So here are the logs of the conversation I had with Sean before he soon after permabanned me for making a joke in a "serious thread".

I added some comments to identify and count the logical falacies (LF1-41) that he, Laz, and Vaex uttered until the point when I told them that they debate like children.

To make it clear... the conversation continued endlessly not because I was "forcing" anyone (as if I had any power to do that) to change an ID, but because I couldn't get him to at least understand (or to stop intentionally misrepresenting) what I was saying. I should probably add that my trade or mining chars have never blown up by Xenos for as long as I can remember, and that I didn't ask for the change for me personally (as they keep pretending I do) but because it's part of a larger problem in discovery, which is restrictions which arguably made sense when we had an overpopulation problem, but which now have no more positive effects besides the negative ones.


Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Been raged at so much for telling people to drop all their cargo or die
have had multiple try to explain to me that credit demands would be more reasonable as a xeno

communist squid08.11.2018
everyone knows the counter to a xeno is to spam him with 1 million donations before he even says halt

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I don't fly xenos for money
I fly xenos for blue messages
spamming me money doesn't change that

communist squid08.11.2018
fly xenos to be blue messaged*
that rep will get you whacked

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I dunno
It should
but caps can't kill fighters

Foxglove08.11.2018
Credit demand
Xeno
laughs in extremist

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
it's the most irritating thing in the world to have to explain that if you made a credit demand you'd get sanctioned
cause the reply is invariably "but it would have been better than telling me to drop my cargo"

communist squid08.11.2018
loss of guns and sanction notice in your hold
laugh in denis

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Denis is so nice

communist squid08.11.2018
denis is chill until you are on the receiving end of the admin stick for being idiotic
tbh
should just cargo demand all ore traders
Thats the gallic tactic anyways
since ore is regulated by gallia laws
GRN can just roll into Dublin and shit on the bad indie BMMs

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
It might be wrong
but if I'm allowed to demand cargo
don't think your shitty credit bribe will stop me
I want those materials

communist squid08.11.2018
XEENERS are poor as shit and very redneck

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I'm going to keep pirating those pob suppliers for their RA

communist squid08.11.2018
also no gbs

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
eventually I will have a reinforced ship

Foxglove08.11.2018
My nigga Phil

Karlotta08.11.2018
why is it even forbidden to ask for credits on a xeno
if its that counter-intuitive

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
it's not counter-intuitive...
Xeno's hate foreigners. Unless you decide to shoot liberty corp ships, your only targets are foreigners and lawfuls
why would you allow them in for the low price of a bribe if you hate them?

Phil08.11.2018
@Foxglove swiggety swooty

Foxglove08.11.2018
:100:

VÆX08.11.2018
Hai Phil!

Phil08.11.2018
Sup Vex

VÆX08.11.2018
I cooked some Bacon & Eggs :stuck_out_tongue:
Now checking out what's up in forums

Phil08.11.2018
Cool beans
...or eggs in your case

VÆX08.11.2018
Yeah, gonna get to my pasta later...
Yesterday I experimented with herbs and spices and made a delicious Pasta Bolognese
Ate 3 bowls in a row :smile:

Karlotta08.11.2018
you can rob people you hate, you know?
its a hostile act

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I'd rather act accordingly and not let them in places where I don't want them
which is why its called extremism

Karlotta08.11.2018
you can do that too
most extremists finance their cause by robbing banks
RAF did
NSU did
its just stupid and useless to make something against the rules for no good reason
not only xenos
its the "we gotta nerf this ID or it will be OP" mentality that got that line for xenos in like 2009 or 2010
same mentality was applied to many IDs that people feared would become too popular
now we have lots of IDs nerfed with useless stupid lines

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
"oh no"

Foxglove08.11.2018
From a gameplay pov, the Xenos trade in piracy and caps for the ability to shoot transports without a demand. I do think it is a balancing act. Give the Xenos the ability to pirate and they essentially are better Lane Hackers, who also don't have caps.
It would eliminate distinctiveness between faction IDs.

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Make freelancer freelancers again
that way no one can complain about things not being exactly the same

Karlotta08.11.2018
dont lane hackers have GBs and the Spyglass BS?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
GB yes
bs no
haven't had that for
ages

Karlotta08.11.2018
I though I saw some RP revolving around the spyglass recently
whatever
point is
"nerf this ID so its not better than that ID" is a bad policy
better make the other ID better
like give LH a larger ZOI (for example)

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Wrong
firstly, wrong about how ID's are handled

Karlotta08.11.2018
everywhere where therea are trade lanes, for example

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
secondly, simply buffing id's automatically nerfs other id's

Karlotta08.11.2018
well that's what fox said
no it doesnt

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Sure it does

Karlotta08.11.2018
relatively to player attractivity yes, absolutely no

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
why do you fly GRI and not GRP?

Karlotta08.11.2018
the thing is when you nerf stuff you make the game more unatractive too

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Ok let me explain it simple
If we made LH have a ZOI where ever Lanes are

VÆX08.11.2018
Nerfs and Buffs go hand in hand Karlotta, that equals Balance...

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
That automatically nerfs other ID's
because now the LH are better than them

Karlotta08.11.2018
thats not a real nerf though

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Other ID's are now weaker

Karlotta08.11.2018
a real nerf would keep people from doing stuff

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
you have successfully nerfed by buffing
which is a common thing in gaming these days

Karlotta08.11.2018
in terms of relative attractivity, not absolute attractivity

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
E.G: Riot

Karlotta08.11.2018
if you restrict players, you make not only their faction more unattractive, you make the game more unattractive too
a better trade would be "give both Xenos and LH more rights"

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Good thing there are literally enough ID's to cover all the niches, and failing that, the ability to have an ID added

Karlotta08.11.2018
"nerf both so they are equally unattractive" makes the game worse

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Sorry, but giving people specific things to do isn't a nerf
Am I making the game worse by saying USI shouldn't have battleship access
cause I'm restricting players
I'm the problem


COMMENT: LF1: False Equivalence "giving specific things to do" is not the same as "taking away specific things", which you do when you take away the ability to ask for credits. LF2: False equivalence/strawman. Giving a trade faction that is IRP protected by the LN is not the same as giving an unlawful faction the ability to ask for credits (they can already ask for cargo) from their enemies (or a larger ZOI) and is not what I'm asking for.

Karlotta08.11.2018
forbidding people from robbing them for credits is a nerf, and it's counter intuitive, as has been demonstrated by the fact that people ask for them anyway
you're taking away things to do, not giving it

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I don't ever see Xeno's ask for credits
I've never seen xeno's complain about it


VÆX08.11.2018
^

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
the factions who play xeno's have never had issue with it
thonk
Could it be, that you're complaining about something that isn't an issue?

COMMENT: LF3: Argument from silence: Assuming something isnt true because you havent heard anyone/authority figures say it before


Karlotta08.11.2018
You said:
"Been raged at so much for telling people to drop all their cargo or die
have had multiple try to explain to me that credit demands would be more reasonable as a xeno
...
I don't fly xenos for money
I fly xenos for blue messages
spamming me money doesn't change that

communist squidheute um 07:52 Uhr
fly xenos to be blue messaged*
that rep will get you whacked
...
it's the most irritating thing in the world to have to explain that if you made a credit demand you'd get sanctioned
cause the reply is invariably "but it would have been better than telling me to drop my cargo"

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Yes, but its not the ID or the Xeno's fault that people don't want their power trading interrupted
It's quite clear that the victim wants the rule breach when the xeno wants a kill instead

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm not saying dont allow them to kill the trader
I'm saying dont forbid xenos to ask for credits

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
why

Karlotta08.11.2018
I explained it

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Give me the lore reason

COMMENT: LF4: Moving the goalposts from "gameplay" to "lore".

Karlotta08.11.2018
you nerf not only the ID, but the whole mod

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I mean

Karlotta08.11.2018
extremists need credits to fund their cause. Thats why

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
They get that from liberty(bearbeitet)
I don't need to pirate samura for money when USI funds me under the table already(bearbeitet)
So no, thats not sufficient reasoning to change the lore of xeno's

COMMENT: LF5: False equivalence. Letting Xenos ask for credits in addition to cargo is not "changing the lore" but a small detail (credits in addition to cargo) in one of the means they use to an ends.

Karlotta08.11.2018
but its enough reasoning to make the game less counter intuitive, restricted, and rule-lawyery

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
In your drive to make everything Thanos worthy, you'll remove the uniqueness of the game, and ultimately, return us to the days of Liberty navy flying Wraiths, because without restrictions people will only care about how they can best utilize not having limits
Why would I want to play an Order when Zoners are allowed full shipline access and nomad engagement rights sirius wide?

COMMENT: LF6: "Thanos worthy" ad hominem/apeal to ridicule LF7: Non sequitur/Strawman, Allowing Xenos to ask for credits and giving lane hackers a larger ID does not imply that you have to let Liberty Navy fly wraiths. It's like saying "if we legalize weed we have to legalize crack and I dont want to legalize crack"


Karlotta08.11.2018
liberty flying wraiths is counter-intuitive
xenos asking for credits is not

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Why are you restricting players from flying wraiths
It's a better statted ship
it makes sense for navies to want it

COMMENT: LF8: continues to strawman

Karlotta08.11.2018
plus the official factions and srp people already fly those combos. BAF flying Core stuff for example
becasue irp its built by rheinland and liberty wants its independence

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Are you telling me that there are already way to get around restrictions in the game, long integrated?

Karlotta08.11.2018
thats more of an irp reason than to forbid extremeist for asking for credits to hurt their enemies and finance their cause

COMMENT: "that" refers to liberty wanting a military force that is independent from rheinland

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Again, if Xeno's are largely caused by foreign trade removing liberty jobs, stealing credits from those same foreigners to allow them to pass and trade in liberty has not achieved their stated goal

VÆX08.11.2018
"The Nomad Vagrants/Xeno discussion chat"

Laz08.11.2018
Xeno
: )

VÆX08.11.2018
Zeno

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Zenophobia

Karlotta08.11.2018
it can, if you hurt foreign corps that way, and gain more credits to get the means to hurt them even more

Phil08.11.2018
Xylophone

VÆX08.11.2018
:face_palm:

Laz08.11.2018
Phil you penismonger

Phil08.11.2018
Stfu Laz
U a cuck

Laz08.11.2018
I showed you my RP plz respond

VÆX08.11.2018
How long is your RP?

Karlotta08.11.2018
even isis and taliban dont only kill westerners. They also capture and release them for ransom money

Phil08.11.2018
I'm gonna flash my USB stick

Laz08.11.2018
When the beep goes too deep

VÆX08.11.2018
xD

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Your arguments fail to persuade me as Xeno funding is already covered by their lore.
I don't need to shift my ideology to fund myself when thats being taken care of by people I'm working to protect the jobs of

Karlotta08.11.2018
people have more than one income source?
expecially criminals
you dont need to shift your ideology

VÆX08.11.2018
Well, USI is rich af, they fund pretty nicely :slight_smile:

Laz08.11.2018
Lore = Covered
find a gameplay reason to get your point across

COMMENT: LF9: Moving the goalposts back to gameplay

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I'm sorry that you are more morally loose than criminals and would undermine your goals to achieve more cash to achieve your goals

COMMENT: LF10+LF11: non sequitur+ad hominem falacy, pretending my interpretation of irp criminal behavior and observations of oorp actual criminal behavior is my actual oorp standpoint on morals

Karlotta08.11.2018
you can still use the credits you made to blow up traders in situations where it makes more sense

VÆX08.11.2018
There are LR, LH , indie Pirates, and even UN in Texas for credit demands

Karlotta08.11.2018
but you DONT undermine your goals by asking for cash

VÆX08.11.2018
Xenoes are terrorists
Funded by USI

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Hey Vex gets it

Karlotta08.11.2018
you jsut give yourself another tool to achieve your goals

Laz08.11.2018
Going down your pat of logic, Xenos should be able to demand cash and then kill their targets anyway because muh lore reasons

COMMENT: LF12 Non sequitur/strawman. Lifting an ID restriction does not have to involve being allowed to violate server rules, or lifting them.

Karlotta08.11.2018
no, that would be against rules

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No I don't. By allowing that kusari trader to continue trading, I have compromised the livelihoods of fellow libertonians who can't compete with the import of exotic goods.

Karlotta08.11.2018
you can either make a demand or blow them up

Felsvar08.11.2018
In reality, it would be that way @Laz

Karlotta08.11.2018
its not mutually exclusive

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
As such, I have compromised my goals, and as a result I am not an extremist that would be a xeno
I could rather play a rogue with a case of xenophobia if I wanted to pirate foreigners

Karlotta08.11.2018
but you can ruin his profit, and use his credits to expand your capabilities

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I'd also get gunboats and cruisers that way

COMMENT: LF13: Non sequitur/strawman

Karlotta08.11.2018
taliban do it. isis does it. RAF and NSU did it

Laz08.11.2018
That's my point Felsvar, but we're talking about rules here, and Karlotta is trying to justify rules being changed because of lore.

COMMENT: LF14: strawman/moving goalposts. I was initially justifying changing rules not because of lore, but justifying lifting ID restrictions to make the game less rulelawyery/sanctionbaity, restricted, and sanctionbaity/rulelawyers, and now showing that the (lore) arguments brought forward (after Sean asked to move the goalpost to lore) to justify the restriction are not valid.

VÆX08.11.2018
Karlotta, in one sentence:
"The Xenos are an ultranationalist terrorist group in Liberty who focus on the expulsion of foreigners. They prefer to hit foreign shippers instead of Liberty shippers, and prefer to destroy rather then steal."

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm telling you that nerfing IDs on make-shift lore reasons made sense when we had 200 players every night and more players than factions. Now that we have more factions than players, nerfin IDs like this makes no sense anymore

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Vex, you're not allowed to use lore in this argument. It goes against the concept of making everything the same
It's not a nerf
it's a style of play
play a rogue if you want to pirate for credits
play a xeno if you want to be a extremist
Theres literally nothing stopping you

COMMENT: LF15: Strawman/ridicule: I'm not arguing in favor of making everything the same, I'm arguing of lifting some restrictions which are now counterproductive

Felsvar08.11.2018
Or become none

Laz08.11.2018
Hey Sean, can you grab me that ini file of Alley Station now? :)))

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
asdonapifbnasoi[dbsofgjsf

Felsvar08.11.2018
Chsjdudjeoskdoqkzkdjcnd92oet8dn soxv

Laz08.11.2018
:hearts:

Karlotta08.11.2018
maybe some people like to play a faction because they like its RP, not because they like its rule permissions and cant do the stuff on the RP they actually like

COMMENT: Factions can have different lore backgrounds even if they have the same permissions. That and Xenos and Rogues can still have differences like ZOI and "may blow up transports without demand" even if they can both demand credits

VÆX08.11.2018
Well, exactly why I pasted that...If you want credit demands and piracy, play a Rogue/Hacker or indie pirate...If you want to roleplay an extremist go for 555-ZENOES

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Everytime you ask me for help I delete another of your assets laz
Maybe you can RP without worrying about being optimized
Like the rest of the server

Laz08.11.2018
My assets are infinite

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm not asking this for me

COMMENT: Answering to VAEX here

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
stop being discovery thanos and demanding everything be exactly the way you require it

COMMENT: LF16: apeal to motive and ad hominem. I'm not asking for it because I want to ask credits as a Xeno, I'm asking for it to make the game less rulelawyery/sanctionbaity, restricted, and counter-intuitive

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm asking it for everyone

Laz08.11.2018
ShepShep.png

Phil08.11.2018
No Laz is a toaster boi. Worrying about optimization is what he does.

VÆX08.11.2018
Karlotta, what part of extremist/terrorist did you not understand?

COMMENT: LF17: Argument from repetition. I had already answered several times that extremist/terrorists also use robery and kidnapping as a way to increase their capabilities (NSU, RAF, Taliban, ISIS).

Karlotta08.11.2018
ran out of arguments, here come the memes and the ad hominems

COMMENT: refering to laz meme and Sean's apeal to motive ad hominem

Felsvar08.11.2018
Horrible selfie Sheperd had

Laz08.11.2018
I'll have you know, I was meming from the start because I do not care for your opinion <3

Karlotta08.11.2018
what part of "terrorist/extremists" rob people for money too dont you understand?

VÆX08.11.2018
No memes, you just argue for the sake of arguing, I simply don't get it...
I've never seen Xeno faction members or even indies complain about their ID lines

COMMENT: LF18: Another apeal to motive, argument from silence, repetition

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
What part of they don't need to
Like
If you had an actual case
of xenos not being funded
sure
you make sense
instead
they are funded by one of the big three
why the fuck would they pirate some shitty trader who has a ten year old ship

COMMENT: LF19: generalization from cherry picking

Karlotta08.11.2018
as if they only pirate traders who had a ten year old ship

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No but it doesnt matter
name a single trader with more purchasing power than the fucking USI

Karlotta08.11.2018
yeah... everything that contradicts you doesnt matter

Felsvar08.11.2018
selling popcorns!! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Like you're legit ignoring lore to try prove a point that is well covered by
lore
Canon
lore

Karlotta08.11.2018
if USI has unlimited cash and the others are so insignificant, why do they need the xenos to blow them up?`

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
It's called removing the competition

Karlotta08.11.2018
but if they have unlimited cash according to you, why do they need that?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Oh I never said they had unlimited cash. I said they have more than any random trader that the xenos shoot
which, by the way, is true

Karlotta08.11.2018
but they can give unlimited cash to the xenos, apparently

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Again, never said unlimited cash
for someone who likes to claim people make up things, you do a lot of putting words in peoples mouths

Felsvar08.11.2018
Ouufff!

Karlotta08.11.2018
xenos dont only shoot random traders. Samura, Kishiro, Dauman, Kruger, Gateway, and so on are major players too
you said they dont need more cash.

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
They don't

Karlotta08.11.2018
that pretty much implies unlimited cash

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
But what I actually said was
They wouldnt accept money from people they are ideologically opposed to when funded by libertonians
which are part of the big three
so its not like theres not a ton of cash being moved

Karlotta08.11.2018
they're not "accepting" money. They're ROBBING them

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I can kill you and rob the body

Karlotta08.11.2018
and I never said dont allow them to blow up traders

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I don't need to leave you alive

VÆX08.11.2018
Throws some money to Felsvar for two popcorns

Karlotta08.11.2018
jsut let them ALSO be able to rob them

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I don't need you to give me money, cause rulewise, I can now no longer shoot you
undermining my goals as an extremist

Karlotta08.11.2018
I can no longer shoot you after I asked for money and you paid

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Why add a line that contravenes half of the faction lore

COMMENT: another cherry picking generalization: It's a tiny detail of hte faction lore, not "half the lore"

Karlotta08.11.2018
if I aske for money and you pay, THEN I cant
but if I dont ask for money, then I can shoot you

Felsvar08.11.2018
Grab some!! :popcorn: :popcorn:

Karlotta08.11.2018
its very simple

VÆX08.11.2018
Gosh, Karlotta, please...How hard is it to understand Xenoes role in Liberty?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No, cause you've still not explained why the xeno's should be made into worse rogues

COMMENT: LF21: Strawman. I don't want to make xenos into worse rogues. The Lore and Motivations are still largely different.

Karlotta08.11.2018
your faciton lore of xenos not needing money doesnt make sense

Lythrilux08.11.2018
"Why would I want to play an Order when Zoners are allowed full shipline access and nomad engagement rights sirius wide?"

That's a good question :thinking:(bearbeitet)

Laz08.11.2018
so simple. you can see that by everyone disagreeing with you

COMMENT: LF22: Apeal to majority

Karlotta08.11.2018
and was introduced by people, just like it can be removed by people

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I never even added the part where zoners will have better rep nearly everywhere as well Lyth

VÆX08.11.2018
I mean, there are far more controversial topics to be discussed, rather than forcing opinions to break Xenoes role in Liberty

COMMENT: LF22 Argument by repetition+ strawman. I repeatedly adressed why xenophobic nationalists would rob people, and that there are many examples where they do, so it's not really "breaking role". LF23: apeal to "there are worse problems"

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Yeah I think every ID being able to shoot Nomads everywhere is a bit silly

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
It's zoi locked

Lythrilux08.11.2018
I guess it hasn't been "abused" yet, but there's huge room for it

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Zoners, Freelancers and Pirates don't have ZOI

Lythrilux08.11.2018
It makes Order ID moot

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
so they get sirius wide rights

VÆX08.11.2018
It's not that everybody wants to disagree with you as you see it, it's just plain arguing for the sake of arguing...

COMMENT: LF24: apeal to motive ad hominem

Karlotta08.11.2018
"break xenos role" is your opinion based on how other players made it becaise of hte situation they were in 10 years ago. That situation changed

COMMENT: I should have said "other people" like before, or more precisely "other admins"

Lythrilux08.11.2018
It would be kind of funny to hunt down Duks sirius wide with Nephs tho

Laz08.11.2018
No it's what literally everyone else is saying here Karlotta

COMMENT: LF25: Apeal to majority

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Secret Zoner Nomad Hunting Society
New faction

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You've provided no reasons for why we should change the xeno lore to allow you to be worse rogues

COMMENT: I had provided mutliple reasons in gameplay as well as lore: Make game less rulelawyery/sanctionbaity, restricted, and counterintuitive. The the counter-argument "they are terrorists" is not valid because terroists need money to work towards their goals too (confirmed by rl examples). The reason "they dont need more money" is not valid because the reason USI Xenos is because of trade profits of foreigners over libertonians. In other words: because of USI lost money from foreign trade. I also didnt ask to make "Xenos into worse Rogues". Xenos are still motivated in their hatred of foreigners even if they also rob foreigners so they can expand their capabilites. Rogues can still be motivated by simple greed/rebelion against autority. LF26: repetition of stawman "turn xenos into worse rogues"

Karlotta08.11.2018
"everyone else says it to it must be right" is a logical falacy, you know?`

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You claim that its simple, but like I said, play a rogue if you want to be libertonian pirating for cash

COMMENT: LF27: Argument from repetition. The difference in background/rp does not disappear when ID permissions are the same, and players can have rp preferences, not jsut ID permission preferences

VÆX08.11.2018
Xenoes = Terrorists/Extremists, not pirates
LR/LH = Pirates , while LH's focus is gaining massive intel alongside piracy to fund their goals

COMMENT: LF28: More repetion of things I adressed. Also, Xenos can already pirate cargo

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
instead of spreading that role to people who have a different lore background

Laz08.11.2018
Zoner Owned Nomad Eradication Raiders
@Lythrilux
Z.O.N.E.R.

Karlotta08.11.2018
now you just repeat something I already adressed, to change the subject, sean(bearbeitet)

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I said it several times already
you not being able to read is not my failing

COMMENT: I adressed every one of his points, but they just repeat themselves without providing factually accurate counter-arguments to my replies

VÆX08.11.2018
Why can't Zoners demand credits or cargo?
Buff Zoners please
Same argument

COMMENT: LF29: false equivalence and strawman. Allowing terrorists (who are unlawfuls anyway) to rob people is not the same as allowing a lawful or quasi-lawful ID to rob people

Laz08.11.2018
Zoners need funding to live
no rp where they get funding from

Karlotta08.11.2018
because Zoners arent criminals

Laz08.11.2018
let them engage people

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Zoners should be allowed to attack all houses

VÆX08.11.2018
And Xenoes aren't pirates either Karlotta

COMMENT: Yet they can pirate for cargo.

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
their backstory is they don't want to pay taxes

Karlotta08.11.2018
because players dont expect zoners to

COMMENT: replying to VAEX and Laz zoner posts

Laz08.11.2018


Karlotta08.11.2018
NSU, RAF, isis, and taliband werent pirates either. But they all robbed their enemies and asked for ransom money too

COMMENT: Replying to Vaex's "And Xenoes aren't pirates either Karlotta"

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Wait
next is Karlotta explaining how CR came from a different galaxy
And then using a real life analog(bearbeitet)

COMMENT: LF30: strawman, apeal to ridicule. putting words about CR in my mouth to then use those as an ad hominem

Karlotta08.11.2018
different sector

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
To try make it make sense

Karlotta08.11.2018
and you change thesubject again, with an ad hominem

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No, I already told you that you haven't convinced me

VÆX08.11.2018
:face_palm:

Karlotta08.11.2018
I know I havent convinced you

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I'm now asking you to explain where they came from if not from earth

Karlotta08.11.2018
because you dont want to be convinced
not because what you say makes sense

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Sure

VÆX08.11.2018
You don't want to understand Karlotta, and you wonder why people disagree with you

COMMENT: LF31: apeal to majority

Karlotta08.11.2018
I did understand, and I showed you how your argument was wrong

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I'll just go and tell the rest of the story team that the stuff we've written doesn't make sense to Karlotta, so we should drop it
I've told you the canon lore. If you can't accept it, too bad.

COMMENT: LF32: Non sequitur and strawman. You don't need to rewrite xeno story or change canon lore. Allowing xenos to also ask for cash is not as contradictory to their "terrorist" role as Sean pretends, and was added for ID balancing reason more than canon lore reason

Karlotta08.11.2018
then you start unpacking memes, ad hominems, changing the subject

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Stop restricting my free speech.
You've not told me why xenos should be worse rogues

Comment: LF31: moving the goal posts back to another strawman (that I already answered to) and argument from repetition. I already answered to it by saying xenos and rogues still have differences

Karlotta08.11.2018
the stuff you've written is causing annoyance, like you have said at the start of the discussion

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
So I'm waiting for that still

Karlotta08.11.2018
and it's also making hte game worse at hte point we are at

SurrenderTheArtifact08.11.2018
279 new messages :eyes:

Karlotta08.11.2018
there was a reason why that was put there 10 years ago
but that reason is no longer valid

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Ok, so let me put it like this

Karlotta08.11.2018
because population dropped

VÆX08.11.2018
Nobody's trying to make you look wrong because of personal reasons Karlotta, It's just your opinions on the subject are irrelevant

COMMENT: LF32: apeal to authority and ad hominem

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
If I kill a power trader because they didnt give me all their cargo
and they whine

VÆX08.11.2018
Massively controversial to Xenoes role in Liberty...

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Does it matter what ID I do it on?
Should we remove all ID's being able to kill traders(bearbeitet)

COMMENT: LF33: Strawman. I never asked to remove the ability to kill traders for anyone

VÆX08.11.2018
We have pirate factions in Liberty, play those, don't play Xenoes if you want Credit piracy

COMMENT: LF34: repetition

Karlotta08.11.2018
and you said then you have to explain your ID

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Cause thats the cause of the annoyance.
Me killing people instead of allowing them to do what they could to survive

Karlotta08.11.2018
vaex I already explained that I dont want to pirate as a xeno

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I straight said I fly these factions for blue messages

Karlotta08.11.2018
I want you guys to understand something

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
do you think that having a different ID line is going to stop the power trader to stop complaining?

COMMENT: I didnt answering that I'm still writing on another point. Answer: No but there will be less of the rule lawyering and sanction baiting that you also mentioned, and the rules will be less complex and counter-intuitive

Karlotta08.11.2018
about creating useless restrictions that make the gmae worse and not better

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I've had people try and bribe my nomad

Karlotta08.11.2018
not always

VÆX08.11.2018
I understand your points, but bringing up the server count to this discussion is not relevant to changing their entire lore

COMMENT: LF35 Strawman/cherry picking generalization. It's not changing the entire lore, and the server count matter because spreading players out among IDs no longer makes sense, and is counterprodcutive, when there are more IDs than players

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
should I have a can demand credits on nomad id's as well?

COMMENT: LF36: strawman, false equivalence, argumet from ridicule. (non wild) nomads dont irp use credits, xenos do

Karlotta08.11.2018
but it will cause less annoyance even if it doesnt eliminate it altogether

VÆX08.11.2018
Nomad Credits xD

Karlotta08.11.2018
vaex its not changing their entire lore

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Yes it is
I am playing one way
they target doesnt want me to

Karlotta08.11.2018
its changine a small detail of it, in a way that makes it more logical
and less annoying

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You are proof that few things in life are as logical as they seem

COMMENT: LF37: Ad hominem

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'*m not saying I dont want you to play the way you want sean

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Yes you are

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm saying dont tell OTHERS not to play the way THEY want

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
So

Karlotta08.11.2018
you can blow him up

VÆX08.11.2018
So by your logic, let's give all Liberty based factions including Hellfire piracy rights

COMMENT: LF38 Strawman from non squitur (for "all liberty based factions")

Karlotta08.11.2018
but dont tell others they cant ask for credits

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
you are telling me that I shouldn't play the way I want(bearbeitet)
because I played to my ID

Karlotta08.11.2018
no vaex, that's another logical falacy

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
and it inconvenienced someone else also playing to their ID

Karlotta08.11.2018
(strawman and non sequitur)

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Instead, we should change my ID, so that I can play it the way they want me to, if I feel like it
how is that logical?

COMMENT: LF39: Strawman. I'm not telling him to ask for credits, I'm telling him that I think he and others should be allowed to

Karlotta08.11.2018
Im not telling you to change how oyu play

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No you are

Karlotta08.11.2018
no Im not

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You want the Xeno ID to have a more logical ID
by changing it

Karlotta08.11.2018
you can blow up the trader without asking for credsit if you want

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
to something that would allow me to play a different way
I can already do that
why change the ID

Karlotta08.11.2018
just dont ask others to not ask for credits

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Fucking play an ID that can do it then
There are plenty in Liberty

COMMENT: LF40: more repetition

VÆX08.11.2018
^

Karlotta08.11.2018
to make the mod less restrictive, illogical, and counter intuitive

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Why take the niche of a faction for the sake of nothing
you add nothing with your approach

Karlotta08.11.2018
its not taking anything, its giving

VÆX08.11.2018
Thousand times said already...Xenoes need diversity to fill their role in Liberty.

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You took a factions niche away from it

VÆX08.11.2018
^
That

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You're not adding anything to it

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm adding diversity to xeno rp, not taking it
mom phone

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No sorry you're not

VÆX08.11.2018
How would Xeno ID differ from LR then?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You are taking a ID that can not use gunboats and cruiser, and giving it a line that will make it compete with an ID that has both of those, plus more bases, and more friends in the region
you have removed the niche of a faction in your so claimed logical improvements.
You're not adding to it, you're making it compete with a now identical ID that has more going for it

COMMENT: LF41: inconsistent (before after) comparison. He's pretending that Xeno and Rogue IDs were not already competing before letting Xenos ask for credits too, and that giving Xenos more things to do makes the ID worse by only now starting a competiotion between the IDs. His argument is completely contradictory to logic now. He also pretty much gave up on trying to be logical after this and just spouts lines

VÆX08.11.2018
#LeaveXenoesAlone

SurrenderTheArtifact08.11.2018
As far as Xenos can target transports without making any demands
They look quite good for a faction that spreads terror
They also can demand any cargo

Karlotta08.11.2018
vaex the RP and lore is different
as are the enemies and unofficial allies
Sean, I'm not removing anything. Waht youR'e talking about is making another ID less attractive hoping players will go to your ID(bearbeitet)

COMMENT: Exactly as I stated in the very beginning of the argument

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
you seem to have confused yourself with me

Karlotta08.11.2018
If you want and ID to attract more players, make that ID more attractive, and dont nerf another ID

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I'm not changing any ID's
thats your proposal

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm adding things that will make the ID more attractive, you want to have stuff that makes it less attractive, more counter intuitive and annoying, restricing RP
it would be nice if you stopped argueing like a child
and address what I'm actually saying

COMMENT: This is after they used logical falacies 41 times. most of which were strawmen and ad hominems like "You are proof that few things in life are as logical as they seem" which I had ignored until then

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
If you can't be bothered to play by the lore in a roleplaying game, there is no point in claiming it will add to anything

COMMENT: LF42 ad homimen, strawman, cherry picking generalization. He uses the fact taht I want to change 1 small aspect of the "lore" (rather an ID line that doesnt really affect the lore at all) to paint me as someone who doesnt play by the lore in a role playing game

Karlotta08.11.2018
instead of jsut looking for stuff to answer so you dont hvae to give in

VÆX08.11.2018
Attractive as in breaking factions lore/niche and making an yet another, but inferior Pirate faction in Liberty.
That makes no sense

COMMENT: LF43 repetition of strawmen

Karlotta08.11.2018
it has absolutely nothign to do with not playin the role or the lore

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I have addressed it. You have disregarded the story line and lore of a game to argue gameplay mechanics, which would be fine if we weren't here to roleplay

COMMENT: LF44 repetition of strawmen (based on incomplete comparison)

VÆX08.11.2018
It does...There should be diversity
And there is

Karlotta08.11.2018
giving it more rights does not make a faction inferior
again

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
it has everything to do with it. If I didn't care about the emergent stories, I would play other games.

Karlotta08.11.2018
not saying you cant blow ships up without asking for credits

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Diluting things doesn't automatically make it better
Adding things for the sake of adding things is not improvement
its dilution and lazy

Karlotta08.11.2018
its not adding for hte sake of adding. Its adding for the sake of making the game more attractive and less annoying

VÆX08.11.2018
Okay I'm done...
And I ran out of :popcorn:

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No, its not. It's adding for the sake of adding. There are already ID's that allow this. By tacking it onto everything else for the sake of less annoyance is a shit argument

Karlotta08.11.2018
but those IDs have a different lore and RP, and people have lore and RP preferences

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Good, play by the established lore then.

Karlotta08.11.2018
RP isnt only ID permissions, you know

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Stop trying to add things purely for the sake of adding them

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm not
its for the sake of making the game more attractive

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You've gone circular in your argument, to the point where you are now trying to defend your stance with something I've already said.

Karlotta08.11.2018
not for hte sake of addin thing randonly
you've got nothing left but to misrepresent my arguments

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I've told you several times already, claiming that I've got nothing left when I've made my case and it has boiled down to you wanting to be right, doesn't mean you are right
You have said that your motives in this are because it would be

"KarlottaToday at 2:35 PM
its not adding for hte sake of adding. Its adding for the sake of making the game more attractive and less annoying"
You've not explained how that works when everyone in the debate has disagreed that it will do that other than its logical to you

Karlotta08.11.2018
"everyone disagrees" is a logical falacy
not an argument

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Scroll up and find the person who agreed with you

Karlotta08.11.2018
it doesnt matter how many people agree

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Show me where my sentence was misunderstood

Karlotta08.11.2018
it only matters if the arguments are valid or not

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
"everyone in the debate" if you're going to cherry pick, do it right.

Karlotta08.11.2018
you claim I'm taking things away or changing your rp
I'm not

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
People disagree, you can't explain why other than "its logical"

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm giving you the possiblity to expand it

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
We've given reasons
you haven't

COMMENT: I've given multiple reasons which they never adressed but gish galloped from one argument to another in an endless cycle

Karlotta08.11.2018
you dont have to if you dont want to
no, you've given a bunch of logical falacies
strawmen, non sequiturs, ad hominems, calls to authority, calls to majority
you debate like a child

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Alright, so you're both an idiot, and unable to provide the reason why ours are logical falacies when asked for the reasons.

Karlotta08.11.2018
I did

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Show them to me

Karlotta08.11.2018
want me to do it again?

VÆX08.11.2018
Ugh, please, this debate gets this chat nowehere, Karlotta how about you make a proper thread on the Forums, and see how the community reacts to your arguments on the topic.
Because the way you interpret your reasons are illogical and lore-breaking.

Karlotta08.11.2018
"you are irrelevant" call to authority

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No

Karlotta08.11.2018
"everyon disagrees with you " call to majority

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I literally just asked you why our reasons were wrong

Karlotta08.11.2018
"you want to let ln fly rm ships" strawmen and non sequitur

VÆX08.11.2018
Nobody's siding with anybody, your reasons are just illogical
Make a thread, and see for yourself

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I mean, I just asked to explain to me why our lore reasoning is a logical fallacy, and you couldn't even do that.

COMMENT: After I showed him examples of logical falacies the used, he moves the goal post to "show how one specific thing" is a logical falacy. (which is another logical falacy, I stopped counting at 41 or 42)

Karlotta08.11.2018
you said I'm asking you to change your rp. thats wrong
I said you're throwing logical falacies at me as if they were arguments

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Congrats on changing the subject
Now give me the reason why the lore is a logical fallacy
like you claim it is

COMMENT: Now he moves the goal posts from "explain to me why our lore reasoning is a logical fallacy" to "now give me the reason why the lore is a logical fallacy"

Karlotta08.11.2018
your lore reasoning is wrong and illogical because robbing people and taking their credits is a valid tactic used by pretty much every terrorist organization there is
I directly answered your questions. You jsut chnage the question when ever I answer one

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Alright, now go read the lore of the xeno's and tell me why its wrong for us to follow it

Karlotta08.11.2018
It's wrong of you to say that terrorists cant rob peopler for credits

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Saying that these real life examples did a b and c is great, until you remember only you brought them up.

VÆX08.11.2018
Do you understand Diversity in factions Karlotta?

Karlotta08.11.2018
now oyu're just moving the goal posts from one post to the next

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No, I'm presenting the issues with why no one will agree with you on this here

Karlotta08.11.2018
"do this do that" and when ever I do what you ask for you move the goal posts to something else

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Can't we all just get along

VÆX08.11.2018
We are getting along :slight_smile:

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You claim we can't do say people can't do this, when all we've done is told you to play an ID that can do it instead of diluting another ID for it

COMMENT: Argument from repetition again. Again ignoring that I already gave several reasons why IDs should have more permissions: 1. Spreading players out among factions when there are more factions than players is counter productive 2. Having many restrictions in all IDs lowers the fun of playing as a whole 3. RP and lore is more than jsut "ID permission" and players will have conflicting preferences.

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm not worried that here dont agree with me, because more of you are children who want to stick with the gang

VÆX08.11.2018
It's just...Explaining in my eyes...From both sides of the arguments

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Ah yes, personal insults

COMMENT: Considering all the ad hominems they launched at me, calling them "children" for their inability to debate in a more mature manner is still mild.

Lythrilux08.11.2018
In the jungle the mighty jungle
The lion sleeps tonight

VÆX08.11.2018
No Karlotta, nobody's trying to prove you wrong for the sake of proving you wrong

Karlotta08.11.2018
I called you a child after yo ucalled me an idiot

VÆX08.11.2018
Your arguments are invalid, there's just that

Karlotta08.11.2018
now you complain

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Actually you did it before I called you an idiot

COMMENT: I said "you debate like a child" after the 41st logical falacy, but only after receiving around 10 ad hominems from them

Karlotta08.11.2018
the way you argue it childish. thats a fact. You use one logical falacy after another

VÆX08.11.2018
:face_palm:

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You've done all the things you claim we have

Karlotta08.11.2018
read up

VÆX08.11.2018
On Xeno lore

Karlotta08.11.2018
no I havent

VÆX08.11.2018
Yes
Plz

Karlotta08.11.2018
you just say what ever comes to your ahead without checking if its actually true
another childish trait
Vaex

VÆX08.11.2018
How mature Karlotta...Forcing your beliefs and illogical reasons on others...

COMMENT: Actually, I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, and neither would giving Xenos the OPTION to ask for credits.

Karlotta08.11.2018
your xeno lore was written by players
and it can be changed by players
its not the bible
or the qoran

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You bring up irrelevant information to prove a point, referring to server population in a discussion about gameplay balance and lore. You bring up real life examples in a conversation about the lore environment of a game. You insist you are the only one thats right, which is a very immature thing to do, and you fail to see the irony in claiming people are childish when they will directly tell you they don't agree


COMMENT: "Irrelevant" because he obvously doesnt understand why it is relevant for balancing IDs to spread players out. The RL examples were examples that showed that their "terrorists/extremists dont ask their enemies for money" reasoning was wrong and my "terrorists can rob people to further their cause" was right. Insisting that logic and factual evidence go over majority opinion and considering the possilibity that every person can hold a wrong opinion is not "very immature", it's scientific. I didn't call people childish for not agreeing, I called their way of using logical falacies like call to authority childish. Pretending I call them childish for disagreeing with me is again a logical falacy (apeal to motive).

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Every post I make is a new chapter in the bible

VÆX08.11.2018
LythriBible

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I've told you several times why I don't agree. Your reasoning to not agreeing is limited to "I think you're childish because you don't agree"

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm not merely insisting I'm right, I'm giving actual arguments why I am

VÆX08.11.2018
Actual invalid arguments that is

Karlotta08.11.2018
you calling them that doesnt make them that

VÆX08.11.2018
You calling them doesn't make it right either

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Calling other peoples arguments logical fallacies without being able to actually give a reason why they shouldn't follow the arguments they provided is not what I'd call being right.

COMMENT: I did give multiple counter-arguments to their arguements, to which the had none and instead just switched the topic and later repeated the same argument again

Karlotta08.11.2018
no but the fact that they are does
I listed your quotes and logical falacies for you already
read up(bearbeitet)

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Claiming to be right and factual is a logical fallacy

Karlotta08.11.2018
lol

VÆX08.11.2018
Can you look more into what diversity means? Or you want to continue forcing your ideas to the community that make no sense?

Karlotta08.11.2018
no it isnt
Im not forcing it

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Show me the place where you have carried out an actual study and have proof that your ideas will work 100%
Cause saying something doesn't make it any more fact than anyone else saying it

Karlotta08.11.2018
Im telling you how you are wrong and how the mod could be made more attractive. And you throw a fit

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
And I'm telling you that you are wrong

VÆX08.11.2018
Yes you are. You are claiming Xenoes are played wrong, but in reality they are perfect like they are, diversed from the other Pirate factions present in Liberty, with a repsheet according to their role

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
now who's right?


Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm not listing you my peer reviewed articles. I'd dox myself

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You because its your view? or me because its mine?

Karlotta08.11.2018
because my arguments contain facts and logical conclusions
and yours dont

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Says who
You?
Bias.

Karlotta08.11.2018
says logic

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Says who?
You again?
Bias again.

Karlotta08.11.2018
read up what the logical falacies you used are
its not only me

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You're biased

Karlotta08.11.2018
I didnt invent them
you're acting like a child again

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No, I'm acting like you.
Insistent that I'm right regardless of anything.

VÆX08.11.2018
lol

Karlotta08.11.2018
you're following a meme that others made, who didnt have anyo other arguemnts, jsut like you

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
What meme?

VÆX08.11.2018
How self-centered can you be Karlotta?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Calling you biased?
Thats a fact.
You are biased.

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm right regardless of the logical falacies you use, yes

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You also have a victim complex.

Karlotta08.11.2018
because you dont work with facts and logic
just more ad hominems

VÆX08.11.2018
Bias is real...I'm not siding with #TeamMeme, I'm siding with the Liberty Factional lore...And fail to see logic in your reasoning Karlotta

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Correct.
Never done a logical thing in my life
Absolutely just bullshitted my way to where I am

COMMENT: apeal ot authority falacy

Karlotta08.11.2018
ok. explain to me how I am victimizing myself when I tell you your arguemenst are not valid
oh... you cant. Becasue its just another ad hominem you pulled out of your hat

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Whats the meme directed to you that I didn't make?

VÆX08.11.2018
Well, you bring up points where you wish to change Xeno ID to yet another Pirate ID , by changing their gameplay

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Seems like victimization of yourself to me

Karlotta08.11.2018
lots of people bullshit their way to where they are  COMMENT: reply to Sean "Absolutely bullshitted to my way to where I am"
changin their gameplay by expanding it, without forcing them to expand it COMMENT: reply to VAEX

VÆX08.11.2018
You are childish, don't argue. Grow up, child. Your arguments are invalid child...Child....Child?
That's you
literally

COMMENT: Not saying "dont argue", saying "dont use apeal to authority, non sequiturs, strawmen, arguement by repetition, apeal to majority" as arguments

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Yea, cause you enjoyed that so much when offered a chance to change the story line

Karlotta08.11.2018
jsut pointing it out, hoping you will make an effort to behave less childishly

VÆX08.11.2018
xD

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
You remember that you complained when an event happened to allow you to change the story

VÆX08.11.2018
That's just

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
right?

VÆX08.11.2018
LoOOOOOOoool

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Now youre advocating it for other factions(bearbeitet)

Karlotta08.11.2018
now you're talking about the crayter vs outcast event?
really?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Yes I am

Foxglove08.11.2018
Can we delete pobs

Karlotta08.11.2018
great logic there dude

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I'm also going to talk about how more CR logged than Outcasts did, removing the entire argument of not enough players on ourside before you say it

Karlotta08.11.2018
can you like... think if what you say even makes sense in this situation before you say it? Please?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Explain the difference to me
Player driven story
Player driven lore

Karlotta08.11.2018
more outcasts than CR logged. Just in some times of day the CR were inthe majority

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Both given, neither forced to have you interact with it

Karlotta08.11.2018
they lost big time, in case you havent noticed

VÆX08.11.2018
FoxgloveToday at 2:59 PM
Can we delete pobs
Contact Wesker.com/Pobdeletion.php

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I also noticed that they spent a day whining instead of trying to do anything about it

Karlotta08.11.2018
nice change of subject though

Foxglove08.11.2018
:boxing_glove:

VÆX08.11.2018
Yeah, It's Vagrants chat Karlotta after all

Karlotta08.11.2018
and another failed attempt at ad hominem
hey... you were the ones talking about xenos

VÆX08.11.2018
Please...Take this chatter over to a thread in Forums, or yet Disco OFL Discord?

Karlotta08.11.2018
then you started talking about crayter vs outcasts

VÆX08.11.2018
How is this relevant to Vagrants btw?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I may talk about what I want

Karlotta08.11.2018
you wanna stop talking about it, sure, I dont care

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Just like I lead you to that, instead of switching it

Karlotta08.11.2018
you lead to that with another attempted ad hominem
saying stuff that wasnt true

Foxglove08.11.2018
This is general, I guess

Karlotta08.11.2018
great effort

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
so, now that you've called it out, whats the difference between that event and adding lines to the xeno ID
it offers chance for expansion

Karlotta08.11.2018
oh man
seriously?

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Discord ofl is dead

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Yea I want to know
Why did you take offense at that
and then argue for a similar thing

VÆX08.11.2018
I ate gabbage too

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Without Jack, Meph and Golanski there's just not enough drama or lulz to keep it alive

VÆX08.11.2018
Buff Gabbage

Karlotta08.11.2018
you want to know the different between allowing xenos to ask for credits, and removing a base by pitting two factions against each other?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Yea
I wanna know why
since your argument about our lore reasoning was that since it was made by players it can be changed by players
So
we have an event that used the logic
Now
why did you have issue with it

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm sorry, but if you cant answer that yourself, there's little point in attempting to answer it for you
you're simply unable to use logic(bearbeitet)

VÆX08.11.2018
What about you?

Karlotta08.11.2018
I'm very good at it
my university, my job, and my iq tests have demonstratd it

VÆX08.11.2018
That's what your self-centered "You" says, yes...But Diversity is something you do not understand

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Ok, so I did ask for the reason

Karlotta08.11.2018
as have my scientific publications

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Clearly I don't know it
would you care to enlighten me instead of changing the subject
hypocrite.

Karlotta08.11.2018
hey.. you asked. I answered
(vaex)
you were the one changing the subject

COMMENT: he changed the subject from letting xenos pirates to crayter vs outcasts event

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Karlotta watches rick and morty

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Karlotta is unable to answer a question without reverting to the logical fallacies I was accused of
next i'll be called a child again
and then the cycle begins anew

COMMENT: He asked a ridiculous off topic question and then used the fact taht I call it a ridiculous off topic question to say I use ad hominems.

Karlotta08.11.2018
yes you will
you're a child

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I'm gonna get a job as a psychic

VÆX08.11.2018
Sean, grow up...Karlotta is way more mature by bringing his/her ego to the equation

Karlotta08.11.2018
a fitting job for a bullshitter COMMENT: answering sean "I'm gonna get a job as a psychic"

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
now i'm being attacked instead of my argument
which by the way

COMMENT: He wasn't providing any arguments in what I replied to

VÆX08.11.2018
Child

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
was ignored with a claim of how much more logical they are so they don't need to answer it

Karlotta08.11.2018
well you're doing all this to draw attention to the fact taht all your previous attempts at logic crumbled

VÆX08.11.2018
Karlotta,  one question for your scientific mature self-centered self.
Define 'Diversity'

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Just bang already guys omg

VÆX08.11.2018
Get us a room plz

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Why argue so much over a video game

Karlotta08.11.2018
look in a dictionary?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No, I'm actually surprised how quickly you did all the things you accused of me after I asked why you had issues with the event

VÆX08.11.2018
Well, I'm looking an answer to all-knowing you to be honest, I trust science

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I mean, you could have answered, and then
But yea, it's not worth it.
Clearly giving you a chance to explain that to me since I didn't know was a mistake. Guess we'll never know the reasons

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Discovery sucks, the admins are terrible, go mine Iridium

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I agree lyth

Karlotta08.11.2018
I didnt use strawmen, or non sequitor, or calls to authority, or even ad hominem to try to jsutify my arguemnts. I onnly used 1 ad hominem (calling you a child) and 1 call to authority, but not to justify myself, only to answer your questions
I hope you're not the admins sean btw

VÆX08.11.2018
I don't mine Irridium, I only blast the transports heading in and out.

Karlotta08.11.2018
please tell me you arent
although that would explain a lot of things seen from the admin team

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Sure

VÆX08.11.2018
Cmon don't bring that logic into how anyone is being an admin or not...This has nothing to do with his position in the server.
I believe there are most of us who simply disagree with your illogical arguments
And you who don't understand factional diversity in Liberty
Choices for the players to play a role
And not to make look things as one
It's you who doesn't understand diversity, so please...Stop trying to fix stuff that don't need to be fixed

Karlotta08.11.2018
also, I didnt even call you a bullshitter (which sparked your complaint about logical falcies). You implied you were a bullshitter first by saying sarcastically you bullshited yourself to where you are, and then by saying you'd get a job as a psychic

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I never said you did

Karlotta08.11.2018
well, you said I used all the logical falacies you did
doesnt that imply it?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
No

Karlotta08.11.2018
you said it right after I sadi that tho

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Cause me calling myself a bullshitter isn't a logical fallacy

VÆX08.11.2018
Buff Nomads, nerf humans

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
Stop being so defensive about everything
who wants a set of supersonics

VÆX08.11.2018
How much?

Karlotta08.11.2018
read up waht you said. I merely answered to waht you said and implied

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
they're ugly and I don't want them anymore

VÆX08.11.2018
How much?
For 4?

Karlotta08.11.2018
how much for supersonics?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
free vex

VÆX08.11.2018
Gib!

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
just get them off my ship

Karlotta08.11.2018
can I have them for free?

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
these are disgusting

VÆX08.11.2018
Logging now
Conn?

Karlotta08.11.2018
BIAS!

VÆX08.11.2018
I called dibs :stuck_out_tongue:

Sean-Chan08.11.2018
I never said no
oh the black hole jumphole is still here
gonna yeet these supers into it(bearbeitet)

Lythrilux08.11.2018
Lol someone is trying to hack my roblox account

VÆX08.11.2018
NOES
Lythrilux08.11.2018
Forgot I even had one

VÆX08.11.2018
Come to Conn Sean, I will get them off ya

Karlotta08.11.2018
whats a roblox account?

Lythrilux08.11.2018
How do you not know what roblox is?
And you say you're educated!
Google it
Oh shit my WordPress account got hacked tho

Foxglove08.11.2018
Have you not watched that music video of Yeezy and 6ix9ine?

Karlotta08.11.2018
I dont think gaming counts as "education"