mp to ITH

Hi in the hills, first I hope you're doing well knowing that you were busy due to a lot of stuff recently.

Obviously you read the title and you know that we will talk again from the same subject and I understand you might get tired from this discussion again and again but the recent ones were, imo, constructive and we need to continue this way for the Camomons sake.

I will not repeat my arguments in favor of a potential ban of CM in Camomons because there's nothing new, everything is basically in my last post or disseminated between the previous posts. Last post which was very well received by the playerbase and to a more extend by the OMs community aware of the discussion. It means that people understand now my position (which is again, not only mine but also the position of the TL, part of the council and a non-negligible part of the playerbase) compared to the first time and, regardless of the outcome, they think that's a legitimate road to try.

To my knowledge, OMs leaders (OMLs) prohibit a suspect/vote on CM in Camomons for the only reason that there's no precedent. Indeed, we provided many arguments based on the state of the metagame as objectively as possible to define CM as a potentially broken element in Camomons and which need to be addressed.

The aim of these arguments were to provide a solid justification to a potential ban of CM, aware that this kind of ban are not usual.

But, if they're not usual, they're still in agreement with Smogon tiering policy (TP) and especially OMs TP which must be and actually is, a simple extension of the standard TP more applied to OMs (that's why such a ban happens, even if rarely).

This point show that well:

[picture of a screen of the TP in OMs]

The aim of our arguments was to show that CM in Camomons fits in this point of the TP. We know that there's more than 2-4 Pokémon banned due to CM and there's still Pokémon that may be broken due to CM and probably too unhealthy regardless. The TP is made to make metagame balanced and enjoyable. That's not the metagame which has to bend to some standardization of the TP but the TP which has to adapt to the specificity of each metagame to fulfill its goal while keeping a certain coherence ofc. And the TP is effectively in aggreement with this idea allowing to "make an exception" if needed.

Thus, we provided justification and the TP is definitely not against us. It's all a matter of justification to fit our case in this point and we think we did it properly.

I asked many people going from OMs players, well known players, admin or moderator on Smogon (some before my post and some after) and there's a overall agreement on the fact that, the TP is not against us and thus, it's only a matter of justifying our point properly.

Thus, we think that the argument of "no precedent" supported by the OMLs if out of the debate and cannot be used as a way to prohibit a potential ban of CM in Camomons.

That's why I ask you, again, to free this path and let the community or the council decide if CM should or shouldn't be banned from gen8camomons.


If you still disagree to allow a vote on CM, we will take special measure to make our point known to the higher authorities of Smogon tiering policy and request their arbitration. People from the Smogon's staff recommended this approach to me because considering the current OMs TP, nothing clearly prohibit such a ban. Again, it's all a matter of justification to do so.

I wanted to share this with you so that you don't take the OM leaders for a ride. I don't want this debate for the future of the Camomons metagame become a personal ego fight between the OMLs and me/us knowing that there may have been a personal dimension in this debate especially between us that I regret. I want you to know that we will continue to defend our point with the TP authorities if needed because we think we're not wrong after all and your decision to prohibit the council and the playerbase to decide on CM is unjustified with regard to what really matter here, the TP.

You might think that I overtake my position because I'm not even member of the council of Camomons but I want to let you know that, if I write this post and wrote the previous ones, TNM, the TL, think all the same but is more like A Lazy Man than anything else smh. That's why I take follow this path in particular on its behalf.

You might not understand why come this far considering the future of the Camomons is anw clouded by its removing from teamtours and with no more ladder to develop but, we still passionate people we love Camomons and who will do everything they can for the Camomons sake.

I think that conclude my message. Let me know what you think, if we misunderstood your position or anything else, so we will be able to borrow one or another way. Thanks for your reading.

PS: We're in close contact with TNM so I have exactly the same opinion on your proposition make on the council channel. We will never agree to sideline Camomons because there's no point in sidelining it to allow us to take "special tiering action". We think you're the only ones to see that as "special tiering action" because again, Smogon and OMs TP is not against. So there's no way to resort to such purposes excluding even more the Camomons with regard to the so called "official OMs" that we have been part of.