DCSS 0.23 "Elliptic" Streak Game #28: HuAK^Lugonu (Part 1) [DUNGEON CRAWL STONE SOUP]
Malcolm Rose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zotAwKJIK44&list=PLDaRV3E1ecibDeKDyvFUCYOKMPcO3FKLl&index=70

He's been weak and struggling the whole game. Messing around with sbl instead of real weapons.

@1:32:13 "...falchion, which is a really bad starting weapon in my opinion compared to spear."
Doesnty> "I really liked the argument that falchions are better than spears because they require more skill for mindelay."
MR> "That was my favorite part, Doesnty, that was the part where I genuinely started to get annoyed. It's like, oh yeah, it's better to have a higher mindelay. Uh huh. Tell me more. Tell me more of your theories on DCSS."

That's the sort of dismissive attitude I like to see from the overrated DCSS elite.

Why starting falchion > spear

Higher mindelay means the weapon stays viable longer if no superior replacement is found. Once a weapon hits mindelay its training priority drops to secondary, which is bad if that's your primary weapon. This is relevant if one spends enchant weapon scrolls on it as well. The higher base damage of falchion vs spear also keeps the former relevant longer, against increasing monster AC.

Switching weapon skills is expensive in the early game, so the long-term viability of a starting weapon is important. Ideally it should be able to last through Orc:2, where one is guaranteed to find shops.

Morever, polearms have a weaker weapon progression than lbls, with fewer early game choices. If no trident drops, one's out of luck. Lbls have long sword and scimitar. I'd have to look at objstat, but I suspect they're more common. Certainly sbl are more common early, which lbl crosstrains with.

Lbl's riposte scales as the character's EV often increases, whereas polearm's "free hit" declines in proportional value, and vanishes entirely once the lbl user has found a sling, which is a substitute for the reaching attack. This makes spear a poor choice unless one has allies to fight behind, or other special circumstances apply.

In general, fsim of XL1 starting weapon vs adder is a good guide for which to pick. Results don't change much by monster that early.

For example, fsim adder vs XL1 HuAK falchion vs spear:
spear aed 1.4 acc 46
falchion aed 1.6 acc 42%

Falchion edges out spear, but that's not the decisive factor. AK weapons start +1, so it's going to last him longer than the typical +0 starting weapon. Therefore it's important that the weapon skill have longevity, and on that metric lbl >> poles.

Moreover, HuAK's Dex vs Str is balanced, so he should keep a solid EV score for ripostes, maybe even do some stabbing.

There's an argument to be made for AK reach polearming with Bend Space, and that's one of the reasons OgAK should go polearms, but for multiple reasons this isn't the best strat for HuAK. The main one is that Hu Slings aptitude is fine and therefore that's what HuAK will use with Bend Space, freeing him to choose the stronger starting weapon.

@1:33:56 "Of course you want your character to be mistake-resistant, but that's not the kind of mistake you should be making. There's no excuse for that, because it's a very slow-moving problem. Like if you're skilling incorrectly you need to learn to skill properly."

Malcolm is endlessly quotable. Kek.

@1:34:36 ManMan explained (poorly) to Malcolm why a higher mindelay is better, but Malcolm rejected it, and argued for skilling past mindelay. Real braintrust there.

@1:36:13
Doesnty> "[quoting me] "falchion reaches mindelay at a higher skill than spear, and I suspect this is true of longblades in general. Higher mindelay skill means one can get more melee power out of the weapon before the incentive to invest XP is cut 1/3 to 1/2 by reaching mindelay" these were his words"
ManMan> "Okay, he's just retarded and I was being too generous."

Idiots. Falchion and spear get the same speed improvement per SL. Higher weapon SL increases weapon power.

If one finds a trident, its mindelay is SL14, same as long sword and scimitar. Trident and long sword are nearly identical. A huge gap remains in base damage, however, between scimitar and trident, which becomes increasingly significant. This is particularly problematic since Polearms doesn't crosstrain with Maces, the natural counter to high AC. Meanwhile lbl has sbl to deal e.g. venom damage through extreme AC.

Polearms crosstrains with Staves, and quarterstaff has 10 base damage, 1 more than trident and long sword. This solves the AC problem for most of early Dungeon. 10 base damage is lacking by Lair and Orc, though, and 2h interferes with a shield, which one hopes to find by around then.

Thus a polearm start usually requires more diffuse melee skilling than a lbl start, right around the statistically most-lethal XL. It sounds bad because it is.

@1:38:12 Clueless weapon mindelay discussion continues between ManMan and Doesnty.

@1:40:44 Doesnty> "Would it be bullying to pin that falchion post"
MR> "I could get behind that. It's his words. If he stands behind them, if he won't retract them, then I don't see how it's bullying to put that on the..."

@1:41:16 On me: "Like if he wasn't so unbelievably confident in his ignorance I wouldn't be so inclined to mess with him. I mean, it is frustrating to get this holier than thou advice from somebody who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about."

The DCSS elites are the ones posturing about their superior moral virtue. All I did was state my opinions about the game. The hypocrisy is rank.

(S2S or Reanimated) + Inner Flame + Teleport Other = carpet bombing

@1:54:01 Still sucking in D11, trying to kill stuff with a disto dagger and a +2 venom dagger.

@2:03:11 "We got a [+4] scimitar of flaming, that's something that I can finish the game with, I guess, if we really want to go longblades, which, I don't." Still running around Orc:2 with a +2 venom dagger like an idiot. 15 AC, 17 EV, argues for ripostes.

Instead of the +4 scimitar of flaming, chose a +0 broad axe which he will enchant to +2. Retarded.
Also has a +7 morningstar freeze Int+4 he dropped. Bizarre.
@2:08:40

Disto dagger's +3. If he wants to play around with daggers, should go lbl, obviously.

ManMan> "Brand the axe with disto when you get 6*"
MR> "That is the plan"
@2:09:15

Unnecessary, since can Bend Space out of surround. Should bless quickblades instead, for tough single targets.

@2:26:00 Using the +2 broad axe for his 1v1 fights, except when he uses the +2 venom dagger. Nutty.

Gary_Burton = bhauth = bcrawl author
definitely not good enough to lead a replacement to mainline

@2:29:04 MR> Trolls are bad in extended.
Wrong. Just go Kiku.
MR> Demigod is bad in extended.
If he misses both statue form and necromut, he would need to go for the Orb. But how common is that?

@2:31:12 STGMOTO> "it seems like dg in general is just bad"
MR> "Yeah it's terrible. I hate that species. Really really horribly poorly designed. Just hilariously joke-tier bad. Hard to believe anybody could look at that and think, 'Well, this is really well balanced and fun to play.'"

DgTm is essential, OP and fun.

@3:02:20 MR complaining about my assertion that falchion > spear vs kobold with short sword on HuAK.
Let's test it.
spear start: acc 56 aed 1.5
falchion start: acc 53 aed 1.6 (varies 1.5 to 1.7)
(/ .1 1.5) falchion 6-8% better than spear for that fight.

The AK's +1 weapon enchant reduces the falchion's proportional advantage. On a warper, the difference is more dramatic:
spear: acc 53 aed 1.2
falchion: acc 51 1.35
(/ .15 1.2) .125

Normally, falchion is 12.5% better than spear. This sounds small, but is noticeable when fighting monsters, because small marginal differences in weapon power lead to a big difference in post-fight HP, because what matters is your aed minus the monster's. The short sword kobold's aed was about .8, so the relevant % improvement is actually:

spear aed advantage = (- 1.2 .8) .4
falchion aed advantage = (- 1.35 .8) .55

falchion improvement over spear = (/ .55 .4) 1.375

37.5% improvement is certainly something a human player can notice organically, even without fsim. Which is why I believed falchion > spear before I ever used fsim.

I was dismissive of Malcolm's screenshot because it's silly to complain about a kobold with a short sword in the starting vault. Goblins and kobolds are standard D1 enemies. I didn't read the combo background or log text. I just pointed out that he'd chosen a weaker starting weapon, which was true.

@3:14:14 STGMOTO> "leo just said he'll never streak under gammafunk's branch"
MR> He's talking about mainline, STG. And that is a respectable position I suppose. But maybe he could at least get one like win, so people could take him a little less as a joke."

Because there's so little agreement on the meta, they have no way of telling whether someone's advice is sound other than personal authority by play record. They cannot judge the meme, only the man.

Meanwhile MR can't 1v1 an anaconda at XL17 cuz he's using a +2 broad axe. And discarded that unrandart freezing morningstar which would've slowed snakes.

@3:20:09 MR> Has anybody ever managed to figure out exactly what an essential combo is supposed to be, because I don't actually know still
Doesnty> It's a combo leo thinks is cool
ManMan> It's his totally objective list of combos chosen at his whim

Clueless. I shouldn't have worried about giving away secrets. The way is shut; the dim keep it.

24 backgrounds, 25 gods, 27 species, and they never thought there might be a pattern, an emergent order, something built by an entire community striving towards game balance? Sad. Maybe they never grew crystals as a kid, or smoked too many of them as teens.

@3:28:16 All mocking concept of essential combos. Excellent.

The best way to secure sole credit for an innovation is to make it look like an erroneous challenge to the status of the current elite. Victory has a 100 fathers, but defeat is an orphan.