"Strongly Typed"

<password2> functional code should do somethign
<password2> i dont know why i bothered talking on here
<panji> You mustn't be so negative! :D
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<password2> well I am
<password2> deal with it
<pulse> i'm coding something in C++
<panji> bang your head against the wall then :P The article pulse posted is great for dealing with your problem - but it takes work and persistance to edit that amount of code
<pulse> feels quite weird after years of JS
<pulse> C++ is so much saner
<velco> heh
<pulse> it's also quite ludicrous and technical etc. but it feels much more, err, stable
<merijn> pulse: Which honestly says more about JS than C++ >.>
<password2> yeah
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<password2> well strongly typed is usefull
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<pulse> i can imagine the shock of someone who only knows JS though
<pulse> and then starts doing C++
<password2> it removes a bunch of ambiguity
<password2> i started with c++
<pulse> i started with VB3 >_x
<merijn> C++ is ok in that I can express what I want in it. But dear jesus does it require insane hacks
<pulse> yeah, the other thing is that it requires way more coding
<pulse> but that's a given
<oxffff> VB for life
<password2> but thats counteracted by better IDEs
<pulse> oxffff, \m/
<merijn> password2: Not really
<merijn> password2: None of the stuff I was referring to is helped by IDEs
<password2> header files are very nice
<pulse> i still find templates confusing as fuck
<password2> more coding
<pulse> i was looking at some template code i wrote years ago
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<pulse> i feel i was smarter in the past lol
<merijn> pulse: You should see the template horrors I've written :)
<password2> yeah , if you have a proper ide then it would autocomplete a shit laod
<pulse> merijn, ugh :p
<oxffff> Anyone still use NetBeans?
<pulse> oxffff, i don't
<pulse> i avoid java
<panji> Our school wants us to
<pulse> netbeans is not that bad though, aside from being sow
<pulse> slow*
<merijn> password2: My problem is not autocompletion, my problem is having to write template horrors to make C++ do what I want :)
<Yithar> I've been using JS lately and I prefer OCaml much more even though they're both functional, because OCaml is strongly typed; I personally dislike languages with weak typing
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<password2> I think i never needed to write a template
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<password2> I have once written one
<pulse> templates are powerful as hell
<merijn> There's no such thing as weak typing >.<
<pulse> but they're also super confusing
<password2> their powerful shure
<password2> but eh
<merijn> JS is a unit typed language >.>
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<velco> of course there is such thing as weak typing
<pulse> merijn, weak == loosely typed
<velco> x = 1; x++; x = "1"; x++
<merijn> pulse: That's also not a technical term and doesn't mean a thing
<velco> in JS
<merijn> pulse: It's basically a term people use to refer to a vaguely defined set of behaviours with no real specification
<pulse> merijn, it doesn't matter if it's a technical term, what matters is that it gets a point across
<velco> or maybe I mean "x += 1"
<oxffff> Who here took programming language in college and ended up getting  good score but don't recall how
<merijn> It's like people calling python "strongly typed", first of strongly typed doesn't even have a meaning and second it has runtime tagging, not types
<mrkat> what's the difference?
<velco> of cousre is has a meaning: it mean no (or relatively less) implicit type conversions
<mrkat> between "tagging"and types
<merijn> mrkat: Types are static properties of programming language text. Runtime tags are dynamic properties
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<velco> tags are are at most an implementation detail
<pulse> merijn, which makes python is dynamically typed...
<mrkat> you mean in python, variables don't have types; objects have types
<mrkat> ?
<pulse> -is
<merijn> mrkat: Types define static behaviour, things that must be true over ALL possible execution paths.
<merijn> pulse: Python is unit typed. i.e. it has a single unique type and every expression has that type
* pulse scratches head
<velco> that's not true; a type is a set of values and operations on them
<velco> execution paths are completely irrelevant to types
<pulse> i'm pretty sure i was in college once and they told me python is dynamically typed
<merijn> velco: Types can be sets of values, operations are irrelevant
<pulse> either they were lying or you are :D
<pulse> which is it
<password2> stop trying to be correct , its a pointless egotistic excercise
<merijn> velco: Not all type are sets of values
<velco> merijn: they definitely are; perhaps an empty set
<merijn> velco: Consider, parametric (i.e., generic) types
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<merijn> velco: Such as "Maybe" in Haskell or "List" in Java. Those require another type argument to be treated as type that are sets of values
<velco> does not change anything the concrete notation you use to denote a set of values
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<merijn> password2: I don't try to be correct. Type theory is my favourite field and the consistent terminology abuse committed by programmers helps no one when people end up trying to have a serious conversation about type systems
<Yithar> hmm well this has made me look up my notes lol
<Yithar> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1xLFrAl-fBVX3BEX3N5RFVNOFE/view?usp=sharing
<oxffff> Folks, shall we have a fight about vim vs emacs vs nano
<password2> consistent , unlike some data types
<password2> and being a smarty pants helps even less
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<rindolf> oxffff: what about Sublime Text? Kate? Gedit? JOE?
<merijn> Yithar: Well, since you're notes are quoting Pierce your class was probably pretty decent
<pulse> oxffff, vs code for me
<liste> oxffff: ed is the standard editor
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<password2> terminology abuse is a nice way to bitch about the wording people use and not what they are saying
<oxffff> Well, they are all Gui environment
<oxffff> Which are different from vim emacs and nano
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<pulse> but i use gvim
* liste is using Vim in a GUI environ,ment
<liste> aka gvim
<oxffff> Ed sounds bad luck for the doods
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<oxffff> I try to forget its existence
<ibouvousaime> rindolf:  dang that sucks :(
<pulse> notepad.exe is the most zen of all editors
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<oxffff> Lol pulse trolls like a boss
<pulse> :]
<liste> wow, wine includes notepad
<pulse> i learned from the best
<liste> I know what I'll be using from now on
<liste> though it's not the real notepad.exe :( wrong icon too
<oxffff> Anybody votes for WordPad
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<rindolf> Yithar: see http://perl.plover.com/yak/12views/samples/notes.html#sl-41 regarding 'strongly typed' vs. 'weakly typed'
<Yithar> rindolf: hmm I see
<pulse> rindolf, relativity? :P
<pulse> "this apple is big"
<pulse> you don't know how big this apple is either
<pulse> unless i tell you i have a pear here that's 1/4 of the apple's size
<rindolf> pulse: what?
<oxffff> Lol
<pulse> rindolf, i'm responding directly to the article you just posted
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<rindolf> pulse: I provided an anchor.
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<pulse> strong and weak typing are relative
<oxffff> A big apple is a big apple
<pulse> just like big and small are relative
<pulse> just like wide and short are relative
<merijn> rindolf: That definition looks right to me :)
<rindolf> merijn: which definition?
<oxffff>  big apple is smaller than small watermelon for sure
<password2> your mom is absolute though
<merijn> rindolf: "My conclusion is that 'strongly typed language' doesn't mean anything at all, and that if you hear someone say that some language is strongly typed, or some other language is weakly typed, you should assume that you don't know what they meant."
<pulse> from wikipedia: "In computer programming, programming languages are often colloquially classified as strongly typed or weakly typed (loosely typed). These terms do not have a precise definition"
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<pulse> same way the term "big" doesn't have a precise definition
<pulse> doesn't mean we should stop saying big
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<password2> love does not have a precise description either
<merijn> It should when you're busy discussing specific sizes of something
<velco> yeah, if you disagree, assume th eopponent does not know anything, suuuure .....
<password2> but we can use it in sentences non the less
<oxffff> And yet we all feel loved. Life is truly magical
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<rindolf> merijn: ah.
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