Joe Pags (fb: joetalkshow )

Joe, Listened to your show last Monday evening. (note that I listen to a taped version not the live show as it doesn't air live in my locale) and wanted to ask you to take note of the following quotes and there authors about the separation of church and state and in general their views on religion. I you'd try to explain your stance in view of the stance of the founding fathers here quoted and why you disagree with their interpretation. I for one prefer their more informed view as they were the authors of the documents you so like to quote! Please do so in the last hour of your show if you can as that is the only portion I get to hear. Thanks. I apologize for the length of this post but it was necessary. See the following:The “Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary" was written in 1796, near the end of George Washington's second term, and later unanimously approved by congress and signed in 1797 by John Adams.Which included this statement:"The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." – Declaration of the U.S. Congress in 1797
There is no record of this opening statement of Article 11 ever raising even the slightest concern during the congressional review process.

"The United States have adventured upon a great and noble experiment, which is believed to have been hazarded in the absence of all previous precedent -- that of total separation of church and state. No religious establishment by law exists among us. The conscience is left free from all restraint and each is permitted to worship his maker after his own judgement ... Such is the great experiment which we have tried; our system of free government would be imperfect without it.", [President John Tyler, 10th US President and supporter of state-church separation]:"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." – Thomas Jefferson:“Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting ‘Jesus Christ,’ so that it would read ‘A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion,;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and [Muslim], the Hindu and Infidel of every denomination.” -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom:"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by [Religious] Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in history." – James Madison:"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church from the State." -- James Madison:"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man." – Thomas Jefferson:"Religious controversies always produce more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society." – George Washington:"I wish Christianity were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." – Benjamin Franklin:"Experience witnesses that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." – James Madison:"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." – Benjamin Franklin (This seems to me to clearly indicate that "True and Good Religion needs no help from the government either through legislation or monetary benefit.):"What influence, in fact, have religious establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." – James Madison:"Across the ages, clergy have been interested not in truth but only in wealth and power; when rational people have had difficulty swallowing their impious heresies, then the clergy have, with the help of the state, forced them down their throats." – Thomas Jefferson:"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years..." – Abraham Lincoln, 1862 (Note: Lincoln believed in God, and in the teachings of Jesus around the Golden Rule, but like Thomas Jefferson, Lincoln was not in agreement with the theocratic dogmatism of those who used religion for political purposes.): "Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private school, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the Church and the State for ever separate." Speech of President U.S. Grant ( R). 1875 Even almost a hundred years later this wise Republican recognized the proper understanding of the Constitutions statement on the governments stance regarding religion and there are a thousand other quotations from intellectuals, Lawyers, Politicians etc that substantiate this very same claim. Why are you just a lowly radio host as you claim purporting to have a more correct understanding of the beliefs of the founding fathers who wrote the very documents you quote?

I would also suggest that contrary to your belief that our Government was founded on Christianity that in fact our laws are more correctly founded on the writings of John Locke, the Hammurabic code,The laws of Greece, Roman Law and that of England. Our basic rights outlined in the Constitution are almost word for word from those signed by King Richard