[14:48] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Now it's not ^^.
[14:48] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Man, I feel awful. I'm letting jack down kind of hard.
[14:49] Ara returns to Deus Ex: What're you doing?
[14:49] Tim "Alias" Johnston: He is wanting to do a group chat with Eugene and Gustavs and I, and I had to let him know that Gust thought his design was shit XD
[14:49] Ara returns to Deus Ex: What was it/why did Gust think it was shit/do you agree?
[14:50] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Well, its worth saying to start that he is nearly impossible to impress.
[14:50] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Which I told Jack.
[14:50] Tim "Alias" Johnston: (btw, jack feels challenged, not depressed, so that's good ^^)
[14:50] Tim "Alias" Johnston: But as for the design, well... It's great information really, but it just sounds like a gamer talking about what he wants to see in a game.
[14:50] Tim "Alias" Johnston: I can't get him to write real docs.
[14:51] Tim "Alias" Johnston: He wants to talk through everything and get everybody excited about an idea, but that's not how real game dev works =/
[14:53] Tim "Alias" Johnston: I'm trying to get him to write up his stuff in like, say, a wiki format
[14:53] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Which Eugene also suggested
[14:54] Ara returns to Deus Ex: Real game dev doesn't have to work in one certain way though.
[14:54] Ara returns to Deus Ex: If you think it's great information, work with it.
[14:54] Ara returns to Deus Ex: *cuddles*
[14:57] Tim "Alias" Johnston: I've been doing that kind of game design a while, and I'm ready to be more serious. But like I said, good ideas are good ideas and I won't pass them up.
[14:57] Tim "Alias" Johnston: So if he can organize his thoughts in a way that's accessible to developers, we will certainly use them ^^
[14:59] Ara returns to Deus Ex: Some times developers have to bend to designers, you know...
[14:59] Ara returns to Deus Ex: It can't just be one way.
[14:59] Tim "Alias" Johnston: heh heh, that's not what I mean.
[14:59] Ara returns to Deus Ex: All of these preconceived notions of how game design *must* be done.
[14:59] Ara returns to Deus Ex: Do something new, in structure, in development, in the final product.
[15:00] Tim "Alias" Johnston: That's how all of Jack's game projects have gone so far. It's the sad tale of 90% of indie devs.
[15:00] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Everybody gets excited on a new idea, lots of collaboration, cool shit coming out of the woodwork, all going great then... nothing
[15:01] Tim "Alias" Johnston: It takes organization, planning, and strategies specifically to make sure a game gets finished. One of those strategies is making sure that designers produce the same kind of digital assets that devs do, even if they are only internal.
[15:01] Ara returns to Deus Ex: and then 10% are amazing, and there's no way every single one of them was developed with one of the aforementioned templates
[15:01] Tim "Alias" Johnston: You're right!
[15:01] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Unfortunatley, 10% is not a good enough shot for me.
[15:02] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Minecraft is a fantastic example of a game that developed in a sort of freeform way.
[15:02] Tim "Alias" Johnston: It's also one of my favorites btw.
[15:02] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Probably no fancy design docs or anything.
[15:02] Tim "Alias" Johnston: ...Then again, they also didn't need any game designers. Only people who can actually *make* parts of the game.
[15:03] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Which is the other reason I'm hesitant to involve him. If you have one person telling everyone how it should be, and other people doing all the work, tension gets... high, quickly.
[15:03] Tim "Alias" Johnston: I tried to interest him in learning a little code, to prototype his designs
[15:03] Tim "Alias" Johnston: Or improving his drawing time, so he can do sprites for game art, or anything
[15:04] Tim "Alias" Johnston: But he didn't seem interested, or didn't seem to think he could.
[15:04] Tim "Alias" Johnston: For indie studios, being able to *make something* for the game is also really big.
[15:05] Tim "Alias" Johnston: ...I shouldn't go into all this with you. I don't mean to disparrage him.
[15:05] Tim "Alias" Johnston: For what it's worth, I personally am still impressed by the quality of his ideas ^^
[15:07] Tim "Alias" Johnston: And like I said before, when he has them cataloged and organized, I will be thrilled.
[15:07] Ara returns to Deus Ex: If you're impressed by the quality of his ideas, do something about it.
[15:08] Tim "Alias" Johnston: I'm sorry. He's just not serious enough.
[15:08] Ara returns to Deus Ex: What makes you say that *tilts head*
[15:08] Tim "Alias" Johnston: The fact that he has all day every day to learn how to make games, and all he does is play them =P
[15:09] Ara returns to Deus Ex: Listen.
[15:09] Ara returns to Deus Ex: If you like his ideas, but you think there needs to be changes, talk to him about it. More. Bluntly, honestly, brutally, openly.
[15:09] Ara returns to Deus Ex: It's exceedingly unlikely you'll hurt his feelings, and there's a decent chance you'll get something productive out of the conversation
[15:10] Tim "Alias" Johnston: ...Alright. If that's your opionion, then I will.