NetBSD AGM 2026 Minutes of Meeting

NetBSD AGM 2026 Minutes of Meeting

20:56 -!- neng [~neng@2001:fb1:139:b4ac:9d3f:9a66:11dd:bca] has joined #netbsd-agm
20:56 -!- Topic for #netbsd-agm: The NetBSD Foundation Annual General Meeting - Next Meeting Today at 14:00 UTC
20:56 -!- Topic set by spz [spz@netbsd/admins/spz] [Sat Jun  6 17:05:41 2026]
20:56 -!- Irssi: #netbsd-agm: Total of 56 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 52 normal]
20:56 -!- Channel #netbsd-agm created Wed May 19 23:56:08 2021
20:56 -!- Irssi: Join to #netbsd-agm was synced in 8 secs
20:56 -!- fvc70r [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
20:57 < krelz> lusers
20:57 -!- sborrill [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
20:57 -!- acidsys [~crameleon@openSUSE/member/crameleon] has joined #netbsd-agm
20:57 <@spz> and rusers
20:57 <@leot> Hello!
20:57 < fvc70r> good morning
20:58 < sborrill> Hi!
20:58 < jklos> Good meeting day to everyone :)
20:58 -!- SnoopyOnZNCNow [SnoopyOnZN@user/OnASnoopPhone] has joined #netbsd-agm
20:58 -!- fivedonuts [~charles@2601:5c2:0:28:2bae:349f:d93c:7526] has joined #netbsd-agm
20:58 < PGoyette> a sleepy hello from America/Los_Angeles
20:58 -!- ktnb [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
20:58 -!- drscream [~drscream@netbsd/developer/tm] has joined #netbsd-agm
20:58 -!- Guest63 [~Guest63@2a04:4e41:2738:fb83::d738:fb83] has joined #netbsd-agm
20:58 < SnoopyOnZNCNow> Hi
20:59 -!- Guest63 [~Guest63@2a04:4e41:2738:fb83::d738:fb83] has quit [Client Quit]
20:59 < ktnb> Hi all
20:59 < schbax> hello everyone
20:59 <@leot> We will start in around 5 minutes, sorry! (some last-time presentation and adjustment to the schedule!)
21:00 -!- cagney_ [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:00 -!- Guest75 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:00 -!- Guest85 is now known as mondo
21:00 < Cryo> Welcome!
21:01 -!- mondo is now known as mon10
21:01 -!- zafer [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:02 < Cryo> leot will be moderating today.  We will take questions at the end of the presentations.
21:04 < SnoopyOnZNCNow> What is this? is there some sort of introduction to this apart from https://freedoom.github.io/ ? i'm new
21:04 -!- ktnb [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
21:04 < Cryo> We have the executive committees presenting today on what has been happening since the last AGM
21:04 -!- LeGrandFromage is now known as oster
21:04 -!- ktnb [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:05 -!- vezhlys_ is now known as andvar
21:05 < racoon> If you somehow ended up here without seeing the announcement, read: https://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-announce/2026/05/17/msg000397.html
21:06 < SnoopyOnZNCNow> racoon: oh ok thank you
21:06 <@leot> OK, we are about to start... sorry for the delay!
21:06 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+m] by leot
21:06 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+o Cryo] by leot
21:06 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v Cryo] by leot
21:06  * Cryo turns the lights down
21:07 -!- ktnb [[email protected]] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:08 -!- iv4nshm4k0v [~iv4nshm4k@2001:470:1f13:1eb::1:1d] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:08 <@leot> Hello everyone!
21:08 <@Cryo> I'll start off by thanking you for coming.
21:08 -!- ktnb [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:08 <@Cryo> and handing it to leot!
21:08 <@leot> Thanks Cryo and thanks for coming!
21:08 <@leot> .
21:08 <@leot> Welcome to The NetBSD Foundation Annual General Meeting 2026!
21:08 <@leot> .
21:08 -!- pi31415 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:08 <@leot> In the agenda we will have reports from:
21:08 <@leot> .
21:08 <@leot> - board (<billc>)
21:08 <@leot> - core (<kre>)
21:08 <@leot> - admins (<spz>)
21:08 <@leot> - finance-exec (<riastradh>)
21:09 <@leot> - membership-exec (<martin>)
21:09 <@leot> - releng (<martin>)
21:09 <@leot> - security-team (<martin>)
21:09 <@leot> - pkgsrc-pmc (<wiz>)
21:09 <@leot> - pkgsrc-security (<tm>)
21:09 <@leot> .
21:09 -!- andvar [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
21:09 <@leot> If there are any last-minute additions please /msg me!
21:09 <@leot> .
21:09 <@leot> The Q&A session will be at the end of all the presentations.
21:09 <@leot> .
21:09 <@leot> When Q&A begins please /msg me with "I have question for <team>" or
21:09 <@leot> "I have question for <nick>" and I will give you voice when it is
21:09 <@leot> your turn.
21:09 <@leot> .
21:10 <@leot> Next presentation is prepared by <billc> and board@ for board!
21:11 -!- skrll [~skrll@2a00:23c5:ef19:8701:e0b8:cb41:addc:1c98] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:11 -!- vezhlys_ [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:12 <@leot> I will present on <billc> behalf
21:12 <@leot> .
21:12 <@leot> Welcome to the 24th Annual General Meeting of The NetBSD Foundation.
21:12 <@leot> .
21:12 <@leot> 2025 progress:
21:12 <@leot> - Recent stable releases include NetBSD 10.1 (Dec 2024), 9.4, and 9.3
21:12 <@leot> - Development is currently focused on the imminent transition to NetBSD-11 [RC4]
21:12 <@leot> .
21:12 <@leot> We are preparing for:
21:12 <@leot> - BSDcan in Ottawa, Canada
21:12 <@leot> - The ISF Common Good Cyber Fund (CGCG) application window, which runs
21:12 <@leot>   from June 23 to August 4, 2026.
21:12 <@leot> .
21:13 <@leot> We recognize that different avenues may well be available to us regarding grants
21:13 <@leot> and funding, and we are looking for volunteers to help us investigate, apply,
21:13 <@leot> and deliver for the programs available. This includes, but is not limited to,
21:13 <@leot> potential opportunities from the Internet Society, the Linux Foundation through
21:13 <@leot> Alpha-Omega, Germany's Sovereign Tech Agency and Prototype Fund, or grants from
21:13 <@leot> the European Union through NLnet.
21:13 <@leot> .
21:13 <@leot> The NetBSD Foundation Board of Directors presents a consolidated list
21:13 <@leot> of the relevant and major actions that occurred since last AGM.
21:13 <@leot> Quite a few discussions, actions, and follow-ups crossed multiple meetings.
21:13 <@leot> Very few meetings resulted in not reaching quorum.
21:14 <@leot> During this period, new director(s) were elected by the members and
21:14 <@leot> officers were renewed or installed.
21:14 <@leot> We continued with our Bronze level sponsorship support of BSDcan,
21:14 <@leot> AsiaBSDcon, and EuroBSDcon to improve our representation at conferences
21:14 <@leot> and developer summits.
21:14 -!- ktnb [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
21:14 <@leot> .
21:14 <@leot> We participated in the Google Summer of Code for 2025 and we attended
21:14 <@leot> the Google Summer of Code Mentor Summit in Munich, Germany.
21:14 <@leot> We are currently participating in GSoC this year with 5 students!
21:14 <@leot> .
21:14 <@leot> For 2025, these are the projects that passed:
21:14 <@leot> - Asynchronous I/O Framework
21:14 <@leot> - Using bubblewrap to add sandboxing to NetBSD
21:15 <@leot> - Enhancing Support for NAT64 Protocol Translation in NetBSD
21:15 <@leot> .
21:15 <@leot> For 2026, these projects have been chosen:
21:15 <@leot> - Improving and Stabilizing the racoon2 IKE Daemon in NetBSD
21:15 <@leot> - Port the Enlightenment desktop environment to NetBSD
21:15 <@leot> - improving RAIDframe
21:15 <@leot> - Testing Compat Linux: Syscall testing
21:15 <@leot> - Convert a Wi-Fi driver to the new Wi-Fi stack
21:15 <@leot> .
21:15 -!- nbdholland [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:15 <@leot> We continued to improve our interaction and relationships with
21:15 <@leot> vendors, as well as participating in industry PSIRT/CSIRT
21:15 <@leot> with commercial vendors and other open-source projects.
21:16 <@leot> .
21:16 <@leot> We successfully completed the large-scale migration of our repository
21:16 <@leot> infrastructure from CVS to a Git/Mercurial ecosystem, including the
21:16 <@leot> launch of live hgweb and gitweb test environments.
21:16 <@leot> .
21:16 <@leot> We also advanced our security and compliance posture by initiating CNA (CVE Numbering
21:17 <@leot> Authority) onboarding with MITRE and ensure readiness for the EU Cyber
21:17 <@leot> Resilience Act (CRA).
21:17 <@leot> .
21:17 <@leot> We also implemented "Anti-Slop" protocols to protect codebase integrity
21:17 <@leot> against code not written by humans.
21:17 <@leot> .
21:17 <@leot> The funded contracts continued for:
21:17 <@leot> - improvements in release engineering
21:17 <@leot> .
21:17 <@leot> We are 12% through a fundraising campaign. *Please* consider
21:17 <@leot> donating, as we are a US IRS 501(c)3 charitable organization.
21:18 <@leot> .
21:18 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v krelz] by leot
21:18 <@leot> EOF
21:18 -!- ktnb [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:19 <@leot> Next in the agenda we have... core@ presentation by <kre>! krelz, please go ahead!
21:19 -!- Guest49 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:19 <+krelz> Hi everyone, before I begin, any other core members who want to add something
21:20 <+krelz> to what I am about to present, msg leot and I'm sure you can be snuck in when I
21:20 <+krelz> am done, which won't take long...
21:20 <+krelz> .
21:20 -!- Guest49 [[email protected]] has quit [Client Quit]
21:20 <+krelz> Report from core for 2026 NetBSD AGM
21:20 <+krelz> .
21:20 -!- netbsd_jdc [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:20 <+krelz> core is tasked with technical management of the NetBSD project.
21:20 <+krelz> .
21:20 -!- Guest49 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:20 <+krelz> The current members of core are:
21:20 -!- ktnb [[email protected]] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:20 <+krelz> .
21:20 <+krelz>         Christos Zoulas         christos@
21:20 <+krelz>         Chuck Silvers           chs@
21:20 <+krelz>         Robert Elz              kre@
21:20 <+krelz>         Martin Husemann         martin@
21:20 <+krelz>         Matthew Green           mrg@
21:20 <+krelz>         Taylor R Campbell       riastradh@
21:20 <+krelz>         Rin Okuyama             rin@
21:20 <+krelz> .
21:21 <+krelz> Actual technical management is difficult in a volunteer project,
21:21 <+krelz> as developers work on whatever interests them.   One aspect
21:21 <+krelz> which is sometimes important is in setting disputes between
21:21 <+krelz> developers.   Fortunately there was only one such dispute in
21:21 <+krelz> the past year, which was easily amicably settled.
21:21 <+krelz> .
21:21 <+krelz> Core doesn't hold regular formal meetings, issues are discussed
21:21 <+krelz> when they arise, otherwise we're mostly fairly dormant.
21:21 <+krelz> .
21:21 <+krelz> core, as a group, can be reached at [email protected]
21:21 <+krelz> .
21:21 -!- ktnb [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:21 <+krelz> That's it for me, for this year's core report, I will be here for questions later
21:21 <+krelz> .
21:21 <@leot> Thank you kre!
21:22 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v spz] by leot
21:22 <@spz> good localtime() all
21:22 <@spz> ,
21:22 <@spz> admins is the following people:
21:22 <@spz> christos, dogcow, kim, mspo, phil, riastradh, riz, seb, soda, spz, tls
21:22 <@spz> ,
21:22 <@leot> Next in the agenda... we have the admins@ presentation from spz! Please go ahead!
21:22 <@spz> Statistics:
21:22 <@spz> - admins runs the following TNF systems:
21:22 <@spz> @ TastyLime
21:22 <@spz> + 8 hardware systems, 6 'regular' Xen guests and 3 repotest Xen guests
21:22 <@spz> = 1 earmv7hf, the rest amd64
21:22 <@spz> - public services, the repo(s), sundry
21:22 <@spz> @ AOA
21:22 <@spz> + 6 hardware systems
21:22 <@spz> = all amd64
21:22 <@spz> - the NetBSD build farm
21:23 <@spz> @ Washington University
21:23 <@spz> + 7 hardware systems
21:23 <@spz> = 2 aarch64 and the rest amd64
21:23 <@spz> - two pkg builders, the repo conversion and a CI system, sundry
21:23 <@spz> @ Regensburg
21:23 <@spz> + 2 hardware systems, one of them with 2 Xen guests
21:23 <@spz> = all amd64 (+ a sparc64 serving consoles)
21:23 <@spz> - the offsite backup, archive, wip.pkgsrc.org and a CI system
21:23 -!- fly_ [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:23 <@spz> ,
21:23 <@spz> - CDN services donated by Fastly
21:23 <@spz> - Housing donated by TastyLime, Two Sigma, WWU, and spz
21:23 <@spz> ,
21:23 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v krelz] by leot
21:23 <@spz> NetBSD versions in use:
21:23 <@spz> 6   10.0_STABLE (1 earmv7hf, 1 aarch, 4 amd64)
21:23 <@spz> 6   10.1 (5 amd64)
21:23 <@spz> 13  10.1_STABLE (13 amd64)
21:23 <@spz> 1   11.0_RC3 (amd64)
21:23 <@spz> 2   11.0_RC4 (aarch64, amd64)
21:23 <@spz> ,
21:23 <@spz> Changes:
21:23 <@spz> Riastradh spent even more time on the mail system so we can still send
21:23 <@spz> mail to Google mail accounts.
21:23 <@spz> Also Riastradh has been developping the future reposerver setup.
21:23 <@spz> ,
21:24 <@spz> Notable issues:
21:24 <@spz> - spam suppression by technical means, which makes life hard(er) for
21:24 <@spz>   legitimate mailing lists and hasn't stopped spammers (or phishing) yet.
21:24 <@spz> - LLM scraping. Anti-social "all your resources are belong to us",
21:24 <@spz>   total disregard for robots.txt, and backed by lots of money
21:24 <@spz>   so they can buy all the shady "residential proxies" they want,
21:24 <@spz>   so IP blacklists aren't feasible. Their capacity to scrape
21:24 <@spz>   vastly outnumbers our capacity to serve, they are very aggressive,
21:24 <@spz>   so the chance of a human getting to use the wip.pkgsrc.org website
21:24 <@spz>   is slim. And to add insult to injury they could just download the repo
21:24 <@spz>   instead of diffing every possible version of every file against every
21:24 <@spz>   other version via the web interface:
21:24 <@spz>   the point is they don't want to use resources carefully, because that
21:24 <@spz>   would require thought and LLMs are all about not expending that.
21:24 <@spz>   (if you detect some foaming at the mouth here: yes. aarrrggghhh!)
21:24 <@spz> ,
21:24 <@spz>   We are very sorry but we'll have to add countermeasures like for
21:25 <@spz>   archive.NetBSD.org, if possibly not the same, or shut the
21:25 <@spz>   web interface down like we did with the cvsweb access to wikisrc.
21:25 <@spz> ,
21:25 <@spz>   The other NetBSD web sites survive thanks to having a limited
21:25 <@spz>   number of links (the scrapers only visit each one twice a day),
21:25 <@spz>   and CDN caching.
21:25 -!- wbrawner [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:25 <@spz> - hardware aging at TastyLime, both the TNF servers and the network
21:25 <@spz>   equipment. The latter is being dealt with, there will be a downtime
21:25 <@spz>   for sometime soon. The former suffers from requiring half a week time
21:25 <@spz>   on-site and roughly two weeks from off-site to get anything working
21:25 <@spz>   properly again, and the activation energy required to do that is a lot.
21:26 <@spz> - the perennially full /pub/pkgsrc/packages on ftp.NetBSD.org.
21:26 <@spz>   we have a plan, it "just" needs implementing.
21:26 <@spz> ,
21:26 <@spz> We often get asked:
21:26 <@spz> - why don't you use a Cloud provider or rent servers instead:
21:26 <@spz>         + did that with the offsite backup server, the provider ceased
21:26 <@spz>         operations and just shut everything off: our data? sucks to be us.
21:26 <@spz>         If we own the server it might get switched off, but we could get
21:26 <@spz>         it (and thus our data) back
21:26 <@spz>         + but you could have backups: having 50TB in total backed up and
21:26 <@spz>         not paying an arm and a leg for retrieval and making certain the
21:26 <@spz>         backup provider isn't going funny is either expensive or difficult
21:26 <@spz>         + in the long run renting servers is not cheaper if they actually
21:26 <@spz>         are busy all the time
21:27 <@spz>         + we should always consider if this (whatever this) is a good use
21:27 <@spz>         of TNF funds.
21:27 <@spz> - we could sponsor you a server
21:27 <@spz>         Thanks, kind of you to offer. However:
21:27 <@spz>         If it's just one server we couldn't do OS updates. Having IPMI
21:27 <@spz>         on the open Internet for console access is not a good security
21:27 <@spz>         stance. Thus we are at a server and a console server, and having
21:27 <@spz>         a console server and several servers just scales better.
21:27 <@spz>         Plus we'd like to have at least one member of admins in viable
21:27 <@spz>         site visit distance and an expectation of duration: site moves
21:27 <@spz>         aren't much less work than hardware renewals.
21:27 <@spz> ,
21:27 <@spz> Thanks to riz, tls and phil for their resources, time
21:27 <@spz> and blood sacrifices, too. :}
21:27 <@spz> ,
21:27 <@spz> Back to moderator.
21:28 <@leot> Thank you very much spz!
21:28 -!- Guest49 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
21:28 <@leot> Next in the agenda we have... Riastradh with the finance-exec@ presentation!
21:28 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v Riastradh] by leot
21:28 <@Riastradh> Hi, folks!
21:28 <@Riastradh> Finance-exec hoards the cash, keeps the books, sends
21:28 <@Riastradh> thank-you notes to donors, and pays out contracts and
21:28 <@Riastradh> reimbursements.
21:28 <@Riastradh> .
21:29 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v spz] by leot
21:29 <@Riastradh> We are:
21:29 <@Riastradh> - christos (Christos Zoulas)
21:29 <@Riastradh> - reed (Jeremy C Reed)
21:29 <@Riastradh> - riastradh (Taylor R Campbell)
21:29 <@Riastradh> .
21:29 <@Riastradh> The NetBSD Foundation's public 2025 financial report is at:
21:29 <@Riastradh> https://www.NetBSD.org/foundation/reports/financial/2025.html
21:29 <@Riastradh> We produce this from an internal ledger maintained with
21:29 <@Riastradh> ledger(1) <https://www.ledger-cli.org/>.
21:29 <@Riastradh> .
21:29 <@Riastradh> Highlights:
21:29 <@Riastradh> - We have net assets of a little over 400k USD as of today
21:29 <@Riastradh>   (we received a large donation in 2026).
21:29 <@Riastradh> - In 2025, we received about 80k USD -- far surpassing our
21:29 <@Riastradh>   usual donation target of 50k USD!
21:29 <@Riastradh> - We spent 21k USD, mainly on:
21:29 <@Riastradh>   o supporting conferences and sending developers to them
21:29 <@Riastradh>   o release engineering
21:30 <@Riastradh> .
21:30 -!- Guest52 [~Guest52@2001:1970:509c:3f00:8d3e:8ca9:ccce:c61a] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:30 <@Riastradh> That was a lot more income and a lot less expenses than we
21:30 <@Riastradh> usually have.  But forecasting:
21:30 <@Riastradh> - We expect to purchase some more hardware replacements this
21:30 <@Riastradh>   year, and components like RAM have gotten much more
21:30 <@Riastradh>   expensive recently.
21:30 <@Riastradh> - We have more funds for funded projects now, and while core
21:30 <@Riastradh>   or pkgsrc-pmc directs the funds, they're really driven by
21:30 <@Riastradh>   the developer proposals that are available -- so if you
21:30 <@Riastradh>   want to work on a funded project, send a proposal!
21:30 <@Riastradh> .
21:30 <@Riastradh> Happy to answer any questions about what finance-exec does,
21:30 <@Riastradh> or swap notes on using ledger(1)!
21:30 <@Riastradh> Thanks,
21:30 <@Riastradh> -Riastradh, on behalf of finance-exec
21:31 -!- Guest57 [~Guest57@2a00:23cc:f714:5801:ad91:68a7:7609:eac1] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:31 <@leot> Thanks a lot Riastradh!
21:31 <@leot> Next presentation is from <martin> with the membership-exec@ presentation!
21:31 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v __martin] by leot
21:31 <+__martin> thanks
21:31 <+__martin> The current members of membership-exec are:
21:31 <+__martin> - Christos Zoulas <christos>
21:31 <+__martin> - Martin Husemann <martin>
21:31 <+__martin> - Lex Wennmacher <wennmach>
21:31 <+__martin> - Thomas Klausner <wiz>, and
21:31 <+__martin> - Ken Hornstein <kenh> who is on sabbatical.
21:32 <+__martin>  -
21:32 <+__martin> Membership-exec is responsible for all aspects of
21:32 <+__martin> "membership", but in practice the main task is to handle
21:32 <+__martin> membership applications. The number of active developers
21:32 <+__martin> (as of 2026-06-06) is 138. Note that this number is a
21:32 <+__martin> bit outdated, as the membership activity validation process
21:32 <+__martin> required for the board election has not yet happened.
21:32 <+__martin>  -
21:32 -!- Guest69 [~Guest69@2405:201:2023:483c:1da1:b942:c228:373] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:32 <+__martin> Since the last AGM on 2025-05-17 we gained only 5 new
21:32 <+__martin> developers, which is (again) way too few. We need to invite
21:32 <+__martin> more people, please help active users and encourage them to
21:32 <+__martin> apply.
21:32 <+__martin>  -
21:32 <+__martin> The difference between developers and active developers
21:32 <+__martin> is explained in the bylaws - an active developer has
21:32 <+__martin> actually committed something in the last year, or contributed
21:32 <+__martin> in an active way, like admins.
21:32 <+__martin>  -
21:32 <+__martin> We'd like to emphasize that we appreciate all your replies
21:32 <+__martin> to our membership RFC e-mails, although we do not usually
21:32 <+__martin> acknowledge them. Please keep on providing feedback to
21:32 <+__martin> the RFC mails.
21:32 -!- Guest57 [~Guest57@2a00:23cc:f714:5801:ad91:68a7:7609:eac1] has quit [Client Quit]
21:33 <+__martin> thanks, back to moderator
21:33 -!- Guest57 [~Guest57@2a00:23cc:f714:5801:ad91:68a7:7609:eac1] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:33 <@leot> Thank you Martin!
21:33 <@leot> Next presentation... always from Martin but this time with the releng@ hat! :) Please go ahead __martin!
21:33 <+__martin> hi again
21:33 <+__martin> We are:
21:33 <+__martin> abs agc bouyer he jdc martin msaitoh phil reed riz
21:33 <+__martin> sborrill snj
21:33 <+__martin>    -
21:33 <+__martin> Since the last meeting, we have:
21:33 <+__martin>  o Branched netbsd-11.
21:33 <+__martin>  o Not released any formal release (only four release
21:33 <+__martin>    candidates for 11.0).
21:33 <+__martin>  o Processed hundreds of pullup requests.
21:33 <+__martin>  o Streamlined the process of cutting a release.
21:34 <+__martin>    -
21:34 <+__martin> Currently we are about to release the fifth (and
21:34 <+__martin> this time definitvely last) release candidate for 11.0.
21:34 <+__martin> 11.0 has had bad luck with security updates of 3rd party
21:34 <+__martin> components last minute and slow progress on making
21:34 <+__martin> these components updatable on relelase branches
21:34 <+__martin> (like libssh moving to /usr/lib/private/).
21:34 <+__martin>    -
21:34 -!- Guest69 [~Guest69@2405:201:2023:483c:1da1:b942:c228:373] has quit [Client Quit]
21:34 <+__martin> We have only two issues open for 11.0:
21:34 <+__martin>  (1) the missing unbound import (catch-up to current)
21:34 <+__martin>  (2) a new expat release that has not made it into
21:34 <+__martin>      -current, but fixes a few security issues
21:34 <+__martin>    -
21:34 <+__martin> Volunteers are welcome to help with both - please
21:34 <+__martin> contact me directly if you have some time to help.
21:34 <+__martin>    -
21:34 <+__martin> I hope to cut RC5 later this weekend or early next week,
21:34 <+__martin> and then the final release maybe 10 days later. If one
21:34 <+__martin> of the above items does not make it in, so be it.
21:34 <+__martin>    -
21:34 <+__martin> We have streamlined the process of actually cutting a
21:34 <+__martin> release (or release candidate) and admins made it possible
21:34 <+__martin> to completely stay out of this process now. Only one releng
21:34 <+__martin> member and one security-office member are needed now.
21:34 <+__martin>    -
21:34 <+__martin> A release still takes realistically slightly less than 24h
21:34 <+__martin> wall clock time, the biggest time consumers are all fully
21:34 <+__martin> automated: 4h build time, 6h network transfer to ftp, 1h
21:34 <+__martin> generating hashes. Plus various minor manual things like
21:34 <+__martin> editing the web page and posting the release annoucement.
21:35 <+__martin>    -
21:35 <+__martin> We are still processing a huge amount of pullups.
21:35 <+__martin> This is only possible because developers take the time
21:35 <+__martin> to test their changes on the branch and submit a
21:35 <+__martin> pullup request. We have been pretty good with this,
21:35 <+__martin> and pulled up lots of security and usability
21:35 <+__martin> improvements, as well as bug fixes to the various
21:35 <+__martin> active branches. This is good for our users, thank you
21:35 <+__martin> to everyone who cared and made it possible.
21:35 <+__martin>    -
21:35 <+__martin> The following paragraph is (unfortunately) a verbatim
21:35 <+__martin> copy from last year - and still valid.
21:35 <+__martin>    -
21:35 <+__martin> The biggest current issue is the over-aged netbsd-9 branch.
21:35 <+__martin> We need to get the NetBSD 11 release out ASAP to be
21:35 <+__martin> able to move NetBSD 9.x out of support.
21:35 <+__martin>    -
21:35 <+__martin> After the 11.0 release (and probably the repository switch)
21:35 <+__martin> I plan to start a discussion about rules and processes,
21:35 <+__martin> trying to make the time from branching to first release way
21:35 <+__martin> smaller. A slow release cycle is not that bad overall (IMO)
21:35 <+__martin> but a year long delay between branching and first release
21:35 <+__martin> is clearly wrong.
21:35 <+__martin>    -
21:35 <+__martin> That is all from release engineering for this year, we are
21:35 <+__martin> hoping to have a list of several formal releases in next
21:35 <+__martin> years report and also be close to the final release of
21:35 <+__martin> 12.0.
21:36 -!- damax [~damax@gateway/tor-sasl/damax] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:36 <@leot> Thank you Martin!
21:36 -!- Guest57 [~Guest57@2a00:23cc:f714:5801:ad91:68a7:7609:eac1] has quit [Client Quit]
21:36 <@leot> Next in the agenda we have... Again Martin, but with the security-team@ hat! Feel free to go ahead __martin!
21:36 <+__martin> This is a brief report for security-team.
21:36 <+__martin>  -
21:36 <+__martin> We are: agc billc cherry christos chs cyber hgutch joerg js
21:36 <+__martin> kre martin maya mrg riastradh rin shm spz
21:37 <+__martin>  -
21:37 <+__martin> Since last AGM we have not published any security
21:37 <+__martin> advisories. We have fixed (and pulled up) one issue that
21:37 <+__martin> has an SA pending, but it has not been finalized.
21:37 <+__martin>  -
21:37 <+__martin> There have been numerous bug fixes applied to the tree, and
21:37 <+__martin> pulled up to NetBSD-9, NetBSD-10 and NetBSD-11 release
21:37 <+__martin> branches. We also have updated lots of 3rd party components
21:37 <+__martin> in the tree when they had new releases fixing security
21:37 <+__martin> issues. Right now only the expat library needs an update in
21:37 <+__martin> -current.
21:37 <+__martin>  -
21:37 <+__martin> Most security work goes on "behind the scenes" and we
21:37 <+__martin> usually concur with request of reporters for a specific
21:37 <+__martin> publication date.
21:37 <+__martin>  -
21:37 <+__martin> Where needed we also involve NetBSD developers outside the
21:37 <+__martin> team when special expertise is needed. While we try to
21:37 <+__martin> assess all reported issues timely, we sometimes struggle
21:37 <+__martin> with doing so. Currently we have (if I did not miscount)
21:37 <+__martin> two open reports that need to be addressed.
21:37 <+__martin>  -
21:37 <+__martin> To improve our own process, becoming more reliable and more
21:37 <+__martin> transparent we are currently applying to become a CNA (CVE
21:37 <+__martin> number authority). This will allow us to assign and publish
21:37 <+__martin> our own CVE records. The process forces us to have public
21:37 <+__martin> statements of response times and processes for issues
21:37 <+__martin> reported to us. We might need to introduce a ticket system
21:37 <+__martin> to help with doing timely responses.
21:38 <+__martin>  -
21:38 <+__martin> NetBSD continues to be represented in a product security
21:38 <+__martin> incident response working group with other operating system
21:38 <+__martin> vendors, as well as a direct contact team with other BSD
21:38 <+__martin> projects. This framework allows us to work better with
21:38 <+__martin> vendors requiring an embargoed and/or coordinated release
21:38 <+__martin> with other operating systems. We can begin working on
21:38 <+__martin> issues that affect NetBSD much faster, instead of only
21:38 <+__martin> being notified after an embargo is lifted. We are expanding
21:38 <+__martin> the number of vendors as time goes on, as well as
21:38 <+__martin> participating in FIRST.
21:38 <+__martin>  -
21:38 <+__martin> This is teaching us quite a bit of where we need to
21:38 <+__martin> improve our process, which is currently on-going.
21:38 <+__martin>  -
21:38 <+__martin> Thanks to everyone helping with security issues!
21:38 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v __martin] by leot
21:38 <@leot> Thank you very much Martin!
21:39 <@leot> Next in the agenda we have... pkgsrc-pmc presentation, written by <wiz>!
21:39 -!- duuude [~user@user/duuude] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:39 <@leot> Unfortunately <wiz> could not attend the AGM so I will present it
21:39 -!- Guest52 is now known as VE3QBZ
21:39 <@leot> The pkgsrc team kept thousands of packages in pkgsrc up to date and in
21:39 <@leot> good working order, and delivered four -- the 87th through 90th --
21:39 <@leot> stable branches. Great work, and thank you to bsiegert@ and maya@ for
21:39 <@leot> handling the branches!
21:40 <@leot> .
21:40 <@leot> The pkgsrc team has welcomed one new developer, kikadf, who takes good
21:40 <@leot> care of chromium and wayland.
21:40 <@leot> .
21:40 -!- geezabiscuit [~geezabisc@user/geezabiscuit] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:40 <@leot> The current roster is:
21:40 <@leot> - agc (emeritus member)
21:40 <@leot> - dholland (board representative)
21:40 <@leot> - schmonz
21:40 <@leot> - wiz
21:40 <@leot> .
21:40 <@leot> Thank you for working on pkgsrc!!
21:40 <@leot> -- wiz, for pkgsrc-pmc
21:40 <@leot> Thanks!
21:41 <@leot> Next in the agenda... we have pkgsrc-security@ presentation, prepared by <tm>!
21:42 <@leot> He's only online via a mobile, so I will present it!
21:42 <@leot> The mission of the pkgsrc Security Team is to ensure that the ever-growing
21:42 <@leot> ecosystem of third party software is either safe to use or at least be sure
21:42 <@leot> people are aware of the known vulnerabilities.
21:42 <@leot>         -
21:42 <@leot> Our members monitor publicly available vulnerability feeds, mainly CVE.
21:42 <@leot>         -
21:42 <@leot> We aggregate received advisories believed to impact pkgsrc into the pkgsrc
21:42 <@leot> vulnerability list. When time allows we try to notify individual package
21:42 <@leot> MAINTAINERs and locate, commit patches to fix the vulnerabilities.
21:42 <@leot>         -
21:43 <@leot> Since 2021 our ticket handling crew is currently only 2 people, unfortunately
21:43 <@leot> pretty understaffed. We are looking and welcome people volunteering to join
21:43 <@leot> us!
21:43 <@leot>         -
21:43 <@leot> Currently handling tickets are:
21:43 <@leot>  - Leonardo Taccari <leot>
21:43 <@leot>  - Thomas Merkel <tm>
21:43 <@leot>         -
21:43 <@leot> The other current members of the team are:
21:43 <@leot>  - Thomas Klausner <wiz>
21:43 <@leot>  - Tobias Nygren <tnn>
21:43 <@leot>  - Tim Zingelman <tez>
21:43 <@leot>         -
21:43 <@leot> The year in numbers:
21:43 <@leot> In 2024, the vulnerability list had 9482 lines added to it (8967 more than last
21:43 <@leot> year) for a total of 30231 known vulnerabilities.
21:44 <@leot> In 2025, the ticket queue received 50050 new advisories (9330 more than last
21:44 <@leot> year). Of these 50050 new advisories:
21:44 <@leot>  new:        302 ( 0.6%) (not able to handle in 2025)
21:44 <@leot>  stalled:      0 ( 0.0%)
21:44 <@leot>  resolved:  1697 ( 3.4%) (affecting pkgsrc packages)
21:44 <@leot>  rejected: 48051 (96.0%) (no impact or duplicates)
21:44 <@leot>         -
21:44 <@leot> Zafer Aydogan <zafer> also joined pkgsrc-security rotation list for several
21:44 <@leot> months in 2025 and helped us. Thanks Zafer!
21:44 <@leot>         -
21:44 <@leot> The current count of vulnerable packages in pkgsrc-current is 787 (138 more
21:44 <@leot> than last year), in pkgsrc-stable is 809 (144 more than last year).
21:44 <@leot> See the periodic email to [email protected] for the list.
21:44 <@leot> But we've 3548 vulnerabilities to review!
21:45 <@leot> We can always use help locating and committing security patches, in particular
21:45 <@leot> for the many of these that are maintained by pkgsrc-users.
21:45 <@leot>         -
21:45 <@leot> We encourage all developers to help us keep the vulnerability list up-to-date.
21:45 <@leot> If you become aware of a security issue or perform a security update in pkgsrc
21:45 <@leot> please edit the list. You don't need any special privilege for this.
21:45 <@leot> You'll find the list in pkgsrc CVS repository:
21:45 <@leot>  pkgsrc/doc/pkg-vulnerabilities
21:45 <@leot>         -
21:45 <@leot> Please join the pkgsrc Security ticket handling crew, we're pretty understaffed
21:45 <@leot> at the moment! Feel free to get in touch with us for additional details or an
21:45 <@leot> introduction.
21:45 <@leot>         -
21:45 <@leot> EOF
21:46 <@leot> Thank you very much <tm>!
21:46 -!- Guest91 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:46 -!- Guest91 [[email protected]] has quit [Client Quit]
21:46 <@leot> We have another presentation that was not in the agenda!
21:47 -!- Guest29 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:48 <@leot> There is a gnats@ presentation by <dholland>!
21:48 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v nbdholland] by leot
21:48 -!- Guest92 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:48 <@leot> Feel free to go ahead David!
21:48 <+nbdholland> (This got held up by a schmozzle yesterday. Thanks to riastradh@ for running my dodgy scripts for me.)
21:48 <+nbdholland>
21:48 <+nbdholland> Here's the bug database report since the last AGM (12 months):
21:48 <+nbdholland>
21:48 <+nbdholland> GNATS statistics for 2025 (as of June  6 2026)
21:48 <+nbdholland>
21:48 <+nbdholland> New PRs this year: 880, of which 578 are still open.
21:48 <+nbdholland> Closed PRs this year: 445. Net change: +435.
21:48 <+nbdholland> Total PRs touched this year: 946.
21:48 <+nbdholland> Oldest PR touched this year: 5514.
21:48 <+nbdholland> Oldest open PR: 1677; PR ignored for the longest: 4691.
21:49 <+nbdholland>
21:49 <+nbdholland> Total number open: 7313
21:49 <+nbdholland>
21:49 -!- zafer [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
21:49 <+nbdholland> (Recall that this isn't github: in NetBSD "PR" means "problem report",
21:49 <+nbdholland> not "pull request".)
21:49 <+nbdholland>
21:49 <+nbdholland> This is the weekly plot:
21:49 <+nbdholland>
21:49 <+nbdholland>                                                        * 6900
21:49 <+nbdholland>                                                   ******
21:49 <+nbdholland>                                               **********
21:49 <+nbdholland>                                             ************
21:49 <+nbdholland>                                       ******************
21:49 <+nbdholland>                                   **********************
21:49 <+nbdholland>                 ******** *******************************
21:49 <+nbdholland>              *******************************************
21:49 <+nbdholland>       **************************************************
21:49 <+nbdholland>    ***************************************************** 6360
21:49 <+nbdholland>
21:49 <+nbdholland> If anyone was wondering, the oldest open PR (PR 1677) is about a
21:49 <+nbdholland> panic in unionfs. This is unfortunately still current. The most
21:49 <+nbdholland> untouched PR (PR 4691) is about ECC memory handling on sun3.
21:49 <+nbdholland>
21:49 <+nbdholland> Unfortunately, we seem to have reverted to our old pattern of an ever-increasing backlog.
21:49 <+nbdholland>
21:49 <+nbdholland> Anyhow, here are the people who've been fixing the most bugs, as
21:49 <+nbdholland> counted by commit messages found in PRs closed during the year.
21:49 <+nbdholland>
21:49 <+nbdholland>   10  [email protected]
21:49 <+nbdholland>   14  [email protected]
21:49 <+nbdholland>   15  [email protected]
21:49 <+nbdholland>   18  [email protected]
21:49 <+nbdholland>   23  [email protected]
21:49 <+nbdholland>   27  [email protected]
21:50 <+nbdholland>   29  [email protected]
21:50 <+nbdholland>   50  [email protected]
21:50 <+nbdholland>   53  [email protected]
21:50 <+nbdholland>  105  [email protected]
21:50 <+nbdholland>
21:50 <+nbdholland> This list always has a very long tail, and the difference between
21:50 <+nbdholland> being on it and not is only one commit. This year there were 55 people
21:50 <+nbdholland> who fixed or helped fix at least one bug report, down a bit from last
21:50 <+nbdholland> year. Thanks to one and all.
21:50 <+nbdholland>
21:50 <+nbdholland> And here are those who've been processing pullups for bugs, according
21:50 <+nbdholland> to the same analysis:
21:50 <+nbdholland>
21:50 <+nbdholland>    1  [email protected] (releng)
21:50 <+nbdholland>    2  [email protected] (releng)
21:50 <+nbdholland>    2  [email protected] (releng)
21:50 <+nbdholland>    4  [email protected] (releng)
21:50 <+nbdholland>   16  [email protected] (releng)
21:50 <+nbdholland>  127  [email protected] (releng)
21:50 <+nbdholland>
21:50 <+nbdholland> Note that this reflects pullups specifically linked into gnats, not
21:50 <+nbdholland> all releng work. Nonetheless, it remains heavily skewed. Many, many,
21:50 <+nbdholland> many thanks, Martin.
21:50 <+nbdholland>
21:50 <+nbdholland> <eot>
21:50 -!- Capa [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:50 <@leot> Thank you very much nbdholland!
21:51 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v nbdholland] by leot
21:51 <@leot> Now we can start the Q&A session.
21:51 <@leot> I have at least 2 questions already in the queue
21:51 -!- Guest94 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:52 <@leot> If you have more questions, feel free to /msg me with possible <team> / <nick> that may answer the question and I will voice you when it's your turn
21:52 -!- Guest94 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
21:52 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v racoon] by leot
21:52 <@leot> racoon has some questions for admins@! racoon, feel free to go ahead!
21:53 <+racoon> hello netbsd, hello admins
21:53 <@leot> (admins@ feel free to /msg me if you can answer their questions!)
21:53 <+racoon> my first question is whether it's possible to whitelist netbsd ftp(1) so that it doesn't need to pass a challenge to download files from archive.netbsd.org. my own experience of AI scrapers would say that's an unusual user agent to scrape, but i don't know how heinous they are. i'd like to do e.g. automated fetches of old distfiles
21:54 <+racoon> *unusual user agent to fake
21:54 -!- zafer [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:54 <@Riastradh> racoon: the captcha in there is a temporary workaround, we might deploy anubis or something in the near future
21:54 <@spz> if ftp has a recognisable user agent that might actually a great idea
21:55 <+racoon> my second question is whether it's possible that more hardware might be moved to e.g. germany, japan in the future, so that we're less centralized in the US
21:55 -!- Guest75 [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:55 <@Riastradh> racoon: Some of the hardware is in Germany already!
21:56 <@spz> it's easier for TNF to buy stuff in the US, typically cheaper too. We'll have to think about it.
21:56 <@Riastradh> (we are already running anubis on https://hgweb.test.netbsd.org and https://gitweb.test.netbsd.org/, just haven't deployed it or anything comparable on other services yet)
21:56 <+racoon> thank you
21:57 <@Riastradh> racoon: We would need a rack to do it, with enough machines to make it worthwhile to maintain there.  If you have a rack to offer, we could arrange that!
21:58 <@leot> Thanks racoon, spz and Riastradh!
21:58 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v racoon] by leot
21:59 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v cagney_] by leot
21:59 <@leot> We have a question from cagney_, probably for admins@ / gnats@!
21:59 <@leot> cagney_, feel free to go ahead with your question(s)!
21:59 <+cagney_> leot, tks, yes; and hello all
22:00 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v nbdholland] by leot
22:00 <+cagney_> I'm just wondering if, once NetBSD makes it off CVS, if the next big plan is the bug database? Any plans for that?
22:00 <@Riastradh> heh
22:01 <@Riastradh> We have had so many grandiose plans for bug database migration I lost count!
22:01 <@spz> yes, but it's got goats feet and then some
22:01 <@spz> since we do not want to lose old info
22:01 <+nbdholland> This has a long and unfortunate history
22:01 <@Riastradh> So, yes, it would be nice to migrate off gnats but we don't have a plan.
22:01 <@spz> otherwise: gnats should die. die die die die already. :-P
22:02 <+nbdholland> and what spz said.
22:02 <@Riastradh> But maybe we can start planning after we're done with CVS.
22:02 <+nbdholland> We've already done a lot of planning. The problem has always been getting any real work done on it
22:02 -!- monospod [[email protected]] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:02 <@Riastradh> (Actually we won't quite be _done_ with CVS because there'll still be a read-only CVS front end!)
22:03 -!- vezhlys_ [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
22:03 <+cagney_> My only experience is that while it matters to preserve old bugs, it matters less to migrate them to a new system.
22:03 -!- vezhlys_ [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
22:03 <+cagney_> anyway, looking forward to move ment
22:04 <@leot> Thanks cagney_, spz, Riastradh and nbdholland!
22:04 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v cagney_] by leot
22:05 <@leot> We have another question, from ktnb... probably for security-team@ / core@ I think!
22:05 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v ktnb] by leot
22:05 <+ktnb> Hello!
22:05 <+ktnb> it seems like there are endless numbers of bugs and security bugs being around daily nowadays. I'm not sure if these bugs are found mostly by AI or not but is there any consideration on how or if we should do audits to find holes in NetBSD? in other words, how do we plan to 'keep up with the times' in this security bug world?
22:05 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v __martin] by leot
22:06 <@leot> If anyone would like to answer and has not been voiced, feel free to /msg me!
22:06 <+__martin> I'll try to answer that
22:06 <+__martin> we currently receive real bug reports at still moderate rates
22:07 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v krelz] by leot
22:07 <+__martin> we see a few "spamish" things that first ask for bug bounty programs and then never come back with real issues
22:07 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v nbdholland] by leot
22:07 <+__martin> so right now I'd say it is still handable w/o additional measures
22:08 <+nbdholland> In the long run we would also like to use formal verification tools to get ahead of the game
22:08 <+krelz> I didn't mention it in the core report, as I'm not a finance person and didn't
22:08 -!- joe84 [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:08 <+krelz> want to commit TNF to spend money, but core can receive proposals for projects
22:09 <+krelz> which can be funded if they seem worthwhile (at moderate rates)
22:09 <+krelz> If there are any proposals for how we could do active audits of the code,
22:09 <+krelz> rather than just waiting for someone else to find bugs and tell us about them,
22:09 <+krelz> that seems like something which might be worthy of some expenditure
22:10 <+krelz> .
22:10 <+ktnb> That was kind of my concern: are we not getting a lot of bugs because of lack of usage or are we just _that_ good
22:11 <+krelz> It is probably some of both of those, much of our codebase is old, and fairly
22:11 <+krelz> satble, there aren't a lot of bugs (even less security issues) to find probably,
22:11 <@Riastradh> Perhaps but we shouldn't get cocky...
22:11 <+krelz> and most of what does exist, is relatively harmless (unlikely, and not catastrophic)
22:12 <+krelz> But also, our user base isn't all that huge, compared to other systems, so
22:12 <+krelz> stray bugs can take longer to be encontered.
22:13 <+krelz> But that's also (in some respects) a good thing, as finding bugs in NetBSD
22:13 <+krelz> isn't so profitable for hackers, that they are less likely to bother
22:13 <+krelz> .
22:13 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v khorben] by leot
22:14 <+khorben> I'd like to add and emphasize on a few things: in NetBSD we rely on third-party components
22:14 <+khorben> some of these components have a security impact and subject to scrutiny (and CVEs)
22:15 <+khorben> so regardless of our relevance, we are targets too and should fund efforts ourselves
22:15 <+khorben> as mentioned earlier in board's summary, we are looking for volunteers to help us do that
22:15 <+khorben> thanks!
22:15 <+khorben> .
22:16 <+krelz> Agreed.   Send proposals to core@
22:16 <+ktnb> Thank folks!
22:16 <@leot> Thanks ktnb, __martin, nbdholland, krelz, Riastradh and khorben!
22:16 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v ktnb] by leot
22:17 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v __martin] by leot
22:17 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v nbdholland] by leot
22:17 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v krelz] by leot
22:17 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v khorben] by leot
22:17 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v Riastradh] by leot
22:17 -!- skrll [~skrll@2a00:23c5:ef19:8701:e0b8:cb41:addc:1c98] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:17 <@leot> We have another question! From Ltning... probably for some pkgsrc folks! (maybe I can answer it, but if you can answer it, feel free to request voice via /msg me)
22:17 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v Ltning] by leot
22:18 <+Ltning> Hey all, I am a first-ish time pkgsrc patch submitted, specifically 60114
22:18 <+Ltning> It's a simple patch, of which I'd like to contribute more from time to time, but it seems "stuck"
22:19 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v racoon] by leot
22:19 <+Ltning> I guess my questions are 1) What can I do differently to get it unstuck, and 2) is there documentation on not just how to submit patches but how to "chase" them?
22:19 <+racoon> Ltning: since mail is a non-live medium, and irc is, my main suggestion would be to poke us on irc
22:19 <+Ltning> (I realise the pkgsrc team, like all others, are understaffed and overworked, so this is not meant to be criticism :)
22:20 <+racoon> it's also always helpful to say which platforms you've tested on
22:20 <+racoon> just because it shows confidence in the patch
22:20 <@Riastradh> Ltning: One thing that would be helpful is to make sure the `make test' target works, in addition to saying what platforms you've tested it on.
22:21 <+Ltning> Yeah - I have tried a couple times, but I guess not insistently enough. So perhaps the documentation could mention how-to-poke and also these things.
22:21 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v nbdholland] by leot
22:21 -!- zafer29 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
22:21 -!- zafer29 [[email protected]] has quit [Client Quit]
22:22 <+nbdholland> Another thing is, as per the discussion above, we all dislike gnats, and one of the reasons is that it's very difficult to find things in it
22:22 -!- zafer47 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
22:22 <+Ltning> Roger that - thanks. Will follow up with that.
22:22 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v krelz] by leot
22:22 <+nbdholland> So if you file a patch in a gnats PR, and it doesn't get attention quickly, chances are you need to poke someone about it
22:22 <+krelz> Also remember that everything in netbsd (incl pokgsrc)
22:23 <+krelz> is done by voolunteers - the best way to get someone to look
22:23 <@Riastradh> .oO(pokage source)
22:23 <+krelz> at a patch, is to find a developer with similar interests
22:23 <+krelz> (sorry for typos...)
22:23 -!- zafer [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:23 <+krelz> and convince them to take a look - any developer will do,
22:24 <+Ltning> Yea. I guess the last comment from me then is - this is useful information, and I wish I didn't have to waste your time in this "call" to get it.
22:24 <+krelz> the "pkgsrc team" (I believe) are generally more interested in
22:24 <+Ltning> Don't forget the impostor syndrome - I may be brave enough to poke randomly on IRC, but not everyone will be ..
22:24 <+krelz> the workings of pkgsrc itself, rather than individual packages
22:24 <+krelz> Finally, for an upgrade, which your PR is, it really helps to include
22:24 -!- zafer47 [[email protected]] has quit [Client Quit]
22:25 <+krelz> info on what has changed, why someone would want the upgrade
22:25 <+krelz> .
22:25 -!- dave0 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: dave's not here]
22:26 <@leot> Thanks Ltning, racoon, nbdholland Riastradh and krelz!
22:26 <@leot> We have another question, probably for finance-exec@
22:26 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v Ltning] by leot
22:26 <+nbdholland> Stuff like this about prodding people about patches being forgotten does appear on the lists at times
22:27 <+nbdholland> and it's ok to ask procedural questions there
22:27 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v Uilebheist] by leot
22:27 <+Uilebheist> Hi all, Hi NetBSD
22:27 <+Uilebheist> You mentioned that you are a US IRS 501(c)3 charitable organization - which is great for US people wanting to make a donation, but do you have or plan anything for people elsewhere?
22:28 <@Riastradh> We have discussed forming a potential nonprofit organization in Europe.
22:28 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v khorben] by leot
22:28 <@Riastradh> The main question is: How much administrative overhead does this bring on us (recall we're pretty much all volunteers, plus some part-time contracts with TNF)?
22:28 <@Riastradh> And, is that administrative burden worth the additional fundraising it would bring in?
22:28 -!- Guest26 [[email protected]] has joined #netbsd-agm
22:29 <@spz> specifically, there are EU-wide nonprofits, but that's a lot of red tape
22:29 <+khorben> I can add to that, we have tried to revive an existing NetBSD structure in Germany to help with this
22:29 <+khorben> unfortunately it hasn't brought fruition as of now
22:29 <@Riastradh> And the administrative burden is likely to be more than just the sum of the administrative burden of two organizations separately, because they would have to be notionally independent, and we would have to have to come up with a reasonable governance structure for managing the assets.
22:29 <+khorben> and indeed there are already broader OSS structures in Europe and elsewhere
22:30 <+khorben> (and what Riastradh says)
22:31 <+Uilebheist> Thank you.  I guess for now we might just make a slighly smaller donation and not get tax back!
22:32 <@Riastradh> For example, you may be familiar with the FSF (Free Software Foundation) and FSFE (Free Software Foundation Europe) -- although they are mostly aligned in goals, they are independent organizations with independent governance structure, and sometimes disagree.
22:32 <+Uilebheist> Ah yes, noticed these.
22:33 <@leot> Thanks Uilebheist, spz, Riastradh, nbdholland and khorben!
22:33 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v Uilebheist] by leot
22:33 <@leot> I think the questions queue via my /query is currently empty!
22:34 <@leot> Any other questions?
22:34 -!- qik [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:34 <@leot> (And/or if I've missed any questions, please /msg them again!)
22:35 <@Cryo> Alright, thanks everyone for coming.
22:35 <@leot> Cryo: wait!
22:35 <@leot> We have another question! :)
22:35 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v wiedi] by leot
22:35 <+wiedi> Hi, is there a status update on the repo migration? (Thanks to everyone working on it!)
22:36 <@Riastradh> We have infrastructure in place, just requiring tying up some loose ends for deployment, and we need to prepare a clean final conversion.
22:36 -!- pi31415 [[email protected]] has left #netbsd-agm []
22:36 <+krelz> Also, there is the test infrastructure, that not enough developers have been using
22:37 <@Riastradh> The infrastructure has taken a while because we're doing it a little differently from before, so we can reproducibly generate fresh images to test and deploy, rather than manually tinkering with a long-term server installation, and it took some engineering to get the software in shape for that.
22:37 -!- is_netbsf [~is_netbsf@2a0d:3344:20d6:c310:5098:bce9:5377:9df8] has joined #netbsd-agm
22:38 <+wiedi> Thank you, looking forward to using it :)
22:38 <+wiedi> does the test infra also have a pkgsrc repo? I forgot... will have a look
22:38 <@Riastradh> yes, it does
22:38 <+wiedi> amazing, thanks for your work and answers :)
22:38 <@leot> Thanks wiedi, Riastradh and krelz!
22:38 -!- vezhlys_ [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
22:39 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v wiedi] by leot
22:39 <@leot> Any other questions? :)
22:39 <@Riastradh> There are currently two test deployments, not all aligned on repository data (will change that soon), which you can test as a developer and anonymously.
22:39 <@Riastradh> Developer access is at hg.test.n.o or git.test.n.o over ssh, and anonymous access is at anonhg.test.n.o or anongit.test.n.o (or https://hgweb.test.netbsd.org/ or https://gitweb.test.netbsd.org).
22:40 <+krelz> Please, developers, use that, so you canb be familiar with
22:40 <@Riastradh> and there's a test repsitory called testsrc which is small to mess around with
22:40 <+krelz> how things will work.  Less issues after the real change happens.
22:41 <@Riastradh> Notes on usage: https://www.netbsd.org/developers/mercurial/ https://www.netbsd.org/developers/git/
22:41 <+krelz> Nothing can be :bad: in the tests, you can play safely
22:41 -!- is_netbsf [~is_netbsf@2a0d:3344:20d6:c310:5098:bce9:5377:9df8] has quit [Client Quit]
22:41 <@Cryo> Alright, again, thanks for coming. We are excited about the roadmap ahead and look forward to achieving these milestones together. Thank you for your time and your dedication to NetBSD.
22:42 <@Cryo> See you next year!
22:42 <@leot> Thank you!
22:42 <@Riastradh> There's also still read-only CVS access via anoncvs.test.n.o (testsrc only for now, will be everything once deployed) for access on small machines where git and hg have trouble running.
22:42 <+khorben> thanks @all!
22:42  * Cryo turns up the lights
22:43 -!- __martin [~martin@netbsd/releng/martin] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:43 -!- beech [[email protected]] has left #netbsd-agm []
22:43 -!- begbaj [~begbaj@user/begbaj] has left #netbsd-agm []
22:43 -!- fivedonuts [~charles@2601:5c2:0:28:2bae:349f:d93c:7526] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
22:43 -!- Guest26 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: thanks all]
22:43 -!- damax [~damax@gateway/tor-sasl/damax] has left #netbsd-agm []
22:43 -!- netbsd_jdc [[email protected]] has left #netbsd-agm []
22:43 -!- rjs44 [~rjs@2a10:d582:3181:0:6a05:caff:fe28:b1c7] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
22:43 -!- ktnb [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Quit]
22:43 -!- Uilebheist [~Uilebheis@user/uilebheist] has left #netbsd-agm []
22:43 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-m] by leot
22:43 -!- sborrill [[email protected]] has left #netbsd-agm []
22:43 -!- fvc70r [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: fvc70r]
22:43 <@Cryo> o/ have a great rest of your day
22:43 -!- jandberg [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:43 <@leot> You too! Thanks everyone for attending!
22:43 -!- spz changed the topic of #netbsd-agm to: The NetBSD Foundation Annual General Meeting - Next Meeting in 2027
22:44 <+racoon> thanks everyone, especially Riastradh for working on the repo conversion
22:44 < d-ra> thanks @all
22:44 -!- hamajima [[email protected]] has left #netbsd-agm []
22:44 <@Cryo> Thanks to leot and everyone behind the scenes
22:44 <@Cryo> Thanks to all of the presenters and people who worked on the presentation
22:45 -!- jun_ [~jun@2407:c800:3f11:1673:906b:909b:c9a8:fabc] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:45 -!- krelz [~kre@2001:fb1:128:2f8e:aaa1:59ff:feb1:ea7e] has quit [Quit: Bye to everyone who's still there]
22:45 -!- hannken [~hannken@2a03:2260:2009:2000::] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
22:45 -!- nbdholland [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:45 -!- Guest29 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
22:46 -!- taca [[email protected]] has left #netbsd-agm []
22:46 -!- Cryo [cryo@netbsd/security/cryo] has left #netbsd-agm [Leaving]
22:46 -!- nakayama [~takeshi@2403:7c00:e000:0:832a:604f:696f:bb9e] has quit [Quit: Started wasting time elsewhere]
22:46 -!- blckmaxima [~blckmaxim@2600:6c67:3700:114:b25b:a476:430a:21d0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]