[20:05:12] #eternally: Our first topic is gonna be about how the meta has changed post tier shift
[20:05:16] Miskin: eternally is uncute
[20:05:23] %i LIke CutE things: sun is fun
[20:05:30] #quziel: well, we got all these venu/ground cores goin on
[20:05:42] venomben: because of helio being nasty
[20:05:46] #quziel: partially that
[20:05:49] Dibs the Dreamer: venu hype > sap sipper vileplume fakehype
[20:05:52] #quziel: partially due to venu being real good
[20:05:54] #eternally: tru
[20:05:54] @PursuitOfHappiny: offensive water type(s) got way worse
[20:06:18] #quziel: another recent cahnge
[20:06:21] Miskin: we didnt have too many of those in the first place tho tbf
[20:06:21] #quziel: is sorta teh rise of alt
[20:06:27] Miskin: ugh FUCK alt wars
[20:06:30] #quziel: as a countermeasure to how good emboar got recently
[20:06:31] #eternally: there's not a bunch of fantastic water-types right now compared to pre-tier shift
[20:06:32] %i LIke CutE things: just run aggron
[20:06:34] @kay: I think helio didn't live up to the hype
[20:06:35] #eternally: bc of alt, losing seis etc
[20:06:36] %i LIke CutE things: emboar + aggron
[20:06:36] #quziel: luckily alt is really easy to take advantage of
[20:06:39] @kay: which is one big meta change
[20:06:58] @PursuitOfHappiny: rise in bulky grasses like venu
[20:07:28] venomben: i haven't seen many lix's in the past few days tbh. Bulky Grass has a big to do w/that, especially venu who legit mows it down
[20:07:33] #quziel: eh
[20:07:36] #quziel: lix is as common as ever
[20:07:41] #quziel: and the rise of curse is doing huge things for t
[20:07:51] #quziel: as it means its a lot less passive vs non-water types
[20:08:24] venomben: oh can someone please explain the logic behind steelvally ?
[20:08:27] #quziel: uh
[20:08:27] #eternally: seis leaving is another huge reason for lix being a thing again
[20:08:34] @PursuitOfHappiny: steelix is also a good safety policy vs lisk
[20:08:38] #quziel: basically its a defogger that checks all the threatening grass and ice types
[20:08:39] #eternally: and klinklang
[20:08:40] @kay: steel is a good typing, has decent bulk, parting shot, and defog venomben
[20:08:48] @kay: basically its a good typing mon that does cool stuff
[20:08:48] #quziel: which can be incredibly helpful for a lot of teams
[20:08:50] #Hootie: this meta is uh
[20:08:51] #Hootie: something.
[20:08:55] Yoshizilla315: Hey what's the current topic?
[20:08:56] @HJAD: here is a thing
[20:08:57] @kay: this meta is werid as fuck.
[20:09:02] #quziel: meta changes
[20:09:03] %i LIke CutE things: metagame after shifts yoshi
[20:09:04] @HJAD: why does lix gain popularity
[20:09:04] Luka~♕: Yoshizilla315, meta
[20:09:08] #eternally: how the meta has changed post tier shift yoshi
[20:09:09] @HJAD: with the rise of lisk
[20:09:11] #Hootie: seis leaving and lisk dropping is honestly a net negative imo
[20:09:17] @kay: ^
[20:09:18] @kay: 100%
[20:09:19] #Hootie: we lost a very good rocker
[20:09:26] Yoshizilla315: okay
[20:09:27] @kay: it wasn't only a rocker
[20:09:30] #Hootie: and have a mon that forces teams to run bulkier mons
[20:09:32] @kay: it was just good glue for any team
[20:09:33] %i LIke CutE things: i remember quziel hyping up magmortar just after shifts
[20:09:36] %i LIke CutE things: is that mon still good
[20:09:38] Yoshizilla315: well tbh I think the meta is pretty fun right now
[20:09:38] #Hootie: and it makes emboar thrive as a result
[20:09:49] #Hootie: and yeah magmortar is really sick btw
[20:09:50] Yoshizilla315: I haven't found too much trouble with some of the predicted threats
[20:09:53] Yoshizilla315: like Emboar and Heliolisk
[20:09:53] @HJAD: The question might be if
[20:09:53] #quziel: yeah
[20:09:54] #Hootie: very good mon
[20:09:56] #quziel: it still breaks a ton of teams
[20:09:59] @HJAD: Emboar is suspect worthy
[20:10:00] venomben: there aren't many things that deal well with emboar
[20:10:07] Yoshizilla315: I'd like to see an Emboar test tbh
[20:10:09] @HJAD: as a balance breaker with bu z move
[20:10:18] #Hootie: honestly suspect wise it's a toss up between boar and lisk
[20:10:19] @HJAD: its almost impossible to chevk
[20:10:28] Luka~♕: Emboar is on most teams I've played against
[20:10:28] #Hootie: but i don't really want to go on that tangent
[20:10:30] @kay: honestly after spamming so much lisk
[20:10:30] @HJAD: but get it wrong and scarf bones your ofgense
[20:10:32] @PursuitOfHappiny: lisk isnt suspect worthy imo
[20:10:35] @kay: idt lisk is as broken
[20:10:38] @kay: which is weird to say.
[20:10:39] Yoshizilla315: I agree, I think lisk isnt broken
[20:10:41] Yoshizilla315: as we think it is
[20:10:42] Plasmagby: Lisk is fine
[20:10:47] #quziel: honestly, lisk has sorta forced people to run ground types as their rocker
[20:10:51] venomben: lisk gets walled by cradily for gods sake
[20:10:52] Yoshizilla315: so what
[20:10:52] @HJAD: Thing with lisk is
[20:10:52] @kay: no its still broken
[20:10:53] Yoshizilla315: we do that anyway
[20:10:55] @HJAD: even if u run
[20:10:55] #quziel: which means you can't compress rocker and emboar check into one slot
[20:10:55] @kay: just idt as broken
[20:10:58] #quziel: aka drudd
[20:10:59] @HJAD: a ground type
[20:11:02] %i LIke CutE things: helio is broken the same way mega manectric is broken
[20:11:09] @HJAD: lisk just passes through it anyway
[20:11:09] #Hootie: idk lisk in practice is very irritating
[20:11:13] #quziel: well
[20:11:15] venomben: btw, I dont lnow if it is meta but cradily is a nice rocker (its not meta but still)
[20:11:19] @kay: yeah I agree hootie
[20:11:23] #quziel: imo lisk is dealt with best by having a ground type to deter volt spam
[20:11:28] @kay: a lot of times I jsut naturally find ways to play around it
[20:11:31] #Hootie: there's nothing besides the niche lanturn that stops it from bouncing around your team
[20:11:31] @kay: but building is a nightmare.
[20:11:31] #quziel: and then having an actual answer
[20:11:32] @HJAD: im assuming standard set is like switch voice surf gknot
[20:11:33] Yoshizilla315: It can be irraitating
[20:11:41] @HJAD: so idk how it influences teambuilding
[20:11:43] Plasmagby: Focus blast over knot
[20:11:48] #Hootie: and yes building with it in mind is a nightmare
[20:11:50] Yoshizilla315: but in practice I've been able to work around it
[20:11:52] @kay: focus blast > gknot
[20:11:53] @kay: hjad
[20:11:54] @HJAD: apart from "be faster than lisk"
[20:11:56] #quziel: well
[20:11:56] Yoshizilla315: but I actually do run a few checks
[20:11:56] Luka~♕: Agree Hootie ^^'
[20:11:58] #Hootie: ive noticed this a lot building for spl
[20:11:59] Yoshizilla315: such as Lanturn on my team
[20:12:02] #quziel: its more that you sorta need either mad hazards
[20:12:05] venomben: lisk cant touch bulky grass types tho
[20:12:07] #quziel: or a ground type/volt immunity
[20:12:08] ntertnthht3: could run dpulse to ruse your opponent
[20:12:08] #quziel: vs lisk
[20:12:12] ohaidude: so are we losing ambipom?
[20:12:12] #quziel: dpulse is no move
[20:12:14] %i LIke CutE things: lisk can just hyper voice the grasses
[20:12:15] @Stoned M&M: it can hyper voice venomben
[20:12:18] @HJAD: Lisk has stab voice venombem
[20:12:19] @kay: a lot of my teams now have just been
[20:12:21] @Stoned M&M: it does like 40 to spdef venu
[20:12:23] %i LIke CutE things: ambipom is probably leaving
[20:12:24] Yoshizilla315: how much does hyper voice do to spdef venu?
[20:12:25] Yoshizilla315: oh okay
[20:12:26] @kay: ground type + scarf hp fighting rotom
[20:12:26] #Hootie: i think sneasel is still a way to keep it in check at least
[20:12:27] #eternally: you need like spdef venu or gourgeist
[20:12:29] %i LIke CutE things: but it doesn't matter that much honestly
[20:12:32] @kay: its kinda sad
[20:12:33] @kay: lol
[20:12:40] Yoshizilla315: you can run the neomon combo with Mr.Mime + Lanturn
[20:12:42] Yoshizilla315: if you're that real
[20:12:45] Martin SAE: real men run Silvally-Grass
[20:12:46] @PursuitOfHappiny: i've been using spdef horse lately
[20:12:48] venomben: eternally shoutout to cradily and palosand for destroying lisk
[20:12:51] %i LIke CutE things: yo horse sun
[20:12:53] #eternally: lol
[20:12:54] Martin SAE: I've used uh
[20:12:54] ntertnthht3: ambipom leaving? man i was just digging p-up punch
[20:12:55] %i LIke CutE things: bring that back
[20:12:58] Martin SAE: SpD Torterra
[20:12:59] @kay: cradily is 2hko by fb
[20:13:00] @kay: btw!
[20:13:02] @HJAD: Neither of those destroy lisk
[20:13:02] Martin SAE: real nice vs Lisk
[20:13:05] Yoshizilla315: Torterra should actually be ranked
[20:13:06] @HJAD: dam
[20:13:07] %i LIke CutE things: just dodge focus blast
[20:13:08] Yoshizilla315: it's not half bad
[20:13:12] %i LIke CutE things: torterra to c+
[20:13:17] @HJAD: lisk is in a weird spot because
[20:13:17] venomben: kay when did focus blast ever hit 2x in a row for u
[20:13:19] Martin SAE: torterra's actually mad
[20:13:19] @PursuitOfHappiny: HJAD horse can tank a lo surf
[20:13:26] #quziel: !code
[20:13:26] |html|<div class="infobox"><details><summary>See code...</summary><div class="chat"><code style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: table">Venusaur @ Leftovers <br />Ability: Overgrow <br />EVs: 252 HP &#x2f; 100 Def &#x2f; 136 SpD &#x2f; 20 Spe <br />Bold Nature <br />IVs: 0 Atk <br />- Sludge Bomb <br />- Giga Drain <br />- Synthesis <br />- Sleep Powder <br /><br />Rhydon @ Eviolite <br />Ability: Lightning Rod <br />EVs: 252 HP &#x2f; 168 Atk &#x2f; 88 Spe <br />Adamant Nature <br />- Swords Dance <br />- Stealth Rock <br />- Earthquake <br />- Rock Blast </code></div></details></div>
[20:13:27] @PursuitOfHappiny: does like 50 iirc
[20:13:28] ntertnthht3: haunter seems alright as well as a scarfer
[20:13:33] #quziel: I've had some success with cores like this vs lisk
[20:13:35] Martin SAE: Lisk gets worn down
[20:13:36] Martin SAE: real fast
[20:13:38] @kay: whats 100def for on venu
[20:13:38] Martin SAE: by LO
[20:13:40] @kay: quziel
[20:13:40] #quziel: uh
[20:13:42] #Hootie: i think just
[20:13:44] %i LIke CutE things: haunter is cool
[20:13:45] #quziel: I think +2 eq on don
[20:13:46] Martin SAE: I run uh
[20:13:48] #Hootie: forcing lisk to do more guesswork
[20:13:53] #Hootie: is the best way to handle it
[20:13:57] @kay: it is hootie
[20:13:57] #Hootie: esp if you have a trapper
[20:13:59] Martin SAE: I've run more SpD
[20:13:59] #quziel: yeah, you need to make it so lisk can't just spam one move all game
[20:14:01] Luka~♕: Between Vika and Lisk, ground types seem v important
[20:14:01] @PursuitOfHappiny: Martin SAE is right
[20:14:04] #quziel: though magnet lisk sounds cute
[20:14:06] Martin SAE: on this Venu
[20:14:06] #quziel: or silk scarf
[20:14:06] Yoshizilla315: if it's Surf Lisk it doesnt kill Rhydon in one shot
[20:14:08] @kay: if you try to build in a way that 100% beats it
[20:14:10] Yoshizilla315: Grass Knot does tho
[20:14:10] @HJAD: run a ground type + special tank
[20:14:11] @kay: it wont work
[20:14:14] Martin SAE: hurts some MUs helps others
[20:14:17] @kay: you just have to out play it in practice
[20:14:25] @HJAD: or run offense and dont give up speed control
[20:14:28] #Hootie: one thing going against lisk is in order to run reliable elec stab
[20:14:32] #quziel: its a mon that is a gameplay rather than a teambuilding constraint after a while
[20:14:33] #Hootie: it has to give up coverage
[20:14:37] venomben: most lisks ive seen have hvoice, surf, tbolt and a 4th move
[20:14:44] #quziel: like, you have a ground type and a mon that beats it 1v1
[20:14:47] Yoshizilla315: you always want Vswitch imo
[20:14:50] Luka~♕: Volt Switch is v common venom
[20:14:50] #quziel: and you're often in an ok position
[20:14:59] @PursuitOfHappiny: yeah fast vswitch is nice
[20:15:09] allstarapology: doesn't it usually only use volt switch over bolt
[20:15:12] Yoshizilla315: some people run Tbolt/Vswitch/Grass Knot/Focus Blast
[20:15:20] #quziel: surf over gknot ime
[20:15:20] #eternally: tbh there's no set in stone set
[20:15:21] Martin SAE: i don't understand the point of GK
[20:15:26] Yoshizilla315: yeah me either
[20:15:26] #eternally: it runs basically anything you want
[20:15:27] venomben: legit havent seen it
[20:15:27] #quziel: gknot hits palos really
[20:15:27] Martin SAE: literally its only target is fucking
[20:15:28] Yoshizilla315: but that's what people use
[20:15:29] Martin SAE: uh
[20:15:31] Yoshizilla315: I personally use Surf
[20:15:31] Martin SAE: Gastro
[20:15:33] %i LIke CutE things: palossand
[20:15:33] @PursuitOfHappiny: gk hits a few things like gastro
[20:15:38] #Hootie: oh ya
[20:15:40] ntertnthht3: ive never understood voltturn, what's its purpose
[20:15:42] #Hootie: palossand
[20:15:46] @kay: momentum ntertnthht3
[20:15:47] #Hootie: is extremely mediocre
[20:15:47] #quziel: force your opponent into a vortex
[20:15:51] venomben: it allows you to switch easily
[20:15:52] #quziel: where they have to switch every turn or lose a mon
[20:15:52] @kay: if they switch in a wall on your u-turn/volt
[20:15:54] Luka~♕: ntertnthht3, killing with momentum
[20:15:54] Plasmagby: Momentum+hard hitters
[20:15:54] #eternally: gk is moreso just having reliable coverage that can blanket a ton of things
[20:16:00] @kay: you get a free switch into a breaker that breaks it
[20:16:03] #quziel: so you eventually chip them enough that they just die
[20:16:04] Martin SAE: Surf blankets loads already tho
[20:16:05] Yoshizilla315: gknot also prevents Rhydon from checking
[20:16:06] Martin SAE: like
[20:16:08] Yoshizilla315: if you're using the regular spread
[20:16:16] Martin SAE: GK feels kinda pointless
[20:16:16] Yoshizilla315: Surf from Lisk does like 90
[20:16:22] #quziel: on a different notte
[20:16:22] @HJAD: im wondering what the general consensus of the meta is
[20:16:25] Martin SAE: any chip = dead rhydon
[20:16:26] #quziel: colbur rotom
[20:16:28] #Hootie: worse
[20:16:29] #quziel: is pretty damn cool atm
[20:16:30] venomben: how does evio pilo do against lisk?
[20:16:31] #Hootie: than it used to be
[20:16:33] ntertnthht3: metas alright
[20:16:35] Yoshizilla315: uh it does fine
[20:16:38] @HJAD: because im rlly not feeling this meta at all
[20:16:39] Yoshizilla315: pilo takes 60 from surf
[20:16:40] Luka~♕: tbh I feel like surf is more reliable over gk anyway on lisk looking at the meta
[20:16:40] Yoshizilla315: so you can check
[20:16:46] #Hootie: nu was at its peak during snake
[20:16:47] ntertnthht3: better than when meloetta was here lmao
[20:16:49] @kay: its a ground type so if you pair it with a special wall
[20:16:50] #quziel: meta's really constraining to build in atm
[20:16:50] @kay: its enough
[20:16:53] Yoshizilla315: idk I honestly am loving this meta
[20:16:54] #quziel: honestly
[20:17:00] Martin SAE: there are like
[20:17:01] Yoshizilla315: I really think the only thing I don
[20:17:01] #Hootie: i will say
[20:17:05] #Hootie: altaria is damn good
[20:17:07] Martin SAE: a handful of things which make building atm rlly weird
[20:17:08] Yoshizilla315: dont* like are Lisk and Emboar
[20:17:08] #quziel: ye
[20:17:10] #Hootie: and should see more use
[20:17:11] venomben: nah cause you need either lisk or emboar to win
[20:17:12] #quziel: honeslty
[20:17:16] @HJAD: just dont run
[20:17:17] Yoshizilla315: they can be hard to build and play around
[20:17:18] @HJAD: ice beam
[20:17:18] Martin SAE: like u've got klinklang and boar and lisk and uh
[20:17:20] #Hootie: altaria is the best fogger
[20:17:20] Martin SAE: a few other things
[20:17:21] #quziel: I've seen a lot of success by just carrying boar + alt destroyer
[20:17:23] #eternally: altaria and type null should rise to NU by next tier shift
[20:17:25] #quziel: which is really fun atm
[20:17:25] @HJAD: as your stand alone move
[20:17:30] @HJAD: i hate that altaria
[20:17:32] #quziel: see aggron
[20:17:37] Martin SAE: IDK how type null managed to not rise
[20:17:42] Luka~♕: ^
[20:17:45] Yoshizilla315: HJAD do you hate Altaria for being too passive too?
[20:17:55] Yoshizilla315: I've seen people argue that
[20:17:55] @HJAD: no i just hate ice beam altaria
[20:17:57] Yoshizilla315: oh
[20:17:59] @PursuitOfHappiny: ladder doesn't know type null is a thing
[20:17:59] ntertnthht3: autopolicy + sturdy memes are fun with aggron
[20:18:00] Yoshizilla315: yeah that's ungood
[20:18:01] @HJAD: i think its a great mon overall
[20:18:03] #quziel: naw
[20:18:07] Plasmagby: Its super good
[20:18:07] #quziel: just cb or sub-punch aggron
[20:18:11] #quziel: are the only ones I care about
[20:18:12] @HJAD: flame thrower toxic roost defog
[20:18:15] Yoshizilla315: Type: Null seemed everywhere on the ladder
[20:18:18] Yoshizilla315: especially during the last test
[20:18:20] #Hootie: ice beam has its uses
[20:18:21] #quziel: though sub-punch is more fun than good
[20:18:30] @HJAD: is the only moveset u should consider outside of defensive
[20:18:33] #Hootie: but flame is generally better
[20:18:34] #quziel: ice beam is honestly just for that there drudd matchup
[20:18:35] Yoshizilla315: I wish Altaria had room for Roost
[20:18:37] ntertnthht3: i remember a while back i said type null was good and everyone was like nah man no good recovery means its bad
[20:18:37] Yoshizilla315: er Roar
[20:18:42] @HJAD: the only rsn ive seen is to hit other taria and rhydon
[20:18:55] #Hootie: it's neutral damage on lix still
[20:18:58] @kay: ntertnthht3 the only time people said null was bad was when we had p2
[20:18:58] @kay: lol
[20:18:59] Yoshizilla315: how much does Rock. Blast do to alt
[20:18:59] #Hootie: it 1v1s non curse
[20:19:00] #eternally: ive only seen ice beam about 2-3 times and that was just in a tournament game where you often see techs like that
[20:19:02] #Hootie: regardless
[20:19:04] @HJAD: and the rhydon point is sorta moot
[20:19:05] #eternally: its definitely not common at all lol
[20:19:06] Yoshizilla315: arent people running complete defensive?
[20:19:10] @HJAD: because u can toxic and roost stall
[20:19:12] #Hootie: no
[20:19:13] Yoshizilla315: yeah
[20:19:18] #Hootie: i run different spreads
[20:19:24] #Hootie: depending on the team
[20:19:25] Yoshizilla315: it depends on what you want to check I suppose
[20:19:28] venomben: honestly what does accelgor do?
[20:19:33] #quziel: its fast as fuck
[20:19:34] #Hootie: don't run full spdef though
[20:19:34] Yoshizilla315: I generally want it to check Boar though
[20:19:41] #quziel: and hits hard enough to pressure frailer teamstyles
[20:19:44] Yoshizilla315: Accelgor has a nice damage output with Specs
[20:19:45] @HJAD: Accelgor is fast specs
[20:19:46] Plasmagby: It's fast and sets spikes
[20:19:48] Yoshizilla315: and gets up Spikes
[20:19:48] #quziel: can also do a suicide lead with spikes and final gambi
[20:19:52] #Hootie: either calm with enough spdef to softcheck lisk
[20:19:59] @HJAD: one of my favourite oras ru teams
[20:20:00] #Hootie: while still beating scarf boar
[20:20:04] Yoshizilla315: ah
[20:20:05] @HJAD: Had spikes gambit accelgor
[20:20:06] #Hootie: phys def is fine too
[20:20:06] Yoshizilla315: that's a nice idea
[20:20:08] Yoshizilla315: what spread is it?
[20:20:16] #Hootie: uh i ran 96 calm
[20:20:20] #Hootie: rest in phys def
[20:20:20] Yoshizilla315: oh that set
[20:20:21] Yoshizilla315: yeah
[20:20:37] @HJAD: has anyone had a look at aurorus
[20:20:40] @kay: I've seen EQ altaria a few times
[20:20:42] @HJAD: like a specs set
[20:20:44] @kay: so you areen't croak bait
[20:20:45] #quziel: hard to justify over vanilluxe
[20:20:55] Yoshizilla315: the only experience I have with Aurorus
[20:20:55] @HJAD: fair
[20:20:57] #quziel: sure ground coverage is nice
[20:20:59] Yoshizilla315: is having to build with CB Aurorus
[20:21:01] #quziel: but the extra speed is huge
[20:21:01] Yoshizilla315: for something
[20:21:03] @HJAD: consider this tho
[20:21:05] Martin SAE: aurorus is just
[20:21:06] Martin SAE: lead
[20:21:09] Yoshizilla315: it's really ungood
[20:21:12] @HJAD: with the rise of drudd and altaria
[20:21:12] Yoshizilla315: like I would only use lead
[20:21:13] Martin SAE: other sets are Not Things
[20:21:15] Martin SAE: ®
[20:21:15] @HJAD: would maybe
[20:21:17] @HJAD: rp cm
[20:21:20] @HJAD: with z blizz
[20:21:24] #Hootie: as a rocker it's still good
[20:21:24] Yoshizilla315: thats really hard to set up
[20:21:26] Yoshizilla315: on paper
[20:21:27] @HJAD: be a viable set
[20:21:32] #Hootie: but outside of that role it's niche
[20:21:43] #Hootie: no way double dance would work
[20:21:44] Yoshizilla315: you need a calm mind AND a rock polish for it to get going
[20:21:49] Yoshizilla315: I just cant see that working in practice
[20:21:58] @HJAD: the meta is sorta filled with
[20:22:00] #Hootie: at least with scarf vanilluxe
[20:22:00] #eternally: and you get walled by fire-types :(
[20:22:01] @HJAD: Xatu drudd altaria
[20:22:02] %i LIke CutE things: speaking of z-blizzard
[20:22:05] %i LIke CutE things: anyone try out frosttom
[20:22:08] #Hootie: is that it's fast right off the bat
[20:22:10] Yoshizilla315: frosttom is flames
[20:22:13] #Hootie: and still hits hard
[20:22:17] Yoshizilla315: I havent tried it myself but
[20:22:21] Yoshizilla315: I'm looking into building with it
[20:22:23] %i LIke CutE things: heard from adaire it was cool
[20:22:32] #quziel: I've tried it on weird double defog builds
[20:22:35] Yoshizilla315: lol adaire introduced it to me in STABmons
[20:22:36] @HJAD: also another cobsideration
[20:22:39] Yoshizilla315: it gets Spore and Fusion Flare in one set
[20:22:45] %i LIke CutE things: use blue flare
[20:22:52] Yoshizilla315: that's the move lopl
[20:22:55] @HJAD: how much does z leech life from alolaslash do to slowbro
[20:23:05] ntertnthht3: a lot
[20:23:07] Yoshizilla315: ^
[20:23:07] @PursuitOfHappiny: +2 kos i believe
[20:23:10] Yoshizilla315: really?
[20:23:19] @HJAD: i feel like it could be reliable take on to offense
[20:23:19] @kay: yh
[20:23:22] Yoshizilla315: I would expect it to do like 80 at least
[20:23:27] #quziel: oh
[20:23:28] @kay: we played around with it after aveil ban
[20:23:30] #quziel: on the note of weird sweepers
[20:23:31] venomben: alolash gets melted by emboar in more ways than one
[20:23:31] Yoshizilla315: but idk killing seems a bit farfetchd lol
[20:23:32] #quziel: how about that kabutops
[20:23:33] @HJAD: which the meta shifted to
[20:23:33] #quziel: like
[20:23:36] @kay: good on paper, wasn't great in practice
[20:23:36] Plasmagby: +2 super effective z I'd hope would kill
[20:23:38] %i LIke CutE things: +2 252 Atk Sandslash-Alola Savage Spin-Out (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 392-462 (99.4 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
[20:23:41] #quziel: another mon that just straight annihilates alt
[20:23:42] Yoshizilla315: oh shit
[20:23:46] #Hootie: bleh
[20:23:48] #quziel: and beating slowbro is nice as hell
[20:23:51] @kay: [20:23] #quziel: how about that kabutops
[20:23:51] @kay: literally the second coming of barb.
[20:23:52] #Hootie: offense is not that great rn
[20:23:52] Yoshizilla315: Kabutops sounds fun right now
[20:23:54] @kay: just less broken.
[20:23:54] Martin SAE: i just wish alolan slash had like
[20:23:57] Martin SAE: more speed
[20:24:04] Based Loser: rip Slowbro
[20:24:04] Martin SAE: like base 80 or smth
[20:24:04] venomben: for real tho
[20:24:05] Yoshizilla315: if only it got Shell sMash
[20:24:09] ntertnthht3: i like farfetch'ds gimick of stick + high crit move = 100% crit
[20:24:09] #Hootie: especially ho
[20:24:13] Yoshizilla315: lol I remember people called Omastar the second coming of Barb
[20:24:14] %i LIke CutE things: the second coming of barbaracle is crustle i swear
[20:24:15] @kay: offense feels shit just because you have to get around both helio and scarf boar
[20:24:23] @kay: like its doable at some level
[20:24:25] #Hootie: klinklang ruins the viability of ho
[20:24:26] @kay: but its just horrible to play
[20:24:32] %i LIke CutE things: sun is the only hyper offense
[20:24:35] Yoshizilla315: HO seems okay. right now
[20:24:38] %i LIke CutE things: i dunno if rain is a thing
[20:24:38] Yoshizilla315: I tried building a webs team
[20:24:39] @kay: eh you can build HO i nways that you don't give it room to set up
[20:24:45] Yoshizilla315: It doesnt seem to work
[20:24:48] #Hootie: i mean
[20:24:58] @kay: vut if it does
[20:24:58] venomben: oh wow
[20:24:59] #Hootie: all ho should have whims with memento
[20:25:00] @kay: you literally lose.
[20:25:05] venomben: Jellicent vs emboar
[20:25:06] Yoshizilla315: that
[20:25:06] #Hootie: and that right there is set up bait
[20:25:09] Yoshizilla315: doesnt affect klinklang
[20:25:15] Yoshizilla315: so that doesnt solve that problem
[20:25:16] #quziel: jellicent is sorta really shit atm, ngl
[20:25:23] @kay: jelli should drop to pu
[20:25:24] Plasmagby: What are good partners with klingklang?
[20:25:27] @HJAD: also bd zang
[20:25:31] #Hootie: jelli with lisk around is bad
[20:25:32] #quziel: sneasel is always fun
[20:25:32] venomben: idk i always liked a special defense jelli with willo
[20:25:35] @HJAD: that might be smth to try
[20:25:39] #quziel: as a way to force steelix to get its lefties removed
[20:25:41] Yoshizilla315: zang -> UR
[20:25:52] %i LIke CutE things: everyone ran klinklang with probopass when klang was becoming a thing
[20:25:56] ntertnthht3: marill > zangoose
[20:25:56] #Hootie: i think zangoose is pretty risky to run
[20:26:00] Yoshizilla315: I agree
[20:26:07] Yoshizilla315: Probopass is also still cool
[20:26:09] @kay: zangoose is like webs
[20:26:13] @HJAD: in PU its sorta bad because of
[20:26:14] @kay: you either win or lose on match up
[20:26:17] Yoshizilla315: yeah
[20:26:18] #Hootie: needs a lot of support and relies on specific matchups
[20:26:21] @HJAD: loads of fast ghosts and rocks
[20:26:28] #Hootie: face a rotom and it's deadweight
[20:26:31] #Hootie: in most cases
[20:26:33] @HJAD: here we have a ton of
[20:26:38] @HJAD: steelix and slowbro
[20:26:41] @PursuitOfHappiny: pu has kanga aswell
[20:26:44] @HJAD: in theory it should be ok?
[20:26:46] ntertnthht3: +20 speed to zangoose and id call it insta nu
[20:26:49] Yoshizilla315: oh yeah brolix is becoming popular again
[20:26:58] #quziel: +20 speed ongoose would be like RU or UU
[20:27:01] Yoshizilla315: ^
[20:27:01] #quziel: thing would be mad op
[20:27:09] @Blast: tbt when someone wanted a linoone test in oras
[20:27:18] Yoshizilla315: to be fair
[20:27:22] Yoshizilla315: it's still slower than Mismagius
[20:27:30] venomben: Shoutout to evio bronzor
[20:27:30] %i LIke CutE things: 110 is not slower than missy
[20:27:33] Yoshizilla315: oh shit
[20:27:33] ntertnthht3: how is mismagius even ranked what does it even do
[20:27:34] Yoshizilla315: your right
[20:27:36] Yoshizilla315: you're*
[20:27:37] @HJAD: Missy i dont think
[20:27:39] Yoshizilla315: I suck :(
[20:27:41] @HJAD: Is in the best spit
[20:27:42] @HJAD: spot
[20:27:49] Yoshizilla315: what rank is it rn
[20:27:50] #quziel: missy ain't great atm
[20:27:52] @kay: I think missy is actually good rn
[20:27:54] #quziel: but it still punishes spin
[20:27:57] %i LIke CutE things: mismagius is intended to be used as sort of a stallbreaker with nasty plot and taunt and z-ghost
[20:27:58] @HJAD: coming out of the sneasel no ban
[20:27:59] @PursuitOfHappiny: if you're a ghost type slower than sneasel
[20:28:00] Yoshizilla315: if it's A-
[20:28:01] @kay: like taunt z-np
[20:28:01] #quziel: and taunt NP makes bulky builds rather sad
[20:28:02] @kay: st ill does shit
[20:28:04] @PursuitOfHappiny: you're not in a good spot
[20:28:05] Yoshizilla315: I think Mismagius is fine rn
[20:28:06] @HJAD: its kinda a rip
[20:28:07] #Hootie: missy is a mon that's good if you face sneasel
[20:28:08] %i LIke CutE things: z-nasty plot
[20:28:09] #Hootie: bad if not
[20:28:10] %i LIke CutE things: what does that do
[20:28:14] @kay: er
[20:28:15] #Hootie: err
[20:28:16] Yoshizilla315: no you run z move
[20:28:16] @kay: didn't mean z-np
[20:28:17] Yoshizilla315: and nasty plot
[20:28:19] #Hootie: other way around
[20:28:20] #Hootie: mb
[20:28:22] @kay: I mean z move with NP
[20:28:26] @PursuitOfHappiny: same with sigi Hootie
[20:28:27] %abejas: you can live pursuit
[20:28:29] @kay: like z-ball
[20:28:30] @kay: oops
[20:28:31] #quziel: need to try out rock-z again tbh
[20:28:33] %abejas: and they always click suit
[20:28:36] #Hootie: ya i dont like sigi for that reason
[20:28:40] Yoshizilla315: what does rockium hit
[20:28:41] @HJAD: sneas has super high usage
[20:28:44] %i LIke CutE things: incineroar
[20:28:45] #Hootie: the best we got to punish pursuit is klinklang
[20:28:46] Yoshizilla315: ah
[20:28:47] #quziel: houndoom, incin, braviary
[20:28:50] Yoshizilla315: not a bad idea
[20:28:50] @Blast: i'm pretty sure it dies to suit
[20:28:50] @HJAD: stuff like misma is just out of favour
[20:28:52] #Hootie: but with everyone running lix and bro
[20:28:57] #Hootie: it goes against it
[20:28:58] Yoshizilla315: especially since those things seem to becoming popular
[20:29:00] #quziel: there is aroma though
[20:29:00] @Blast: unless you're talking colbur
[20:29:01] #quziel: Hootie
[20:29:02] Yoshizilla315: at least from what I've sen on the ladder
[20:29:02] venomben: honestly scrafty is cheeks why is it NU? Aside from ddance, like, it pretty much gets destrored
[20:29:10] Yoshizilla315: Scrafty is actually decent rn
[20:29:10] #Hootie: oh that's true
[20:29:11] #quziel: because if they don't have whims
[20:29:14] %i LIke CutE things: it runs through unprepared teams
[20:29:14] #quziel: ddance can break teams
[20:29:15] #Hootie: aroma is overlooked
[20:29:16] Yoshizilla315: best it's been in a minute imo
[20:29:17] @HJAD: scrafty is decent imo
[20:29:17] #quziel: especially with chople DD
[20:29:19] #quziel: yeah
[20:29:19] @PursuitOfHappiny: thats why i think colbur rotom isnt good cause itdoesnt save it from knock
[20:29:25] #quziel: aroma isn't explored anywhere near enough
[20:29:27] @HJAD: spdef bu is a personal favourite
[20:29:29] Plasmagby: Scrafty is solid if there is no opposing whims
[20:29:29] #quziel: it still does good work
[20:29:33] #quziel: though venu hurt it a ton
[20:29:35] Yoshizilla315: Disjunction had a good Aromatisse team
[20:29:35] ntertnthht3: something else ive been toying with is mguard evio duosion w/ aarmor cm psyshock and recover. its great against something thats not a dark type or something with knocc off
[20:29:37] Yoshizilla315: but rip Seis
[20:29:58] Yoshizilla315: that reminds me when I tried to use Musharna
[20:29:58] #Hootie: i would say duo is unviable atm
[20:30:01] %i LIke CutE things: seis might drop again this tier shift
[20:30:02] @HJAD: ntert duosion is pretty good in hazards metas
[20:30:02] venomben: ntertnthht3 how many things use knock off tho
[20:30:02] #Hootie: too many pursuit mons
[20:30:06] @HJAD: ala bw2 nu
[20:30:08] #Hootie: lots of stuff with knock or trick
[20:30:09] Yoshizilla315: ilct does it quick drop?
[20:30:12] #Hootie: to cripple null
[20:30:14] %i LIke CutE things: probably
[20:30:16] #quziel: interestingly enough, taht set also hard loses to ID null
[20:30:17] @HJAD: but hazards here are basically worthless
[20:30:17] Yoshizilla315: ohh nice
[20:30:21] @PursuitOfHappiny: oh and people should mess around with 50% health berries more
[20:30:21] Yoshizilla315: getting Seis back would be huge
[20:30:21] @HJAD: too much xatu and defog
[20:30:25] #Hootie: so that kinda screws duos chances to sweep
[20:30:29] #quziel: eh, toxic plate garb is still really nice
[20:30:36] @HJAD: not to mention sneasel everwhere
[20:30:37] Yoshizilla315: I think offensive garb is medicre rn
[20:30:43] Yoshizilla315: mediocre*
[20:30:45] @HJAD: that in its own would put me off
[20:31:10] Plasmagby: How good is sneasel?
[20:31:12] Yoshizilla315: very
[20:31:13] ntertnthht3: very
[20:31:16] @PursuitOfHappiny: top3 mon
[20:31:18] Yoshizilla315: ^
[20:31:20] @HJAD: top1mon
[20:31:20] #Hootie: really
[20:31:22] @Blast: unbad
[20:31:24] #Hootie: xatu isn't used a lot
[20:31:29] Plasmagby: Top 3 emboar, lisk, sneasel?
[20:31:29] #Hootie: not in this meta
[20:31:31] Yoshizilla315: last month's usage stats
[20:31:34] #Hootie: it dropped off a lot
[20:31:34] venomben: question, isnt houndoom outclassed by scarf/specs delhox
[20:31:36] Yoshizilla315: it was like
[20:31:37] #quziel: hmm
[20:31:40] Yoshizilla315: 3rd most used
[20:31:41] Yoshizilla315: or something
[20:31:42] @HJAD: i still dont think
[20:31:43] #Hootie: spikes are actually pretty underrated atm
[20:31:43] ntertnthht3: doom has plot
[20:31:43] %i LIke CutE things: delphox can't pursuit trap delphox
[20:31:47] #quziel: lets discuss sweepers/wallbreakers that punish the mere existence of sneasel
[20:31:47] @HJAD: Xatu usage is at a point
[20:31:52] #quziel: cause that's always a fun thing in the meta
[20:31:52] @HJAD: where u can justify
[20:31:55] @HJAD: say a ferroseed
[20:31:58] Yoshizilla315: all the fire types in the tier
[20:32:02] Yoshizilla315: play considerably different toles
[20:32:03] Yoshizilla315: roles*
[20:32:08] #quziel: ex. aroma, klinklang, bu emboar
[20:32:10] #Hootie: ferroseed has more issues than just xatu
[20:32:23] %i LIke CutE things: man i wish lilligant punished sneasel existing
[20:32:32] @HJAD: yache lilli
[20:32:32] venomben: when incineroar and passimian get HAs
[20:32:34] @Blast: i wanna play around with pawniard sometime
[20:32:39] %i LIke CutE things: pawniard is cool
[20:32:42] %i LIke CutE things: i like it
[20:32:43] Yoshizilla315: venomben that is unforseeable right now
[20:32:47] #eternally: pawniard webs
[20:32:49] Yoshizilla315: Incineroar with Intimidate would be great though
[20:32:50] @HJAD: I built a super fun oras team
[20:32:52] #Hootie: not pawn
[20:32:55] @HJAD: life orb sd low kick pawn
[20:32:55] ntertnthht3: ive been thinking about scarf kingler and it seems excellent but i feel like there's a catch im not getting
[20:32:56] #quziel: I saw double dark type webs
[20:32:56] #Hootie: the xy nu threat
[20:32:58] #quziel: which was pretty spooky
[20:32:59] @HJAD: +crodino
[20:33:09] @HJAD: so much fun imo
[20:33:16] @PursuitOfHappiny: pawn gives me nightmares
[20:33:19] @PursuitOfHappiny: i blame Blast
[20:33:28] @HJAD: ntert that set seems rlly had
[20:33:29] venomben: pawnaid is not fun to go against
[20:33:30] @Blast: bop
[20:33:35] @HJAD: not with slowbro everywhere
[20:33:51] %i LIke CutE things: what do you have for a well-played pawniard
[20:33:57] @PursuitOfHappiny: speaking of scarf kingler
[20:34:03] @Blast: but yeah pawn does seem kinda promising
[20:34:04] @PursuitOfHappiny: i won a roomtour with it earlier lol
[20:34:04] @HJAD: unless ur looking specifically to lure slowbro
[20:34:06] ntertnthht3: x-scissor off of base 130 cant be that ineffective right?
[20:34:07] @HJAD: to get a toxic
[20:34:08] @Blast: on paper at least
[20:34:15] @Blast: beats non-id null
[20:34:20] @Blast: and knocks steelix
[20:34:22] @PursuitOfHappiny: HJAD scarf toxic stomping tantrum
[20:34:22] @HJAD: u dont want to be locked into xscizzor
[20:34:22] @kay: id null
[20:34:23] @kay: <3
[20:34:27] #quziel: 252+ Atk Kingler X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 130-154 (32.9 - 39%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
[20:34:30] #quziel: slowbro's mega fat
[20:34:32] Yoshizilla315: L
[20:34:32] @HJAD: thats a net
[20:34:34] @HJAD: 0 damage
[20:34:35] ntertnthht3: ouch
[20:34:38] @HJAD: after regeb
[20:34:40] @HJAD: btw
[20:34:42] #quziel: yeah
[20:34:51] venomben: basically switch out on slowbro the
[20:34:53] venomben: then*
[20:34:55] #quziel: you'd have to do something on the order of liquidation/knock off/toxic/filler tbh
[20:35:08] @PursuitOfHappiny: stomping tantrum nails dry skinners
[20:35:14] @HJAD: liquid super knock toxic
[20:35:18] @HJAD: maybe subtoxic?
[20:35:22] @HJAD: with lo sheer force
[20:35:37] %abejas: you know what mon is really fun to use this meta? z crabobaminable
[20:35:41] venomben: lo sheer agility/knock/liquid
[20:35:43] %i LIke CutE things: give kingler lunge
[20:35:44] Yoshizilla315: crabominale lol
[20:35:52] %i LIke CutE things: crabominable
[20:35:53] #Hootie: the crab is cool
[20:35:55] @HJAD: Crab is lit
[20:35:56] #quziel: crab is cool
[20:35:58] #quziel: does great stuff
[20:36:01] @HJAD: i saw zuku rape snag with it
[20:36:04] @PursuitOfHappiny: nu is crabmeta basicly lmao
[20:36:05] Pokemonisfun: walled by pyukumuku tho
[20:36:06] venomben: crabs need more love
[20:36:06] @Blast: crabman
[20:36:07] @HJAD: that was fun
[20:36:08] Yoshizilla315: the speed just
[20:36:12] Yoshizilla315: drives me away from it
[20:36:15] ntertnthht3: crabs are underrated
[20:36:16] venomben: Crustle is fun as fudge
[20:36:16] %abejas: thunderpunch
[20:36:19] #quziel: speed is enough to beat slow shit
[20:36:20] %i LIke CutE things: i love crustle
[20:36:21] %abejas: into z tpunch
[20:36:22] #Hootie: i think in a lot of cases
[20:36:25] %i LIke CutE things: it's my favorite mon in nu
[20:36:26] #Hootie: medi is generally better
[20:36:29] %abejas: blows pyuku back
[20:36:30] #Hootie: bc of the speed
[20:36:32] Yoshizilla315: tpunch does 35 max to bro
[20:36:36] #Hootie: and similar power + coverage
[20:36:41] #quziel: eh, coming in on sneasel is a huge plus
[20:36:42] venomben: i LIke CutE things isnt crustle pu?
[20:36:42] @Blast: i assume you'd use crab on tr
[20:36:43] #quziel: well
[20:36:43] #quziel: at times
[20:36:44] %i LIke CutE things: yes
[20:36:49] %i LIke CutE things: it's my favorite mon in nu
[20:36:50] Yoshizilla315: crab on TR
[20:36:51] Yoshizilla315: is fire
[20:36:53] venomben: oh i c
[20:37:02] venomben: yo thats it im making a crab team
[20:37:02] @Blast: otherwise just use a faster fighting
[20:37:03] %abejas: 252+ Atk Iron Fist Crabominable Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 148-176 (37.5 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
[20:37:09] %abejas: 37 min.
[20:37:15] #Hootie: needs cb
[20:37:17] @kay: ^
[20:37:18] @kay: cb it
[20:37:24] #Hootie: cb is an easy 2hko
[20:37:24] %abejas: yeah thats the downside
[20:37:25] @kay: or even L
[20:37:27] @kay: LO*
[20:37:31] @PursuitOfHappiny: always lo
[20:37:35] #Hootie: but lo medi tpunch
[20:37:37] Yoshizilla315: quziel
[20:37:39] Yoshizilla315: what item was crab
[20:37:41] Yoshizilla315: on that TR team
[20:37:41] #Hootie: is not far off in damage
[20:37:41] #quziel: LO
[20:37:42] ntertnthht3: what's the secret sauce to defeating the pink man himself
[20:37:45] Yoshizilla315: ah
[20:37:52] @kay: 252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Crabominable Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 192-229 (48.7 - 58.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
[20:37:52] #quziel: uh
[20:37:58] #Hootie: it's not like the typing makes it want to switch in on much either
[20:37:59] #quziel: there's a fair number of mons that take huge advantage of bro
[20:37:59] @kay: much better
[20:38:01] #quziel: see guzzlord
[20:38:11] venomben: cradily
[20:38:11] #quziel: or toxic drudd
[20:38:14] #Hootie: guzzlord is super good
[20:38:24] Yoshizilla315: I havent seen much Guzz lately
[20:38:26] #Hootie: ive been liking specs with knock as a filler
[20:38:28] #quziel: or any grass type if you're feeling super ballsy
[20:38:28] @PursuitOfHappiny: i disagree :/
[20:38:30] ntertnthht3: yeah but fairy wind makes me scoot away from it
[20:38:33] @PursuitOfHappiny: whimsi is everywhere
[20:38:34] @kay: do you guys think guzz will be good still if we get goodra?
[20:38:34] #Hootie: so you knock null's leftovers
[20:38:37] #quziel: z-move guzz is also cute
[20:38:48] Yoshizilla315: hm
[20:38:53] %abejas: guzz still gets knock
[20:38:54] #Hootie: whims isn't the greatest switch in to guzz
[20:38:55] Yoshizilla315: Dt goodra
[20:38:57] Yoshizilla315: oops
[20:39:01] #Hootie: i don't even see as much whims anymore
[20:39:01] %abejas: ofc no one uses it
[20:39:06] venomben: yo I have no idea how to use z moves... like I feel like Id rather have different items on nearly every mon
[20:39:06] #Hootie: not with venu and all the steels
[20:39:08] @kay: poor whims
[20:39:09] @Blast: you still check phox way better than goodra
[20:39:09] Yoshizilla315: goodra seems promising
[20:39:11] #quziel: on the note of slow shit
[20:39:13] Yoshizilla315: but Guzzlord has Knock Off
[20:39:13] #eternally: whims got pretty overexposed a month or so ago
[20:39:15] %i LIke CutE things: whimsicott a+ -> d
[20:39:16] #quziel: vikavolt is suprisingly cool atm
[20:39:19] #eternally: too prepped for now
[20:39:19] #quziel: and does so much work
[20:39:19] @kay: YES
[20:39:22] @kay: VIKA IS GREAT.
[20:39:23] #quziel: though
[20:39:25] #Hootie: guzz still threatens a lot of teams
[20:39:27] %abejas: vika is so good
[20:39:28] #quziel: run a fuck ton of creep on your vika's
[20:39:30] ntertnthht3: curse outrage resttalk sliggoo is a good meme
[20:39:34] Yoshizilla315: I remember when Vika was A+
[20:39:35] #quziel: as you gotta outcreep all the base 50s
[20:39:42] %i LIke CutE things: vika should go back to a+
[20:39:42] %abejas: remember when sliggoo was not a meme?
[20:39:43] Yoshizilla315: and we were vouching for S rank
[20:39:46] %abejas: give us oras
[20:39:47] %abejas: back
[20:39:47] Yoshizilla315: good times
[20:39:50] @PursuitOfHappiny: vika is good but there's a faster vika now
[20:39:50] #Hootie: vika is ok
[20:39:59] #quziel: aint' perfect
[20:40:02] Yoshizilla315: yeah I think vika iso kay
[20:40:05] %abejas: PursuitOfHappiny the faster vika cant switch into lix
[20:40:06] #quziel: but it barrels through specific electric resists
[20:40:10] #Hootie: it still has a hard time with all the offensive fires
[20:40:12] #quziel: uh
[20:40:15] ntertnthht3: what was gf thinking when they gave it base 43 fast
[20:40:16] @PursuitOfHappiny: thats true
[20:40:21] #quziel: totem takes 10% from slam
[20:40:21] %abejas: and doesnt get recovery
[20:40:24] @kay: I mean the only one is really boar
[20:40:32] #Hootie: totem is a straight upgrade for sure
[20:40:34] #quziel: I guess gyro annoys you
[20:40:36] @kay: as it can switch into eballs it might be forced to go for, or non-z buzz
[20:40:40] #quziel: but hslam lix legit heals vika
[20:40:40] Yoshizilla315: oh yeah always use totem vikavolt
[20:40:42] venomben: boar needs sus but then ill be sad
[20:40:52] Yoshizilla315: sus doesnt = ban
[20:40:54] #quziel: just gotta stay away from toxic
[20:40:58] %i LIke CutE things: see: sneasel suspect
[20:40:59] @kay: I've been spamming so much vika
[20:41:00] Yoshizilla315: we didnt ban Sneasel
[20:41:03] @kay: mons actually so good.
[20:41:04] %abejas: toxic is a broken move
[20:41:06] %abejas: pls ban
[20:41:14] Yoshizilla315: Tbh I think the Sneasel test was a refreshing experience
[20:41:14] venomben: tr
[20:41:14] @Blast: what spreads do you run on vika
[20:41:16] Yoshizilla315: for tiering
[20:41:21] @Blast: jw
[20:41:24] ntertnthht3: i heard a rumor about m-ampharos dropping, does it sound possible
[20:41:32] #eternally: probably not for a while
[20:41:33] Yoshizilla315: isnt that like good in RU
[20:41:38] %i LIke CutE things: i think i've seen it get hyped in ru
[20:41:40] #eternally: yeah its not __that__ bad
[20:41:42] @PursuitOfHappiny: !code
[20:41:42] |html|<div class="infobox"><details><summary>See code...</summary><div class="chat"><code style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: table">Vikavolt @ Leftovers <br />Ability: Levitate <br />EVs: 248 HP &#x2f; 92 SpA &#x2f; 92 SpD &#x2f; 76 Spe <br />Modest Nature <br />IVs: 0 Atk <br />- Volt Switch <br />- Bug Buzz <br />- Energy Ball <br />- Roost</code></div></details></div>
[20:41:47] %i LIke CutE things: because of stuff like mandibuzz or whatever
[20:41:54] venomben: it we could get araquanid
[20:41:55] @PursuitOfHappiny: old spread tho
[20:41:56] Yoshizilla315: poh explain
[20:41:57] snaga: what does that spread even do
[20:41:58] snaga: yea
[20:41:58] venomben: if*
[20:41:59] Yoshizilla315: thats no spread
[20:42:00] #eternally: seismitoad and blastoise seem plausible though (speaking this next quickdrop shift)
[20:42:02] %i LIke CutE things: i don't think we're getting araquanid
[20:42:03] Yoshizilla315: I dont remember ysing that
[20:42:11] %abejas: !code
[20:42:11] |html|<div class="infobox"><details><summary>See code...</summary><div class="chat"><code style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: table">Vikavolt @ Buginium Z <br />Ability: Levitate <br />EVs: 248 HP &#x2f; 252 Def &#x2f; 8 SpA <br />Bold Nature <br />IVs: 0 Atk <br />- Roost <br />- Bug Buzz <br />- Volt Switch <br />- Thunderbolt</code></div></details></div>
[20:42:12] venomben: we wont but i like it so much
[20:42:13] Yoshizilla315: you ran speed out of HP with agility
[20:42:13] @PursuitOfHappiny: uh enough spdef to live moonblasts from whimsi i think
[20:42:15] %abejas: this counters medi
[20:42:19] %i LIke CutE things: you know what i want
[20:42:22] %i LIke CutE things: golisopod
[20:42:23] @kay: allstar
[20:42:27] Yoshizilla315: Golisopod LOL
[20:42:30] @kay: I was legit just thinking about def vika
[20:42:30] @kay: lol
[20:42:34] venomben: I love golisopod
[20:42:34] Yoshizilla315: what counters cb golisopod
[20:42:39] %abejas: you need to keep rocks out
[20:42:44] #quziel: on a completely unrelated note
[20:42:44] Yoshizilla315: yeah
[20:42:47] #quziel: run LO on your virizions
[20:42:49] #quziel: just trust me
[20:42:49] %abejas: but its a solid check to medi
[20:42:53] #quziel: its 50x better than rock-z
[20:42:55] ntertnthht3: "emergency exit is a good ability, you dont know how to use it" ~some low elo dude
[20:42:55] Yoshizilla315: idk man
[20:42:57] Yoshizilla315: if you run LO
[20:42:58] #Hootie: z move viriz is still fine
[20:42:59] #quziel: and allows you to pretend to do stuff in midgame
[20:43:02] Yoshizilla315: you can get revenge killed by dom
[20:43:03] %abejas: the one time I actually agree with quziel
[20:43:04] Yoshizilla315: doom*
[20:43:06] Yoshizilla315: fairly easily
[20:43:09] %abejas: LO viri is so good
[20:43:11] #Hootie: viriz is mon that hates being worn down on certains
[20:43:14] #quziel: I get that
[20:43:15] Yoshizilla315: But LO sounds cool
[20:43:18] #quziel: but Lo just gives you so much power
[20:43:21] #Hootie: lo is good
[20:43:28] #quziel: and means you aren't forced to SD all the time to do anything
[20:43:29] #Hootie: but for balance id rather run z
[20:43:33] @kay: lo is the only set I really run for it now
[20:43:33] #quziel: fair
[20:43:37] #Hootie: where viriz can check what it needs to
[20:43:42] @PursuitOfHappiny: do people prefer stone edge or zen headbutt?
[20:43:45] #quziel: edge
[20:43:45] #Hootie: yes
[20:43:46] venomben: SE
[20:43:46] %abejas: edge
[20:43:50] Yoshizilla315: hm
[20:43:51] snaga: zen
[20:43:53] #Hootie: it does a lot to venu still
[20:43:54] Yoshizilla315: zen headbutt hits venu\
[20:43:58] Yoshizilla315: oh does it now?\
[20:43:59] snaga: jk
[20:44:04] Yoshizilla315: in that case
[20:44:07] #eternally: edge still deals with offensive and spdef venu
[20:44:08] Yoshizilla315: stone edge
[20:44:08] @PursuitOfHappiny: zen hits croak
[20:44:14] #Hootie: +2 z edge had a good shot at koing offensive venu im pretty sure
[20:44:15] @PursuitOfHappiny: which is pretty nice
[20:44:15] Yoshizilla315: that takes 5 trillion
[20:44:19] Yoshizilla315: from +2 cc
[20:44:19] venomben: stares at barb in BL3
[20:44:20] @PursuitOfHappiny: considering croak is amazing
[20:44:25] #Hootie: croak is a notable target for sure tho
[20:44:28] #quziel: +2 252 Atk Life Orb Virizion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 281-331 (91.5 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
[20:44:29] #quziel: at the same time
[20:44:33] Yoshizilla315: yeah
[20:44:42] @Blast: dommage
[20:44:42] %i LIke CutE things: free brip
[20:44:49] #eternally: use carracosta
[20:44:53] #quziel: croak is fun though
[20:44:53] Yoshizilla315: free :geargrinder: emote imo
[20:44:57] #quziel: does a ton of stuff
[20:45:00] Yoshizilla315: I've used Tesada
[20:45:03] EREN』: Hello
[20:45:04] Yoshizilla315: uh his team
[20:45:07] Yoshizilla315: it had ScarF Croak
[20:45:08] EREN』: what are we talking about rn
[20:45:09] %abejas: EREN n_n
[20:45:09] @kay: I only actualyl started using croak this meta
[20:45:10] Yoshizilla315: I've liked using it a ot
[20:45:11] @kay: and holy shit
[20:45:11] %i LIke CutE things: metagame
[20:45:15] EREN』: yes I know ilct
[20:45:16] @kay: its so much better then I thought it would be
[20:45:17] %abejas: meta
[20:45:19] EREN』: i meant what in specific
[20:45:21] #quziel: it seems fighting types
[20:45:24] #quziel: currently croak
[20:45:24] %abejas: viri
[20:45:25] Yoshizilla315: there's nothing specific going on
[20:45:27] @PursuitOfHappiny: croak is my fav mon atm
[20:45:28] Yoshizilla315: but yeah croak
[20:45:32] #Hootie: i used to hate on croak a lot in the past
[20:45:33] Yoshizilla315: Croak is so good
[20:45:38] #Hootie: but it's really good now
[20:45:40] Yoshizilla315: what rank is it rn?
[20:45:42] EREN』: Croak is really good
[20:45:43] #Hootie: A
[20:45:44] %abejas: A
[20:45:45] venomben: im honestly surprised there aren't many flying types
[20:45:46] Yoshizilla315: ah
[20:45:46] EREN』: LO probably the best set
[20:45:54] #Hootie: nah z is better
[20:45:56] Yoshizilla315: LO Croak?
[20:45:57] snaga: the best croak is
[20:45:59] Yoshizilla315: nah Z is better imo
[20:46:00] @PursuitOfHappiny: toad leaving made it 10x better
[20:46:01] #quziel: LO special is cute though
[20:46:06] snaga: subsitute/toxic/focuspunch/suckerpunch
[20:46:06] %i LIke CutE things: come back toad
[20:46:07] EREN』: i think LO is better because of the sucker output
[20:46:09] venomben: like xatu, sigil, and braviary
[20:46:09] #quziel: though struggles for coverage at times
[20:46:13] EREN』: it'll get some better kos
[20:46:16] %abejas: when did the scarf poison type hype start?
[20:46:18] Yoshizilla315: Sucker KOs Delphox after rocks
[20:46:19] EREN』: esp if u throw it on an offensive teams
[20:46:20] ntertnthht3: is resorttalk komala considered usable
[20:46:23] @kay: with tangy abejas
[20:46:23] %abejas: thats what I would like to know
[20:46:24] @kay: lol
[20:46:24] Yoshizilla315: at +2
[20:46:25] %i LIke CutE things: it's usable
[20:46:26] EREN』: where most things appreciate z moves more
[20:46:34] Yoshizilla315: abejas I have no idea
[20:46:39] Yoshizilla315: but it's wavy
[20:46:48] @PursuitOfHappiny: scarf garb is a thing since oras
[20:46:53] #eternally: ya
[20:46:54] EREN』: Fighting types are all quite interesting rn
[20:46:57] Yoshizilla315: I tried scarf qwilfish
[20:46:58] %abejas: I swear I faced at least 6 scarf croaks and 3 garbs
[20:47:01] #Hootie: scarf garb is the soulgazer special
[20:47:02] Yoshizilla315: worst thing I've ever done
[20:47:07] #eternally: soapy invented scarf qwil
[20:47:12] EREN』: soapy
[20:47:13] @kay: dude
[20:47:13] EREN』: THE kid
[20:47:14] EREN』: ?
[20:47:14] Yoshizilla315: yeah he did
[20:47:18] @kay: I kept getting bopped by this guy on ladder
[20:47:20] Yoshizilla315: I posted it in the discord
[20:47:22] @kay: with scarf explosion garb
[20:47:23] @kay: lol
[20:47:23] Yoshizilla315: and he let me know lol
[20:47:23] @Blast: soapvictory
[20:47:23] Why's bert testing: https://pokepast.es/e7dfbc1ced4e9a55 flames
[20:47:26] #eternally: lol
[20:47:34] %abejas: !ms explosion, nu
[20:47:34] |html|<div class="infobox">'explosion' could not be found in any of the search categories.</div>
[20:47:38] %abejas: hmm
[20:47:41] @Blast: ds
[20:47:43] ntertnthht3: give the ghost a scarf
[20:47:44] Yoshizilla315: so when is Houndoom rising
[20:47:44] #quziel: !code
[20:47:44] |html|<div class="infobox"><details><summary>See code...</summary><div class="chat"><code style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: table">Aggron @ Hard Stone <br />Ability: Rock Head <br />EVs: 172 HP &#x2f; 252 Atk &#x2f; 84 Spe <br />Adamant Nature <br />- Head Smash <br />- Focus Punch <br />- Substitute <br />- Magnet Rise</code></div></details></div>
[20:47:46] #quziel: cutest set
[20:47:47] Yoshizilla315: isnt it still B+?
[20:47:48] %abejas: !ds explosion, nu
[20:47:48] |html|<div class="infobox"><a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/cryogonal" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Cryogonal" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Cryogonal</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/garbodor" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Garbodor" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Garbodor</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/minior" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Minior" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Minior</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/qwilfish" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Qwilfish" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Qwilfish</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/silvallysteel" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Silvally-Steel" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Silvally-Steel</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/smeargle" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Smeargle" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Smeargle</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/steelix" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Steelix" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Steelix</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/torkoal" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Torkoal" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Torkoal</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/vanilluxe" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Vanilluxe" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Vanilluxe</a></div>
[20:47:53] %i LIke CutE things: hot
[20:47:55] Yoshizilla315: explosion vani
[20:47:58] #quziel: ngl
[20:47:58] @PursuitOfHappiny: ^
[20:48:01] %i LIke CutE things: does magnet rise protect you from probopass
[20:48:01] Yoshizilla315: they used that in PU
[20:48:04] #quziel: explosion vanil is sorta cute
[20:48:08] #quziel: for teams that want fires worn down
[20:48:10] @PursuitOfHappiny: scarb boom icecream
[20:48:11] #quziel: or cryo worn down
[20:48:16] #quziel: and can give you mad momentum
[20:48:20] @PursuitOfHappiny: is good
[20:48:22] #quziel: which is something the mon otherwise lacks
[20:48:30] #Hootie: i mean nice thing is
[20:48:32] %abejas: !ds explosion, pu, speed>70
[20:48:32] |html|<div class="infobox"><a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/claydol" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Claydol" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Claydol</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/drifblim" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Drifblim" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Drifblim</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/electrode" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Electrode" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Electrode</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/glalie" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Glalie" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Glalie</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/gourgeist" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Gourgeist" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Gourgeist</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/haunter" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Haunter" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Haunter</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/shiftry" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Shiftry" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Shiftry</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/silvally" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Silvally" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Silvally</a>, <a href="//dex.pokemonshowdown.com/pokemon/skuntank" target="_blank" class="subtle" style="white-space:nowrap"><psicon pokemon="Skuntank" style="vertical-align:-7px;margin:-2px" />Skuntank</a></div>
[20:48:33] %i LIke CutE things: boom ice cream also helps vs like hariyama if that still exists
[20:48:39] #Hootie: ice cream doesn't have much else it can run anyways
[20:48:46] @PursuitOfHappiny: hp ground
[20:48:48] Yoshizilla315: well
[20:48:49] Yoshizilla315: hp ground
[20:48:52] @PursuitOfHappiny: i guess
[20:48:54] ntertnthht3: skuntank has the funkiest movepool i swear
[20:48:56] Yoshizilla315: is good
[20:48:58] #Hootie: hp ground, freeze dry, blizz
[20:49:04] %i LIke CutE things: flash cannon
[20:49:04] @PursuitOfHappiny: flash cannon
[20:49:04] Yoshizilla315: Togedemaru is seeing more usage
[20:49:06] #Hootie: last slot is filler
[20:49:06] Yoshizilla315: Flash Cannoin
[20:49:17] #quziel: boom cream + agility vika actually sounds pretty cute
[20:49:17] Yoshizilla315: tbh hp ground is more of a filler imo
[20:49:19] @PursuitOfHappiny: isnt hp ground the filler
[20:49:26] #Hootie: flash cannon was better when pilo was more prominent
[20:49:26] Yoshizilla315: if you can beat stuff like Toge
[20:49:33] Pilo: ?
[20:49:33] #Hootie: it's a relic now.
[20:49:34] Yoshizilla315: Pilo is prominent rn
[20:49:35] Pilo: oh
[20:49:40] %abejas: I´ve seen more hp fighting for some reason
[20:49:40] #Hootie: not really
[20:49:41] @kay: pilo still is seeing enough play to justify it
[20:49:42] @PursuitOfHappiny: pilo is back tho
[20:49:44] @kay: not being filler
[20:49:47] Yoshizilla315: right
[20:49:47] @kay: also hi pilo
[20:49:51] Pilo: hi kay
[20:49:54] Pilo: whats good man?
[20:49:59] #eternally: tbh pilo isnt even a top 3 rocker rn
[20:49:59] @PursuitOfHappiny: lol
[20:50:01] #eternally: in usage or in quality
[20:50:02] @kay: just tagging me favorite user
[20:50:03] @kay: :]
[20:50:03] #Hootie: yeah
[20:50:06] Yoshizilla315: pilo isnt a top 3 rocker for sure
[20:50:09] Pilo: :)
[20:50:10] Yoshizilla315: but it's seeing more usage
[20:50:12] #Hootie: lix is the the best rocker
[20:50:13] #Hootie: atm
[20:50:15] EREN』: Pilo is top 3
[20:50:17] EREN』: in my heart
[20:50:17] #eternally: lix, don, drudd
[20:50:20] EREN』: the user not the mon
[20:50:20] EREN』: :)
[20:50:21] #Hootie: agree
[20:50:22] @kay: lix > drudd > everything else.
[20:50:26] @Blast: i still like pilo a lot
[20:50:28] Yoshizilla315: mudsdale > everything else
[20:50:30] #Hootie: no toad really boosted lix and rhydon's viability
[20:50:32] Yoshizilla315: me too Blast
[20:50:33] #eternally: yeah
[20:50:35] @PursuitOfHappiny: i like pilo over don tbh
[20:50:37] @Blast: ice shard's so useful
[20:50:45] #Hootie: rhydon still has a killer stab combination
[20:50:46] @PursuitOfHappiny: actually
[20:50:47] %abejas: drudd>lix>don>pilo>MILTANK
[20:50:49] Why's bert testing: rhydon is pretty handy rn
[20:50:52] #quziel: I've had a bit of fun with venu/piloswine/vaporeon cores
[20:50:52] EREN』: Miltank is neat
[20:50:55] #quziel: which do some cute stuff
[20:50:59] EREN』: remember when people were gassing pallosand
[20:51:03] #quziel: as you can actually justify running vap with spdef venu
[20:51:05] EREN』: specifically: eternally
[20:51:06] Yoshizilla315: pallosand is good now
[20:51:07] @PursuitOfHappiny: palo is cheeks
[20:51:11] %i LIke CutE things: people still gassing palossand
[20:51:13] Yoshizilla315: actually its not good
[20:51:13] #eternally: i like piloswine, but at the same time I dislike how it has a lot less survivability compared to other options
[20:51:17] Yoshizilla315: but it's gotten better honestly
[20:51:17] %abejas: eternally is like a wild card
[20:51:26] #quziel: I still maintain its really cute with vaporeon
[20:51:28] @kay: pilo is weird.
[20:51:30] @Blast: what if we used palossand to beat emboar medicham and toxicroak
[20:51:31] #quziel: as that really allows you to keep it healthy
[20:51:32] %abejas: he can make good stuff sometimes but usually makes bad stuff
[20:51:34] @Blast: - evan 2018
[20:51:36] %abejas: like sawsbuck
[20:51:39] @kay: you put it on a team style where you want lognevity in a rocker
[20:51:39] #Hootie: i honestly think pilo isn't that good rn lol
[20:51:40] #eternally: ..
[20:51:41] @kay: but at the same time
[20:51:43] @kay: it has non
[20:51:45] #eternally: f abejas
[20:51:45] @kay: but its still good.
[20:51:46] Why's bert testing: scarf cream or specs
[20:51:49] Yoshizilla315: I like specs
[20:51:50] %abejas: <3
[20:51:52] EREN』: pilo doesn't offer the same role compressions you seek
[20:51:54] EREN』: out of a rocker
[20:51:56] EREN』: typically
[20:51:56] %i LIke CutE things: usually specs but scarf is fine too
[20:51:57] #Hootie: ya
[20:52:03] EREN』: it neither resists fire nor flying
[20:52:09] EREN』: and really just is hard to justify
[20:52:11] EREN』: usually
[20:52:12] #Hootie: ice resist isn't as hard to fit
[20:52:12] %abejas: nor normal
[20:52:15] #Hootie: as it used to be
[20:52:17] EREN』: y
[20:52:19] EREN』: precisely
[20:52:23] #Hootie: and that was pilo's main draw
[20:52:24] %abejas: people use pilo as a normal resist
[20:52:43] EREN』: If you're using pilo as a catch all switch and have a fire check
[20:52:44] #eternally: pilo teams also tend to not have flying resists, so you can easily be overwhelmed by a midgame braviary
[20:52:45] EREN』: might as well
[20:52:46] EREN』: use lix
[20:53:00] EREN』: speaking of braviary
[20:53:01] Yoshizilla315: how do you guys feel about
[20:53:04] Yoshizilla315: Togedemaru
[20:53:07] #Hootie: i just think the typing is awkward
[20:53:09] EREN』: ive been liking bu superpower braved bird roost
[20:53:10] #Hootie: and toge is ok
[20:53:11] @PursuitOfHappiny: fallen off
[20:53:12] EREN』: @ fly z
[20:53:18] %abejas: a core I´ve been really liking is vaporeon+steelvally
[20:53:22] Pokemonisfun: can i ask a quick question
[20:53:23] #Hootie: it's better than it was at the end of sm
[20:53:23] %abejas: it checks so much
[20:53:23] Yoshizilla315: poh why do you say that?
[20:53:32] Yoshizilla315: I think Togedemaru has gotten a bit better
[20:53:37] EREN』: Toge's rod isn't needed as much though
[20:53:41] Pokemonisfun: whats the most common haunter set
[20:53:43] #Hootie: it got one less mon to wall
[20:53:46] Yoshizilla315: sub LO I think
[20:53:47] EREN』: scarf and subsplit
[20:53:48] #Hootie: with the departure of rotom
[20:53:48] Yoshizilla315: people use Scarf too
[20:53:49] EREN』: pokemonisfun
[20:53:49] @PursuitOfHappiny: yeah it got better but people realised how good silvally steel is
[20:53:50] Why's bert testing: get out of here piff
[20:53:52] %abejas: scarf/subsplit
[20:53:54] Why's bert testing: go play haha
[20:53:56] EREN』: Scarf is the best role compressor
[20:53:57] EREN』: pif
[20:54:03] EREN』: subsplit is p potent w good support
[20:54:03] #Hootie: but like some teams just have a hard time breaking toge
[20:54:11] @kay: toge auto wins some match ups
[20:54:14] @kay: its kinda funny
[20:54:16] @PursuitOfHappiny: ict lol
[20:54:19] #Hootie: see me vs ict
[20:54:20] Yoshizilla315: I used Scarf Toge for some time
[20:54:21] #Hootie: well
[20:54:24] Yoshizilla315: before the drops
[20:54:26] Pokemonisfun: thanks
[20:54:29] Yoshizilla315: it was actually really annoying
[20:54:29] #Hootie: i didn't play it the best
[20:54:33] EREN』: Hoodie uve had some p bad mus
[20:54:33] #Hootie: but it did wall his team
[20:54:34] %i LIke CutE things: what's life orb non-sun venusaur's last move
[20:54:36] %abejas: I dont really like using toge
[20:54:37] EREN』: this spl
[20:54:39] #Hootie: once phox was trapped
[20:54:40] %i LIke CutE things: like leaf storm giga drain sludge bomb
[20:54:50] %abejas: It makes me want to use another ice resist
[20:54:50] #Hootie: yeah a little bit
[20:54:51] @PursuitOfHappiny: super fang uturn toge is ok
[20:54:55] @Blast: synthesis
[20:55:03] #eternally: superfang zingzap is my favorite
[20:55:03] %i LIke CutE things: got it
[20:55:06] EREN』: Synth
[20:55:07] #Hootie: the only really bad mu was vs shake
[20:55:08] #eternally: but i liked it better in seis meta
[20:55:10] Yoshizilla315: eternally thats what I've been using
[20:55:18] #quziel: sleep powder is also really cool atm on venu
[20:55:25] EREN』: leaf storm sludge knock/sleep synth is rlly good on lo
[20:55:28] #Hootie: vs ted it was my fault for swapping to cb guzz last moment
[20:55:28] #quziel: as it means specific switchins are dead weight
[20:55:29] EREN』: omg quziel..
[20:55:32] @PursuitOfHappiny: knock venu to screw null
[20:55:33] #Hootie: cb guzz is bad btw
[20:55:38] #eternally: ya he's no pokemon
[20:55:42] EREN』: I think knock and sleep
[20:55:42] @kay: special with knock > cb
[20:55:43] @Blast: mhm
[20:55:44] @kay: on guzz
[20:55:46] EREN』: are the best fillers
[20:55:49] EREN』: for last move
[20:55:49] #Hootie: yeah agree kay
[20:55:51] EREN』: on LO venu
[20:55:55] TiamatArcana: excuse me, how is scrafty doing?
[20:55:59] EREN』: Eq is not rlly necessary
[20:55:59] @Blast: cb guzz is an uncheck to slowbro
[20:56:02] %abejas: lowkey busted
[20:56:02] EREN』: scrafty is in a bad position
[20:56:03] #Hootie: fire blast is all the coverage it needs really
[20:56:07] @kay: I thin kscrafty is awful TiamatArcana
[20:56:11] @kay: but other people like it lol
[20:56:12] EREN』: the other fighting types
[20:56:13] #Hootie: sludge bomb sure as hell isn't breaking audino
[20:56:15] EREN』: are much better
[20:56:15] Yoshizilla315: people seem split on scrafty
[20:56:18] @PursuitOfHappiny: EREN eq nails silvally steel which is nice
[20:56:19] Yoshizilla315: I think it's decent
[20:56:20] #eternally: polarising mon
[20:56:26] EREN』: So does sleep
[20:56:26] %abejas: scrafty can be one of those mons that can autowin
[20:56:27] Yoshizilla315: it can break through teams which are unprepared for it
[20:56:31] %abejas: or be a liabilty
[20:56:32] EREN』: sleep is good enough
[20:56:35] EREN』: vs steelvally
[20:56:36] EREN』: @poh
[20:56:40] @PursuitOfHappiny: i guess :p
[20:56:41] #quziel: ye
[20:56:46] #eternally: the most annoying scrafty set is that BU SpD rest one
[20:56:46] #quziel: sleep is often the easiest last move
[20:56:49] #eternally: but the best is chople dd
[20:56:55] #Hootie: ngl im not a big silvally fan
[20:56:57] #quziel: and is prolly the easiest way ot prevent yourself from being klinklang fodder
[20:56:59] #Hootie: it gets worn down too fast
[20:57:01] EREN』: Agree hootman
[20:57:07] #Hootie: steel comes in handy though
[20:57:08] EREN』: only find myself using water
[20:57:12] @PursuitOfHappiny: i used to hat esilvally
[20:57:12] #eternally: yeah you really want wish support with it
[20:57:12] EREN』: eh
[20:57:14] #Hootie: but it struggles a lot vs lix
[20:57:15] %abejas: !code
[20:57:15] |html|<div class="infobox"><details><summary>See code...</summary><div class="chat"><code style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: table">Scrafty @ Leftovers <br />Ability: Shed Skin <br />EVs: 252 HP &#x2f; 8 Atk &#x2f; 212 SpD &#x2f; 36 Spe <br />Careful Nature <br />- Rest <br />- Bulk Up <br />- Knock Off <br />- Drain Punch <br /><br />Steelix @ Leftovers <br />Ability: Sturdy <br />EVs: 248 HP &#x2f; 220 Atk &#x2f; 40 Spe <br />Adamant Nature <br />- Heavy Slam <br />- Earthquake <br />- Toxic <br />- Stealth Rock <br /><br />Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet <br />Ability: Aftermath <br />EVs: 248 HP &#x2f; 124 Def &#x2f; 136 Spe <br />Impish Nature <br />- Spikes <br />- Gunk Shot <br />- Toxic Spikes <br />- Seed Bomb <br /><br />Vaporeon @ Leftovers <br />Ability: Water Absorb <br />EVs: 248 HP &#x2f; 104 Def &#x2f; 156 SpD <br />Bold Nature <br />IVs: 0 Atk <br />- Heal Bell <br />- Wish <br />- Scald <br />- Protect <br /><br />Delphox @ Leftovers <br />Ability: Magician <br />EVs: 168 HP &#x2f; 88 SpA &#x2f; 252 Spe <br />Timid Nature <br />IVs: 0 Atk <br />- Substitute <br />- Calm Mind <br />- Flamethrower <br />- Psychic <br /><br />Mismagius @ Fairium Z <br />Ability: Levitate <br />EVs: 64 HP &#x2f; 252 SpA &#x2f; 4 SpD &#x2f; 188 Spe <br />Timid Nature <br />IVs: 0 Atk <br />- Nasty Plot <br />- Shadow Ball <br />- Dazzling Gleam <br />- Taunt <br /><br /></code></div></details></div>
[20:57:20] %abejas: eternally rate
[20:57:20] EREN』: watervally is my favorite one
[20:57:25] #eternally: lol
[20:57:26] @PursuitOfHappiny: but im liking steelvally a lot
[20:57:47] Yoshizilla315: I like using Disjunction's Steelvally set
[20:57:48] EREN』: Steel has neat resistances but it's subpar matchups vs rockers
[20:57:51] EREN』: are sth I don't appreciate
[20:57:58] Yoshizilla315: it's like Flamethrower/Defog/Parting Shot/Flash Cannon
[20:58:24] #Hootie: it needs flame for sure
[20:58:26] EREN』: That's the best set
[20:58:30] #Hootie: being lix bait is really bad
[20:58:31] EREN』: yoshi
[20:58:35] Yoshizilla315: oh
[20:58:39] #quziel: toxic over flash can also be nice
[20:58:39] Yoshizilla315: I dont use vally often
[20:58:50] EREN』: Toxic over flash
[20:58:51] @PursuitOfHappiny: Yoshizilla315 thats the standard set
[20:58:54] EREN』: means u should just use
[20:58:56] EREN』: watercally
[20:58:56] Yoshizilla315: yeah I didnt know that
[20:58:57] Yoshizilla315: oo
[20:58:58] EREN』: tho.
[20:59:04] #quziel: eh
[20:59:06] Yoshizilla315: watervally is an unpokemon
[20:59:09] #quziel: the additional resistances are nice
[20:59:10] Yoshizilla315: that's just bias tho
[20:59:14] #quziel: and that thar is false
[20:59:17] EREN』: Watervally is, imo,
[20:59:18] EREN』: better
[20:59:20] EREN』: than steel.
[20:59:25] Yoshizilla315: that's debatable
[20:59:26] @PursuitOfHappiny: oof
[20:59:29] Yoshizilla315: I think steel is the best one
[20:59:31] @PursuitOfHappiny: bold claim EREN
[20:59:32] %i LIke CutE things: i respect your opinion
[20:59:38] @PursuitOfHappiny: :p
[20:59:41] %abejas: I like my silvally to beat whimsi
[20:59:42] EREN』: Definitely debatable but, as I said,
[20:59:47] EREN』: subpar matchups vs rockers
[20:59:52] #Hootie: alt still beats out both in terms of consistent defogs
[20:59:54] EREN』: leave me not rlly using syeel
[20:59:58] #quziel: yeah
[20:59:58] EREN』: altaria is the best defogger
[20:59:59] EREN』: rn
[20:59:59] %i LIke CutE things: i tried out poisonvally forever ago and it was cool
[21:00:13] Yoshizilla315: I've seen Ghostvally too
[21:00:15] @PursuitOfHappiny: have people tried defog cryo?
[21:00:16] #quziel: steelvally is when you need a ice/sneasel/grass resist taht defogs
[21:00:16] EREN』: defensive defogger, in specific
[21:00:20] #Hootie: reliable recovery is way more worth it at the cost of being passive
[21:00:21] #Hootie: and anh
[21:00:23] #Hootie: nah
[21:00:26] #quziel: I used defog cryo on a zard team
[21:00:27] #Hootie: spin is better
[21:00:29] #quziel: worked ok
[21:00:32] Yoshizilla315: spin is better yeah
[21:00:35] #quziel: but wouldn't be able to justify it anywhere else
[21:00:40] #Hootie: i like cryo on teams with spikes
[21:00:44] EREN』: Defog cryo is justifiable if u have no spikes
[21:00:48] EREN』: but if u use cryo w no spikes
[21:00:50] Yoshizilla315: I agree with that
[21:00:54] EREN』: ur team comp will b wonky
[21:00:56] EREN』: most of the time
[21:01:02] Yoshizilla315: cryo stall
[21:01:02] Yoshizilla315: is cool
[21:01:04] #eternally: yeah cryo is pretty much one of the only forms of hazard control you can use on spikestack
[21:01:07] EREN』: Cryo's most definable niche is on
[21:01:08] %abejas: why is eren woke af
[21:01:11] #eternally: apart from xatu
[21:01:12] EREN』: spike stack
[21:01:14] @kay: hitmonlee
[21:01:15] @kay: !
[21:01:35] #eternally: free blastoise
[21:01:38] %abejas: what have you guys been using more? defensive cryo or offensive
[21:01:43] #Hootie: defensive
[21:01:43] #quziel: defensive
[21:01:45] @PursuitOfHappiny: defensive
[21:01:45] EREN』: Defensive
[21:01:47] #eternally: offensive icium-z
[21:01:48] #eternally: lol
[21:01:48] Yoshizilla315: defensive
[21:01:48] #quziel: on the note of cryo
[21:01:50] #Hootie: i never thought
[21:01:55] #Hootie: i would be saying this
[21:01:56] EREN』: Imagine cyanize
[21:01:58] EREN』: being right
[21:01:59] #Hootie: but defensive is way better
[21:01:59] EREN』: ever.
[21:02:03] @Blast: L
[21:02:05] EREN』: what a chilling thought
[21:02:08] EREN』: haha...
[21:02:10] @PursuitOfHappiny: bring him back.
[21:02:13] Yoshizilla315: dont disrespect the Cryogonal master
[21:02:18] %i LIke CutE things: free cyanize
[21:02:26] Yoshizilla315: cyanize plays RU now right?
[21:02:29] %abejas: y
[21:02:29] #quziel: on a side note
[21:02:33] #quziel: malamar is sorta cute atm
[21:02:36] #quziel: the spdef resttalk
[21:02:36] EREN』: kinda, ya
[21:02:38] #quziel: not z-celebrate
[21:02:38] @Blast: plot twist: he's here rn on an alt
[21:02:41] #eternally: malamar is always decent
[21:02:44] #eternally: tbh.
[21:02:45] @PursuitOfHappiny: malamar and viv
[21:02:49] @kay: ^
[21:02:50] @PursuitOfHappiny: eternal goats
[21:02:51] Yoshizilla315: remember when we ran buginium slowbro to check Malamar
[21:02:51] %abejas: accelgor is always a hidden gem
[21:02:52] @Blast: and then he pops up and goes 'i told you so'
[21:02:56] %abejas: people need to use it more
[21:02:59] #Hootie: eternally is the resident malamar lover
[21:03:01] #quziel: I tried out sub-petaya accelgor
[21:03:02] #quziel: was cute
[21:03:02] #eternally: lol
[21:03:09] #eternally: blast is the OG malamar lover
[21:03:12] EREN』: fax
[21:03:14] @Blast: ^
[21:03:16] @PursuitOfHappiny: buginium slowbro was for other slowbros
[21:03:26] EREN』: And guzz
[21:03:27] Yoshizilla315: I remember
[21:03:28] EREN』: to an extent.
[21:03:30] #Hootie: oh yeah
[21:03:30] Yoshizilla315: first joining NU
[21:03:37] Yoshizilla315: and people told me z-bug bro hit malamar
[21:03:38] #Hootie: what do you guys think of venu
[21:03:42] %i LIke CutE things: i love venusaur
[21:03:42] EREN』: Good
[21:03:43] Yoshizilla315: venu is cool
[21:03:44] #eternally: good, offensive is the best set
[21:03:46] #quziel: venu does everything
[21:03:48] @Blast: speaking of which if anyone knows how to make sprites
[21:03:49] #quziel: but offensive is best
[21:03:49] EREN』: agree eternally.
[21:03:56] #Hootie: venu is good but annoying
[21:03:59] #quziel: offensive sleep powder is by far my favorite
[21:04:01] #Hootie: offensive is best too
[21:04:07] @PursuitOfHappiny: lo 3 attacks best set imo
[21:04:08] EREN』: ^ what quziel said
[21:04:10] @Blast: a trainer red with malamar would be lit
[21:04:14] #eternally: I havent seen any physdef yet which is interesting considering it's the direct "replacement" of vileplume
[21:04:17] #quziel: oh
[21:04:24] %i LIke CutE things: to be fair heliolisk exists now
[21:04:25] #quziel: I should get a custom avatar
[21:04:26] #Hootie: plume is still better
[21:04:30] #Hootie: in that regard
[21:04:30] EREN』: eternally I think we'll see some
[21:04:33] #quziel: ye
[21:04:36] EREN』: in a later development of the meta
[21:04:39] EREN』: akin to oras ru
[21:04:40] #quziel: plume is honestly better due to effect spore being broke
[21:04:43] #quziel: rather than strength sap
[21:04:46] #eternally: tbh a lot of the stuff plume checked isnt really used much atm
[21:04:47] EREN』: No it isn't
[21:04:48] #eternally: like hitmonlee
[21:04:49] EREN』: I disagree
[21:04:51] #Hootie: like plume with iron defense null
[21:04:54] @kay: it doesn't help phy def that all the physical attackers that are S beat it rn
[21:04:57] @kay: like sneasel and boar
[21:04:57] Yoshizilla315: plume better than Venu?
[21:04:58] #Hootie: for aromatherapy support
[21:05:00] Yoshizilla315: that's the first time I've heard that
[21:05:06] #eternally: aromatherapy is pretty nice
[21:05:06] #quziel: oh
[21:05:12] #quziel: in the specific physdef role
[21:05:13] #Hootie: no im not saying it's better
[21:05:15] #Hootie: lol
[21:05:15] Yoshizilla315: ohh
[21:05:22] EREN』: I disagree quziel
[21:05:24] #quziel: eh
[21:05:26] #Hootie: it's very team specific
[21:05:30] #quziel: I just appreciate effect spore
[21:05:32] Yoshizilla315: yeah
[21:05:33] #Hootie: otherwise venu outclasses
[21:05:36] @kay: it still has a niche
[21:05:40] @kay: is what they're saying
[21:05:40] EREN』: Aromatherapy, as hootie said,
[21:05:44] EREN』: would be its best use
[21:05:51] @PursuitOfHappiny: i think aim ran this semistall team
[21:05:56] EREN』: Otherwise, venu usually outshadows it
[21:05:59] @PursuitOfHappiny: with aromtherapy ss plume
[21:06:10] #eternally: quziel get a custom of you sitting on top of a guzzlord
[21:06:14] #quziel: lol
[21:06:18] TiamatArcana: do you guys think dusknoir has any place in the meta?
[21:06:19] Yoshizilla315: was that the one with articuno poh?
[21:06:21] #quziel: figure that would be too big of a sprite
[21:06:25] @PursuitOfHappiny: nope
[21:06:25] #eternally: probably lol
[21:06:29] #quziel: ngl, dusknoir is pretty bad
[21:06:30] Yoshizilla315: oh
[21:06:30] Oshony: I wanted to make an RMT of my stall team but I'm too lazee
[21:06:34] Yoshizilla315: nvm that's the rozes team
[21:06:36] EREN』: No arcanan
[21:06:37] Yoshizilla315: with block pyukui
[21:06:38] EREN』: arcana*
[21:06:41] TiamatArcana: aww
[21:06:42] Oshony: quziel ill give u 50 pokedollars to make one for me
[21:06:52] #quziel: wait
[21:06:58] Yoshizilla315: speaking of money to I get my "I invented this" points?
[21:06:59] #quziel: are you insinuating I may have art skills?
[21:07:00] #Hootie: block pyuku is nasty
[21:07:06] #Hootie: definitely its best set
[21:07:08] Yoshizilla315: yeah I really like block pyuku
[21:07:10] #quziel: sorry, I'm a dirty engineer, no art skills here
[21:07:17] @PursuitOfHappiny: counter pyuku
[21:07:19] #Hootie: just make sure you use shed shell
[21:07:20] @PursuitOfHappiny: is way way better
[21:07:29] #Hootie: not on stall
[21:07:29] EREN』: Oshony
[21:07:31] EREN』: https://clean-rmt.herokuapp.com/
[21:07:39] @PursuitOfHappiny: most definitely on stall actually
[21:07:43] #Hootie: block does more for stall
[21:07:47] @PursuitOfHappiny: cause viriz is gonna beat you
[21:07:49] EREN』: Block soak tox recover
[21:07:50] EREN』: goat
[21:07:51] @PursuitOfHappiny: if not counter
[21:08:01] #Hootie: i mean stall should have another answer
[21:08:04] EREN』: yeah counter has its uses
[21:08:05] #Hootie: other than viriz.
[21:08:11] EREN』: viriz answers are difficult to bit
[21:08:11] #Hootie: err
[21:08:12] EREN』: vit
[21:08:13] EREN』: on stall
[21:08:17] EREN』: fit*
[21:08:21] #Hootie: sorta
[21:08:31] EREN』: Since u can lose to rock z or grass z
[21:08:32] Yoshizilla315: abejas ran Golbat
[21:08:35] EREN』: its coverage is nasty
[21:08:36] Yoshizilla315: but you had to double into lix
[21:08:37] #Hootie: i wouldn't rely on counter pyuk to beat it
[21:08:37] Yoshizilla315: on the z-move
[21:08:38] EREN』: for stall
[21:08:41] %abejas: I depended a lot
[21:08:44] %abejas: on pyuku
[21:08:47] %abejas: to be at full
[21:08:57] %abejas: Ig chople lix could work on stall
[21:09:05] %abejas: since you dont really need lefties
[21:09:09] EREN』: Does gyro kill -1 viriz?
[21:09:13] EREN』: from full?
[21:09:18] %abejas: with invesment y
[21:09:19] #Hootie: yes
[21:09:19] Yoshizilla315: yeah I'm fairly certain it does
[21:09:25] @PursuitOfHappiny: pyuku is often stalls best answer to viriz
[21:09:27] EREN』: I didn't think it did opps
[21:09:28] EREN』: oops
[21:09:33] @PursuitOfHappiny: and thats why counter is better on iy
[21:09:34] EREN』: chople lix could be interesting.
[21:09:36] Yoshizilla315: Steelix is pretty strong
[21:09:44] Yoshizilla315: +1 gyro ball kills Xatu from full
[21:09:58] #Hootie: toxic still lets it beat viriz though
[21:10:05] #Hootie: and stall teams pivot around easily
[21:10:06] Yoshizilla315: how much does leaf blade do
[21:10:07] Yoshizilla315: to pyuku
[21:10:16] #quziel: without LO, 53 max
[21:10:18] EREN』: 50~
[21:10:20] @PursuitOfHappiny: you gotta counter viriz
[21:10:20] Yoshizilla315: oh nic
[21:10:21] Yoshizilla315: nice*
[21:10:22] @PursuitOfHappiny: not toxic
[21:10:26] Yoshizilla315: you can toxic
[21:10:28] Yoshizilla315: and still suceed
[21:10:31] Yoshizilla315: if you get the right rolls
[21:10:34] %abejas: crits are anoying af
[21:10:35] Yoshizilla315: succeed*
[21:10:38] @PursuitOfHappiny: cause leaf blade is gonna do half
[21:10:41] Yoshizilla315: yeah especially with the high crit change
[21:10:43] #Hootie: toxic ruins any chance of it breaking stall still
[21:10:51] Yoshizilla315: chance*
[21:10:52] @PursuitOfHappiny: i've played a lot of stall
[21:11:00] EREN』: Block punishes misplays more
[21:11:03] #quziel: I've had some fun with hwish + viriz
[21:11:07] #quziel: which is always a fun archetype
[21:11:09] @PursuitOfHappiny: and i can safely say pyuku ___needs__ counter
[21:11:12] @PursuitOfHappiny: fuck
[21:11:13] EREN』: like if u say let me throw in my steelix to rock
[21:11:15] EREN』: and switch
[21:11:21] @kay: pyuk is also stalls main answer to croak
[21:11:22] EREN』: block punishes that
[21:11:27] @kay: losing counter means you lose to croak
[21:11:30] EREN』: Pyuk wins via
[21:11:31] EREN』: soak
[21:11:32] EREN』: + tox
[21:11:34] %abejas: __needs__ PursuitOfHappiny
[21:11:34] #quziel: naw
[21:11:35] @kay: n
[21:11:39] #quziel: dry skin blocks soak
[21:11:39] EREN』: Wait
[21:11:40] EREN』: oops
[21:11:40] @kay: dry skin
[21:11:41] EREN』: yeah
[21:11:42] EREN』: i forgot
[21:11:46] @PursuitOfHappiny: f off abejas :p
[21:11:47] %abejas: I run gastroacid pyuku
[21:11:47] EREN』: i realized as I typed it
[21:11:51] @kay: xd
[21:11:54] #quziel: if real
[21:11:56] %abejas: because f toxicroak
[21:11:58] #quziel: run spite block pyuk
[21:12:04] %abejas: I faced that
[21:12:09] %abejas: I was really sad
[21:12:09] @kay: I ran that
[21:12:11] EREN』: I been use spite pyu
[21:12:12] EREN』: he's cool
[21:12:14] @PursuitOfHappiny: you know what stalls answer was too croak
[21:12:18] @PursuitOfHappiny: eq toad
[21:12:20] @PursuitOfHappiny: alas
[21:12:24] %abejas: it was golbat weeb
[21:12:26] Yoshizilla315: ^
[21:12:28] %i LIke CutE things: just run eq gastro
[21:12:34] #eternally: dusclops traps it and wins
[21:12:34] Yoshizilla315: then you dont get rockws
[21:12:40] EREN』: ^ eternally woke
[21:12:50] #quziel: if real
[21:12:52] EREN』: remember that crappy team w dusclops eternally for
[21:12:53] EREN』: conquest
[21:12:53] #quziel: run curse garbodor stall
[21:12:56] #eternally: lol
[21:12:56] EREN』: he always did work
[21:12:59] #eternally: ya
[21:13:14] @PursuitOfHappiny: i think we can wrap up the seminar?
[21:13:22] #eternally: yeah
[21:13:31] #eternally: /announce Thanks everyone, great work today
[21:13:34] @kay: \o/!