[05:54:03] To General banter (18 and Up): there is a distinction at the point of consciousness, though, because the self is aware of itself (not if any other people are conscious though)
[05:54:18] To General banter (18 and Up): so we don't know if the pc experienced emotions via such a system
[05:54:28] To General banter (18 and Up): just like i cannot know if other people experience emotion
[05:54:43] To General banter (18 and Up): only make the assumption based on science and sheet
[05:55:05] To General banter (18 and Up): which tbh, makes the self experiencing emotion seem more unique and meaningful
[05:55:11] To General banter (18 and Up): but i still dgaf about it
[05:55:43] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Emotion is influenced by neurotransmitters though
[05:56:11] To General banter (18 and Up): sure
[05:56:26] To General banter (18 and Up): there's a difference between the word being used to explain psychological phenomena
[05:56:33] To General banter (18 and Up): and our personal experience of emotion
[05:56:55] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: I wiki'd to check
[05:57:12] To General banter (18 and Up): one of them is certain and the other theoretical
[05:57:30] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: That we were talking about the same emotion
[05:57:31] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: lol
[05:58:04] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: In psychology, philosophy, and their many subsets, emotion is the generic term for subjective, conscious experience that is characterized primarily by psychophysiological expressions, biological reactions, and mental states
[05:58:15] To General banter (18 and Up): haha
[05:58:39] To General banter (18 and Up): different aspects
[05:59:22] To General banter (18 and Up): damn, am i hungry
[05:59:29] To General banter (18 and Up): got a micro tutorial at 9
[05:59:52] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Is there anyway to come to terms with knowing you don't know
[05:59:58] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Rather
[06:00:09] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Accepting unknowns
[06:00:21] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Is that even possible without a point of reference
[06:00:29] To General banter (18 and Up): well
[06:00:38] To General banter (18 and Up): there is kinda
[06:00:43] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Like
[06:00:45] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Death
[06:00:47] To General banter (18 and Up): but firstly, you're certain in your uncertainty
[06:00:54] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Knowing the universe will continue for billions of years
[06:00:56] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: But I end
[06:00:58] To General banter (18 and Up): secondly, the vast majority of unknowns aren't genuinely unknown
[06:01:05] To General banter (18 and Up): it's more a case of defining something that doesn't exist
[06:01:23] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: It's the end of me
[06:01:25] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: I've never not been
[06:01:30] To General banter (18 and Up): it's the end of everything
[06:01:31] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: In my experience
[06:01:32] To General banter (18 and Up): yeah
[06:01:36] To General banter (18 and Up): you've never not been
[06:01:40] To General banter (18 and Up): and you never won't be
[06:01:48] To General banter (18 and Up): you exist, and that's it
[06:01:54] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Yeah
[06:01:55] To General banter (18 and Up): there isn't a before or after
[06:02:04] To General banter (18 and Up): the universe is a conceptual construct we make
[06:02:04] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: I know there is though
[06:02:09] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: There was and will be
[06:02:13] To General banter (18 and Up): nope
[06:02:14] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: I won't experience it
[06:02:22] To General banter (18 and Up): there isn't that though
[06:02:41] To General banter (18 and Up): we exist in such a way that we are experiencing something
[06:03:00] To General banter (18 and Up): something which we cannot, by necessity, ever genuinely understand
[06:03:07] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Yeah
[06:03:33] To General banter (18 and Up): and that is necessarily only existing (to our knowledge) for the person existing in it
[06:04:31] To General banter (18 and Up): ideas like the universe existing before and after we did are based on big theoretical frameworks
[06:04:36] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: There's something extremely unsettling about it
[06:04:45] To General banter (18 and Up): emotionally i guess
[06:04:49] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Yeah
[06:05:18] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Definitely an emotional response
[06:05:24] To General banter (18 and Up): fuck
[06:05:25] To General banter (18 and Up): erm
[06:05:30] To General banter (18 and Up): ya got me
[06:05:55] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: lol
[06:06:17] To General banter (18 and Up): an experience that, whilst explainable through 'objective' medium, is distinguishable by the self experiencing it as such
[06:06:19] (Channel) Lulz69: learning more about the music culture by rodney then i did in school :/
[06:07:08] To General banter (18 and Up): when you reach a point like explaining what emotion genuinely is, you shouldn't be able to define it
[06:07:28] To General banter (18 and Up): ultimately all definitions are based on some sort of experience
[06:07:50] To General banter (18 and Up): like how you can click the top link of any article in wikipedia and reach philosophy, because that's the source of all knowledge
[06:08:01] Ormaga is now unmuted.
[06:08:10] To General banter (18 and Up): emotion is one of those raw experiences which cannot have a higher order explanation
[06:08:11] To General banter (18 and Up): it just is
[06:08:24] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Gimme heroin
[06:08:27] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Night
[06:08:29] Ormaga disconnected.
[06:08:36] To General banter (18 and Up): you can describe what it's part of (being in the world)
[06:09:01] To General banter (18 and Up): it has the same sort of quality as all other experiences of being in the world, it's consciously experienced
[06:09:05] To General banter (18 and Up): but you can't go further than that
[06:09:16] To General banter (18 and Up): what you can do instead
[06:09:37] To General banter (18 and Up): is determine the structure with which you do those things, like thinking, observing, conceiving
[06:09:41] To General banter (18 and Up): acts of consciousness
[06:09:55] To General banter (18 and Up): and use that structure to determine what is and isn't true
[06:10:06] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: hmm
[06:10:15] To General banter (18 and Up): like, for example, our thoughts are structured such that we understand things logically
[06:10:58] (Channel) Lulz69: this is some good psychology stuff rodney
[06:11:00] To General banter (18 and Up): everything we've ever thought has been interpreted through this sort of definite consistent thing
[06:11:09] To General banter (18 and Up): we call that consistency logic
[06:11:47] To General banter (18 and Up): rather than things being 'logically consistent', it's the other way round, we have logic which is described from having consistency in individual thoughts
[06:12:30] To General banter (18 and Up): so when you hear about, say, radioactivity
[06:12:50] To General banter (18 and Up): which describes a necessary randomness in decay in order to be true
[06:13:48] To General banter (18 and Up): you can conclude that it's not possible for the theory to be a genuine truth about the universe, because if it was you would have need to have a repeatably consistent scenario involving radioactive decay, which isn't possible via the theory
[06:13:53] To General banter (18 and Up): etc.
[06:14:03] To General banter (18 and Up): same for quantum mechanics
[06:14:09] To General banter (18 and Up): or anything that implies non-determinism
[06:14:29] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Interesting
[06:15:03] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Interesting stuff
[06:15:04] To General banter (18 and Up): ultimately you can say it about any scientific theory
[06:15:40] To General banter (18 and Up): because induction requires it to be possible to have inconsistent things happening observed from within the theory
[06:16:05] To General banter (18 and Up): so if you think about it from a super philosophical, introspective position, the universe as described can't actually be true
[06:16:09] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Yeah
[06:16:25] To General banter (18 and Up): which means ideas like biological death, the universe existing before and after us etc.
[06:16:34] To General banter (18 and Up): aren't really existentially meaningful questions
[06:16:41] To General banter (18 and Up): they're all parts of the big theoretical frame
[06:16:52] To General banter (18 and Up): which we use to go about our daily business
[06:16:57] To General banter (18 and Up): which is itself theoretical
[06:16:59] To General banter (18 and Up): haha
[06:17:26] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: I don't want to understand how my brain works anymore
[06:17:29] To General banter (18 and Up): knowing all this stuff is so practically useless
[06:17:30] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Logic is dumb
[06:17:31] To General banter (18 and Up): but so interesting
[06:17:31] To General banter (18 and Up): haha
[06:17:41] To General banter (18 and Up): i love it
[06:17:53] To General banter (18 and Up): emotionally and non-emotionally :D
[06:17:58] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: lol
[06:18:23] To General banter (18 and Up): epistemic agency innit
[06:18:47] To General banter (18 and Up): existing to know shit
[06:19:56] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: So
[06:20:02] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Why do we accept chance so readily
[06:20:26] To General banter (18 and Up): predictability and complexity i think
[06:20:43] To General banter (18 and Up): when something happens by chance
[06:21:03] To General banter (18 and Up): we know there must be a logical explanation/way of predicting it
[06:21:12] To General banter (18 and Up): we don't need to know what that is to recognise there must be one
[06:21:15] Lulz69 disconnected.
[06:21:31] To General banter (18 and Up): there are plenty of unexplained phenomena, terrestrial or extraterrestrial
[06:21:53] To General banter (18 and Up): which we haven't learned to predict/produce a model for understanding
[06:22:19] To General banter (18 and Up): and for the things we do understand that go awry, we don't have the brainpower to figure the shit out as it happens
[06:22:54] To General banter (18 and Up): but ultimately there's a recognition that it must be predictable/logical
[06:24:14] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Whether or not it is
[06:24:34] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: We just assume there's a logical reasoning
[06:24:43] To General banter (18 and Up): it's not an assumption
[06:24:44] To General banter (18 and Up): because
[06:24:52] To General banter (18 and Up): if you observe anything
[06:25:14] To General banter (18 and Up): it has to be done according to the structure with which you exist in the world
[06:25:28] To General banter (18 and Up): which is a priori logically consistent
[06:25:33] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Yeah
[06:25:46] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: So it's an assumption
[06:25:47] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: ?
[06:25:56] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Based on everything you've observed/your experience
[06:26:05] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: You take it for granted that there must be logic
[06:26:42] To General banter (18 and Up): if it's based on everything, rather than most things, then it isn't an assumption
[06:27:09] To General banter (18 and Up): assumption infers the ability to know something else other than which the assumption is based
[06:27:23] To General banter (18 and Up): if you see 8 black ducks, assume ducks are black
[06:27:36] To General banter (18 and Up): whereas if the entire universe is 8 black ducks, ducks really are black
[06:28:02] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Well, you're aware of the passage of time
[06:28:10] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: It's an assumption in that moment
[06:28:13] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: Based on previous expierence
[06:28:43] To General banter (18 and Up): time is assumptive in theory
[06:29:03] To General banter (18 and Up): we don't really have a proper understanding of time outside of physics
[06:29:46] To General banter (18 and Up): it's pretty goddamn weird, it has different rates depending on one's state of mind etc.
[06:30:00] To General banter (18 and Up): and you can't attribute it to your thoughts
[06:30:36] To General banter (18 and Up): i think time is just a really badly defined term for something we don't yet understand that we use to cover a lot of things
[06:31:20] To General banter (18 and Up): but we can distinguish things from it, so it can't be one of those self-fulfilling truths like logical consistency is
[06:31:25] Recaff entered channel.
[06:31:32] To General banter (18 and Up): hi recaff
[06:31:51] To General banter (18 and Up): we're both tripping balls on philosophy
[06:31:59] (Channel) sp1ky@lagtop: I don't even want to know how my brain works