FurbyFubar
2 hours ago
(edited)
The Wordle strategy of starting with "Siren, Octal, Dumpy" that I saw mentioned on a youtube channel I follow just nerd sniped me hard. The TL;DR is that I now think "Crape, Doily, Shunt" are three better opening guesses, especially for Dordle. Read on to find out why.

Since you have to find two words using one set of guesses in Dordle this mean that making use of the first few guesses to make progress of finding most letters in both words is even more important than in Wordle. So after hearing about starting with guesses of "Siren, Octal, Dumpy" I tried it out, and it very much increased my Dordle win rate. But that strategy was based on the frequency of the letters in English as a whole, and that got me thinking, wouldn't checking how common letters were the list of allowed answers be much more relevant? That's not the same list as the list of allowed five letter words to *guess*, so it's not just the same thing as limiting the dictionary to five letter words. This is because it would be frustrating to play if the answer was too often words they've never heard of.

So if I assume that I always want to use my first three guesses to find as many letters as possible, (if the first two guesses hasn't found all five letters), then optimizing the first word to have the most common letters isn't needed. I still optimize primarily on finding as many letters as possible, so that means finding three words using the 15 most common letters. But then I want to optimize those possible guesses on finding three words that will give an as high average for number of green squares found with those words. So I set to writing a quick and dirty JavaScript.

The first thing I did was count the number of times each letter was in the 2315 words allowed to be the randomly picked answers. I counted both for that letter in any position, and for that letter in each of the five positions. I found that if you're going to use just two words to guess, then "Siren, Octal" is not the correct way to go for this dictionary, even if we ignore finding green letters. The 10 most common letters in allowed answers are ACEILNORST. The word "Orate" contains all the 5 most common letters, but that leaves CILNS as letters 6-10 and that doesn't anagram to a word. Hang on, "orate" is the five most common letters, that doesn't have an S in it? Aren't plural forms of nouns allowed, so wouldn't S shoot up to near the top? Well, no. The game allows plural forms for guesses, but not for the answers! So for example, the word "Books" can never be the answer in Dordle. In fact, only 36 out of 2315 allowed answers end in an S! (This made me think my code was buggy, but the count tool in my text editor confirmed this.)

But since I was looking for three starting words to guess, what's more relevant for that search is that the fifteen most common letters in possible answers are: ACDEHILNOPRSTUY. Wordsmith's Internet Anagram Server gave me a list of 3223 triples of five-letter words that use all of these letters. https://new.wordsmith.org/anagram/ Yes, it's possible that Wordsmith uses a slightly different dictionary than the allowed guesses, but I decided to not worry about it.

I then ran all those triples through my script and counted how many green squares each triple would result in when run against every possible answer. The winning triple was "Crape, Doily, Shunt".

I then checked for the number of green letters given by each of those words, and got back that they should be guessed in the order "Crape, Doily, Shunt", the same order I randomly got them in first. But then I realized that if I know I'll use three words to search for letters *unless* the first two words got all five letters of the answer, then I want to optimize for doing this instead, so I searched for those words giving yellow or green squares. And a bit annoyingly the correct order for them was still "Crape, Doily, Shunt".

It's also worth noting that while Crape, Doily, and Shunt are all legal guesses, only Shunt can ever be the correct answer.

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Hekili
10 hours ago
(+1)
In Free Dordle, where I can play more, I created a "house rule" that, after successfully finding the words in one Dordle, you must use both of those words for your first two words in the next.  I play to "chain" Dordles together, and this has an impact on difficulty.

For example, if I guessed correctly that the words were TIDAL & DAILY, using those two words to start my next Dordle could be more disadvantageous than a combination like STONE & GUARD, because the first pairing has 6 unique letters while the second pairing has 10.  (However, TIDAL & DAILY might not be that bad, if the combination helps identify the positioning of T, I, D, and/or A.)

Generally, the result is an easy word combo with many common letters becomes a disadvantage for your next game, while a hard word combo might help rule in/out more letters.

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Jez Swanson
2 hours ago
That's a fun variation!

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stuartpb
12 hours ago
Could you bring back the words for each line for sharing games from "free dordle" mode (where there's no need to avoid spoilers)?

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Jez Swanson
a day ago
(+2)
I came across this game, assuming it would be a one-off project and love how every time I visit it something new is added! I love all of the changes so far, getting rid of the gradients and the way they shift when you solve one word, and the idea of a daily dordle is very fun! Nice one :)

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Apteryx
a day ago
Liking the update with the Daily dordle

However, though you should know that the update has made it so I can't see all the letters below the dordle as they get cut off, possibly due to wrapping.
Have a row of Q through I, then a Row of O & P, a row of A through K, and then can just see the tops of L and an empty box.

Am in Firefox, on windows 10, in case that matters

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main_gi
2 days ago
(-2)
come on really, I really liked the gradient to represent 'half black half green' for example, and now it's just two solid colors :(((( lol

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NARFNra
2 days ago
(+1)
This is an interesting little tool, I like the additional strategy of the double game. For those curious, you can see what the words were when you fail by clicking "share"

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grelb
2 days ago
(edited)

Can it please tell me what the words were when you fail

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NARFNra
2 days ago
(+1)
You can see what they are if you click "share", it'll come up like this.


Dordle X&4/7 SKIMP&EARTH

⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟨🟨🟨⬜🟨 TRACE

⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟨⬜🟨🟨🟨 ALERT

⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟨⬜🟨 EATER

⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 EARTH

⬜⬜🟩⬜⬜ ⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛ OUIJA

🟩🟨🟩⬜⬜ ⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛ SPITS

🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜ ⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛ SKINK

zaratustra.itch.io/dordle

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s9menine
2 days ago
(+2)
If you click the share button at the results screen, it shows you the answer.

Unsolicited tip: when one word is mostly green, you can try focusing on the other word and hopefully it’ll give you more clues!

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robotgryphon
2 days ago
Keyboard input support?

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TabbbyWright
a day ago
(+1)
It has keyboard input support! If it’s not working for you, click on the board (not the keyboard that’s built into the game) and it should work? That’s what I’ve always done and I’ve been using my keyboard exclusively for this.

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Viva-Bee
2 days ago
(edited)
(+2)
This is very fun! Minor critique, I keep accidentally hitting reset when I mean to hit backspace (playing on mobile), which is frustrating.

Larger critique, I had one round where I believe one of the answer words was g*psy. Many people aren't aware because its casual usage, but that word is actually a racial slur, and does not belong in a fun word game like this. If it could be removed from the list of acceptable words, or at the very least the list of possible answers, that would be for the best.

Thanks so much for the super fun game! It's a really clever spin on the Wordle format.

(Edit, I opened the game to run it again and was delighted to see my first critique was fixed! It's wonderful to see the game continuously improving like this.)

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Hekili
2 days ago
Great game.  I think part of what makes Wordle popular is that the answers aren't shared and other people can compare themselves to the same set.  Would be good to have a seed URL that shows people your hits/near misses/mistakes so they can click to try the same word combo as you.

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ericg
2 days ago
(+1)
Agreed, though I'd implement it as a daily challenge like you find in roguelikes. Hash the date, feed it in as a seed, put it behind a 'daily dordle' button, that should do it.

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ohnomisscat
3 days ago
great game, also great title for it.

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raisindebt
3 days ago
(+1)
Very fun, thank you! I just got 'biddy' and 'verso' so other players should take note that some answers are less-common words.

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Aniday
3 days ago
curious what word “ch_le” could have been if I used all my vowels and “y”…

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idbrii
3 days ago
Possibly chele: A pincer-like claw of a crustacean or arachnid.

Although I haven’t seen any answers that are so obscure.

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Aniday
3 days ago
(-1)
I considered this so I played again to check - not chele.

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NARFNra
2 days ago
(-2)
it changes the word if you replay

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ericg
3 days ago
(+1)
Is there no way to see what the word was if you lose? (on a desktop browser if it matters)

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FurbyFubar
2 days ago
Unintuitively: Press the share button to see what the words were.

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ericg
2 days ago
Ah, that'll work. Thanks.

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Szkszk
3 days ago
(-4)
Almost lost a round because the word was "guile" and I'd never heard this word. It ended up being the only possible answer that the game didn't reject with the remaining letters

Maybe you have something like this already, but I know Worlde has a shorter list of answer words which are more common than the whole list of 5 letter words it accepts as inputs. You might consider a system like that.

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ohnomisscat
3 days ago
(+6)(-5)
imagine loudly saying that because you've never heard the very common word "guile" that the game should be altered.

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Szkszk
3 days ago
(+2)
Sorry! English isn't my first language. But I've been playing Wordle and another Wordle Clone a lot recently, and this is the first time that I've seen an answer word that I had never heard of before

I did consider that maybe I just didn't know it, but I looked it up and Guile is indeed *not* in the list of possible answers on Wordle (its still an acceptable input)

Sorry my comment was so upsetting to you!

https://xkcd.com/1053/

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1p2r3
3 days ago
(+1)
People are being mean considering you aren't even a native speaker and even if you were the worst is that you don't know a word.

But, Guile is definitely in the Wordle answers list (take a look at the javascript), not just in the acceptable inputs list. It has not been an answer yet though.

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Szkszk
2 days ago
Interesting... I don't know how to look directly at JavaScript, I just have a CSV file someone posted on Medium who wrote a solving algorithm. I wonder why the discrepancy, but I'll take your word for it.

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Dr. Strangestyle
3 days ago
(-1)
Guile is a totally reasonable word to not know.

It's in the top 1% of looked-up words on the Merriam-Webster website so it seems it's a word a fair few people are familiar with but very few know the definition of.

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Szkszk
2 days ago
That's an interesting fact. Thanks for pointing it out!

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ohnomisscat
3 days ago
(+2)(-2)
It's fine not to know a word. I'm not giving you shit for not knowing a word.

I'm giving you shit for asking for an edit to a free game based on you not knowing the word that you just admitted wasn't your first language.  That'd be like me going to a (again, free) game in  made Mandarin and assuming my experience was the norm.

We just had the words "shire" and "proxy" the other day in Wordle. Those seem just as "common" to me as "guile". "Shire" I was surprised people didn't know because of Lord of the Rings but lots of people don't know it. If it was something like "eland" I'd be like "that's pretty obscure", but I feel like every fantasy book I've ever read uses the word "guile". And there was a Street Fighter character.

Insert xkcd comic about demanding something free cater to you specifically.

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Szkszk
2 days ago
(edited)
For one, I do feel like you were giving me shit by emphasizing in your first post with bold letters that it is a very common word? I felt like that was a bit aggressive and sarcastic tone to use, or that's how I interpreted it

But even that aside, is it necessary to be giving someone shit at all? Can you help me understand... Is there a word or phrase I used that was harsh or insulting?

To my understanding, "Maybe you have this feature already, but you might consider adding it if you don't" is not a demand, as much as the suggestion? Is it not "soft" enough of a phrase?

In a comment below, someone wrote "I think the gameplay might be improved if..." and the creator wrote back "...Thank you!", so I don't think he/she is disinterested in suggestions...

Also, if you scroll up, another person indicated the same sentiment as me, that they found answer words that are uncommon...

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Dr. Strangestyle
2 days ago
(+1)
You are attacking someone for suggesting a feature in the comments section of a free Wordle remix. They suggested a feature for a free Wordle remake which the dev can easily ignore.  They came across a word they didn't know—which according to Merriam-Webster, many people don't know—and suggested that every single five letter word shouldn't be in the rotation. I actually agree with you, I don't think guile is particularly uncommon but that doesn't make their suggestion offensive.

Again, this is a free Wordle remake. The comment wasn't negative, or an attack on the game or developer. It even started with "maybe you already have a feature like this" which reads to me like an admission that it's possible guile is simply beyond their vocabulary and the game doesn't need any modification.

Also, addressing your pointlessly condescending claim that guile appears in "every fantasy book I've ever read": guile doesn't appear a single time in the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy.

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FurbyFubar
2 days ago
(+2)
If you check the source code for the iframe with the game you will see that the game in fact uses two word lists, one for guesses and one for possible answers. Very likely this is the same list that Wordle uses, since making your own list would be much more work.

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eraaadicator
3 days ago
Ha.  Great, but need to be able to share a round without spoiling.

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eraaadicator
3 days ago
(+1)(-2)
Ah, and it's not a fixed word for everyone for the day.  Ya, kind of removes the social aspect that Wordle has going for it...

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Pete Thorne
3 days ago
insanely hard. Great!

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FurbyFubar
3 days ago
(edited)
EDIT: (This suggestion was implemented, so that's why I now look like I'm complaining about something that's not a thing below.)

When you've solved one word, shouldn't the letters in that word stop being marked as green on the keyboard to have it give the now relevant information?

The confusing half-gray half-white square would then also not be possible. What is  a gray/white letter trying to tell me? My best guess is: "You've tried this letter but you don't know if it's in one of your words. (Because you already know that word, and thus you know it's not in it.)"

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FurbyFubar
3 days ago
(edited)
(+1)
Cool idea!

I think gameplay would be improved if getting one of the words correct unlocked another guess. That way it's not possible to have only one guess left and know that you can't possibly win.

I think I found a small bug. I played a game and pressed share, then I played another game (until game over) and pressed share again, and it hasn't updated the text to share to my latest game? EDIT: Uh, I couldn't reproduce my own bug for a moment... So here's a better bug report! To reproduce this bug you have to edit what's in textarea after clicking share the first time. Say, add a space at the end or so. The share button doesn't set the textarea to show the text for the latest game if it's been edited. I feel like the expected behavior would be to always have the share button(s) change the textarea to be the data for the latest game.

As for extra features:

* A daily seed that everyone plays first that day feels like the obvious way to make people more likely to share their results. Just have daily games remove the guessed and correct words from the text to share, and possibly add "?day=234" to the end of the URL to let other people play that day's puzzle even if they are late, (though not have it count for streaks and such if you also add stats.)

* Hang on! Given that a daily seed would mean coding functionality to randomize the answers from a seed, this means that you could just have the link to non-daily puzzles end in something like "?s=df3Zi" if "df3Zi" was the seed that was randomized for the shared non-daily puzzle? Then just remove the guesses and correct answers from all share text, and have Dordle match Wordle closer in that regard?

* Save stats in a cookie. Add a button for "Show my stats" and show the stats at the end of each game. Add a button to share your stats (that's only visible while looking at your stats) You could have stats both for solving the full puzzle and for solving at least one word, as well as stats for "daily puzzles" and for "all puzzles", as well as current and longest streaks in all four combinations of of those things.

* Have some games be words that are 4+6 letters long, or even 3+7 letters long. Or go nuts and add 3+3+4. If you go for daily puzzles, have 4+6 show up every Sunday, and 3+7 every first day of a month, and 3+3+4 every Sunday that's also the first of the month? To drive engagement, (ÙGH! did I just write that phrase unironically?), don't let users play extra games of those game modes to make it so players have an extra reason  to want to check out/share the games on those days. Or let us play extra games on those modes, but only on those days? Of course, given JavaScript and this function likely thus relying on the user's system time, this *might* not be worth doing. It would amuse me though. And *if* people still care enough about a game with no global high score list to try to cheat at it, I feel like the game must be doing something right?

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zaratustra
3 days ago
(+4)
I'll keep the requests in mind, thank you! I can tell you that itch.io doesn't handle passing URL arguments to games, sadly.

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FurbyFubar
2 days ago
Oh, assumed this was JavaScript. I see PuzzleScript mentioned on another of your games, but had no real clue what that entailed. Reading up a bit on it now I see that it's not just (a subset of) JavaScript with a bunch of game specific libraries added, it's its own language that can be compiled down to HTML5. So it having greater limitations makes sense to me now.

But yeah, then instead of URL arguments, the option I'd suggest is having the shared text say "seed:DAY324" or "seed:df3Zi" and have the user fill it into the game themselves if they want to play the same game seed, and if they don't fill anything in (and their cookie says they haven't already played it), give them DAY[current-day-number] as their seed. Of course, that is assuming you feel the feature is worth your time.

To maximize change of going viral, try to keep the max length of the shared text to be a bit under what fits in a tweet. That way people can also fit in a short comment in their tweet. The use of an URL-shortener might help with that, and if you're not using arguments in the URL it's at least an option.

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dreamfeel
3 days ago
love this! I think this is my favourite variant

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3 days ago
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monkeybard
4 days ago
(+10)
Hey! This is really cool and a fun idea but the yellow and green chosen were even harder to tell apart for my colourblindness than a usual wordle. A colourblind mode would be awesome!

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zaratustra
3 days ago
(+1)
i've changed the green and yellow a bit, see if that helps!

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