SHARE
TWEET

Mikey's SNC ideas [4/12/2015]

mikey76500 Apr 12th, 2015 (edited) 32 Never
Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
  1. So, lately as some regulars know, I've been babysitting my niece a lot, lately. [I'm getting paid for it, so 'no' isn't an option]. However, I always made sure that I didn't miss a Sunday Night Chat. I was late for one, 2 or 3 weeks ago, for the first time, but, I've still yet to MISS one in 7 months of being here. I came back to last week's Sunday Night Chat with an Energy Capsule [Contributor/Moderator status], and a brand spanking new update thread to read, courtesy of Adrian. Tuesday was the first real chance I had to read the whole thing, and rather than post my feelings about it, there, I plan on posting it in my Permanent Ideas thread in the General section, since there ARE alternate ideas in it, and plenty of them. PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS PASTEBIN IN THE ACTUAL CHAT; THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME FOR YOU TO READ IT, AND THEN ASK ME 13 QUESTIONS ABOUT IT, *AND* HAVE ME ANSWER THEM ALL WITHOUT EXTENDING THIS CHAT ANOTHER 45-60 MINUTES. Post any concerns, questions, discussions, alternative solutions or otherwise in my Permanent Ideas thread in the General section of the Community, pleaseandthankyou.
  2.  
  3. Oh--please don't respond with the normal "you complain too much" and "it's not your game" stuff. Say what you will about me being a 'downer' or a 'complainer' or a 'killjoy'; I don't complain without giving an alternate solution. If you're not willing to do the same, then you won't be positively contributing to the discussion. At all.
  4.  
  5. With that, let's get this party started. I'll be posting my response to each of the 21 subjects of Adrian's Update Thread, one at a time, starting from the top, and finishing with the 4 "Immediate Changes" that he and Boss posted afterwards. I'll then finish up with an likely controversial ideas of my own that I believe may significantly increase how long the mandatory storyline is. Here we go.....
  6.  
  7. ===
  8.  
  9. Subject #1/17: "When will the update be ready/done/complete?"
  10.  
  11. My response: If it's done right, I don't mind waiting for it. Big glaring holes in it, though, so far as I can see. We'll address these one subject at a time, though.
  12.  
  13. ===
  14.  
  15. Subject #2/17: "Is the stat thing still happening? No more 9999?"
  16.  
  17. My response: I'm still wondering how in the world a bot starts with 595 HP to begin with. The caps on Lv. 1 make no sense; how do you tack on 495 HP to a robot's starting 100 THAT early? The increased HP numbers at Lv. 100 actually make battles longer, though [in theory], so, I'm for it.
  18.  
  19. ===
  20.  
  21. Subject #3/17: "We're still getting alternate outfits... right?"
  22.  
  23. My response: I couldn't care less about this. I really, REALLY couldn't.
  24.  
  25. .....all right, fine. The costumes won't matter because they don't do anything. These could replace Star Force stat boosting mechanics and make certain types of attacks stronger, or replace holding mechanics to allow them to use different attacks [without the WE cost decreases, of course]. Or--even better--do BOTH, and make both holding AND Star Force mechanics moot! Currently, they do NOTHING, though, besides produce possible eye candy, and let's face it, no bot looks sweeter than Roll or Disco. I'm sorry, that's just a fact of life: Women have always looked better than us. :P
  26.  
  27. I will admit though, that the ideas for using alt costumes as v2/v3/v4/v? versions of RM's [and maybe bosses?] is a good idea: You could use the grayscale alt for any Level 100 Bots, I suppose. Still, though, this is Adrian Marceau we're talking about. He doesn't need an alt to pull that off; he haz maaaad programmin' skillz.
  28.  
  29. Too bad about Tron, though. =(
  30.  
  31. ===
  32.  
  33. Subject #4/17: "What about the shop, then? Will anything be new there?"
  34.  
  35. My response: See, this is why you need to be using your Turn to use an item. We're gonna have items that can restore percentages of the 4 stats, making boss stat-decreasing moves almost meaningless. That aside, though, I was really pushing for evenly splitting items between the 3 shops, and unlocking them to buy as you move forward: Kalinka is meaningless after you buy all possible stages, and Reggae is meaningless after you get all possible Abilities. You have to go and buy 99 of EVERY item--which, by the way, I'll actually be able to do come the update--before Auto can currently be made meaningless, and even then, you can use ONE item, and Auto can then, theoretically become minimally useful, again. This is why, #1: Items, Abilities and Fields should be split evenly between the 3 shops, and #2: Why the item copy caps should be NINE, instead of NINETY-nine [who's using 99 of ANYTHING in one fight in this game?].
  36.  
  37. Long story short, diversity--more than anything else--was needed, here.
  38.  
  39. ===
  40.  
  41. Subject #5/17: "Okay, so Auto is getting new items. What about Reggae?"
  42.  
  43. My response: Now, this is a bit of a paradox: he sells you good zenny for your cores only to TAKE IT FROM YOU for new abilities?
  44.  
  45. Yeah, no. This wouldn't be needed if enemies dropped Zennies. Actual Zennies. Not just SCREWS. Zennies.
  46. Here's an idea. Allow Reggae to be an item synthesis guy. You can unlock recipes for different Abilities as you move forward and gain BP in the game, and when you have all of the required cores for an ability recipe, he makes it for you free of charge using those cores. The abilities can be better and better [and require more cores] the higher your BP gets, you follow? I still say the Abilities should be spread out as evenly as possible amongst the 3 shops, though.
  47.  
  48. ===
  49.  
  50. Subject #6/17: "About those robot cores... Didn't you say something about 'Core Guard'?"
  51.  
  52. My response: I'll say it FOR Adrian, then. It was me. *I* metaphorically woke him up on this one. The thread where I helped him do so [the Winter Update thread] has since been deleted, but, even then, any regular to our Sunday Night Chats has seen the Pastebin he, himself made and posted stating that "Mike was right.....sort of".
  53.  
  54. I basically just did simple math: Cores were planned to block 0.5% of damage from an element for each copy of it in your possession. 99 x 0.5 = 49.5. 100 - 49.5 = 50.5% damage. 50.5% of an attack that did even only 20,000 damage would have still OHKO'd any playable bot in the upcoming update, which is VERY easily racked up using weaknesses, DOUBLE weaknesses, Critical Hits, Star Force and Field Multipliers, making this Core Guard system entirely useless.
  55.  
  56. Let it be known that the majority is NOT always right, and that just because something LOOKS awesome, that doesn't automatically make it so. That's a point I'll be reiterating before this Pastebin ends.
  57.  
  58. ===
  59.  
  60. Subject #7/17: "No Core Guard, huh? Will there be any changes to the Robot Cores?"
  61.  
  62. My response: Oh, for crying out loud, Adrian, NO. That makes 2 attacks possible in every single Turn WITHOUT EVER HAVING ANY KIND OF STATUS CHANGE INFLUENCING IT. Remember, you can hold 99 of every single one of the 20 cores in the game, as it currently stands.
  63.  
  64. I've said plenty of times that Cores should probably be nixed, as well, since they're in the same boat with Star Force. You'll see what I mean about that as you scroll down some more.
  65.  
  66. ===
  67.  
  68. Subject #8/17: "Okay, and what about those Mecha Shards I heard about? How do they play into this?"
  69.  
  70. My response: Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.
  71.  
  72. Mechas are gonna drop the whole universe before they ever drop a single Zenny, aren't they? This makes Energy Pellets, Weapon Pellets, Small Screws, Score Balls, and now these "Mecha Shards" as the list of possible drops, and this is just the possible list for MECHAS. Robot Masters currently include EVERY OTHER COLLECTIBLE ITEM IN THE GAME--INCLUDING YASHICHIS if you throw Lv. 100 Robot Masters into the mix--AS A POSSIBLE DROP, and THEY don't drop Zennies, either.
  73.  
  74. This is just another bad idea all around, actually; you just make Cores--and therefore Abilities--easier to get ahold of, this way. Besides, as it currently stands, you have a 50% chance of a Robot Master dropping a Core when you beat it with a super-effective attack. This includes Copy Cores for Mega Man, Bass and Proto Man, as well as Neutral Cores for Roll, Disco, Rhythm, Enker, Punk AND Ballade.
  75.  
  76. Replace these 'Shards' with Zennies. Just plain out and out Zennies. I propose that the Zenny an opponent possibly drops should be the equivalent of 15% of that enemy's total Attack-Defense-Speed stats. This means that the Met would currently have a chance of dropping 22.5z, while Cosmo Man would currently have a chance of dropping 213z. This allows Zenny to have a chance of sloooooooooowly climbing up without having to sell everything you have for it, and since it's a CHANCE of Zenny dropping, and not a guarantee, this won't automatically guarantee a Yashichi in 5 battles [though, you can get that in LESS by selling Screws and Cores].
  77.  
  78. ===
  79.  
  80. Subject #9/17: "Wait, what? Robots can hold items now? Like in Pokémon?"
  81.  
  82. My response: I'm not the biggest fan of this mechanic, seeing as how we already can hold 99 copies of every single collectible in the entire game. It's sad, too, because these effects are completely legit. They look like they'd work and work well.....if the copy cap was 9. But with a Yashichi being held by a Lv. 100 Mega Man as he enters battle, he can actually have up to 11,900 HP, and be able to refill it COMPLETELY--AND at will--up to 99x in a fight, with no Turns being used with every Yashichi being used. This has the potential to make every mandatory Boss in the game a joke.
  83.  
  84. Long story short, if this mechanic exists, the 99 items cap has to go. If BOTH stay, the mandatory storyline becomes a guaranteed cakewalk.
  85.  
  86. ===
  87.  
  88. Subject #10/17: "Aren't some of these new mechanics a little overpowered?"
  89.  
  90. My response: As I think I've shown, yes. Also, I'm still waiting for the Level Playing Field [my idea to make all Player Battles take place on a Field where all Field Multipliers start at x1] to REALLY make Player Battles legit.....
  91.  
  92. ===
  93.  
  94. Subject #11/17: "Yes! Star Force is broken! What are you doing to fix it?!"
  95.  
  96. In case you're confused, or you don't know precisely how I feel about Star Force, let me make myself perfectly clear: My opinion of Star Force is that it needs to either be completely removed as a stat booster and be used for something else entirely, or it needs to [preferably] be taken out of Prototype altogether, so that a whole bunch of space can be freed up for Adrian to use for things that actually IMPROVE gameplay, instead of making chains of systems meant to keep ONE system from breaking the game in every conceivable way.
  97.  
  98. Every possible idea thought of for implementing and/or fixing Star Force as a stat boosting mechanic has been broken in some way, shape, form, fashion, sense, magnitude or dimension WITHOUT FAIL, and in my opinion, Adrian's glorious creation [Prototype] will never REALLY be an enjoyable challenge with the Star Force system in place as a stat booster. I just keep making futile ideas for it in the hope that we might actually find a stable Star Force stat boosting mechanic to work with, but, with just under 10,000 of them being planned for Prototype, and possibly more on the way if Adrian suddenly decides to include more playables, It's impossible for even Adrian's 1337 programming skills to truly keep a lid on it. Impossible.
  99.  
  100. That said, let me go to my response to this: Every mental calculation I've done in my head suggests that this new Star Force Stat-boosting idea will make the mandatory storyline even easier than it already is. Since Adrian himself has confirmed that Star Force will be available in the mandatory storyline in future updates, there's the possibility that the racked up defense of a certain type will make mandatory Bosses easier. As of this Pastebin, there's at least one mandatory or optional Boss planned for no fewer than NINETEEN of the 20 playable types in the game, so, there can be no denying that this new Star Force stat boosting mechanic will affect the difficulty of at least a FEW of those Bosses, even on the planned Hard difficulty setting.
  101.  
  102. I'm not a fan, if you can't tell, already. This makes the mandatory storyline easier, and possibly makes Player Battles last TOO long, too. I'm all for making them longer, but, not so long as to force weak Neutral-Type attacks nonstop for 30+ Turns.
  103.  
  104. Here's how I KNOW Star Force needs to be removed:
  105.  
  106. ===
  107.  
  108. Subject #12/17: "And what about those Dark Elements? Are they still a thing?"
  109.  
  110. ...because Adrian has to make a completely separate mechanic to try to rein in Star Force.
  111.  
  112. My response: I said it when Adrian first announced Dark Elements, and I'll say it again, here; Dark Elements so massively overcomplicate things that it's not even funny. They're made to rein in Star Force, but, what Adrian doesn't realize is that between the not-quite-random Critical Hits [which allows the game to dole out double damage when it feels like it], Weaknesses, DOUBLE Weaknesses, Field Multipliers [which can be VERY much played with and made increased to outrageous levels], and the necessary weakening of the Frags and Spires to accommodate the fact that Neutral-type attacks are the weakest kind of attacks in the entire game [if they're too difficult to destroy, the game becomes impossible to beat without spamming 18,000 Yashichis], and you have a game that's trying TOO hard to BE hard.
  113.  
  114. Increasing Prototype's difficulty is so much more simple than throwing in these.....things to overcomplicate matters, and I truly believe that it starts with either completely eliminating Star Force as a whole, or--at the very least--making Star Force ANYTHING other than a stat boosting mechanic. Granted, I believe that Star Force should be completely nixed, but, I can also think of so many different things that Star Force can be used for besides increasing stats: unlocking stages, progressing storyline and storyline+, unlocking characters, unlocking alts: unlocking optional Bosses, unlocking new abilities, etc, etc, etc. There is no doubt in my mind that Adrian has thought of most of these, and almost ANY of them would be better than trying to make them stat boosters. If Adrian suddenly announced that he was doing away with the current Prototype and starting again from scratch, only withOUT a Star Force, I STILL wouldn't mind--that's how broken Star Force makes this game. Seriously.
  115.  
  116. Any way that makes Dark Elements [and Star Force as a stat boosing mechanic, while we're at it] nonexistent would be a step in the right direction, in my book--this game is easy enough as it is.
  117.  
  118. ===
  119.  
  120. Subject #13/17: "Will the Mecha Support ability be any less useless?"
  121.  
  122. My response: MS 2 and MS 3 are redundant. Adrian has previously shown in image teases that v2 and v3 Mechas are being done away with, sooooooooooo.......
  123.  
  124. I'm not a fan of using Mechas, anyway. Maybe Mecha Support will be useful later on when Adrian finally decides that not every Mecha in the game has to be a laughingstock in the stats department.
  125.  
  126. ===
  127.  
  128. Subject #14/17: And what about Field Support? Will that change?
  129.  
  130. My response: Oh, boy. Field Support. I never was a fan of this puppy, here. It enforces laziness: If something's hard, and you don't care about BP, you can just use Field Support to crank a Field Multiplier up to x4 or x5 [or DOWN to x0.2 or x0.3] and go to town, and that's freaking ridiculous. It has the potential to ruin the mandatory storyline all by itself, the way it currently works, and Prototype darn sure doesn't need 3 of it, let alone 1.
  131.  
  132. Just nix it. Code it as something else, if needed, just don't leave this in as it currently is.
  133.  
  134. ===
  135.  
  136. Subject #15/17: Are experience points or the leveling system being changed in any way?
  137.  
  138. My response: Now, THIS, I ALMOST completely agree with. Almost.
  139.  
  140. I still believe that the level cap should be increased, somewhat [to be different from all the other 'you can never go beyond Level 100' RPG's out there], but, that aside, this works. Or at the very least, it SHOULD.
  141.  
  142. ===
  143.  
  144. Subject #16/17: What about the other Robot Master Fields? I see ones for Crystal Man and Jewel Man, but what about the others?
  145.  
  146. My response: Not many people realize how GALACTICALLY difficult it is for Adrian to program a Field. You have your background graphics, your foreground, making sure the bots are positioned right, making sure that the Mechas in the background AND foreground don't look ridiculous, and don't get me started on all the moving parts, like in Metal Man's Stage. It's harder than it looks, folks. WAY harder.
  147.  
  148. I personally believe that Adrian should focus on characters that will be in Prototype for sure before making stages for characters that even HE doesn't know for sure will be in or not. I wouldn't lose sleep over being forced to fight every Crystal-type RM in the game on Gemini Man's stage; there's bigger problems to tackle in this here game.
  149.  
  150. ===
  151.  
  152. Subject #17/17: About the Boss Database? Will any of the robots in it be unlockable?
  153.  
  154. My response: Thank. You. Adrian. Making the Killers Boss characters is EASILY a controversial move on Adrian's part, which makes me wonder why he's so reluctant to do other potentially controversial moves [like remove Star Force as a stat booster, removing the Dark Elements, lowering item copy cops from 99 to 9, make Robot Master HP and WE stats more varied, etc.] to improve Prototype AND make work on it easier on himself without care of what the fanbase wants--Prototype would be hyper easy, hyper boring and hyper-ridiculous [in a bad way] if Adrian did what the general "I want Zero in the game!" fans want.
  155.  
  156. As I said earlier, the majority is NOT always right.
  157.  
  158. ===
  159.  
  160. Immediate Change #1/4: Roll, Disco, and Rhythm now have a base WE of 15 instead of the usual 10. They are and will be the only unlockable robot masters to have this distinction and I believe it will further solidify their role as support robots in the game. Boost, break, and swap away my friends!
  161.  
  162. My response: This is all well and good, but, they still don't have any moves that are just their own, and they're still jokes both to play as and to fight against.
  163.  
  164. Also, what's so wrong about other robots having varying WE levels? You got your 10's, yeah, but, How come some can't have 11 and others can't have 9 and some can't have 12 and others can't have 8?
  165.  
  166. ===
  167.  
  168. Immediate Change #2/4: Target robots in Player Battles are now hidden until the fight starts and appear as dark, generic robots instead. No longer will you be able to select your opponent's weaknesses and gain the advantage before the battle has even begun, instead needing to rely on other strategies. Will you select your strongest? Your most versatile? Your most defensive or speedy? It's a long way from making Player Battles as balanced as they'll be in the update, but it's a start - right?
  169.  
  170. My response: .....sort of. I can still tilt things in my favor in a couple of ways, but, you won't truly have balance with Field Multipliers being anything other than x1 [coughcoughLevelPlayingFieldcoughcoughcough].
  171.  
  172. ===
  173.  
  174. Immediate Change #3/4: Effective immediately, Rain Flush now damages all other robots on the field just like it's description has suggested the entire time. The only robots that will not be affected by the Rain Flush damage are the user and any benched robots that have affinities or immunities to the Water type. Now the ability is much closer to the double-edged sword that is "Surf" from the Pokémon series (which is what I had imagined for the ability in the first place). Rain Flush can still be exploited by bringing in a specific team, but much less so than before. Enjoy (or not)!
  175.  
  176. My response: Rain Flush is now GALACTICALLY unwieldy and nearly impossible to use effectively. If an enemy Toad Man uses it in a mandatory battle/Bonus Field, the player gets no stat increases from any enemy bots that die via it. Also, considering how overpowered it is when the user has all of the Water Stars, it's also nearly impossible to use without severely damaging [or even OHKOing] members of your own team.
  177.  
  178. In short, I was expecting a weaker version of RF, not THIS. THIS is impossible to use. Have you tried using a Rain Flush with an attack power of 4 or 6 or 8 or 10, yet? Or better yet, a Rain Flush that has an accuracy of 80-85%?
  179.  
  180. ===
  181.  
  182. Immediate Change #4/4: Take a peek at Chapter 2 and Chapter 4? See something different? That's right, the multipliers have been modified! The range for multipliers now are in between 1.5-0.5, making these chapters a little bit easier to progress through for new players! So if someone like Fire Man has been giving you trouble, feel free to head back to Steel Mill and give Fire Man a heck of a fight! Please note that in the future, these multipliers will experience slight changes, so do not be alarmed. These values will also be slightly modified in the Update through the use of Easy/Hard mode, so please keep that in mind! Besides that, enjoy the new multipliers and kick those Robot Masters out of their fields!
  183.  
  184. My response: I originally gave an idea of Multipliers going up as you progress through the game when I first came here. Maybe x1.5 as the max in MM1 and MM2 fields, then x1.6 in MM3 and MM4 fields, then x1.7 in MM5 and MM6 fields, x1.8 in MM's 7 and 8, x1.9 in MM's 8.5 and 9, and x2 in MM10. You know, an INCREASING DIFFICULTY CURVE AS YOU GO THROUGH THE GAME so that it's not treating you like a beginner from start to finish?
  185.  
  186. .....strange and weird idea, I know. Everyone likes easy stuff. :P
  187.  
  188. ===
  189.  
  190. My personal idea: What if, instead of the 3 doctors having 3 different storylines, the game allowed you to CHOOSE which doctor you wanted to play as before entering a mission?
  191.  
  192. Say that Chapters 1-3 of Light's Storyline went like normal--you beat the Met, you beat the MM1 bots, you just got finished beating Bass and Disco and unlocking Wily, badabingbadaboom. Instead of branching out and making Wily have his own storyline, what if the game was one smoooooth, fluent storyline? What if you could fight each of the MM2 bots with any combination of your unlocked bots, and with either Light OR Wily heading them up. You want your team to have more Defense? Or more attack power? Which would better fit each situation?
  193.  
  194. Beat the MM2 bots, and you'd face Cossack: Which doctor and bots would be a better fit against a Speed-boosted Proto Man and Rhythm?
  195.  
  196. Unlock Cossack, and you then have all 3 doctors to choose from for every mission from there on out; Which of the MM4 bots would be too slow to out-act a Cossack-led team? Which ones would be made toast by the increased Defense of a Light-led team? Which ones would shrivel up under the onslaught of a Wily-led team?
  197.  
  198. What about the MM3 bots? or the MM5 bots? or the MM6 ones? What about the Killers? Or the Stardroids? or the Dark Man bots?
  199.  
  200. Eventually, instead of having the same 3-5 Final Destination stages for each doctor, There'd be one line of them to go through. also, with just ONE storyline, you won't need THREE pages of everything: ONE set of Intro Stages, ONE set of Final Destination stages, ONE set of Bonus Fields, ONE set of Abilities [so that you don't have to buy the same ability from Reggae THREE times], etc, etc.
  201.  
  202. More space for Adrian to put in other stuff, like more optional Bosses, and more levels in the mandatory storyline, too; MM's 3, 5 and 6 WON'T have to be optional extras, this way.....possibly. Programming's a fickle little so-and-so, sometimes.
  203.  
  204. Also, imagine how cerebral this would make Player Battles/Player Missions: Which doctor and army would be the best fit against a team that you know absolutely NOTHING about? :P
  205.  
  206. ===
  207.  
  208. So, there you go. As I always say, disagree all you want, but, do so correctly; Post in the Permanent Ideas Thread in the General section. No flaming, and please remember: there's no alternate *discussion* if you don't have an alternate *solution*.
  209.  
  210. Thanks for reading,
  211. Mike.
RAW Paste Data
We use cookies for various purposes including analytics. By continuing to use Pastebin, you agree to our use of cookies as described in the Cookies Policy. OK, I Understand
 
Top