[22-Feb-20 12:27 PM] Serene Grace#5243
when are we voting on pix/veil/zigzagoon

[22-Feb-20 12:27 PM] BurntZebra#8147
presumably after all the spl lc games are done this week, at the earliest

[22-Feb-20 12:42 PM] Coconut#8762
if we're not organizing something now, it

[22-Feb-20 12:42 PM] Coconut#8762
won't be done until probably the week after

[22-Feb-20 12:59 PM] Luthier#1578
Ok

[22-Feb-20 02:15 PM] levi#6206
I think zigzagoon is balanced

[22-Feb-20 02:19 PM] Coconut#8762
I disagree with whatever levi says

[22-Feb-20 02:26 PM] levi#6206

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231290339128770560/680858028458639379/image0.png

[22-Feb-20 03:07 PM] hongli#4483
i still think veils are kinda dumb

[22-Feb-20 03:07 PM] hongli#4483
tbh

[22-Feb-20 03:07 PM] hongli#4483
i feel like it's not like there's zero counterplay but

[22-Feb-20 03:08 PM] hongli#4483
a lot of it is mitigated by hypnosis

[22-Feb-20 03:08 PM] hongli#4483
since pix can just get free turns to set up

[22-Feb-20 03:42 PM] levi#6206
i dont think zigzagoon is broken

[22-Feb-20 03:43 PM] levi#6206
it's frail and predictable

[22-Feb-20 03:43 PM] levi#6206
it needs counterprep but as of now i dont see it being significantly work than say

[22-Feb-20 03:43 PM] levi#6206
the oras smashers or fletch or sth

[22-Feb-20 03:43 PM] levi#6206
worse

[22-Feb-20 03:43 PM] levi#6206
*

[22-Feb-20 03:43 PM] hongli#4483
yeah i agree wrt zig

[22-Feb-20 03:43 PM] levi#6206
maybe the meta will develop s.t. it'll become worse

[22-Feb-20 03:43 PM] levi#6206
i do think veils is broken

[22-Feb-20 03:43 PM] hongli#4483
still think veils themselves might be problematic though

[22-Feb-20 03:43 PM] Shrug#7659
i think the only way it's broken w.o veils is w heavy memento stuff

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] Shrug#7659
i think veils the prollem

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] levi#6206
i dont even see ziggy as its best abuser

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] hongli#4483
yeah

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] levi#6206
but the main abusers in vull/sprit/ziggy are all so different and so mu fishy

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] levi#6206
when paired w veils

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] hongli#4483
i mean maybe it can be used as a breaker for other things on veils but like

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] hongli#4483
it really provides nothing to the team

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] hongli#4483
such a dead slot on veils

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] levi#6206
its still a good mon imo

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] hongli#4483
when you already have a dead slot w apix

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] levi#6206
like A- or even mid A

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] hongli#4483
well apix isnt really a dead slot

[22-Feb-20 03:44 PM] levi#6206
its threatening for sure

[22-Feb-20 03:45 PM] hongli#4483
it's fast, has a decent offensive typing

[22-Feb-20 03:45 PM] hongli#4483
and can put things to sleep

[22-Feb-20 03:45 PM] levi#6206
y

[22-Feb-20 06:07 PM] brewfasa#4532
not sold on veils being broken yet but I do think zig might be more manageable than previously thought

[22-Feb-20 06:08 PM] brewfasa#4532
there’s ways to prep for veils that aren’t terrible

[22-Feb-20 06:09 PM] Coconut#8762
osh brought croagunk and cottonee and still lost to veils

[22-Feb-20 06:10 PM] brewfasa#4532
do we still use single matches as proof

[22-Feb-20 06:11 PM] brewfasa#4532
I’m js I’m not fully convinced yet

[22-Feb-20 06:11 PM] brewfasa#4532
and we definitely haven’t given it time to marinate

[22-Feb-20 06:12 PM] Coconut#8762
I'm not saying we do

[22-Feb-20 06:12 PM] brewfasa#4532
ur saying we do what

[22-Feb-20 06:12 PM] brewfasa#4532
o

[22-Feb-20 06:12 PM] Coconut#8762
but he was clearly overprepped for it

[22-Feb-20 06:13 PM] Coconut#8762
with a team

[22-Feb-20 06:13 PM] brewfasa#4532
is gunk even good veils prep

[22-Feb-20 06:13 PM] Coconut#8762
that clearly wouldn't be that great

[22-Feb-20 06:13 PM] Coconut#8762
unless you were playing against veils

[22-Feb-20 06:13 PM] brewfasa#4532
gunk is good lol

[22-Feb-20 06:13 PM] Coconut#8762
he had a cottonee.

[22-Feb-20 06:13 PM] brewfasa#4532
o ye cotton

[22-Feb-20 06:13 PM] brewfasa#4532
but cotton isn’t good

[22-Feb-20 06:14 PM] brewfasa#4532
haven’t watched match tho lemme do that

[22-Feb-20 06:14 PM] Coconut#8762
it's a team that's clearly overprepped

[22-Feb-20 06:14 PM] Coconut#8762
for veils

[22-Feb-20 06:14 PM] brewfasa#4532
sure

[22-Feb-20 06:14 PM] brewfasa#4532
one off match doesn’t sway me that much

[22-Feb-20 06:14 PM] brewfasa#4532
when idt the “prep” is even that good

[22-Feb-20 06:15 PM] brewfasa#4532
again why is gunk considered anti veils rly

[22-Feb-20 06:15 PM] brewfasa#4532
when rocks dig is probs the best rocker?

[22-Feb-20 06:16 PM] LilyAC#7887
yea gunk isnt even especially anti veils

[22-Feb-20 06:17 PM] LilyAC#7887
imo osh's team just wasnt very good

[22-Feb-20 06:17 PM] Coconut#8762
osh's team wasn't good that's the problem

[22-Feb-20 06:18 PM] Coconut#8762
gunk is deffo a matchup fish though

[22-Feb-20 06:18 PM] Coconut#8762
no one's using it in SPL for good reason though

[22-Feb-20 06:18 PM] Coconut#8762
idk his justification for it

[22-Feb-20 06:18 PM] Coconut#8762
but its undeniably a fish

[22-Feb-20 06:18 PM] LilyAC#7887
wdym by thats the problem?

[22-Feb-20 06:19 PM] Shrug#7659
i think the thing about veils is that the things that attack it directly are shit and the things that beat the abusers depend on the abusers, of which there are many

[22-Feb-20 06:19 PM] brewfasa#4532
A fish for what lol

[22-Feb-20 06:19 PM] brewfasa#4532
aren’t the abusers p defined at least for boe

[22-Feb-20 06:19 PM] brewfasa#4532
bow

[22-Feb-20 06:19 PM] brewfasa#4532
now+

[22-Feb-20 06:20 PM] brewfasa#4532
bb pawn and Timburr aren’t rly shit

[22-Feb-20 06:20 PM] brewfasa#4532
not to mention Defog

[22-Feb-20 06:20 PM] Shrug#7659
i mean: drillbur vulla spritzee shellder cutie zig

[22-Feb-20 06:20 PM] levi#6206
pawn is still quite trappable and burr loses to a fair number of veil abusers

[22-Feb-20 06:20 PM] Coconut#8762
osh used a team that was dogshit

[22-Feb-20 06:20 PM] levi#6206
the veil abusers are just way too diverse

[22-Feb-20 06:20 PM] brewfasa#4532
ye just losing to an abuser

[22-Feb-20 06:20 PM] Coconut#8762
in 99% of situations

[22-Feb-20 06:20 PM] brewfasa#4532
doesn’t invalidate that it gets rid of webs

[22-Feb-20 06:20 PM] brewfasa#4532
er veils

[22-Feb-20 06:21 PM] brewfasa#4532
and at the point it’s just go

[22-Feb-20 06:21 PM] Coconut#8762
just to make sure he didn't lose to np spritz and np vull and ziggy behind veils

[22-Feb-20 06:21 PM] brewfasa#4532
ho

[22-Feb-20 06:21 PM] levi#6206
like i dont think theres a real way to be comfortable against the veils archetype at all

[22-Feb-20 06:21 PM] Shrug#7659
veils doesnt make these things twice as hard to beat, it squares the difficulty

[22-Feb-20 06:21 PM] LilyAC#7887
no coco

[22-Feb-20 06:21 PM] Shrug#7659
compounded by the number

[22-Feb-20 06:21 PM] LilyAC#7887
because his team lost to veils anyway

[22-Feb-20 06:21 PM] Coconut#8762
I don't think he had a bad veils matchup

[22-Feb-20 06:21 PM] Coconut#8762
and I think he went in making sure of that

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] Coconut#8762
it's just that the "veils" matchup

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] Coconut#8762
is ridiculously diverse

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
what makes veils more broken in this meta

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
Than last

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
ik ik don’t compare w/e

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
just curious what the answer is

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] Shrug#7659
the barrenness of 18 / 19 game to mind right away

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] Shrug#7659
came

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] Coconut#8762
I think the sheer amount of offensive options

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] levi#6206
no gastbra or fake foo

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] levi#6206
r the biggest ones i think

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
abra I think is big yeah

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] Coconut#8762
no gastbra

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] Coconut#8762
is huge

[22-Feb-20 06:22 PM] levi#6206
well even gastly could sub on stuff

[22-Feb-20 06:23 PM] Coconut#8762
stalling turns is more challenging

[22-Feb-20 06:23 PM] Shrug#7659
even something like mag gave u a pix switchin and turns

[22-Feb-20 06:23 PM] Shrug#7659
w volt

[22-Feb-20 06:23 PM] levi#6206
there might be smaller stuff too but im not as comfortable banking on them yea

[22-Feb-20 06:24 PM] Coconut#8762
I think if we're moving forward with a qb or suspect

[22-Feb-20 06:24 PM] Coconut#8762
it should probably be veils

[22-Feb-20 06:24 PM] levi#6206
uh

[22-Feb-20 06:24 PM] levi#6206
we could just formally vote on both veil and zig

[22-Feb-20 06:24 PM] Coconut#8762
ziggy reminds me of BW.

[22-Feb-20 06:24 PM] levi#6206
ig

[22-Feb-20 06:24 PM] Coconut#8762
in a lot of ways

[22-Feb-20 06:24 PM] Shrug#7659
i will put my biases on the table: i dont "like" veils and wouldnt have been sad if we banned it gen 7

[22-Feb-20 06:24 PM] Shrug#7659
but now it rlly is something different

[22-Feb-20 06:25 PM] Shrug#7659
as other ppl have articulated

[22-Feb-20 06:27 PM] levi#6206
reminder that at least one council member (tazz) thought it was busted in sm too

[22-Feb-20 06:27 PM] levi#6206
@tazz

[22-Feb-20 06:27 PM] levi#6206
😠

[22-Feb-20 06:39 PM] BurntZebra#8147
veils felt a little like old gens baton pass teams last gen

[22-Feb-20 06:39 PM] BurntZebra#8147
like it was agreed that it was an unskillful archetype of a team

[22-Feb-20 06:39 PM] BurntZebra#8147
and you had to go out of your way to actually make sure you dont lose to it

[22-Feb-20 07:06 PM] starmaster#8286
i def wouldnt call osh's team

[22-Feb-20 07:06 PM] starmaster#8286
over prepped for veils

[22-Feb-20 07:06 PM] starmaster#8286
how is lo cottonee even good vs veil

[22-Feb-20 07:06 PM] starmaster#8286
its fucking bad vs veil

[22-Feb-20 07:06 PM] starmaster#8286
idt his team was good vs veil at all

[22-Feb-20 07:45 PM] Ninja#8225
it looked like a Heysup team

[22-Feb-20 07:46 PM] Ninja#8225
ig pawn gunk is ok vs veils

[22-Feb-20 07:46 PM] Ninja#8225
I’d rather get rid of veils than Zig though I hated veils in SM too

[22-Feb-20 07:47 PM] Ninja#8225
I don’t rly think they contribute positively

[22-Feb-20 07:50 PM] levi#6206
it would be an apix ban not a veil ban

[22-Feb-20 07:50 PM] levi#6206
right

[22-Feb-20 07:51 PM] hongli#4483
well snover + ice cream mon veils aren't really the issue

[22-Feb-20 07:51 PM] hongli#4483
so yeah

[22-Feb-20 08:00 PM] LilyAC#7887
itd just be hail veil vanillite

[22-Feb-20 08:01 PM] LilyAC#7887
but thats just a worse screens cutie

[22-Feb-20 08:09 PM] Luthier#1578
agree with lily on this one

[22-Feb-20 08:09 PM] Luthier#1578
manual screens seems so ass

[22-Feb-20 08:09 PM] Luthier#1578
that extra turn needed to set up the screens is so bad for tempo

[22-Feb-20 09:01 PM] Serene Grace#5243
i thought oshs team was bad vs veils

[22-Feb-20 09:02 PM] levi#6206
why is gunk good against veil

[22-Feb-20 09:03 PM] Serene Grace#5243
its not

[22-Feb-20 09:03 PM] Serene Grace#5243
its good against shellder thats about it

[22-Feb-20 09:07 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i think the idea is to get webs up and set up gunk

[22-Feb-20 09:07 PM] BurntZebra#8147
and then its good vs veils besides vullaby

[22-Feb-20 09:47 PM] Quote#9846
Yea after the testing I did I'm not convinced ziggy is the broken element at all

[22-Feb-20 09:48 PM] Quote#9846
it's a bit limiting in how you can use it. I think it's good but some matchups are just fuckin impossible for it

[22-Feb-20 09:49 PM] Quote#9846
veil is super good though because we have so many stupid abusers and not enough reliable counterplay

[22-Feb-20 09:50 PM] Quote#9846
timburr and pawn exist but they easily lose to things on the team.

[22-Feb-20 09:50 PM] levi#6206
wanna put it to a vote

[22-Feb-20 09:50 PM] levi#6206
how many spl games do we have left

[22-Feb-20 09:50 PM] BurntZebra#8147
2

[22-Feb-20 09:50 PM] BurntZebra#8147
are veils actually better this gen than last gen

[22-Feb-20 09:50 PM] BurntZebra#8147
or are we actually trying to make the tier enjoyable this time around

[22-Feb-20 09:50 PM] LilyAC#7887
theyre better

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] Quote#9846
veils are better

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] Coconut#8762
yes to both

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] levi#6206
tazz and jake still have to play?

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] Coconut#8762
tazz vs pablo
jake vs ifm

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] BurntZebra#8147
tazz vs pablo, jake vs ifm

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] levi#6206
also theyre way better

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] BurntZebra#8147
in what way

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] levi#6206
gastbrafoo gone

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] Quote#9846
we have fewer safety nets to counterplay them

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] BurntZebra#8147
foo wasnt that big of a hold up

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] levi#6206
mainly gastbra ya

[22-Feb-20 09:51 PM] BurntZebra#8147
you needed to be 24/15 foo to have a chance at not dying to zig

[22-Feb-20 09:52 PM] LilyAC#7887
fake out was rly nice tho

[22-Feb-20 09:52 PM] BurntZebra#8147
yeah giving np vull a free speed boost

[22-Feb-20 09:53 PM] Quote#9846
it's the lack of fast mons tbh

[22-Feb-20 09:53 PM] BurntZebra#8147
now we're missing gastly/abra/staryu, right

[22-Feb-20 09:53 PM] Coconut#8762
no magnemite

[22-Feb-20 09:53 PM] BurntZebra#8147
+wingull

[22-Feb-20 09:53 PM] Coconut#8762
no gastly

[22-Feb-20 09:53 PM] Coconut#8762
no abra

[22-Feb-20 09:53 PM] Coconut#8762
we have wingull

[22-Feb-20 09:54 PM] Quote#9846
also ngl

[22-Feb-20 09:54 PM] Coconut#8762
all of those mons were particularly good vs. velis

[22-Feb-20 09:54 PM] Quote#9846
no z moves makes it harder as well

[22-Feb-20 09:54 PM] BurntZebra#8147
veils made it possible to run z moves on stuff like shellder too though

[22-Feb-20 09:54 PM] Coconut#8762
I think that's pretty minuscule in comparison

[22-Feb-20 09:54 PM] Coconut#8762
because it helped the veil user

[22-Feb-20 09:54 PM] Coconut#8762
as much as it did the non-veiler

[22-Feb-20 09:54 PM] BurntZebra#8147
z move shellder has a really hard time setting up w/o veils

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] BurntZebra#8147
like you get ohkoed by spritz moonblast

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] Quote#9846
yeah it helped both sides but it's still one less tool for the non-veil side

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] BurntZebra#8147
one less tool

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] BurntZebra#8147
but theres also  one less nail to hammer

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] BurntZebra#8147
into the grave

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] Coconut#8762
well

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] BurntZebra#8147
🤔

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] BurntZebra#8147
im not sure where my analogy was going

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] Coconut#8762
NP Spritz wasn't really an issue with veils last gen

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] Coconut#8762
but now I'd say it's pretty prevalent

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] BurntZebra#8147
im not talking about np spritz

[22-Feb-20 09:55 PM] BurntZebra#8147
well

[22-Feb-20 09:56 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i think my favorite veils team

[22-Feb-20 09:56 PM] BurntZebra#8147
was the magby spritz one

[22-Feb-20 09:56 PM] BurntZebra#8147
probably because it sort of dealt with the common problems with veils

[22-Feb-20 09:56 PM] levi#6206
np sprit was quite good on veils last gen too

[22-Feb-20 09:56 PM] levi#6206
worse than it is this gen for the reasons veils in general isnt as good i think

[22-Feb-20 09:56 PM] levi#6206
err

[22-Feb-20 09:56 PM] levi#6206
wasnt*

[22-Feb-20 09:57 PM] Serene Grace#5243
pamplona veils was the best veils of gen 7

[22-Feb-20 09:57 PM] BurntZebra#8147
eh

[22-Feb-20 09:57 PM] BurntZebra#8147
magby in veils is so good

[22-Feb-20 09:57 PM] BurntZebra#8147
outspeed gastly

[22-Feb-20 09:57 PM] BurntZebra#8147
50% to ohko abra with dual chop

[22-Feb-20 09:57 PM] BurntZebra#8147
or well

[22-Feb-20 09:58 PM] BurntZebra#8147
100% to ohko

[22-Feb-20 09:58 PM] BurntZebra#8147
but 50% to not get hit in the process

[22-Feb-20 11:48 PM] Serene Grace#5243
as it stands I think id vote no ban on veils and zigzagoon

[22-Feb-20 11:51 PM] Serene Grace#5243
at least not yet

[22-Feb-20 11:51 PM] Quote#9846
I'd be more in favour of a suspect tbh

[22-Feb-20 11:52 PM] hongli#4483
i'd be fine w either

[22-Feb-20 11:52 PM] levi#6206
I don’t think ziggy should rlly be considered until we’ve dealt w veils based on responses so far

[22-Feb-20 11:52 PM] levi#6206
I’d prefer qb

[22-Feb-20 11:52 PM] hongli#4483
there is a ton of stuff that i wish we could do sooner though

[22-Feb-20 11:52 PM] levi#6206
Just bc it’s faster

[22-Feb-20 11:52 PM] hongli#4483
so ig i'd prefer qb as well

[22-Feb-20 11:52 PM] hongli#4483
yeah

[23-Feb-20 12:20 AM] brewfasa#4532
I’d do a apix suspect rn

[23-Feb-20 12:20 AM] brewfasa#4532
i think that’s something everyone can get behind

[23-Feb-20 12:21 AM] brewfasa#4532
it’s def not qb level

[23-Feb-20 12:26 AM] starmaster#8286
agreed

[23-Feb-20 01:02 AM] levi#6206
i do think its qb level

[23-Feb-20 01:03 AM] levi#6206
i think it exacerbates mu issues way too much if youre weak to any of the veil abusers

[23-Feb-20 01:04 AM] brewfasa#4532
this isnt something thats sweeping the meta

[23-Feb-20 01:04 AM] brewfasa#4532
its not as easily abusable as even floon

[23-Feb-20 01:04 AM] levi#6206
a veil team isnt going to have a more than 50% win rate against other good teams probably but it feels like most games are either going to be 80%+ or 20%- in mu

[23-Feb-20 01:04 AM] brewfasa#4532
and thats qb for u?

[23-Feb-20 01:04 AM] brewfasa#4532
after admitting that

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] brewfasa#4532
there is absolutely no basis to qb this rn

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] levi#6206
and while i think that was fine when veils was a mid-low tier strategy in sm, i dont think its reasonable for a top tier strategy

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] levi#6206
i do think thats a qb yea

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] brewfasa#4532
where are u getting this 80/20 shit

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] brewfasa#4532
lmao

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] brewfasa#4532
ur making up numbers

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] levi#6206
im throwing out random numbers that are close to my feelings

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] levi#6206
yea

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] levi#6206
im not claiming to use data those are just my thoughts

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] brewfasa#4532
from 1 week

[23-Feb-20 01:05 AM] levi#6206
y

[23-Feb-20 01:06 AM] brewfasa#4532
ur getting these percentages

[23-Feb-20 01:06 AM] brewfasa#4532
thats absurf

[23-Feb-20 01:06 AM] brewfasa#4532
d

[23-Feb-20 01:06 AM] levi#6206
okay

[23-Feb-20 01:06 AM] levi#6206
i can remove the numbers they were just quicker

[23-Feb-20 01:06 AM] brewfasa#4532
that sentence doesnt make sense

[23-Feb-20 01:06 AM] brewfasa#4532
even w/o the numbers

[23-Feb-20 01:07 AM] levi#6206
a veil team isnt going to have a more than a roughly even win rate overall* against other good teams probably, but it feels like most individual* games massively favour either the veil team or the opposition, based on the veil team's selected abusers, to a much larger degree than other archetypes

[23-Feb-20 01:07 AM] brewfasa#4532
what is "other good teams"

[23-Feb-20 01:08 AM] levi#6206
non-veil thats solid

[23-Feb-20 01:08 AM] brewfasa#4532
how can u say good teams have an even win rate and then say they dont

[23-Feb-20 01:08 AM] brewfasa#4532
in the same sentence

[23-Feb-20 01:08 AM] levi#6206
overall*

[23-Feb-20 01:09 AM] brewfasa#4532
sounds like another tryhard wingull argument to me

[23-Feb-20 01:09 AM] brewfasa#4532
smh

[23-Feb-20 01:09 AM] brewfasa#4532
i literally dont get what ur saying

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] levi#6206
im saying veils is a matchup fisher

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] brewfasa#4532
overall it doesnt have a good wr

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] brewfasa#4532
but in single matches

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] brewfasa#4532
it does

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] levi#6206
no

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] brewfasa#4532
single matches

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] levi#6206
it either has a great one or an awful one

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] brewfasa#4532
would equate to overall wr

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] brewfasa#4532
ok

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] levi#6206
it averages to 50% so its not too strong in that sense

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] brewfasa#4532
that is way easier to say than what u were sauing

[23-Feb-20 01:10 AM] levi#6206
but its a matchup fisher way more than anything else

[23-Feb-20 01:11 AM] levi#6206
i personally think this is already clear cut enough to warrant a qb

[23-Feb-20 01:11 AM] brewfasa#4532
idt veils is rly in autowin category vs many archetypes rn

[23-Feb-20 01:12 AM] Serene Grace#5243
you also thought drifloon wasnt broken 🙄

[23-Feb-20 01:12 AM] brewfasa#4532
yeah lmao

[23-Feb-20 01:12 AM] brewfasa#4532
dude saves floon

[23-Feb-20 01:12 AM] brewfasa#4532
wants to qb veils

[23-Feb-20 01:12 AM] brewfasa#4532
im tryna wrap my mind

[23-Feb-20 01:12 AM] brewfasa#4532
veils is entire archetype too

[23-Feb-20 01:12 AM] levi#6206
haters

[23-Feb-20 01:12 AM] levi#6206
floon wasnt broken

[23-Feb-20 01:12 AM] brewfasa#4532
which we've been tryna save

[23-Feb-20 01:14 AM] Serene Grace#5243
timburr getting defog is a big deal

[23-Feb-20 01:14 AM] Luthier#1578
i think what levi is trying to say is that its an incredible mu fish fatty

[23-Feb-20 01:14 AM] Luthier#1578
but when it gets the mu fish correct its over from the start

[23-Feb-20 01:14 AM] Luthier#1578
if it doesnt, its over

[23-Feb-20 01:14 AM] Luthier#1578
and roughly half the time it auto wins

[23-Feb-20 01:14 AM] brewfasa#4532
ye i get that now

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] brewfasa#4532
he was just making it extra confusing

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] hongli#4483
defog is incredibly easy to work around on timburr

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] Luthier#1578
im still on the edge about

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] hongli#4483
for pix

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] Luthier#1578
if it being qb'ed or suspected

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] Luthier#1578
im not sure which would work better

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] hongli#4483
just put timburr to sleep or disable it like you've been running

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] brewfasa#4532
its rly not as easy as ur making it out to be

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] levi#6206
qb faster suspect slower

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] brewfasa#4532
imo

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] Luthier#1578
either way i do believe that it should be abnned

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] levi#6206
i dont want another two weeks of this in the meta 😭

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] Luthier#1578
like i think the community would agree

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] Luthier#1578
the thing about levi takes is that i will never understand him cuz

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] Luthier#1578
hes serious half the time

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] Luthier#1578
ex; veils

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] Luthier#1578
but then he was like

[23-Feb-20 01:15 AM] levi#6206
meta disc hasnt done much but its p much universally pro-ban from what i read

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] levi#6206
i mightve missed sth tho

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] Luthier#1578
no i dont want drif to be banned

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] Luthier#1578
like???

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] levi#6206
well

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] hongli#4483
he was serious then too

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] Serene Grace#5243
meta disc doesnt vote

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] levi#6206
the issue w drifloon is that

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] levi#6206
it isnt broken

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] Luthier#1578
ok anyways

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] brewfasa#4532
i also agree community would be pro ban

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] Luthier#1578
all i wanted to say is that either way i think veils should be banned because i think its unfair and not competitive and doesnt stimulate thought

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] brewfasa#4532
but that sometimes stems from just not wantign to deal w/ shit

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] Luthier#1578
and because i want it banned either way

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] Luthier#1578
i want it done as soon as possible

[23-Feb-20 01:16 AM] brewfasa#4532
which admittedly i would rather not deal w/ veils

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] brewfasa#4532
in builder

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] Luthier#1578
because its affecting the current meta

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] Luthier#1578
so i am in favor of the quick ban but

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] brewfasa#4532
but from matches so far do i rly think its broken? nah

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] Luthier#1578
thats only if council is almost unanimous

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] Luthier#1578
which matches?

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] Luthier#1578
nobody has used it in spl yet

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] Luthier#1578
other than like

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] Luthier#1578
actually i forgot

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] Luthier#1578
i think there was one game idr

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] brewfasa#4532
didnt osh lose to it

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] levi#6206
ya that was it

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] brewfasa#4532
nah just doing test games

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] Luthier#1578
oh ya

[23-Feb-20 01:17 AM] Serene Grace#5243
:taillow:

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] brewfasa#4532
is what i mean

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] Luthier#1578
:taillow:

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] Luthier#1578
ah ok

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] brewfasa#4532
but like were talking abt banning it yet ur questioning my time frame

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] Luthier#1578
fwiw ur test games arent the general meta

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] levi#6206
:praise:

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] Luthier#1578
no offense

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] brewfasa#4532
my point is we should take more time lol

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] brewfasa#4532
ok bruh

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] levi#6206
agree w luthier, however mine are

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] brewfasa#4532
u rite

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] levi#6206
and veils wins every time

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] brewfasa#4532
u rite

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] brewfasa#4532
my matches dont count

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] Luthier#1578
wait no

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] Luthier#1578
thats not what i meant

[23-Feb-20 01:18 AM] Luthier#1578
im digging myself into a deeper hole

[23-Feb-20 01:19 AM] Luthier#1578
ill stop

[23-Feb-20 01:19 AM] brewfasa#4532
lol u good

[23-Feb-20 01:19 AM] levi#6206
rofl

[23-Feb-20 01:19 AM] Serene Grace#5243
:toxic:

[23-Feb-20 01:19 AM] Serene Grace#5243
ive been testing with veils

[23-Feb-20 01:19 AM] Serene Grace#5243
i lose a lot

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] levi#6206
this is a flat out lie

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] hongli#4483
maybe if u didnt bring

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] hongli#4483
dead slot ziggy

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] hongli#4483
u'd win more

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] levi#6206
the "lose a lot" is a flat out lie

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] levi#6206
i mean

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] levi#6206
i know you've been testing a lot thoug

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] Serene Grace#5243
nope

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] Serene Grace#5243
i lose a lot

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] levi#6206
ok but what about relative to your wins

[23-Feb-20 01:20 AM] Serene Grace#5243
i lost like 5 times in a row to jyt

[23-Feb-20 01:21 AM] brewfasa#4532
have u dropped scarf frill at least

[23-Feb-20 01:21 AM] Serene Grace#5243
yea im using drilbur now

[23-Feb-20 01:21 AM] brewfasa#4532
scarf or nah

[23-Feb-20 01:21 AM] levi#6206
what abt cb onix

[23-Feb-20 01:21 AM] Serene Grace#5243
SD Rapid Spin

[23-Feb-20 01:21 AM] Serene Grace#5243
you joke but gotcookies built my team this week

[23-Feb-20 01:21 AM] Serene Grace#5243
haters

[23-Feb-20 01:21 AM] Serene Grace#5243
band onix is just ahead of its time

[23-Feb-20 01:21 AM] levi#6206
gotcookies is no joke

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] levi#6206
his builds r 1-0 in spl. he dragged the drifloons from 0-2-1 to 4-2-1

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] Serene Grace#5243
thats kinda fire. gotcookies builds are 1-0 in spl

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] levi#6206
i'd call him the next big thing but he already is

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] brewfasa#4532
rufflet and fetchd only mons allowed to run non scarf choice

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] brewfasa#4532
and even thn

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] brewfasa#4532
nope

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] Serene Grace#5243
honestly

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] Serene Grace#5243
i could drop zig

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] Serene Grace#5243
everytime i use it

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] Serene Grace#5243
i fight like onix ferro

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] Serene Grace#5243
or something

[23-Feb-20 01:22 AM] Serene Grace#5243
or spritzee pawn

[23-Feb-20 01:23 AM] brewfasa#4532
zig checks are super meta

[23-Feb-20 01:23 AM] brewfasa#4532
which makes it manageable

[23-Feb-20 01:23 AM] Luthier#1578
ya

[23-Feb-20 01:23 AM] Luthier#1578
ironically ferro and onix are super good right now

[23-Feb-20 01:23 AM] Serene Grace#5243
ill replace zigzagoon with shellder

[23-Feb-20 01:23 AM] Luthier#1578
wheres they werent that good earlier SM

[23-Feb-20 01:23 AM] brewfasa#4532
did u not have shell before

[23-Feb-20 01:23 AM] Luthier#1578
when shit like pawn was absolutely bonkers

[23-Feb-20 01:24 AM] brewfasa#4532
whats a veils w/o shell

[23-Feb-20 01:24 AM] Luthier#1578
Well thankfully pawn got knock

[23-Feb-20 01:24 AM] Serene Grace#5243
i had np spritzee instead

[23-Feb-20 01:24 AM] Luthier#1578
or else shell wouldve absolutely demolished everything

[23-Feb-20 01:24 AM] brewfasa#4532
whats best 4th move

[23-Feb-20 01:24 AM] brewfasa#4532
rn for shell

[23-Feb-20 01:25 AM] brewfasa#4532
i liked shard last meta w/ trappers

[23-Feb-20 01:25 AM] brewfasa#4532
but

[23-Feb-20 01:25 AM] brewfasa#4532
do u need coverage now

[23-Feb-20 01:25 AM] levi#6206
rapid spin

[23-Feb-20 01:25 AM] Luthier#1578
shard protect are my favorites

[23-Feb-20 01:25 AM] levi#6206
oml

[23-Feb-20 01:25 AM] Luthier#1578
liquidation may see some rise

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] brewfasa#4532
o ye it gets that again

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] Luthier#1578
personal favorite is protect

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] brewfasa#4532
spin buff is big for just spamming spear

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] Luthier#1578
cuz fimp is the strongest prior in the meta that hits it

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] Luthier#1578
other than ig pawn

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] Luthier#1578
actually

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] Luthier#1578
pawn checks shell now

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] levi#6206
pawns p trappable

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] Luthier#1578
so im sure liquidation is the best

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] levi#6206
pinch isnt

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] levi#6206
thats the main diff

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] Luthier#1578
i think shard is now the worst of the 3

[23-Feb-20 01:26 AM] brewfasa#4532
ye pawn was my pain reasoning for mb using coverafe

[23-Feb-20 01:27 AM] Luthier#1578
it used to be 2nd

[23-Feb-20 01:27 AM] Luthier#1578
but i think probs not needed anymore

[23-Feb-20 01:27 AM] Luthier#1578
idk

[23-Feb-20 01:27 AM] brewfasa#4532
nah i feel like shard is p poop rn

[23-Feb-20 01:27 AM] brewfasa#4532
im liking the spin idea

[23-Feb-20 01:28 AM] brewfasa#4532
but protect probs best

[23-Feb-20 01:28 AM] brewfasa#4532
overall

[23-Feb-20 01:28 AM] Luthier#1578
mhm

[23-Feb-20 01:28 AM] hongli#4483
on non-veils probably

[23-Feb-20 01:28 AM] hongli#4483
spin is rly nice though on veils for

[23-Feb-20 01:28 AM] hongli#4483
the webs MU

[23-Feb-20 01:28 AM] brewfasa#4532
yea

[23-Feb-20 01:28 AM] Serene Grace#5243
drilbur good

[23-Feb-20 01:29 AM] brewfasa#4532
has mudbray done anything this week

[23-Feb-20 01:29 AM] brewfasa#4532
can we retire that ground

[23-Feb-20 01:30 AM] levi#6206
prepping for that mon is so annoying

[23-Feb-20 01:30 AM] levi#6206
i think its still good but onix is hard to give up

[23-Feb-20 01:30 AM] brewfasa#4532
find it similar to id mareanie

[23-Feb-20 01:30 AM] brewfasa#4532
just gotta make sure u have something to break

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] brewfasa#4532
but most times its a non issue

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] levi#6206
oh i meaen

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] levi#6206
it feels ok to break

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] levi#6206
but 20 atk eq-slam-cc-slide

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] levi#6206
is just rlly strong as its own breaker

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] brewfasa#4532
o offensively

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] levi#6206
yea

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] brewfasa#4532
ye theres not much

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] brewfasa#4532
ground answers are ass booty

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] Serene Grace#5243
fast mareanie+vullaby

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] brewfasa#4532
yeah

[23-Feb-20 01:31 AM] levi#6206
if using it w onix opened less holes it'd be fine

[23-Feb-20 01:32 AM] brewfasa#4532
fast as in 14?

[23-Feb-20 01:32 AM] levi#6206
mud can go fast too

[23-Feb-20 01:32 AM] Serene Grace#5243
either 14 or 15

[23-Feb-20 02:00 AM] levi#6206
I do not think that apix veils is "too strong" in the sense that you disadvantage yourself by not using apix. However, I do think that the support it offers is comfortably beyond any other move, mon, or archetype in terms of forcing matchup issues, and that it is banworthy on those grounds. Being able to double a mon's defenses dramatically reduces the amount of counterplay for any offensive abuser, frequently shrinking them to just a couple of checks in the case of the most powerful abusers. The important bit is how any offensive abuser can benefit - Spritzee, Vullaby, Shellder, Zigzagoon, and Rufflet are probably the most prominent, and while a team can be built to acommodate for some of them behind veils, the reduced pool of checks for each of these behind veils means that you'll almost surely not be able to avoid being easily swept by all of them. Compare the degree of either how much harder a mon is to check or how easily a mon can abuse veils to, say, webs. Veils itself has more counterplay because it's temporary and broken by brick break, and in general, a veils team probably isn't going to have a more than a roughly even win rate on average against other good teams. However, it feels like most individual games will massively favour either the veils team or the opposition, based on the veil team's selected abusers, to a much larger degree than can be said for other archetypes.

{Reactions}
yeahok (3)

[23-Feb-20 02:00 AM] levi#6206
my stance

[23-Feb-20 02:27 AM] Quote#9846
that argument somewhat feels contradictory to me. The argument seems like it either wins hard or loses hard, but somehow will end up being about even? That doesn't sound like a very good strategy to me.

[23-Feb-20 02:28 AM] Quote#9846
I understand the argument that it might not have a lot of counterplay, but if that's the case then it's clearly broken.

[23-Feb-20 02:31 AM] Quote#9846
If you have to play/build sub-optimally to beat it, then that's a problem with the strategy.

[23-Feb-20 02:32 AM] Quote#9846
I personally don't have a problem with tilted matchups in games. It's a natural occurrence in competitive games and there are risks associated with simply having good or bad matchups

[23-Feb-20 02:39 AM] levi#6206
im saying it’s more prominent at forcing mus than the other available strategies

[23-Feb-20 02:40 AM] levi#6206
also wdym 50% against other top tier strategies isn’t very good

[23-Feb-20 02:42 AM] levi#6206
like is massive mu fishing not banworthy anymore

[23-Feb-20 02:42 AM] levi#6206
im pretty sure it is

[23-Feb-20 05:42 AM] Quote#9846
I don't really get the vibe of it forcing MUs other than bringing a thing or two to deal with it and playing properly.

[23-Feb-20 05:43 AM] Quote#9846
and yea 50% against some top strats isn't bad but that just makes it good, not amazing.

[23-Feb-20 05:44 AM] Quote#9846
On that note, I disagree with that. I think veil has really nice matchups across the board

[23-Feb-20 08:09 AM] starmaster#8286
tbf jyts team was intentionally a very good mu vs veil @Serene Grace

[23-Feb-20 08:09 AM] starmaster#8286
some ppl on my team were super convinced luthier would veil

[23-Feb-20 08:09 AM] starmaster#8286
so I made it that way

[redacted]

[23-Feb-20 07:49 PM] Shrug#7659
we're suspecting and not qbing?

[23-Feb-20 07:50 PM] levi#6206
well i'd prefer qb

[23-Feb-20 07:50 PM] levi#6206
but quote/star/fatty/serene are all pro-suspect

[23-Feb-20 07:50 PM] levi#6206
which is enough i think

[23-Feb-20 07:50 PM] Ninja#8225
We play serene this week so I’d like qb too

[23-Feb-20 07:51 PM] Shrug#7659
id qb it

[23-Feb-20 07:54 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i thought pearl was on a good streak in bw

[23-Feb-20 08:05 PM] LilyAC#7887
i think apix is very possibly banworthy but im not confident enough to support quickbanning it

[23-Feb-20 08:11 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i think apix has a bad presence on the meta

[23-Feb-20 08:11 PM] BurntZebra#8147
but idk if that makes it banworthy

[23-Feb-20 08:14 PM] Shrug#7659
why wouldnt it

[23-Feb-20 08:14 PM] Luthier#1578
isnt that definition of banworthy

[23-Feb-20 08:15 PM] BurntZebra#8147
idk

[23-Feb-20 08:15 PM] BurntZebra#8147
bad presence means like it causes the meta to not be fun

[23-Feb-20 08:15 PM] BurntZebra#8147
a little too much thought has to go into teams to make sure you dont get overran by veil abusers

[23-Feb-20 08:16 PM] Shrug#7659
why would we keep something around in a game we play for fun if it makes it demonstrably less fun

[23-Feb-20 08:16 PM] BurntZebra#8147
drifloon imo had a bad presence on the meta too

[23-Feb-20 08:16 PM] BurntZebra#8147
and we kept that shit around

[23-Feb-20 08:16 PM] Shrug#7659
wrongly then

[23-Feb-20 08:16 PM] hongli#4483
drifloon was the most fun mon ever

[23-Feb-20 08:16 PM] hongli#4483
haters

[23-Feb-20 08:19 PM] levi#6206
facts

[23-Feb-20 08:19 PM] levi#6206
drifloon made littlecup good

[23-Feb-20 08:20 PM] BurntZebra#8147
lets do a quick poll

[23-Feb-20 08:20 PM] BurntZebra#8147
on if we think pix has a good or bad presence on the meta

[23-Feb-20 08:20 PM] Luthier#1578
kk

[23-Feb-20 08:20 PM] Luthier#1578
make it

[23-Feb-20 08:20 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i was deciding how official to make it

[23-Feb-20 08:20 PM] BurntZebra#8147
if to just do reacts on discord

[23-Feb-20 08:21 PM] BurntZebra#8147
or to use strawpoll

[23-Feb-20 08:21 PM] levi#6206
lets use reacts

[23-Feb-20 08:21 PM] BurntZebra#8147
2 reacts on one message?

[23-Feb-20 08:21 PM] BurntZebra#8147
or individual reacts for 2 messages

[23-Feb-20 08:21 PM] Luthier#1578 (pinned)
If you think Pix is good for the meta vote thumbs up ( 👍 ) or if you think its bad thumbs down ( 👎 ) [Thumbs down number +1 because tazz votes thumbs down]

{Reactions}
👎🏿 (3) mathematicalimpossibility (4) 👎 (4) geraldo (5)

[23-Feb-20 08:21 PM] BurntZebra#8147
add good for meta

[23-Feb-20 08:22 PM] hongli#4483
i cant react

[23-Feb-20 08:22 PM] hongli#4483
the screen shakes and then won't let me

[23-Feb-20 08:22 PM] hongli#4483
oh right luth has me blocked

[redacted]

[23-Feb-20 08:24 PM] Luthier#1578
@levi delete all irrelevant messages from here until the poll and pin the post

[23-Feb-20 08:24 PM] Luthier#1578
please

[redacted]

[23-Feb-20 08:24 PM] Luthier#1578
@everyone make sure to vote on the pinned poll please

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] Luthier#1578
@levi send this message too

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] hongli#4483
pin zebra's message too

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] hongli#4483
for other users unfortunate enough to be blocked by luthier

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] levi#6206
@Luthier

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] hongli#4483
😢

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] levi#6206
doka cant react to your post

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] levi#6206
bc you have her blocked

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] Luthier#1578
sucks

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] levi#6206
😠

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] BurntZebra#8147
oh yeah

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i was like why does luthier have doka blocked

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] BurntZebra#8147
then i remembered

[23-Feb-20 08:25 PM] levi#6206
ur ruining the vulpix cause

[23-Feb-20 08:26 PM] hongli#4483
tell him that if he doesnt unblock me im gonna vote thumbs up

[23-Feb-20 08:26 PM] Luthier#1578
kk remind me to reblock tomorrow

[23-Feb-20 08:26 PM] Shrug#7659
please react geraldo to luthiers post if you are horny for someone who effortlessly translates the themes of the old west into bollywood fusion dancing

[23-Feb-20 08:26 PM] levi#6206
😍

[23-Feb-20 08:26 PM] BurntZebra#8147
🤤

[23-Feb-20 08:27 PM] Luthier#1578
levi can u tag everyone

[23-Feb-20 08:27 PM] Shrug#7659
:geraldo:

[23-Feb-20 08:27 PM] Luthier#1578
and ask to vote

[23-Feb-20 08:27 PM] BurntZebra#8147
can you @Council vote in pinned poll

[23-Feb-20 08:27 PM] Luthier#1578
oh.

[23-Feb-20 08:27 PM] Luthier#1578
ty zebra

[23-Feb-20 08:27 PM] BurntZebra#8147
big brains

[23-Feb-20 08:27 PM] Luthier#1578
lol not a single person has said yes

[23-Feb-20 08:28 PM] Ninja#8225
5 said horny though

[23-Feb-20 08:28 PM] BurntZebra#8147
well quote/coco/star/fatty havent voted yet

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] hongli#4483
i think good vs bad

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] hongli#4483
is kinda bad phrasing for the poll tbh

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] hongli#4483
we should've done

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i just wanted to boil down the thought process for pix

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] starmaster#8286
yea the phrasing is silly

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] hongli#4483
deserves quickban or no

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] levi#6206
well

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] BurntZebra#8147
is pix a bad presence on the meta -> yes or no

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] levi#6206
we already know its not getting qbed

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] starmaster#8286
we dont ban things that we think "arent good for the meta"

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] BurntZebra#8147
is a bad presence on the meta banworthy -> yes or no

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] starmaster#8286
lol

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] levi#6206
its getting suspected 100%

[23-Feb-20 08:29 PM] BurntZebra#8147
things that are banworthy

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] BurntZebra#8147
are almost exclusively bad for the meta

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] hongli#4483
then what's the point of

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] hongli#4483
the vote thing

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] starmaster#8286
ok we dont ban things just because of that

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i guess there are theoretically things that are bad for the meta that arent banworthy?

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] levi#6206
we already have 6 anti-ban and the rest pro-ban i think

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] starmaster#8286
is what im saying

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] starmaster#8286
the vote thing is ptless

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] starmaster#8286
idk why luthier made it

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] Shrug#7659
vote geraldo

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] Luthier#1578
ok ill reword?

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] starmaster#8286
no like

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] starmaster#8286
we alrdy voted

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] starmaster#8286
its a suspect

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] Luthier#1578
oh then why did i make it

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] levi#6206
its to figure out whos horny for someone who effortlessly translates the themes of the old west into bollywood fusion dancing

[23-Feb-20 08:30 PM] Luthier#1578
@levi

[23-Feb-20 08:31 PM] Luthier#1578
??

[redacted]

[23-Feb-20 08:31 PM] starmaster#8286
idk!