Michael Jackson: Chase the Truth (2019)

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- In the last few
weeks a large amount

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of ugly, malicious information

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has been released into
the media about me.

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- This investigation
regarding Mister Jackson

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involves allegations
of child molestation,

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288-A of the
California penal code.

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- And I will not be a silent
collaborator of his crimes.

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- [Interviewer] Were
you ever accused

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of having sexually
molested Brett Barnes?

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- [Man] Don't answer that.

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- The strain of the
ongoing investigation

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is clearly taking its toll.

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- I'm behind my son.

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I don't believe
any of this stuff

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that has been written about him.

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- We support our
brother wholeheartedly.

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- The the felony complaint
involves nine counts.

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- [News Reporter]
So has the star simply buckled
under pressure?

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Is the strain too much of
seeing his accuser in court?

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- But in the end he
simply couldn't afford

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to live in a fantasy.

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- Breaking news for you tonight.

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The singer, Michael Jackson,

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is reported to have died
from a heart attack.

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- Daddy has been the best
father you could ever imagine.

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- Intense sexual abuse.

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Being heard is a powerful thing.

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We can't control
what people believe.

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- The information is
disgusting and false.

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- My name is Mike Smallcombe,

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I'm a journalist
based in the UK,

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and I've written a
book on the career

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and the life of Michael Jackson.

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Right after Michael
Jackson passed away,

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being a journalist, I read
a few of his biographies,

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and being interested
in his life and career,

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and all of them were focused
on his personal life.

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Here we've got probably the
biggest music superstar ever,

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and there's not really any
literature, any books out there

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that cover his career,

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so loving research,
being a journalist,

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and Michael Jackson being a
topic I was interested in,

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I thought there's a real
gap in the market there.

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Why can't I be the person who
writes something like that?

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- I'm Mark Lester,

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longtime friend of Michael's.

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So I've known Michael
since about 1978.

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When Michael was touring
with The Jacksons,

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he came over to the UK,

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and his manager phoned me up,

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and said Mike would
like to meet me,

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so we met.

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When I was waiting on the
other side of the door

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before I met him
for the first time,

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I didn't know what to expect.

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I thought he was going to
answer the door in a spacesuit,
or he would be levitating,

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or something like weird.

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But he wasn't, he was just
a completely normal guy.

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We're both the same
age, within a month.

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Michael was born in August,
I was born in July of '58.

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Michael showed me all these
magazines, pop magazines,

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"Tiger Beat," "Teen" magazine,

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which were big in the States.

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Whenever there was an article
with Michael was in it,

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usually I would be somewhere
in the magazine as well,

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so there was some kind
of association with that,

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that Michael picked up on.

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- My name's Lucy Lester,

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Michael is my godfather.

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I was 12 when I first met him.

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He flew us over to Las Vegas,

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and that's where we had
the naming ceremony.

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I never grew up listening
to his music, or anything,

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so to me it wasn't
Michael, like pop star,

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it was just Michael,
my dad's best friend.

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- My name's Matt Fiddes.

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I was Michael Jackson's
friend and bodyguard,

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for a number of years.

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People have to understand,

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I wasn't with him
24 hours a day.

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I think when people try and
say, were you close to him?

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Or, are you friends with him?

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This guy's the biggest
superstar on Earth.

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- When Michael was
onstage, he owned it.

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It was an incredible
transformation.

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["Wanna Be Startin'
Somethin'" by Michael Jackson]

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♪ I said you wanna be
startin' somethin' ♪

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♪ You got to be
startin' somethin' ♪

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♪ I said you wanna be
startin' somethin' ♪

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♪ You got to be
startin' somethin' ♪

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- Being onstage at
the age of five,

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it's all he ever knew.

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He was in the
Jackson 5 of course,

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and tremendously successful.

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That had led him to be

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one of the richest people
in entertainment ever,

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and be adored by millions
of fans around the world.

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So that's a great,
great privilege.

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Of course, we know
the flip side to that,

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with Michael Jackson,
and the burden of that.

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- I always liken him to being
a member of the royal family.

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He was born into it.

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He didn't know any different.

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So his perception of the world

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was completely different from
my reality, your reality.

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- He would say it was

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the greatest thing
that happened to him,

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but also he would like to
have been given a choice

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to be a superstar.

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Because he can't remember
not being Michael Jackson,

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the famous guy who
couldn't go anywhere.

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- There was one story in
particular that he would say,

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and he was recording
with Motown,

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and he was in the studio
with his brothers,

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and they could hear
children playing

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in a playground opposite.

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And he just wished that he
could just go over there,

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and be himself, be a child.

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But he couldn't, because
he was recording.

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And there was a
time when brothers

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were due to go to
South America to tour.

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And, in the car on the
way to the airport,

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he was just crying, because
he didn't want to go.

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He just wanted to stay,

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and be a child, play.

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He couldn't do that.

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And it had a massive
impact on him as an adult.

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Obviously, this
obsession with childhood,

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and building Neverland Ranch,

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wanting to be with children.

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Always trying to compensate
for that childhood

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that he never had.

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[children playing]

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- I think the way
to describe him,

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he was the biggest media

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manipulator there
is in the world,

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where he could control the
media, in certain ways.

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And at the same time, it
would backfire on occasions.

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And no one wanted to tell him.

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Is this the wrong thing to do?

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This may look the wrong way
from the public point of view.

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- He told me that he
was an illusionist,

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so if he wanted to create
a stir with the press,

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all he had to do was go out
of the hotel in a wheelchair,

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and then all of a sudden,

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the whole of the world's press,

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was, oh Michael Jackson's
in a wheelchair.

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And then he'd just
get out the wheelchair

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and get in the car.

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One of his favorites
was a surgical mask.

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He'd walk around with that,

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and they were like,
what's going on here?

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Why is he wearing
a surgical mask?

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It was for illusion.

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So he knew kind of a
little bit how to play,

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and then to toy with the press.

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But in other ways he
was incredibly naive.

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- We have stories about
Michael Jackson's soul.

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The fact the Michael was a
bit eccentric, helped that.

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So this mystery persona.

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I mean wow, he sleeps
in an oxygen chamber.

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He lives on a theme park.

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His skin color's changed.

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You name it.

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- [Mark] Sadly, it
kind of came around

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and it bit him on
the backside a bit.

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- Unfortunately, it was
partly Michael's fault,

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the mysterious
aspect of his life,

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and the weird stuff
coming out in the 80's.

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That was slightly his
fault with his PR campaign.

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But, that was quite
innocent stuff, really.

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The chamber, Bubbles the monkey,

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elephant man bones.

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It just got really,
really vicious,

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and negative, and totally
backfired unfortunately.

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The team around Michael,

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stopped having his best
interests at heart.

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In 1995,

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so from '97 until 2009,

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Michael had [muffled], I had
to get my head around this,

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10 different managers,
different accountants,

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different lawyers.

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It was a mess, complete
and utter mess.

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Partly Michael's fault,

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but they have a duty
representing him

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to have his best interests
at heart, and they didn't.

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They had their own
interests at heart.

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In '93, the civil lawsuit filed

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by the Jordan Chandler family,

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and the police report,
that was simultaneous.

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Once Michael Jackson had
settled that civil lawsuit,

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the reasons being,
not because he wanted

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to hush the Chandler family.

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The reasons actually
are quite incredible.

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- I can't speak for Michael,

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but I know one thing,

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Michael is not guilty,
I've talked to him before,

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I think he'll be fine,

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because he had nothing
to be ashamed of.

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- [Man] He's strong.

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- [Katharine] So
he's very strong.

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He'll just come out of it.

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- A judge ruled that
the civil lawsuit

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would be heard first.

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Because it was a minor,

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I think he thought that okay,

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we're gonna have to hear
this within 120 days,

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from this day.

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Michael's lawyers are like,

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hey, we want the
criminal trial first,

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because a civil lawsuit,

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that can really prejudice
a criminal trial.

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Why?

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Because we have a court hearing,

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between the Chandlers
and Michael's defense,

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in a civil lawsuit,

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the Chandlers and their
attorneys will know

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what Michael's defense
is going to be.

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That's massively prejudicial

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for any criminal trial.

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He wouldn't get a
fair criminal trial,

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because he had this civil
thing going on before.

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The important one
was the criminal one,

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because he could end up in jail.

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The civil one is
just about money.

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If you're hearing
the civil one first,

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and that could help
get you in jail,

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Michael's team was like,
the only option we've got,

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because the judge
ruled the civil one

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is going to be heard
first, to get rid of it.

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How do you get rid of it?

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You have to settle.

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That made Michael look guilty.

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What is he hiding?

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Why is he paying
off this family?

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- If this really went on,

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do you think the father
would accept money,

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that that would make it okay,

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that that would make
everything all right?

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It doesn't make any sense.

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I know that if that
were my son, I'm sorry,

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I don't care if he gave
me a billion dollars,

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I want to see you either
behind bars or dead,

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for the rest of your life,

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for doing that to my son,

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or my daughter.

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It's crazy, the guy was after
money is what he wanted.

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- I totally disagreed
with him doing that.

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He should not have
given him anything.

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But if there had been
any criminal activity,

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you can't pay off the cops

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or the legal system.

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They will go after you.

254
00:11:57,889 --> 00:12:00,167
You can't just say,
I'll pay the fine,

255
00:12:00,202 --> 00:12:01,721
because it didn't
work like that.

256
00:12:01,755 --> 00:12:05,828
If they pursued it through
the criminal courts,

257
00:12:05,863 --> 00:12:06,726
they didn't.

258
00:12:07,865 --> 00:12:11,592
- We have concluded that
because the young boy,

259
00:12:11,627 --> 00:12:13,767
who was a catalyst,

260
00:12:13,802 --> 00:12:15,251
for this investigation,

261
00:12:15,286 --> 00:12:17,253
has recently informed us,

262
00:12:17,288 --> 00:12:19,635
that he does not
wish to participate

263
00:12:19,669 --> 00:12:21,119
in any criminal proceeding,

264
00:12:21,154 --> 00:12:23,604
where he is named as a victim,

265
00:12:23,639 --> 00:12:28,230
that we must decline prosecution
involving Mister Jackson.

266
00:12:28,264 --> 00:12:29,818
- People don't know
the ins and outs

267
00:12:29,852 --> 00:12:33,373
of why he was forced to
make that settlement.

268
00:12:33,407 --> 00:12:35,478
He didn't want to, he
wanted to fight them both.

269
00:12:35,513 --> 00:12:37,653
So, that was '93, gone.

270
00:12:37,687 --> 00:12:39,655
- I think he got over
that quite quickly

271
00:12:39,689 --> 00:12:42,106
and just pushed that one aside.

272
00:12:42,140 --> 00:12:47,007
The second time,
with the Arvizo case,

273
00:12:47,042 --> 00:12:50,528
now that was around 2003.

274
00:12:50,562 --> 00:12:53,220
At that time I'd seen
quite a lot of Michael,

275
00:12:53,255 --> 00:12:55,222
and going backwards and
forwards to the States,

276
00:12:55,257 --> 00:12:56,637
spending a lot of
time at Neverland,

277
00:12:56,672 --> 00:12:59,157
and I was at Neverland,

278
00:12:59,192 --> 00:13:02,057
a great deal of the time when
the Arvizo family were there,

279
00:13:02,091 --> 00:13:05,267
and they were awful.

280
00:13:05,301 --> 00:13:08,132
- When we heard that
police were at Neverland,

281
00:13:08,166 --> 00:13:09,996
me and Mark spoke,
and we knew exactly,

282
00:13:10,030 --> 00:13:12,377
we're talking Gavin
Arvizo and his family.

283
00:13:12,412 --> 00:13:13,793
And out at the fours even,

284
00:13:13,827 --> 00:13:15,898
we'd been told, or the media

285
00:13:15,933 --> 00:13:17,141
had even announced that we knew,

286
00:13:17,175 --> 00:13:19,695
because they were
just called in havoc.

287
00:13:19,729 --> 00:13:22,594
- Basically, the boy was
recovering from cancer,

288
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:24,355
and Michael had said
to him in the hospital

289
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:27,220
that if he ever wanted
to come to Neverland,

290
00:13:27,254 --> 00:13:28,669
be my guest, come.

291
00:13:28,704 --> 00:13:30,775
And of course, the mother
had overheard this,

292
00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:33,019
and like yeah, we're going.

293
00:13:33,053 --> 00:13:34,710
Okay, so they turn
up at Neverland.

294
00:13:34,744 --> 00:13:38,438
It was just initially
the boy and his mom.

295
00:13:38,472 --> 00:13:40,405
They were made to
feel very welcome,

296
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,408
and put up in one
of the guest lodges.

297
00:13:43,443 --> 00:13:46,101
But they stayed for
like three months.

298
00:13:46,135 --> 00:13:48,966
And then all of a sudden
all these cousins appeared.

299
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,555
And at one time there was
like 15 of these like kids,

300
00:13:52,590 --> 00:13:55,869
and they were running
riot around Neverland.

301
00:13:55,904 --> 00:13:57,457
- Anyone could clearly see

302
00:13:57,491 --> 00:13:58,941
that they were taking
advantage of Michael,

303
00:13:58,976 --> 00:14:01,150
because he had such a big heart,

304
00:14:01,185 --> 00:14:04,395
and he wanted people
to come to Neverland.

305
00:14:04,429 --> 00:14:08,502
He wanted them to have
this amazing experience,

306
00:14:09,676 --> 00:14:11,436
and I think it's
quite sad that people

307
00:14:11,471 --> 00:14:13,956
must portray that as,
if you're being kind,

308
00:14:13,991 --> 00:14:15,716
you must be preying on people.

309
00:14:15,751 --> 00:14:17,857
There must be something
sinister behind it,

310
00:14:17,891 --> 00:14:22,413
when all he wanted to do
was just make people happy.

311
00:14:22,447 --> 00:14:23,897
- They were just like hooligans,

312
00:14:23,932 --> 00:14:25,761
and then it came to a time

313
00:14:25,795 --> 00:14:27,763
when they were asked to leave.

314
00:14:27,797 --> 00:14:32,595
The next day is when I think
the mother turned really nasty,

315
00:14:32,630 --> 00:14:35,875
and then made all these
allegations about Michael.

316
00:14:37,738 --> 00:14:39,292
- Years ago, I allowed a family

317
00:14:39,326 --> 00:14:41,846
to visit and spend
some time at Neverland.

318
00:14:41,881 --> 00:14:43,330
Neverland is my home.

319
00:14:43,365 --> 00:14:44,953
I allowed this
family into my home

320
00:14:44,987 --> 00:14:47,714
because they told me their
son was ill with cancer,

321
00:14:47,748 --> 00:14:49,164
and needed my help.

322
00:14:49,198 --> 00:14:51,235
Through the years I have
helped thousands of children

323
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:53,168
who were ill or in distress.

324
00:14:53,202 --> 00:14:55,998
These events have caused
a nightmare for my family,

325
00:14:56,033 --> 00:14:57,655
my children, and me.

326
00:14:57,689 --> 00:14:59,312
I never intend to place myself

327
00:14:59,346 --> 00:15:01,693
in so vulnerable a
position ever again.

328
00:15:01,728 --> 00:15:03,247
- The service of the warrant

329
00:15:03,281 --> 00:15:05,318
was part of an
ongoing investigation,

330
00:15:05,352 --> 00:15:08,769
alleging criminal misconduct
on the part of Michael Jackson.

331
00:15:10,116 --> 00:15:13,050
The basis for this investigation
regarding Mister Jackson,

332
00:15:13,084 --> 00:15:16,191
involves allegations
of child molestation,

333
00:15:16,225 --> 00:15:18,779
288-A of the
California penal code.

334
00:15:20,195 --> 00:15:22,335
Additionally, an arrest
warrant for Mister Jackson

335
00:15:22,369 --> 00:15:24,095
has been issued,

336
00:15:24,130 --> 00:15:26,373
on multiple counts
of child molestation.

337
00:15:28,582 --> 00:15:30,550
The bail amount on the
warrant has been set

338
00:15:30,584 --> 00:15:32,138
at three million dollars.

339
00:15:32,172 --> 00:15:34,588
At this point in
time, Mister Jackson's

340
00:15:34,623 --> 00:15:37,626
been given an opportunity
to surrender himself

341
00:15:37,660 --> 00:15:40,215
to the custody of the Santa
Barbara Sheriff's Department,

342
00:15:40,249 --> 00:15:42,217
within a specified
period of time.

343
00:15:43,563 --> 00:15:45,496
We are currently working
with Mister Jackson's

344
00:15:45,530 --> 00:15:47,947
legal representation
on this matter.

345
00:15:50,466 --> 00:15:52,813
- Sham of a trial,
again about money,

346
00:15:52,848 --> 00:15:55,885
because Arvizo's mom

347
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,750
first went to a civil lawyer,

348
00:15:58,785 --> 00:16:00,890
to try and get a
settlement of some sort.

349
00:16:00,925 --> 00:16:02,237
But the civil lawyer said,

350
00:16:02,271 --> 00:16:04,239
you need a conviction first.

351
00:16:04,273 --> 00:16:05,550
And that's the only reason why

352
00:16:05,585 --> 00:16:07,759
there was a criminal
trial first.

353
00:16:07,794 --> 00:16:10,038
- This case is about
one thing only,

354
00:16:11,349 --> 00:16:15,043
it's about the
dignity, the integrity,

355
00:16:15,077 --> 00:16:18,149
the decency, the honor,

356
00:16:18,184 --> 00:16:21,221
the charity, the innocence,

357
00:16:21,256 --> 00:16:23,085
and the complete vindication

358
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,226
of a wonderful human being
named Michael Jackson.

359
00:16:26,261 --> 00:16:29,919
- I would like to thank
the fans around the world.

360
00:16:31,059 --> 00:16:32,508
- [News Reporter] Could
you speak up please?

361
00:16:32,543 --> 00:16:34,579
- I would like to thank
the fans around the world,

362
00:16:34,614 --> 00:16:36,271
for your loving support,

363
00:16:36,305 --> 00:16:37,479
from every corner of the Earth,

364
00:16:37,513 --> 00:16:39,274
my family who has
been very supportive,

365
00:16:39,308 --> 00:16:41,931
my brother Randy,
who's been incredible.

366
00:16:41,966 --> 00:16:44,520
I want to thank the
community of Santa Maria.

367
00:16:44,555 --> 00:16:46,143
I want you to know that

368
00:16:46,177 --> 00:16:50,319
I love the community of
Santa Maria very much,

369
00:16:50,354 --> 00:16:51,631
it's my community.

370
00:16:51,665 --> 00:16:53,391
I love the people.

371
00:16:53,426 --> 00:16:54,599
I will always love the people.

372
00:16:54,634 --> 00:16:56,187
My children were born
in this community,

373
00:16:56,222 --> 00:16:57,947
my home is in this community.

374
00:16:57,982 --> 00:16:59,397
I will always love
this community

375
00:16:59,432 --> 00:17:00,778
from the bottom of my heart.

376
00:17:00,812 --> 00:17:02,193
That's why I moved here.

377
00:17:02,228 --> 00:17:03,677
Thank you very much.

378
00:17:03,712 --> 00:17:05,058
- The first thing wasn't
going to the police

379
00:17:05,093 --> 00:17:06,301
and saying, this
is what happened.

380
00:17:06,335 --> 00:17:10,339
The first step was
civil lawyer, money.

381
00:17:10,374 --> 00:17:13,618
- But the media wanted
that clash, bang.

382
00:17:14,792 --> 00:17:16,207
The guy who has
come from nothing,

383
00:17:16,242 --> 00:17:18,313
and then you see him
in the handcuffs.

384
00:17:18,347 --> 00:17:19,866
The money would have been in

385
00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:23,076
if he was found
guilty for the media.

386
00:17:24,284 --> 00:17:26,597
And the media outside
was just unbelievable.

387
00:17:26,631 --> 00:17:28,219
You have never seen
anything like it.

388
00:17:28,254 --> 00:17:32,016
- In America, the coverage
of the trial was horrid.

389
00:17:32,051 --> 00:17:33,949
Certain things would
be said in court,

390
00:17:33,983 --> 00:17:35,192
and then a completely
different thing

391
00:17:35,226 --> 00:17:36,814
would be reported in the media.

392
00:17:37,677 --> 00:17:40,921
There's no wonder that non-fans,

393
00:17:40,956 --> 00:17:42,337
members of the public were

394
00:17:42,371 --> 00:17:44,994
outraged that Michael
Jackson was found not guilty,

395
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:47,204
because they'd
read this coverage

396
00:17:47,238 --> 00:17:48,895
of Michael for five months,

397
00:17:48,929 --> 00:17:50,586
thinking that this was
the coverage in the court,

398
00:17:50,621 --> 00:17:51,829
when it wasn't.

399
00:17:51,863 --> 00:17:53,141
- The reason publicity
about these settlements

400
00:17:53,175 --> 00:17:55,315
is unfair and damaging
to him, his family,

401
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:58,042
and his dedication to
the world's children.

402
00:17:58,077 --> 00:18:00,009
The charges he faces are false,

403
00:18:00,044 --> 00:18:01,425
and will be battled
in a court of law

404
00:18:01,459 --> 00:18:03,461
within our justice system.

405
00:18:03,496 --> 00:18:05,843
He is innocent and
will be vindicated.

406
00:18:05,877 --> 00:18:08,121
- It was a disgrace.

407
00:18:08,156 --> 00:18:10,882
The media was spreading
around this narrative

408
00:18:10,917 --> 00:18:12,332
that Michael Jackson was guilty.

409
00:18:12,367 --> 00:18:14,093
How can a jury find
him not guilty,

410
00:18:14,127 --> 00:18:15,853
given what's happened
in that courtroom?

411
00:18:15,887 --> 00:18:17,406
But that wasn't the case.

412
00:18:17,441 --> 00:18:19,339
In fact, what was
heard in the courtroom

413
00:18:19,374 --> 00:18:22,411
was highly in Michael's favor.

414
00:18:22,446 --> 00:18:24,827
After the prosecution
case was put forward,

415
00:18:24,862 --> 00:18:26,001
the defense were thinking,

416
00:18:26,035 --> 00:18:27,589
are we even gonna bother here?

417
00:18:27,623 --> 00:18:29,142
Because the jury was ready

418
00:18:29,177 --> 00:18:31,972
to declare Michael
Jackson not guilty,

419
00:18:32,007 --> 00:18:33,974
after the prosecution case.

420
00:18:34,009 --> 00:18:35,666
But the defense decided

421
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:37,599
we're gonna hammer
the nail in the coffin

422
00:18:37,633 --> 00:18:39,048
of all of this.

423
00:18:39,083 --> 00:18:40,636
- [Thomas] The only people
that really mattered

424
00:18:40,671 --> 00:18:44,192
were 12 jurors and
one judge, 13 people.

425
00:18:44,226 --> 00:18:46,504
The rest were just extraneous

426
00:18:46,539 --> 00:18:48,368
as far as we were concerned.

427
00:18:48,403 --> 00:18:49,887
You had to drown out the media.

428
00:18:49,921 --> 00:18:51,578
They were just a distraction.

429
00:18:51,613 --> 00:18:52,855
They had their own agenda,

430
00:18:52,890 --> 00:18:55,513
which was ratings and
revenue, not justice,

431
00:18:55,548 --> 00:18:57,619
and you had to just
focus on the evidence,

432
00:18:57,653 --> 00:18:59,172
focus on the courtroom,

433
00:18:59,207 --> 00:19:01,070
and stay away from them.

434
00:19:01,105 --> 00:19:03,866
- [Susan] I think Michael is
one of those rare clients,

435
00:19:03,901 --> 00:19:07,042
where lawyers really
don't have to prep a lot.

436
00:19:07,076 --> 00:19:08,768
You don't even
have to coach him,

437
00:19:08,802 --> 00:19:11,460
in terms of how he should
behave in the courtroom.

438
00:19:11,495 --> 00:19:14,670
He was just so
well-behaved naturally,

439
00:19:14,705 --> 00:19:17,190
without even having to tell him

440
00:19:17,225 --> 00:19:19,710
to do anything other
than just be himself.

441
00:19:20,952 --> 00:19:23,645
- [David] How he
survived two years,

442
00:19:23,679 --> 00:19:25,819
where you're possibly
going to live

443
00:19:25,854 --> 00:19:28,132
the rest of your
life behind bars.

444
00:19:28,167 --> 00:19:30,548
I don't know, I would have
taken a gun and shot myself.

445
00:19:30,583 --> 00:19:35,381
But he was very strong
and he was someone who

446
00:19:35,415 --> 00:19:37,693
knew he had done nothing wrong.

447
00:19:37,728 --> 00:19:40,455
And he just believed in his
conviction, so I hand it to him.

448
00:19:40,489 --> 00:19:42,560
But it was tough.

449
00:19:42,595 --> 00:19:45,287
- The image and persona the
tabloid press saw of Michael,

450
00:19:45,322 --> 00:19:47,289
is not the man,

451
00:19:49,188 --> 00:19:51,155
not the true Michael Jackson.

452
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:54,365
And I think because
he was different,

453
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,230
he didn't conform to the norm,

454
00:19:57,265 --> 00:19:59,267
people didn't like that.

455
00:19:59,301 --> 00:20:01,786
There was this kind
of witch hunt about

456
00:20:01,821 --> 00:20:03,340
getting this man,

457
00:20:03,374 --> 00:20:05,894
because he just
didn't conform to how

458
00:20:05,928 --> 00:20:07,930
they wanted him to.

459
00:20:07,965 --> 00:20:11,313
- In the UK, there seem to
be these top-down agreements

460
00:20:11,348 --> 00:20:12,659
since the late '80's,

461
00:20:12,694 --> 00:20:15,386
that Michael Jackson
was to be smeared.

462
00:20:15,421 --> 00:20:17,216
Reporters would be told,

463
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:18,665
all we're gonna report on

464
00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:20,702
is negative Michael Jackson
stories, to sell papers.

465
00:20:20,736 --> 00:20:22,704
So the red tops, they
all agreed on that.

466
00:20:22,738 --> 00:20:24,050
You still see that today.

467
00:20:24,084 --> 00:20:26,259
So that's the dirtier
thing in the UK.

468
00:20:26,294 --> 00:20:28,399
Michael Jacko, all
the newspapers.

469
00:20:28,434 --> 00:20:31,678
And now again, two
accusers, 2013,

470
00:20:31,713 --> 00:20:33,818
going to a civil
lawyer, and saying,

471
00:20:33,853 --> 00:20:35,820
I want to sue Michael
Jackson's estate.

472
00:20:39,962 --> 00:20:41,585
- Yeah, you know, there's
been different times

473
00:20:41,619 --> 00:20:43,345
where it would just
be me and Michael.

474
00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:45,071
Then there'd be other
times where he has

475
00:20:45,105 --> 00:20:46,969
other friends over too.

476
00:20:47,004 --> 00:20:48,902
That's what Albert Brett said.

477
00:20:48,937 --> 00:20:51,146
It's just a slumber party,

478
00:20:51,180 --> 00:20:52,492
we'd just have a lot of fun.

479
00:20:52,527 --> 00:20:53,873
We just have a lot of fun.

480
00:20:55,702 --> 00:20:58,602
- Intense sexual abuse.

481
00:21:01,018 --> 00:21:02,847
That had to be clear.

482
00:21:02,882 --> 00:21:04,401
- I can just say for decades,

483
00:21:04,435 --> 00:21:06,644
Jackson put up this smokescreen,

484
00:21:06,679 --> 00:21:09,095
which was reinforced
by his family,

485
00:21:09,129 --> 00:21:11,131
and the media as well.

486
00:21:13,030 --> 00:21:14,480
- The allegations
are nothing new.

487
00:21:14,514 --> 00:21:16,309
Obviously I didn't know
there was gonna be a film,

488
00:21:16,344 --> 00:21:17,931
but I knew about
the allegations,

489
00:21:17,966 --> 00:21:20,002
because Wade Robson
and James Safechuck

490
00:21:20,037 --> 00:21:22,557
sued the Michael Jackson estate

491
00:21:22,591 --> 00:21:25,353
all the way back in 2013.

492
00:21:25,387 --> 00:21:28,217
This is something that's
very much under the radar,

493
00:21:28,252 --> 00:21:30,254
rumbled on and on.

494
00:21:31,393 --> 00:21:32,946
How that all started,

495
00:21:32,981 --> 00:21:35,708
Wade Robson tried to get a job

496
00:21:35,742 --> 00:21:37,779
with the Michael Jackson estate,

497
00:21:37,813 --> 00:21:41,610
being the lead choreographer
on the Cirque du Soleil show.

498
00:21:41,645 --> 00:21:46,305
- I'm starting on Cirque du
Soleil, Michael Jackson show.

499
00:21:46,339 --> 00:21:48,824
So it's the equivalent of

500
00:21:48,859 --> 00:21:50,516
The Beatles Love
Show that they have,

501
00:21:50,550 --> 00:21:52,345
or the Elvis show,
but for Michael.

502
00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:53,381
- Didn't get the job.

503
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,211
Was at a crossroads
in his career,

504
00:21:56,245 --> 00:21:59,248
lacking finances, not really
knowing where to turn.

505
00:21:59,283 --> 00:22:00,457
He was desperate
to get this job,

506
00:22:00,491 --> 00:22:02,976
been praising Michael
ever since Michael died,

507
00:22:03,011 --> 00:22:06,290
went to his memorial service
at the Staples Center,

508
00:22:06,325 --> 00:22:07,567
saying in interviews how Michael

509
00:22:07,602 --> 00:22:09,397
is this great friend of his.

510
00:22:09,431 --> 00:22:12,400
- Michael's such a hug part
of my career, and life.

511
00:22:12,434 --> 00:22:14,712
We were friends for 20
years before he passed,

512
00:22:14,747 --> 00:22:15,920
since I was seven.

513
00:22:17,025 --> 00:22:18,613
So it's an opportunity for me

514
00:22:18,647 --> 00:22:21,270
to give back a little
bit to his legacy,

515
00:22:21,305 --> 00:22:23,100
it's such a big
part of his legacy,

516
00:22:23,134 --> 00:22:25,930
and to make sure
as much as I can,

517
00:22:25,965 --> 00:22:27,138
that it's done right,

518
00:22:27,173 --> 00:22:30,245
and that it really
represents his essence.

519
00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:31,419
- Didn't get the job.

520
00:22:31,453 --> 00:22:33,006
Didn't know what to do.

521
00:22:33,041 --> 00:22:34,594
He was having this
sort of breakdown,

522
00:22:34,629 --> 00:22:38,460
and he started to write
a book about Michael,

523
00:22:38,495 --> 00:22:40,393
and tried to shop
that book around,

524
00:22:40,428 --> 00:22:43,223
and in it, claimed that
Michael Jackson had abused him.

525
00:22:52,612 --> 00:22:54,096
No one would have it,

526
00:22:54,131 --> 00:22:56,720
so that was when Wade Robson
went to a civil lawyer,

527
00:22:56,754 --> 00:22:58,549
and looked at his options,

528
00:22:58,584 --> 00:23:02,173
and eventually filed
a creditor's claim

529
00:23:02,208 --> 00:23:04,417
against the Michael
Jackson estate.

530
00:23:04,452 --> 00:23:08,214
It was initially at
1.5 billion dollars.

531
00:23:08,248 --> 00:23:10,009
I don't have an
intrinsic knowledge

532
00:23:10,043 --> 00:23:12,287
of the ins and outs of how
much it eventually was,

533
00:23:12,321 --> 00:23:14,013
but it's hundreds of
millions of dollars.

534
00:23:14,047 --> 00:23:17,913
He actually filed that
lawsuit, initially under seal.

535
00:23:17,948 --> 00:23:19,846
So if you file
something under seal,

536
00:23:19,881 --> 00:23:21,779
it doesn't become public record.

537
00:23:21,814 --> 00:23:23,816
He was hoping that
the estate would go,

538
00:23:23,850 --> 00:23:26,543
oh, here's X amount of money.

539
00:23:26,577 --> 00:23:27,475
Let's keep this quiet.

540
00:23:27,509 --> 00:23:29,442
Here's your money, go away.

541
00:23:29,477 --> 00:23:31,617
But the estate was
like, no chance.

542
00:23:31,651 --> 00:23:32,583
We're gonna fight this.

543
00:23:32,618 --> 00:23:34,102
That's when it became public.

544
00:23:35,172 --> 00:23:38,071
I'll go back to James Safechuck.

545
00:23:38,106 --> 00:23:39,487
He was watching Wade Robson,

546
00:23:39,521 --> 00:23:43,525
and this is May 2013,
watching Wade Robson on TV,

547
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,010
one of the TV shows in America,

548
00:23:46,045 --> 00:23:48,288
where Wade Robson
says I was abused,

549
00:23:48,323 --> 00:23:49,807
and all this stuff
happened to me,

550
00:23:49,842 --> 00:23:53,121
and James Safechuck said,
in his sworn declaration,

551
00:23:53,155 --> 00:23:54,985
that was what triggered
something in his mind,

552
00:23:55,019 --> 00:23:58,298
made him realize, I've been
abused by Michael Jackson, too.

553
00:23:58,333 --> 00:23:59,817
There have been so
many inconsistencies

554
00:23:59,852 --> 00:24:02,475
in terms of, when they knew
about this alleged abuse.

555
00:24:02,510 --> 00:24:05,167
Wade Robson is
saying that in 2005,

556
00:24:05,202 --> 00:24:07,307
I testified in Michael's defense

557
00:24:07,342 --> 00:24:09,137
because I saw his children.

558
00:24:09,171 --> 00:24:10,449
Michael was a friend.

559
00:24:10,483 --> 00:24:11,967
I didn't want him to go to jail.

560
00:24:12,002 --> 00:24:13,452
That's why I did it.

561
00:24:13,486 --> 00:24:15,868
And yet, then he's saying
that he only realized

562
00:24:15,902 --> 00:24:18,836
that he was abused in 2012-13,

563
00:24:18,871 --> 00:24:20,424
you've got that inconsistency.

564
00:24:20,459 --> 00:24:22,737
It's the same with Safechuck.

565
00:24:22,771 --> 00:24:26,085
2005, claiming that he
was asked to testify

566
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,984
in Michael Jackson's
trial, which is not true.

567
00:24:30,296 --> 00:24:32,298
Early on in the trial,
a judge ruled that

568
00:24:32,332 --> 00:24:37,199
any evidence as per James
Safechuck would not be admitted,

569
00:24:37,234 --> 00:24:39,270
would not be allowed
in the trial.

570
00:24:39,305 --> 00:24:41,514
Yet in the documentary
we see Safechuck saying,

571
00:24:41,549 --> 00:24:44,862
that Michael called me,
Michael's lawyers called me,

572
00:24:44,897 --> 00:24:46,519
but I refused to testify.

573
00:24:46,554 --> 00:24:48,832
He's saying that he knew
about the abuse in 2005.

574
00:24:48,866 --> 00:24:50,316
Michael was a bad man.

575
00:24:50,350 --> 00:24:51,697
I'm not gonna testify.

576
00:24:51,731 --> 00:24:53,699
Then he says that the
Wade Robson TV show

577
00:24:53,733 --> 00:24:57,288
is what triggered him into
realizing that he was abused.

578
00:24:57,323 --> 00:24:58,497
So you've got them saying,

579
00:24:58,531 --> 00:25:02,259
okay we suddenly
realized in 2012-13,

580
00:25:02,293 --> 00:25:04,606
that hey we knew, in 2005,

581
00:25:04,641 --> 00:25:07,540
because Wade Robson, I
was protecting Michael.

582
00:25:07,575 --> 00:25:10,336
Safechuck, I wasn't gonna
testify because he's a bad man.

583
00:25:10,370 --> 00:25:15,065
That's when James Safechuck
filed a copycat lawsuit.

584
00:25:15,099 --> 00:25:18,827
So from 2013, till 2017,

585
00:25:18,862 --> 00:25:22,279
you've got this ongoing
litigation with the estate.

586
00:25:22,313 --> 00:25:25,420
Eventually a judge
threw out the lawsuit,

587
00:25:25,454 --> 00:25:28,941
because of a thing called
statute of limitations.

588
00:25:28,975 --> 00:25:30,874
They just basically
filed it too late.

589
00:25:33,566 --> 00:25:37,984
A year later, you've got the
documentary film being made.

590
00:25:38,019 --> 00:25:43,024
- I watched it, and I
was saddened by the show.

591
00:25:44,853 --> 00:25:49,858
Victims of child abuse is a
very, very serious matter,

592
00:25:51,066 --> 00:25:54,587
but it didn't really
push anything about

593
00:25:54,622 --> 00:25:56,347
the child abuse thing.

594
00:25:57,521 --> 00:25:58,867
I don't know,

595
00:25:58,902 --> 00:26:03,423
I watched it and
all it was was like,

596
00:26:03,458 --> 00:26:04,977
watching a court
case where you heard

597
00:26:05,011 --> 00:26:06,875
the prosecution and no defense.

598
00:26:08,221 --> 00:26:11,155
It was so totally unbalanced,

599
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:14,158
and I don't know,

600
00:26:14,193 --> 00:26:16,367
I just, it made me feel sick.

601
00:26:16,402 --> 00:26:18,922
- That was, for them,
the obvious route.

602
00:26:18,956 --> 00:26:20,371
Let's make this thing public,

603
00:26:20,406 --> 00:26:22,166
let's make this a
worldwide issue.

604
00:26:22,201 --> 00:26:25,791
Can this help our appeal?

605
00:26:25,825 --> 00:26:27,931
Which isn't mentioned
in the documentary,

606
00:26:27,965 --> 00:26:30,658
against the decision by a
judge to throw out the case.

607
00:26:34,662 --> 00:26:36,629
- It's like I don't feel
like they want justice.

608
00:26:36,664 --> 00:26:39,908
If that was me, that
would be above anything.

609
00:26:39,943 --> 00:26:41,392
That is why I would want,

610
00:26:41,427 --> 00:26:44,775
but we don't want to be
going in front of a camera,

611
00:26:44,810 --> 00:26:49,159
talking about my experience
to people that don't know me.

612
00:26:49,193 --> 00:26:51,506
The first I would do
is, go to the police.

613
00:26:51,540 --> 00:26:53,991
I wouldn't be thinking like how,

614
00:26:54,854 --> 00:26:56,235
let's turn this into a book.

615
00:26:56,269 --> 00:26:58,202
Let's go and sue the family.

616
00:26:58,237 --> 00:27:00,342
Because, who does that?

617
00:27:00,377 --> 00:27:02,793
- I couldn't speak the truth
any earlier than I did.

618
00:27:02,828 --> 00:27:04,036
I wish I could have.

619
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:05,969
I wish I was emotionally

620
00:27:06,003 --> 00:27:09,938
and mentally capable
earlier, than I was.

621
00:27:09,973 --> 00:27:11,940
- I think being heard is

622
00:27:11,975 --> 00:27:16,980
probably one of the number
one wants of a victim.

623
00:27:17,601 --> 00:27:20,466
But also,

624
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:21,985
when all this goes away,

625
00:27:22,019 --> 00:27:24,366
and the interest goes away,

626
00:27:24,401 --> 00:27:26,748
we're still left
with being abused.

627
00:27:26,783 --> 00:27:29,026
- So much silence,
and so much isolation,

628
00:27:29,061 --> 00:27:32,236
which I experienced,
James experienced,

629
00:27:32,271 --> 00:27:34,273
and most survivors experience.

630
00:27:35,481 --> 00:27:38,311
So being heard is
a powerful thing.

631
00:27:38,346 --> 00:27:40,486
We can't control
what people believe.

632
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,315
That's up to
people's own journey.

633
00:27:42,350 --> 00:27:45,077
- All of Michael's accusers,
it's always been about money.

634
00:27:45,111 --> 00:27:47,873
- It's never because
there's evidence

635
00:27:47,907 --> 00:27:49,737
that he's done
this or done that.

636
00:27:49,771 --> 00:27:52,498
It's always money, always
going for the money first.

637
00:27:52,532 --> 00:27:54,431
Or they wait until he dies,
and goes for the money,

638
00:27:54,465 --> 00:27:56,778
because they know a
criminal trial won't work,

639
00:27:56,813 --> 00:27:58,331
so it's always financial.

640
00:28:03,095 --> 00:28:04,821
- Let's start at the beginning.

641
00:28:04,855 --> 00:28:06,615
So when there's money involved,

642
00:28:06,650 --> 00:28:09,204
that automatically
should make people wary.

643
00:28:09,239 --> 00:28:10,654
What are their intentions here?

644
00:28:10,689 --> 00:28:14,451
And then you've got
previous behavior in court.

645
00:28:14,485 --> 00:28:17,903
Wade Robson and Jimmy
Safechuck are perjurers,

646
00:28:17,937 --> 00:28:20,388
because they
testified under oath.

647
00:28:20,422 --> 00:28:24,495
So Safechuck back
in '93, and Robson.

648
00:28:24,530 --> 00:28:27,844
Michael Jackson never did
anything, sworn declaration,

649
00:28:27,878 --> 00:28:30,570
signed, under
penalty of perjury.

650
00:28:30,605 --> 00:28:34,643
2005, Wade Robson
testified in court,

651
00:28:34,678 --> 00:28:36,956
under oath, under
penalty of perjury,

652
00:28:36,991 --> 00:28:38,682
nothing ever happened.

653
00:28:38,717 --> 00:28:42,513
- What I find odd
is the fact that

654
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,654
Mesereau, Michael's lawyer,

655
00:28:45,689 --> 00:28:48,278
who is an extremely
high-powered lawyer,

656
00:28:48,312 --> 00:28:51,177
who would have obviously
interviewed this kid,

657
00:28:51,212 --> 00:28:53,939
in depth, and you're
talking about one of the top

658
00:28:53,973 --> 00:28:55,699
lawyers in America,

659
00:28:55,734 --> 00:28:58,184
and if he was convinced that

660
00:28:58,219 --> 00:29:00,083
he was safe to put on the stand,

661
00:29:01,498 --> 00:29:02,361
I don't know,

662
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,674
it baffles me.

663
00:29:05,709 --> 00:29:08,091
- So already you've got
credibility issues there.

664
00:29:08,125 --> 00:29:09,609
You've got the financial aspect,

665
00:29:09,644 --> 00:29:10,990
and you've got the credibility,

666
00:29:11,025 --> 00:29:12,612
due to previous statements.

667
00:29:12,647 --> 00:29:14,304
If there was a court case,

668
00:29:14,338 --> 00:29:15,892
if Michael Jackson was alive,

669
00:29:15,926 --> 00:29:18,066
Michael's defense
would try and impeach

670
00:29:18,101 --> 00:29:21,311
those witnesses by
bringing into evidence

671
00:29:21,345 --> 00:29:22,933
previous inconsistent
statements,

672
00:29:22,968 --> 00:29:25,971
and that would include Michael
Jackson never did anything,

673
00:29:26,005 --> 00:29:28,387
under oath, under
penalty of perjury.

674
00:29:30,251 --> 00:29:32,736
That alone is enough

675
00:29:32,771 --> 00:29:36,188
to make all the allegations
highly not credible.

676
00:29:38,466 --> 00:29:40,675
The first time that
Wade Robson alleges

677
00:29:40,709 --> 00:29:45,231
that he was abused by Michael
Jackson, was in January 1990.

678
00:29:47,095 --> 00:29:50,305
The Robson family went
to Record One Studios,

679
00:29:50,340 --> 00:29:51,548
while Michael was working

680
00:29:51,582 --> 00:29:53,826
on the album that
became, "Dangerous."

681
00:29:53,861 --> 00:29:54,931
Michael said, why
don't you come up

682
00:29:54,965 --> 00:29:57,071
to Neverland for the weekend?

683
00:29:57,105 --> 00:29:58,797
To the whole family,
the whole Robson family.

684
00:29:58,831 --> 00:30:01,144
So that was Wade,
Chantal, his sister,

685
00:30:01,178 --> 00:30:04,630
her mother, Joy, and her
parents, so Wade's grandparents.

686
00:30:04,664 --> 00:30:06,977
All whisked up to
Neverland for the weekend.

687
00:30:07,012 --> 00:30:09,842
They stayed for two
nights, the whole family.

688
00:30:09,877 --> 00:30:13,432
And both Wade, and Joy Robson,

689
00:30:13,466 --> 00:30:16,159
said under oath, that
those first two nights,

690
00:30:16,193 --> 00:30:19,610
Wade and Chantal slept with
Michael, in Michael's bedroom.

691
00:30:19,645 --> 00:30:20,922
Nothing happened.

692
00:30:20,957 --> 00:30:23,649
Wade said in the documentary,
nothing happened.

693
00:30:23,683 --> 00:30:25,858
- And I've slept in the
same bed as Michael.

694
00:30:25,893 --> 00:30:28,136
He says, you watch
cartoons, you fall asleep.

695
00:30:28,171 --> 00:30:29,758
You know, it's
just a friendship,

696
00:30:29,793 --> 00:30:32,382
and I know he would never do
anything to hurt my brother.

697
00:30:32,416 --> 00:30:34,625
He's the nicest guy
you've ever met.

698
00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:37,490
- I've been there
when these kids

699
00:30:37,525 --> 00:30:38,629
have been in Michael's room.

700
00:30:38,664 --> 00:30:39,941
I've been there with them.

701
00:30:39,976 --> 00:30:41,563
It's just party time.

702
00:30:41,598 --> 00:30:42,702
They watch videos,

703
00:30:42,737 --> 00:30:44,359
they eat junk food,

704
00:30:44,394 --> 00:30:47,190
they play video games.

705
00:30:47,224 --> 00:30:49,709
They play so hard,

706
00:30:49,744 --> 00:30:52,954
they fall asleep, they're
exhausted, they fall asleep.

707
00:30:52,989 --> 00:30:54,197
There's nothing more
to it than that.

708
00:30:54,231 --> 00:30:55,474
- [Interviewer]
From your standpoint

709
00:30:55,508 --> 00:30:58,028
does it seem unusual
for a 34-year-old man

710
00:30:58,063 --> 00:31:00,479
to have kids sleeping over?

711
00:31:00,513 --> 00:31:02,377
- Not when you know
Michael's background.

712
00:31:02,412 --> 00:31:05,139
Under normal circumstances,
possibly yes.

713
00:31:05,173 --> 00:31:08,763
But Michael, everybody knows
he didn't have a childhood.

714
00:31:12,422 --> 00:31:13,975
- Then, the rest
of Robson's family

715
00:31:14,010 --> 00:31:15,839
went away to the Grand Canyon.

716
00:31:15,874 --> 00:31:18,186
Wade says that after the
first couple of nights,

717
00:31:18,221 --> 00:31:21,534
he saw Michael hunched
in a corner, crying,

718
00:31:21,569 --> 00:31:23,812
that he didn't want to
Robson family to leave him.

719
00:31:23,847 --> 00:31:27,540
But the Robson family was
touring America at the time.

720
00:31:28,438 --> 00:31:30,336
So the story goes that

721
00:31:31,441 --> 00:31:32,891
Wade stayed at Neverland,

722
00:31:32,925 --> 00:31:36,204
and the rest of the family
went away to the Grand Canyon,

723
00:31:36,239 --> 00:31:39,242
leaving little
seven-year-old Wade Robson

724
00:31:39,276 --> 00:31:40,899
alone at Neverland.

725
00:31:40,933 --> 00:31:43,142
He says that slowly,
as those days went on,

726
00:31:43,177 --> 00:31:46,421
he was abused by Michael
Jackson, for the first time,

727
00:31:46,456 --> 00:31:48,941
and goes into real
livid detail about that.

728
00:31:48,976 --> 00:31:50,839
His whole story that it
happened that first time,

729
00:31:50,874 --> 00:31:52,082
that first weekend.

730
00:31:52,117 --> 00:31:55,051
So I had a source
who could provide me

731
00:31:55,085 --> 00:31:57,363
with some court transcripts.

732
00:31:57,398 --> 00:32:00,642
Joy Robson, in a
deposition from '93,

733
00:32:00,677 --> 00:32:03,369
and I discovered that
during that deposition,

734
00:32:03,404 --> 00:32:04,612
Joy Robson said that,

735
00:32:05,958 --> 00:32:08,202
yeah we went to Neverland
for the weekend,
the whole family,

736
00:32:08,236 --> 00:32:09,755
and stayed a couple of nights,

737
00:32:09,789 --> 00:32:13,483
and then the whole family then
went off to the Grand Canyon.

738
00:32:13,517 --> 00:32:15,140
So they didn't
leave Wade behind.

739
00:32:16,624 --> 00:32:20,904
She then said that again,
in 2016, in a deposition,

740
00:32:20,939 --> 00:32:23,631
for the civil lawsuit,
which is very odd,

741
00:32:23,665 --> 00:32:25,736
because Wade's whole story is,

742
00:32:25,771 --> 00:32:28,325
I was left behind
while my family

743
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:29,878
went off to the Grand Canyon.

744
00:32:29,913 --> 00:32:32,536
But Joy Robson says that
the whole family went,

745
00:32:32,571 --> 00:32:34,918
naming Wade as having
gone with them.

746
00:32:36,782 --> 00:32:39,992
And Joy has also previously
testified under oath,

747
00:32:40,027 --> 00:32:42,581
that the first time Wade
was alone with Michael

748
00:32:42,615 --> 00:32:44,686
at Neverland was '93.

749
00:32:44,721 --> 00:32:47,827
And then in a different,
totally different case,

750
00:32:47,862 --> 00:32:51,003
Wade Robson, in 2005 also says,

751
00:32:51,038 --> 00:32:53,764
the last time I was alone
with Michael was in 1993.

752
00:32:53,799 --> 00:32:55,801
So you've got these
statements made

753
00:32:55,835 --> 00:32:58,700
by both Joy and
Wade, under oath,

754
00:32:58,735 --> 00:33:00,219
on three or four occasions,

755
00:33:00,254 --> 00:33:03,257
where that story is,
we stayed two nights,

756
00:33:03,291 --> 00:33:05,811
we went off to the
Grand Canyon, all of us.

757
00:33:05,845 --> 00:33:10,643
Wade Robson has never been at
Neverland alone until 1993.

758
00:33:14,751 --> 00:33:16,235
- He's not just
getting dates mixed up,

759
00:33:16,270 --> 00:33:18,997
because Joy Robson was an
adult, in the early 90's,

760
00:33:19,031 --> 00:33:22,621
and she gave this
deposition two years

761
00:33:22,655 --> 00:33:24,347
after the first Neverland trip.

762
00:33:24,381 --> 00:33:25,969
She would have remembered then,

763
00:33:27,074 --> 00:33:28,799
that first weekend at Neverland,

764
00:33:28,834 --> 00:33:30,560
Wade came with us
to the Grand Canyon.

765
00:33:30,594 --> 00:33:32,769
It's not 15 years later,
did he, didn't he?

766
00:33:32,803 --> 00:33:35,806
No, they said Wade came
with us to the Grand Canyon.

767
00:33:35,841 --> 00:33:37,912
Why would you then
lie about that?

768
00:33:44,919 --> 00:33:46,714
In the "Leaving
Neverland" documentary,

769
00:33:46,748 --> 00:33:49,613
James Safechuck gives this
detailed story about how

770
00:33:49,648 --> 00:33:51,063
he was abused in
different places

771
00:33:51,098 --> 00:33:53,307
around Neverland
by Michael Jackson,

772
00:33:53,341 --> 00:33:55,585
including the grand
train station,

773
00:33:55,619 --> 00:33:58,622
which people will know
because of the floral clock

774
00:33:58,657 --> 00:34:01,349
in front, it's quite
an iconic piece.

775
00:34:01,384 --> 00:34:03,248
So he goes into this detail
about how he was abused

776
00:34:03,282 --> 00:34:06,803
in a room upstairs, and
pictures appear on the screen,

777
00:34:06,837 --> 00:34:08,563
so it's definitely
that train station,

778
00:34:08,598 --> 00:34:10,565
and he says it
happened every day,

779
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:11,877
and he says of the how,

780
00:34:13,051 --> 00:34:15,536
it's something that
happens when you first

781
00:34:15,570 --> 00:34:17,572
get into a relationship
and things are exciting.

782
00:34:17,607 --> 00:34:21,162
That to me would indicate that
he's talking about the stars,

783
00:34:21,197 --> 00:34:23,820
when he was abused by
Michael Jackson allegedly.

784
00:34:23,854 --> 00:34:27,099
So his time period where
he alleges he was abused,

785
00:34:27,134 --> 00:34:30,723
began, signed two
sworn declarations,

786
00:34:30,758 --> 00:34:33,001
under penalty of perjury that

787
00:34:33,036 --> 00:34:37,005
he was abused between
1988 and 1992,

788
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,248
until he was 14.

789
00:34:38,283 --> 00:34:39,870
The narrative of the
whole thing is that,

790
00:34:39,905 --> 00:34:43,460
"I got too big, I got too
old, Michael moved on."

791
00:34:43,495 --> 00:34:45,152
He started phasing me out,

792
00:34:45,186 --> 00:34:46,912
and replaced me essentially.

793
00:34:46,946 --> 00:34:48,914
So if we've got
that time line of,

794
00:34:48,948 --> 00:34:51,261
I was abused between
1988 and '92,

795
00:34:51,296 --> 00:34:53,643
the train station abuse
must have happened

796
00:34:53,677 --> 00:34:55,714
during that time period.

797
00:34:55,748 --> 00:34:57,267
And then a fan pointed
out that the train station

798
00:34:57,302 --> 00:34:58,751
didn't open until 1994,

799
00:35:01,133 --> 00:35:03,170
by which time Safechuck was 16.

800
00:35:05,033 --> 00:35:06,414
They got a couple of pictures,

801
00:35:06,449 --> 00:35:08,934
a couple of Associated
Press Getty Images pictures

802
00:35:08,968 --> 00:35:11,971
of footage of
Neverland from 1991,

803
00:35:12,006 --> 00:35:13,318
Elizabeth Taylor's wedding,

804
00:35:13,352 --> 00:35:16,252
footage above Neverland,
from a helicopter,

805
00:35:16,286 --> 00:35:17,322
no train station.

806
00:35:19,289 --> 00:35:20,946
So the fans had
established that,

807
00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:22,637
that prompted me
to use my source

808
00:35:22,672 --> 00:35:24,087
to try and narrow this down.

809
00:35:26,124 --> 00:35:30,887
Let's prove that this train
station didn't exist until '94.

810
00:35:33,407 --> 00:35:35,512
So I managed to get hold of
the construction permits,

811
00:35:35,547 --> 00:35:38,688
which showed that
the train station

812
00:35:38,722 --> 00:35:43,106
was not approved for
construction until
September, 1993.

813
00:35:43,141 --> 00:35:46,523
There was an image taken
by a press photographer

814
00:35:46,558 --> 00:35:50,320
on the 25th of August,
'93, from a helicopter.

815
00:35:50,355 --> 00:35:51,597
His name is Steven Starr,

816
00:35:51,632 --> 00:35:54,600
so he was working
in an office in LA.

817
00:35:54,635 --> 00:35:57,155
The reason he was flying
over Neverland on that day,

818
00:35:57,189 --> 00:35:59,329
was because of the allegations,

819
00:35:59,364 --> 00:36:01,193
which itself was
two days earlier.

820
00:36:01,228 --> 00:36:03,471
So Steve, get yourself
in a helicopter,

821
00:36:03,506 --> 00:36:05,818
take some pictures of
Neverland from above.

822
00:36:05,853 --> 00:36:08,062
Those pictures show
no train station.

823
00:36:09,201 --> 00:36:11,755
And I contacted Steve
Starr personally,

824
00:36:11,790 --> 00:36:15,207
and he confirmed that
25th of August, '93,

825
00:36:15,242 --> 00:36:17,934
is the correct day for
when he took that picture,

826
00:36:17,968 --> 00:36:19,315
no train station,

827
00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:22,525
and then you've got the
permits approved a month later.

828
00:36:24,251 --> 00:36:25,459
So you've got real
solid evidence

829
00:36:25,493 --> 00:36:27,461
that there was no
train station until,

830
00:36:27,495 --> 00:36:31,637
the building didn't
begin until late '93,

831
00:36:31,672 --> 00:36:32,707
opened in 1994.

832
00:36:33,950 --> 00:36:36,573
Michael Jackson in '94,
was living in New York,

833
00:36:36,608 --> 00:36:39,197
to record the "History"
album, a couple of reasons,

834
00:36:39,231 --> 00:36:42,372
to get out of California because
of the DA going after him.

835
00:36:42,407 --> 00:36:44,926
There was an earthquake
in LA in early '94,

836
00:36:44,961 --> 00:36:46,342
and he was a bit
scared about that,

837
00:36:46,376 --> 00:36:48,516
so he wanted to move the
entire operation to New York.

838
00:36:48,551 --> 00:36:50,691
Michael Jackson
wasn't in LA in '94,

839
00:36:50,725 --> 00:36:51,899
but the point being,

840
00:36:51,933 --> 00:36:54,384
you've got a two-year
discrepancy there.

841
00:36:54,419 --> 00:36:57,111
Safechuck saying, the
abuse stopped, I was 14.

842
00:36:57,145 --> 00:37:00,701
It was 1992, going
into vivid detail

843
00:37:00,735 --> 00:37:03,082
about abuse happening
in the train station,

844
00:37:03,117 --> 00:37:04,118
in an upstairs room.

845
00:37:05,015 --> 00:37:06,465
That's a massive discrepancy.

846
00:37:11,677 --> 00:37:12,885
Those are the two main ones,

847
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,266
Wade Robson and
the Grand Canyon,

848
00:37:14,301 --> 00:37:16,544
and Jimmy Safechuck
in the train station.

849
00:37:16,579 --> 00:37:18,236
Then we go back to
Wade Robson's behavior

850
00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:19,754
in the civil lawsuit.

851
00:37:19,789 --> 00:37:22,481
Wade Robson files his lawsuits

852
00:37:22,516 --> 00:37:25,173
in I believe it was March, 2013.

853
00:37:26,865 --> 00:37:31,801
He's saying that he realized
he was abused in May, 2012.

854
00:37:33,216 --> 00:37:36,012
Under US law you've got 60 days

855
00:37:36,046 --> 00:37:38,704
from the period of knowing
that you've been abused,

856
00:37:38,739 --> 00:37:40,672
or realizing you've been abused,

857
00:37:40,706 --> 00:37:43,261
to file a creditor's claim,

858
00:37:43,295 --> 00:37:45,573
but Wade Robson filed
that 10 months too late.

859
00:37:46,678 --> 00:37:48,127
To get around that,

860
00:37:48,162 --> 00:37:50,337
he claimed, I didn't know that
the Michael Jackson estate

861
00:37:50,371 --> 00:37:52,442
was open for administration.

862
00:37:52,477 --> 00:37:56,791
So I didn't know who to sue.

863
00:37:56,826 --> 00:37:59,138
But then, evidence
came out in that case,

864
00:37:59,173 --> 00:38:02,659
that Wade Robson was aware of
the Michael Jackson estate,

865
00:38:02,694 --> 00:38:07,181
because in 2011, he'd
met with John Branca,

866
00:38:07,215 --> 00:38:08,700
the co-executor of the estate,

867
00:38:08,734 --> 00:38:09,770
but this had [mumbles],

868
00:38:10,978 --> 00:38:13,808
so the judge ruled
that Wade Robson

869
00:38:13,843 --> 00:38:16,328
had lied in his
sworn declaration.

870
00:38:16,363 --> 00:38:18,261
Lying under oath, under
penalty of perjury,

871
00:38:18,296 --> 00:38:19,745
just to be able to sue.

872
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,716
[light instrumental music]

873
00:38:28,375 --> 00:38:32,102
- Neverland was built
as, A, a safety boho,

874
00:38:32,137 --> 00:38:35,002
where no one could get in.

875
00:38:35,036 --> 00:38:36,452
It was a big property,

876
00:38:36,486 --> 00:38:40,766
it was the size of Hyde
Park, the whole area of it.

877
00:38:40,801 --> 00:38:44,080
Then he had his
movie theater built,

878
00:38:44,114 --> 00:38:47,877
which was like a
100-seater movie theater,

879
00:38:47,911 --> 00:38:52,916
beautifully done, like a small
cinema with a big screen.

880
00:38:54,090 --> 00:38:56,299
Then he had his
fairgrounds built,

881
00:38:56,334 --> 00:38:57,680
for his own entertainment,

882
00:38:57,714 --> 00:38:59,475
then he had his zoo,

883
00:38:59,509 --> 00:39:02,719
so that he had
kind of everything.

884
00:39:02,754 --> 00:39:05,343
- But Neverland was not
really a home for him.

885
00:39:05,377 --> 00:39:08,207
That was somewhere he
would return to go back,

886
00:39:08,242 --> 00:39:10,417
and to show himself,

887
00:39:10,451 --> 00:39:14,248
and it was built really
for sick children.

888
00:39:14,282 --> 00:39:15,939
He would have Make
A Wish Foundation,

889
00:39:15,974 --> 00:39:18,286
coachloads of kids,
thousands and thousands

890
00:39:18,321 --> 00:39:19,840
would go through
there every year.

891
00:39:19,874 --> 00:39:22,843
And then he would make sure,
he would try and show his face,

892
00:39:22,877 --> 00:39:24,603
and come out to the
kids, and so on.

893
00:39:24,638 --> 00:39:26,709
He would fly in
from wherever he is.

894
00:39:26,743 --> 00:39:27,641
Because being in Neverland,

895
00:39:27,675 --> 00:39:29,125
it's in the middle of nowhere.

896
00:39:29,159 --> 00:39:31,403
He used to hate the drive
from Neverland to Los Angeles.

897
00:39:31,438 --> 00:39:33,060
He had a permanent suite,

898
00:39:33,094 --> 00:39:36,408
and an apartment at one
stage, in Los Angeles.

899
00:39:36,443 --> 00:39:38,410
He had a permanent place at
the Beverly Wilshire Hotel,

900
00:39:38,445 --> 00:39:40,447
called the Michael Jackson
Suite, too in the end,

901
00:39:40,481 --> 00:39:42,380
because he used to
rent it out full-time.

902
00:39:42,414 --> 00:39:45,072
He needed to be in the
city, and do business,

903
00:39:45,106 --> 00:39:46,591
not up in the valley.

904
00:39:46,625 --> 00:39:47,730
He was rarely there.

905
00:39:51,768 --> 00:39:54,461
A lot of people make this
big deal about an alarm,

906
00:39:54,495 --> 00:39:56,670
that when you walk up to
Michael Jackson's bedroom,

907
00:39:56,704 --> 00:39:59,466
you go down the corridor,
and an alarm goes off.

908
00:39:59,500 --> 00:40:01,399
That's completely true.

909
00:40:01,433 --> 00:40:04,402
Now, not only is that in
Michael Jackson's house,

910
00:40:04,436 --> 00:40:06,645
since Michael died
I've gone on to work

911
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,509
for a lot of big superstars,

912
00:40:08,544 --> 00:40:09,752
they have alarms too.

913
00:40:09,786 --> 00:40:10,684
It's just the same thing.

914
00:40:10,718 --> 00:40:12,893
It's just a sensor, walks along,

915
00:40:12,927 --> 00:40:14,584
just in case there's an
intruder in the night,

916
00:40:14,619 --> 00:40:16,931
they can get to
their escape route.

917
00:40:16,966 --> 00:40:18,864
Michael made sure that
was already in place,

918
00:40:18,899 --> 00:40:20,107
a security team.

919
00:40:20,141 --> 00:40:23,490
So whenever you walk,
alarm bells would go off

920
00:40:23,524 --> 00:40:24,491
in Michael's room,

921
00:40:24,525 --> 00:40:26,424
to say someone is approaching.

922
00:40:26,458 --> 00:40:28,253
And that was for him to wake up,

923
00:40:28,287 --> 00:40:30,669
everything's okay, it's the
middle of the night, and so on.

924
00:40:30,704 --> 00:40:33,327
They also go on about
this abuse room,

925
00:40:33,361 --> 00:40:34,949
the sexual secret room.

926
00:40:34,984 --> 00:40:37,469
Now that angers me a lot,

927
00:40:37,504 --> 00:40:39,782
because for a start, let's
talk about Michael's bedroom,

928
00:40:39,816 --> 00:40:41,887
it's two stories, it's massive,

929
00:40:41,922 --> 00:40:45,891
it's the normal size
of a house, basically,

930
00:40:45,926 --> 00:40:48,929
and he does have a secret room,
if you want to call it that.

931
00:40:48,963 --> 00:40:52,726
Now that room was built
before he bought Neverland.

932
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,176
He recorded a video
called, "Say, Say, Say,"

933
00:40:55,211 --> 00:40:56,937
with Paul McCartney there,

934
00:40:56,971 --> 00:40:58,973
it was called
Sycamore Valley then,

935
00:40:59,008 --> 00:41:01,666
and he liked the property
so much, he liked the ranch,

936
00:41:01,700 --> 00:41:03,184
he wanted to buy it.

937
00:41:03,219 --> 00:41:06,015
And it's quite standard for
houses of that magnitude,

938
00:41:06,049 --> 00:41:07,810
to have panic rooms,

939
00:41:07,844 --> 00:41:09,777
and it had a panic room
already built in there.

940
00:41:09,812 --> 00:41:11,710
And that's what we're
talking about here,

941
00:41:11,745 --> 00:41:13,263
we're not talking about

942
00:41:13,298 --> 00:41:16,094
an abuse room, a sex abuse
room, anything like that.

943
00:41:16,128 --> 00:41:19,028
That was where Michael went
when the alarms went off,

944
00:41:19,062 --> 00:41:20,236
or when head of security,

945
00:41:20,270 --> 00:41:22,065
or someone at
Neverland alerting us

946
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:23,273
that something had gone awry,

947
00:41:23,308 --> 00:41:25,897
he would run to,
and shut himself in,

948
00:41:25,931 --> 00:41:28,624
and he would have stuff in
there that would entertain him,

949
00:41:28,658 --> 00:41:30,142
because he would be in
there for some hours

950
00:41:30,177 --> 00:41:32,697
waiting for the police
to turn up, and so on.

951
00:41:32,731 --> 00:41:34,492
Because Neverland is in
the middle of nowhere.

952
00:41:34,526 --> 00:41:37,598
So he would have,
watched Disney films,

953
00:41:37,633 --> 00:41:39,324
and what may not be
normal to normal people,

954
00:41:39,358 --> 00:41:41,706
but he ain't normal,
he's Michael Jackson.

955
00:41:41,740 --> 00:41:43,190
He'd been raised differently.

956
00:41:46,573 --> 00:41:50,991
Michael was guarded as much
as the President literally.

957
00:41:51,025 --> 00:41:53,303
He's the most
famous man on Earth.

958
00:41:53,338 --> 00:41:55,271
So from a bodyguard's
point of view,

959
00:41:55,305 --> 00:41:57,825
it's very hard to understand

960
00:41:57,860 --> 00:42:01,553
how these allegations
could be true.

961
00:42:01,588 --> 00:42:06,316
Because he was the most
protected man on Earth.

962
00:42:06,351 --> 00:42:08,664
He had security
like the President.

963
00:42:08,698 --> 00:42:10,873
So if we talk about
along the road,

964
00:42:10,907 --> 00:42:13,496
you would have, you would
get there the day before.

965
00:42:13,531 --> 00:42:15,084
You'd go directly to the hotel.

966
00:42:15,118 --> 00:42:17,258
You'd go through the
fire exits, and so on.

967
00:42:17,293 --> 00:42:21,262
You'd put security sensor
mats outside his door,

968
00:42:21,297 --> 00:42:23,610
or any entrance to
wherever his suite is.

969
00:42:23,644 --> 00:42:26,785
You'd put a camera up
top of his bedroom door,

970
00:42:26,820 --> 00:42:29,201
a camera outside
the hallway door.

971
00:42:29,236 --> 00:42:31,410
A camera at the front,
a camera at the hallway.

972
00:42:31,445 --> 00:42:32,998
There'd be nobody
coming on either side.

973
00:42:33,033 --> 00:42:34,724
There'll be nighttime security,

974
00:42:34,759 --> 00:42:36,830
which is actually
my brother-in-law,
believe it or not,

975
00:42:36,864 --> 00:42:39,211
who would stand outside
his door all night, too.

976
00:42:39,246 --> 00:42:41,248
So it was unbelievable.

977
00:42:46,322 --> 00:42:47,426
Child abuse is a serious thing,

978
00:42:47,461 --> 00:42:49,428
it's a huge, serious matter.

979
00:42:49,463 --> 00:42:52,535
I'm not here to discredit
that in any way at all.

980
00:42:52,570 --> 00:42:55,089
I'm here to just
prove, from my side,

981
00:42:55,124 --> 00:42:56,677
from a bodyguard's
point of view,

982
00:42:56,712 --> 00:42:58,921
and a friend who'd
been around Michael,

983
00:42:58,955 --> 00:43:01,371
how difficult it would have been

984
00:43:01,406 --> 00:43:05,548
for Wade and James to go
unnoticed at any time,

985
00:43:05,583 --> 00:43:08,689
and for them to have what
they said done to them,

986
00:43:08,724 --> 00:43:12,141
by Michael, when there's
so many staff around.

987
00:43:12,175 --> 00:43:14,246
I mean it's unbelievable.

988
00:43:14,281 --> 00:43:16,766
- I think people have
always had in their minds,

989
00:43:16,801 --> 00:43:18,561
like one way or the other,

990
00:43:18,596 --> 00:43:20,390
whether they believe
he's innocent or guilty,

991
00:43:20,425 --> 00:43:23,635
I think once they have
that idea in their head

992
00:43:23,670 --> 00:43:26,638
no matter how much
evidence is put forward,

993
00:43:26,673 --> 00:43:31,505
I don't think anyone's
mind ever gets swayed.

994
00:43:31,539 --> 00:43:34,646
And I do think once you've
got that image in your head,

995
00:43:34,681 --> 00:43:36,855
if you think that he's guilty,

996
00:43:36,890 --> 00:43:39,686
it doesn't matter how much
evidence comes forward,

997
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:41,032
or how many people speak out

998
00:43:41,066 --> 00:43:42,723
and give their
version of events,

999
00:43:42,758 --> 00:43:44,760
there's an image that
the media I think

1000
00:43:44,794 --> 00:43:45,864
want you to have of him,

1001
00:43:45,899 --> 00:43:49,868
and it's almost like any
evidence that comes out,

1002
00:43:49,903 --> 00:43:52,043
disproving what they've said,

1003
00:43:52,077 --> 00:43:54,804
it's like they
don't want to know.

1004
00:43:54,839 --> 00:43:57,635
If you consider what
there is out there,

1005
00:43:57,669 --> 00:44:01,811
that actually shows him
in an innocent light.

1006
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,089
Versus what doesn't,

1007
00:44:04,124 --> 00:44:07,403
I mean it completely
is like, staggering,

1008
00:44:07,437 --> 00:44:09,992
how much evidence there
is to support the fact

1009
00:44:10,026 --> 00:44:12,304
that he is an innocent man,

1010
00:44:12,339 --> 00:44:15,135
and people don't want to
hear it, they really don't.

1011
00:44:15,169 --> 00:44:17,724
And he went to court,
he was acquitted.

1012
00:44:19,173 --> 00:44:22,073
His Neverland home was raided.

1013
00:44:22,107 --> 00:44:24,040
The FBI investigated
him for 10 years,

1014
00:44:24,075 --> 00:44:26,733
and people forget about that,
and when it's brought up,

1015
00:44:26,767 --> 00:44:29,356
it's like they don't care,
they don't want to hear that.

1016
00:44:29,390 --> 00:44:32,428
I could make a claim that
something's happened to me,

1017
00:44:32,462 --> 00:44:34,154
and people would believe it.

1018
00:44:37,778 --> 00:44:40,367
- I don't think this is
a deliberate hijacking

1019
00:44:40,401 --> 00:44:42,610
or piggybacking on to #MeToo.

1020
00:44:42,645 --> 00:44:47,305
These allegations were first
made way before that, 2013.

1021
00:44:47,339 --> 00:44:48,582
What I do believe,

1022
00:44:48,616 --> 00:44:51,792
is that #MeToo protects
the documentary.

1023
00:44:51,827 --> 00:44:54,864
The media are very, very scared,

1024
00:44:54,899 --> 00:44:58,040
very wary, of doing
any investigation work,

1025
00:44:58,074 --> 00:45:00,007
or questioning this
documentary whatsoever,

1026
00:45:00,042 --> 00:45:01,388
because of #MeToo.

1027
00:45:01,422 --> 00:45:04,874
Because we cannot
challenge any more,

1028
00:45:04,909 --> 00:45:07,981
we cannot question
alleged victims,

1029
00:45:08,015 --> 00:45:09,948
which goes against
all journalism.

1030
00:45:09,983 --> 00:45:11,570
Journalism is about
seeking the truth.

1031
00:45:11,605 --> 00:45:13,538
If you upset some
people, then so be it.

1032
00:45:13,572 --> 00:45:16,299
So #MeToo really protects
"Leaving Neverland,"

1033
00:45:16,334 --> 00:45:18,957
really protects Safechuck,
Robson, and Dan Reed,

1034
00:45:18,992 --> 00:45:22,133
because the media will not
challenge the allegations.

1035
00:45:23,824 --> 00:45:25,653
For example, the work
I've done in the media,

1036
00:45:25,688 --> 00:45:28,967
I know that people will
probably look at that as

1037
00:45:29,002 --> 00:45:32,730
victim-shaming, or be on the
side of this alleged pedophile,

1038
00:45:32,764 --> 00:45:34,490
but for me that's not the case.

1039
00:45:34,524 --> 00:45:37,769
If people see me
in a negative light

1040
00:45:37,804 --> 00:45:40,013
because of the research
I'm doing, so be it,

1041
00:45:40,047 --> 00:45:41,877
because I want to
seek the truth.

1042
00:45:41,911 --> 00:45:45,018
I want to put this
under a microscope,

1043
00:45:45,052 --> 00:45:47,020
and do my job as a journalist,

1044
00:45:47,054 --> 00:45:49,401
and try and seek the truth.

1045
00:45:49,436 --> 00:45:53,060
The coverage in the media has
been, again, so one-sided,

1046
00:45:53,095 --> 00:45:55,442
and no journalist can be
bothered to do their job.

1047
00:45:55,476 --> 00:45:56,615
It's all copy and paste,

1048
00:45:56,650 --> 00:45:58,652
copy and paste each article,

1049
00:45:58,686 --> 00:46:01,241
and all this, Michael Jackson
needs to be counseled.

1050
00:46:01,275 --> 00:46:03,795
No challenge made
whatsoever because

1051
00:46:03,830 --> 00:46:07,385
journalists are scared of the
damage to their reputations.

1052
00:46:10,043 --> 00:46:12,252
People think I'm
defending Michael Jackson.

1053
00:46:12,286 --> 00:46:14,668
Directly I guess, yes I am,

1054
00:46:14,702 --> 00:46:17,050
but what I'm trying
to do is balance

1055
00:46:17,084 --> 00:46:18,983
what didn't happen
from the beginning.

1056
00:46:20,743 --> 00:46:23,366
So from the beginning,
Dan Reed, the director,

1057
00:46:23,401 --> 00:46:25,299
not investigating the claims,

1058
00:46:25,334 --> 00:46:29,476
not making a balanced,
50-50 documentary where

1059
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:31,443
we interview Robson
and Safechuck,

1060
00:46:31,478 --> 00:46:32,997
and then we challenge them

1061
00:46:33,031 --> 00:46:35,068
about all the different
inconsistencies,

1062
00:46:35,102 --> 00:46:38,105
about the lawsuit, about
the financial motive.

1063
00:46:41,557 --> 00:46:43,801
#MeToo is at its core,

1064
00:46:43,835 --> 00:46:46,700
a great cause, for people
to be able to speak out,

1065
00:46:46,734 --> 00:46:48,219
that's fantastic, that's great.

1066
00:46:48,253 --> 00:46:53,120
The core values of #MeToo
are incredibly positive,

1067
00:46:53,155 --> 00:46:55,502
but when that gags the media,

1068
00:46:55,536 --> 00:46:57,918
that's incredibly dangerous.

1069
00:46:57,953 --> 00:47:00,818
[soft piano music]

1070
00:47:14,521 --> 00:47:16,247
While it can't be
completely ruled out,

1071
00:47:16,281 --> 00:47:20,423
that Michael Jackson abused
Safechuck and Robson,

1072
00:47:22,115 --> 00:47:23,633
you just never know.

1073
00:47:23,668 --> 00:47:25,118
I can't sit here and say,

1074
00:47:25,152 --> 00:47:28,293
Michael Jackson's innocent,
this definitely didn't happen.

1075
00:47:28,328 --> 00:47:30,192
But what I can say,

1076
00:47:30,226 --> 00:47:33,574
is that at least
half a dozen things,

1077
00:47:34,472 --> 00:47:35,576
they're inconsistent,

1078
00:47:36,819 --> 00:47:38,510
they're lying in court,

1079
00:47:38,545 --> 00:47:40,340
so if I'm sitting on the jury,

1080
00:47:40,374 --> 00:47:44,102
and I hear that those
two have lied under oath,

1081
00:47:44,137 --> 00:47:46,518
to be able to sue for money,

1082
00:47:46,553 --> 00:47:48,244
and just lying in general,

1083
00:47:48,279 --> 00:47:50,177
and their stories
are not adding up,

1084
00:47:50,212 --> 00:47:53,422
just so they can sue the
Michael Jackson estate.

1085
00:47:53,456 --> 00:47:55,010
I'll think to myself,

1086
00:47:55,044 --> 00:47:56,701
they've lied about that,

1087
00:47:56,735 --> 00:47:57,978
what about the rest?

1088
00:47:58,013 --> 00:48:00,808
Because all of it is testimony.

1089
00:48:00,843 --> 00:48:02,155
There's no physical evidence.

1090
00:48:02,189 --> 00:48:03,432
There's no forensic evidence.

1091
00:48:03,466 --> 00:48:05,813
The only evidence
that they've got,

1092
00:48:05,848 --> 00:48:08,333
is their oral testimony,

1093
00:48:08,368 --> 00:48:11,060
and in that oral testimony
they've lied several times.

1094
00:48:11,095 --> 00:48:12,993
So what about the rest
of the whole testimony?

1095
00:48:13,028 --> 00:48:15,478
Can you convict,
can you be sure,

1096
00:48:15,513 --> 00:48:17,480
that Michael Jackson is guilty,

1097
00:48:17,515 --> 00:48:21,795
when part of that whole
testimony is irrefutably false.

1098
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:25,488
That's what you'd
have to ask yourself,

1099
00:48:25,523 --> 00:48:27,456
if you had to try
Michael Jackson.

1100
00:48:27,490 --> 00:48:28,733
That's what it comes down to.

1101
00:48:28,767 --> 00:48:30,769
Can you be sure that
Robson and Safechuck

1102
00:48:30,804 --> 00:48:32,840
are telling the truth,
about the whole thing?

1103
00:48:32,875 --> 00:48:37,880
You know that 10-20-30%
of it is provably a lie,

1104
00:48:38,743 --> 00:48:41,608
or incredibly inconsistent.

1105
00:48:42,471 --> 00:48:43,472
What about the rest?

1106
00:48:43,506 --> 00:48:44,680
That's the bottom line.

1107
00:48:45,784 --> 00:48:47,510
- I will be acquitted,
and vindicated,

1108
00:48:47,545 --> 00:48:48,960
when the truth is told.

1109
00:48:48,995 --> 00:48:49,857
Thank you.

1110
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:59,453
Prince, that was for you,

1111
00:48:59,488 --> 00:49:01,869
to learn about perseverance,
and confidence,

1112
00:49:01,904 --> 00:49:05,114
and the true meaning of
success with just love,

1113
00:49:05,149 --> 00:49:06,874
and to know that you
can reach any goal

1114
00:49:06,909 --> 00:49:08,014
that your heart desires.

1115
00:49:08,048 --> 00:49:09,222
It's totally up to you,

1116
00:49:09,256 --> 00:49:10,637
you can do anything
you want to be,

1117
00:49:10,671 --> 00:49:11,500
and I love you.

1118
00:49:12,604 --> 00:49:14,986
- He was the most amazing father

1119
00:49:15,021 --> 00:49:16,332
that you could ever witness.

1120
00:49:16,367 --> 00:49:17,609
- Michael's kids adored him,

1121
00:49:17,644 --> 00:49:19,887
they would follow him
like little ducklings

1122
00:49:19,922 --> 00:49:21,751
following their mother duck.

1123
00:49:21,786 --> 00:49:23,477
He was just great,

1124
00:49:23,512 --> 00:49:26,894
but he had boundaries
with his children.

1125
00:49:26,929 --> 00:49:29,173
They had to go to bed
at a certain time.

1126
00:49:30,070 --> 00:49:32,003
They had a tutor,

1127
00:49:33,142 --> 00:49:35,041
they had to have
four hours, minimum,

1128
00:49:35,075 --> 00:49:37,008
every day, of schooling.

1129
00:49:37,043 --> 00:49:41,323
When I took my kids to
see Michael at any time,

1130
00:49:42,772 --> 00:49:45,154
they were always whisked
off to do their schooling,

1131
00:49:45,189 --> 00:49:47,743
and my kids were like,
oh, do we have to do that?

1132
00:49:47,777 --> 00:49:50,263
I said, oh no no, it's
fine, you're on holiday.

1133
00:49:50,297 --> 00:49:52,541
- I think one thing
that really stood out

1134
00:49:52,575 --> 00:49:57,442
was how well-brought-up
the children were.

1135
00:49:57,477 --> 00:49:59,030
These were children
that could probably

1136
00:49:59,065 --> 00:50:01,170
like have anything
that they wanted.

1137
00:50:01,205 --> 00:50:05,174
But they were just so polite

1138
00:50:05,209 --> 00:50:07,038
and respectful to everyone.

1139
00:50:08,729 --> 00:50:10,248
- [Michael] Are
you ready for this?

1140
00:50:10,283 --> 00:50:11,180
Here we go.

1141
00:50:13,079 --> 00:50:14,183
Good move.

1142
00:50:15,460 --> 00:50:16,427
- Daddy?

1143
00:50:16,461 --> 00:50:17,428
- [Michael] Yes?

1144
00:50:17,462 --> 00:50:18,705
- This is a real game.

1145
00:50:18,739 --> 00:50:21,018
- [Michael] Now you
move that, your turn.

1146
00:50:23,330 --> 00:50:26,402
Good move, apple
head, very good.

1147
00:50:26,437 --> 00:50:29,612
- Daddy, we should live
in a castle like this.

1148
00:50:29,647 --> 00:50:31,683
- [Michael] I know,
I love that castle.

1149
00:50:31,718 --> 00:50:33,858
- My kids absolutely
adored Michael.

1150
00:50:33,892 --> 00:50:36,033
I mean I took my two younger
daughters to Neverland,

1151
00:50:36,067 --> 00:50:39,139
and we spent about a week there.

1152
00:50:39,174 --> 00:50:42,039
And they had access
to everything.

1153
00:50:42,073 --> 00:50:44,938
At the end of the week
I was with Michael,

1154
00:50:44,972 --> 00:50:47,078
and I'm prompted,
and I'm talking about

1155
00:50:47,113 --> 00:50:51,324
they would have been about
seven, eight, nine years old,

1156
00:50:51,358 --> 00:50:53,119
and I said to him at
the end of the week,

1157
00:50:53,153 --> 00:50:56,432
I said what was the best thing
that you liked about Neverland?

1158
00:50:56,467 --> 00:50:59,125
And they both turned
around and said,

1159
00:50:59,159 --> 00:51:01,886
the best thing about Neverland,
was being with Michael.

1160
00:51:03,025 --> 00:51:07,340
- Daddy, thank you
for my birthday cake,

1161
00:51:07,374 --> 00:51:09,928
and I love you so much.

1162
00:51:17,039 --> 00:51:18,799
I love my daddy so much.

1163
00:51:22,907 --> 00:51:25,151
You're the best daddy
in the whole world.

1164
00:51:32,848 --> 00:51:35,161
- I think before
"Leaving Neverland,"

1165
00:51:35,195 --> 00:51:37,266
the allegation had
almost been forgotten.

1166
00:51:38,750 --> 00:51:41,028
After Michael died people
were willing to celebrate

1167
00:51:41,063 --> 00:51:43,514
his music again, who he was,

1168
00:51:45,378 --> 00:51:46,793
there's a saying isn't it,

1169
00:51:46,827 --> 00:51:50,279
that you appreciate something
really when it's gone.

1170
00:51:50,314 --> 00:51:51,763
And after Michael died,

1171
00:51:53,317 --> 00:51:55,181
no one was really talking
about that anymore,

1172
00:51:55,215 --> 00:51:56,147
the allegations,

1173
00:51:56,182 --> 00:51:58,494
the plastic surgery.

1174
00:51:58,529 --> 00:51:59,495
It was being spoken about,

1175
00:51:59,530 --> 00:52:01,083
but ultimately it was back

1176
00:52:01,118 --> 00:52:03,120
to Michael Jackson,
the performer.

1177
00:52:03,154 --> 00:52:05,398
That has totally changed now,

1178
00:52:05,432 --> 00:52:07,193
with the movie, "Neverland."

1179
00:52:07,227 --> 00:52:09,678
obviously, you've got the
fans who still adore him

1180
00:52:09,712 --> 00:52:11,128
they're never gonna
turn their back on him.

1181
00:52:11,162 --> 00:52:13,854
You've got many people,
normal members of the public,

1182
00:52:13,889 --> 00:52:16,581
who still don't believe
the allegations.

1183
00:52:16,616 --> 00:52:17,893
But you've also got these people

1184
00:52:17,927 --> 00:52:19,412
who are sort of in the middle,

1185
00:52:20,620 --> 00:52:23,519
who have now gone
to the other side.

1186
00:52:23,554 --> 00:52:25,935
They're not listening
to him anymore.

1187
00:52:25,970 --> 00:52:27,144
Or they say they're not.

1188
00:52:28,524 --> 00:52:31,044
So it has had an effect
on his legacy, for sure.

1189
00:52:31,078 --> 00:52:35,290
I think again, because of how

1190
00:52:35,324 --> 00:52:36,532
the allegations made on him

1191
00:52:36,567 --> 00:52:38,224
have backfired slightly now.

1192
00:52:38,258 --> 00:52:40,467
People are starting
to challenge them now.

1193
00:52:40,502 --> 00:52:42,020
So I think slowly but surely,

1194
00:52:42,055 --> 00:52:44,678
we will cover the situation
where we'll cover,

1195
00:52:44,713 --> 00:52:47,198
but I think it's a testament
to Michael Jackson,

1196
00:52:47,233 --> 00:52:50,960
that he can be accused of
these horrendous crimes,

1197
00:52:50,995 --> 00:52:53,687
on three occasions,
and yet we're still

1198
00:52:53,722 --> 00:52:56,897
talking about him
in musical terms.

1199
00:52:56,932 --> 00:52:59,141
[crowd cheering]

1200
00:52:59,176 --> 00:53:00,970
- This is it, I mean,
this is really it.

1201
00:53:01,005 --> 00:53:02,282
This is the final,

1202
00:53:02,317 --> 00:53:04,767
this is the final curtain call.

1203
00:53:07,770 --> 00:53:11,222
- I just remember Michael as
just being a very generous,

1204
00:53:11,257 --> 00:53:16,227
very kind, he'd always listen
to what you were saying.

1205
00:53:17,124 --> 00:53:18,747
It wasn't always about him,

1206
00:53:18,781 --> 00:53:20,369
or what he was doing,

1207
00:53:20,404 --> 00:53:21,681
in fact, very little,

1208
00:53:22,647 --> 00:53:26,064
he'd listen an awful lot,

1209
00:53:26,099 --> 00:53:28,205
and he used to listen
to my children.

1210
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,311
He used to ask them how
they were doing at school,

1211
00:53:31,346 --> 00:53:33,796
what their favorite
subjects were,

1212
00:53:33,831 --> 00:53:35,902
what they wanted to
do when they grew up,

1213
00:53:35,936 --> 00:53:38,767
and he took a lot of time

1214
00:53:38,801 --> 00:53:42,011
finding out about
what other people,

1215
00:53:42,046 --> 00:53:43,461
and what their interests were.

1216
00:53:43,496 --> 00:53:45,463
He was a very, very good father,

1217
00:53:45,498 --> 00:53:47,672
to the point where
it used to annoy me,

1218
00:53:47,707 --> 00:53:49,502
the fact that how
good a father he was,

1219
00:53:49,536 --> 00:53:52,470
'cause it used to make me
look not such a good dad.

1220
00:53:56,957 --> 00:53:59,028
Just a free spirit really.

1221
00:53:59,063 --> 00:54:02,480
He was a free bird.

1222
00:54:05,034 --> 00:54:06,553
I miss Michael a lot,

1223
00:54:06,588 --> 00:54:11,420
I miss him a lot and
my kids miss him.

1224
00:54:11,455 --> 00:54:14,354
They miss his kids,

1225
00:54:14,389 --> 00:54:17,184
and it's just such a shame

1226
00:54:17,219 --> 00:54:19,808
that the man isn't
around with us.

1227
00:54:19,842 --> 00:54:22,673
- I mean just how caring

1228
00:54:22,707 --> 00:54:24,261
and how loving he was,

1229
00:54:24,295 --> 00:54:26,193
he had so much love to give.

1230
00:54:26,228 --> 00:54:30,957
And I would give anything if
he was to be still around,

1231
00:54:30,991 --> 00:54:34,478
but in a way,
because of his name

1232
00:54:34,512 --> 00:54:37,308
being drug through the
mud, as sad as it sounds,

1233
00:54:37,343 --> 00:54:39,586
I'm kind of glad he's
not here to see this,

1234
00:54:39,621 --> 00:54:42,796
because he would be
heartbroken, he really would.

1235
00:54:42,831 --> 00:54:47,249
When it all first came out,
he was obviously devastated.

1236
00:54:47,284 --> 00:54:49,700
He just couldn't
comprehend how people

1237
00:54:49,734 --> 00:54:50,977
could think that about him.

1238
00:54:51,011 --> 00:54:53,324
To be honest, he
couldn't comprehend how

1239
00:54:53,359 --> 00:54:56,051
anyone could even do that
to a child, let alone him.

1240
00:54:56,085 --> 00:54:57,915
So then, for those accusations

1241
00:54:57,949 --> 00:55:01,367
to be made towards him,

1242
00:55:01,401 --> 00:55:02,885
he was heartbroken.

1243
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,545
I don't think he was
really the same, after.

1244
00:55:07,580 --> 00:55:09,858
I think he was just like,

1245
00:55:09,892 --> 00:55:13,517
he was just a broken man
really, to be honest.

1246
00:55:13,551 --> 00:55:16,002
- He was an
intelligent, smart guy,

1247
00:55:16,036 --> 00:55:19,074
not some comic figure that
people seem to think he is.

1248
00:55:20,006 --> 00:55:21,904
He was an intelligent man.

1249
00:55:21,939 --> 00:55:24,493
And intelligence is not shown,

1250
00:55:24,528 --> 00:55:26,944
and I think that may
be his biggest mistake.

1251
00:55:26,978 --> 00:55:28,877
Had he shown the
businessman Michael Jackson,

1252
00:55:28,911 --> 00:55:31,845
which he did a little bit with
the Beatles catalog decision,

1253
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,331
and a few other
wise moves he made,

1254
00:55:34,365 --> 00:55:36,298
then they would
understand him more.

1255
00:55:36,333 --> 00:55:39,059
But yeah, he's misunderstood,

1256
00:55:39,094 --> 00:55:41,786
and it's a shame that
we're not celebrating

1257
00:55:41,821 --> 00:55:43,236
his music and dance now,

1258
00:55:43,270 --> 00:55:45,963
on his 10th year
anniversary of his passing,

1259
00:55:45,997 --> 00:55:49,794
and having to deal with
stuff that's been done with,

1260
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:52,556
but he never really
recovered from that.

1261
00:55:52,590 --> 00:55:53,522
It broke his heart.

1262
00:55:57,423 --> 00:55:58,665
[Michael singing]

1263
00:55:58,700 --> 00:56:00,874
♪ Counting your blessings

1264
00:56:00,909 --> 00:56:03,808
♪ Biding your time

1265
00:56:03,843 --> 00:56:06,949
♪ Then you lay me
down sleeping ♪

1266
00:56:06,984 --> 00:56:09,262
♪ My heart is bleeding

1267
00:56:09,296 --> 00:56:11,402
♪ You go down sleeping

1268
00:56:11,437 --> 00:56:15,613
♪ And pray for all

1269
00:56:15,648 --> 00:56:18,961
♪ Do the work for all

1270
00:56:18,996 --> 00:56:21,170
[muffled]

1271
00:56:28,902 --> 00:56:29,938
- Where's you guys' rhythm?

1272
00:56:29,972 --> 00:56:32,527
[man laughing]

1273
00:56:33,493 --> 00:56:35,944
♪ You're changing well

1274
00:56:35,978 --> 00:56:39,257
♪ And wishing them all

1275
00:56:40,431 --> 00:56:42,399
- We know what Peter
Pan represents,

1276
00:56:42,433 --> 00:56:43,848
never growing up,

1277
00:56:43,883 --> 00:56:45,609
staying childlike forever.

1278
00:56:45,643 --> 00:56:48,784
Michael, in adulthood,
sees himself as Peter Pan,

1279
00:56:48,819 --> 00:56:51,477
and remaining childlike forever.

1280
00:56:51,511 --> 00:56:53,479
Michael never wanted to grow up.

1281
00:56:53,513 --> 00:56:55,342
Whenever anyone
mentioned it to him,

1282
00:56:55,377 --> 00:56:58,173
he would just cry, because he

1283
00:56:58,207 --> 00:56:59,243
really believed that,

1284
00:56:59,277 --> 00:57:00,969
and he deeply believed that.

1285
00:57:03,005 --> 00:57:05,663
In the Bashir interview
as well, he says,

1286
00:57:07,078 --> 00:57:08,770
because she asks him the
question you're asking me now,

1287
00:57:08,804 --> 00:57:11,807
about Peter Pan, and he
says, "I am Peter Pan."

1288
00:57:11,842 --> 00:57:15,293
Bashir says, "No you're not,
you're Michael Jackson."

1289
00:57:15,328 --> 00:57:18,435
And Michael Jackson says,
"I'm Peter Pan in my heart."

1290
00:57:20,644 --> 00:57:25,649
♪ Have you seen my childhood

1291
00:57:26,891 --> 00:57:30,826
♪ I'm searching for the
world that I come from ♪

1292
00:57:32,069 --> 00:57:35,728
♪ 'Cause I've been
looking around ♪

1293
00:57:35,762 --> 00:57:40,353
♪ In the lost and
found of my heart ♪

1294
00:57:40,387 --> 00:57:41,941
- When Michael talks about
the song, "Childhood,"

1295
00:57:41,975 --> 00:57:43,390
from the "History" album,

1296
00:57:43,425 --> 00:57:47,429
he says, "Our personal
history begins in childhood,

1297
00:57:47,464 --> 00:57:50,467
"and the song 'Childhood'
is a reflection of my life.

1298
00:57:50,501 --> 00:57:53,124
"It's about the pain,
some of the joys,

1299
00:57:53,159 --> 00:57:54,505
"some of the dreaming,

1300
00:57:54,540 --> 00:57:56,749
"some of the mental
adventures that I took,

1301
00:57:56,783 --> 00:57:58,751
"because of the different
lifestyle that I had,

1302
00:57:58,785 --> 00:58:00,511
"in being a child performer.

1303
00:58:00,546 --> 00:58:01,995
"I was born onstage,

1304
00:58:02,030 --> 00:58:05,136
"and 'Childhood,' it's my
mirror, it's my story."

1305
00:58:06,517 --> 00:58:11,488
♪ Before you judge me

1306
00:58:12,281 --> 00:58:16,803
♪ Try hard to love me

1307
00:58:17,563 --> 00:58:22,360
♪ The painful youth

1308
00:58:22,982 --> 00:58:24,742
♪ I've had

1309
00:58:34,062 --> 00:58:37,824
♪ Have you seen my Childhood

1310
00:58:50,457 --> 00:58:54,289
[dramatic instrumental music]