Kirbin24 vs. mikhailnikolaievitch

Breakdown of Kirbin24 vs. mikhailnikolaievitch
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To promote transparency in my judgement I will be keeping track of what I think helps/hurts the arguments of the people I am judging.  If something benefits an argument a plus, like this: (+) will be next to it, if it hurts, a (-) minus.
Additionally, at the end of each response I will keep track of the arguments I buy into.
***
Kirb R1:

1) Vs. Durabelle

a. Durabelle relies on weapons

 a1. She goes from 3 -> 1 TJ striking without weapons

 a2. Weapon's don't gain esoteric boost and Enel can burn them

 a3. Chi Long can light an entire city on fire, destroying all of Durabelle's options

b. Kirb's team has an advantage from the starting position

 b1. Kirbin's team has ranged, DB doesn't

 b2. She lacks the tier setters speed boost

 b3. DB can't search for a weapon, and Paragon attack with Paragon maintain his powers

 b4. Her running away makes it more likely Chi Long burns the city down

 b5. Chi Long has superior reach with his hammer/size

c. Coco can hurt DB

 c1. Uses math to scale her poison resistance and compares it to mass of the monsters coco has hurt

 c2. Coco wears her down with poison over time

2) Vs. Paragon

a. Paragon can't copy Coco/Enel as they will be out of range

b. Chi Long oneshots

 b1. Per Mik in tribunals, if Paragon is hit back he can be taken out once out of range

 b2. Chi Long has longer reach

 b3. Chi Long hits hard enough to send him far enough/hard enough back

c. Paragon can't copy Chi Long as he's a crystal soul golem

3) Vs. Super Skrull

a. Coco/Enel one shot

 a1. Skrull has a number of poor showings against electricity, and Enel has strong electricity

 a2. He has no poison resistance, and Coco's poison instantly kills things

b. He can't evade the attacks

 b1. Enels lightning strikes are massively faster than himself

 b2. Enel can hear people from across an entire country

 b3. Coco's attacks are lightspeed

 b4. Coco has enhanced vision

4) Team Dynamic

 a. SS likely to die from the get go due to Enel or Coco

 b. Enel/Chi Long can deny DB/Paragon weapons

  b1. Sans weapons they can't match Chi Long

  b2. Scales Chi Long's dura to Ah Gou and back to Chi Long's offensive

Takeaways:

* DB is slower than tourney DB

* Chi Long has comparable physicals to DB

* Paragon can't copy Enel

* SS gets one shot by Enel/Coco

Notes:

* Very clean format/concise argument

***
Mik R1:

1) Initiative

a. Mik's team immediately becomes invisible + makes invisible forcefields via SS/Paragon

 a1. Prevents ranged attacks

 a2. SS can manipulate light to make himself invisible, which means Coco can't see him

b. SS/Paragon can stretch for miles

 b1. Can attack from very far away

2) Offense

a. Durabelle

 a1. DB can hit with a minimum of 1 TJ, which one shots everyone

 a2. DB will get a weapon as the battlefield is full of them

 a3. Attacking her weapons is OOC for Kirb's team

 a4. Chi Long's city fire attack kills the rest of his team

b. Super Duper Skrull

 b1. SS can melt metal

 b2. Chi Long is only resistant to his own heat attacks

 b3. Coco/Enel/Chi have no heat resistant feats close to SS' output

 b4. He can absorb energy, such as Enel's lightning or Chi Long's flames

	Note: It says infinite heat, not energy

 b5. He can make concrete piercing spears, which can tag speedsters/are invisible so can't be dodged

	Note: I'm not seeing spears that pierce concrete

 b6. More cutting arguments

 b7. All of Kirbin's team has either no or insufficient piercing feats to not be cut

 b8. He has internal attacks, and all of Kirbin's has internal to exploit

c. Paragon

 c1. Paragon can copy inorganics, references Galactic Golem

 c2. Chi Long is organic as he uses blood

 c3. Enel will fight in CQC based on tribunals

3) Defense

a. Reiterates a lot of stuff/acknowledges Kirbin's concession that Enel's lightning can't hurt DB

b. Dismisses Coco poison argument as nonsensical

 b1. Paragon can copy his resistance/that of his team mates making him immune to their powers

4) Rebuttals

a. Kirbin's team won't run away

 a1. Its OOC, his team fights in CQC

 a2. DB mogs Chi Long in CQC/any other team member

b. Chi Long would have to fight both Paragon and DB at once, as argued

 b1. Paragon will be more skilled

 b2. He can't achieve this

c. Electric Boogaloo

 c1. Thor can destroy half a mile of metal, ergo being hurt by his lightning isn't an antifeat

 c2. Clarified electric trap

 c3. Provided an example of him resisting "countless" volts

d. Invisibility

 d1. Kirbin doesn't address how Enel hits an invisible target

	Note: He did with mantra

 d2. SS' shield activates automatically fast enough to block lightning, via sue scan (protects the whole team)

e. Team Fighting

 e1. Reiterates a lot of stuff from earlier

f. Reiterates that Chi Long is weak and nothing compared to DB

Takeaways:

* DB can likely one shot most of Kirbin's team

* Skrull has options to one shot his opponents

* Doubtful on Coco/Enel's behavior



Failure to Counter:

* Coco's poison argument

* Enel's super hearing letting him find them

* Partially for SS gets one shot

Notes:

* n/a

***
Kirb R2:

1) Skrull

a. Light = visible light, =/= the UV/IR Coco can see

	Note: This sure is an uh argument

b. Super Skrull can't use his shield and attack at the same time

c. Weaving through projectiles is irrelevant, as Enel/Coco's attacks are either too fast or too large of range

 c1. Stretching makes him an easier target

d. Heat Arguments

 d1. Absorbing heat =/= absorbing lightning (he's never done it)

 d2. Infinite heat is flowery language, and the heat feat isn't impressive/hurt him

e. Electricity

 e1. Thor feat is from years later

 e2. Points out issue with scaling to a comic so far off, as it would make SS OOT

 e3. Countless volts is meaningless

 e4. The rail feat per Spider-man is explicetly a zap and he was only weakened by >50%

 e5. SS is weak to electricity (provides various instances of evidence)

2) Durabelle

a. DB's striking is fake

 a1. Breaks down how the nuke map feat was overhyped

 a2. 1 TJ/3TJ are max hits, not minimum

 a3. Destroying her weapons is an aftereffect of coco/enel's attacks

3) Paragon

a. He can't copy Chi Long

 a1. Chi Long is made of crystal, and feeds on blood =/= organic

 a2. For Paragon to copy the Golem he needed direct contact for an extended time period

 a3. Paragon's physicals don't stack (Daxamite fight)

 a4. Paragon can't replicate weapons

4) CQC

a. Coco/Enel CQC IC arguments missing context

 a1. Coco was fighting a robot, whose immune to poison, breaks down how Coco rarely uses CQC

 a2. Enel fought Luffy in CQ only because he knew electricity wouldn't work, after attacking from a distance multiple times

5) Hitting his team

a. Enel can amp his speed by a huge amount

 a1. He can predict opponents moves

b. Coco can also predict the future

 b1. Coco can be illusions

 b2. Stabbing coco is an instant lose as the poison kills him

6) Coco

a. Clarifies whittling down argument/Invite Death's characteristics

b. Coco's fortune telling lets him predict all his foes moves and communicate those predictions to his allies

7) Chi Long

a. Reiterates Chi Long scaling for dura

b. SS can't cut him, due to Tian scaling

 b1. Tanked Heaven Punisher which destroyed a dimension with its heat

c. Chi Long is Strong

 c1. Sans his hammer he breaks off a chunk of a crystal mountain

 c2. Reiterates hammer argument + that hammer > base striking

 c3. Reiterates fire AoE argument (wont hurt his team due to their speed)

8) Initiative

a. DB needs a weapon

 a1. Sans that hit, its worst than Chi Long's hit

 a2. She loses her weapon if she's hit by one of Kirbin's attacks, uses the weapon, his team removes all weapons, and she prefers less conventional weapons per WoG

b. Super Skrull

 b1. Anything he does leaves him vulnerable

 b2. Internal attacks require close quarter contact which is death in regards to Coco

 b3. He cannot shield on reaction

 b4. He can't aim/hit his foes

c. Paragon

 c1. Ditto as DB

 c2. Reiterates past arguments

Takeaways:

* SS can't absorb Chi Long's heat

* Chi Long strikes with comparable force to DB

* Coco/Enel will likely destroy DB/Paragon's weapons

* Enel will be a bitch to hit

Failure to Counter:

* Only partially DB one shots

* Skrull can one shot some of his team

* Skrull/sue instinctive shield argument

Notes:

* n/a

***
Mik R2:

1) Super Skrull

a. Invisibility

 a1. Light applies to UV/IR, and Sue can control UV/IR

 a2. Coco can't see invisible opponents

b. Shield/multitasking

 b1. Provides multiple instances of SS using force field/other powers at the same time

 b2. Forcefield nullifies opponents offensive

c. Elasticity

 c1. Minimizes his opponents accuracy

 c2. Paragon has superior reach/can get weapons without leaving the fight

d. Heat

 d1. Dismisses "it misses" argument

 d2. He can make invisible flames, which can't be dodged

 d3. Chi Long's dimension burning resistance is ???

 d4. Effective at long range

e. Energy Absorption

 e1. Heat was near infinite/comparable to the sun

 e2. Spaceship is huge AF

f. Electricity

 f1. Enel won't hit SS, or his shield blocks it

 f2. Thor hit an outlier for KE

 f3. Clarified part of countless volts arguments

 f4. Bodied power interference argument

2) Durabelle

a. DB's Strength

 a1. Nukemap was official tier setting source

 a2. Minimum of 1 TJ striking

 a3. Psuedo OOT

 a4. DB's hits are better than a nuke (due to concentration)

b. Vs. Chi Long

 b1. Damage isn't pure KE

 b2. ~150 m radius for heavy damage to buildings

 b3. Chi Long does less damage to shittier buildings

c. Weapons

 c1. Argued 1 TJ minimum striking

 c2. DB can apply her esoteric durability to her weapons

 c3. She'd use any weapons

3) Paragon

a. Chi Long can be copied

 a1. Has life force

 a2. Paragon copied WW who is made of clay

 a3. Argued that in the Galactic Golem feat Paragon didn't need to touch him to copy his power, just to become a bridge

b. Out of Range

 b1. Chi has to fight Paragon and DB

 b2. Hitting Paragon out of range leaves him open

4) Kirbin's Team

a. Precog

 a1. Manta doesn't 100% ensure that Enel isn't hit

 a2. Coco's precog also isn't perfectly reliable

b. Poison

 b1. Unestablished time frame

 b2. Durability step argument

c. Chi Long

 c1. Reiterates a lot of arguments

 c2. Paragon can use SS' piercing attack better

 c3. SS can redirect electricity from Enel to Chi Long

Takeaways:

* SS can absorb any heat attack his opponents have

* Electricity doesn't interfere with SS' powers


Failure to Counter:

* Enel's meme hearing

* That SS can absorb lightning

* SS electricity resistance


Notes:

* n/a

***
Kirb R3:

1) Enel

a. Can't Touch This

 a1. Mantra lets him predict and dodge foes, even hidden ones

 a2. Only taggable in close range (over 1 second to reach him)

 a3. Only tagged due to bounce shot

b. Electricity Schectricity

 b1. Gets shocked by a random machine + reiterates arguments

 b2. Reiterates stun trap argument

 b3. Skrull has no good electricity resistance feats

2) Chi Long

a. Attack Prowess

 a1. Attack is explicetly KE

 a2. Immediate crater > other damage

 a3. Chi Long > Durabelle in terms of striking

b. Heat

 b1. Reiterates/clarified Heaven punisher heat scaling

 b2. Fire of Nine Heavens hasn't been countered

c. Vs. Durabelle

 c1. Reiterates some past arguments

 c2. Points out disparity between Mik's portrayal of the hit as a punch vs. bomb

2) Coco

a. Pre-Cog

 a1. Coco predicts how a fight will end and uses it to alter the outcome

b. Per Sue IR can track her

c. Poison

 c1. Durability steps has no bearing on poison resistance

3) Durabelle

a. Mik's DB =/= Tier Setter DB

 a1. Verlux's statements have no bearing on the actual character DB

 a2. DB can't amp esoteric dura to her weapons

 a3. Mik has failed to qualify DB's striking

 a4. Her ideal weapon is a large, blunt instrument

 a5. DB has a good alignment

 a6. All her skill is oriented towards unarmed combat

4) Paragon

a. Copying

 a1. Wonder Woman is organic as she bleeds, bruises, etc

 a2. Chi Long is made of crystal

 a3. Clarified Galactic Golem argument

5) Super Skrull

a. Defending

 a1. In majority of scans presented Skrull isn't adequately defended

 a2. In the multi tasking scans, he only adequately defends once

 a3. Any opening in his shield will let attacks through

b. Offense

 b1. Skrull can't hit Kirb's team as his attacks are slow

 b2. Dies if he attacks Coco

 b3. Mik is portraying him as some form of hyper competent war machine

7) Team Dynamics

a. Basically all a rehash

Takeaways:

* Enel is hard AF to take down

* Skull likely can't multi task while defending as needed

Failure to Counter:

* n/a

Notes:

* n/a

***
Mik R3:

1) Chi Long, more like So Long

a. Outnumbered

 a1. Coco/Enel no help in a close quarter fight

 a2. Chi Long won't dodge

b. Chi Long's one feat sucks

 b1. Hammer strike has a fire component

 b2. Feat isn't even in Chi Long's strength section

 b3. Requires wind up

c. The rest of Chi Long's feats are bad

 c1. Most his feats are busting through pre-modern buildings

 c2. Wrecking ball analogy(?)

 c3. He can't hurt DB/Paragon

2) Durabelle

a. Striking

 a1. Argues in favor of nukemap validity

 a2. DB's strikes > nuke maps model

 a3. 500 tons of tnt > Chi Long's hits

b. Chi Long gets hit by his allies esoterics

c. Heat stuff

 c1. Chi is only resistant to his own feat

 c2. Dimension feat is nonsensical

 c3. Heaven Punisher feat requires charging, so Chi Long doesn't scale to it

3) Coco/Enel

a. Neither can take out DB

b. They can accidentally take out Chi Long

c. They won't know to stay out Paragon's range

d. Coco has no speed amp that lets him stay out of range

e. Invisibility

 e1. Reiterates a lot of arguments

f. Precog

 f1. Enel's mantra only lets him see the next moment

 f2. He can still be tagged

 f3. Coco's precog ins't perfect

4) In Character

a. Won't go as Kirbin described

 a1. OOC for them to destroy all the weapons from the get go

 a2. Coco can't escape the arena before Chi Long lights it on fire

 a3. Enel/Coco ranged argument relies on a set of narrow circumstances


b. Kirbin provides 0 evidence of his teams behavior

 b1. Coco will avoid killing

c. Durabelle

 c1. She is very determined to win/competitive

 c2. DB won't be participating in Kirbin's easter egg hunt, because Verlux rigged it and its too easy to find eggs

 c3. She has skillz

d. Super-Skrull

 d1. Clarified many of the scans Kirbin used for SS' behavior (either not in danger, multi tasked or was using shields)

 d2. Electricity doesn't interfere with SS' power

 d3. Paragon can imbue weapons with SS' heat absorption

Takeaways:

* Chi Long might not hit with full force every blow

Failure to Counter:

* Most of the nukemap argument

* Coco/Enel's precog

* Kirbin's "sue can be seen by IR arguments"

Notes:

* n/a