Criticisms

Pattern about defectors: they're the result of social media beefs of some kind. Jared T Swift being the first I am aware of. And women/white-knights are often involved.
http://archive.is/FbMOe
http://archive.is/Ygp44
http://archive.is/tQZue
http://archive.is/K81N2

I say this not just because the nature of their grievances heavily imply social media conflict by grousing about shitty sperg behavior, but also that the guys in question were heavily into social media

The altright is the only game on the market as far as insurgent right wing movements or internet movements in general. None of the others from the manosphere, to the alt-lite, to gamergate, to woke centrists have had the same impact. So now the altright is a big target for people to "dress down"
It's also extremely easy to attack something because it's always doing something wrong or missing something or not doing enough

There are a lot of shit tier people on the altright. Whites who would be whiggers if they were less racist (and often get called whigger nationalists by other altrighters) but those people would have joined any white identitarian movement and many are from WN 1.0 or at least fit the mold of that very well. Reclusive, not persuasive, low status. The altright's real sin is not realizing the problem these people would pose and keeping them out (if that is even possible). And the AR has been decent about keeping them away from real positions, they still carry an outsized voice and the AR doesnt do a good enough job pf promoting its best and smartest to counterbalance this.

But also these whignats are among the first to diss the altright for not being militant or active enough (while not being so)

Usually the people making these criticisms are not remarkable and have no special insight, as such the basic gestalt of their criticism is not disputed. But that often is not enough for them, which is telling. It's rarely just about criticism, it's all too often an excuse to grouse about the real and perceived failings of people they dislike or want to dislike. Because the critics are all too often the kind of people who give high conflict personalities a bad name and are very often involved in drama. And like all petty drama it engulfs their corner and spirals into something bigger. And once the movement no longer boosts their serotonin it's personal

And while I am saying a lot of this is motivated by personal animosity, that does not mean it is wrong but often coming from a place that only a thorough view of the person in question can sufficiently parse out.

To give an example: twitter user Orthomomalist. Hates the altright. Claims to do so for it being "socialist euroshit" but his actions show otherwise when he is in the mentions of socialist leftists and praises the oathkeepers for expelling then over white identity politics (not economics)
http://archive.is/cnWEm
http://archive.is/t3h6O
http://archive.is/BIxZm

I think a lot of it is things not living up to expectations, so "dropped at the first sign of trouble". And people are injecting what they think the issue is into this context. Which means some of it is correct obviously. But some, like the people who always come out to bash Spencer, are just opportunists. FWIW it's not that Spencer isn't above criticism, but the people I am thinking of do just lie about him or focus on petty shit.
However it is worth pointing out that almost nobody who wants to drop the altright made the altright what it is, or would make anything to fill the void if it went away. That's kind of important, even if you think the altright isnt going anywhere, it at least achieved some bare minimum.
they have a point that we should stick to being an 'idea vanguard' rather than a total movement
part of a broader rightwing push
that's what Jews and Postmodernists did
and neocons
but we're doing better than other online movements
the alt-lite is bigger but use our second hand stuff. But thinks it can talk down to us with the same cliched crap that the term cuckservatism was meant to mock
the woke centrists have done nothing

Spencer talking about the USS liberty

the dummies alienate people

https://curiouscat.me/Hubris2/post/159372054?t=1496708723
uh

High Confict
http://archive.is/fcwcm

Response to me:

I was one of the people that got "bulldozed" and brought up the vanguard label. The main point I was trying to make was that there are positive things going on. Yea, we haven't gotten an ethno state yet, that is true.....

1. Bashing Enoch and Spencer is low hanging fruit imo. Go ahead and do it if you must, but unless it is constructive, and done in a way that they will consider the feedback you are not accomplishing anything. I wouldn't listen to someone just calling me a retard over and over again.

2. There is no plan b at this time. The rest of the "Right wing" if you can even call it that, in America has a long way to go, and is even worse off than the Alt Right.

3. All of the criticisms of the Alt Right made on this show should really be leveled at Whites and liberal democracies in general.Apathy, weakness, destitution, are all problems the entire demographic faces.

4. If you are going to get involved in something like this be mentally prepared to have your personal information put out there. Some people are better off just staying behind the scenes imo, and donating to people already out there, or participating in private groups.

You will notice there was a lot of projection. Huniepot Studios decries the meming, sloth, and needlessly confrontational style of many social media hounds... but they are that. Their whole brand seemed to be embracing the grime, irony, and belligerence at first

Other responses: Shawn is totally wrong regarding "Irish and Italians weren't considered white." There are numerous examples of famous Irishmen and Italians that fought for US independence. Simply google "famous Irish/Italians of American Revolution". Irish and Italians were always considered white. The ethnic animus they received was due to them being Catholic, poor, and the Italians having large concentrations of literal Anarchists immigrating among them.

Irish:
Charles Carroll of Carrollton (signed Declaration of Independence; 1st US Senator from Maryland)
Gustavus Conyngham
Henry Knox
Richard Montgomery
Stephen Moylan
Hercules Mulligan
Timothy Murphy
John Stark
John Sullivan

Italian:
William Paca (signed Declaration of Independence)
Pascal DeAngelis
LT James Bracco
COL Richard Tagliaferro
COL Cosmo De Medici
COL Lewis Nicola

Shawn BTFO himself again when claiming Paul Town and Jared Taylor Swift's trolling of Olivia Nuzzi put Alt-Right on the map. WRONG. Look at google analytics for "alt right/alt-right" May 26, 2016 when the Nuzzi article was published—nothing.

And nothing until Hillary's speech on August 26, 2016 that Shawn ALSO claims was born of the Nuzzi-troll tree. WRONG.

What happened a week or so before that Hillary speech on, say, August 17? Hmmm. Oh, I remember. Trump hired a new chairman for his campaign:

Steve Bannon, firebrand head of BREITBART—"a platform for the Alt-Right."

Geez, Shawn. You're a fucking mess. This is what happens when you believe you're far smarter than you actually are. Now go clean your room.

Me: Lots of people were trolling. Ricky Vaughn made it onto MIT's influencers from his antics too. Which came before the Nuzzi article.

Another (participant): My final thoughts as a participant: Whites already lost the grand campaign before we were even born. That is why we have trouble recruiting, and have no resources. It is important to understand this because it tempers your expectations. No one wants to join the losing side, let alone a side that has already lost. We have two choices left, survive or die off. This is why I am appreciative of anyone who puts themselves out there, even if they are not perfect. This is why I am willing to let Spencer's dorkiness slide, and am not hung up on Enoch's Jewish wife.

I continue to participate because I truly believe that White people, reactionaries, and so on, will eventually be forced to cooperate in defending ourselves in my life time.

There is a lot of issues with the Alt Right, and Shawn and especially Kwa bring up decent points,  but from what I have seen there is no Calvary on the way. The rest of the "Right Wing" in America is pathetic imo, even worse than the Alt Right. Every year that goes by just increases the incline of the hill we have to go up, which makes matters worse.         If something better comes along of course I will give it a go, but until then....

Another Participant: 1.) Everyone in the chat was an amalgamation of right and wrong about the direction of the altright. Shawn is right about needing a higher quality of leader, if the altright wants to go anywhere or obtain real power, however Jimmy is not incorrect in saying the movement and ideas needing to metastasize so it can find better people. I don't know if the altright will keep attracting low IQ people who think Dylan Roof memes and oven memes are good optics, or if it will attract more serious people. Perhaps the ideas won't gain traction and the altright will forever be known as the KKK for the digital age.

2.) Taking over the republican party with Tucker Carlson, Ann Coulter, and Mark Steyn types is a lot more sensible than trying to form your own political party or movement. America would have to be drastically post-white for viable, explicitly, white political parties to form. The republican party is always thrilled when young people join, so joining them and running for office or recruiting people with similar ideals would pay off 100 fold more than joining IE or the Traditional Workers party. The republican party and the politics of it are much easier to mutate than most people would think, but you should always be wary of the time-horizons, something good that you do, might not pay off for another 2 or 20 years. Yes, everyone wants immediate action, and it might feel pointless to chug along without results, but it's a solid path towards actual power instead of futzing off and starting your own movement, which will accomplish less than nothing and will probably end up doing more harm than good. I don't want to say too much, but my local congressman is one of those Ann Coulter, Tucker Carlson types, and he's probably going to run for senate and win. Change of this scale takes time and effort, the adhd riddled meme-rs might not like it, but that's the current paradigm till a black swan shakes up the landscape. I attempted to ask Shawn why he didn't just stay in the republican party for Michigan and try to internally morph some of the local politics into being friendly towards some altright ideals. His response was that he was afraid of being seen with pics of Spencer and Damingo, I didn't realize that his time in those movements pre-dated his time in the GOP.

Me: The irony I see is that a lot of the people who get mad at the memers because they don't see enough irl action are also people in need of the same serotonin boost as the memers. You can tell because they seem to find drama every other week.

And it has been a while since I last saw an oven meme. Granted this is all subjective perception

I agree with you by the way and it was interesting that the gestalt of Shawn's criticisms werent protested against on any qualitative grounds, it seemed to me people disagreed with how pressing he viewed the matter.

For example, I definitely agree a lot of the altright girls are just thots who should have kids if they really care about these issues. And that anyone who donates to their patreons when they have no good content to provide is a simp.

But I also never encounter these people outside of others complaining about them so I dont think they're a sin you can hurl at everyone who uses the label altright which many are quick to do.

him: >You can tell because they seem to find drama every other week.

Expand on that. Otherwise, I agree. If the altright doesn't attempt political change or cultural change(to an extent, this could extend to podcasts and that sort of thing), then its pointless. I tried to agree with Shawn that people should get involved in campaigns or try to internally morph their political parties to be friendly towards some of the ideals the altright has. When I told him that I knocked on doors for a candidate I found useful(Trump) he told me I should be waking people up to the JQ, otherwise I was just wasting everyone's time. I tried to respond that the process takes time and even waking people up to demographic displacement takes time. Throwing the JQ immediately at people seems like introducing differential equations when you just taught people multiplication tables a week ago.

me again: That is actually a good example of the "we need action now" mindset. Expecting you to go right to the JQ no matter how obviously people are primed to resist that narrative immediately. Lots of people who do that exist in the altright and they do the most damage IMHO.

What I am referring to with the drama thing is that people ultimately pick their own environment in a lot of ways. High conflict personalities find conflict and never really recognize the common element is them. And the people dissatisfied with the altright's progress (which is still more than other attempted insurgent internet movements from the manosphere to the woke centrists to the alt-lite) tend to have high conflict personalities in my opinion.

As much as I enjoy Huniepot Studios I am sort of surprised they are surprised they find themselves dealing with the grime a lot. When they first showed up I assumed they were embracing this as their brand

Another Participant: I cannot disagree with you for pushing self improvement. Who cannot use some improvement in their life? The answer is no one. You are absolutely right that any self improvement that happens is pretty sure to automatically benefit any "community" that person is apart of too, so it is a win/win. Shawn is absolutely right that success, and aesthetics draws people in...

Also, I agree that the Alt Right and its "sister" movements needs to move beyond memes. Professionalize, and institution creation should be where we spend our resources right now. This is where I disagree with Shawn's success metrics of political elections wins. Political races are expensive above a local level, and any resources we do have would be better spent developing tech platforms and actual brick and mortar presence.

As for the degenerates, and single minded people, police them when you can, ignore them when you cannot is my take.

Another: BTW, I agreed with you more than Shawn in the video, and I would consider myself as a part of the movement as well. The point I was trying to make is that people become too obsessed with the ideas of the movement itself instead of fixing/improving their own lives. Shawn's criticisms would mostly solve themselves if the quality of the people in the alt-right increased. I disagree with Shawn in the assumption that this is impossible, but I am certain there are many people that will refuse to change and are very degenerate.

I have people on the alt-right that are very normal and are pursuing good lives, but Shawn is correct that there a lot of people just in it for memes and giggles. You would be surprised the amount of people who are closeted nihilists in the alt-right.

Case in point, self-improvement would probably lead to fixing Shawn's problems naturally, but I think our best case scenario is to return to a wide range of thought, instead of a unified message

Another: Fair enough, but you get what you are looking for. You wanna spend significant portions of your time on platforms like twitter and twitch? Guess what you are going to see.... Oven memes. Where I go in the "movement" my experiences are not focused on this stuff. It is arguing in bad faith when you go to where the grime is, and use that as the only examples of framework.

There comes a point where it becomes apparent that people are not even trying to help themselves. My advice to someone like Hubris would be to step away from twitter for a couple weeks and try to find other ways of getting positive feedback in ones life.

For people who push self improvement I am honestly surprised at the lack of advice being sent in Shawn's direction. It is quite obvious he is upset, and is hiding much of it behind internet level irony. That shit is destructive.