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JaysonSunshine

DeepThought's willful resistance on evidence against theism

JaysonSunshine
Oct 21st, 2019
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  1. DeepThought 20:23:11
  2. i didnt ask you LaZeR, i asked Sara_Ks
  3. +maxxiii 20:23:30
  4. it's a lot, that's why it's so important to spread the message DeepThought
  5. DeepThought 20:23:31
  6. i know your pov
  7. +maxxiii 20:23:36
  8. people need to have a choice
  9. LaZeR 20:23:56
  10. Sara_Ks is it raining in Florida right this minute?
  11. DeepThought 20:24:06
  12. maxxiii yes but even today people never hear the word of god, and they just go directly to hell? is that a just god?
  13. +maxxiii 20:24:10
  14. in my case, I was raised in a false religion too. It's not like you can grow up and not hear about Jesus nowadays, it's practically unheard of.
  15. DeepThought 20:24:23
  16. maxxiii thats false
  17. RachelThompson 20:24:30
  18. There are no gods.
  19. Why do you still debate this topic?
  20. Science hasn't taken theism seriously since about 1830.
  21. It's currently 2019.
  22. LaZeR 20:25:15
  23. Sara_Ks - you deflected like xians often do - try again: is it raining in Florida right this minute?
  24. RachelThompson coz christians are suffereing
  25. suffering
  26. RachelThompson 20:26:21
  27. Relevance?
  28. LaZeR 20:26:46
  29. reason for topic
  30. RachelThompson 20:26:51
  31. LaZeR: Sara_Ks has a long history of being a dishonest human being.
  32. In my view, she is excluded from the Community of Consideration.
  33. But, feel free to bash your head against that wall for awhile.
  34. LaZeR: Theism is resolved in regards to an explanatory framework.
  35. LaZeR 20:27:45
  36. Sara_Ks - you deflected like xians often do - try again: is my TV on right this minute?
  37. RachelThompson 20:27:55
  38. Theism remains interesting as a topic in psychology, anthropology, and evolution.
  39. LaZeR 20:29:22
  40. ok well that's my answer for the question you asked me
  41. that's irrelevant - if i look at my tv i KNOW if it's on or off
  42. no one can "look" at god and state if he exists or not
  43. Sara_Ks i answered the SAME question a long time ago
  44. you just continue re-phrasing the SAME question differently
  45. DeepThought 20:31:52
  46. Sara_Ks if someone is born lives and dies and never hears the "word of god" can they go to heaven when they die?
  47. LaZeR 20:32:45
  48. this is a TRICK christians often leverage <LaZeR> you just continue re-phrasing the SAME question differently
  49. DeepThought 20:32:50
  50. there is no such thing in humans
  51. RachelThompson 20:32:56
  52. It took me years to get over the psychological pressure I felt from realizing that theists are generally highly confused about their theistic beliefs.
  53. And so I used to debate them a lot.
  54. → UnderCoverNerd has joined
  55. DeepThought 20:33:22
  56. Sara_Ks is this documented in the bible?
  57. RachelThompson 20:33:25
  58. That's sort of how I understand why the two of you are drawn to to engaging Sara_Ks on this topic.
  59. ⓘ IL_Shaman gives voice to UnderCoverNerd
  60. RachelThompson 20:33:33
  61. Even though by multiple metrics she is highly objectionable.
  62. LaZeR 20:33:33
  63. Sara_Ks this is a DEPARTURE from christianity <Sara_Ks> DeepThought I would think God knows their heart and what they would do. Example, Moses, Abraham. Elijah, and other prophets did not hear of Jesus, likely they are in heaven
  64. RachelThompson 20:34:12
  65. Part of you isn't ready to accept that theists are a different sub-species of humans who live in an entirely different cognitive reality.
  66. That's hard for you to parse, I think, given that you're pretty confident we live in an atheistic reality.
  67. Theism is an evolved behavioral, social, and cognitive adaptation to promote group cohesion.
  68. That's it.
  69. There's nothing fancier going on there.
  70. Things like Christianity are cultural systems that build off evolutionary impulses in our species to somewhat formalize our instincts on relationships, justice, etc.
  71. That's it.
  72. That's what the Bible is doing.
  73. DeepThought 20:35:47
  74. i tend to believe theism is just that but i still have no evidence that gods dont exist, yet
  75. RachelThompson 20:35:57
  76. You don't have evidence that gods don't exist.
  77. That is a very strange thing to say.
  78. → WorldWidePants has joined
  79. RachelThompson 20:36:13
  80. It's consistent with scientific realism.
  81. ⓘ IL_Shaman gives voice to WorldWidePants
  82. RachelThompson 20:36:17
  83. Are you not a scientific realist?
  84. ⓘ WorldWidePants is now known as VaN-HaGaR
  85. +VaN-HaGaR 20:36:25
  86. Sara_Ks this is a DEPARTURE from christianity <Sara_Ks> DeepThought I would think God knows their heart and what they would do. Example, Moses, Abraham. Elijah, and other prophets did not hear of Jesus, likely they are in heaven
  87. RachelThompson 20:36:33
  88. DeepThought: The epistemic basis of science is Bayesian inference.
  89. That is, there are distinct models of reality, whose ultimate reality is hidden, and we collect evidence to modify the posterior probabilities on those competing models.
  90. DeepThought 20:37:20
  91. RachelThompson i rarely engage in absolutes as as a species we know very little of the natural and scientific worlds
  92. RachelThompson 20:37:20
  93. Any evidence which lowers the probability on theistic models is "evidence against theism".
  94. DeepThought: Which absolutes are you referencing?
  95. DeepThought 20:37:36
  96. maxxiii prove it
  97. RachelThompson 20:37:50
  98. DeepThought: maxxiii is excluded from the community of consideration.
  99. That should be pretty apparent at this point.
  100. DeepThought 20:38:13
  101. absolutes like "there is no god" you are probably right, but you know so little of this universe
  102. RachelThompson 20:38:34
  103. Absolutes are disallowed in Bayesian models.
  104. The probability of theistic models is greater than 0.
  105. It's just so low that *no domain of science using theism as an explanatory framework*.
  106. DeepThought 20:39:03
  107. so i say, " i have seen no evidence that proves to me there is a god, yet"
  108. RachelThompson 20:39:07
  109. Yes, you have.
  110. I just explained that.
  111. Any evidence which lowers the probability on theistic models is "evidence against theism".
  112. So, evidence of the evolution of theism in human minds is evidence against theism.
  113. As it partially explains why there are theistic humans independent of any congruence between their hypothesis and the non-human universe.
  114. That is, they're just explaining their own minds with their theistic models.
  115. That is powerful evidence against theism.
  116. DeepThought: You don't need to take theism particularly seriously, that is, the prior is low.
  117. That is because it's now reasonably understood that theism is just a cognitive pattern and never should have been given much credence as a 'model' of reality.
  118. The only reason that isn't immediately obvious is because you got born into the 20th/21st century where your culture retains a lot of significance to the theistic pattern.
  119. As an explanatory framework, it can almost immediately be discarded in its historical forms.
  120. DeepThought 20:42:16
  121. RachelThompson I dont take theism particularly seriously, but i dont claim i know there is no god
  122. ← QuBit has left (I)
  123. RachelThompson 20:42:32
  124. DeepThought: You appear to be referencing non-scientific epistemology.
  125. Your usage of "know" there seems to point to something like certainty one.
  126. That is disallowed in science, and therefore I don't have that view.
  127. DeepThought 20:42:57
  128. science makes claims and theorys it has evidence for
  129. RachelThompson 20:42:58
  130. Therefore, you're defeating a strawman.
  131. DeepThought 20:43:22
  132. science is often wrong
  133. science has no ego
  134. RachelThompson 20:43:30
  135. I know the posteriors on historical forms of theism is exceedingly low, so low that I discard it and essentially never consider it as a possible model of reality.
  136. DeepThought 20:43:32
  137. science corrects its self
  138. RachelThompson 20:43:35
  139. That's what "knowing" means in science.
  140. So, in that sense, I know there are no gods, which high probability.
  141. But, the high probability is not strictly necessary, as I'm already stated I use scientific epistemology.
  142. Therefore, I know there are no gods.
  143. DeepThought 20:44:33
  144. you assume there are no gods and with zero evidence for gods, thats a safe bet
  145. RachelThompson 20:44:41
  146. That is unbelievable.
  147. DeepThought 20:44:42
  148. but you cannot know
  149. RachelThompson 20:45:18
  150. You're unwilling to learn on this topic at this time, I feel.
  151. You're not really engaging me.
  152. +VaN-HaGaR 20:45:30
  153. there is no measureable, physical, tangible, proof of god
  154. RachelThompson 20:45:37
  155. I just reminded you that all forms of science, since like 1830, haven't considered theism seriously.
  156. And there are currently NO models of reality that are theistic at the cutting edge models of reality.
  157. And you translated that to "you assume".
  158. You both personalized it, and rejected the fact that all forms of science have investigated this topic seriously for 150 years and provided no support for theism.
  159. That is willful anti-intellectualism.
  160. +VaN-HaGaR 20:46:32
  161. RachelThompson that is coz most religions BANNED scienc
  162. e
  163. * 20:46:35
  164. Ignoring DeepThought
  165. RachelThompson 20:46:48
  166. DeepThought: I disengaged from you as a result of that completely indefensible post.
  167. I wish you luck with maxxiii and Sara_Ks
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