. [14:37:50] @zeefable: [14:36:33] Gfazzo: back to the defensive torkoal idea i was thinking we could possibly drop p2 in favor of washtom as it does well into glastrier, landorus, garchomp and metagross
  1003. [14:37:52] @zeefable: not a super big fan of this, its another mon that really wants to eat dynamax when we already have 3 of those
  1004. [14:38:05] @zeefable: and its not like p2 + offensive tork isnt accounting for these already
  1005. [14:38:18] @zeefable: [14:35:42] Megagarchompgood: isn't serene grace better than superluck if we are not using scope lens on togekiss
  1006. [14:38:46] @zeefable: the chance for dazzling gleam crits make togekiss a bit more of an active supporting pokemon. air slash flinches are also not as great when it doesn't outspeed a ton of pokemon
  1007. [14:38:47] @yuki ♪: Super Luck means in pinch situations where maxing Togekiss is a best
  1008. [14:38:53] @yuki ♪: It still has an ability, also
  1009. [14:38:57] @zeefable: yh also totally useless should we ever max it
  1010. [14:39:05] @yuki ♪: There are non-zero situations when you should max Togekiss
  1011. [14:40:00] @zeefable: apron's making some good points in my pms about yawn togekiss
  1012. [14:40:17] @zeefable: im gonna summarize: offensive pokemon bait offensive responses, and yawn togekiss punishes offensive responses
  1013. [14:40:22] @zeefable: i think the logic is fairly sound
  1014. [14:40:36] Helios of Sun: That's a very fair point
  1015. [14:40:45] @yuki ♪: I think you can basically take your pick with it
  1016. [14:41:15] @zeefable: Yellow Paint would you be cool if i put yawn on the paste and mention air slash as like an other option in the writeup?
  1017. [14:41:16] @yuki ♪: Generally I go for Yawn, but Air Slash isn't amiss and I feel in the max situations that crop up, having the second offensive option isn't too horrible
  1018. [14:41:21] Helios of Sun: I think you can go a mixture of any 4 of (( air slash / dazzling gleam / protect / helping hand / follow me / yawn ))
  1019. [14:41:23] #Yellow Paint: sure why not
  1020. [14:41:26] @zeefable: that prob lets us catch both
  1021. [14:41:38] @zeefable: id rather that than put a slash in the paste
  1022. [14:41:43] #Yellow Paint: and yeah toge set is up to opinion anyways
  1023. [14:41:59] #Yellow Paint: yall wanna get that match ready?
  1024. [14:42:10] @zeefable: i think we should do a roomtour instead this time
  1025. [14:42:13] @zeefable: we have a pretty big audience
  1026. [14:42:23] #Yellow Paint: oh true
  1027. [14:42:27] #Yellow Paint: yeah alright
  1028. [14:42:48] #Yellow Paint: ok, just make two quick pokepastes and /wall em
  1029. [14:42:56] #Yellow Paint: and we'll call it for now then
  1030. [14:43:15] @zeefable: /announce SteelaChomp - https://pokepast.es/4a7af7525db0b045
  1031. [14:43:15] @zeefable: /announce TerraPult + VenuKoal - https://pokepast.es/cacc4ebb14d80686
  1032. [14:43:32] #Yellow Paint: cool
  1033. [14:43:41] #Yellow Paint: thanks for coming, folks!
  1034. [14:43:46] @zeefable: looks like we're gonna call it here and set up a room tour. thanks for participating everyone!!
  1035. [14:43:59] Br0Sk1llz: ayyy
  1036. [14:44:06] Coolcodename ^_^: Yoo
  1037. [14:44:06] Br0Sk1llz: ima use my own celechomp
  1038. [14:44:08] @zeefable: you don't have to use the teams we made of course
  1039. [14:44:18] AmberGoon0: I mean its better for testing purposes
  1040. [14:44:19] @zeefable: but if you'd like to try and need teams, they're yours to use!
  1041. [14:44:19] 2016 xxl cypher: that was fun to watch
  1042. [14:44:21] Coolcodename ^_^: I have no other teams yoo
  1043. [14:44:22] Helios of Sun: I'll try out the Terrapult
  1044. [14:44:24] CreeperClash☎: i wanted to join but i was too late
  1045. [14:44:27] Helios of Sun: I think it's a cool team
  1046. [14:44:28] @t04ster: mish
  1047. [14:44:31] Gfazzo: imma test the cele chomp
  1048. [14:44:32] 2016 xxl cypher: i will use the brainless that yuki gave me
  1049. [14:44:39] Toastest: cool. free teams
  1050. [14:44:40] @zeefable: one more announcement i guess lol
  1051. [14:44:45] Toastest: thx for the workshop
  1052. [14:45:03] @zeefable: I'll be stepping down from room mod after today. thanks everyone for making this room really awesome to contribute to
  1053. [14:45:04] @zeefable: :)
  1054. [14:45:05] #AM: good job guys
  1055. [14:45:18] #Yellow Paint: love you zee <3
  1056. [14:45:20] @yuki ♪: <3
  1057. [14:45:24] Br0Sk1llz: <3
  1058. [14:45:25] #AM: /announce thanks for everyone contributing and joining workshop.
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