Soaked in Bleach

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He's reaching
out, really, for the downtrodden

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Of society, for the average
Joe on the street who wants

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To look up to his lyrics
and his music and say,

4
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"Hey, this man's
talking my language."

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You guys don't
like explaining anything

6
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To do with your music...

7
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There's
nothing to be said,

8
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It's all in the music, man.

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It's all in the music.

10
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If there was
a John Lennon-type figure

11
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For the so-called "Generation
X," it would be Cobain.

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The body of
Nirvana leader Kurt Cobain

13
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Was found in a house in
Seattle on Friday morning,

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Dead of an apparently
self-inflicted shotgun blast

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To the head.

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An electrician
hired to work on Cobain's home

17
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Walked up to this room
above Cobain's garage

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And made the shocking
discovery this morning.

19
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A
suicide note was found.

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This
is a puzzling case,

21
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A very disturbing case.

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It first got
reported that Kurt was missing

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And Courtney Love hired
private investigator Tom Grant.

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I had
been involved in

25
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Missing persons cases before.

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Some red flags started
popping up immediately,

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So I began recording every
conversation I had with Courtney

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During the entire period
that I worked for her.

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My
name is

30
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It could be
made to look like a suicide.

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People that
I had do this, I paid.

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I've walked
into cases that looked

33
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Like they were suicides that
turned out to be homicides.

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Cobain's
wife, singer Courtney Love,

35
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Was in England on tour
with her band Hole

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When the body was discovered.

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As it is,
she has inherited an estate

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Worth tens of
millions of dollars.

39
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That's motive.

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Did Courtney
Love kill Kurt Cobain?

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Did she have a hand in
any kind of conspiracy?

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These are favorite
topics of fanatics.

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There's nothing
in the medical examiner's

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Report or coroner's reports
that could not have easily

45
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Have been duplicated
by a murderer.

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It's entirely
possible that a police officer,

47
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No matter how well-trained,
may not see or notice

48
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A particular item of evidence.

49
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Kurt
Cobain was not barricaded

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Inside the room.

51
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He did not leave his
driver's license out.

52
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No one would believe
that was a suicide note.

53
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Kurt Cobain was injected
with three times

54
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The lethal dose of heroin.

55
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The media was
getting this wrong.

56
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Are you sure
he's not in there?

57
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I knocked for at
least five minutes.

58
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If he's there he
would have answered.

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Alright, I just
don't wanna end up

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On the wrong end of a shotgun.

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Let's go.

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Careful.

63
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Kurt?

64
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Kurt!

65
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If we find
it we're gonna have

66
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To take it, right?

67
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Yeah.

68
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Which I can legally
do since I bought it.

69
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It's in my name, so...

70
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Not here, could
it be under the bed?

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Might be.

72
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No. Alright,
let's move this.

73
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Alright, what is this?

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This mean anything to ya?

75
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Rohypnol,
that's where they are.

76
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What?

77
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He kept saying
someone stole 'em,

78
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But they've been sitting there.

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These are what he
OD'ed on in Rome.

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Well she didn't
want us to take those.

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Yeah.

82
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Uh, wait a minute.

83
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Would she be okay
if you keep 'em?

84
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Yeah.

85
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Are they legal here?

86
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Yeah, they're
completely legal, they're like...

87
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What are they used for?

88
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They're
sold as a sedative for

89
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Sleeping ailments, and sometimes
they're given to people...

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And if we get
pulled over, you're not

91
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Gonna get arrested
for havin' those?

92
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No, they're fine.

93
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Well it's obviously
not here, the shotgun.

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No, and I dunno
where it would be.

95
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Is there anywhere else?

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No.

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Okay.

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My name is Tom Grant.

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I was hired by Courtney
Love to find her missing

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Husband, Kurt Cobain,
in April of 1994.

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My father was a schoolteacher,

102
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And this is a man I
never caught one time

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In my entire life telling a lie.

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He was the best role
model anybody can ask for.

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By the time I became a
junior in high school,

106
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I definitely wanted to
be a police officer.

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Graduating from the L.A.
County Sheriff's Department

108
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Was a very proud day for
me and for my family.

109
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My first assignment
was a patrol division

110
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At West Hollywood
Sheriff Station.

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When I quit the department,
I quit in very high standing.

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From there I moved
on, took the test

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And obtained my own private
investigator's license.

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I believe what makes me a good
P.I. is that I always apply

115
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Logic and common sense
to everything that I do.

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I've seen a lot of
suicides, a lot of murders,

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And I don't try to
pre-determine anything.

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And if I feel that my
client, that's coming to me

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For help, is in the wrong based
on what they're telling me,

120
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I'll let them know,
"This could be a pretty"

121
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"Dangerous trip for you."

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Scratch the surface of most
P.I.s and you don't find a clean

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Record, you find
a lotta skeletons.

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And then we met Tom Grant.

125
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It turned out he had
an exemplary record.

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He was respected, he
was a stand-up guy.

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There was a consensus,
and that went a long way

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To convincing us
of his credibility.

129
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The word conspiracy is
actually a legal term.

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It simply means two or
more people plotting

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Or planning to commit a crime.

132
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Even committing shoplifting
with another person

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Can actually be charged
with conspiracy.

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When somebody refers to me
as a conspiracy theorist,

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I take it as an insult because
I know what they mean by it.

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Hiring me is not like
hiring an attorney.

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It's not to protect you, it's
not to keep you outta jail.

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My job as a private investigator
is to find the truth.

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It's simply to find
the truth in the matter

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That you're hiring me for.

141
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On Easter Sunday,
I was in my office

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With a private investigator
who worked for me

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Named Ben Klugman,
and we were dealing

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With a client when
the phone rang.

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Now who calls on Easter?

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Would you excuse us
for just a second?

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The Grant Company,
how may I help you?

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And it was a woman's
voice on the other end,

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Kind of a raspy, low voice.

150
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Now if someone is unlawfully
using your credit cards,

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Maybe the police are the
better people to call.

152
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And then she said,
"My husband and I are"

153
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"Kinda famous, and we need
to get this done right away."

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And your husband's name?

155
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Are you kidding me?

156
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No, no.

157
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I was about 47 at
the time; Ben Klugman,

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My investigator, was 29.

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He immediately
knew who they were

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And what had been
going on, even in Rome

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Just a few weeks earlier.

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Because it was a holiday, of
course, there were very few,

163
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If any, other
private investigators
working, so she went

164
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Through the Yellow Pages
and she found our ad

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And I was probably one
of many that she called,

166
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And I think she was
probably surprised

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To have the phone picked up.

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What room number?

169
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It's not very often that
a private investigator goes

170
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Against his client, so I'm
sure she regrets hiring me.

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When we were available
to meet Courtney

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At the Peninsula Hotel,
first thing she said,

173
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And this is her words,
they're not mine,

174
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You leak this to the press,
I'll sue the fuck out of you.

175
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Well, hello to
you too.

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How ya doin'?

177
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Kurtis came from
rehab a couple days ago.

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He bought a ticket back to
Seattle, but nobody's seen him

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Since he got back.

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When I first entered
the room, she was wearing

181
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A negligee nightgown,
totally see-through.

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She might as well have
had nothing on whatsoever.

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I called
the credit card companies

184
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And told them that
the card was stolen

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And that they should cancel it.

186
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Was it?

187
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What?

188
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Stolen.

189
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No.

190
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Courtney eventually told
us that Kurt's credit card

191
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Actually wasn't stolen,
that she had called the

192
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Credit card company and
canceled it so that nobody

193
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Could use it.

194
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She felt that that would,
essentially, cut him off

195
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From any funds.

196
00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:36,300
I'm sure your husband has
another way of getting money.

197
00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:37,700
Are you kidding me?

198
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:39,600
Kurt is helpless, he
doesn't have any friends.

199
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,200
Again, in her words,
"You don't understand."

200
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"This guy can't even catch a..."

201
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Fucking cab by
himself if he wanted to!

202
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:48,700
Hey.

203
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,500
That's my drug dealer.

204
00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:02,200
I didn't know at the
time that this was supposed

205
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,800
To be an in-house rehab.

206
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,500
I learned that later,
but a total farce.

207
00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:10,700
Most of the time I was
with her, she was either

208
00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:13,500
On drugs or doing drugs.

209
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:16,200
There was nobody overseeing
what was going on there.

210
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,500
Listen,
Kurt escaped from rehab,

211
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:21,200
He bought a shotgun, and I
just feel like something bad

212
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,800
Is gonna happen, okay?

213
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,400
In the middle of all this
conversation, she keeps talking

214
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,000
About how suicidal he is,
and how everybody thinks

215
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,700
He's gonna commit suicide.

216
00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:30,700
Everybody
knows it, everybody thinks

217
00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:31,700
He's gonna die.

218
00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:32,900
Hold on a second.

219
00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:34,900
If he bought a shotgun
and he's suicidal,

220
00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:36,400
Then dealing with this
credit card problem,

221
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,100
That's the least important
thing we could help you with.

222
00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:43,100
Okay, well that's
where I want you to start.

223
00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:47,700
She started off with a lie
when we first talked to her

224
00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:50,700
On the phone, saying why
she wanted to hire us,

225
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:54,100
Which wasn't true, and
then she starts telling us

226
00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:56,100
These other things that
just didn't add up.

227
00:14:56,100 --> 00:14:58,600
They weren't logical,
they didn't make sense.

228
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,600
So all kinds of red
flags started popping up.

229
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,000
I dunno what's gonna
happen with this case,

230
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,800
But we are gonna
document everything.

231
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,900
Looking back on that day,
it turned out to be a day

232
00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:13,400
That really changed
my life forever.

233
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,100
The name Kurt Cobain
goes through my mind,

234
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:19,800
Probably three or 400
times a day, at least,

235
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,000
And it has for the last
20 years, by necessity,

236
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,500
Because of the e-mails I
get, the letters I get,

237
00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:29,800
And all the other stuff,
because he was so famous,

238
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,800
And it gets a little
bit old after a while,

239
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,900
Just thinking Kurt Cobain,
Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain.

240
00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:37,900
Kurt Cobain,
Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain,

241
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:39,700
Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain.

242
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:27,300
Growing up in Aberdeen,

243
00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:31,300
Basically not a whole lot to do.

244
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:33,400
Nine months out of the
year is very dreary,

245
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,400
Very overcast, lotsa rain.

246
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,400
It's kinda hard living in this
area and not being depressed.

247
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,600
Employment
opportunities in Aberdeen,

248
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,200
There's not a whole lot.

249
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,200
For the most part, we
were lower-middle class.

250
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,600
I don't think we would
be considered poor,

251
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,300
We certainly didn't go hungry.

252
00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:54,000
The first two weeks of
the month, everybody gets

253
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,400
Their welfare check,
the bars are packed.

254
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,700
The last two weeks of the
month, the bars are empty

255
00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:02,800
And that's pretty much the
state of living.

256
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,700
Kurt used to live
across the street,

257
00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:06,800
And his mother and him,
they'd sit out there and argue

258
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,300
For a half hour or 45 minutes,
and the wife and I slept up

259
00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:15,100
In the upstairs bedroom, so
we used to hear it.

260
00:17:15,100 --> 00:17:18,900
I knew Kurt Cobain
from the high school.

261
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:22,700
He ran around with
my two oldest sons.

262
00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:25,400
The couch I'm sitting
on now is the couch

263
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,400
That Kurt slept on.

264
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:32,400
He stayed for a few days,
and then a few days more,

265
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,800
And it just sorta stretched
out to be about a year.

266
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:42,600
It's a depressing
atmosphere, but I also think

267
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,200
At the same time, that's
why we have so many bands

268
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,000
From all over Washington State.

269
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,200
There was nothing to do.

270
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,900
It rained constantly, so
what you had to do was

271
00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:53,200
You had to improvise.

272
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,200
People tended to pick
up instruments and play,

273
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:56,900
And I think that just
affected the music

274
00:17:56,900 --> 00:17:58,600
For this whole
region in general.

275
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,000
In our neighborhood,
we lived a block away

276
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,300
From the group that
became the Melvins.

277
00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:09,200
Metal Church lived in
the house next door.

278
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,300
We had examples of
people who made it.

279
00:18:12,300 --> 00:18:14,500
I used to see him with
his drum sticks beat

280
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:18,000
On the stop signs, on the
fences, and his dad had

281
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,800
A old Ford pickup, he used
to beat on that.

282
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,900
When he first saw the Melvins
live for the first time,

283
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:27,200
He just knew that that
was what he wanted to do.

284
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,500
The day that changed his life.

285
00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:32,800
Before Nirvana, we
were called Skid Row,

286
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,000
And then we went from Skid
Row and we played live

287
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,600
On the radio, a
midnight show on Chaos.

288
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,300
The very next day, I
showed up at Kurt's

289
00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:43,300
And Kurt had his easel
and he was paintin'

290
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:46,200
This picture, and I
looked at it and I go,

291
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:47,200
"What the hell?"

292
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,100
It was a painting of a giant pen

293
00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:52,100
With its cap all chewed up.

294
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:55,000
From that day on, we
were called Pencap Chew.

295
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,600
We did some shows
as Pencap Chew,

296
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,700
And Kurt tired of that,
so we're Ted Ed Fred.

297
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:03,500
They don't like that no more,
so we're gonna be Bliss.

298
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,000
The fourth name was Bliss,

299
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,800
And then the fifth
name was Nirvana.

300
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,800
I didn't see him
as being particularly

301
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,500
Different emotionally
from any of us.

302
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:17,400
I think people tended
to read him wrong,

303
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,400
Just because he
was a quiet person.

304
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,100
I don't see Kurt as
being depressed at all,

305
00:19:22,100 --> 00:19:23,900
I see him as being optimistic.

306
00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:26,200
He gave me a lotta hope,

307
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,100
To hopefully, some day,
get outta this area

308
00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:29,900
With my music.

309
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:33,100
Nirvana, Mudhoney and the
Melvins was doing something.

310
00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:34,500
It was proactive.

311
00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:38,500
To me, that takes courage,
and he had that courage,

312
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:41,400
And that was the big difference.

313
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,900
He had so much talent
and tremendous amount

314
00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:48,400
Of creativity to give,
so it's unlimited,

315
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,000
What he could've done.

316
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,400
It would be nice to,
eventually, start playing

317
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,100
Acoustic guitars and be
thought of as a singer

318
00:19:57,100 --> 00:20:00,500
And a songwriter rather
than a grunge rocker.

319
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,900
Because then I might be able
to take advantage of that

320
00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:05,500
When I'm older and
sit down on a chair

321
00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:09,400
And play acoustic guitar like
Johnny Cash or something,

322
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:13,600
And it won't be a big
joke, but who knows?

323
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,100
My last real memory of Kurt

324
00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:21,000
And it's not a good thing
for me, but I was on my way

325
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,700
To work and I had to get gas.

326
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:24,500
I stopped in at one
of my former employers

327
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:27,500
And I was gettin' gas for
my car, and they actually

328
00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:29,200
Had the radio playing.

329
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,600
They overheard it on
the radio and stuff,

330
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,300
Standing, paying for my
gas, and it was like...

331
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,700
I can't forget that day.

332
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:57,400
I called
the credit card company

333
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,800
Like you said, and

334
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:03,900
They told me he also
bought two tickets

335
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:05,200
On United Airlines.

336
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:07,000
Where to?

337
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,500
They don't know, or
they won't tell me.

338
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,100
All they told me was how
much he paid for 'em.

339
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:15,200
So, I dunno.

340
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:21,500
Maybe he's going to hang
out with Michael again.

341
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:22,600
Michael.

342
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,000
Stipe.

343
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,700
Lead singer of R.E.M?

344
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:35,400
Anyway, I figure he
flies up, gets his guitar

345
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,400
From Seattle and then he
flies down to Atlanta,

346
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:38,600
But he has two tickets.

347
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,900
Did he buy a ticket
for someone else?

348
00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:49,000
I think Kurt wants a divorce.

349
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,700
Why would you say that?

350
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:55,300
He left me a note in Rome,
he said he's leaving me.

351
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,300
The subject of divorce
came up almost every time

352
00:21:58,300 --> 00:22:00,000
We talked after that.

353
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,500
Whenever Courtney
referred to divorce,

354
00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:04,400
She would usually
say something like...

355
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,200
The only way that a
divorce is gonna happen is

356
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,700
If I bust him for infidelity.

357
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:15,200
Has he been unfaithful?

358
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,400
Yes! Yes, I think so.

359
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,200
Courtney, on several
occasions, mentioned
that she thought

360
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,400
Kurt might be having an
affair with Kristen Pfaff,

361
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,800
Her bass player.

362
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,800
She was very jealous, and
she also felt like he might

363
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,900
Be having an affair
with Caitlin.

364
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:32,200
His drug dealer.

365
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,800
If Kurt's in Seattle,
he's with her.

366
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,100
She seemed to be
very jealous of anybody

367
00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:40,100
That got near Kurt, and wanted
to know every little move

368
00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:42,000
That he made.

369
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:50,800
So I planted a story
in the news yesterday,

370
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,300
Saying that I had OD'ed and
that I was in the hospital,

371
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:58,400
Thinking that Kurt would
get scared and call me.

372
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:00,700
I dunno, it's like...

373
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,800
I've got this record
coming out in a week,

374
00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:10,500
And so I know the value of this,
but I didn't think about it

375
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,300
When it first happened, but

376
00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:22,100
Anyway, what do I tell this
guy from the Associated Press?

377
00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:25,900
Should I call and confirm it,
and so the story goes out,

378
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:27,300
And say I was there?

379
00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:29,300
I tell you what, and this
is just my gut instinct

380
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:30,500
Yeah.

381
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,200
That way there's
no drugs involved

382
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,900
And the sympathy goes to me.

383
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,800
The press always
perceives me as just completely

384
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,900
Tragic and fucked up
anyway, so I don't know.

385
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,300
Thank you very much,
that's a lot of information,

386
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,400
And we'll go do our job.

387
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:40,100
We were already convinced
that Tom was sincere,

388
00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:41,500
That he believed
what he was saying.

389
00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:43,100
He certainly wasn't lying.

390
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:45,800
He brought us into this
office with a safe,

391
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,200
Opened the safe, and there was
this trove of cassette tapes,

392
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,600
Just hours and hours of tapes.

393
00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:55,000
And then he starts
playing us the tapes.

394
00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:59,600
And the facts were there.

395
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,600
She's just, coming
across as very controlling

396
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,500
And very angry.

397
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,400
Something was going on
that was outta the ordinary,

398
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,200
And there was more to this
than what I was being told.

399
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:41,700
I called
Seattle Police,

400
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:44,600
Filed a missing person's report.

401
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,300
Did they ask when
you were comin' back?

402
00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:49,200
She filed it in the
name of Wendy O'Connor,

403
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,900
Kurt Cobain's mother.

404
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,800
If I filed
it under my own name.

405
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,000
So all the media that
went out after that

406
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,600
That said Kurt's mother filed
a missing person's report

407
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,100
Was totally false.

408
00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:07,500
On April 4th, Kurt Cobain's
mother, Wendy O'Connor,

409
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,000
Filed a missing person's
report on her son

410
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,900
Because he reportedly fled a

411
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:13,600
Quote end quote, "facility."

412
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,300
She did not clarify whether
that was a drug treatment center

413
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:18,900
Or not, but that's what
people are speculating.

414
00:26:18,900 --> 00:26:21,300
She was worried about Kurt
because he had a shotgun

415
00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:22,500
In his possession.

416
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:25,600
She considered him suicidal.

417
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,600
That should
get things going, right?

418
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,000
Right.

419
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,500
What about Caitlin?

420
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:32,300
I know that they're together.

421
00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:33,700
I've got someone
watching her apartment.

422
00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:35,100
He hasn't showed up.

423
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:36,600
I wanna put someone
on your house too,

424
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,500
Because sooner or later
he's gonna come home.

425
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,600
But if
Kurt's still in Seattle,

426
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,000
He's hiding out, he's not
gonna be at the house.

427
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,500
He likes to stay in hotels,
fancy hotels downtown.

428
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,600
He uses the name Simon Richie.

429
00:26:59,700 --> 00:27:02,500
Mm, mm, or Bill Bailey.

430
00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:04,700
You should check that out.

431
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,100
The next day, on
Monday, when we hadn't had

432
00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:12,600
Any success with the really
nice hotels in Seattle,

433
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,500
We began calling some of
the other smaller motels,

434
00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:20,100
And we located a
motel, and there was a

435
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:22,500
Bill Bailey registered there.

436
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:23,700
I wanna send one of
our guys over there

437
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:25,200
To see if it's Kurt.

438
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,100
No no no no no
no, I don't want Kurt to know

439
00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:27,600
That I'm looking for him.

440
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:28,900
Send somebody over there,

441
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:31,500
Just have them watch
the hotel, okay?

442
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,700
Okay.

443
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,700
I dunno, 15 or
20 minutes went by.

444
00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:41,000
What do you mean
you called the hotel?

445
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,100
I thought that you said that
you didn't want Kurt to...

446
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:44,900
No! I, Tom...

447
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:48,900
Okay, listen,
if he's not there,

448
00:27:48,900 --> 00:27:50,300
Then I think we need
to set up a team

449
00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:51,600
At the Lake Washington house.

450
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,100
It's a waste of time, Tom.

451
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:54,900
You know what, he's
not gonna be there.

452
00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:56,900
Is there a reason that
you don't want surveillance

453
00:27:56,900 --> 00:27:57,900
On your house?

454
00:27:57,900 --> 00:28:00,200
Yes, because we don't need it.

455
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,100
Cali's there, he'll tell
me if Kurt shows up.

456
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:19,800
Earlier in the
day in a conversation,

457
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,700
Courtney told me she
didn't trust Cali,

458
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,200
And she said he's one of the
best liars she's ever met.

459
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:25,800
But now, all of a
sudden, she tells me

460
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:26,900
He won't tell anybody.

461
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:37,400
I'm not as
effective for you here

462
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:38,700
As I would be up there.

463
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:41,300
I'd like to move the entire
search up to Seattle.

464
00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:44,400
I know I got guys on the
ground there, local guys,

465
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,000
And if I were there I could
move 'em along a little.

466
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,800
That's fine, you can go.

467
00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:54,000
That's great, that's great.

468
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,400
Why don't you
go up there, Courtney?

469
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,400
Because I can't!

470
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,900
I have business to
take care of here.

471
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,300
Look, I'd appreciate it
if you didn't tell anyone

472
00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:03,800
I was traveling up there.

473
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,100
If anyone knows,
they might tell Kurt,

474
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:08,300
And then he could flee.

475
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:11,200
Absolutely, I
think it's a really good idea.

476
00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:14,600
Okay, I'm gonna get goin'.

477
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,300
Save the
American icon, Tom.

478
00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:53,200
As I was getting
ready to fly to Seattle,

479
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,700
Courtney told me
about Dylan Carlson.

480
00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:57,900
Dylan knew all the
hangouts, he knew the house

481
00:29:57,900 --> 00:29:59,500
Really well.

482
00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:02,100
Kurt's best friend
was Dylan Carlson.

483
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:05,000
So what are you
thinkin', is he suicidal?

484
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,800
No, not at all.

485
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,600
He's been under a lotta
pressure but he's been handling

486
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,400
Things pretty good.

487
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,800
I know he and Courtney
have been having

488
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,400
A lotta troubles lately, but...

489
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:19,300
I don't know why
Kurt married her.

490
00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:21,300
They don't get along, they
don't agree about anything,

491
00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:24,100
They're always fighting,
that type of thing.

492
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:27,100
This thing in
Rome, did anybody say

493
00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:29,600
That that may have been
him tryin' to kill himself?

494
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,100
No, it was an accident.

495
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:33,700
Everybody knows that.

496
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:35,800
I asked him several times
about whether Kurt was

497
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,500
Suicidal or not, and it
was almost a joke to him.

498
00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:41,300
It was like, "No,
of course not."

499
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:45,200
'Cause I'm thinkin'
if he was as suicidal

500
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,700
As she says he is, why would
she let him buy a shotgun?

501
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:49,800
He's not suicidal.

502
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,300
We bought that shotgun
the day he went to rehab,

503
00:30:52,300 --> 00:30:54,600
Been a burglary at
the house recently.

504
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,000
The police had just
confiscated his other gun,

505
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,300
So I registered it in my name.

506
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:04,000
Trust me, if he was suicidal,
I would never let him

507
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,800
Get a shotgun.

508
00:31:10,700 --> 00:31:12,900
Singer Courtney Love says
Cobain had first written

509
00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:15,400
A suicide note to her
which said, in part,

510
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,900
"It's not fun for me anymore,
I can't live this life."

511
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:21,000
There was a mythology
that, "Oh yeah",

512
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,700
"Everybody knew he was suicidal,"

513
00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:25,000
"That was just obvious,"

514
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,800
So it was no big surprise when
he finally killed himself.

515
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,000
And then you go to
those closest to him,

516
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,900
The people that knew him best,

517
00:31:31,900 --> 00:31:34,700
And none of them
believed he was suicidal.

518
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:37,900
I've never heard Kurt talk
about suicide or anything,

519
00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:39,700
He always seemed
happy around me.

520
00:31:39,700 --> 00:31:42,600
Quiet, shy, but
definitely happy.

521
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,500
Never hinted to me
that he was depressed.

522
00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:49,400
His music and his lyrics
portrayed a darker side

523
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,400
To some of his emotions, but
I think that was glorified.

524
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,600
People start to analyze
the lyrics and look at some

525
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,500
Of the things that
he wrote and say,

526
00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:59,400
"Of course, look at
what he wrote here."

527
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,100
"Obviously he's
talking about suicide."

528
00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:05,200
I'm tired of people
thinking, trying to put

529
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,500
Too much meaning into my lyrics.

530
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:08,900
A lotta times when I
write lyrics, which is

531
00:32:08,900 --> 00:32:12,200
At the last second
'cause I'm really lazy.

532
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,100
And then I find myself
having to come up

533
00:32:14,100 --> 00:32:16,100
With explanations for it.

534
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,000
There may be one or two lines
in a song here and there,

535
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,300
But I swear to God,
brother, it's really not

536
00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:25,400
As much as it seems.

537
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,600
The pain in his stomach,
this was a big thing

538
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,500
This stomach pain that he'd
been suffering for years

539
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:33,500
Was so severe that it made
him wanna kill himself.

540
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:35,700
He did talk like that,
there's no question,

541
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:39,800
And once that was
diagnosed, it was treated,

542
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,000
And the pain went away.

543
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,800
How's your stomach?

544
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:43,900
Have you found anything to...

545
00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:46,900
It's gone.

546
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:48,400
- Yeah?
- Yeah.

547
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,700
I finally have been prescribed
the right stomach medicine

548
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:56,700
After six years of being
in constant pain, finally.

549
00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:00,700
I haven't had a stomach
problem for over a year now.

550
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:04,800
The stomach pain and the
outlook and his disposition

551
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,900
Seem to be very closely linked.

552
00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:08,600
He had given an interview
to Rolling Stone,

553
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,100
Where he said he was
happier than he'd ever been.

554
00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:11,900
Is this your idea?

555
00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:18,400
When you hear Courtney
spinning this whole

556
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,400
Elaborate timeline about how
he tried to commit suicide

557
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,800
Before and he was
talking about suicide

558
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,500
To everybody he knew, that
just seems to be fiction.

559
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,400
Rather chillingly, Love
says that three of Cobain's

560
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,700
Uncles had also
committed suicide.

561
00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:37,100
She calls it the Cobain curse.

562
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:41,000
As far as the suicide
history in the Cobain family,

563
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,600
Leland Cobain's father,
he was a Monte Santo

564
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,600
Police officer, and he
went into a bar one day

565
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,800
And he sat at a bar stool.

566
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,600
This was back in 1938.

567
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,300
His gun somehow dislodged
from its holster,

568
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:56,600
Hit the ground, and
according to the report,

569
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,900
He looked around in the
bar and asked if everybody

570
00:33:58,900 --> 00:34:00,800
Was okay, and then
immediately collapsed.

571
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,000
He just fell dead.

572
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,600
From what Leland has told
me about his brother,

573
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,600
His brother was drinking
and he fell down a staircase

574
00:34:11,700 --> 00:34:13,900
And died from
complications of that.

575
00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:15,100
Neither Kurt's great-grandpa

576
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:18,000
Or his great-uncle
were suicides.

577
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,500
One of the important
elements in the case,

578
00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:23,900
And in convincing the
world that it was suicide

579
00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:27,400
Was the so-called
"Rome suicide attempt."

580
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,600
Nirvana front-man Kurt Cobain,

581
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,400
Who slipped into a coma
and was hospitalized

582
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,000
In Rome, Italy, at about 6AM
this morning, was in a state

583
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,700
Of what his management
calls "complete collapse."

584
00:34:38,700 --> 00:34:40,300
His condition was
apparently aggravated

585
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:41,900
When he consumed
champagne on top of a

586
00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:44,500
Prescription painkiller
called Rohypnol.

587
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:47,700
At the time, the word
suicide was never used

588
00:34:47,700 --> 00:34:50,000
By the media, by
Courtney, by Kurt.

589
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,200
It was portrayed as an
accidental drug overdose.

590
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,300
He recovered from
the coma, and his publicists

591
00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:58,200
Said the incident was an
accident, not a suicide attempt.

592
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,000
As soon as Kurt died, first
interviews that Courtney gave

593
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,700
She started talking about
previous suicide attempts,

594
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:06,700
Rome was a suicide attempt.

595
00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:08,800
Courtney started telling people

596
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,900
That Kurt had
swallowed 60 pills.

597
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:14,600
You swallow 60 pills,
that's not an accident.

598
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,300
That's a suicide attempt.

599
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:20,000
So we decided to contact
the doctor that treated Kurt

600
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:25,000
In Rome, Doctor Galletta,
and he categorically denied

601
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,400
That there were 60
pills in his stomach

602
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,900
And that it was a
suicide attempt.

603
00:35:30,900 --> 00:35:34,600
At the time, Kurt and
Courtney both said it was

604
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,300
An accident, and the
doctor confirmed that.

605
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:40,100
So there's just no evidence
that he had ever tried

606
00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:41,700
To kill himself before.

607
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:44,600
No anecdotal evidence,
nobody else close to Kurt

608
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,700
Ever said that he tried
to commit suicide,

609
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:50,600
But the world just took
Courtney's word for it.

610
00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:35,600
While I was in Seattle with
Dylan and we were driving

611
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,000
Around, I mentioned to
him that Courtney said

612
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,900
That Kurt only stays
in the best hotels,

613
00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:43,600
And he was almost incredulous.

614
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,600
He practically
laughed and he said,

615
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,100
"That's ridiculous!"

616
00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:51,100
"He hates fancy hotels, he
stays in really cheap places,"

617
00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:53,600
"Mostly along the Aurora strip."

618
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,700
Have you seen him or not?

619
00:36:56,500 --> 00:36:57,800
Okay, come on.

620
00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:07,600
I'm gonna call
Courtney and check in.

621
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,200
I dunno what's goin' on.

622
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,400
Dylan told me that when
they did stay at those motels,

623
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,500
They usually stayed
for two or three weeks,

624
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:17,900
Basically living off of
Coca Cola and potato chips

625
00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:19,900
And doing their heroin.

626
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,000
Courtney always wanted
to go through Dylan,

627
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,400
She wanted to talk
to Dylan on the phone

628
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,300
And have Dylan give
me the instructions.

629
00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:37,300
Courtney's had some trouble,
she was in the hospital

630
00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:39,200
And she got arrested.

631
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,700
What?

632
00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:43,700
She said that it was all a
big mistake and she's fine.

633
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:45,600
She wants us to go back
to the house and look

634
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,400
For the shotgun again.

635
00:37:48,100 --> 00:37:49,700
She thinks it might be
in the hidden compartment

636
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:51,400
Of the bedroom closet.

637
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,200
Hidden compartment?

638
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,400
She hadn't mentioned
that to us before,

639
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,700
But she said, "That's where
Kurt keeps the shotgun",

640
00:37:57,700 --> 00:38:00,200
"So if it's there, that's
where it's gonna be."

641
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,500
Let's go.

642
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,500
Remember this from last night?

643
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:22,900
No.

644
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:26,200
The note that was
apparently written by Cali

645
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:27,700
Didn't make sense.

646
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:31,600
"Kurt, I can't believe you
managed to be in this house"

647
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,400
"Without me noticing."

648
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,400
"You're a fucking asshole
for not calling Courtney"

649
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,500
"And at least letting her
know that you're okay."

650
00:38:39,500 --> 00:38:42,300
"She's in a lot of pain,
Kurt, and this morning"

651
00:38:42,300 --> 00:38:44,300
"She had another
accident, and now she's"

652
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:46,400
"In the hospital again."

653
00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:49,300
We looked in that little
hidden compartment.

654
00:38:49,300 --> 00:38:51,200
There was no shotgun there.

655
00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:55,200
"She's your wife, she loves you,"

656
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,200
"And you have a child together."

657
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,400
"Get it together to at
least tell her you're okay,"

658
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,300
"Or she is going to die."

659
00:39:02,300 --> 00:39:04,000
"It's not fair, man."

660
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,600
"Do something now."

661
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,500
Later when I talked to
Rosemary Carroll about it

662
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:19,300
And I told her I was
suspicious of it,

663
00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:22,600
She jumped in right away, and
she knows Cali real well, too.

664
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,800
Dylan and I headed out
to the town of Carnation,

665
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,600
Just outside of Seattle.

666
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:22,600
Kurt and Courtney
owned two cabins there,

667
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,700
And we were curious to see if
there had been any evidence

668
00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:26,900
Of Kurt being there.

669
00:40:27,900 --> 00:40:31,900
We got about halfway there
when we stopped to get gas,

670
00:40:31,900 --> 00:40:34,100
And Dylan made
another phone call.

671
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:47,500
I got a phone
call from our electrician,

672
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:52,400
Gary Smith, and he was doing
some security lighting.

673
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:53,800
We had a house above.

674
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,600
We just knew it was a
rock star in Seattle,

675
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,200
We weren't sure,
didn't know who he was.

676
00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:01,600
He literally just
stumbled across it.

677
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,900
He looked through a
doorway, a glass door,

678
00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:11,700
A locked door,
and he saw a body.

679
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,900
And he said, "I think
he shot himself."

680
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:21,500
I called a radio station,
told 'em what happened.

681
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:23,800
So I answered
the call and there's a guy

682
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,400
On the end of the line,
and he's goin', "I have got"

683
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,700
"Some incredible news here."

684
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,100
Anything?

685
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,400
A friend of mine said he
just heard they found a body

686
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,600
At Kurt's house.

687
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,000
What?

688
00:41:45,300 --> 00:41:47,400
Rock
group Nirvana is dead.

689
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,100
An electrician
discovered Cobain's body

690
00:41:49,100 --> 00:41:51,700
In the singer's Lake
Washington home this morning.

691
00:41:51,700 --> 00:41:54,100
The electrician tells KOMO
news that emergency crews

692
00:41:54,100 --> 00:41:56,700
Told him that the dead
man is Kurt Cobain.

693
00:41:56,700 --> 00:41:58,100
When I heard
that the body was found

694
00:41:58,100 --> 00:42:00,800
In a room that was called
the Greenhouse, I turned

695
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,200
To Dylan and I said,
"What's the Greenhouse?"

696
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,300
And he said, "It's just
a dirty little room"

697
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:07,500
"Above the garage."

698
00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:09,600
They stored lumber or
something in there.

699
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,400
It sounded to me
like this was just

700
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,500
Some kinda broom
closet or something.

701
00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:14,700
So do you
think he intentionally

702
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:16,900
Did not tell you to
check that room out?

703
00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:19,600
Again, I hope the
listeners bear in mind

704
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,800
We're having to skip over
an awful lotta stuff...

705
00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:27,900
I glanced down on
the floor and I saw

706
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:29,800
Something that looked
like a mannequin.

707
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,900
I can see blood in this
ear, and long hair,

708
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:37,500
And immediately got
a little shaken.

709
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,900
The French doors were locked.

710
00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:47,800
I was first in and
right away could see

711
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,100
That it was a fatality.

712
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,000
The shotgun lay in his lap,
a significant pool of blood

713
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,600
By his head.

714
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:57,900
There was nothing
we could do for him,

715
00:42:57,900 --> 00:42:59,900
So we didn't touch the body.

716
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,400
We'll check for mail or
somethin' with a name on it.

717
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,400
The officer said, "Do
you want the name?"

718
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,300
Knowing I needed
it for my log book.

719
00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:13,200
He said, "It's
Cobain, Kurt Cobain."

720
00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:15,800
A couple of second delay
and my head snappin' around,

721
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,800
I said, "You mean
the rock star?"

722
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,400
The developing
story shocks the music world.

723
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,500
A man found dead this morning
is rock star Kurt Cobain.

724
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:27,600
Cobain's
body was found about a...

725
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,000
Apparently
it was a suicide...

726
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:39,500
Was so severe
that his body could only

727
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:41,600
Be identified by fingerprints.

728
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,200
Police can't
release the details found

729
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,900
In Cobain's suicide note,
but over the past couple

730
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:48,900
Of years, Cobain has
had some tough times.

731
00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:50,600
Cobain was 27.

732
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,100
He joins a growing list of
rock stars who burn bright

733
00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:56,400
Then burn out tragically.

734
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,800
When we
arrived at the property

735
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,300
It was broad daylight and
the Greenhouse stuck out

736
00:44:01,300 --> 00:44:02,700
Like a sore thumb.

737
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:04,800
You could see it from the
street above the bushes,

738
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,200
It was so tall.

739
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,500
I just didn't understand why
he didn't point that out to me.

740
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:14,500
That's
Entertainment Tonight.

741
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:16,500
He's Rolling Stone.

742
00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:18,900
Dylan didn't like the
press and he said Kurt didn't

743
00:44:18,900 --> 00:44:20,400
Like the press.

744
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,600
Current Affairs;
stay away from them.

745
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,300
Ho ho ho.

746
00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:25,300
I'm Tom
Grant, how are you?

747
00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:26,700
Fine.

748
00:44:26,700 --> 00:44:29,100
I was hired by
Courtney Love to investigate

749
00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:30,600
The disappearance
of her husband.

750
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,400
I've got information I
think would be helpful.

751
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,300
Could I speak to the
detective in charge?

752
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:37,800
Wait here.

753
00:44:50,300 --> 00:44:52,300
He said he's too busy
to speak with you now.

754
00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:55,300
Call the station after 3PM;
you can talk to him then.

755
00:44:55,300 --> 00:44:57,300
I was dumbfounded by that.

756
00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:00,700
If I were a police officer
investigating the dead body

757
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:03,600
And somebody told me
there was somebody outside

758
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,000
That had been in the
house the night before,

759
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,900
I'd tell them, "Hold him."

760
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:10,600
"If they say they need
to leave, handcuff 'em,"

761
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,400
"And keep 'em there until we
get a chance to talk to 'em."

762
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,100
You don't let
somebody like that go,

763
00:45:15,100 --> 00:45:18,400
You don't take a chance until
you've fully investigated

764
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:23,200
A case and determined
positively how this person died.

765
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:24,700
The Seattle Police
Department claimed

766
00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:27,900
They were investigating
this as a possible homicide.

767
00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:30,300
If they were, they certainly
wouldn't allow somebody

768
00:45:30,300 --> 00:45:33,000
To leave when they'd been
in the house the night

769
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,100
Before a dead body was
found on the property.

770
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,800
I'm Norm Stamper.

771
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,500
I was a police
officer for 34 years,

772
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:45,500
And last six from 1994 to 2000
as Seattle's police chief.

773
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:48,700
I wouldn't pretend that
there aren't police officers

774
00:45:48,700 --> 00:45:52,900
Who are cynical and
suspicious and skeptical.

775
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:56,900
That was the case in
the Kurt Cobain death.

776
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,600
John F. Kennedy,
Martin Luther King,

777
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,300
Elvis Presley, Marilyn Monroe.

778
00:46:07,300 --> 00:46:09,600
Over the past 50 years as a

779
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,900
Medical-legal forensic
pathology consultant,

780
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:14,800
I've been involved in
thousands of cases,

781
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,600
About 18,000 autopsies,
and I have reviewed,

782
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,600
Signed off or
supervised, and evaluated

783
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,400
About 38,000 other autopsies.

784
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,400
I have personally
investigated, supervised,

785
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,200
Consulted and researched
on over 8,000 homicides.

786
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,700
I wrote Practical Homicide
Investigation because there was

787
00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:35,200
A need for a standard protocol
to approach all death scenes.

788
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,300
From the very beginning,
everything that the detectives

789
00:46:38,300 --> 00:46:42,400
Encountered indicated to
them that this was a suicide.

790
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:47,400
The decision to rule the
case by police the same day

791
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,700
And to make a public
pronouncement that this was

792
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:54,100
A suicide is not the
way good police agencies

793
00:46:54,100 --> 00:46:55,500
Would function today.

794
00:46:55,500 --> 00:46:57,000
As a homicide commander,

795
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,800
I would not be making
any proclamations

796
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,100
That the case was a suicide
without the evidence

797
00:47:02,100 --> 00:47:04,100
Having been processed:
the victimology,

798
00:47:04,100 --> 00:47:06,600
The medical-legal
process, toxicology.

799
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,000
It's a death investigation.

800
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,500
They knew nothing
about the drug level,

801
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:12,800
They knew nothing
about fingerprints,

802
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,800
They knew nothing about
anything else at that time

803
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,100
Except that they had
found him with a shotgun.

804
00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:19,500
The reason we call things
death investigations is

805
00:47:19,500 --> 00:47:21,700
That we don't wanna
prematurely make them

806
00:47:21,700 --> 00:47:23,800
Homicides, suicides
or accidents.

807
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,500
It's a death investigation.

808
00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:29,400
Cases that involve
prominent figures,

809
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,100
These cases usually take
more time because you know

810
00:47:34,100 --> 00:47:36,000
That there are gonna
be more questions.

811
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,600
People are gonna wanna
know every single

812
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:38,700
Thing about it.

813
00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:40,400
In the Philip
Seymour Hoffman case,

814
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,000
They found him with
a needle in his arm.

815
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,100
They found 50 bags
of heroin right there

816
00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:48,100
In his apartment, and
yet they did not make

817
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:50,000
Any announcement beyond that.

818
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,300
They knew that they
should not be commenting.

819
00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:55,200
Official statements as to
cause and manner of death

820
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,600
Do not come from police or
even homicide detectives.

821
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,300
They do not.

822
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:05,500
I've never believed that
the police were involved

823
00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:08,900
From the beginning in
any kind of a conspiracy

824
00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:11,400
Involving Kurt Cobain's death.

825
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,100
I think they were set
up by Courtney Love

826
00:48:14,100 --> 00:48:16,000
From that missing
person's report,

827
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,100
And everything
that it said in it.

828
00:48:18,100 --> 00:48:22,100
If my officers heard
or were made aware

829
00:48:22,100 --> 00:48:25,600
That Kurt Cobain had
left rehab, had purchased

830
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,300
A shotgun, was suicidal,
that's of course going

831
00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:30,700
To affect them.

832
00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:33,700
They, what I call assumed
the suicide position,

833
00:48:33,700 --> 00:48:35,800
Which to me means cut
corners, not do this,

834
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,800
Not do that, because it's
a suicide, no problem.

835
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,800
I have to admit, there's
been a lot of inconsistencies

836
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,100
In this case.

837
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:43,600
Really?

838
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,000
The reports that were
coming out in the media said

839
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,300
Kurt Cobain was barricaded
inside the Greenhouse.

840
00:48:49,300 --> 00:48:51,200
Look at this photograph.

841
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,200
Is that the lock
you're talking about?

842
00:48:53,900 --> 00:48:55,300
I dunno where
this picture's from,

843
00:48:55,300 --> 00:48:57,200
So I couldn't say.

844
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:58,900
Well, it's from
the Greenhouse.

845
00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:00,900
I've been over the
place inside and out,

846
00:49:00,900 --> 00:49:03,500
And trust me, that
is the only lock.

847
00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:04,800
If you say so.

848
00:49:05,700 --> 00:49:07,900
Presuming I'm
telling you the truth,

849
00:49:07,900 --> 00:49:10,200
Why would you say that
he locked himself in?

850
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,600
Because the door was locked.

851
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:14,800
Look at the picture.

852
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:16,800
It's not a deadbolt,
it's a twist lock.

853
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,200
Anybody coulda twisted that
lock and pulled the door shut

854
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:20,400
Behind 'em when they left.

855
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,100
Look, the lock doesn't matter.

856
00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:24,700
There was a stool wedged
up against the door.

857
00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:26,000
Now how do you wedge
a stool against a door

858
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,500
After you've already
left the room?

859
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:30,300
The police reports
plainly states that the stool

860
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:33,000
Was simply sitting in
front of the two unlocked

861
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,900
French doors at the
other side of the room,

862
00:49:35,900 --> 00:49:38,800
But on one of the reports,
it was added that the stool

863
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,400
Was blocking the entrance.

864
00:49:42,900 --> 00:49:44,400
Someone reported
that there was a stool

865
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,400
Blocking the door.

866
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:46,300
That wasn't the case.

867
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:47,900
I dunno where that came from.

868
00:49:47,900 --> 00:49:49,500
If you could just
show me the photographs

869
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:52,000
Your officer took at the
scene, we can put that issue

870
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:53,200
To rest once and for all.

871
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,400
Well the photographs
haven't been developed,

872
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,400
Probably never will be.

873
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,100
We don't develop
photographs on suicides.

874
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,400
I have never heard of that.

875
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,200
Every case I've been
involved, with the crime scene

876
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:06,500
Photographs were developed.

877
00:50:06,500 --> 00:50:08,300
Why not release 'em
to other experts?

878
00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:09,800
I can't answer that question.

879
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,300
It was something that the
Seattle Police department did.

880
00:50:13,300 --> 00:50:16,000
In hindsight, they
probably shouldn't have.

881
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:17,600
But that's what they did.

882
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,300
Nothing you've said
convinces me this is anything

883
00:50:20,300 --> 00:50:22,100
But a suicide.

884
00:50:22,700 --> 00:50:25,200
Now do you got any
other pearls for me?

885
00:50:26,900 --> 00:50:28,400
Not at this time.

886
00:50:29,100 --> 00:50:32,100
Detective Cameron
resigned when he learned

887
00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:34,200
I was preparing to fire him.

888
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,100
He had colluded with one
of his own detectives

889
00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:40,800
To replant evidence
that had been stolen

890
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,800
By a homicide detective
at a homicide scene.

891
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,800
And it was for that reason
that I was preparing

892
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,500
To fire him.

893
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:57,400
I'm just giving you
the information I have,

894
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,900
I don't care what
you do with it.

895
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,400
I understand that, but
I think your investigation

896
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,700
Is into things that our
investigation doesn't apply to.

897
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,800
You don't allow
a patrol officer

898
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,800
With no homicide
investigative experience

899
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,500
To determine whether a
scene is a suicide or not.

900
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,200
My opinion is, in 1994,

901
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,100
They just didn't
look at anything.

902
00:51:39,100 --> 00:51:42,200
If it appeared to be a
suicide, it was a suicide.

903
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,000
Case closed.

904
00:52:18,900 --> 00:52:21,900
The news media do
poison the atmosphere,

905
00:52:21,900 --> 00:52:24,100
And I have been involved
in cases in which

906
00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:28,600
It was impossible, almost,
to overcome the beliefs

907
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,200
That had been created
within the community

908
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,000
Because of the way in
which that particular death

909
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,200
Had been reported.

910
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:36,600
Judging by the
evidence at the scene,

911
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,700
Love says, Cobain
apparently drew a chair up

912
00:52:38,700 --> 00:52:41,500
To a window looking out
on Puget Sound, sat down,

913
00:52:41,500 --> 00:52:43,500
Took some more drugs,
picked up his shotgun and,

914
00:52:43,500 --> 00:52:46,200
Using his thumb, it seems,
shot himself in the head.

915
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,000
The physical damage was so
severe that his body could

916
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,400
Only be identified
by fingerprints.

917
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:51,700
I was a bit surprised.

918
00:52:51,700 --> 00:52:53,300
Normally a shotgun
wound to the head,

919
00:52:53,300 --> 00:52:55,200
The ones I've seen,
are pretty devastating,

920
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,700
Often making facial
features unrecognizable.

921
00:52:57,700 --> 00:53:00,600
His head was not grossly
deformed or badly damaged.

922
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,900
I think I certainly
would've recognized him.

923
00:53:02,900 --> 00:53:04,800
I don't see any reason
why anyone wouldn't have,

924
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,200
Who knew what he looked like.

925
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,200
Seattle's own police
reports indicate

926
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,900
That Officer Lavendowski
found Kurt Cobain's wallet

927
00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:13,800
Lyin' on the floor.

928
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,200
He opened it up and removed
his driver's license,

929
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,800
And he put it on top
of Cobain's wallet

930
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,200
To take a photograph
for evidence.

931
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,800
Most of the media
reported that Kurt left

932
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,600
His driver's license exposed,
and a lot of 'em went

933
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:29,200
Into a lotta detail:

934
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,200
That he did that so that
everyone would recognize him.

935
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:34,400
But it was completely false.

936
00:54:08,900 --> 00:54:11,000
Love, who, contrary to
rumor, says she and Cobain

937
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,900
Hadn't broken up, says
Cobain had first written

938
00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:16,400
A suicide note to her
which said, in part,

939
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,300
"It's not fun for me anymore."

940
00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:19,900
"I can't live this life."

941
00:54:19,900 --> 00:54:23,100
News media play a great
role in these matters.

942
00:54:23,100 --> 00:54:25,300
John Kennedy,
incidentally, pointed out

943
00:54:25,300 --> 00:54:28,500
The need for integrity
within the news media.

944
00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:30,000
This has been something
that was commented

945
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,400
Upon going back to
our founding fathers,

946
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,000
Because sometimes
pressures from news media

947
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,000
Can be very, very significant.

948
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,200
I don't have the
right to make an opinion

949
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,100
On anything that I read
or see on television

950
00:54:44,100 --> 00:54:47,800
Until I go to the fuckin'
source myself, personally.

951
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,700
The toxicology report
from Kurt Cobain's autopsy

952
00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:59,600
Indicated a heroin blood level
of 1.52 milligrams per liter.

953
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,700
Five milligrams
will produce a level

954
00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:06,400
Of 0.035 milligrams.

955
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,800
Most users, even heavy users,

956
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,700
Only use up to 40 to 60
milligrams in one hit.

957
00:55:12,700 --> 00:55:17,100
So you can see, to reach
1.52 milligrams per liter,

958
00:55:17,100 --> 00:55:19,500
You're talking about an
amount that would have

959
00:55:19,500 --> 00:55:24,500
Certainly have exceeded 200
milligrams that were injected

960
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,300
Into Kurt Cobain.

961
00:55:26,300 --> 00:55:29,300
Three times the amount that
would be considered lethal.

962
00:55:29,300 --> 00:55:32,200
I think very legitimate
questions have been raised

963
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:33,800
About the level of heroin.

964
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,500
We have not, in 18
years, found a single case

965
00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:41,400
Where somebody could
have the level of heroin

966
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:45,700
In their body that Kurt did
and still remain conscious.

967
00:55:45,700 --> 00:55:47,100
70
times the lethal dose

968
00:55:47,100 --> 00:55:49,600
For the average person,
triple the lethal dose

969
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,400
Even for the most
severe heroin addict.

970
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:52,900
It would have incapacitated him,

971
00:55:52,900 --> 00:55:54,500
He would have been unconscious.

972
00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:57,000
And then roll down
their sleeves, put
away their heroin kit,

973
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:58,900
Pick up the shotgun,
position it backwards

974
00:55:58,900 --> 00:56:00,700
And pull the trigger.

975
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,000
That deals with
coordinative functions.

976
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,400
How about the emotional
aspects of this?

977
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,200
Why would he then shoot
himself before the drug

978
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,200
Has had a chance to take effect?

979
00:56:14,300 --> 00:56:18,600
No study that I know
of has correlated use

980
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,700
Of heroin with suicide.

981
00:56:21,700 --> 00:56:25,600
I cannot think of a case
in which I have had someone

982
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:29,500
Inject himself with a
large amount of heroin

983
00:56:29,500 --> 00:56:32,000
And then proceed
to kill himself.

984
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,000
It just doesn't make sense,
and it doesn't fit in

985
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,400
With these kinds of
situations involving heroin.

986
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,300
These are questions that
I think deserve answers,

987
00:56:41,300 --> 00:56:43,200
And in fact, require answers.

988
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,500
Many of the questions
could be answered

989
00:56:46,500 --> 00:56:50,800
If the medical examiner's
office would make public

990
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,800
The autopsy report.

991
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,900
I haven't been able to
see the toxicology report

992
00:56:55,900 --> 00:56:59,900
Or the autopsy report
because I haven't had access

993
00:56:59,900 --> 00:57:03,600
To review the actual
documentation from
the authorities.

994
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,700
The autopsy report
is public record.

995
00:57:06,700 --> 00:57:10,600
Apparently in this
jurisdiction, it is not.

996
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,600
In the case of Kurt Cobain,
they should've made them part

997
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,900
Of the release with the
Freedom of Information.

998
00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:17,100
Why they didn't
do that, I dunno.

999
00:57:17,100 --> 00:57:19,200
In hindsight, maybe
they should've.

1000
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,600
We wouldn't be having
this discussion today.

1001
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:27,200
There was a documentary
made about 1997, I believe,

1002
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:28,800
Called "Kurt and Courtney."

1003
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,700
I cooperated with the
producer and director of that,

1004
00:57:31,700 --> 00:57:33,300
Nick Broomfield.

1005
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,800
Tom Grant's
assertion that 1.52 milligrams

1006
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,800
Of heroin per liter of blood
would have incapacitated

1007
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,300
Kurt were discounted
by Doctor Colin Brewer,

1008
00:57:43,300 --> 00:57:46,400
Formerly director at
Westminster Hospital.

1009
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,300
He gave us this color slide
of a patient balancing easily

1010
00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:51,800
On one leg, who had
taken the equivalent

1011
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,800
Of over twice the
amount taken by Kurt.

1012
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,900
The problem is that this
man had taken methadone,

1013
00:57:57,900 --> 00:58:01,800
Not heroin, and he had
swallowed the methadone.

1014
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,500
Methadone is a
pain medication.

1015
00:58:04,500 --> 00:58:07,000
It's also used to
treat heroin addiction,

1016
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,500
And because it's taken orally,
it 's absorbed much slower.

1017
00:58:10,500 --> 00:58:13,700
It takes time to get into
the blood, so it can take

1018
00:58:13,700 --> 00:58:16,200
Up to an hour or perhaps
two before it reaches

1019
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,000
Its highest concentrations.

1020
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,900
Heroin, on the other hand,
injected directly into the vein,

1021
00:58:22,900 --> 00:58:26,000
Is immediately available
to circulation,

1022
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,000
Immediately available
to the brain.

1023
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,000
Comparing oral methadone
to intravenous heroin.

1024
00:58:33,500 --> 00:58:36,800
What's the trade expression,
apples and oranges?

1025
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,600
It's much worse than
apples and oranges.

1026
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,500
It might be peaches and
asparagus that you're comparing.

1027
00:58:41,500 --> 00:58:44,400
I'm surely amazed that a
competent forensic scientist

1028
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,600
Would have made that
kind of comparison.

1029
00:58:53,300 --> 00:58:54,900
Seattle
police reports indicate

1030
00:58:54,900 --> 00:58:58,800
That Kurt Cobain was found
with a shotgun upside down,

1031
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:00,800
With his left hand
grasping the barrel

1032
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,000
In a vise-like grip, known
as a cadaveric spasm.

1033
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,800
Cadaveric spasm is a form
of muscular stiffening

1034
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,200
That only occurs in death.

1035
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,900
This occurrence is indispensable
to forensic investigation,

1036
00:59:13,900 --> 00:59:17,400
As it clearly shows the precise
orientation of the deceased

1037
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,900
At the exact moment of death;

1038
00:59:19,900 --> 00:59:21,900
In this case, Cobain's left hand

1039
00:59:21,900 --> 00:59:25,400
Gripping the barrel upside
down, as he was found.

1040
00:59:26,900 --> 00:59:29,600
This all seemed straightforward,
until you take into account

1041
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:33,000
The shotgun shell was found
to Cobain's left side,

1042
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,800
Opposite of where we'd
expect to find the shell:

1043
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,800
On Cobain's right side.

1044
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,200
The exit chamber is clearly
on Cobain's right side

1045
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,200
If it was fired upside
down, as it was found,

1046
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,900
And as the cadaveric
spasm confirms

1047
00:59:48,900 --> 00:59:51,600
Seattle P.D. explained
the illogical trajectory

1048
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,200
Of the shotgun shell by
concluding that the shotgun

1049
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,800
Was fired right
side up by Cobain,

1050
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,900
The shotgun flipped upside
down, expelling the shell

1051
00:59:59,900 --> 01:00:02,600
To his left, to finally
rest in the position

1052
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,300
That it was found.

1053
01:00:04,300 --> 01:00:07,200
This proposed scenario
is impossible, not only

1054
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:10,500
Because shotguns do not
flip upside down when fired;

1055
01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:12,900
It completely ignores
the cadaveric spasm

1056
01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:16,600
That locks the grip, dictating
the precise orientation

1057
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,700
Of the shotgun when fired.

1058
01:00:18,700 --> 01:00:22,200
In order for the scenario the
Seattle police stated occurred

1059
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,800
Cobain's wrist would
have to bend at an angle

1060
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,800
That is anatomically impossible.

1061
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,200
The cadaveric spasm shows
the precise orientation

1062
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,700
Of Cobain's hand at the
exact moment of death.

1063
01:00:34,700 --> 01:00:37,600
The only way that the shell
could end up in the opposite

1064
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,200
Side of the room is if,
when the shell was expelled,

1065
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,800
Hit an obstruction on
Cobain's right side

1066
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,600
And ricocheted to Cobain's left
side, to land on the jacket.

1067
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:51,800
The crime scene clearly shows
there was no such obstruction,

1068
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,200
Which then puts into question
if Cobain truly was alone

1069
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,500
In the Greenhouse when
the trigger was pulled.

1070
01:00:59,300 --> 01:01:01,800
Kurt
was not suicidal.

1071
01:01:02,300 --> 01:01:03,700
Have you been watchin' TV?

1072
01:01:03,700 --> 01:01:04,800
Readin' the paper?

1073
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,300
They're all saying
that he's been suicidal

1074
01:01:06,300 --> 01:01:08,200
For a long time, and Courtney
said that this overdose,

1075
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:09,600
The one that was
in Rome, she said

1076
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:11,000
That was a suicide attempt.

1077
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,300
That's not true.

1078
01:01:12,300 --> 01:01:14,300
It was Rosemary
Carroll's involvement

1079
01:01:14,300 --> 01:01:17,100
That really pushed me
forward, because if somebody

1080
01:01:17,100 --> 01:01:20,600
In Rosemary Carroll's
position was telling me

1081
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,000
The things she was telling me,

1082
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,900
Then I wasn't off
base, I wasn't crazy,

1083
01:01:26,900 --> 01:01:28,400
I wasn't a lunatic.

1084
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:30,000
She called me a
couple of weeks ago,

1085
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,400
Said Kurt was leaving her and
asked me to find the meanest,

1086
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,900
Most vicious divorce
lawyer I could find.

1087
01:01:34,900 --> 01:01:36,100
She even asked me
if there was any way

1088
01:01:36,100 --> 01:01:37,400
To avoid their prenup.

1089
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:38,900
And she said about
that same time,

1090
01:01:38,900 --> 01:01:41,600
Kurt had called her also
and asked her if she could

1091
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,200
Have Courtney's name
taken outta the will.

1092
01:02:00,100 --> 01:02:02,100
Does it seem strange
that Courtney didn't go

1093
01:02:02,100 --> 01:02:04,400
Up to Seattle, not even
once, to look for him?

1094
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,200
Absolutely.

1095
01:02:06,900 --> 01:02:08,900
When I offered to go up,
she said she couldn't go

1096
01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:12,000
With me because she had some
business down here in L.A.

1097
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,200
She didn't have
any business in L.A.

1098
01:02:14,700 --> 01:02:16,900
What I don't understand
is how you didn't see him

1099
01:02:16,900 --> 01:02:18,900
In the Greenhouse the
first night you were there.

1100
01:02:18,900 --> 01:02:20,400
Wait a minute, I didn't
even know the Greenhouse

1101
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,600
Existed until the day I
heard it on the radio.

1102
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:24,600
But Courtney told
Dylan to check it.

1103
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,400
When he called Courtney at
my house Wednesday night,

1104
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,800
I heard her tell him to
check the Greenhouse.

1105
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,300
A lotta people mock him
for being at the house,

1106
01:02:42,300 --> 01:02:44,100
On the case, looking for Kurt.

1107
01:02:44,100 --> 01:02:47,300
Kurt was lying dead 20 feet
away and he never found him.

1108
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:51,200
What does that say about
his abilities as a P.I?

1109
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,200
I went back on a rainy night.

1110
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,200
He claims it was dark and
just didn't know it was there.

1111
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,500
Nobody told him, Dylan
certainly didn't tell him.

1112
01:02:59,500 --> 01:03:01,800
Dylan must have known
that it was there.

1113
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:03,600
Is there anywhere else?

1114
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:04,900
No.

1115
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,900
So I went and tested
that, and sure enough,

1116
01:03:07,900 --> 01:03:09,800
You really couldn't see
it if you weren't looking

1117
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:11,000
For it specifically.

1118
01:03:28,100 --> 01:03:30,100
I asked Courtney to see the
note when I was in Seattle,

1119
01:03:30,100 --> 01:03:31,600
And she refused.

1120
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:33,600
Courtney apparently
had let Danny Goldberg,

1121
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,200
Her husband, see the
note, but she wouldn't let

1122
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,000
Rosemary see it, so
that mystified her too

1123
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:40,600
And made her more suspicious.

1124
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,600
And it made me more
suspicious, too.

1125
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,800
To hear Courtney's own lawyer,

1126
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,500
Kurt and Courtney's
entertainment lawyer,
Rosemary Carroll,

1127
01:03:50,100 --> 01:03:52,800
The godmother of Frances Bean,

1128
01:03:53,500 --> 01:03:57,100
Somebody that knew them
better than almost anybody,

1129
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,000
Telling Tom that

1130
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,700
They were in the
middle of a divorce,

1131
01:04:04,700 --> 01:04:07,300
That Kurt was drawing
up a new will,

1132
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:10,800
And most importantly,
I think the tape

1133
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:14,400
That really had me reeling,

1134
01:04:15,300 --> 01:04:20,200
Was hearing Rosemary Carroll
looking at the suicide note

1135
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:22,600
And immediately concluding
that it's a forgery.

1136
01:05:02,900 --> 01:05:05,300
I believe Courtney never
thought the public was gonna

1137
01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:07,200
Ever see that note.

1138
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,700
If I hadn't have tricked her
out of a copy of the note,

1139
01:05:09,700 --> 01:05:11,500
They wouldn't have seen it.

1140
01:05:12,300 --> 01:05:14,100
I heard you read the
note on TV the other day

1141
01:05:14,100 --> 01:05:16,700
And I'm just a little
confused about something.

1142
01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:21,000
It sounded like the note
said, "I'm lying on the bed."

1143
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,700
If Kurt was lying in the
bed when he wrote the note,

1144
01:05:23,700 --> 01:05:26,500
Why was the bed so neat when
I came here the other night?

1145
01:05:26,500 --> 01:05:28,800
It looked like nobody
had been on the bed.

1146
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:31,800
I was lying on the bed,
recording the message

1147
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:33,600
For Kurt's fans.

1148
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,400
Are you sure
that's what you said?

1149
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,900
Because I was under the
impression that Kurt was lying

1150
01:05:38,900 --> 01:05:40,000
On the bed.

1151
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,500
Look, I'll show you, okay?

1152
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:48,600
It's just a copy, but the
cops have the original.

1153
01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:55,000
I can't read this
without my glasses.

1154
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:56,700
I'm gonna take it down, make
a copy in the fax machine.

1155
01:05:56,700 --> 01:05:58,400
I'll read it later.

1156
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,200
Yeah, sure.

1157
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:17,500
That I never
thought to look at at all,

1158
01:06:17,500 --> 01:06:20,400
Quite honestly,
until last night.

1159
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,400
She left it after she
came over to my house,

1160
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:23,900
The night of the 6th.

1161
01:06:23,900 --> 01:06:26,600
Rosemary Carroll was working
with me behind the scenes,

1162
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:29,500
Privately, giving
me information.

1163
01:06:29,500 --> 01:06:32,200
She did it out of
a good conscience.

1164
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:33,400
What do
you think that is?

1165
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:14,400
conference on your phone,

1166
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:16,500
And that way you could...

1167
01:08:16,500 --> 01:08:17,900
You've promised
me things before,

1168
01:08:17,900 --> 01:08:19,800
And it didn't come through.

1169
01:08:21,300 --> 01:08:23,600
Almost immediately
after Kurt Cobain's death

1170
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:26,400
Was announced in the
media, this phenomenon

1171
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,200
Of copycat suicides began.

1172
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,500
Kids started killing themselves:

1173
01:08:31,500 --> 01:08:34,300
Kurt Cobain fans, Nirvana fans.

1174
01:08:34,300 --> 01:08:36,800
This was happening
all around the world.

1175
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:41,200
Now I'm a dad
myself, and it's just,

1176
01:08:42,700 --> 01:08:43,900
Absolutely breaks my heart.

1177
01:08:43,900 --> 01:08:45,700
I talk to a lotta the families.

1178
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:50,200
When you read their suicide
notes and read their journals,

1179
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:54,000
It really drove
home the importance

1180
01:08:55,100 --> 01:08:57,100
Of Kurt on this generation.

1181
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:01,600
The thought of losing
a child is just horrific.

1182
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,900
I was relieved that I was
gonna go forward with this,

1183
01:09:04,900 --> 01:09:06,900
Because I thought,
"Maybe it'll help stop"

1184
01:09:06,900 --> 01:09:08,900
"Some of these
copycat suicides."

1185
01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:35,100
That would help
too, to be analyzed.

1186
01:09:35,100 --> 01:09:38,600
We could determine whether
Kurt wrote that whole thing.

1187
01:09:39,500 --> 01:09:42,100
The fact that the
handwriting looks,

1188
01:09:42,100 --> 01:09:45,300
To my untrained eye,
different at the bottom

1189
01:09:45,300 --> 01:09:47,900
Of that note than it
does during the body

1190
01:09:47,900 --> 01:09:50,300
It certainly does suggest
that putting that note

1191
01:09:50,300 --> 01:09:53,300
In the hands of a questioned
documents examiner,

1192
01:09:53,300 --> 01:09:57,500
Somebody who really understands
a lot more than we do

1193
01:09:57,500 --> 01:09:59,900
As cops, that would
be a good idea.

1194
01:09:59,900 --> 01:10:02,900
A forensic document
examiner examines documents

1195
01:10:02,900 --> 01:10:05,500
For the purposes
of authenticity.

1196
01:10:05,500 --> 01:10:08,400
I examined a handwriting
sample that was found

1197
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:12,300
In Courtney Love's backpack,
and it was a practice sheet

1198
01:10:12,300 --> 01:10:15,600
Of different letters,
the alphabet.

1199
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:20,300
I examined that in comparison
to the suicide note.

1200
01:10:20,300 --> 01:10:22,900
What I did find interesting
about the practice sheet is

1201
01:10:22,900 --> 01:10:26,100
That it did have
letter combinations
and specific letters

1202
01:10:26,100 --> 01:10:31,100
That are found in the bottom
portion of the suicide note.

1203
01:10:31,100 --> 01:10:34,700
It is possible that somebody
else with some skill

1204
01:10:34,700 --> 01:10:38,200
Could indeed
imitate his writing,

1205
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:40,700
Especially those last few lines.

1206
01:10:43,300 --> 01:10:46,300
One of the, perhaps
surprising, characteristics

1207
01:10:46,300 --> 01:10:50,800
Of this note is that the
largest section of the note,

1208
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,100
Or the initial part, talks so
much about his relationship

1209
01:10:54,100 --> 01:10:58,200
To music, and it's only the
very small part of the note,

1210
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:02,200
The last four lines, that
talks about his relationship

1211
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:03,900
To his family.

1212
01:11:04,700 --> 01:11:07,500
But there's another
linguistically interesting thing

1213
01:11:07,500 --> 01:11:12,500
About the second or final
four lines of the note,

1214
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:18,200
And that is that that is what
most of us would consider

1215
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,500
A stereotypical suicide note.

1216
01:11:21,900 --> 01:11:25,400
"I love you, someone will
be better off without me,"

1217
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:27,200
"Keep moving forward."

1218
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:31,900
Those are the kinds of
things we expect to find

1219
01:11:31,900 --> 01:11:36,300
In suicide notes,
or even in overkill,

1220
01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:40,700
To make it very stereotypical
so that people couldn't miss

1221
01:11:40,700 --> 01:11:41,800
What it was.

1222
01:11:48,300 --> 01:11:50,900
There are a lotta questions
I have for Dylan and Cali,

1223
01:11:50,900 --> 01:11:53,300
Especially Cali, who spent
more time here at the house

1224
01:11:53,300 --> 01:11:55,700
Than anybody last week.

1225
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:00,300
Cali is, he just
left for rehab.

1226
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,200
He's in El Paso, or

1227
01:12:04,300 --> 01:12:06,500
Georgia, I think.

1228
01:12:08,300 --> 01:12:11,700
No no no, he's in
L.A. with friends.

1229
01:12:15,700 --> 01:12:17,500
I'll get Dylan over here.

1230
01:12:18,500 --> 01:12:21,600
After probably a half an
hour or so, I walked out

1231
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:24,700
And I asked, "Is Dylan here yet?"

1232
01:12:24,700 --> 01:12:27,400
"I haven't seen him," and I
just assumed that somebody

1233
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,500
Would let me know
when he showed up.

1234
01:12:29,500 --> 01:12:32,100
They said, "Yeah, he's
upstairs with Courtney,"

1235
01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:33,500
Which I thought was strange.

1236
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:35,000
He was supposed to be
coming in the house to talk

1237
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:39,200
To me, not go upstairs and do
a pre-interview with Courtney.

1238
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:41,300
So there's just been a
couple things that have been

1239
01:12:41,300 --> 01:12:43,900
Eating at me in the last few
weeks, and I wanted to sit here

1240
01:12:43,900 --> 01:12:46,000
And I wanted to talk
to you about them.

1241
01:12:48,900 --> 01:12:50,300
Did you just shoot up?

1242
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:52,200
Hm?

1243
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:54,400
Did you just shoot up?

1244
01:12:56,300 --> 01:12:57,100
Yeah.

1245
01:12:57,100 --> 01:12:58,100
What?

1246
01:12:58,100 --> 01:12:59,600
Yes.

1247
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:01,100
Why did you do that?

1248
01:13:01,100 --> 01:13:02,000
I told you I was coming
up here, I told you we had

1249
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:03,900
To have this conversation.

1250
01:13:04,700 --> 01:13:05,200
Dylan.

1251
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:06,700
Hm?

1252
01:13:06,700 --> 01:13:08,900
I told you we had
to have this conversation.

1253
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:10,600
I'm ready.

1254
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:11,800
You're ready?

1255
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:13,000
- Mm hmm.
- You're not ready.

1256
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:14,400
I felt, "Why
would Courtney do this?"

1257
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,100
She knew I had some serious
questions to ask him,

1258
01:13:17,100 --> 01:13:20,200
And she's sending him down
to me in a drugged state

1259
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:22,900
Of mind, where he
could hardly talk?

1260
01:13:22,900 --> 01:13:25,100
You check the front
door or the back?

1261
01:13:25,100 --> 01:13:26,900
Did you check the front
door or the back door?

1262
01:13:26,900 --> 01:13:27,600
Yeah.

1263
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:28,700
Which door?

1264
01:13:28,700 --> 01:13:30,000
Both.

1265
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,000
Both doors. Did
you check the side door?

1266
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:32,100
No.

1267
01:13:32,100 --> 01:13:33,100
You didn't
go to the side door?

1268
01:13:33,100 --> 01:13:34,400
I don't remember.

1269
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:35,300
You don't remember.

1270
01:13:35,300 --> 01:13:36,900
Did you go to the Greenhouse?

1271
01:13:36,900 --> 01:13:38,100
No.

1272
01:13:38,100 --> 01:13:39,500
You didn't go
to the Greenhouse?

1273
01:13:39,500 --> 01:13:42,500
Dylan, Dylan, I
wanna talk about...

1274
01:13:43,900 --> 01:13:46,100
I wanna talk about
the Greenhouse.

1275
01:13:48,700 --> 01:13:50,000
Dylan.

1276
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,000
Dylan was a heroin addict,

1277
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,700
And he needed a
source for heroin.

1278
01:13:54,700 --> 01:13:59,000
Once Kurt Cobain was dead, his
source became Courtney Love.

1279
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:01,700
His loyalty became
Courtney Love.

1280
01:14:02,700 --> 01:14:04,000
He was very dependent on her.

1281
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,300
We've since learned
that she paid his rent

1282
01:14:06,300 --> 01:14:08,800
For many, many years,
supplied the money

1283
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,300
For his heroin, and almost
everybody around Kurt.

1284
01:14:12,300 --> 01:14:13,600
They were dependent on Courtney,

1285
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:15,500
They were dependent
on Courtney's money.

1286
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,500
It's a waste of
time, waste of time.

1287
01:14:30,900 --> 01:14:33,900
I felt it was my duty
to notify my client

1288
01:14:33,900 --> 01:14:36,300
That I was starting to
dig into some directions

1289
01:14:36,300 --> 01:14:39,300
That she may not want
me to be looking into,

1290
01:14:39,300 --> 01:14:42,000
But I was determined
to do it and I thought

1291
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:45,700
That she deserved to know
that I was going to do this.

1292
01:14:47,700 --> 01:14:50,300
She got the message,
I'm sure, from that.

1293
01:14:50,300 --> 01:14:52,700
I was insinuating
that I suspected her

1294
01:14:52,700 --> 01:14:54,600
Of being involved in this.

1295
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:57,400
A few days after
that letter was sent,

1296
01:14:57,400 --> 01:14:59,600
I got a phone call
from Courtney.

1297
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:02,900
She wasn't livid, she
wasn't even angry.

1298
01:15:02,900 --> 01:15:05,200
She didn't mention
the letter, in fact.

1299
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,700
I basically said I'm going to
continue with my investigation

1300
01:15:08,700 --> 01:15:11,400
With or without
your cooperation.

1301
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:53,400
Here's all you have
to do to bring this

1302
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:55,500
To a quick end and solve
all of your problems.

1303
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:05,600
Yes, hi, I'm looking for Kurt.

1304
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:08,300
Hello?

1305
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:24,500
Hello?

1306
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:27,600
Yes, hi. Someone's gonna get
really fucked up over there

1307
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:29,200
If I don't talk to Kurt.

1308
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:34,100
Hi, this is Julie Bernstein.

1309
01:18:34,100 --> 01:18:36,600
I really need to speak
to my client Kurt.

1310
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:38,000
Get him on the fucking phone!

1311
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:53,900
Yes, yeah, thank you.

1312
01:18:53,900 --> 01:18:55,500
No, no problem.

1313
01:18:56,300 --> 01:18:57,700
Yeah, Delta's fine.

1314
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:12,700
with the 20th
anniversary approaching,

1315
01:21:12,700 --> 01:21:15,600
Detective Mike Ciesynski
re-examined the case files

1316
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:18,700
Of an assignment early
in his fledgling career,

1317
01:21:18,700 --> 01:21:22,100
The investigation into
the death of Kurt Cobain.

1318
01:21:22,500 --> 01:21:24,500
You can never really
realize what type

1319
01:21:24,500 --> 01:21:26,600
Of conspiracy theorists
are gonna come out

1320
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:28,100
Of the woodwork.

1321
01:21:28,100 --> 01:21:31,700
The amount of heroin that
he injected was 10 times

1322
01:21:31,700 --> 01:21:35,400
What, normally,
anybody would've taken,

1323
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:37,200
Even a heavy heroin user.

1324
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:41,700
I believe he gave himself a
fatal dose of black tar heroin.

1325
01:21:51,300 --> 01:21:53,700
Detective Mike
Ciesynski found four rolls

1326
01:21:53,700 --> 01:21:56,500
Of undeveloped
crime scene photos.

1327
01:21:56,500 --> 01:21:58,800
Two of those photos
were released,

1328
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,100
Taken the day his
body was found.

1329
01:22:01,100 --> 01:22:04,300
In hindsight, I think I
would've developed the film.

1330
01:22:04,300 --> 01:22:05,700
Did you
find anything different

1331
01:22:05,700 --> 01:22:08,100
That made you believe
it's anything but suicide?

1332
01:22:08,100 --> 01:22:09,500
No, nothing.

1333
01:22:09,500 --> 01:22:11,900
What are people gonna
gain from seeing pictures

1334
01:22:11,900 --> 01:22:13,100
Of Kurt Cobain?

1335
01:22:13,100 --> 01:22:15,000
How is that gonna
benefit anybody?

1336
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,000
It wasn't gonna change
my decision that
this was a suicide,

1337
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,400
And actually I'm the one who
makes the decision finally,

1338
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:21,800
Do we go forward or not.

1339
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:25,200
There is never one item
that I said definitely

1340
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:27,500
That this actually
was suicide, but um...

1341
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:47,100
Any re-examination
should not even be actively

1342
01:22:47,100 --> 01:22:50,600
Participated in by the
Seattle Police Department.

1343
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:54,300
To expect them to conduct
an objective, detached,

1344
01:22:54,300 --> 01:22:57,100
Unbiased investigation,
come back 20 years later

1345
01:22:57,100 --> 01:22:59,600
And say, "Hey man, we blew it?"

1346
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:03,600
It flies in the face
of common sense.

1347
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:07,700
The Kurt Cobain death
demands a re-opening

1348
01:23:07,700 --> 01:23:12,200
By an objective set of experts,
and until that is done,

1349
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:15,200
Then one cannot feel
comfortable in saying

1350
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:20,100
That Kurt Cobain's death
was a clear-cut suicide.

1351
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:29,100
For me, the most
compelling piece of evidence

1352
01:23:29,100 --> 01:23:32,800
That convinces me,
almost to a certainty,

1353
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,900
That Kurt was murdered, was the
level of heroin in his body.

1354
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:40,100
There's never been a
documented case in the history

1355
01:23:40,100 --> 01:23:43,100
Of law enforcement where
somebody could have

1356
01:23:43,100 --> 01:23:46,900
The level of heroin in
their body that Kurt did,

1357
01:23:46,900 --> 01:23:51,600
Still remain conscious,
and still led to a suicide.

1358
01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:56,100
We talked to an FBI
expert, and he said,

1359
01:23:56,100 --> 01:23:58,400
"If you wanna get
away with murder,"

1360
01:23:59,100 --> 01:24:00,900
"You kill a junkie."

1361
01:24:00,900 --> 01:24:05,900
It's very easy to
make a murder look

1362
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:09,200
Look like an accidental
overdose or a suicide.

1363
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:14,200
It's the perfect crime, and
it happens all the time.

1364
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:20,500
We know that Kurt and Courtney
had a prenuptial agreement.

1365
01:24:21,300 --> 01:24:23,200
They were in the process
of getting a divorce.

1366
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,800
This was confirmed,
they were divorcing.

1367
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:27,600
He was leaving her.

1368
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:30,200
If the divorce had gone through,

1369
01:24:30,900 --> 01:24:34,000
She would've received
a very small settlement

1370
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:36,400
As a result of the
prenuptial agreement.

1371
01:24:36,900 --> 01:24:40,800
When he died, she
co-inherited an estate worth

1372
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,000
Possibly more than a billion
dollars in future royalties.

1373
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:47,200
Police immediately
look at motive.

1374
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:48,700
Here's the motive.

1375
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:54,400
No matter what anybody
believes, this happened

1376
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:58,300
Far too quickly for the kinds
of things to be accomplished

1377
01:24:58,300 --> 01:25:03,000
That need to be done in this
kind of death investigation.

1378
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:07,400
We should, in fact, have
taken steps to study patterns

1379
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:12,400
Involved in the behavior of key
individuals who had a motive

1380
01:25:13,300 --> 01:25:15,600
To see Kurt Cobain dead.

1381
01:25:16,500 --> 01:25:20,100
This would be in fact, a
classical example for how

1382
01:25:20,100 --> 01:25:22,800
An investigation
should not be done.

1383
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:26,700
If, in fact, Kurt Cobain
was murdered, as opposed

1384
01:25:26,700 --> 01:25:30,700
To having committed
suicide, and it was possible

1385
01:25:30,700 --> 01:25:34,100
To learn that, shame on
us for not doing that.

1386
01:25:34,100 --> 01:25:36,900
That was, in fact,
our responsibility.

1387
01:25:36,900 --> 01:25:40,000
Should the case be re-opened?

1388
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:42,800
My answer is unequivocally,
unhesitatingly,

1389
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:45,400
"Yes, the case
should be re-opened."

1390
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:47,200
It's about right and wrong.

1391
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:51,400
It's about honor,
it's about ethics.

1392
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:53,200
If we didn't get it
right the first time,

1393
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:56,000
We damn well better get
it right the second time.

1394
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:57,900
And I would tell you right
now that if I were the

1395
01:25:57,900 --> 01:25:58,000
Chief today, I would
re-open this investigation.
And I would tell you right
now that if I were the

1396
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:01,300
Chief today, I would
re-open this investigation.